Star Ocean 4: Now with less anime!

[dairugger]

http://gaygamer.net/2009/02/star_ocean_4_coming_to_us_now.html


am i the only one who thinks the new art style sucks??

[roushimsx]

I dig the anime portraits but I dig consistency between the portraits and the ingame artwork a bit more. Maybe if the character artwork was a bit more anime-ish (like, say, the Tales of series) then I'd prefer the Japanese releases' interface, but in this case I think it worked out ok for us in the US.

[skaar]

That is lame as hell.

[Sudo]

It's completely idiotic. Changing to CG isn't going to convince Joe six-pack who only plays Halo and Madden to give this game a second glance on the store shelf at Wal Mart. This is only going to annoy their existing fans who were already planning on purchasing the game. As if this weren't annoying enough, they're also removing the onsen scene from the game because "Americans wouldn't understand it" and they were afraid of getting an M rating.

[TonyTheTiger]

I don't have any particular love for the cartoon drawings nor do I dislike the CG portraits. I actually think they're very well done. But this is just surprising to me. Talk about a throw back to the 8 bit era. It just feels unnecessary and slightly archaic. These taboos were already on the decline by the mid to late 90s and went completely out the window when Final Fantasy VII became a smash hit. In fact, I'd go so far as to say the trend started to reverse a few years back when anime became the "in" thing with the Dragonball Z boom and the like.

[Kitsune Sniper]

I ask again, why won't they make this optional? I prefer the Japanese versions, the US artwork clashes with the game...

[Gabriel]

http://gaygamer.net/2009/02/star_ocean_4_coming_to_us_now.html


am i the only one who thinks the new art style sucks??

All I knew about were the "new style" visuals. I was about to buy the game based off that alone. So, no. I definitely don't think it sucks.

I decided to skip the game because I did a little research by playing a bit of previous games in the series, and found I didn't like the franchise's typical formula or the combat system the game is alleged to have.

[heybtbm]

Talk about a "big" deal over nothing...

http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/8686/starjpnna1ir3.jpg

I prefer the US version. If the characters are rendered in Anime in the actual game (recent example: Tales of Vesperia), then the character portraits should reflect that. Obviously, the character portraits in the US version match this game's art style. What's the big deal?

For the people that have been following this game, you'll notice there is little "outrage" or even concern from fans. JRPG fans don't really care. Probably because the US version actually looks better to most of us.

[JunkTheMagicDragon]

as a jrpg player who has no love for the anime art style, i welcome the change. no, having anime portraits wouldn't make me not buy the game, but it would irritate me having to look at them all the time.

don't see how a toggle option would hurt them, though.

of what should be of concern, that no one is raising a fuss about is the fact the this is 2009, and the devs are still using the tired old 'text box with portrait' dialog presentation. and japanese devs wonder why they're being left in the dust.

[TonyTheTiger]

Regardless of whether or not the redesign looks better (and a hell of an argument can be made that it does), it's still a pretty strange choice.

[Fuyukaze]

I'd be more likely to give a damn if the game was for anything I owned. As such, they could give it the GTA/Madden treatment and I still wouldnt care. After SO3, the series didnt feel the same.

[Letiumtide]

While I'm not personally pleased with it, I will give it a nod for a much more fluid feel throughout the game.

I guess the real truth is though I'd rather it be entirely cell-shaded with the anime portraits. Why?

Just look at this crap.

http://www.rpgamer.com/games/socean/so4/propaganda/so49.jpg

The anime character looks like she could be between the ages of 14 and 18. Whereas the 3D version looks like she's 8... maybe 10? It's horrific and disgustingly wrong.

[Berserker]

Suppose they were taking the opportunity of the separate release to make the portraits and UI more consistent with the ingame graphics? Nah you're right, that can't be it. They must be only seeking to deprive us of its Japanese purity! How dare they.

[Sudo]

I'd be more likely to give a damn if the game was for anything I owned. As such, they could give it the GTA/Madden treatment and I still wouldnt care. After SO3, the series didnt feel the same.

Star Ocean 3 is the last game in the series chronologically, while SO 4 is the first. The whole "4D" thing will not be featured in this game at all.


Suppose they were taking the opportunity of the separate release to make the portraits and UI more consistent with the ingame graphics? Nah you're right, that can't be it. They must be only seeking to deprive us of its Japanese purity! How dare they.

Why would they not just make them CG in the first place if that were the case? Your post makes no sense.

[roushimsx]

Why would they not just make them CG in the first place if that were the case? Your post makes no sense.

To better appeal to the Japanese market, of course. Same reason why they redesign characters like Ratchet & Clank or Sly Cooper to be more animeish when the games get taken over there.

[Gabriel]

Talk about a "big" deal over nothing...


Really, is that it? The faces on the status bars changed? From the original post, I was thinking it was something more far reaching and pervasive.

To tell the truth, the one with the anime faces looks like the modified version. It looks cheaper and more half-assed too.

[AlphaGamer]

.........................

[Sudo]

Really, is that it? The faces on the status bars changed? From the original post, I was thinking it was something more far reaching and pervasive.

To tell the truth, the one with the anime faces looks like the modified version. It looks cheaper and more half-assed too.

No, that's not it. Read my other post, they removed an entire scene from the game.

[Berserker]

Really, is that it? The faces on the status bars changed? From the original post, I was thinking it was something more far reaching and pervasive.

To tell the truth, the one with the anime faces looks like the modified version. It looks cheaper and more half-assed too.

It's that it was changed. That's all the huffing is about, regardless of how insignificant the change was. It's one way over there, it's another way over here - there must be a reason for it, and that reason must automatically be bad. Also, the way it is over here is automatically worse or inferior in some way.

It'd be the same deal if the differences were reversed. Except instead the complaint would be about how they're trying to appeal to kids with anime faces while denying us the more accurate realism that's enjoyed in the Japanese version.

With the "removed scene", same deal. If the shoe were on the other foot, the issue would be that they added useless fluff to cater to Western audiences (which is, of course, bad). That perhaps it was removed because it pertained to some obscure particular of Japanese culture that simply isn't translatable in a way that anyone outside of Japan would remotely understand, is a notion that's not considered. They're changing something, they're removing something, so they're depriving us of some part of that Japanese purity. End of story.

[Sudo]

It's that it was changed. That's all the huffing is about, regardless of how insignificant the change was. It's one way over there, it's another way over here - there must be a reason for it, and that reason must automatically be bad. Also, the way it is over here is automatically worse or inferior in some way.

It'd be the same deal if the differences were reversed. Except instead the complaint would be about how they're trying to appeal to kids with anime faces while denying us the more accurate realism that's enjoyed in the Japanese version.

With the "removed scene", same deal. If the shoe were on the other foot, the issue would be that they added useless fluff to cater to Western audiences (which is, of course, bad). That perhaps it was removed because it pertained to some obscure particular of Japanese culture that simply isn't translatable in a way that anyone outside of Japan would remotely understand, is a notion that's not considered. They're changing something, they're removing something, so they're depriving us of some part of that Japanese purity. End of story.

Just because you don't understand it doesn't mean that other people don't. Last time I checked, we had hot tubs and steam rooms here in the US, as well. Plenty of other JRPGs and anime contain onsen scenes, which many people who purchase the game will have seen and played. You making broad generalizations and patronizing comments just goes to show you have no interest in the subject matter and aren't taking it seriously. People who buy JRPGs are a specific group, and they know what they're getting when they buy them. This move by Square-Enix's USA division just shows that they don't know their fanbase at all. I'm beginning to think that Atlus is the only JRPG publisher who does. They go to great lengths to keep games as close to the original version as possible, such as including honorifics in the dialogue of many games and giving out pre-order bonuses (everyone who buys SO 4 in Japan gets a free faceplate, and it's not even available here).

[Gabriel]

They're changing something, they're removing something, so they're depriving us of some part of that Japanese purity. End of story.

Oh. I understand. I've been a console and RPG gamer for a long time. And I've been an anime fan for just as long. I'm well accustomed to the cult of everything-is-better-in-Japan.

[hbkprm]

im a big fan of anime

[TonyTheTiger]

I'm beginning to think that Atlus is the only JRPG publisher who does. They go to great lengths to keep games as close to the original version as possible, such as including honorifics in the dialogue of many games

That's not a particularly good thing, especially if the setting of the game isn't one where Japanese honorifics would normally be used. To a non Japanese audience, seeing a decidedly European knight, speaking English the entire time, all of a sudden call his king "-sama" instead of "my liege" would be jarring as hell. Good localization is more than just literal translation.

To be perfectly clear, I don't think the CG portraits look bad at all. I actually like them a lot. I just think the change was unnecessary considering we are in 2009 and not 1990 when something like this would be expected. As for editing out a bath scene...I don't know. It might be to avoid an M rating but Square-Enix has done far more risque stuff in the FF series and always pulled a T. And I can think of at least two or three other games with bath/shower scenes that got a T. So this does sound more like making the game less "Japanese" than it does for rating purposes. But, forgive me for sounding like a broken record, that doesn't make a whole lot of sense in a generation where anime has not only been accepted but outright celebrated. I'm not upset at the changes. I'm more confused than anything else. If this were pre-DBZ hysteria and pre-FFVII fanfare I might see where they were going with this. In February 2009, however, it just makes me go "WTF?"

[Sudo]

That's not a particularly good thing, especially if the setting of the game isn't one where Japanese honorifics would normally be used. To a non Japanese audience, seeing a decidedly European knight, speaking English the entire time, all of a sudden call his king "-sama" instead of "my liege" would be jarring as hell. Good localization is more than just literal translation.

To be perfectly clear, I don't think the CG portraits look bad at all. I actually like them a lot. I just think the change was unnecessary considering we are in 2009 and not 1990 when something like this would be expected. As for editing out a bath scene...I don't know. It might be to avoid an M rating but Square-Enix has done far more risque stuff in the FF series and always pulled a T. And I can think of at least two or three other games with bath/shower scenes that got a T. So this does sound more like making the game less "Japanese" than it does for rating purposes. But, forgive me for sounding like a broken record, that doesn't make a whole lot of sense in a generation where anime has not only been accepted but outright celebrated. I'm not upset at the changes. I'm more confused than anything else. If this were pre-DBZ hysteria and pre-FFVII fanfare I might see where they were going with this. In February 2009, however, it just makes me go "WTF?"

I agree with you on that. They've used them in Persona 3 and 4, which are both set in Japan and are especially Japanese games. In those two games specifically, honorifics are appropriate, IMO. In others, they might not be a good fit.

[Xander]

I am against all kind of alteration of an original game to 'localize' it. I am french, and we see it a lot when they adapt US shows for our market, and it always sucks.

Same for games. Let us enjoy the real experience, do not overdo it.

[TonyTheTiger]

I agree with you on that. They've used them in Persona 3 and 4, which are both set in Japan and are especially Japanese games. In those two games specifically, honorifics are appropriate, IMO. In others, they might not be a good fit.

I suppose in those games it could be at least justifiable but I still question the benefit of doing it. English speakers never use "-san," "-chan," "-sama," etc. So if something is written in English, regardless of the setting, it still comes off as awkward. What sounds more appropriate in English? "We will be heading home, Yamashita-sama" vs. "We will be heading home, Mr. Yamashita." I don't think injecting the quirks and idiosyncrasies of the source language into the target language is all that helpful. When people are running around speaking English but tossing in Japanese honorifics you sort of lose the "spirit" of the sequence. Rather than coming off as just respectful as was originally intended, everyone starts to sound like freaking otaku. I think the best translations/localizations are the ones that don't constantly remind you that it was translated/localized.


I am against all kind of alteration of an original game to 'localize' it. I am french, and we see it a lot when they adapt US shows for our market, and it always sucks.

Same for games. Let us enjoy the real experience, do not overdo it.

Tell me if this is a strawman but does that mean you'd be against this situation:

In Magic Knight Rayearth, the character Caldina originally was written with a specific accent from a particular region of Japan. The characters even point this out at one point. When it was translated to English they gave Caldina a southern accent and had the characters point that out instead. Are you saying that it would have been better to have English speaking characters point out that another English speaking character was speaking with an accent from a region of Japan?

One thing I find extremely awkward, and it happens in more than one anime, is when the characters are speaking English but constantly make references to how they're speaking "Japanese." I realize this is a big problem for translators. If you have an anime where the characters are in an English class, there's extremely basic English written on the board, and they're complaining about why they have to learn English and why they can't just speak in plain Japanese, what the hell do you do? If you play it straight you end up with a bunch of dialogue that hangs a lampshade on the fact that it was translated and you have to force the audience to think "Ok, I'm hearing English but have to imagine that I'm hearing Japanese." The alternative is to change things around and deal with the flames from the purists who complain about the changes. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. That's why I think the anime that are said to have some of the best dubs are the ones that are decidedly more "western" such as Cowboy Bebop. You don't run into those problems there.

I think that there's a fine balance. At some point a translator has three options: translate it literally and risk having it not make sense in the target language, substitute the closest equivalent in the target language, or bullshit your way through it.

Hell, once in a while, the translation, even though far from the original dialogue, ends up being superior. There's a scene near the tail end of Dragonball Z where Goku is trying to convince Vegeta to fuse with him. The original Japanese more or less was just Goku saying "We need more power, let's get more power." The English translation had Goku say, "The Saiyans are gone. Our old race is dead. Let's fight to protect our new one."

[carlcarlson]

I welcome the change. To me it makes more sense than the original anime version. That would bug me.

[exit]

OK let me get this straight. The "Original" portraits are 2D and look nothing whats being displayed, which ends up being somewhat distracting. The "New" portraits matches the action that is going on, thus ends up being a lot less distracting.

I fail to see the problem here.

Want to know a real problem? Lets take a look at Ys: The Ark of Napishtim and it's localization for the PS2. Originally the game had hand drawn 2D sprites, but then Sony decided that over here in America wouldn't like that at all. They changed all the sprites into 3D, added a horrible looking CG intro and in the end made the game look a little awkward. What's funny about that is there was still an option to hear the original Japanese voices, which is usually the first thing taken out of a localization.

[Sudo]

OK let me get this straight. The "Original" portraits are 2D and look nothing whats being displayed, which ends up being somewhat distracting. The "New" portraits matches the action that is going on, thus ends up being a lot less distracting.

I fail to see the problem here.

Want to know a real problem? Lets take a look at Ys: The Ark of Napishtim and it's localization for the PS2. Originally the game had hand drawn 2D sprites, but then Sony decided that over here in America wouldn't like that at all. They changed all the sprites into 3D, added a horrible looking CG intro and in the end made the game look a little awkward. What's funny about that is there was still an option to hear the original Japanese voices, which is usually the first thing taken out of a localization.

There's no reason they couldn't have left the anime-style portraits and menus in for those who prefer them, though. The main issue I have is with the removal of an entire scene from the game for the purpose of Westernizing it.

[heybtbm]

There's no reason they couldn't have left the anime-style portraits and menus in for those who prefer them, though. The main issue I have is with the removal of an entire scene from the game for the purpose of Westernizing it.

Depends on your perspective. Maybe they added the scene to Easternize it. The West buys a lot more console games than Japan does. WE are the key audience, not Japan. That even goes for mainstream JRPG's.

[roushimsx]

Want to know a real problem? Lets take a look at Ys: The Ark of Napishtim and it's localization for the PS2. Originally the game had hand drawn 2D sprites, but then Sony decided that over here in America wouldn't like that at all. They changed all the sprites into 3D, added a horrible looking CG intro and in the end made the game look a little awkward. What's funny about that is there was still an option to hear the original Japanese voices, which is usually the first thing taken out of a localization.

The 3d artwork for the main character wasn't at all bad in Ys VI, just "different" from the 2d sprites in the PSP and PC versions. For the US release, there was a code that allowed you to view the original cutscenes instead of the new 3d rendered ones in addition to being able to listen to the original dialog. Sucks that they were both only available via hidden codes, but it was nice that the options remained there for anyone that wanted to utilize them.


Depends on your perspective. Maybe they added the scene to Easternize it. The West buys a lot more console games than Japan does. WE are the key audience, not Japan. That even goes for mainstream JRPG's.
This is pretty much my viewpoint as well. We're the largest market for games right now, especially when it comes to a platform like the 360. They probably threw in whatever they could to help make it sell whatever copies it'll actually sell in Japan, but don't think for a second that they're the primary market. It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest to find that the anime artwork was added for them, not removed for us.

Taking the other viewpoint though, it would have been nice to have an option to toggle between the two. Gotta love options!

[Berserker]

Taking the other viewpoint though, it would have been nice to have an option to toggle between the two. Gotta love options!

The more I think about it, this does seem like it'd be a good idea. I mean, all we're talking about here are a few 2d images, which take up an absolutely trivial amount of space on modern formats. Regardless of which version is "better", the fact remains that they did put extra effort into making this content, so it'd be nice if fans could have access to all of it.

This applies to Japanese gamers too. Perhaps some of them are annoyed that their version lack the portraits of ours?

A more interesting way to apply this for a console game might be to have the "alternate" character portraits/UI as an unlockable of some kind for each version - anime for the one over here, CG for the one over there.

[Aussie2B]

For the people that have been following this game, you'll notice there is little "outrage" or even concern from fans. JRPG fans don't really care. Probably because the US version actually looks better to most of us.

Uh, what? That's not what I've seen at all, and I'm more deep into the Star Ocean community than just about anyone.

For those who are unaware, I should point out that the change isn't limited to in-battle portraits. They also completely redesigned the menu interface, and they removed all the anime portraits during dialogue. It remains to be seen if they'll replace the dialogue portraits with CG pictures, and even if they did, I kinda doubt they'd have as many expressions rendered in CG as they did with the hand-drawn portraits.

Honestly, I'm bothered that all this was changed at all. It would bother me just as much as if the situation was the other way around. It's just totally needless and pointless. Is it so hard to just give us the game the way that the developers intended it? This isn't the mid-90s anymore; we don't need our Japanese RPGs "Americanized". If you've been following past Star Ocean localizations, this team that is handling the series loves to get their fingerprints all over the games. I personally find it very arrogant and disrespectful. They're job is to localize a game, not to make it their own. All we need is a faithful yet natural translation of the script. We don't need every proper noun in the game renamed for no reason, nor do we need the visuals toyed with.

For those who try to make the argument that the new design is more fitting for the game, well, you must not know the series very well. Star Ocean has ALWAYS had hand-drawn anime-style portraits. In fact, look at the recent PSP releases. Their biggest selling point was how they had new anime cutscenes and portraits and such, and now they're trying to strip all the anime out of Star Ocean 4? It makes no sense at all. And even when the series made the switch to polygonal models for the characters, it was still blatantly clear that the models are trying to be anime in 3D form. I don't understand this recent trend of thought that a game has to be cel-shaded to look like anime. If you look at the Star Ocean 4 cast and can't clearly see that they all look like anime characters, well... I don't know what to tell you.

[heybtbm]

The previous anime character portraits had more to do with the technical limitations of the respective systems than a particular artistic style. Older RPG's were forced to use anime headshots because those still images actually looked better than the sprites. It was a way to "class up" the presentation. Now that console tech can make the headshots look identical to the in-game character renders, it's unnecessary.

Either way, it's a matter of perspective. I still say Star Ocean 4 was made for Western audiences. It's no secret that Japan has lost interest in console RPG's and has zero interest in the 360. They changed the core game to fit the Japanese audience. We have the original game, they have the "altered" version. My god...look at the Japanese menu's. TERRIBLE. Goofy "Star Ocean" logo aside, I much, much prefer the US menus.

We have the better version...and from what I've been reading, most US JRPG fans agree.

[TonyTheTiger]

I do find there is a slight bit of irony in all of this. Remember that the original Star Ocean, which until the PSP remake didn't even see a U.S. release, has a fully spoken intro in English. Suddenly the idea that the game was "easternized" for Japan doesn't sound so bizarre a possibility.

As for the alterations to non-cosmetic things like menu layout, that's par for the course. I don't think anybody is against improving the camera or in-game mechanics for the western release of a game that had notable flaws. Likewise, I don't think people are against adding details like the Emerald and Ruby Weapons in FFVII. I don't think anybody was saying that adding those optional bosses was blasphemy because that's not what the original creators intended.

[roushimsx]

If you've been following past Star Ocean localizations, this team that is handling the series loves to get their fingerprints all over the games.

You do know that this localization isn't being handled by the team that handled the previous Star Ocean localizations, right? This one is being handled by 8-4, who has a pretty solid history of always running everything by the original game designers whenever they intend to change anything. You try to make it sound like they're the second coming of Working Designs or something....

Since you apparently didn't know about them, here's a video interview (http://www.giantbomb.com/giant-bomb-visits-8-4/17-77/) and here's a more recent interview (http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=21383). They're ridiculously awesome and dedicated dudes that, if anything, have only improved games through their localizations. Sometimes we get hosed because the publisher won't foot the budget or time to do various things (such as voices for the skits in Tales of the Abyss), but you can't really blame that on the team....especially when they'd previously shown their talent and diversity with Baten Kaitos Origins.

For the life of me, I can't remember the name of the company that translated the two Star Ocean PSP games. Going to have to check the credits again....I do recall that the translator (on the first PSP game at least) was the dude that runs MagWeasel (http://www.magweasel.com/wiki/Main_Page).

edit - just took a look at the credits for Star Ocean 3 for fun and that was done by a totally different crew, apparently in-house at SquareEnix


In fact, look at the recent PSP releases. Their biggest selling point was how they had new anime cutscenes and portraits and such, and now they're trying to strip all the anime out of Star Ocean 4?

I don't normally dump on anime-style artwork, but good lord was it horrible in the first PSP game. Haven't checked the second one out yet, but what the fuck was up with those eyes? Everyone in the game had those freaky hypnotized rape victim eyes. They were unsettling, even by anime standards.

[Sudo]

Depends on your perspective. Maybe they added the scene to Easternize it. The West buys a lot more console games than Japan does. WE are the key audience, not Japan. That even goes for mainstream JRPG's.

Incorrect. JRPGs sell much more in Japan than they do here. For other games, you're correct, but every JRPG so far on 360 has sold worse here than in Japan.


I still say Star Ocean 4 was made for Western audiences. It's no secret that Japan has lost interest in console RPG's and has zero interest in the 360. They changed the core game to fit the Japanese audience.

Wow, where the hell are you getting your info? The Star Ocean series has always sold better in Japan. Yeah, they changed the game that comes out in Japan first. That makes a lot of sense.

[heybtbm]

Incorrect. JRPGs sell much more in Japan than they do here. For other games, you're correct, but every JRPG so far on 360 has sold worse here than in Japan.

I'm not sure what you're talking about. Blue Dragon, Lost Odyssey, and Last Remnant (to name the three I just looked up) all sold more in the US than in Japan. Lost Odyssey sold almost 5x more copies in the US than in Japan. For JRPG's released in both countries, the US sells more copies. It's just a fact. Google it.


Wow, where the hell are you getting your info? The Star Ocean series has always sold better in Japan. Yeah, they changed the game that comes out in Japan first. That makes a lot of sense.

From the prefacing statement "I still say..." in my quote I think it's obvious to all English speakers that I'm giving an opinion. My opinion is that Star Ocean 4 was made for the US. If it sells some copies in Japan...fine. Square Enix made the game for Western audience first and foremost.

[Sudo]

I'm not sure what you're talking about. Blue Dragon, Lost Odyssey, and Last Remnant (to name the three I just looked up) all sold more in the US than in Japan. Lost Odyssey sold almost 5x more copies in the US than in Japan. For JRPG's released in both countries, the US sells more copies. It's just a fact. Google it.



From the prefacing statement "I still say..." in my quote I think it's obvious to all English speakers that I'm giving an opinion. My opinion is that Star Ocean 4 was made for the US. If it sells some copies in Japan...fine. Square Enix made the game for Western audience first and foremost.

The sales data may be true in the case of 360 JRPGs, though it wasn't when I last checked. I tend not to follow sales too long after games release, so I suppose they could've outsold the Japanese versions after a while. At any rate, Square-Enix didn't make Star Ocean 4, tri-Ace is the developer. The changes to the game are being made by Square-Enix USA, the publisher.

[Kid Fenris]

Well, I feel like a huge hypocrite. See, I'm only mildly interested in this particular change to Star Ocean 4, but if Square Enix were replacing the next Valkyrie Profile game's character art with CG portraits, I'd be screaming bloody murder.


As if this weren't annoying enough, they're also removing the onsen scene from the game because "Americans wouldn't understand it" and they were afraid of getting an M rating.

Do you have a source on this?

[Sudo]

Well, I feel like a huge hypocrite. See, I'm only mildly interested in this particular change to Star Ocean 4, but if Square Enix were replacing the next Valkyrie Profile game's character art with CG portraits, I'd be screaming bloody murder.



Do you have a source on this?

I don't have an official link, but I've seen it discussed on a few different forums.

[roushimsx]

I don't have an official link, but I've seen it discussed on a few different forums.
Oh, that sounds like a legitimate source. Same source that says Xbox 360 RPGs always sell better in Japan than in the US, right?

[Sudo]

Oh, that sounds like a legitimate source. Same source that says Xbox 360 RPGs always sell better in Japan than in the US, right?

Way to be a dick. If you actually read my other post, you'd see why I got the sales data wrong. If the other poster's source on the sales is VGChartz like I'm guessing it is, then they're most likely wrong anyway since they pull their data out of their ass and just estimate much of the time. As far as the removed scene goes, if it actually wasn't removed then all the better, and I'll be glad that people were wrong. If it was, then you heard it here first.

[VACRMH]

I suppose in those games it could be at least justifiable but I still question the benefit of doing it. English speakers never use "-san," "-chan," "-sama," etc. So if something is written in English, regardless of the setting, it still comes off as awkward. What sounds more appropriate in English? "We will be heading home, Yamashita-sama" vs. "We will be heading home, Mr. Yamashita." I don't think injecting the quirks and idiosyncrasies of the source language into the target language is all that helpful. When people are running around speaking English but tossing in Japanese honorifics you sort of lose the "spirit" of the sequence. Rather than coming off as just respectful as was originally intended, everyone starts to sound like freaking otaku. I think the best translations/localizations are the ones that don't constantly remind you that it was translated/localized.

I agree on some points, but there are a few that don't work for me. Such as -senpai. "So what are you up to Vaccy-senpai?" sounds alot better to me compared to "So what are you up to Upperclassman Vaccy?"

-chan is another one that could be hard to use I would think. But over the years I've gotten used to it and it's not really a problem for me.

Staying on topic about the whole Star Ocean issue, I can understand trying a different art style to attract people who are put off by anime style characters, but what bugs me is that everything was removed and not changed to an option to pick which style you would prefer.

[TonyTheTiger]

I agree on some points, but there are a few that don't work for me. Such as -senpai. "So what are you up to Vaccy-senpai?" sounds alot better to me compared to "So what are you up to Upperclassman Vaccy?"

That's where I'd rather them ditch it altogether and call him just Vaccy. English speakers don't have special ways of addressing certain people like upperclassmen so when speaking English the characters shouldn't either.

It's like how some anime have a younger female character address an older unrelated male character as "Oniisan." That may make perfect sense in Japanese but if you do a literal translation and have the girl run around calling him "big brother" in English it actually doesn't serve the same function. The tone is altered. And I think the dubs that do it are worse as a result.

Keeping the overall "feel" of the dialogue is more important than keeping the words or phrases themselves. To a Japanese audience, a girl saying "oniisan" is fairly normal. To an English speaker, however, a girl saying "big brother" comes off as weird or at least far more "cutesy" than I'm sure was intended. So the direct translation might be more "accurate" as far as raw dialogue goes but it's certainly not more accurate when the overall intent of dialogue is taken into account.


-chan is another one that could be hard to use I would think. But over the years I've gotten used to it and it's not really a problem for me.

It's hard for me to give a counterexample because we don't have many of these kinds of things in English. But how about this: Fucking as a middlefix. Abso-fucking-lutely. Massa-fucking-chusetts. "Fucking" is the only middlefix in the English language and it's particularly slang. We know the "tone" of the situation when someone uses it but imagine translating it into Japanese or any other language. What do you do? Do you just stick the English word "fucking" into the middle of some random Japanese word when that practice is completely alien to the language? I don't think it would be a good idea to do that.


Staying on topic about the whole Star Ocean issue, I can understand trying a different art style to attract people who are put off by anime style characters, but what bugs me is that everything was removed and not changed to an option to pick which style you would prefer.

As much as I love options, I don't think I've ever seen a game offer something quite like this. The closest I can think of is TMNT: Turtles in Time that let you select between "animation" and "comic" for the color palette. Would be nice, though.

[roushimsx]

As much as I love options, I don't think I've ever seen a game offer something quite like this.

The aforementioned Ys VI for PS2 offered this option.