Best classic arcade games never released on home systems

[Buyatari]

If I were to build an arcade I'd want just the games that you can't play on home console systems. Games like Tron and Satan's Hollow. What are some other I might never have played. Looking for the best games never available at home.

[Chainclaw]

Tron got a Live Arcade release, I believe.

Satan's Hollow is in Midway's Arcade Treasures Volume 1.

A few arcade games I want that never had home releases are:
Capcom's Alien Versus Predator
Simpsons
X-Men

[8-bitNesMan]

Isn't the Simpsons arcade game a bonus unlockable on The Simpsons game on X360 and PS3?

[Arcade Antics]

Plus the OP asked for "best" and "classic," the Simpsons is neither. ;)

[DKTheArcadeRat]

C.O.W. Boys of Moo Mesa

[PingvinBlueJeans]

Major Havoc (http://www.klov.com/game_detail.php?letter=&game_id=8601) and Spider-Man (http://www.klov.com/game_detail.php?game_id=9717) come to mind.

There are several early Nintendo titles (Radar Scope, Arm Wrestling) and many early Sega titles (Eliminator, Pulsar, etc.) that never made it past the arcades.



Satan's Hollow is in Midway's Arcade Treasures Volume 1.

Also released on the Commodore 64 (although technically not a 'console' release, I suppose).


Plus the OP asked for "best" and "classic," the Simpsons is neither. ;)
Agreed...I could never understand the enduring popularity of this game. It's just a quarter-munching button-masher...and it goes on forever. To each his own...

[Chainclaw]

Not to take this thread on too far of a tangent, but Simpson's gameplay is adequate, the source material is very popular, and it supports four players at once.

What do you guys define as "classic" games? Simpson's is nearly 20 years old. I figured anything DDR and onwards is not classic.

[cyberfluxor]

I remember every ice rank, bowling alley, and skating rank in the early 90's having a Simpson's arcade game. Classic, yes but not by the whole retro late 70's to mid 80's era. Its presentation just isn't the same as those earlier games, though it is fun to play.

Thinking about it, every arcade machine that comes to mind has some release on console or home computer at some point. They even have a plug-n-play Golden Tee (http://www.amazon.com/Radica-I6001-PlayTV-Golden-Golf/dp/B000EYF7YQ) game in addition to PC ports.

[Kid Ice]

Not to take this thread on too far of a tangent, but Simpson's gameplay is adequate, the source material is very popular, and it supports four players at once.

What do you guys define as "classic" games? Simpson's is nearly 20 years old. I figured anything DDR and onwards is not classic.

I wouldn't call any game after the crash a "classic".

[Chainclaw]

I wouldn't call any game after the crash a "classic".

If you go by these boards, any arcade machine before the Playstation 2 was released is classic.

[jfroco]

Capcom's AVP is my natural choice.

I would add the Taito's Super Speed Race V (1978) or Super Speed Race GP V (1980) but as far as I know they cannot be emulated yet.

[Buyatari]

I liked Mad Planets. I don't think that was ever released because it had different controls.

Few others I am not sure about.

Death Race?
Mystic Marathon?
Turkey Shoot?

Now that I think of it was the 1st arcade game ever computer space ever released on the home systems?

[Kid Ice]

If you go by these boards, any arcade machine before the Playstation 2 was released is classic.

Joe's well advertised philosophy is it doesn't have to be old to be classic. By those standards, one could reasonably call Resident Evil 4 or the first Guitar Hero a classic. Or going by arcade games, let's say Crazy Taxi and Top Skater (that's right, I can't even NAME an arcade game less than 10 years old).

In my eyes, there was a time when video games and arcade games were officially over. There was a point when I wondered if there would *ever* be another dedicated home video game console. If I had to put a year on it, I'd say 1985. Really 83 and 84 were kind of lean years, but 85 was the year you could show up in an arcade and chase crickets around.

Of course soon Nintendo and Mario would bring consoles back, but I don't feel arcades ever truly recovered. You basically had one huge game a year (the Gauntlets, Double Dragons, and Street Fighter IIs of the world) for like 20 years.

I'm looking at a book on my shelf called "Supercade: a visual history of the videogame age 1971-1984". 1971-1984 to me is classic.

To the OP: I don't recall a home version of the brilliant Pac-clone "Thief". Juno First was never seen on a console IIRC (there was a bad C64 version). And if you ask me we never got a proper Berzerk.

[Arcade Antics]

If you go by these boards, any arcade machine before the Playstation 2 was released is classic.

That's not entirely accurate. The full phrasing used is "it doesn't have to be old to be classic."

Every square is a rectangle, but every rectangle is not a square.

Anyway, the important thing here really is the context of the OP's post. I'd have to go with Kid Ice on the timeframe cited, as that really is the classic time period for arcade gaming, and it addresses the OP's context. Exploration and creativity were at a fully saturated high point - a point that can never be equalled because 99% of video gaming ground has been covered by now. There may occasionally be new games that tread on fresh ground, but they'll be few and far between, instead of two dozen games or more per month.

And finally, I'll second Mad Planets and add Krull to the list. :)

[Buyatari]

That's not entirely accurate. The full phrasing used is "it doesn't have to be old to be classic."

Every square is a rectangle, but every rectangle is not a square.

Anyway, the important thing here really is the context of the OP's post. I'd have to go with Kid Ice on the timeframe cited, as that really is the classic time period for arcade gaming, and it addresses the OP's context. Exploration and creativity were at a fully saturated high point - a point that can never be equalled because 99% of video gaming ground has been covered by now. There may occasionally be new games that tread on fresh ground, but they'll be few and far between, instead of two dozen games or more per month.

And finally, I'll second Mad Planets and add Krull to the list. :)

Well I happen to have a Krull machine already but it was released on the 2600.

[Kid Ice]

There's a very good version of Mad Planets on the C64 called "Crazy Comets".

[Kid Ice]

And if you ask me we never got a proper Berzerk.

What was I thinking? The VCS got a great version of Berzerk. But I can't think of a compilation with an arcade perfect version.

[98PaceCar]

If I were to build an arcade I'd want just the games that you can't play on home console systems. Games like Tron and Satan's Hollow. What are some other I might never have played. Looking for the best games never available at home.

Based on your specific criteria, I'd say Disks of Tron, preferably the environmental version.

What I did when I was building my arcade is specifically went after machines that had controls that were unique enough that you couldn't emulate them well. That got me a set of games that I actually spend time playing.

That said, I do have the mandatory Pac and DK cabs. Have to keep the spousal acceptance factor high!

[Arcade Antics]

Well I happen to have a Krull machine already but it was released on the 2600.

No it wasn't. :)

True there's a Krull game for the 2600, but it's an entirely different game from the Gottlieb coin-op. It was never intended to be an arcade port, just a different use of the movie license.

[Nikademus1969]

Was Zookeeper ever released?

[Kid Ice]

Was Zookeeper ever released?

Yeah, it's on one of the Taito collections for PS2.

Speaking of home games that are different from arcade games, I just learned *today* that Journey Escape is not the same game as the Journey arcade game.

[emceelokey]

[QUOTE=PingvinBlueJeans;1494652]Major Havoc (http://www.klov.com/game_detail.php?letter=&game_id=8601) and Spider-Man (http://www.klov.com/game_detail.php?game_id=9717) come to mind.

QUOTE]

Yes. That Goddamn SEGA Spider-Man game. Not only was that good and it never got released on consoles, and it was fairly hard for me to find in arcades and I was never able to find it on emulator. Such a great game

[NoahsMyBro]

Hmm - Every classic arcade game I can think of that I enjoyed was released on consoles. Whether or not the release was good enough, in my opinion, is debatable, but the original question specifically asked for titles that were never released in a console version.

The less common arcade games that I liked a lot might be fairly uncommon in home versions, but exist -
Star Castle, Marble Madness & Pleiades come to mind.

I definitely second the mention of the environmental Discs of Tron above. I loved that game, and spent a huge amount of time during my sophomore or junior year of high school playing that game with a friend of mine, just about every morning before class and during lunch most days. I'd forgotten aboout that game altogether.

As for Satan's Hollow, I don't recall who, but I think it was an AA regular, released a bunch of repro cartridges for the 5200. These were games that were either unreleased prototypes, or maybe conversions from 8-bit releases. Among the titles was a Satan's Hollow that plays, looks, and sounds great, but unfortunately crashes frequently. I've got it, and until it crashes it's a blast to play.

[DreamTR]

I don't understand how people can even say that "anything" released "after the crash" (1983) is not classic. Are you freaking kidding me? Super Mario Bros is not classic? I'm sorry, I respect Atari/Colecovision/AStrocade/INtellivision/insert other systems here, but that's plain naive. Eventually it's going to happen. You think Guns N Roses from 1986-87 just started playing on the "classic" rock stations lately for no reason? They will become classic. They will become vintage. It's a matter of time. The better way is to filter it like comic book do. The "Golden" Age of Video Gaming, the "Silver" age, stuff like that.

Simpsons was also released on PC, but it's hard to imagine it as a stand alone compilation game because it's just not available and would have to be combined with some crazy licensing agreement....

I wish Mikie would have come out on console. I love that game. There's a LOT of Konami stuff not released on console. Missing in Action? Boot Camp?

[slapdash]

I kind of dug Beezer, and was bummed when the Intellivision version wasn't released, but I'm not sure it was actually a "classic"/great game.

[Kid Ice]

I don't understand how people can even say that "anything" released "after the crash" (1983) is not classic. Are you freaking kidding me? Super Mario Bros is not classic?

IMO it's not classic in the way that Space Invaders and Pac Man are.


I'm sorry, I respect Atari/Colecovision/AStrocade/INtellivision/insert other systems here, but that's plain naive. Eventually it's going to happen.

Eventually what's going to happen? If some people don't consider a console that's 20 years old a classic, you think another 20 years is going to make a difference?


You think Guns N Roses from 1986-87 just started playing on the "classic" rock stations lately for no reason? They will become classic. They will become vintage. It's a matter of time.

But not in the same way as The Beatles or Elvis or other bands and artists that were there at the beginning of rock and roll.



The better way is to filter it like comic book do. The "Golden" Age of Video Gaming, the "Silver" age, stuff like that.

So would that break down something like this?

Golden Age = VCS, O2, Intellivsion etc

Silver Age = NES, SMS, etc

Bronze Age = Genesis, SNES, etc

Where do we go from there? When the PSX and Saturn are 20-30 years old, do we come up with another precious metal since those systems will be considered "classic"? When does it end?

If we are going to use some kind of time stamp, does that mean the CD-I, Pippin, and FM Towns Marty become "classic" simply because time has passed?

[Arcade Antics]

I wish Mikie would have come out on console. I love that game. There's a LOT of Konami stuff not released on console. Missing in Action? Boot Camp?

Mikie kicks ass, pun intended. Pretty sure Boot Camp came out for the C64, granted, it's not a console.


The less common arcade games that I liked a lot might be fairly uncommon in home versions, but exist -
Star Castle, Marble Madness & Pleiades come to mind.
Marble Madness has had a ton of home console releases: NES, Game Gear, Genesis, SMS, GB, GBC, GBA... and it also came out on all the home computers of the day too.

[DreamTR]

IMO it's not classic in the way that Space Invaders and Pac Man are.



Eventually what's going to happen? If some people don't consider a console that's 20 years old a classic, you think another 20 years is going to make a difference?



But not in the same way as The Beatles or Elvis or other bands and artists that were there at the beginning of rock and roll.

Kid Ice: The Famicom (NES) came out in Japan in 1983, so if you are putting Intellivision in there, NES definitely needs to be there.



So would that break down something like this?

Golden Age = VCS, O2, Intellivsion etc

Silver Age = NES, SMS, etc

Bronze Age = Genesis, SNES, etc

Where do we go from there? When the PSX and Saturn are 20-30 years old, do we come up with another precious metal since those systems will be considered "classic"? When does it end?

If we are going to use some kind of time stamp, does that mean the CD-I, Pippin, and FM Towns Marty become "classic" simply because time has passed?

Kid Ice: The Famicom (NES) came out in Japan in 1983, so if you are putting Intellivision in there, NES definitely needs to be there.

And you know it's not the same thing. To call the NES "silver age" when IT is the very reason video games are what they are today is ridiculous. It came out around the same time as Coleco/Intellivision, but in Japan. It "saved" the video game market. As much as I respect the previous systems, Nintendo actually put arcade games on a home console (graphically anything from the VS. Unisystem series)

[Kid Ice]

Kid Ice: The Famicom (NES) came out in Japan in 1983, so if you are putting Intellivision in there, NES definitely needs to be there.

The Intellivision came out in the U.S. in 1979. The NES came out in the U.S. in, what, 85 86? They're not even in the same generation of consoles.



And you know it's not the same thing. To call the NES "silver age" when IT is the very reason video games are what they are today is ridiculous. It came out around the same time as Coleco/Intellivision, but in Japan. It "saved" the video game market. As much as I respect the previous systems, Nintendo actually put arcade games on a home console (graphically anything from the VS. Unisystem series)

I agree the NES saved the video game market...after that first generation of "classic" consoles was finished.

If you want to go by Japan/Famicom, you could very well say it was the first classic console...in Japan.

[Chainclaw]

I don't know how you guys can have any sort of argument about what is classic or not here. The official DP definition is right there on the forum listing, and it is "Today, classic means 'before PlayStation 2'"

[DreamTR]

Kid ICe: Famicom architecture is 1983. It came out in 1983. Therefore it is classic. At this rate, the 5200 should not be classic. If the NES took 2 years to get to the USA, so be it, it still came out in 1983. Heck, the Colecovision came out in 1982.

[Kid Ice]

I don't know how you guys can have any sort of argument about what is classic or not here. The official DP definition is right there on the forum listing, and it is "Today, classic means 'before PlayStation 2'"

You're right. I was just giving my personal opinion.

It's not relevant to Adam's question anyway.

[Vectorman0]

I don't know how you guys can have any sort of argument about what is classic or not here. The official DP definition is right there on the forum listing, and it is "Today, classic means 'before PlayStation 2'"
That is just to clearly differentiate between what topics get posted in Modern gaming, or Classic Gaming forums.

The "Classic Gaming" forum used to be for every single game of every single era, however it became too crowded. It was decided to split the modern gaming off into its own forum.

If you look at the description for the Modern Gaming forum, you will see "As we always say: it doesn't have to be OLD to be CLASSIC."

[Aussie2B]

I think the whole "nothing after the crash is 'classic'" argument only exists because gamers that are old enough that they were children/teenagers prior to the crash are highly nostalgic about the games they grew up with, so they look at everything that came later with some level of disdain. And the easiest way to reflect that is by denying everything else the term "classic", as if they're a lesser form of gaming.

Really, I think it's all silly. If this was still the 80s or even possibly the 90s, there might be some argument there, but when we're talking games that are all 25+ years old, is a difference of maybe 5 years at the most really night and day? Is a 1982 launch Colecovision game that different from a 1983 launch Famicom game? One is "classic" and the other isn't?

It's like looking at two elderly men, one 75 and the other 70, and saying "Man, that guy is old!" about the 75-year-old and "He's practically a baby!" about the 70-year-old.

[Kid Ice]

I think the whole "nothing after the crash is 'classic'" argument only exists because gamers that are old enough that they were children/teenagers prior to the crash are highly nostalgic about the games they grew up with, so they look at everything that came later with some level of disdain.

I don't look at anything with disdain. I just said the NES is responsible for the comeback of gaming. My biggest collection is for the 3DO. My favorite system is the Playstation. I own all 3 current consoles and a DS and a PSP.


And the easiest way to reflect that is by denying everything else the term "classic", as if they're a lesser form of gaming.

Don't we have to draw the line somewhere? Or is every single game ever made going to become a classic, after say, 20 years? I just said the Playstation is my all time favorite system. Having said that, in my eyes, it will never be a classic system. It's not about greater and lesser, it's about classic or not classic.


Really, I think it's all silly. If this was still the 80s or even possibly the 90s, there might be some argument there, but when we're talking games that are all 25+ years old, is a difference of maybe 5 years at the most really night and day?

Yes it is, because there was a clearly defined period of time in the U.S. when there was no video gaming, as it had been dismissed as a fad. Why should it matter to me what was going on in Japan?


Is a 1982 launch Colecovision game that different from a 1983 launch Famicom game? One is "classic" and the other isn't?

Now who's being silly? Who in 1983 was playing a Famicom game in this country?


It's like looking at two elderly men, one 75 and the other 70, and saying "Man, that guy is old!" about the 75-year-old and "He's practically a baby!" about the 70-year-old.

Come up with all the analogies about old men and Guns n Roses you want. Look at any credible piece of literature about the history of gaming. You'll find that the NES is separated into a different era than the 2600, Intellivision, Colecovision, etc. Now if you feel the NES is a classic console, that's absolutely fine with me....although I disagree, I'm probably in the minority. But don't try this "the Famicom was released in Japan in 1983 so it's a contemporary of the Colecovision". It doesn't make sense, it has nothing or little to do with the U.S. gaming scene, and it's not even particularly relevant to this argument.

[NoahsMyBro]

I've got to say that I agree with Kid Ice in this discussion. I'll try to explain why I feel the same way, and maybe it will illuminate things.

Having grown up in the '70s and '80s, I was there when videogames really got their start. I played Pong & Breakout in movie theatre lobbies, Death Race 2000 was in a hometown pizza parlor, and once I played Air Sea Battle on a friend's VCS, there was no force on earth that would prevent me eventually owning a VCS.

Kids of my generation endlessly debated whether the VCS or the Intellivision was the better system, and we all felt a little bit sorry for the kid with the Odyssey2.

Videogames changed between the Colecovision/5200 and the NES/SMS. With the emergence of the NES/SMS and later games, the games didn't look the same, play the same, or feel the same.

There is a definite break in style. To me, that is why the earlier systems 'feel' classic, and everything that comes afterward doesn't.

This ISN'T a qualitative judgement, and it cannot be measured. It's simply a feeling. The games from the era I'm considering classic usually don't have multiple screens. There are very minimal stories - usually the only story is on the cabinet facade, control panel, or bezel, or an intro screen before the game begins. The primary objective is to score as high as possible, and live as long as possible before losing all of your lives. Many of the games, if not most, have comparatively small player characters, and the background is usually solid black. Hand-eye coordination is paramount.

'Continues' spoil the challenge. There aren't save locations. Usually there isn't a Boss to take on. There is rarely any sort of plot to work through. These games don't really have an ending, and you never really win.

After the NES hit the scene, things changed. There were more involved and relevant storylines, background graphics came into their own, you could continue so you didn't lose your progress, and you could actually beat a game, eventually seeing an ending. It seems to me that hand-eye coordination mattered less (excepting 'shmups', and btw I hate that word!). Players didn't really pay much attention to score, if the game even tracked score.

So, at least to me, there is a definite difference between what I, and I'm guessing Kid Ice, consider a 'classic', and what I would consider post-classic. It isn't a function of age or quality. I like the Dreamcast as much as I like the Atari 5200, but I wouldn't call the DC a classic. (Those are my 2 favorite systems.)

[Buyatari]

My buddy had a game where you ride on a train.

At the start you can pick your weapon. whip,punch or gun. You got the most points per kill with gun. When you punched someone they would slide back and anyone hit by then also died. Anyone know the name?

[CosmicMonkey]

Aliens vs Predator - CPS2
Progear no Arashi - CPS2
Scud Race - Model 3

[DreamTR]

BuyAtari: that almost sounds like Renegade!

NoahsmyBro: You said it. You "grew up in the 70s", and that was your basis for the argument. I'm 33 years old. I'm an arcade rat, I was playing Pac-Man back when I was 4 years old and continually went to arcades obsessively in the 80s. What were the most incredible looking games at the time? Nintendo games. VS Unisystem games were amazing to me, and when were those released? About 1983-84. These were already out on Famicom in Japan, but for some reason we can consider Colecovision a classic, the Atari 5200 a classic, and to almost everyone else, the 7800 probably falls under that as well, but the NES? Oh no. It's "neo" classic. 23 years in the US and 26 years worldwide and it's a NEO CLASSIC? That's just being silly not grouping them together. Most of the Atari heads just don't like Nintendo because they did not grow up with it. I grew up with all of this stuff, and my first system was an Astrocade. I chose NOT to get a 2600 because after playing it at my cousin's house, nothing stood up to the arcade. Colecovision was fun, but even then.....I just don't see the difference in 3 years of a system being RELEASED in the USA, and less than a year when a system is released worldwide turns it into a Neo Classic system.

[boatofcar]

What's classic or not is about as pointless an argument as defining what punk is--it's entirely subjective. Of course people who grew up in the early 80's aren't going to look a newer systems as classics, any more than people who grew up in the 50's look at films made in the 70's and 80's as classics.

Now, if you want to classify "classic" games as games before the crash, that's no different than calling them "golden age." And as for people running out of metallic names, comics have been around a heck of a lot longer than video games, but they use that classification quite well.

[Kid Ice]

My buddy had a game where you ride on a train.

At the start you can pick your weapon. whip,punch or gun. You got the most points per kill with gun. When you punched someone they would slide back and anyone hit by then also died. Anyone know the name?

Sounds like Express Raider:

http://www.klov.com/game_detail.php?game_id=7735

[FOnewearl]

I know it goes against what the OP is considering to be "classic" but I'm throwing out a few games I enjoyed playing way back when that AFAIK never came out on a home console even in some form on a "retro" collection. I might be able to think of a few others if I thought about it but these are a few games not mentioned yet here that come to mind right away that I always wanted to see released on a home console, Black Tiger could be included on this list if not for being included on a few of the Capcom collections.

Rail Chase (adding this although it realisticly couldn't be 100% recreated on a home console)
Wrestlefest
Golden Axe: The Revenge of Death Adder
Solar Warrior - This one came out in '86 so it's close to the era that the OP was looking for :) Mix between run and gun & shoot 'em up for anyone who's never played it before.

[kingpong]

I've always been of the pre-crash = classic, post-crash = something else mindset. While things never completely stopped, for all practical purposes there was a clear break in the videogame industry. That's a perfect delineation for "classic".

Anybody who isn't an idiot knows that that the Famicom came out in 1983, but typically only big Nintendo fans try to argue that it should be considered a pre-crash/classic system. One has to remember that the industry looked a lot different in those days. While Japanese games were a big part of the arcade scene, the console scene was virtually non-existant. Sure Atari released the 2600 and later tried the repackaging as the 2800 and Bandai released the Intellivision, but the home systems that were dominant in the rest of the world didn't do squat in Japan (funny how we still see symptoms of this today). You can't build a timeline that combines the Japanese home market and that of the rest of the world because the lines didn't intersect until after the crash. The Famicom might have been released in Japan in 1983, but it didn't impact the worldwide video game scene until 1986 - despite being released in the US in 1985, it was limited and it didn't make a splash until a year later.

Before the crash the industry was dominated by the US. After the crash Japan would dominate. Stuff from the US dominated era is classic, things from the Japan era and today's mixed yet separate US/Japan era are something else (I don't have a good name for it - I kind of see everything post-crash as one continuous thing anyways as there's never been a major paradigm shift, so it is all modern stuff).

Perhaps the use of "classic" was a poor choice back when we started using it in the early 90s. But look at any other use of classic to describe something - it almost always refers to something of a certain time period or style, so something does not become classic with age. Every time someone tries to expand classic through the passage of time it raises a stink, no matter if it is classic video games, classic rock, or classic cars. When the use of "classic" in conjunction with games came into vogue it was used to distinguish the post-crash, Japan centric industry from the pre-crash, US dominated video game world. Despite being available in Japan at the time, nobody considered the Famicom a part of that world.

Since we've had the tired Famicom is classic argument brought up, anyone want to bring up the equally incorrect Euro centric argument that there was no crash, that people just moved to gaming on computers instead of consoles? I always get a kick out of how people in the US started making that argument after the WWW took off and they saw how good the stuff in Europe was in the mid to late 80s.

[DreamTR]

kingpong: I'm talking strictly dates here. "Crash" or no crash regardless, the TECHNOLOGY is what I am referring to. It makes no sense to call the Colecovision a classic when the NES technology upon worldwide release was less than a year later, and call that a "neo" classic.

I was fully aware of arcades/consoles since I was going to the arcade 7 days a week back in the mid 80s, and Zody's (a crappy department store), had a Family arcade next to it, and every single grocery store/casino/pizza parlor within a 2 miles radius of me (and there were numerous) had arcade machines.

This "crash" is just really referring to the ET Atari 2600 game, and a lot of companies were dumping "some" games, but it wasn't as crazy as you think. People still carried games normally (in my area) and not everything was dumped. The 2600 was reboxed later on for $49.99 in that red box in the mid to late 80s right around the time the NES was in full distribution, but those 2.5 years of supposed crash might have affected retail, but arcade still remained decent. Sure, it fell off slightly, but there was an even BIGGER crash for arcades in the 90s and for some reason video games as a whole are only referred to market crashes for console.

The point is, the NES technology was already in arcades. The system came out in Japan. I don't care if it came out in Antarctica, most of the VS arcade games came to the NES later, so to determine that the technology does not fit in to the same category because of ET failing to sell is ridiculous.

I was there through this whole thing, and I have to say not everyone thought video games were a "fad" still from retail. Arcades were still around, people were still releasing games, console stuff was just stagnant for a bit, but that does not denote that the technology was not classic by any means, and I was around through this whole mess....I know our department stores sure didn't have a blowout of all Atari games for $1 in 1984-85....

[Sanriostar]

Regarding DreamTR's post:

Its a question of naming and Capitalization, methinks.

"Classic" is pre-crash.
"classic" is just a good game no matter when it came out.
so games can be "Classic" and "classic" like Robotron or Tempest
"Classic" but not "classic' like Mythicon 2600 carts
or "classic' but not "Classic" like Star Control 2, Halo, ect.

We've all been using this method, and I think it's just stuck on us. The core of us are refugees from rec.games.video.classic; old habits, hard to break, ect.

EDIT: this was posted before I noticed there was a 2nd page, and the corresponding dialog.

[jcalder8]

Buyatari: What did you mean by "classic"? I thought of classic in terms of how good it is not in terms of era.

[Buyatari]

Buyatari: What did you mean by "classic"? I thought of classic in terms of how good it is not in terms of era.

What did I mean by "classic" well isn't it obvious.

lol

::Grabs the popcorn and enjoys the rest of this::

Anyway the game was called Iron Horse and put out by Konami.

[jb143]

Buyatari: What did you mean by "classic"? I thought of classic in terms of how good it is not in terms of era.

Is a Gremlin or a Pento considered a classic car?
Is Nirvana considered classic rock?

The term classic applies to both date and quality/style.

[Kid Ice]

This "crash" is just really referring to the ET Atari 2600 game, and a lot of companies were dumping "some" games, but it wasn't as crazy as you think.

Now we got the crash in quotes, ehh?

The industry was in such poor shape that Nintendo had to release the NES with A ROBOT so people would not notice it was a video game console.

You're not talking dates. But we got two posts of "THE NES CAME OUT IN 83 IN JAPAN!"

And Guns n Roses, etc, okay, okay, okay.

I still think the argument for the NES as a classic is reasonable. Just not reasonable in the manner that YOU are presenting it.

[Game Freak]

i want to say Tapper, i dnot have it for console, so idk. I also dont have Carnival...

oh and Zoo Keeper! (no, the DS one is completely different)

[DreamTR]

Now we got the crash in quotes, ehh?

The industry was in such poor shape that Nintendo had to release the NES with A ROBOT so people would not notice it was a video game console.

You're not talking dates. But we got two posts of "THE NES CAME OUT IN 83 IN JAPAN!"

And Guns n Roses, etc, okay, okay, okay.

I still think the argument for the NES as a classic is reasonable. Just not reasonable in the manner that YOU are presenting it.


It's not like that Robot was not released in Japan earlier. Console crash did not take as much of an effect on the arcade stuff since those were still plentiful everywhere. I'm just trying to get the date thing through. People at the CGE for years would never consider the NES a "classic", and it bothered me to no end.

[Kid Ice]

People at the CGE for years would never consider the NES a "classic", and it bothered me to no end.

Probably just as many times I've heard that gaming didn't "really" start until the NES, and those old primitive systems aren't even worthy of consideration as really being video games.

[kingpong]

I was fully aware of arcades/consoles since I was going to the arcade 7 days a week back in the mid 80s, and Zody's (a crappy department store), had a Family arcade next to it, and every single grocery store/casino/pizza parlor within a 2 miles radius of me (and there were numerous) had arcade machines.

This "crash" is just really referring to the ET Atari 2600 game, and a lot of companies were dumping "some" games, but it wasn't as crazy as you think. People still carried games normally (in my area) and not everything was dumped. The 2600 was reboxed later on for $49.99 in that red box in the mid to late 80s right around the time the NES was in full distribution, but those 2.5 years of supposed crash might have affected retail, but arcade still remained decent. Sure, it fell off slightly, but there was an even BIGGER crash for arcades in the 90s and for some reason video games as a whole are only referred to market crashes for console.

[snip]

I was there through this whole thing, and I have to say not everyone thought video games were a "fad" still from retail. Arcades were still around, people were still releasing games, console stuff was just stagnant for a bit, but that does not denote that the technology was not classic by any means, and I was around through this whole mess....I know our department stores sure didn't have a blowout of all Atari games for $1 in 1984-85....

Your experience is actually very much like mine. It wasn't really until 85-86 that it felt like the crash hit where I was, and that was mainly because the NES was pushing the remaining Atari and Colecovision stuff off the shelves. What I would later come to know as the crash was actually a great time for me to be a gamer, as it meant that there were games for under $5 at the drug store. There weren't any toy stores close enough to be visited with enough regularity to notice the big sales, but I did notice that the department stores didn't seem to be getting any new games, and the few new games that I heard of couldn't be found anywhere. The biggest change was how many places that used to have games that now didn't. Sears and JC Penney got rid of their game sections. The hobby shop at the mall no longer had a 2600 kiosk. Heck, even Lowe's once had a 2600 kiosk (that's where my Track & Field came from, the only store I ever saw it in).

So a few years later when I could look at it a little more critically, it all kind of clicked. Going back and rereading the issues of Electronic Games I had during that period and read endlessly I now saw the significance of things like when they said that the closing of Apollo could be the first of many to come. It could tell while it was happening that the video game scene of 1984 was different from 81-83, but it didn't seem like a crash to the guy on the street. To the guy in the boardroom though, it was a disaster. It was much more than just E.T. tanking, that just became the scapegoat in later years. The plummeting revenue at Atari, Mattel abandoning the market, the death of all but the biggest third party publishers - that was a definite crash.

Between the lag between the business side of the industry crashing and the normal person feeling it, the fact that arcades generally kept on going fairly strongly (there was a decline, but certainly not like the fighting game era collapse), and confusing factors like the Famicom release and the 7800's stop and go release, it is hard to put a definitive break between things. Living through it there was clearly a change in the nature of the games, the origin of the games, the size of the support industry (magazines, merchandising, etc.), and so on. Pre-crash vs. post-crash doesn't quite capture it. Maybe saying the Atari era vs. the Nintendo era is better. Maybe it was when we went from predominately score based gaming to progress/completion based gaming ("beating" the game became the goal), or when we went from position-centric mechanics to action-centric mechanics. Wherever that squiggly line is drawn, whatever you want to call it, there was a change from one era to another. Maybe the eras even overlap. To me, "classic" means that first era. Doesn't mean there's anything wrong with the next era, doesn't mean there aren't great games. But like I'll never call any rock music from the 80s "classic rock" and no cars from after the early 70s "classic cars", "classic" games will always be everything in the era before the post-crash/Nintendo/whatever you want to call it era, regardless of when the Famicom was released.

[Sanriostar]

Probably just as many times I've heard that gaming didn't "really" start until the NES, and those old primitive systems aren't even worthy of consideration as really being video games.

Things I still hear from time to time, and still fly me into a murderous rage.

[FrakAttack]

What about games like Victory Road, which had a console release on NES that was more of a "re-imagining" than a port. Bomb Jack comes to mind, too.

[Aussie2B]

Historically, I agree that it's worthwhile to use various qualities to divide things up, whether it be pre-crash versus post-crash, US-dominated versus Japan-dominated, score-based versus completion-based, or hardware generations (second versus third in this discussion). The NES is different from the 2600 or even the Colecovision in all of those areas, and it's worth pointing out. Obviously, the NES was a much more powerful piece of hardware, and its games were generally developed with a completely different mindset.

However, what intrigues me is the psychology behind why precisely the word "classic" is used and how it is used. Granted, maybe I should be questioning the older hobbies that use the same term, since video game collectors and historians probably just took inspiration from them, but there is still something about it that doesn't sit right with me. I've been around video game collectors for a long time, maybe not as long as some, but long enough to come to a conclusion that the use the term "classic" is virtually always tied to childhood nostalgia. No matter how many times someone may say that they find later games enjoyable, there is still that deep down desire to deny something from all post-crash gaming. I mean, just the very fact that they'd see fit to lump all gaming from the NES to the present in one group is very telling, or that systems like the Dreamcast would be brought up as if that's a suitable comparison to the NES. Of course the Dreamcast isn't classic; it's basically just one generation removed from modern gaming.

And for all the pre-crash collectors that grew up in that era and play more modern games, consider how many that don't. I've never seen a more closed in, stubborn group of gamers. Talk about taking nostalgia to the absolute extreme. It seems as if all of their playing and collecting is focus purely on bringing back childhood memories. They appear to value games in the same way one might keep an old G.I. Joe collection around or a Teddy Ruxpin. The only group I can think of that even comes close would be diehard NES collectors that grew up with the system, but even they generally branch out to other hardware generations and appreciate gaming just as gaming, not as something that necessitates nostalgia.

I'm not as deeply involved in any other "retro" hobby to know if fans of other collectibles are the same. Since "classic" rock has been brought up, I'm going to assume that it's generally defined as rock from the 50s, 60s, and 70s, so imagine if a radio station playing such music, which would frequently play tracks from 79, slipped in a song from 1980. Would they get an onslaught of complaints? I don't really think so, but perhaps I'm wrong. Look at how wide that era is too. I bet those that grew up with 50s rock must really get peeved that 70s rock is considered "classic". Maybe that's why there are terms like "oldies" to break it down further, but in that case it feels more like the era is being insulted rather than praised, haha.

The whole argument with the Famicom versus Colecovision isn't about saying it should be considered a second generation console or pre-crash or anything of the sort. It's like my theoretical song from 1980. If it's that extremely close and nearly just as old, why does it get denied the same treatment? If a song that first aired December 31, 1979 is considered undoubtedly "classic", isn't it silly to say a song from January 1, 1980 is undoubtedly NOT classic? And the whole "But I didn't play it as a kid back then, so it doesn't count!" argument is kinda pathetic. I mean, we're talking about history here, not personal experiences. What, should there be different standards in every country? As long as I'm in the US, the NES isn't "classic", but as soon as I step foot on Japan, it is? Saying the 1983 release of the Famicom doesn't matter is just as ignorant as a Japanese gamer saying that all the systems prior to the Famicom don't matter because none of them caught on over there. I'm sure any video game historian in Japan worth his salt would recognize the importance of the US-developed pre-crash (or pre-Famicom to them) consoles, regardless of how they did over there.

[DreamTR]

Probably just as many times I've heard that gaming didn't "really" start until the NES, and those old primitive systems aren't even worthy of consideration as really being video games.


That's funny. I've never heard that before (no one has ever referred to that situation to me), but everyone else has already confirmed the NES should be a part of this whole conversation because of the date. Just way ahead of its time.....

[TheGam3r]

The Simpsons and Pac-man Jr and X-men

[Arcade Antics]

The Simpsons and Pac-man Jr and X-men

Jr. Pac-Man came out for the 2600.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Has anybody mentioned:

Escape from the Planet of the Robot Monsters

and

Radical Bikers Pizza Delivery (Not classic in the traditional sense, but a favorite of mine.)

I love both of those ... I wish my MAME CPU was fast enough to handle Radical Bikers.

Also notable that there has never been an ARCADE PERFECT version of Donkey Kong and DK Jr. either by themselves or on a compilation (DK was unlockable in DK64 but it was a pain to do and was hardly "accessible" right out of the box).

[kingpong]

I wish my MAME CPU was fast enough to handle Radical Bikers.


My favorite arcade game of the 90s. Try the standalone emulator Aaron Giles wrote a few years ago to test out some things he was working on. Since it takes loads of shortcuts it will run on a much lesser PC.

[Darth Vader]

Pac-Man for teh 2600 was da bomb.......best game evah..... LOL

[DreamTR]

Radikal Bikers came out for PAL PS1

[98PaceCar]

Are you considering vector games at all? Even though most of them came out in some form, they just aren't the same unless you are playing on a real vector monitor.

Not sure about Quantum, Major Havoc, Rip Off, Tailgunner, or Red Baron in particular. I'm thinking they didn't come out on consoles at all. I know Star Wars has been rehashed many times on consoles, but what about ESB?

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Are you considering vector games at all? Even though most of them came out in some form, they just aren't the same unless you are playing on a real vector monitor.

Not sure about Quantum, Major Havoc, Rip Off, Tailgunner, or Red Baron in particular. I'm thinking they didn't come out on consoles at all. I know Star Wars has been rehashed many times on consoles, but what about ESB?

ESB is an unlockable game (along with SWA) in the Gamecube release Rogue Squadron III (one of the few reasons I intend to hold on to that title for all time).

While I don't think ESB is as good overall as SWA I do really enjoy playing it in a real SWA cabinet.

[98PaceCar]

ESB is an unlockable game (along with SWA) in the Gamecube release Rogue Squadron III (one of the few reasons I intend to hold on to that title for all time).

While I don't think ESB is as good overall as SWA I do really enjoy playing it in a real SWA cabinet.

I didn't realize it was in Rogue Squadron. I'll have to try it out.

There really is nothing quite like SW in the original cockpit with the bit 25" Amplifone in front of you! One of these days I need to install my SW/ESB kit and spend some real time with ESB. I always thought it was cool, but not cool enough to do a permanent conversion.

[Leo_A]

Lots of games being mentioned as never having home ports, when they in fact did (Excluding many of the ones already corrected so far).

Major Havoc (Atari Anthology and other compilations)
Rip-Off (Vectrex and being ported to the Atari 2600 currently)
Red Baron (Atari Anthology and other compilations)
Bomb Jack (Lots of classic versions and is on Tecmo Classic Arcade for Xbox/PS2)
Carnival ((2600, Colecovision, Intellivision)
Tapper (On most consoles outside of the 16 bit era)
Zoo Keeper (Taito Legends)
Disc of Tron (XBLA and I believe it was on the GBA Tron 2.0 release)


ESB is an unlockable game (along with SWA) in the Gamecube release Rogue Squadron III (one of the few reasons I intend to hold on to that title for all time).

While I don't think ESB is as good overall as SWA I do really enjoy playing it in a real SWA cabinet.

Don't forget Return Of The Jedi, its on there too, to complete the collection of the three classic Atari Star Wars arcade titles. Was finally discovered or released to the public a few years back how to unlock it. Having those three games on it was the primary reason why I finally bought a copy.

[Smashed Brother]

How about China Gate?

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Don't forget Return Of The Jedi, its on there too, to complete the collection of the three classic Atari Star Wars arcade titles. Was finally discovered or released to the public a few years back how to unlock it. Having those three games on it was the primary reason why I finally bought a copy.

Really???

Holy crap I had no idea.

By far my least favorite of the arcade games ... but certainly worth knowing it's on there!

[Ed Oscuro]

Fighting Hawk (Toaplan made, Taito manufactured and distributed) got a release a few years ago on Taito Memories II Vol. 1 / Joukan, which is rather less than some of Taito's other classic games (which maybe didn't get better releases due to screen considerations in the old days - they were also reprogrammed which has its ups and downs).

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Two of the most fun WWF games never made it home:

WWF Superstars

and

WWF Wrestlefest

Technos in their brawler prime IMO

There was far too great a divide between the home console and the power of arcade machines during that time.

I think both still hold up very well in the arena of arcade wrestling games.

[Greg2600]

Superstars was a great game. Given that wrestling games usually stink. I'd put that in my personal list with Super Off-Road, first TMNT, Simpsons, Afterburner, Super Sprint, Pole Position, and Golden Axe.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Superstars was a great game. Given that wrestling games usually stink. I'd put that in my personal list with Super Off-Road, first TMNT, Simpsons, Afterburner, Super Sprint, Pole Position, and Golden Axe.

I think you didn't read the title of the thread.

Games that didn't make it to home systems.

Super Off-Road (NES, Lynx, Genesis, Various Computers)
TMNT (NES, 360)
Afterburner (Master System, NES)
Super Sprint (NES, PS1, PS2, XBOX, Gamecube, etc.)
Pole Position (2600, 5200, etc.)
Golden Axe (Genesis, Master System, etc. etc.)

I'm pretty sure Simpsons is the only one that currently holds that honor.

[Greg2600]

:embarrassed: Duh. It was cut off in the higher listing as "Best classic arcade games..." Don't know if its classic or mentioned, but probably the game I've played the most in my life is SEGA's Indy 500 (1995), which never got ported.

[TheGam3r]

2 Underrated Arcade games from atari:

Food Fight and Super Missile Attack