So let me get this straight? (MS transferring DRM)

[Buns34]

Everytime your console breaks, and you send it to Microsoft for repair, they automatically transfer your drm to the new console, even if it has been less than a year since the last transfer? But if you go out and buy a new console, to replace your old one, Microsoft will not let you transfer your drm until it has been one year since the last transfer? WTH?

I did the transfer from my launch console to a core console that i purchased last July, and that core console died on me last month, so i just went out and bought another core arcade unit, because i did not want there refurbished crap. Well they are telling me that there is no way that i can transfer my drm until this coming July. So i can only access MY thousands of dollars worth of content when i am online until July. Something is terribly wrong in this picture! And i just found this out from a manager who called me back after two weeks of waiting, after he told me that the transfer was in process.

[zektor]

I do have to say that Sony has it right with the whole activate/de-activate thing. I can go buy a brand new PS3 right now, go on my current unit and deactivate, then hook up the new and activate. Actually, you get five activations at once, and if you try to exceed five you would have to deactivate one of the consoles. Very good system imho.

[ProgrammingAce]

So instead of risking getting a refurb console (for free), you went out and spent $200 and bought a new Xbox?

In the last 3.5 years, you've bought 3 different xboxes instead of repairing the ones you have for free. If you had gone through the proper process, you wouldn't have any problems, all of your DLC would work, and you'd never have had to use the transfer tool.

Even though you're not following the standard procedure, microsoft still gives you a way to use all of your content on whatever console you'd like. As long as you're connected to Xbox Live, your DLC will be activated. I don't know what else you'd like them to do for you.

Allowing the license transfer tool more then once per year opens up a rather obvious method for duplicating whatever XBL content you'd like for free, as many times as you'd like. At least this way, you can only duplicate your content once per year...

As for Sony, they do pretty well for the game DLC, but their rights on movies are horrible. If you ever delete the content for any reason, you have to pay to get it back, no matter what.

[Sniderman]

I edited your subject title to give everyone some kind of clue as to what the frack your thread was about without needing to click into it. Generic subject thread titles are a pet peeve of mine, so please give us a bit more to go on other than "What the deuce?" next time.

Carry on with your regularly schedule conversation...

[Buns34]

I have periods where i have no access to the internet, so since all of the content is mine, i want to have offline access to it. And i bought the new console since i wanted the new Jasper chipset, which is supposed to be more durable.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Everytime your console breaks, and you send it to Microsoft for repair, they automatically transfer your drm to the new console, even if it has been less than a year since the last transfer? But if you go out and buy a new console, to replace your old one, Microsoft will not let you transfer your drm until it has been one year since the last transfer? WTH?

I did the transfer from my launch console to a core console that i purchased last July, and that core console died on me last month, so i just went out and bought another core arcade unit, because i did not want there refurbished crap. Well they are telling me that there is no way that i can transfer my drm until this coming July. So i can only access MY thousands of dollars worth of content when i am online until July. Something is terribly wrong in this picture! And i just found this out from a manager who called me back after two weeks of waiting, after he told me that the transfer was in process.

Yes. You are correct.

I had the same situation back in November. My old 360 which was about 2 years out of warranty died ... and instead of sending it in for a $100 repair (which really means I'd get a crappy refurb back in the mail) I decided to pick up the excellent Arcade unit with HDMI port and 2nd wireless controller instead. It was by all accounts a better value.

I spent a good few hours on the phone with Microsoft's out-sourced customer service department, and the managers, and the tech department.

And Microsoft has the equivalent of the Thuggee Guards from Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom standing over the desks of the customer service reps brandishing giant bull-whips and instilling the fear of god into them if even the SUBJECT of a license transfer is brought up by a consumer.

They WILL NOT under ANY CIRCUMSTANCES allow for your console's license to be transferred if you've used the automatic license transfer tool once that year.

You can explain, argue, debate, cry, draw a flow chart, or offer up your first born child and they're not going to do it.

You'll need to remain online to play a majority of your XBLA titles.

And what's WORSE, is that most if not all XBLA titles that were released JUST PRIOR TO AND AFTER the NXE experience contain more stringent code in them that ABSOLUTELY REQUIRE the license for the downloaded game to be tied to the console they were purchased on.

For instance - V8 Arcade will NOT drop out of "trial" mode (I've been trying various ways to do it over the past few weeks) and allow you to save your progress in quest mode. I've even spoken directly to Isopod Labs about it and they say that the ONLY way to get it out of trial mode is to use the license transfer tool ... which I'm going to have to wait till around June or July of this year to use again.

Go through your games. I bet there are a few that you won't be able to get out of trial mode no matter what you do.

Braid thankfully has a back-door that is detailed on the FAQ section of the official site.

So. Yeah, we're both screwed for the immediate future.

MS REALLY REALLY needs to fix this. I don't mind that I NEED to be online to play my XBLA games ... I could at at least DEAL with that ... but games that I've PAID FOR not being able to run outside of trial mode even WHEN I'm online based on even more restrictive and stealthy DRM is just fucking ridiculous.

[s1lence]

Sorry, Im going to say that the DRM is bullshit.

Microsoft states CLEARLY that when you get a new/refurb 360 from them, all of your content will be "transfered" to that box. I'm going to call bullshit on that and I will continue to call bullshit on that.

My reason, unless I'm online my content will NOT work. Yes, anything prior to my system getting replaced, my content will not work unless I'm online. This is NOT what MS says in their own paper work. What ever they say they transfer, they don't.

The only way I can use it offline was doing the DRM fix, which allows me to do that ONCE a year. Which is REALLY sweet considering I went through 3 systems in the last year and a half.

Yet....I still play my 360.......odd.

I won't get into my import XBLA stuff though, thats a whole other story.

[Buns34]

Thanks guys. Yeah i love the 360, but Microsoft is the worst company in gaming today!

[Leo_A]

To finish the transfer, you have to redownload each piece of DLC (Don't delete first, or you'll have to download the entire file), to associate the license with your new console.

[ProgrammingAce]

Sorry, Im going to say that the DRM is bullshit.

Microsoft states CLEARLY that when you get a new/refurb 360 from them, all of your content will be "transfered" to that box. I'm going to call bullshit on that and I will continue to call bullshit on that.

My reason, unless I'm online my content will NOT work. Yes, anything prior to my system getting replaced, my content will not work unless I'm online. This is NOT what MS says in their own paper work. What ever they say they transfer, they don't.

The only way I can use it offline was doing the DRM fix, which allows me to do that ONCE a year. Which is REALLY sweet considering I went through 3 systems in the last year and a half.

Yet....I still play my 360.......odd.

I won't get into my import XBLA stuff though, thats a whole other story.

That's the way it *should* work. It should be transfered at the factory. Your case may be unique, I don't have any idea what they did to your profile when you wern't able to recover it.

I'm not trying to excuse MS, 'cause that sucks, but that may be why.your DRM doesn't work right.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

As for Sony, they do pretty well for the game DLC, but their rights on movies are horrible. If you ever delete the content for any reason, you have to pay to get it back, no matter what.

In the event that you accidentally lose or delete a movie that you purchased you can re-download it, however, you'll need to contact Sony for a "recovery" download credit.

It's not as convenient as just checking your download records and re-downloading it, but they don't completely leave you at a loss. You just need to actually interact with a service rep and explain your situation.

[ianoid]

M$'s DRM situation is dismal. If they want this system to be more than another Wii, for folks to have one next to every TV, they need to do something to improve this limitation.

I have two 360 consoles, and I am actually discouraged from buying Arcade content in that I'm not totally sure I understand how and where I'm going to be able to play it. And I'm what most would consider serious about gaming. What about Joe Sixpack?

[ProgrammingAce]

M$'s DRM situation is dismal. If they want this system to be more than another Wii, for folks to have one next to every TV, they need to do something to improve this limitation.

I have two 360 consoles, and I am actually discouraged from buying Arcade content in that I'm not totally sure I understand how and where I'm going to be able to play it. And I'm what most would consider serious about gaming. What about Joe Sixpack?

Here's the short version. When you buy content from Xbox live, it gets authorized to your gamertag, and the serial number of the console. So if either of those two items is present, the DLC will be considered "activated".

If you recover your profile on to another 360 and download the game again, it will be "active". If your wife uses her gamertag (different from the one that purchased the content) on the xbox it was purchased on, it too will be considered "active".

Now let's say the box you bought all your content on is toast and you're just going to buy a new one. You'll have to be signed into xbox live using the profile that purchased the content. That will satisfy one of the two signatures to "activate" the content. If your wife signs on with her gamertag on the new box, she won't be able to play the content because neither of the signatures is satisfied.

The DLC transmogrifier on the xbox site allows you to change the Xbox's serial number signature for all of your DLC once every 12 months. So now your wife will be able to play the content you bought on the new xbox.

For your example, having 2 xboxes in the same house. The easiest solution is to use a memory card to store your gamertags so you can plug it into whichever xbox you want to use. As long as it's connected to xbox live, all of your content will be active.

If you want to leave one of the consoles offline, you will want to make sure you use that one to download all of your content originally.

Now the reason microsoft couldn't allow unlimited DLC transfers is simple. Imagine you have one person who downloads *all* of the content from xbox live. They pay for it legitimately. Now all you have to do is bring your console over to his house, recover his profile to your xbox, run the license transfer utility and you now have all of the content from xbox live as long as you don't reconnect the xbox to the internet. Then all he has to do is hook his xbox back up and run the license transfer back to his box and now you both have the content. Now imagine he does this for 100 of his closest friends.

This is the short version? Somewhere i have a flowchart. No, really... i do.

--Zero

[ProgrammingAce]

Oh.. i guess here's the short version.

Unless you're on the console that purchased the DLC, you need to be connected to the internet to use your downloaded content.

It's just like steam, only better. Steam doesn't give you the leniency from the purchasing computer.

I don't think that's unreasonable.

--Zero

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Oh.. i guess here's the short version.

Unless you're on the console that purchased the DLC, you need to be connected to the internet to use your downloaded content.

It's just like steam, only better. Steam doesn't give you the leniency from the purchasing computer.

I don't think that's unreasonable.

--Zero

You're forgetting that recent updates to the DRM policy strongly encourage and/or require game developers to tie the console ID number to the purchased software so EVEN IN THE CASE OF BEING ONLINE on an alternate console will force the game to permanently revert to "trial" mode.

Braid and V8 arcade are recent examples of this phenomenon.

(Don't believe it? Download them off of a rescued gamertag to a console you don't own an try to play them and save your progress.)

I'm certain that other games exist and more will follow.

Ultimately, based on my discussion with the gentlemen at Isopod Labs, I've gathered that at the present time - the way Microsoft wants it is that you can ONLY play the game you bought ON the console that you bought it.

Any other current loophole like being "online" on a rescued XBLA account to allow your game to work is only something that we're going to see in the past. Moving forward games will be useless unless you have access to the ID number of your original console and transfer it via a repair by MS or the once-a-year rights transfer.

What does Microsoft stand to gain from this?

Users who have multiple 360s in their houses will be forced to open multiple XBLA accounts (tie more credit card numbers to the service) and make multiple purchases, thus doubling (or more depending on how many consoles they have) the profitablilty of downloadable content and XBLA memberships.

[Iron Draggon]

LOL oh yeah, I'm gonna give up PC gaming and switch over to consoles for this BS... NOT! and this is supposed to be BETTER than PC gaming? ROFL

[ProgrammingAce]

You're forgetting that recent updates to the DRM policy strongly encourage and/or require game developers to tie the console ID number to the purchased software so EVEN IN THE CASE OF BEING ONLINE on an alternate console will force the game to permanently revert to "trial" mode.

Braid and V8 arcade are recent examples of this phenomenon.

I know it's a he said/she said thing, but this isn't microsoft's official policy. I was told it was a bug in the game that the developer would have to fix with a patch. Sega had a similar problem with some of their earlier XBLA titles that they eventually fixed.

There are multiple ways to sign different content. Game saves have one method of signing, DLC has another, XBLA games have their own... etc. There are 10 of 15 different signature methods on the 360, but only one is correct for this situation. I'm guessing they used the wrong one.

Honestly, it sounds like they're probably both using the same method of applying the signatures, and there's a bug in the code.

Even the Braid programmer thinks it might be the way he's using the function call: http://braid-game.com/news/?p=321

Whatever the explanation on those titles, it's a limited incident. I can assure you Microsoft has no intentions of locking content to the purchasing console.i

--Zero

[carlcarlson]

Honestly all of this is one of the reasons that I've never bought any DLC. I can't keep any of this stuff straight, and I don't want to have to mess with it. It's tied to your console, no, it's tied to your gamertag... I own this but I don't? Oi, I have a headache.


LOL oh yeah, I'm gonna give up PC gaming and switch over to consoles for this BS... NOT! and this is supposed to be BETTER than PC gaming? ROFL

Keep it up. I've got my fingers crossed for a banning!

[Half Japanese]

LOL oh yeah, I'm gonna give up PC gaming and switch over to consoles for this BS... NOT! and this is supposed to be BETTER than PC gaming? ROFL

At what point did you give up being anything but a troll?

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

I know it's a he said/she said thing, but this isn't microsoft's official policy. I was told it was a bug in the game that the developer would have to fix with a patch. Sega had a similar problem with some of their earlier XBLA titles that they eventually fixed.

There are multiple ways to sign different content. Game saves have one method of signing, DLC has another, XBLA games have their own... etc. There are 10 of 15 different signature methods on the 360, but only one is correct for this situation. I'm guessing they used the wrong one.

Honestly, it sounds like they're probably both using the same method of applying the signatures, and there's a bug in the code.

Even the Braid programmer thinks it might be the way he's using the function call: http://braid-game.com/news/?p=321

Whatever the explanation on those titles, it's a limited incident. I can assure you Microsoft has no intentions of locking content to the purchasing console.i

--Zero

Well, for the sake of everything that I DO love about the 360, I sincerely hope that's the case.

The guys at Isopod that I spent a week discussing the matter back-and-forth with swore that it wasn't anything code related and that it was likely something implemented by MS after they made their final code submission to the games marketplace.

They seemed to be of the impression that it wasn't something that could be patched ... but I might have been talking to people who were uninformed.

Whatever the case may be it sounds like MS and the 3rd party devs don't have the correct lines of communication open on this issue.

I mean ... if BRAID (one of the hallmark XBLA titles of 2008) can't get a fast patch up for this issue something's not right.

I'm going to get back in touch with Isopod and see if they've spoken internally regarding this matter since we last spoke ... lets see if a squeaky wheel can get some grease.

[Iron Draggon]

At what point did you give up being anything but a troll?

apparently when expressing conflicting unpopular opinions posted in similar ways and styles of the popular opinons expressed by others made me one

in other words, if I can be "flamed" or "baited" in the posts of others, then why can't others be "flamed" or "baited" in my posts? it works both ways

some people here don't understand why I "put up" with modern PC gaming, and yet they don't understand why I don't "put up" with modern console gaming either... but worse than that, DRM affects both just as horribly

however, none of the paid DLC that I own is tied to my hardware... I'm even allowed to burn it onto a disc, which can be copied multiple times... and as long as I never lose my access code, I can make all the working copies I want, without ever having to download it and pay for it all over again... so if this is the industry's idea of "preventing" piracy on PC, I'm glad that pirates are apparently far more of a problem on XBOX360... loot and plunder indeed!

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

apparently when expressing conflicting unpopular opinions posted in similar ways and styles of the popular opinons expressed by others made me one

in other words, if I can be "flamed" or "baited" in the posts of others, then why can't others be "flamed" or "baited" in my posts? it works both ways

some people here don't understand why I "put up" with modern PC gaming, and yet they don't understand why I don't "put up" with modern console gaming either... but worse than that, DRM affects both just as horribly

however, none of the paid DLC that I own is tied to my hardware... I'm even allowed to burn it onto a disc, which can be copied multiple times... and as long as I never lose my access code, I can make all the working copies I want, without ever having to download it and pay for it all over again... so if this is the industry's idea of "preventing" piracy on PC, I'm glad that pirates are apparently far more of a problem on XBOX360... loot and plunder indeed!

Though, as a PC enthusiast you must be aware that several high-profile titles have been victim of very stringent DRM in the past few years, and have been publicly criticized for it.

[FxMercenary]

LOL PC Gaming is fun, but I will never touch a PC FPS ever again, thats why i bought a PS3 and a 360.

First person shooters get hacked up too much. Online Cheating has overrun the PC Gaming community, mainly because the programs are free.

Sure, there are rapid fire controllers out for the 360, but they cost a good chunk of money, and the people who cheat are usually 12 year olds with a superiority complex, and they dont have money.

For example Last Week, I decided to play some Counter-Strike. Every server I went to, there was some guy with 40 kills and 3 deaths, and was blasting everyone from across the map thru walls, or spawning at our spawn point on the opposite team.

So I said screw that, and went to go play some battlefield. Same thing there.

Then I got the itch to play some EQ, and it was overrun with gear/plat farmers from Korea. 10k plat for $1 usd!

Screw PC gaming, I used to love it, and thats why I have a windows 98 gaming machine offline in my retro room with all the greats, like Warcraft II.

Anything new gets chewed up and spit out by 12 year olds with their 1337 h4x.

[Skelix]

Frankie, Castle Crashers does/did that too, the fix around that though is you start the game, its trial mode. Then while in the game log your profile out then log it back in via the blade and all your saved data should be intact.

I know it works/worked in Braid and CC. Dunno about V8 as I don't have it yet.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Frankie, Castle Crashers does/did that too, the fix around that though is you start the game, its trial mode. Then while in the game log your profile out then log it back in via the blade and all your saved data should be intact.

I know it works/worked in Braid and CC. Dunno about V8 as I don't have it yet.

Yeah, V8 is absolutely crippled by this current situation and I spent a few weeks trying out every combination of deleting/re-downloading/unlocking, etc. to find a similar back-door.

The guys at Isopod Labs weren't really aware that that was an issue when I spoke to them, they hadn't developed anything to combat the problem, and despite my thorough explanation of the problem - they didn't say that they were planning any patches to fix it. (they said that they were too hard at work on a PS3 title to go back to V8 for 360 ... must be a small dev team.)

Its unfortunate. I'll have to wait till around July to have any access to the license transfer tool again ... and even then, I don't have a unit with a Jasper board, so there's a strong possibility that I could RROD, in which case I'll absolutely send my unit in for a fast & dirty MS refurb send-back so I don't have to go through this again.

[Kid Ice]

some people here don't understand why I "put up" with modern PC gaming, and yet they don't understand why I don't "put up" with modern console gaming either... but worse than that, DRM affects both just as horribly

And then there are those of us who don't care what you put up with and simply want you to stay out of decent threads.