Another ethics question

[Jimmy Yakapucci]

I have seen in a number of threads here comments about forcing the XB360 to RROD so that Microsoft will replace it. Is this really ethical or right? They finally agreed to repair/replace RROD problems, but if that isn't the problem with your unit, why force them to fix it on their dime if it is out of warranty?

JY

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

It has been noted by people with the technical expertise to make the evaluation that ALL 360s manufactured prior to the most recent versions (and probably those too) WILL suffer from a RROD at some point in their lives, it's a combination of various manufacturing flaws.

Inducing a RROD to get a replacement it may be a questionable practice, but as long as people are just doing it to get a replacement, I don't see the major harm as MS will refurb those units for sale or as replacement units and the users who get their replacement continue to pad MS's bottom line by continuing to make software purchases (which are far and away the most important thing financially for Microsoft).

[ProgrammingAce]

Yeah, even i don't have a problem with it. Between the hardware reliability and the DRM, the consumer is getting screwed. Some of the consoles are already out of the 3 year warranty.

[jdc]

How ethical is it for Microsoft to keep selling those pieces of garbage to the consumer, knowing full well that they're not reliable. I usually don't go for the idea of anything like this, but hey, in this case turnabout is fair play. I'm not an MS hater....my original Xbox is the love of my life.

[Solertia]

The only time I see it as being ethical is when they have a NON-RROD problem, and Microsoft is gonna charge them $100 to fix it, whereas an RROD problem is free of charge. In such a case, I think it's okay that they force their already-not-working Xbox to RROD so they can get it replaced for free.

I don't think forcing a working Xbox to RROD just so you can get a Jasper in return is ethical.

[eugenek]

I don't think forcing a working Xbox to RROD just so you can get a Jasper in return is ethical.

It's not smart either, because at this moment there's no way in hell you will get a Jasper as a replacement.

[Icarus Moonsight]

I have seen in a number of threads here comments about forcing the XB360 to RROD so that Microsoft will replace it. Is this really ethical or right? They finally agreed to repair/replace RROD problems, but if that isn't the problem with your unit, why force them to fix it on their dime if it is out of warranty?

JY

They screwed their customers first with shitty hardware... Turnabout is fair play. I'm keeping to the highroad and not buying in, so far... Thankfully, I have never really been (or felt the need to be) an early adopter. I feel sorry for them though, they walked right into the pit. Completely unaware.

EDIT: (jdc) Is there an echo in here? LOL

[heybtbm]

It's not smart either, because at this moment there's no way in hell you will get a Jasper as a replacement.

Just what I was going to say.

[ProgrammingAce]

I look at it this way; regardless of anything else, microsoft made an unreliable product. There is a signifigant chance that the product will self-destruct while the system is still actively being supported.

Right now, the burden is on Microsoft to repair the console in the first 3 years. Beyond that, it becomes the consumer's burden.

The question becomes, is it ethical for the consumer to protect themselves from microsoft's error before they become responsable? I say yes.

Look at the fact that it took microsoft 2 1/2 years to even identify the root cause, and they only extended the warranty by 3 years. So anyone who's returned a console before say... august of last year is still using a ticking time bomb. You can't be upset when a consumer tries to protect their $400+ investment.

As an aside, yes microsoft has identified the root cause. Yes it has been fixed. No, it's not what 99% of people seem to think it is. And no, i'm not going to go into great detail derailing this thread as to the explanation. It's a topic for a new thread.

--Zero

[CosmicMonkey]

As an aside, yes microsoft has identified the root cause. Yes it has been fixed. No, it's not what 99% of people seem to think it is. And no, i'm not going to go into great detail derailing this thread as to the explanation. It's a topic for a new thread.

--Zero

I await the new thread....

And I agree with others; it was unethical of M$ to sell broken hardware to begin with.

[Berserker]

It's not ethical.

As seen above it is however certainly justifiable by shifting the question to that of Microsoft's ethics, but that wasn't what you asked.

It's not murder, and I personally wouldn't think any less of anyone who did it, but I think we all know somewhere in our heart of hearts that it's not totally on the ups.

[Xander]

IMO it's not very ethical to do so.

But I don't think it's ethical either to sell a massively defective product, and it slightly angers me that companies keep doing this over and over again without facing a boycott.

[mnbren05]

Ethical? No. I can understand it and all but I do not subscribe to this belief.

[Gameguy]

Some kid almost died because of the problems with this system, he wanted to keep it cool to prevent overheating so he put it in water. I know he's a stupid kid for doing it, but still it shouldn't of happened.
http://kotaku.com/gaming/just-add-water/boy-fries-himself-with-hot-hot-xbox-360-291988.php

All systems should have been recalled and replaced with reliable units, not just have an extended warranty.

[Half Japanese]

Some kid almost died because of the problems with this system, he wanted to keep it cool to prevent overheating so he put it in water. I know he's a stupid kid for doing it, but still it shouldn't of happened.
http://kotaku.com/gaming/just-add-water/boy-fries-himself-with-hot-hot-xbox-360-291988.php

All systems should have been recalled and replaced with reliable units, not just have an extended warranty.

This kid should have died or at the very least been sterilized during his stay at the hospital. At 14 years old there is no excuse for not knowing that electricity + water = no, unless you're from some third world shithole.

[TheDomesticInstitution]

As an aside, yes microsoft has identified the root cause. Yes it has been fixed. No, it's not what 99% of people seem to think it is. And no, i'm not going to go into great detail derailing this thread as to the explanation. It's a topic for a new thread.

--Zero

Do tell (in another thread). I'm very curious, so far I've held out buying for hope of a stable piece of hardware.

Oh and yes I think it's ok to force an RROD...

[bangtango]

Some kid almost died because of the problems with this system, he wanted to keep it cool to prevent overheating so he put it in water. I know he's a stupid kid for doing it, but still it shouldn't of happened.
http://kotaku.com/gaming/just-add-water/boy-fries-himself-with-hot-hot-xbox-360-291988.php

No matter how you want to spin it or how unreliable the system is, it ain't Microsoft's fault IN ANY WAY that some jackass kid tossed his system into water. Maybe they'd have to pay a settlement but in the book of all things common sense, they aren't responsible.

For the record, I know YOU didn't say this in your post. I'm just getting the above fact out of the way before someone does say it.

I think it is unethical if someone buys a new 360 off the shelf and immediately goes home and tries his best to red ring it the first night, regardless of what 360 model it is. If you are going to pull that bullshit, at least wait until further into the warranty.

[Jimmy Yakapucci]

To finally jump back into the thread that I started and to clarify it a little more, I understand the extreme dislike, hatred, etc. that many people feel towards MS for their actions regarding the XB360. I was thinking more on the line of an unrelated problem. For example, one of the controller ports stops working; something that could conceivably happen to any system from any maker, simply a part that went bad, as opposed to some big history of problems with that part.

Say my controller port went bad and the system is out of warranty. Would those of you who have no problem forcing a RROD still not have a problem with it in this case?

JY

[ProgrammingAce]

Considering what the root of the problem is, and the fact it effects the entire system, i don't see any problem with it.

Microsoft still hasn't admitted publicly what the issue is, but it can effect any number of subsystems in the console. Knowing what they know now, limiting the warranty extension to just 3 RRoD is preposterous.

Microsoft isn't being honest with consumers, even today. They're giving you the rules to play by. They say that if your console displays 3 rings, you get a free repair. They know full well you can induce a 3 ring error intentionally. I don't really see anything wrong with taking them up on their offer.

--Zero

[p_b]

This kid should have died or at the very least been sterilized during his stay at the hospital. At 14 years old there is no excuse for not knowing that electricity + water = no, unless you're from some third world shithole.

Not good enough for a Darwin award, I suppose...

[skaar]

Hey, if you're getting 3 years of 100% reliability out of a PC you're lucky - even with top notch components. A failure rate is inevitable.

I'd be pissed if I was the kind of person that went "God dammit I didn't get my $200 worth of entertainment out of you yet!" when my console dies. If it's done its duty for a few years and it conks out I'm upset... but hey, stuff dies all the time.

For the cost of the console versus the number of usage hours I've gotten out of it I've gotten a pretty sweet deal for my dollar. I've already bought a second pro to replace my launch console two years after I got it (yep, it died) and a cheap Arcade for upstairs. If one dies... so be it. I'm still not going to be a dick and deliberately break something to milk a warranty. That's like dropkicking a laptop to get a new one under a Best Buy "anything goes" warranty... you're just a dick.

Granted it would be different if I was a lot younger..... I still firmly believe we're in the era of disposable electronics. They just don't last like they used to. But they're also millions of times more complex. So it goes.

[skaar]

Microsoft isn't being honest with consumers, even today. They're giving you the rules to play by. They say that if your console displays 3 rings, you get a free repair. They know full well you can induce a 3 ring error intentionally. I don't really see anything wrong with taking them up on their offer.

Just don't mod it ;)

[Gameguy]

Hey, if you're getting 3 years of 100% reliability out of a PC you're lucky - even with top notch components. A failure rate is inevitable.
If your PCs only last for 3 years, something is wrong with what you're buying. My current PC which I use daily for several hours at a time is about 8 years old and still working fine. The only times it ever had problems was with software issues(like spyware once), and updates that didn't work right(uninstalling that and reinstalling the old stuff fixed that issue). When something goes wrong, at least PCs are user serviceable.

I do agree that most stuff made now is poor quality garbage :) . When I buy something I expect it to last for a good amount of time, I don't just have low expectations and accept it.

I thought the whole point of buying consoles was so you wouldn't have to deal with the problems of PCs, if they fail just as bad(or worse) why not just get a more powerful PC and use that for games?

[gepeto]

The one I recieved over a year ago has been performing fine never had a problem. I also have 2 spare 360's that I got on the cheap. One mfg date 8/5/2007 pro hdmi A guy sold me sept 07 for 125 and a halo system mfg 8/7/2007. A guy sole me for 100 in early 08.

Anyone know what was the failure rate around this time frame for these revisions considering that they are not part of the launch?

[WhatsMyUsername]

I got mine not even a year after release and mine is still working fine. I guess I must just be super lucky?