Favourite games too hard for their own good

[Drixxel]

Everyone likes a good challenge, but some games push the boundaries of sanity. What are some titles you love in spite of (or because of) their extreme difficulty? These need not be games seen as universally impossible, just to you. Hell, if you just can't get your thumbs around a hadouken, vent away!

The first that springs to mind for me is..

Spider-Man/X-Men: Arcade's Revenge, SNES

Good god, this game has bested me for years. I would keep coming back to Arcade's Revenge throughout my childhood in hopes of beating it, gradually working out strategies for each character's stages, but doing the whole thing start-to-finish on a console stands as a feat practically unimaginable.

[Hardcore]

Ninjer Gaiden III.

[thom_m]

I always have a hard time around Captain Comic, for the NES - a game that a happen to like a lot. And Battletoads, obviously.

[sidnotcrazy]

Great Thread. There are so many games that I have labored to get to the end, to only be frustrated half way through the adventure.

Super Ghouls & Ghosts
Gradius 3

I will list some more later.

[Scream And Fly]

NES Ghosts N' Goblins. I can't win it, yet somehow the game beckons me for more torture at least once each year. 20 years later, and I still enjoy the sweet pain of defeat. I'll beat it someday.

[namzep]

NES Ghosts N' Goblins. I can't win it, yet somehow the game beckons me for more torture at least once each year. 20 years later, and I still enjoy the sweet pain of defeat. I'll beat it someday.
I'll have to agree with this. I could clear a couple of levels but could never get close to beating the damn thing. I'm half tempted to use cheats to get to the end of it.

I'll add the NES Mega Man games (especially 2, I think). I think I finally beat one of them a few years back and was so happy.

[Iron Draggon]

Iron Man & XO Manowar in Heavy Metal for the Saturn... I've never gotten past the first stage in this game, because I'm still stuck on the part where you fall down a shaft and fight a few enemies at the bottom... presumably there's supposed to be a way out after you kill all the enemies, but I've never figured out what it is... and you have to fall down that shaft, as far as I know... I've never felt so shafted by any other game before... I remember my excitement bubble getting popped the day I got this game when it was first released, after paying full price for it, just to get stuck on the very first level!

[StakeRaiser]

Battletoads

[Pezcore343]

Ghouls 'n' Ghosts. Definitely my favorite of that series but I don't I've personally ever gotten past the second level. Also Bangai-O, althought the one I've played is Bangai-O Spirits for DS. I felt so accomplished just getting through the tutorial on that game.

[skaar]

Double Dragon III - we'd rent it every few weekends to try again. Son of a bitch never got finished though.

Bionic Commando was my friend's nemesis, but I'd mastered the thing :D

Those skills didn't carry over too well to the new one yet... sadly. I need to go back to it.

[bo0naka]

The first that springs to mind for me is..

Spider-Man/X-Men: Arcade's Revenge, SNES



Oh God, I remember playing this with my brother over and over again. We each took turns on characters levels, trying to learn them and do them as best as possible. Finally, one day, we make it to Arcade. The moment the level loaded and we were about to fight him...the game FROZE.

We never played the game again.

[Lady Jaye]

Gradius III+IV on the PS2, Final Fantasy III DS (not FFIII SNES)...

FFIII DS has got to be the toughest RPG I've ever played. No wonder they didn't release it back in the day on the NES!

[skaar]

Gauntlet NES too - never got through that one either.

[Pantechnicon]

Gravitar. I've never gotten past the first world in the arcade version but I still play the hell out of it on MAME.

[shopkins]

Battletoads could easily be the best beat-em-up on the NES, IMO, but the psychotic difficulty of the hoverbike and similar stages ruins it for me. They knew they were making it too tough, right? Or did they have super-skilled playtesters?

I agree with Arcade's Revenge, too. Sure I could beat some of the individual stages, but doing them all together in one go was just a ridiculous task. I remember thinking I had done well to get to the end of the second Spider-Man level, although I got killed there. It was so disappointing to me when I was a kid because I was such a big comic book fan.

Speaking of which, the Silver Surfer NES game is also way too hard. I beat it but I had to use a level skip code, and maybe some others. I know I used an infinite continues code to get through the main levels. And the Punisher game is unreasonable, too.

I always thought Bayou Billy was too hard for me. I didn't have too much trouble with the driving and shooting, but the last beat-em-up level just overwhelmed me. Some kid brought a Game Genie to my friend's house and I played it with that and it was still difficult to get through it for me.

I think, however, that the difficulty is the main reason Ghost N' Goblins is well-remembered. Make it significantly easier and what you've got left doesn't seem that special to me. Also, I've played and practiced it until I can get to the second part of the third level, and I'll say that it seems to me like it's a game that's hard for the wrong reasons. Screwy jumps and enemies, the red demons, whose patterns are so random that it at least seems that sometimes there's no way to avoid a hit. Super Ghouls and Ghosts on the SNES was prettier and, I think, played better. I beat the first quest in that one, but it was still hard and there was no way in hell I was going through it a second time.

Gauntlet also is probably a little too hard, but it was one of the few NES games I owned growing up so I had to beat it. Bionic Commando's last boss made me as frustrated as just about any game had made me, but I loved the game so much I kept playing until I beat it.

In the modern era I really liked playing the PS2 Shinobi and the Xbox Ninja Gaiden Black, but it got to a point where I just had to admit that both were beyond my skill level.

[Coleman]

Well...

In response to the Hardest RPG Ever - Ultima Exous on the NES - Could never get past those damn gremlins stealing my food in the cave where you cant see.

Might and Magic got pretty nasty at the end as well what with the invisable Dungeon and all... And if you like your RPG's with puzzles go play Alundra for the PSX with no cheats!

And who can forget Contra?

The Mega Man X series was pretty insane for the NES...

But for me it was always Smash TV - Has ANYONE reached the end of this insanity?

[pseudonym]

-Solomon's Key for the NES.
-Ecco The Dolphin for the Genesis. The sequel Tides of Time is pretty hard too.
-Super Ghouls 'N Ghosts for the SNES. The most annoying part is the second quest where you have to find and keep that bracelet to get to the real final boss. It doesn't help that the bracelet sucks and makes the game 10x harder while you're using it.

[Xander]

I always thought Final Fantasy II on the famicom was the hardest rpg on the market.

Battletoads is GAH. I'm on my fourth partner for this game. They keep quitting on me -.-, but we finally got past the first racing level! :D

I think tons of NES games are too hard for their own good.

[NoahsMyBro]

Word for word :

Gravitar. I've never gotten past the first world in the arcade version but I still play the hell out of it on MAME.

[aclbandit]

FFIII DS has got to be the toughest RPG I've ever played. No wonder they didn't release it back in the day on the NES!

Really? I didn't think so.

My pick here would be Dragon Warrior/Quest II on the NES/Famicom. Because wtf dragons? In a low-level dungeon? REALLY?
Needless to say, this one took me a while.

[Clownzilla]

I would have to say the mind crushing LoLo games. Seriously, I want to meet the people who beat the later stages of these games. It's a fun game though and I frequent all three of them often:)

[bb_hood]

Castlequest for nes, so goddam hard

[Garry Silljo]

I'm having trouble thinking at the moment. Of the games mentioned I'd agree with Spiderman/Xmen and Ghost and Goblins (regular and super ... Ghouls and Ghosts was cake).

A lot of the other ones mentioed I think are easy as hell with just a hint of practice. BattleToads, Silver Surfer, Double Dragon 3, Contra, any Mega Man are all hard for a day or two but after that you should have them pretty well figured out. I won't dispute the initial challenge of them but with a little practice I don't see where the trouble is.

I'm going to retry Iron Man/XO Manowar since I saw it listed. It's been so long since I played it I can't remember it's hard or not. I don't remember beating it so maybe it's time.

[Game Freak]

Iron Man/XO Manowar.

I have that game on PS1, havent played it yet, so i cant give an opinion.

So...the list!

Ghosts n Goblins (NES)
Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde (NES)
Cybernoid (NES)
Spy Hunter (NES)
Contra (NES)
Life Force (NES)
Dungeons of Daggorath (TRS-80)
Star Wars (NES)
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (NES)
Out of This World (SNES/Genesis, I have both)
Star Fox (SNES)
Super Adventure Island (SNES)
Super Battleship (SNES)
Super Putty (SNES)
Tetris Attack (SNES usually pretty easy, but hardest vs is SO much fun)
Fester's Quest (NES)
Haunting Starring Poulterguy (Genesis)

may be some im forgetting....

[Xander]

I would have to say the mind crushing LoLo games. Seriously, I want to meet the people who beat the later stages of these games. It's a fun game though and I frequent all three of them often:)

We finished the three games me and my dad :) It's the only game he likes to play.

I'm preparing reproductions of a few Lolo hacks to get some good times again.

[shopkins]

Iron Man & XO Manowar in Heavy Metal for the Saturn... I've never gotten past the first stage in this game, because I'm still stuck on the part where you fall down a shaft and fight a few enemies at the bottom... presumably there's supposed to be a way out after you kill all the enemies, but I've never figured out what it is... and you have to fall down that shaft, as far as I know... I've never felt so shafted by any other game before... I remember my excitement bubble getting popped the day I got this game when it was first released, after paying full price for it, just to get stuck on the very first level!

This may be a dumb question, but did you try to fly out?

[tofu]

Battle Toads.

[sidnotcrazy]

A lot of the other ones mentioed I think are easy as hell with just a hint of practice. BattleToads, Silver Surfer, Double Dragon 3, Contra, any Mega Man are all hard for a day or two but after that you should have them pretty well figured out. I won't dispute the initial challenge of them but with a little practice I don't see where the trouble is.

Man, I...I would have never beaten Silver Surfer without cheat codes. The last level is unbelievable. Great game, and great music, but way too hard for at least me.

[Garry Silljo]

Man, I...I would have never beaten Silver Surfer without cheat codes. The last level is unbelievable. Great game, and great music, but way too hard for at least me.

I bought this after seeing the AVGN review. I love a good challenge and the review made it look impossible. The first hour or so it lived up to the hype. I was dissapointed though to reach the end on my third day of play. Like any schmupp once you're powered up it's damn hard to get killed by the enemies. Once you know where the boundaries are (often dificult to tell) it's managable. Zanac is a pretty challenging NES shooter I haven't beat yet. I should put that back in my circulation too. I love when topics like this pop up so I can find new challenges. However often the same stock answers of BattleToads and Ninja Gaiden 3 seem to always pop up and confuse me. Even Tecmo must have known how easy 3 was, that's why they limited the continues.

[Gunface]

I definitely have to agree with Battletoads. That game is absurdly difficult, but so much fun. At least when I'm not throwing my controller across the room.

When I was a kid it was Astyanax for NES. Such a difficult game, but I kept going back for more for reasons I can't explain.

[tom]

I was never very good at Star Wars: The Arcade Game on VCS.

[Hardcore]

POKEMON PUZZLE LEAGUE.

I have spoken.

[Garry Silljo]

Iron Man & XO Manowar in Heavy Metal for the Saturn... I've never gotten past the first stage in this game, because I'm still stuck on the part where you fall down a shaft and fight a few enemies at the bottom... presumably there's supposed to be a way out after you kill all the enemies, but I've never figured out what it is... and you have to fall down that shaft, as far as I know... I've never felt so shafted by any other game before... I remember my excitement bubble getting popped the day I got this game when it was first released, after paying full price for it, just to get stuck on the very first level!

I just played this to see if it was as hard as you made it sound. The solution here involves shooting into the background. It's impossible to figure out if you don't know that you can do that, but you did say you bought the game new and here's a hint ..... it came with instructions.

[sebastiankirchoff]

Tomb Raider Series for PS1- Excellent games, but some levels are fricken hard due to the fact that the controls aren't the greatest and I fall and die by accidently going too close to the edge. Also the fact that there aren't many save points also adds to the challenge, but I always come back for more.

Ninja Gaiden 2: Managed to get to the 4th level, but I am slowly getting to the end of the game. Even though its pretty hard, I keep coming back.

[Gunface]

Yeah I'll add the original Ninja Gaiden. So fun, but not easy.

[Goodwill Hunter]

The original Driver for Playstation...aside from the difficultly that some people had with the qualifying mission in the parking garage, the missions were pretty balanced for the most part. Until the final mission where you have to save the President, that is. Insanely aggressive police and secret service cars make it frustrating at best. Took me 3 weeks to finally beat it, and in all the years I have replayed that final mission, I have only beaten it two other times, and always by the skin of my teeth.

Rich

[Coleman]

Xexyz Is a game that i have never been able to bead - get stuck on the level 10 boss... It is a lot of fun though!

And what about the original Metal Gear for the NES - Its pretty hard game play but with persistance you should make it through...


Finaly - has anyone here ever beat "Trolls on Treasure Island"?

[bo0naka]

It's not really that old, but Panzer Dragoon Orta for the Xbox had me finally hang my head in shame and give up. I gave up on it once before, had friends try and gave up on it...finally made it to the last boss and was so stoked to be near the end of the game and never actually made it to the end. I still tell myself that one day I'll go back and finish the job.

[slapdash]

One of the ones that got me was "UN Squadron" for SNES... I really like the game, but then I got to the mission with platforms sliding back and forth above and below, and I'm just screwed. I always run out of weapons. I got past it once or twice to what I suspect is the final boss, and though I never succeeding killing it, I knew I had a better chance of doing so than getting to it again. Argh!

[kedawa]

Most Amiga games are too damn hard.

[Eric Dude]

A lot of the other ones mentioed I think are easy as hell with just a hint of practice. BattleToads, Silver Surfer, Double Dragon 3,


HYPERBOLE ALERT! HYPERBOLE ALERT!

Easy as hell with a little bit of practice. What's your idea of a little bit?

I'm not a prodigy when it comes to finishing games quickly or easily, but I'm no slouch either. Those three games are legitimately tough.

Mike Tyson is probably a little too hard for his own good, but then again, it's a challenge befitting a man who was the best in the world at that time.

Bayou Billy would be sooooooooo much more fun if it wasn't almost impossible to avoid taking considerable damage during the 'beat em up' levels. Seriously, how could Konami botch the game balance on that one so badly?

[Graham Mitchell]

Deadly Towers on the NES. It is a good game at its core, I don't care what anyone says. It's just that finding all the items (which is necessary to take on the towers) is nearly impossible because of the way the dungeons are laid out, and the fact that the entrance and exits are invisible. It can be interesting if you use the infamous cheat code, though...

A game that's a bitch for similar reasons (which has also been recently fried in an AVGN review) is Milon's Secret Castle. I would LOVE to finish that game, but every time I try I end up giving up after a couple of hours. There's a level that's like an infinitely-climbing tower and I can't figure out what the hell I'm supposed to do there.

To the uninitiated, I think Blaster Master is wickedly hard. One can level the playing field considerably by using a rapid fire controller, but even then the game wears you down with its incredibly long playtime with no saves or passwords. If you don't have it all memorized, expect to sit there for 5 hours. Somebody mentioned Fester's Quest (also by Sunsoft) which is even more difficult, but for similar reasons.

[Astrocade]

Of the aforementioned games, I have to agree with most of them except the NES Punisher and the original Contra. The Punisher I can usually beat on a good day, and I've been known to finish Contra on my original three lives. This comes from twenty years of playing them though.

Battletoads is seriously that hard? I beat that one as a kid as well, I remember it being tough but not insanely challenging.

Silver Surfer is pitifully hard. And what was the Double Dragon that gave you one life? That was pointless.

Of recent games, I reached a point in Hunter: The Reckoning that was just stupidly hard. I hated that I had invested so many hours into it at that point, as it sits unplayed on my shelf. The newer Ninja Gaidens are also hard to the point where they're not even fun to play. I did finish the first Ninja Gaiden on the NES as a kid, but the two later ones were just too damned hard.

When Super Mario All Stars came out and we got a taste of the Japanese SMB2, I was flabbergasted at its complexity. I eventually beat it, but it's still the toughest Mario game I've ever played.

My most frustrating moment of gaming came form the original arcade version of Shinobi. I dumped about forty dollars worth of quarters into that game one day. If you remember, this was one of the first arcade games that allowed you to dump another quarter in when you died and start the same level over again. Don't forget, you get ONE FUCKING LIFE per quarter, and you die if you get hit once. Not only that, but you can't even reappear where you just died- you go back to the VERY beginning of the level.

Being the idiot that I was, I was determined to get to the end of that bastard. I get to the last level, get to the final boss, and naturally he kills me within seconds. I go to dump another quarter in and guess what? If you die on the last level, you can't continue at all. Game Over. Start at level one. I was so pissed I started kicking the shit out of the cabinet and ended up being banned all summer from the arcade. I was probably madder at that moment than I had been in my entire life thus far. Still the hardest frikkin' side scrolling arcade game I've ever played.

[Sonicwolf]

The Super Star Wars Trilogy. Pain in the butt x1000. I love those games but they are seriously difficult at times. Impossible at others.

[PresidentLeever]

Another World
Contra: Hard Corps
Alundra (iirc)
Gaiares
Aleste series
solstice
solomon's Key 1-2
Ninja Gaiden 2-3
R.C. Pro-Am - this game is impossible!
Penguin Land

And finally, Triad stone for the laseractive. Extremely tough FMV game.

[The 1 2 P]

The last level of Star Wars: Dark Forces could not be beat without cheat codes. It was insane. Beyond that I have to go with Ninja Gaiden 2(nes) and Ninja Gaiden(Xbox). I'm still stuck at the second boss on the Xbox version. And Metal Slug 3 on Xbox because you don't get unlimited continues/men.

[Sonicwolf]

Another World

I may sound like an idiot but I tried that game several times and could never get past those little black slugs things on the first level that poison stab your leg. lol.

[j_factor]

I can beat Battletoads. What I don't get is why people always bring up Battletoads in these discussions, and not Battletoads Double Dragon, which IMO is significantly harder. Especially that damn Asteroids level.

I absolutely love the game Fatal Rewind (aka The Killing Game Show), but I've never been able to beat it. It's extremely difficult, but it never seems cheap.

[Drixxel]

I can beat Battletoads. What I don't get is why people always bring up Battletoads in these discussions, and not Battletoads Double Dragon, which IMO is significantly harder.

Make that the SNES version, and you experience true doom. God, that game is frustrating. Pummelings are abundant and unforgiving.

Another favourite that occurred to me after additional thought is 8 Eyes. While 8 Eyes is much-maligned, I love it, and the (sometimes unfair) difficulty makes the game feel so much more rewarding when things go right. Devilish maze stages, unavoidable hits, hidden items, only one proper level progression, sluggish controls.. the game can be a serious challenge, but it feels worth it, somehow.

The mention of Gravitar is one I completely support. Good lord, is Gravitar an ordeal, but so much fun to pick up from scratch and try again after inevitable and frequent deaths. Gravity = hell, nearly every time.

[Hardcore]

Karnov(NES), too. That game is hard.

[sidnotcrazy]

I may sound like an idiot but I tried that game several times and could never get past those little black slugs things on the first level that poison stab your leg. lol.

Ha Ha, those drove me nuts when I first bought this game. Another World, or Out of This World, whichever you prefer is a unique game. Just let them walk up to you, and kick them. It is one of those games that require you to go at a snail's pace sometimes, and run like your ass is on fire on other levels. I finished it long ago on the snes, and man it is one of my favorite games.

[shopkins]

Another World
Contra: Hard Corps
Alundra (iirc)
Gaiares
Aleste series
solstice
solomon's Key 1-2
Ninja Gaiden 2-3
R.C. Pro-Am - this game is impossible!
Penguin Land

And finally, Triad stone for the laseractive. Extremely tough FMV game.

Triad Stone must be much harder on the Laseractive than the 3DO version, Strahl. Strahl was falling off a log easy IIRC, one of the easier games of its type.

[Blitzwing256]

Deadly Towers on the NES. It is a good game at its core, I don't care what anyone says. It's just that finding all the items (which is necessary to take on the towers) is nearly impossible because of the way the dungeons are laid out, and the fact that the entrance and exits are invisible. It can be interesting if you use the infamous cheat code, though...

A game that's a bitch for similar reasons (which has also been recently fried in an AVGN review) is Milon's Secret Castle. I would LOVE to finish that game, but every time I try I end up giving up after a couple of hours. There's a level that's like an infinitely-climbing tower and I can't figure out what the hell I'm supposed to do there.

.

I for one LOVED how tough deadly towers was, you truly earn anything you pick up.

as for that tower level in milon's castle, theres one spot in the ipper right where you need to shoot the blocks then juimp through them to get to the boss.

[PresidentLeever]

Triad Stone must be much harder on the Laseractive than the 3DO version, Strahl. Strahl was falling off a log easy IIRC, one of the easier games of its type.

From what I could gather on Youtube, that seems to be the case. Very dumbed down from the original(?), where you had to press a button or two for every little movement your character made on screen. You had to have godlike reflexes to stay alive without any memorization.

[Draven]

The original Driver for Playstation...aside from the difficultly that some people had with the qualifying mission in the parking garage, the missions were pretty balanced for the most part. Until the final mission where you have to save the President, that is. Insanely aggressive police and secret service cars make it frustrating at best. Took me 3 weeks to finally beat it, and in all the years I have replayed that final mission, I have only beaten it two other times, and always by the skin of my teeth.

Rich

My #1 pick. I think I used some type of cheat code (maybe invincibility?) and STILL couldn't get past that level! If I remember correctly my car kept flipping over.

My thoughts on some mentioned:
BatteToads-hard
Ninja Gaiden-hard
Ghost & Goblins-hard
Bionic Commando-easy
Contra-easy
Bayou Billy-horrible collision detection on street fighting scenes-hard

I would suggest Batman (NES)-took me awhile to get through it. 10 years later I picked it up and finally conquered it. The last guy, Don, in Wade Hixton's Counter Punch (GBA) is near impossible. That's the toughest challenge I've come across in a while.

[MrSparkle]

Dark Wizard on the sega cd. Screwing up at any point and losing alot of your forces can make the game pretty hard to complete.

[bangtango]

The two most difficult games that I greatly enjoyed?

Rolling Thunder and Golgo 13 (NES)

Soapbox:

I wouldn't call myself a fan of Deadly Towers but that game gets a bad rap. To me, it is certainly playable because the controls are responsive and you die because you aren't good enough, not because the game cheats. At the least, those traits provide a solid foundation. Plus I like the creative design for a lot of the enemies.

For ALL that gets said about the (alleged) poor graphics and music of Deadly Towers (a common complaint), I'll bet there are at least 200-250 games on the NES with worse graphics and music, including a large number of games that came out in the years after Deadly Towers.

[Sotenga]

Holy Diver for the Famicom definitely qualifies for this case. It's a fine game that plays somewhat like Castlevania, but if you thought CV was as hard as rock, this game's a freaking diamond. I somehow got past level 3 once, but the beginning of the fourth really ripped into me with these freaking gargoyles and little bastards that spawn from literally nowhere. I intend to beat it someday, but we shall see if it actually works in my favor.

[Eric Dude]

Holy Diver for the Famicom definitely qualifies for this case. It's a fine game that plays somewhat like Castlevania, but if you thought CV was as hard as rock, this game's a freaking diamond. I somehow got past level 3 once, but the beginning of the fourth really ripped into me with these freaking gargoyles and little bastards that spawn from literally nowhere. I intend to beat it someday, but we shall see if it actually works in my favor.

I watched some of my friends (who have mastered games such as Battletoads, Silver Surfer, and Ninja Gaiden) getting their asses KICKED in this game! Made about as much progress as you: anytime a level was beaten, it was considered a monumental success!

Batman is definitely pretty tough, and nobody has said TMNT, right? I've heard that game gets pretty ridiculous near the end.

[badinsults]

I always enjoy throwing in Umihara Kawase to see if I can beat the tadpole boss. I haven't been able to do it yet. Too bad such a wicked game is so freaking impossible.

[mnbren05]

Second on:
Super Ghouls and Ghosts
Xmen Arcades Revenge (Countless hours spent on this one too)

Also:
Jaws NES
Yo Noid! NES
Space Station Silicon Valley N64 (its all in the final rooms!!!!)
Clock Tower 3 PS2

[xDerekRx]

Im suprised people mentioned Ninja Gaiden 2. I would always breeze through that game in a couple hours when I was a kid. however I could never beat Ninja Gaiden 1. There was this one stage with a blue background right near the end that you had to climb the side of a platfrom and get to the top of it. But there was a bad guy there. It was impossible to climb to the top and kill the badguy with him hitting you first. I would literally get back to that spot 100 times when i was a kid and always die. I never found what liked ahead. maybe once but I died again after. So close

BLAST CORPS for N64.

Not sure if anyone played this but the game was so involed. Fun, and it took a lot of time getting all the medals. But I couldnt for the life of me get all the stages to turn Platinum. Impossible.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Space Ace and Dragon's Lair II

in that order.

The original Dragon's Lair is still (IMO) the perfect product of the laserdisc arcade game era. Some boards are long, some are short, and even though it can take some serious time to memorize the boards - there's a certain logic and BASIC memorization that goes into it all.

Space Ace, as beautiful as it is has levels that move way too fast, are way too long, and have way too much memorization to really be anything more than a cash-eater for novice players. And the chances of finding a master player in an arcade back in the day to learn from vs. a master Dragon's Lair player seemed to be much much lower.

Dragon's Lair II suffers from that problem to the nth' degree. The levels are outrageously long and not only do you have to memorize in some cases 20-50 moves per level you NEED to pick up every single artifact in the game to get the real ending/not be sent back to the earlier stages where you missed something.

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE Space Ace and Dragon's Lair II ... I just don't "enjoy" playing them as much as I do Dragon's Lair.

[kupomogli]

FFIII DS has got to be the toughest RPG I've ever played. No wonder they didn't release it back in the day on the NES!

It's not hard. It's a grinder with retarded areas. Like areas you're forced to turn your characters Mini or Frog. The Dragon Warrior games are grinders too, but those ones are actually good.

[bangtango]

It's not hard. It's a grinder with retarded areas. Like areas you're forced to turn your characters Mini or Frog. The Dragon Warrior games are grinders too, but those ones are actually good.

Not sure which Dragon Warrior you are referring to. However, I don't consider those all that difficult. The primary problem people have is either going into areas with stronger enemies far too early before they are ready. The other problem is a player who hangs around too far away from a town battling enemies without any means to heal their damage.


Im suprised people mentioned Ninja Gaiden 2. I would always breeze through that game in a couple hours when I was a kid. however I could never beat Ninja Gaiden 1.

Me, too. I beat Ninja Gaiden 2 the first day I brought it home in a single sitting. I was pissed at how easy it was compared to Ninja Gaiden. $45 for a game I beat later that afternoon.

But you still ain't beat Ninja Gaiden 1 after all this time? Keep on trying and you'll do it. It is a hard one but it can be done.

If you can soundly beat NG at the drop of a hat, which I used to be able to do when I played NES 6-8 hours a day as a kid, then NG 2 is like a cool summer breeze.

[Draven]

Second on:
Super Ghouls and Ghosts
Xmen Arcades Revenge (Countless hours spent on this one too)

Also:
Jaws NES
Yo Noid! NES
Space Station Silicon Valley N64 (its all in the final rooms!!!!)
Clock Tower 3 PS2


I thought Jaws was pretty easy, just time consuming. If you swim to the main top he can't touch you, then drop down and fire a couple of harpoons...takes forever, but you should be able to do it without losing a life. Ramming him with the ship is another story, though. Seems like luck has more to do with it than timing, if I remember correctly.

[kupomogli]

Not sure which Dragon Warrior you are referring to. However, I don't consider those all that difficult. The primary problem people have is either going into areas with stronger enemies far too early before they are ready. The other problem is a player who hangs around too far away from a town battling enemies without any means to heal their damage.

They're still more of a grinder than most games are though. You'd get seriously owned if you tried going through any of them without leveling quite a bit before traveling to the next area.


But you still ain't beat Ninja Gaiden 1 after all this time? Keep on trying and you'll do it. It is a hard one but it can be done.

Yeah. NG2 is easy. I can one continue that game left and right. I can't one continue the original anymore, though I actually don't play it often anymore either.

[Classicgamesdepot]

These have probably been mentioned before, but I'm going to have to go with

Segaia (Genesis)
Metalstorm (Nes)

[hellfire]

smart bomb for psp

[Sudo]

Legacy of the Wizard on NES. I liked the game as a kid, but I never got very far due to having absolutely no clue where the hell I was supposed to go most of the time. Watching a speed run of it last year blew my mind.

[Graham Mitchell]

Legacy of the Wizard on NES. I liked the game as a kid, but I never got very far due to having absolutely no clue where the hell I was supposed to go most of the time. Watching a speed run of it last year blew my mind.

Wow, there's a speed run of it? This I gotta see.

I second your sentiment; this game is a behemoth. It's awesome but so incredibly difficult. It's like the real SMB2 (lost levels) where you need to take advantage of every quirk and seemingly unintentional anomaly in the "physics" (like pushing blocks around while you're riding on them) in order to complete the game. Good call.

[Sudo]

Wow, there's a speed run of it? This I gotta see.

I second your sentiment; this game is a behemoth. It's awesome but so incredibly difficult. It's like the real SMB2 (lost levels) where you need to take advantage of every quirk and seemingly unintentional anomaly in the "physics" (like pushing blocks around while you're riding on them) in order to complete the game. Good call.

Link to the speed run is here. (http://speeddemosarchive.com/LegacyOfTheWizard.html) I think I'm going to watch it again right now actually, since I'm bored out of my mind.

[Graham Mitchell]

Link to the speed run is here. (http://speeddemosarchive.com/LegacyOfTheWizard.html) I think I'm going to watch it again right now actually, since I'm bored out of my mind.

He's cheating in that video. Look at 5:37--he uses a glitch in the pausing protocol to do double jumps. He does it multiple times in Lill's stage. I was done with the video once I saw that. It just goes to show you how ridiculously hard that game really is though...even the "experts" cheat.

[k8track]

The discussion here has been very interesting and lively. But I knew this subject seemed very familiar; I did some searching and found:

What is the hardest game ever?
http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=103681

Top 50 hardest SNES games of all time!
http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15456

Top 5 Hardest RPGs?
http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=120428

hardest game /levels you had beaten
http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=68665

The Hardest Game?
http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=48882

The Hardest Game EVER???...
http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=44488

Hardest RPG's EVER
http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41335

whats the hardest game you've game youv ever played?
http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28572

Top 10 most difficult games: What are your choices?
http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=124228

Top 5 Hardest Games of All Time
http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5196

I'm just sayin'.

[Sudo]

He's cheating in that video. Look at 5:37--he uses a glitch in the pausing protocol to do double jumps. He does it multiple times in Lill's stage. I was done with the video once I saw that. It just goes to show you how ridiculously hard that game really is though...even the "experts" cheat.

Yeah, I agree that abusing glitches is a form of cheating, but SDA doesn't since people do it in most runs. As long as you're not using codes, savestates or Game Genie or something it's legal to do in the runs.