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G-Boobie
02-07-2009, 05:32 PM
I bought a Wii at Best Buy couple weeks ago, mostly for the novelty of being able to just buy one off the shelf. You know, like a regular consumer product. I then spent about twenty minutes in the Wii section looking for a game or two to pick up.

I already owned Resident Evil 4: Wii Edition(which is excellent!) and Okami(which is borked). I ended up buying Baroque and Super Mario Galaxy, both of which are fun. I couldn't really find anything else worth buying though: there were too many shady brain training clones and Bratz titles to sift through.

Shopping for Wii software is a nightmare. I don't really want to add to the general noise surrounding Nintendo's current gen console, but the amount of shovelware on store shelves is truly incredible: it's gotten to the point that the crappy mini games collections and ported flash games are actually impeding a person looking for something a bit more in line with traditional console gaming. It's a bummer, because I really want to use this Wii I've bought for something other than playing through Castlevania 3 and Secret of Mana again.

So help a brother out: list all the Wii games that would interest a typical 'hardcore gamer'. This is not the place for Imagine Babyz or Wii Music: this is a thread for Metroid Prime 3 and Smash Brothers. As a rule, don't recommend games like Target: Terror, which are very poor games even if they are technically targeted at the core market. GOOD games interest the core gamer, which is why they don't target us with "Carnival Games" too. Compilations available on other systems should be avoided as well: unless you own a stick or a gamecube controller, you aren't going to have as good a time with King of Fighters Orochi Saga on the Wii as you would on PSP or PS2. you're also going to spend ten extra dollars for some mysterious reason.

As people suggest titles, I'll update this first post so people can browse more easily.

NEW RULE: No downgraded ports allowed. If you want to play Call of Duty 5, I don't think the Wii is the best place to do it. I'm making one exception for RE4, since it's actually an improvement over the Gamecube and PS2 iterations.

DISC BASED GAMES

Baroque
Battalion Wars 2
Boom Blox
Broken Sword The Shadow of the Templar
Bully
Captain Rainbow(currently import only)
Castle Shikigami III
de Blob
Deadly Creatures
Dewy's Adventure
Dokapon Kingdom
Dragon Quest Swords: The Masked Queen and the Tower of Mirrors
Drawn to Life
Elebits
Endless Ocean
Endless Ocean 2
Excite Truck
Final Fantasy Fables Chocobo's Dungeon
Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn
Geometry Wars Galaxies
Ghost Squad
Guilty Gear XX: Accent Core (Get a stick. Seriously.)
Guitar Hero III & 4
House of the Dead 2 & 3 Return
Kororinpa: Marble Mania
Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess
Lego Batman
Lego Indiana Jones
Lego Star Wars
Link's Crossbow Training
Mario Kart Wii
Mario Strikers Charged
Mario Super Sluggers
Medal of Honor Heroes 2
Mercury Meltdown
Metroid Prime 3: Corruption
MLB Power Pros series
Nights
No More Heroes
Okami
Oneechanbara Bikini Zombie Slayers
Opoona
Order Up!
Pro Evolution Soccer 2008
Raymans' Raving Rabbids
Resident Evil 4: Wii edition
Resident Evil: Umbrella Chronicles
Rock Band 1 & 2
Sam & Max: Season One
Shaun White Snowboarding: Road Trip
Super Mario Galaxy
Super Monkey Ball Banana Blitz
Super Paper Mario
Super Smash Brothers Brawl
Tales of Symphonia: Dawn of a New World
Tatsunoko vs. Capcom (currently import only)
Tenchu 4
Trauma Center: New Blood
Trauma Center: Second Opinion
Ultimate Shooting Collection
Wario Land shake it
WarioWare: Smooth Moves
WWE SmackDown vs. RAW 2009
Zack & Wiki: Quest For Barbaros' Treasure


WiiWare:

Alien Crush Returns
Art Style series
Bomberman Blast
Dr. Mario Online Rx
Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles: My Life as a King
Groovin' Blocks
Gyrostarr
LostWinds
Megaman 9 (Available on 360 and PS3 as well)
Space Invaders Get Even
Star Soldier R
Strong Bad series
Tetris Party
Toki Tori
World of Goo (Available on PC as well)

shopkins
02-07-2009, 05:38 PM
If I had one I would buy Boom Blox. That just looks like a neat and inventive puzzle game to me, from what I've seen in reviews. Don't take my word for it because I have never been lucky enough to have the confluence of finding a Wii on the shelf and having enough money for one happen to me, but check into it.

Misto
02-07-2009, 05:42 PM
Fire Emblem: Radient Dawn
The Godfather: Blackhand edition
Resident Evil Umbrella Chronicles
Tales of Symphonia: Dawn of a New World
Farcry
No More Heros
Soul Calibur Legends
Alien Syndrome

Those are all pretty good games for the Wii

Nionel
02-07-2009, 05:56 PM
I'd also recommend Super Paper Mario, it's more of a platformer than the previous games, as they've scrapped the random battles, so now it plays like a 2D Mario game with more of a story, the ability to play as multiple characters, and a leveling system.

c0ldb33r
02-07-2009, 06:06 PM
I'd also recommend Super Paper Mario, it's more of a platformer than the previous games, as they've scrapped the random battles, so now it plays like a 2D Mario game with more of a story, the ability to play as multiple characters, and a leveling system.
No disrespect to Nionel, but I absoluely hated Super Paper Mario. It was so boring and lame. The story was stupid, the characters were stupid and the only interesting aspect to the game was the 2D/3D flipping, and even that sucked.

In addition to others in this thread, my suggestions include:
(1) Zack & Wiki Quest for Barbaros’ Treasure - this reminds me of an old PC adventure puzzler
(2) Geometry Wars: Galaxies - if you don't already have the original or its sequel for the 360
(3) Metal Slug Anthology - not perfect by any means, but it'll do in a pinch (don't spend much on this)
(4) Nights - not as good as the Saturn original, but still neat

RJ
02-07-2009, 06:10 PM
SNK Arcade Classics Vol 1- Metal Slug, Last Resort, tons of Neo-Geo fighting games, etc.
Williams Pinball Collection

Icarus Moonsight
02-07-2009, 06:18 PM
Tommo Shooter Collection? You mean Milestone? It's Ultimate Shooting Collection on the shelf here... Don't tell me I'm missing a recent Shmup release... that just doesn't happen! LOL

Don't forget Castle Shikigami III and Blast Works. If you're really dedicated, there's Counter Force, Monkey King and Heavenly Guardian. I found them 3 for $10 each or less.

I don't think I have to remind the Boobie about Orochi Saga, but I will anyway. :)

G-Boobie
02-07-2009, 06:21 PM
Tommo Shooter Collection? You mean Milestone? It's Ultimate Shooting Collection on the shelf here... Don't tell me I'm missing a recent Shmup release... that just doesn't happen! LOL

Castle Shikigami III is another.

I have indeed screwed up, Master Moonsight. I was referring to the Ultimate Shooting Collection.

Fixed!

hellfire
02-07-2009, 06:25 PM
mario strikers charged is really fun

Xexyz
02-07-2009, 06:52 PM
Shame on you guys for not mentioning Wario Land: Shake It! yet. Fantastic side-scrolling platformer that plays much like the previous Wario Land GB games. It actually shares a lot of structural similarity with Wario Land 4, but is a much better and more fleshed out experience.

Other suggestions:

The House of the Dead: Overkill
Ghost Squad
Trauma Center: Second Opinion
Trauma Center: New Blood
Guilty Gear XX: Accent Core
Dewy's Adventure
Dragon Quest Swords: The Masked Queen and the Tower of Mirrors
Rygar: The Battle of Argus (personally I'd wait on this one to go on clearance, but that's because I own and played the PS2 version multiple times already)

izarate
02-07-2009, 07:32 PM
Not exactly "hardcore" but this isn't showelware either:

Alien Syndrome
Animal Crossing City Folk
Another Code R
Arc Rise Fantasia
Baroque
Batallion Wars 2
BlastWorks
Bloom Box
Boom Box
Broken Sword The Shadow of the Templar
Bully
Captain Rainbow
Castle of Shikigami III
Castlevania Judgment
Cursed Mountain
DBZ Tenkaichi 2
DBZ Tenkaichi 3
de Blob
Deadly Creatures
Dewy's Adventure
Disaster: Day of Crisis
Dokapon Kingdom
DK Jungle Beat
Dragon Quest Swords
Dragon Quest X
Drawn to Life
Endless Ocean
Endless Ocean 2
Elebits
Excite Truck
Fatal Frame 4
Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles Echoes of Time
Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles The Crystal Bearers
Final Fantasy Fables Chocobo's Dungeon
Fire Emblem
Fragile
Geometry Wars Galaxies
Ghost Squad
Guilty Gear XX Core Plus
Guitar Hero III
Harvest Moon Tree of Tranquility
Harvey Birdman
Help Wanted
House of the Dead 1 & 2
House of the Dead Overkill
King of Fighters Orochi Saga
Klonoa
Kore
Koronrinpa
Little King's Story
Lost In Blue
Madworld
Mario Kart
Mario Strikers Charged
Mario Super Sluggers
Mercury Meltdown
Metal Slug Anthology
Metroid Prime Wii edition
Metroid Prime 2 Wii edition
Metroid Prime 3
Minna De Kart Race
Murasa: the Demon Blade
Negima Neo-Pactio Fight
Nights into Dreams
No More Heroes
No More Heroes: Desperate Struggle
Okami
Oneechanbara Bikini Zombie Slayers
Phantom Brave
Pikmin Wii edition
Pikmin 2 Wii edition
Pikmin 3
Punch out
Red Steel
Red Steel 2
Resident Evil 4 Wii edition
Resident Evil The Umbrella Chronicles
Rock Band 2
Rune Factory Frontier
Rygar Battle of Argus
Sadness
Samba de Amigo
Samurai Shodown Antology
Samurai Warriors 3
Sengoku Basara Heroes 2
Sin & Punishment 2
Sky Crawlers
Soulcalibur Legends
Super Mario Galaxy
Super Paper Mario
Super Smash Bros Brawl
Tales of Symphonia Dawn of New World
Tatsunoko vs. Capcom
Tenchu 4
The Conduit
The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya
Tomb Raider Anniversary
TLoZ Twilight Princess
Trauma Center New Blood
Trauma Center Second Opinion
Ultimate Shooting Collection
Wario Land shake it
Zack & Wiki

G-Boobie
02-07-2009, 08:32 PM
Not exactly "hardcore" but this isn't showelware either:
[huge list of stuff]

Some of that list isn't even out yet, or is import only. I'll include the imports because of the whole 'freeloader' option, but I'm going to forgo the unreleased stuff for now. After all, if it isn't any good, then it isn't of interest to anyone, hardcore or not.

aclbandit
02-07-2009, 11:26 PM
I'm just gonna say that Speed Racer: The Video Game should NOT be so good, and yet it's one of my favorites. I've not yet played another game which uses the motion sensing controls so darned wonderfully, and manages to be a crapload of fun at the same time.

Rob2600
02-08-2009, 12:25 AM
Deadly Creatures -
I read IGN's review (http://wii.ign.com/articles/950/950897p1.html) yesterday and the game seems interesting. It received an 8.0/10 so far.

The House of the Dead: Overkill -
I read IGN's review (http://wii.ign.com/articles/951/951652p1.html) for this recently, too. The review scores have been very good. 8.2/10 so far.

Tenchu: Shadow Assassins -
IGN's review (http://wii.ign.com/articles/950/950645p1.html)...pretty good scores from other reviewers, too; seems like it's worth checking out. 7.7/10 so far.


Between these three games, plus MadWorld, The Conduit, and Cursed Mountain coming up, 2009 seems like the year for good, graphically-impressive, mature-themed Wii games. (Call of Duty: World at War was released in late 2008, so I'll count that, too. :) )


also, some other highly-rated games that haven't been mentioned so far:

Battalion Wars 2
Lego Batman
Lego Indiana Jones
Lego Star Wars
Pro Evolution Soccer 2008
Shaun White Snowboarding: Road Trip
Tiger Woods PGA Tour 09 All-Play
WWE SmackDown vs. RAW 2009

LostWinds (WiiWare)
World of Goo (WiiWare)
etc.

Check out my Top 30 Wii games (http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=109135) thread to see the highest-rated Wii and WiiWare games.



EDIT: By the way, Icarus Moonsight recommended Counter Force and Misto recommended Far Cry Vengeance. Just for the record, those are very poorly-rated Wii games.

SkiDragon
02-08-2009, 01:31 AM
Is Ultimate Shooting Collection actually available at any stores, or do I have to order it online?

EDIT: The day after I asked this, I finally saw it. I am still debating if it is worth the $30 though.

mr obscure
02-08-2009, 04:37 AM
uh megaman 9 ? thats hardcore oldskool gameplay

G-Boobie
02-08-2009, 04:44 AM
Is Ultimate Shooting Collection actually available at any stores, or do I have to order it online?

I saw it at Target today. Thirty bucks.


uh megaman 9 ? thats hardcore oldskool gameplay

Added. I'd already picked it up on PS3; I forgot it was a Wii Ware title too. In fact, I'm just going to go ahead and add a Wii Ware section. if anyone has any Wii Ware titles that qualify, post 'em.

j_factor
02-08-2009, 05:16 AM
Going for a few that haven't been mentioned...

Medal of Honor Heroes 2 is one of the few good FPS titles on the system. The controls work great, and it's more streamlined and action-oriented compared to most FPS games in general. It also has a light gun style "arcade mode".

Order Up! is very fun, although I'm not sure how "hardcore" it is. It's similar to games like Diner Dash (and Tapper), but more involved. You do both the cooking and the serving.

Sam & Max: Season One is just as good as you'd expect an episodic continuation of Sam & Max to be. Great if you like adventure games.

Wario Ware: Smooth Moves is great, although being the fourth distinct Wario Ware game, you may be sick of them. I, personally, cannot get enough of this series.

I'm saddened that you called Ghost Squad a "very poor game". I had a lot of fun with that one, both in arcades and on Wii. The Wii version has a pretty good set of extras.

G-Boobie
02-08-2009, 07:34 AM
I'm saddened that you called Ghost Squad a "very poor game". I had a lot of fun with that one, both in arcades and on Wii. The Wii version has a pretty good set of extras.

Maybe I should have used "Target Terror" as an example instead... But then again, every game in existence has an apologist or two. And the apologists aren't necessarily wrong either. It's a 'your mileage may vary' thing, I guess. :)

I think this list more or less invalidates the concept that the Wii is devoid of good games for the hardcore crowd, assuming you don't mind sifting through piles of mini games collections and Diner Dash clones.

Rob2600
02-08-2009, 12:59 PM
Some other good Wii games that haven't been mentioned:

Link's Crossbow Training (fun light gun game for $20 or less)
MLB Power Pros series (under $20 on Amazon)
Naruto: Clash of Ninja Revolution series (under $30 each on Amazon)
Prince of Persia: Rival Swords (under $20 on Amazon)
Rayman Raving Rabbids series ($14-$47 on Amazon)
SSX Blur ($10 on Amazon)
Super Monkey Ball Banana Blitz (under $20 on Amazon)



Maybe I should have used "Target Terror" as an example instead... But then again, every game in existence has an apologist or two. And the apologists aren't necessarily wrong either. It's a 'your mileage may vary' thing, I guess. :)

I have Ghost Squad and think it's a fun, polished (albeit short) arcade light gun game. Sega did a good job. Amazon sells it new for $22, which I think is the right price for a game like this.



I'm just going to go ahead and add a Wii Ware section. if anyone has any Wii Ware titles that qualify, post 'em.

These WiiWare games have received good ratings:

Art Style series
Block Breaker Deluxe
Bomberman Blast
Dr. Mario Online Rx
Groovin' Blocks
Gyrostarr
LostWinds
MaBoShi: The Three Shape Arcade
Mega Man 9
Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles: My Life as a King
Strong Bad series
Tetris Party
Toki Tori
World of Goo

j_factor
02-08-2009, 03:02 PM
Maybe I should have used "Target Terror" as an example instead... But then again, every game in existence has an apologist or two. And the apologists aren't necessarily wrong either. It's a 'your mileage may vary' thing, I guess. :)

The only people who like Target Terror like it in a "so bad it's good" kind of way. I'm one of those people, but I wouldn't necessarily recommend it.

But yeah, I thought most people liked Ghost Squad.

TurboGenesis
02-08-2009, 04:02 PM
I have note seen it mention yet but for Wii ware:

Star Soldier R

Awesome game… excellent game focusing on hi-score play!

G-Boobie
02-08-2009, 04:31 PM
Link's Crossbow Training (fun light gun game for $20 or less)
MLB Power Pros series (under $20 on Amazon)
Naruto: Clash of Ninja Revolution series (under $30 each on Amazon)
Prince of Persia: Rival Swords (under $20 on Amazon)
Rayman Raving Rabbids series ($14-$47 on Amazon)
SSX Blur ($10 on Amazon)
Super Monkey Ball Banana Blitz (under $20 on Amazon)

Added, except for the titles in bold. Rival Swords is apparently a port of the PSP version of Prince of Persia: Twin Thrones with added wagglechucks. You can get it better elsewhere.

SSX Blur is very poorly rated, and when I played it a year or two ago, I absolutely hated it. If the good folk of DP think I'm wrong, I'll add it... But only under duress.

Wii Ware titles added.


The only people who like Target Terror like it in a "so bad it's good" kind of way. I'm one of those people, but I wouldn't necessarily recommend it.

But yeah, I thought most people liked Ghost Squad.

I submit to the will of the people. Ghost Squad is added to the list, and has been replaced by Target Terror in the snarky rules section.


I have note seen it mention yet but for Wii ware:

Star Soldier R

Awesome game… excellent game focusing on hi-score play!

Added.

Rob2600
02-08-2009, 04:45 PM
Rival Swords is apparently a port of the PSP version of Prince of Persia: Twin Thrones with added wagglechucks. You can get it better elsewhere.

SSX Blur is very poorly rated, and when I played it a year or two ago, I absolutely hated it. If the good folk of DP think I'm wrong, I'll add it... But only under duress.

I didn't know that about PoP:Rival Swords. Thanks for the info.

SSX Blur received a 7.4/10 overall...not as good as Shaun White Snowboarding, but still worth checking out for $10 (on Amazon). If you hated it though, then obviously don't bother, but some others might like it.


EDIT: By the way, I know it's a pain in the neck, but it'd be great if you could alphabetize the lists in the original post. It'd make looking through them a lot more convenient!

Game Freak
02-08-2009, 04:47 PM
Art Style: Rotohex (Wii Ware), Red Steel, and Rampage: Total Destruction

EDIT - I second that request Rob

G-Boobie
02-08-2009, 04:54 PM
EDIT: By the way, I know it's a pain in the neck, but it'd be great if you could alphabetize the lists in the original post. It'd make looking through them a lot more convenient!


Art Style: Rotohex (Wii Ware), Red Steel, and Rampage: Total Destruction

EDIT - I second that request Rob

OK. I have to run to work to fix something for the weekend crew, but I'll try and alphabetize the list later tonight. I probably should have taken care of that from the get go...

Rob2600
02-08-2009, 05:09 PM
MaBoShi: The Three Shape Arcade (WiiWare) has received great reviews and shouldn't be overlooked.

Metacritic - MaBoShi: The Three Shape Arcade (http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/wii/maboshithethreeshapearcade?q=MaBoShi:%20The%20Thre e%20Shape%20Arcade)

G-Boobie
02-08-2009, 08:21 PM
Thanks go to Rob2600 for alphabetizing the list while I was at work!

Rob2600
02-08-2009, 11:30 PM
Thanks go to Rob2600 for alphabetizing the list while I was at work!

You're welcome. Any time!

j_factor
02-09-2009, 12:16 AM
By the way, isn't Orochi Saga actually better on the Wii? According to this thread (http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=126406) the PS2 version has serious problems. And the PSP d-pad is far too shitty IMO, such that I don't think anyone should even consider it.

G-Boobie
02-09-2009, 03:11 AM
By the way, isn't Orochi Saga actually better on the Wii? According to this thread (http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=126406) the PS2 version has serious problems. And the PSP d-pad is far too shitty IMO, such that I don't think anyone should even consider it.

I'm pretty sure that all the SNK compilations are borked, regardless of the platform. I know the Metal Slug Anthology is just as bad on Wii as it is on PS2 and PSP in regards to slowdown and weird glitches. Same with the SNK Arcade Classics vol. 1. It's just shady emulation, and it's ten bucks pricier too.

Aside from the emulation quality, there's the issue of control. Not everyone has a classic controller or Gamecube controller: I can't imagine that a game designed for a stick or D-pad is going to be much fun utilizing das wagglechucks.

But, as this thread has born witness to several times already, I could be wrong. Has anyone played the Orochi Saga on Wii yet? How does it compare to the PS2 and PSP versions? Can we get a witness?

j_factor
02-09-2009, 04:57 AM
For what it's worth, the one review of the Wii version on Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/King-Fighters-Collection-Orochi-Saga/review/product/B001EN3YV4/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1) says, "Unlike the PS2 and PSP versions, there is no loading between fights, even in KoF 98. Also the games run smooth as silk, with no lag or slowdown." This review (http://www.gamerstemple.com/vg/games47/004995/004995r01.asp) makes a similar statement about the loading but doesn't say anything about slowdown. I just noticed that in that other thread, Rob2600 chimed in with a different review that made similar statements. Yeesh.

Price isn't really an issue IMO because they'll both be the same price eventually.

The controller is an issue, but if you're into fighting games, that's really par for the course. I would never recommend anyone try to seriously play fighters on a stock PS2 pad either. Consoles not named Saturn or Genesis require the purchase of a special controller if you really want to enjoy your fighting games. I mean, aren't most people buying one of those special SF4 controllers if they don't already own a similar pad or arcade stick?

kingpong
02-09-2009, 08:46 AM
There are only 2 worthwhile hardcore games on the Wii - Castle of Shikigami III and Ultimate Shooting Collection. Maybe throw in Sin and Punishment 2, but I haven't tried that yet so I don't know if they've fallen into the fanservice trap. Everything else that has been listed is better on another platform or is a core gamer or fanboy level game. Not that all of them are bad, but they're certainly not hardcore.

I would include Blast Works, but the hardcore gamer has been playing the original, superior PC versions for years. That all the hardcore games on the Wii are shmups is an interesting coincidence, but that doesn't mean shmup = hardcore or vice versa.

TurboGenesis
02-09-2009, 04:12 PM
There are only 2 worthwhile hardcore games on the Wii - Castle of Shikigami III and Ultimate Shooting Collection. Maybe throw in Sin and Punishment 2, but I haven't tried that yet so I don't know if they've fallen into the fanservice trap. Everything else that has been listed is better on another platform or is a core gamer or fanboy level game. Not that all of them are bad, but they're certainly not hardcore.

I would include Blast Works, but the hardcore gamer has been playing the original, superior PC versions for years. That all the hardcore games on the Wii are shmups is an interesting coincidence, but that doesn't mean shmup = hardcore or vice versa.

Well, Ultimate Shooting Collection has better ports of all which are on Dreamcast… and the Japanese Milestone Shooting Collection lack TATE - :shameful:
And since Xbox 360 has better arcade sticks plus achievements, Shikigami III could be better served on the 360.

koster
02-09-2009, 06:28 PM
Koronrinpa
Typo - this should be Kororinpa (or Kororinpa: Marble Mania if you want to be anal about it... :))

And Marble Saga Kororinpa is set for release next month.

G-Boobie
02-09-2009, 11:32 PM
There are only 2 worthwhile hardcore games on the Wii - Castle of Shikigami III and Ultimate Shooting Collection. Maybe throw in Sin and Punishment 2, but I haven't tried that yet so I don't know if they've fallen into the fanservice trap. Everything else that has been listed is better on another platform or is a core gamer or fanboy level game. Not that all of them are bad, but they're certainly not hardcore.

I would include Blast Works, but the hardcore gamer has been playing the original, superior PC versions for years. That all the hardcore games on the Wii are shmups is an interesting coincidence, but that doesn't mean shmup = hardcore or vice versa.

I think we have different ideas of what I mean by 'hardcore'. What your definition implies are games that only a tiny, niche demographic enjoys: in the case of your example, fans of bullet hell shooters and Treasure games. What I actually mean are games that appeal to the average owner of an xbox 36o and/or PS3.


Typo - this should be Kororinpa (or Kororinpa: Marble Mania if you want to be anal about it... :))

And Marble Saga Kororinpa is set for release next month.

Noted, fixed, and thanks!

kingpong
02-10-2009, 05:58 PM
I think we have different ideas of what I mean by 'hardcore'. What your definition implies are games that only a tiny, niche demographic enjoys: in the case of your example, fans of bullet hell shooters and Treasure games. What I actually mean are games that appeal to the average owner of an xbox 36o and/or PS3.


I would think that the average owner of a 360 or PS3 is the very definition of a core gamer.

Hardcore gamers would be those that have broad tastes and are in search of gameplay above else, having little concern for peripheral things like stories, graphics, and sound, nor any concern about how obscure or mainstream a game is. They also tend to be the ones that follow the news of the gaming industry and take it all seriously (but with a grain of salt), get annoyed by the fanboys, and so on. More controversially, I would argue that a true hardcore gamer would never touch an RPG since they are entirely devoid of gameplay, but that would surely offend too many people who think they're hardcore. It happens that shmups are a generally a genre that appeals to the hardcore gamer, but there are certainly examples that are simple fanservice aimed at a marginally broader core audience (most notably the Gradius series - it coasts along on the undeserved popularity it had during the NES days, rarely offering anything noteworthy and suffering from some severely broken mechanics).

To continue on this tangent, I'll add that nobody whose game playing time is dominated by a particular game or even genre is a hardcore gamer. Fanatical gamers playing something 12 hours a day, whether Halo, Madden, or WoW have little understanding or appreciating of gaming and are not the least bit hardcore.

Rob2600
02-10-2009, 06:32 PM
There are only 2 worthwhile hardcore games on the Wii


a true hardcore gamer would never touch an RPG since they are entirely devoid of gameplay...

the Gradius series - it coasts along on the undeserved popularity it had during the NES days...

Fanatical gamers playing something 12 hours a day, whether Halo, Madden, or WoW have little understanding or appreciating of gaming and are not the least bit hardcore.

So far, you've insulted Wii fans, RPG fans, Gradius fans, Halo fans, Madden fans, and World of Warcraft fans, all within two posts. Way to go!

jupitersj
02-10-2009, 06:37 PM
I would think that the average owner of a 360 or PS3 is the very definition of a core gamer.

Hardcore gamers would be those that have broad tastes and are in search of gameplay above else, having little concern for peripheral things like stories, graphics, and sound, nor any concern about how obscure or mainstream a game is. They also tend to be the ones that follow the news of the gaming industry and take it all seriously (but with a grain of salt), get annoyed by the fanboys, and so on. More controversially, I would argue that a true hardcore gamer would never touch an RPG since they are entirely devoid of gameplay, but that would surely offend too many people who think they're hardcore. It happens that shmups are a generally a genre that appeals to the hardcore gamer, but there are certainly examples that are simple fanservice aimed at a marginally broader core audience (most notably the Gradius series - it coasts along on the undeserved popularity it had during the NES days, rarely offering anything noteworthy and suffering from some severely broken mechanics).

To continue on this tangent, I'll add that nobody whose game playing time is dominated by a particular game or even genre is a hardcore gamer. Fanatical gamers playing something 12 hours a day, whether Halo, Madden, or WoW have little understanding or appreciating of gaming and are not the least bit hardcore.

I'm going to have to disagree on that one...

I have broad tastes in gaming and don't care if the game is mainstream or niche, common or rare...2600 graphics or maxed on my self-built PC. I follow gaming news and fanboys no longer annoy me as I tend to block out all that drivel. I love rpgs/strategy, fighting games, shmups and flight sims. I can remember several 9 hour + full clears raiding in EverQuest(30h+ a week just raiding) and many 8-36 hour stints(ok maybe only a handful of times was it 12+) in my 9 years of playing it.

I look forward to the day I 1 credit a shmup I finally get around to buying.

I'd love to own a cab but my gaming room is only 12x9 ish and it is already holding over 1000 games, PCs, fish tank two huge CRTs and a futon :)

Everyone has their own path and I will never believe hardcore and casual have explicit meanings other than to differentiate between gamers as a whole "generally" as there are too many subsets in the culture to stereotype.