Sega Saturn Analog controller

[Sonicwolf]

I recently found a Saturn Nights Analog controller for 4 bucks at a local thrift shop and im wondering if anyone has a list of games that work with the analog joystick. I have not been able to find much information on the subject so any help would be appreciated.

[Wraith Storm]

I had HIGH hopes that it would work with GunGriffon, but alas it was not meant to be. I recently got GunGriffon II but have yet to try it with the controller to see if it works.

It does work with Croc, however. I used it all the time with that game.

[Mobius]

It gets recognized as a wheel in racing games -- or at least, it did in Daytona.

[SkiDragon]

http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92559

[Sonicwolf]

Thanks

[aclbandit]

This could be obvious, but perhaps not.

It works on NiGHTS Into Dreams... (it was packaged with copies of that game).

[CDiablo]

I know as well that it works with Panzer Dragoon Saga. RIP saturn 3D controller, forever known as the most uncomfortable controller to me.

[Sonicwolf]

This could be obvious, but perhaps not.

It works on NiGHTS Into Dreams... (it was packaged with copies of that game).


Yeah i knew that. I was going through a series of happy and sad emotions when I found the controller. Happy I found it, sad it didnt have Nights with it.

[aclbandit]

Yeah i knew that. I was going through a series of happy and sad emotions when I found the controller. Happy I found it, sad it didnt have Nights with it.

It's worth picking up, definitely. If you don't have it already, finding a copy without the controller will normally run you a lot cheaper.

[j_factor]

Almost every 3D game from late '96 on supports the analog pad. As said above, it will also be recognized by games that supported the analog racing wheel, which is just about every racing game on the system (the racing wheel was available at launch). Additionally, it will also be recognized by games that supported the Mission Stick peripheral (which was available at launch).

[A Black Falcon]

Yeah, and the fact that Sega had two analog peripherals both available at launch (Mission Stick joystick and Arcade Racer wheel), both of which are at least partially both intercompatible with eachother (just try it, a Mission Stick can control many Arcade Racer titles... not so sure about the other way around though, with no up or down controls... :)) and also at least partially compatible with the 3D Controller. Sony was far worse on this, with no official analog controller at all until spring 1996 (the Playstation Analog Joystick), and while the first analog gamepad (1997's Dual Analog Gamepad) had an Analog Joystick compatibility mode (green light mode), the next pad, 1998's DualShock, removed that. It added dual-motor rumble, but breaks Analog Joystick compatibility... so you need an older controller for the games that only have analog with it. Plus, because Sony had no analog controller for nearly a year and a half after launch, Namco stepped in and made the neGcon, which became the racing wheel standard... but because it's not official, games that only have analog support with the neGcon only have analog with neGcons or racing wheels and not any gamepad or flight stick, and because it's not official Sony, there's no back logo for it unless the packaging designers decide to mention neGcon support somewhere, as most US packaging designers never did. So which games support the neGcon? There are lists out there, but how complete are they... I have no idea.

So yeah, Sega was way, way better on this that generation. Not every game that was designed to support one of the three controllers is going to work with all three, but many will. As I said many or perhaps most Arcade Racer games will work with the Mission Stick and 3D Controller, and many Mission Stick games will work with the 3D Controller as well. I'm not sure about 3D Controller games with the Mission Stick or Arcade Racer, but it's worth a try at least...

You can't rely on packaging to figure out which games support the accessories, however. While Sega did have Mission Stick, Arcade Racer, and 3D Pad logos for their US packaging, a great many titles that support one or the other do not use the logos. Not all games that support the Mission Stick actually mention it on the box or in the manual, for US and European releases at least; you'll simply have to try your games and see what works. You'll probably be surprised and find some games you wouldn't have expected to have Mission Stick support to have it, and to have it workable in the 3D Controller...

Japanese packaging may be better, but as the text of the box that describes such things is in Japanese instead of using universal logos like the US boxes have or Nintendo and Sony use worldwise, only someone who knows Japanese could say, and I don't.

With Mission Stick to 3D Controller, really the main limitation I can think of is if the game assigned some vital function to the throttle wheel (Z axis) only. I don't think anything on the 3d controller (or arcade racer) copies that wheel's function. But other than that...

Oh, that list on that other page there isn't a complete list of games with the Gun, 3D Controller, and Mission Stick codes. I'm working on a list like that myself at the moment... I'm up to H, and am trying to cover all of the add-ons. I'll make a thread for it later when it's farther along... here's just the Mission Stick section for A-H. Note that as I say, this is mostly just going by the codes in the game headers, which are NOT always accurate. Don't trust that just because the header is there it necessarily has support, or because the header isn't it doesn't...

The worst offender there seems to be the Multitap; unless the "T" code is actually used by more than one accessory -- according to the list I have, a full 30 or 40% of the games with "T" codes don't actually have any multitap support, which is really odd... why do so many 1 or 1-2 player games have that code? Does it mean anything else other than Multitap?



Mission Stick Games
--
Listing A (the games one website with a list of US releases claimed had Mission Stick support)
--
Black Fire
Congo The Movie The Lost City of Zinj
Sega Ages (After Burner II and Space Harrier, not Outrun)
Soviet Strike (has Mission Stick logo on US box)
Wing Arms

--
Listing B (main list, from Madroms' Sega Saturn Complete Games and Demos Database, games with the "A" code)
--
Known Support
--
Afterburner II (Sega Ages)
Black Fire
Game Basic for Sega Saturn (game programming software -- no built in games, supports all peripherals except online network, VCD card, and RAM carts)
MechWarrior 2: Arcade Combat Edition (US box and manual have no mention of support for either, but it is present)
Sega Ages (After Burner II and Space Harrier, not Outrun)
Soviet Strike (Mission Stick logo is on box)
Star Fighter (StarFighter 3000) (US version lists no A or E support, EU version lists A but not E, JP version lists A and E; however game actually supports J, A, and E in all versions. JE versions incorrectly list it having multitap support as well, US does not.)
Space Harrier (Sega Ages)
Wing Arms

Listed, Unsure
--
3D Baseball (3D Baseball: The Majors)
Advanced World War Sennen Teikoku no Koubou ~Last of the Millennium~
Arcade's Greatest Hits - The Atari Collection 1 (Midway presents) (US box and manual have no mention of support)
Astra Superstars
Batman Forever: The Arcade Game (E version only has the listing; UJ versions do not have it)
Black Dawn
Blast Chamber
Casper (UE versions list it, but not J)
Croc - Legend of the Gobbos
Crypt Killer
Cyberia
Dark Savior (UE versions only have AE codes)
Darklight Conflict
Doom (UE versions have the A listing, but not J version)
Duke Nukem 3D (E version only lists A support, not U; both have E support listed however)
Formula Karts Special Edition
Frankenstein - Through the Eyes of the Monster
G Vector
Gale Racer
Grid Runner
Hardcore 4x4 (E version only has the code, not U version)
Hexen


Here's A-G for the 3D Controller, as far as I've gotten so far. Remember that many Mission Stick games will also work with it.

3D Controller ("E")
--
Astra Superstars
Advanced World War Sennen Teikoku no Koubou ~Last of the Millennium~
Afterburner II
Airs Adventure
Batsugun
Battle Garegga
Burning Rangers
Can Can Bunny Extra
Can Can Bunny Premiere 2
Choro-Q Park
Christmas NiGHTS into dreams...
Panzer Dragoon Saga (Azel: Panzer Dragoon RPG)
Code R
Contra - Legacy of War
Croc ~Pau-Pau Island~ (later J version only has E code, not earlier UE ones)
Crypt Killer (U version only, not E)
Daisenryaku Strong Style
Daisuki
Dark Savior (UE versions only have AE codes)
Daytona USA Championship Circuit Edition
Daytona USA Championship Circuit Edition Netlink Edition
Daytona USA Circuit Edition
Deep Fear
Die Hard Trilogy (only E version has this code, not U version (J missing data))
Digital Dance Mix Vol.1 Namie Amuro
Digital Pinball: Necronomicon
Duke Nukem 3D
Dungeon Master Nexus
Enemy Zero
Fantastep
Fuusui Sensei (aka Feng Shui Sensei)
G Vector
Galaxy Force II (Sega Ages)
Game Basic for Sega Saturn (game programming software -- no built in games, supports all peripherals except online network, VCD Cards, and RAM carts)
Greatest Nine '96
GT 24

[fahlim003]

Import Sega Ages OutRun works with the 3D Controller and to add compatibility for the list in the other thread Policenauts works with the Stunner/Virtua Gun.

[A Black Falcon]

I just got a Mission Stick from EBay (having Panzer Dragoon and MechWarrior 2, games designed for it, I couldn't resist...), and a copy of the pack-in 3-pack (Daytona, VF2, VC). And... well, the Mission Stick is cool and was definitely worth getting.

Of course, one thing I did is test it with my other games. And... huh, this is VERY interesting. I've read about the stick, but either nobody tested this or (more likely) I simply missed it -- the Mission Stick seems to work with games designed for the d-pad, just in a 'digital' mode which doesn't give you true proportional analog control. I've only had time to test it with a couple of games (I'll test it with the rest later and post again), but here's what I've got so far...


Note that in games not designed for an analog controller (Mission Stick, Arcade Racer, or 3D Controller), you don't get analog controls with the Mission Stick, really -- the stick works, but in a 'digital' all-or-nothing manner, not with proportional movement control or anything like that like you'd get with a game truly designed for an analog controller like you'd get with Daytona USA or something. But it does work and you can use it for the games.


Daytona USA -- Game thinks it's the Arcade Racer, as expected, so you get analog control. The two paddles on the sides of the wheel are up and down on the stick (so don't set them to accelerate and brake! :D).

Virtua Cop -- Not listed in peripheral code or on box. The stick does indeed work fine, however, with one odd exception -- it doesn't seem to work at all in the Options menu. You can navigate the main menu, select things, play the main game (move the cursor around, fire, etc)... but you can't do anything at all in options, you need another controller for that. Strange. As I said, with the 3D Controller, you must use Digital mode for it to work -- in Analog mode the controller is completely nonfunctional.

Virtua Fighter 2 -- Like Virtua Cop, the box and peripheral codes make no mention of Mission Stick... but the stick is fully supported, and will work in all menus and gameplay. It's kind of funny playing a fighting game with this huge joystick... LOL With the 3D Controller, the controller functions in Analog mode as well as digital of course), but only with the d-pad; the analog stick does not function.

Tomb Raider -- Mission Stick works in all menus and ingame, as with VF2. With the 3D Controller, however, you must set the controller to Digital mode for it to funtion at all -- no buttons or sticks respond in Analog mode, you need to go to Digital to play the game. As with the other games though, though you can play the game with the Mission Stick, the controls are not proportional, so you have d-pad style 'all or nothing' movement with the joystick.

Overall, I am a little surprised. So evidently the Mission Stick can emulate the d-pad in games that do not natively support analog? That's really, really interesting... I definitely did not know that. I wonder if there are any games that don't work with it?


Oh, and on an archive of usenet messages (see a few posts down for link to source), I saw a message that claimed that you could attach two sticks to one Mission Stick central base unit (with the base buttons, turbo switches, etc), and that in Panzer Dragoon II: Zwei, you could use both sticks to control the dragon with one stick and the cursor with the other. I only have one Mission Stick (and don't have Zwei, just the first Panzer Dragoon, so far) so I can't verify this, but this definitely interested me... I should try it sometime. The capability DOES exist -- on the bottom of the Mission Stick base unit, there are TWO ports for you to plug stick units into, not just one, each attaching via a detachable controller cable (so yes, you can take the stick and base parts apart). So you could indeed plug two sticks into one base unit... huh. I wonder if any games actually support such a setup? Does Zwei? Could that work as a Twin Stick for Virtual-On, or does that require the Twin Stick itself?

[Diosoth]

I know as well that it works with Panzer Dragoon Saga. RIP saturn 3D controller, forever known as the most uncomfortable controller to me.

It's like trying to hold a saucer with all the buttons on one half and popsicle sticks for makeshift handles.

[grolt]

Oh, and on an archive of early '90s email or usenet messages or something like that (I'd have to look to find the specific source), I saw a message that claimed that you could attach two sticks to one Mission Stick central base unit (with the base buttons, turbo switches, etc), and that in Panzer Dragoon II: Zwei, you could use both sticks to control the dragon with one stick and the cursor with the other. I only have one Mission Stick (and don't have Zwei, just the first Panzer Dragoon, so far) so I can't verify this, but this definitely interested me... I should try it sometime. The capability DOES exist -- on the bottom of the Mission Stick base unit, there are TWO ports for you to plug stick units into, not just one, each attaching via a detachable controller cable (so yes, you can take the stick and base parts apart). So you could indeed plug two sticks into one base unit... huh. I wonder if any games actually support such a setup? Does Zwei? Could that work as a Twin Stick for Virtual-On, or does that require the Twin Stick itself?

That's interesting. I'm not sure that works, though. The two ports on the Mission Stick are just so you can toggle between a left and right hand setup (which in itself is cool and another reason why Sega pwns peripherals). I'd imagine being plugged into one would affect the other - similar to a Mac keyboard with USB slots on either side. Considering all the fuss there is for importing those Virtual-On Twin Sticks, I'm sure this would have been mentioned as a cheaper alternative. I'd love to be proven wrong, though, because then I'd definitely be investing in a second stick.

I just got finished playing Dark Savior a few months ago, and I was pretty impressed by the way it utilized the 3D controller. It's one of the only games I've played on the Saturn where you use both the analog and D-pad together (rather than toggling between). You move your guy with the D-pad, but you can quickly move the perspective around with the analog pad. It's pretty neat.

[j_factor]

Overall, I am a little surprised. So evidently the Mission Stick can emulate the d-pad in games that do not natively support analog? That's really, really interesting... I definitely did not know that. I wonder if there are any games that don't work with it?

I would bet Golden Axe: The Duel doesn't work with it. It's the only game I know of that's incompatible with the (regular) analog controller, even with the slider set to digital. Not sure why that is.


Oh, and on an archive of early '90s email or usenet messages or something like that (I'd have to look to find the specific source), I saw a message that claimed that you could attach two sticks to one Mission Stick central base unit (with the base buttons, turbo switches, etc), and that in Panzer Dragoon II: Zwei, you could use both sticks to control the dragon with one stick and the cursor with the other. I only have one Mission Stick (and don't have Zwei, just the first Panzer Dragoon, so far) so I can't verify this, but this definitely interested me... I should try it sometime. The capability DOES exist -- on the bottom of the Mission Stick base unit, there are TWO ports for you to plug stick units into, not just one, each attaching via a detachable controller cable (so yes, you can take the stick and base parts apart). So you could indeed plug two sticks into one base unit... huh. I wonder if any games actually support such a setup? Does Zwei? Could that work as a Twin Stick for Virtual-On, or does that require the Twin Stick itself?

Not sure about using two Mission Sticks for Virtual On (or anything, for that matter), but that makes me wonder if PD Zwei supports the Twin Stick. I'll try it out later, but probably not.

[grolt]

I would bet Golden Axe: The Duel doesn't work with it. It's the only game I know of that's incompatible with the (regular) analog controller, even with the slider set to digital. Not sure why that is.

Ahh, that game. Drove me nuts when I picked it up a few years ago. The copy I bought was mint, and here it just would not load on my Saturn. I thought I was going crazy, and then I just happened to swap out my 3D pad and all of a sudden it worked. Someone drank some stupid juice when porting that game...

[A Black Falcon]

I would bet Golden Axe: The Duel doesn't work with it. It's the only game I know of that's incompatible with the (regular) analog controller, even with the slider set to digital. Not sure why that is.

Hmm. Yeah, Tomb Raider and Virtua Cop both do work with the 3D Controller as long as it's in digital mode... but the fact that they don't work with it in analog mode, while with the Mission Stick both games work just fine, suggests that maybe Golden Axe would work... but yeah, that would absolutely have to be tested.

The Saturn had so many different official controllers, it's pretty interesting trying to figure out which games actually supported which ones, and to which degree... there's a bit of information on this out there if you go digging, but that really only helps with the official codes, not the intricacies about how compatible the controllers are with eachother -- like with this evident ability of the Mission Stick to emulate a d-pad in games that do not support any analog modes...

I do have one standard pad as well as the 3D Controller and Mission Stick, so I definitely could play Golden Axe: The Duel, at least, in single player anyway... so far I like the 3D Controller more than the standard (model 2) pad, though, so it's too bad that the game doesn't support it. (I absolutely love the Dreamcast controller and the Saturn 3D Controller is pretty much that but slightly better (six face buttons instead of four, much better d-pad...), so yeah, I like it a lot. Awesome, awesome controller!)


Not sure about using two Mission Sticks for Virtual On (or anything, for that matter), but that makes me wonder if PD Zwei supports the Twin Stick. I'll try it out later, but probably not.

Yeah, I wouldn't guess that it would, but it's worth trying at least, definitely. :) I'm interested in the results.

[A Black Falcon]

That's interesting. I'm not sure that works, though. The two ports on the Mission Stick are just so you can toggle between a left and right hand setup (which in itself is cool and another reason why Sega pwns peripherals). I'd imagine being plugged into one would affect the other - similar to a Mac keyboard with USB slots on either side. Considering all the fuss there is for importing those Virtual-On Twin Sticks, I'm sure this would have been mentioned as a cheaper alternative. I'd love to be proven wrong, though, because then I'd definitely be investing in a second stick.

Actually, that's wrong. You do not switch ports when you want to flip the controller to the other side; the two ports are labeled "Main Control" and "Sub Control", and when you want to switch sides you unscrew the two screws, flip the plastic thing over to the other side while sliding it to the other side of the area it locks in, and screw the screws in on the holes on the other side, to keep the joystick stable. You don't switch ports. Indeed, switch ports and then try to play Panzer Dragoon and you'll suddenly find that the stick part of the controller isn't working anymore, only the base unit... :) I just tried it, and that's exactly what happened.

Clearly, the "Sub Unit" side is meant only for games with support for the dual-stick mode, with two sticks plugged into the unit. The question, I think, is whether (or which) games have support for such a mode.

Here's my source for the dual mission sticks thing. I was quite wrong about the date; it's from just a few years ago, not longer ago. Oops... oh well, here it is. Read the link. :)

http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Rec/rec.games.video.sega/2005-09/msg00065.html


I just got finished playing Dark Savior a few months ago, and I was pretty impressed by the way it utilized the 3D controller. It's one of the only games I've played on the Saturn where you use both the analog and D-pad together (rather than toggling between). You move your guy with the D-pad, but you can quickly move the perspective around with the analog pad. It's pretty neat.

Yeah, when I finally got a Saturn this January, the one thing I said that I must have is a 3D Controller, because the first reason I wanted the system was to properly play NiGHTS, which of course requires the 3D Controller to be fun. And as I said in my last post, it's an exceptional controller, quickly becoming one of my favorites ever.

As for controls, yeah, I do wonder how many games actually support both the analog stick and the d-pad, of the titles programmed with 3D Controller support... it probably isn't all that many (like Mission Stick games that use the throttle wheel?). I do have one, though -- MechWarrior 2 also uses both the analog stick and d-pad. As I said earlier the game doesn't list any 3D Pad or Mission Stick support on the box or in the manual (or on the controls card), but they're both fully supported, with great layouts that work perfectly. On the 3D Pad, the triggers are (as I said) for analog speed control, while the analog stick turns left and right and looks up and down (inverted by default, of course) and the d-pad rotates the turret left and right (on left and right) and changes your view in and out (on up and down -- MUCH easier to use than with a standard controller or Mission Stick, where both functions are on one button... yeah, it doesn't work too well with anything else.). The Mission Stick puts speed control on the throttle and weapon switch and target select on B and C, so the three most important functions are on the d-pad. Despite the aforementioned "both zoom in and out is on one button" issue, the Mission Stick is definitely the best way to play the game. I mean, it's a mech game. There's no better way to play a mech game than with a joystick, just like with a space combat sim. :)

[grolt]

Actually, that's wrong. You do not switch ports when you want to flip the controller to the other side; the two ports are labeled "Main Control" and "Sub Control", and when you want to switch sides you unscrew the two screws, flip the plastic thing over to the other side while sliding it to the other side of the area it locks in, and screw the screws in on the holes on the other side, to keep the joystick stable. You don't switch ports. Indeed, switch ports and then try to play Panzer Dragoon and you'll suddenly find that the stick part of the controller isn't working anymore, only the base unit... :) I just tried it, and that's exactly what happened.

Hmm, so if you just plug the one stick into sub, wouldn't it then control the cursor part of Panzer Zwei? Couldn't you then effectively just swap the inputs to test out which games would be compatible with a dual stick mode? So for instance, if Virtual-On issued a response in the "sub" input, then therefore it would work with both? Or does the sub just not work at all unless there is first something triggering the main input?

[j_factor]

Well I tried Zwei with the Twin Stick, and as I suspected, nothing special. I think it has to detect an analog controller to use the special Mission Stick control mode.

[grolt]

Okay, this is cool. I tried out Zwei with a Mission stick and just tried plugging the plug into each sub or main input. Nothing special, it wouldn't really work when I plugged it into sub. I noticed that the plugs were just your plain Jane serial, so I got out my Sega Sports Pad trackball from the Master System and just plugged it into the sub. Voila, I could control both the movement of the dragon (on the Mission Stick) and the movement of the cursor (with the Sports Pad). It played like shit, mind you, but it was a pretty surreal experience.

I tried plugging a Genesis controller into the back and you could control the aim as well, but the control is all messed up, always pulling to the top right corner. Still, it just shows that the game is in fact responsive to a digital signal and that it can accept multiple sticks as was originally posted in the linked article. If you can't be bothered to find another Mission Stick, give it a try with any old school serial controller and you should get some sort of response.

[Wraith Storm]

This sounds awesome!!! I know my local Game X Change has several Saturn Mission Sticks for really cheap. I didn't think I would ever really have a use for one so I never bought it but now i'm wishing I had!

I'm going into town later today and I'll see if I can't snag both of them. I love trying different control methods on games and it sounds like you can do a lot of interesting stuff with the Mission Stick!

[Wraith Storm]

Damn! Of course they had those Saturn Flight/Mission Sticks for over a year and I passed on them every time. Got there today and the guy said someone bought them last Sunday!!!

That figures... They were only 5 bucks apiece as well. I don't think i'll ever find a deal that good on a pair any time soon. Guess i'm gonna have to hit up Ebay :-/

I'm really curious if the dual stick combo works with PDZ or any other Saturn game for that matter! That would be awesome!

[A Black Falcon]

I got mine for $0.10 on Ebay... plus $10 shipping, though. So yeah, you're not likely to get two for that price. :(

And yeah, it's awesome to hear that the dual-stick combo thing actually works! That's really, really interesting... no why in the world would they put such a cool thing in the game and never bother to mention it? This even goes for basic mention of basic Mission Stick support; neither game, for instance, even has the Mission Stick logo on the back, despite being designed for the thing, much less mentioning something as awesome as this alternate mode in the PD Zwei manual. It's odd. How are people supposed to know about it, exactly? Does the Mission Stick manual say anything about the Sub port and attaching a second stick? I don't have the stick's manual, if there is one.

[j_factor]

The back of the PD Zwei manual advertises the Mission Stick and says "The ultimate control for Panzer Dragoon II Zwei and other flying and shooting games!" But the Mission Stick logo isn't on the back of the box and the inside of the manual doesn't mention it at all. Weird.

[A Black Falcon]

The back of the PD Zwei manual advertises the Mission Stick and says "The ultimate control for Panzer Dragoon II Zwei and other flying and shooting games!" But the Mission Stick logo isn't on the back of the box and the inside of the manual doesn't mention it at all. Weird.

Yeah, that's exactly the kind of bad design I was talking about. How will people know that the Mission Stick is the best way to play Panzer Dragoon if you never say anywhere that the game even SUPPORTS the thing? And that's not even getting to this awesome dual-stick mode in Zwei...

That ad sort of hints at it, but as the game manual and box themselves have no mention of the Mission Stick, I don't think it quite counts.

Japanese boxes may actually list all controllers each game supports... that text is in Japanese though, so I'm not certain. But American and European ones most definitely do not.

[kedawa]

PD Zwei works with the nights controller, too. IIRC, you just need to take the super attack off the y and z buttons so it doesn't randomly go offf.

[A Black Falcon]

PD Zwei works with the nights controller, too. IIRC, you just need to take the super attack off the y and z buttons so it doesn't randomly go offf.

Well yeah, virtually all Mission Stick games work with the analog stick of the 3D Pad, in analog mode. It's definitely great that Sega has so much inter-operability between their various controllers for the Saturn... they had so many official controllers for the thing! Sony did worse with the Playstation, with games that used the the Analog Joystick not being compatible with analog on the later Dual Shock pad... and the neGcon and its incompatibility with everything other than racing wheels that also use its format, etc... it's much better on Saturn. :)

As I think I said, though, I found that in the first Panzer Dragoon, with the 3D Controller you couldn't quite get into the corners of the screen, so some missiles and shots which come at you in the corners are impossible to stop -- a major issue, in some bossfights... it forced me to go into digital at parts. Not fun. Playing the game with an actual Mission Stick is definitely better. I don't know how well Zwei works, though, of course.

[Thrillo]

As I think I said, though, I found that in the first Panzer Dragoon, with the 3D Controller you couldn't quite get into the corners of the screen, so some missiles and shots which come at you in the corners are impossible to stop -- a major issue, in some bossfights... it forced me to go into digital at parts. Not fun. Playing the game with an actual Mission Stick is definitely better. I don't know how well Zwei works, though, of course.
Wait, so doesn't that mean that in Nights and other games intended to use the analog controller, using a mission stick would allow you to move further diagonally? Seems like the round field of travel of the analog controller is limiting it from being able to hit the x,y values in the corner...

[A Black Falcon]

Wait, so doesn't that mean that in Nights and other games intended to use the analog controller, using a mission stick would allow you to move further diagonally? Seems like the round field of travel of the analog controller is limiting it from being able to hit the x,y values in the corner...

It depends on what the game was designed for, really, and what kind of game it is. A game designed for the 3D Controller stick would compensate for that issue; on the PC, this is what joystick calibration is (or was) for: telling the system what the limits of the stick are, so it's not expecting something outside of the range that stick can do. The Saturn doesn't have calibration like that, so it's up to the game's design. So, the game is expecting you to be able to reach a bit farther into the corner than the 3D Controller's stick can. Games designed for the Mission Stick but not the 3D Controller may have this problem, if they use a control scheme that puts some important function on being able to use the corners of the stick's motion.

You can't have the opposite problem, of course -- a game designed for the circular limit of the 3D Controller will be able to have its full range represented with a Mission Stick. The difference in control style does matter, though. NiGHTS struggles with the Mission Stick; it just isn't much fun at all... The potential issues are different, though. The game is designed for a stick which you can quickly spin and rotate around in circles as you fly in the air... perfect for the circular-limited 3D Controller stick. With anything else, like the square-limited Mission Stick, it's just not quite the same... and it's harder to do spinning flight motions with such a large stick. '

So, the additional space in the corners adds nothing to a game not expecting for that space to be there, it just makes spinning the stick in spirals to fly around a little harder than it is with the 3D Controller, and in addition, due to the large size of the stick, you can't turn as quickly. Playing NiGHTS with the Mission Stick is kind of interesting, but not ideal.


In other news, I tried a few more games with the Mission Stick. Remember that earlier I tested Tomb Raider, NiGHTS, Daytona USA, Virtua Cop, and Virtua Fighter 2. Now adding these:

Galactic Attack -- With the 3D Controller, you must be in Digital mode; in Analog mode the controller has no function. With the Mission Stick, the stick and buttons have no function in the menus (main menu or options menu). You'll need another controller to get into the game. Once in, though, you CAN play with the Mission Stick -- ingame, the stick will move your ship (digitally, of course, not proportionally), Start will continue after you get game over, etc. It's awful, barely usable, and highly NOT recommended, but if you really want, you can do it. :)

Bug! -- Again, with the 3D Controller, you must be in Digital mode, and in Analog mode the controller won't do anything. With the Mission Stick, though, the game controls perfectly, menus and all. It controls the game okay; it is just digital, though, which is too bad. Bug would be a much better game, I think, with proportional controls, like Klonoa or Goemon's Great Adventure... the limitations of digital controls hold it back. The lack of saving is the game's biggest flaw of course, but controls are an issue... but it does control reasonably well with the Mission Stick. This might be worth a bit more play, and the game IS good (interesting levels, great graphics...). You just really need to use those level-skip codes as an effective replacement for the lacking save system (which they did put into the sequel, which I'm sure I'll eventually get).

But overall, buying a Mission Stick is worth it for Panzer Dragoon alone.