Locking game-critical content needs to stop.

[G-Boobie]

I apologize in advance. I need to rant.

So I bought Street Fighter IV today, like everyone else in the free world. I picked it up before work along with the strategy guide, which as a quick digression, is pretty incredible. It even has frame data and tier lists. An excellent application of twenty bucks. Strongly recommended.

End digression.

On lunch break, I flip through the guide and discover that three of the characters I'm interested in learning, Gouken, Gen, and Cammy, are unlocks. In order to unlock them, you need to play through arcade mode with various characters. They are not available for play until you've beaten the game. Repeatedly. Not in training. Not online. Not in arcade, or Vs. And Seth, the final boss that you must beat repeatedly? I'm finding him guilty of SNK Boss Syndrome. Fuck Seth. Even on easy.

So you can probably guess my beef, here. In order to access characters, even to practice against them or play them in training, I have to beat the game. How many times? Let's count!

To get Cammy, win with C. Viper. = 1
To get Fei Long, win with Abel. = 2
To get Gen, win with Chun Li. = 3
To get Rose, win with Bison. = 4
To get Sakura, win with Ryu = 5
To get Dan, win with Sakura = 6
To get Akuma, you win with every unlockable character except Gouken. = 10 (you've already won with Sakura to unlock Dan, which I'm pretty sure counts..)
To get Gouken, win with Akuma = 11
And, to get Seth, you need to win with everyone else = 22.

Twenty two times through the arcade mode to unlock characters that are already part and parcel of the scene. Assume ten minutes playing through the arcade mode each time on easy with the number of rounds set to one. Assume that Seth doesn't whack you real good a few times, and that each time through you never lose a round. That's two hundred and twenty minutes, or a little over three and a half hours to unlock the characters you've already bought with real earth money.

Soul Calibur 4 halfway admitted that locking characters is bullshit by rigging the system so that you could buy the characters that start off locked in an hour or so of minimal effort. Maybe Capcom should have paid attention to that, because after three hours of trying to unlock the characters I want to play, I'm a little less than halfway through the list. That means that if I want to play as Gen or even Dan, I have to invest all the free time I'm likely to get for a week or so. That's bullshit. I wanted to play online, and if I want to play online as Gen, you shouldn't make me jump through hoops to get him. I already paid you people.

Lock up alternate costumes. Lock up the sound test. Lock up the fucking ending movies and challenge modes. Do NOT lock up characters in fighting games. And if you do? don't make it a stone solid bitch to unlock them.

/Rant.

[The 1 2 P]

I feel your pain. I hated this on Tekken Tag Tournament on the PS2 because I competed in tournaments at anime conventions. If they didn't have a memory card with all the characters unlocked I was forced to compete with characters I hadn't mastered. That just blows. I don't mind time release characters, as you can always just keep your console on over night, but having to play thru multiple times just to get your favorite character is just, in your own words, bull shit. Furthermore, I thought these developers were gamers themselves. Do they really think this is what we want to go thru just to play their game?

[swlovinist]

I see both sides on this one. On one hand, having all the fighters unlockable from the get go Capcom would get flamed for there being no unlockables. Having it too much work to get unlockables you then have what we have here. It is a tough one, and one that I am sure Capcom thought of before doing. I am sure that there will be a code or easy way to unlock this stuff as time goes on. If not, looks like I will be sticking with the easy ones to unlock and play.

[Nionel]

With SFIV it kinda makes sense, I mean you start with the arcade roster and have to unlock all the characters that were added or made playable for the home versions, though having to play though with everyone is a bit excessive. I personally like having to unlock characters, as it adds to the single player experience, and with this game I'm interested in the story of several of the characters, so I'm planning on playing through multiple times anyway.

On a side note, Seth has SNK last boss syndrome? That bums me out.

[Kitsune Sniper]

At least you don't have to perform nigh-impossible combos to unlock your characters. Or actually get to them and beat them.

*curses at the sprained finger he got while unlocking the bonus characters in KOF XI*

*curses at NeoGeo Battle Colloseum's insane requirements to even get a glimpse of the true final boss*

[Bojay1997]

I understand your frustration, but this is not a new concept and it's certainly important to give players some incentive to actually play through the game multiple times with multiple characters. Otherwise, how many hours would you play a game like SFIV single player? If you could just pick every character from the get-go, are you really going to spend hours trying to access costumes or other content? Three and a half hours isn't exactly a long investment in a game to unlock everything. Frankly, to compete on-line, you're gonna need the practice anyway, so it's kinda like Capcom is helping you out here in a natural way.

[G-Boobie]

I feel your pain. I hated this on Tekken Tag Tournament on the PS2 because I competed in tournaments at anime conventions. If they didn't have a memory card with all the characters unlocked I was forced to compete with characters I hadn't mastered.

Really!? At least SF IV isn't that bad... I came close to losing my fighting stick tonight.


I see both sides on this one. On one hand, having all the fighters unlockable from the get go Capcom would get flamed for there being no unlockables. Having it too much work to get unlockables you then have what we have here. It is a tough one, and one that I am sure Capcom thought of before doing. I am sure that there will be a code or easy way to unlock this stuff as time goes on. If not, looks like I will be sticking with the easy ones to unlock and play.

I see your point, and I see where Capcom is coming from, but there are other, non-game critical things they could make unlockable. Movies, concept art, developer commentary, alternate costumes, etc. etc. etc. Those characters they've locked up? Someone out there mains them. Making them work in order to use the character's they want to use just seems dumb.


With SFIV it kinda makes sense, I mean you start with the arcade roster and have to unlock all the characters that were added or made playable for the home versions, though having to play though with everyone is a bit excessive. I personally like having to unlock characters, as it adds to the single player experience, and with this game I'm interested in the story of several of the characters, so I'm planning on playing through multiple times anyway.

I can even see playing through arcade mode a few times, sure, but twenty two times?

SoCal 4 had it right. If you're going to lock up characters, at least make it relatively easy to unlock them. Otherwise, you're gonna piss someone off. Like me, I guess.


On a side note, Seth has SNK last boss syndrome? That bums me out.

Yeah, your mileage may vary on this one. I suck at counter-throws, and he has a ridiculous shoryuken-style command grab that puts a serious dent in yer lifebar. On top of that, he has a move where he goes all black, sucks you in(which stuns you, unless you crouch), and allows him to have his way with you.

A good friend on PSN had no problems with him at all, which annoyed me since I regularly beat on him in HD Remix and Guilty Gear. So the Seth thing might just be me. :)


At least you don't have to perform nigh-impossible combos to unlock your characters. Or actually get to them and beat them.

*curses at the sprained finger he got while unlocking the bonus characters in KOF XI*

*curses at NeoGeo Battle Colloseum's insane requirements to even get a glimpse of the true final boss*

Word, son. I feel you.

[ScourDX]

This reminds me Capcom vs SNK & Marvel vs Capcom 2 for Dreamcast. You have to earn enough points and beat the game numerous time to unlock certain characters. It was a chore then and it is a chore now. :|

[Famidrive-16]

i doubt seth is as bad as whatshisname from KOFXI

[walrusmonger]

Seth's first round is easy, the second is very cheap. But honestly, Sagat beat me 15 times in a row, Seth beat me twice... something is very wrong.

[heybtbm]

Soul Calibur 4 halfway admitted that locking characters is bullshit by rigging the system so that you could buy the characters that start off locked in an hour or so of minimal effort.

You have to concede that the ease of Soul Caliber IV's unlockable characters was the exception, rather than the rule. Street Fighter IV's requirements don't seem out of line to me.

Hey, look at it this way...they could've made the extra characters DLC only. $5 a pop. Just like Namco/Bandai did with Vader/Yoda in SCIV.

[smork]

Dunno, this doesn't seem out of line to me. I'm actually glad you have to work to unlock everything!

[sidnotcrazy]

Well, to me it isn't that bad. Besides I am sure that someone is going to post save data on the net, and no one who really wants to play through the game will have too.

For me I love playing through the game with different characters, and since SF4 isn't that difficult, it isn't that much trouble for me. I did fight a guy playing Akuma last night so it's not like its going to be anytime before we see Gen, and the rest of the crew.

[JunkTheMagicDragon]

for casual players like myself this is a (slightly) bitter pill. i only play fighters in short bursts with drunken friends (too repetitive to play by yourself, imo) so i never unlock anything. of course, with the reviews this game is getting, the 720 will prob be out before it gets down to the sub-$20 price i'd consider getting it at.

:prays for an unlock-all cheat code:
:ducks flying tomatoes from fighting fanatics:

[G-Boobie]

:prays for an unlock-all cheat code:
:ducks flying tomatoes from fighting fanatics:

I'm not throwing tomatoes, good sir, and I'm a fighting game fanatic.

I appreciate that unlocking characters is standard practice. My problem is purely time. I want to play Gen and Gouken. Getting Gen is easy enough, but Gouken? That's every spare second of free time I'll have for a week. That's on easiest just spamming roundhouse. Between load times, mashing start to skip cut scenes and animations, and the actual fights, it takes between ten and fifteen minutes to get through and defeat Seth. That's excessive, where perhaps Soul Calibur 4 was too easy.

Just my opinion, but it fucking sucks that I have to play as a bunch of characters I don't like just to unlock a couple I'm interested in, and one who's traditionally been one of my seconds(Akuma). I'll get over it, I'm sure, since it's an otherwise fantastic game... It just strikes me as archaic.

[8-bitNesMan]

You have to concede that the ease of Soul Caliber IV's unlockable characters was the exception, rather than the rule. Street Fighter IV's requirements don't seem out of line to me.

Hey, look at it this way...they could've made the extra characters DLC only. $5 a pop. Just like Namco/Bandai did with Vader/Yoda in SCIV.

This is a great point. Give me rewards for playing any day of the week rather than charging me for DLC... That being said, Seth is a HUGE pain in the ass :D

[Daft Punk]

seth = geese howard pain in the ass.

Why cant we just fight bison or akuma like back in the day .

I think unlocking akuma requirements are a joke. All I can can say is the raging demom best be unblockable if Im going through all this trouble.

[sidnotcrazy]

I appreciate that unlocking characters is standard practice. My problem is purely time. I want to play Gen and Gouken. Getting Gen is easy enough, but Gouken? That's every spare second of free time I'll have for a week. That's on easiest just spamming roundhouse. Between load times, mashing start to skip cut scenes and animations, and the actual fights, it takes between ten and fifteen minutes to get through and defeat Seth.

Yeah, load times suck, and this is the first Street Fighter that has actually annoyed me due to the large amount of them. The game is great! A++++ all around, but I just wanna fight. You sound like an old school fighting fan, and I like many others never really got into the 3d fighters as much as I did the 2d ones. So load times are a difficult beast for me to deal with.

[Chainclaw]

In the past, this wasn't so bad because you could just enter a cheat code, or download a game save off the net. Now with profile locked saves, or even worse, system locked saves, it's complete BS.

Smash Bros Brawl was the worst, and if the gameplay didn't suck for competitive play, the system locked saves might have been a huge hindrance to any sort of competitive play.

Another huge problem with unlocking characters like this is you end up getting too good at the game in the process, then none of your friends can beat you, so no one wants to play the game anymore.

[Iron Draggon]

gee, it's terrible that you're gonna have to spend all your free time this week playing SF4, after spending whatever it cost you to be able to play it! :sob:

perhaps you'd rather be waiting a few more months for the PC version to come out, like I am? then you could be complaining about still waiting for it!

[Oobgarm]

gee, it's terrible that you're gonna have to spend all your free time this week playing SF4, after spending whatever it cost you to be able to play it! :sob:

perhaps you'd rather be waiting a few more months for the PC version to come out, like I am? then you could be complaining about still waiting for it!


At what point did you give up being anything but a troll?

Seriously.

[Emuaust]

Well I love the unlock system, offers replay value to a Genre that by nature offers little in single player, SFIV, Tekken Tag and Mortal Kombat Deception are probably the high points to me in the beat em up genre, or at least the three fighters ive put more time into the single player then anything in this gen or last.

[Zap!]

I see both sides on this one. On one hand, having all the fighters unlockable from the get go Capcom would get flamed for there being no unlockables. Having it too much work to get unlockables you then have what we have here. It is a tough one, and one that I am sure Capcom thought of before doing. I am sure that there will be a code or easy way to unlock this stuff as time goes on. If not, looks like I will be sticking with the easy ones to unlock and play.

Why would they get flamed? There were no unlockables in the original SNES SFII, and many still think that was the greatest fighter ever, Whoever started this unlockable nonsense is to blame. They got the sheeple used to it, and now they expect it.

[heybtbm]

They got the sheeple used to it, and now they expect it.

(rolls eyes)

Get over yourself.

[GnawRadar]

Ok, I'm going to add my opinion on this topic. I think that locking the in-game characters is a good thing. For myself, I enjoy playing through the game with every character and getting rewarded for it. Also, you can just set the difficulty to very easy and destroy this game, so it shouldn't take too long. Also, Seth does not have SNK Boss Syndrome, Gill in SF3: 3rd Strike had SNK Boss Syndrome, Gill is harder on the easiest setting in SF3: 3rd Strike than Seth in SFIV on the easy (not easiest) setting.

[Kitsune Sniper]

Word, son. I feel you.

I don't mind unlockable content. Just don't expect me to figure out how to get a 35 hit combo on my own, when the higihest I've gotten to is 25.

Rargh.

[XYXZYZ]

Getting the characters I want wasn't a problem, just set the # of rounds to 1 and set the difficulty on easiest, it's not as but a pain in the ass then. And fortunately I have no interest in getting those super-duper shoto-guys.

What irks me right now is I have to wait until Microshaft decides they want to sell the costumes I want.

[Ze_ro]

I think the worst case of locking I've ever seen was with Vanishing Point on the Dreamcast. It was actually a fun game with great graphics (though the concept was flawed)... but if I recall correctly, you had TWO cars available at the start, and ONE track. Everything else was locked. Some of the fun things you had to unlock included:
Mirror mode (individually unlocked for each track)
Reverse mode (again, each track unlocked separately)
Mirror & Reverse together (of course, separately)
ALL of the two player modes. NONE of them were available from the start!
And of course, all the other cars, tracks, mini-games, etc
That shit really pisses me off. I mean, locking a couple cars and some tracks is fine, but important game modes? Come on, that's just being a dick.

--Zero

[Zap!]

(rolls eyes)

Get over yourself.

If the system is suddenly changed and everyone starts doing this, then suddenly go back to the old way, people will complain. My sheeple comment is meant that people are easily blinded by corporations. Corporations got us used to this stupid thing called unlockables, and we blindly followed.

[heybtbm]

If the system is suddenly changed and everyone starts doing this, then suddenly go back to the old way, people will complain. My sheeple comment is meant that people are easily blinded by corporations. Corporations got us used to this stupid thing called unlockables, and we blindly followed.

That's fine. I just hate the word, "sheeple". It reeks of arrogance and elitism. I could've sworn it was one of the banned words on the DP forum. I guess not.

[Zap!]

That's fine. I just hate the word, "sheeple". It reeks of arrogance and elitism. I could've sworn it was one of the banned words on the DP forum. I guess not.

Actually, it's a very anti-system, anti-elitism, anti-corporate word. The libertarian party and Ron Paul is where I got it from. :)

[VACRMH]

Really doesn't seem all that bad to me. There wouldn't be much to work towards if everything was unlocked at the start.

I don't hear many people complain about Smash Bros and it's a similar system correct?

[djbeatmongrel]

Why are people whining about unlockables. If there were no unlockables in games there's no motivation to be a better player at times. Besides complaining about unlockables you get from just playing the game is even more silly.

I'm not that old but I remember being excited back in my middle school/high school days when i unlocked a new character for perfoming well in said game. Is this concept lost on people today.

Harden the fuck up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unkIVvjZc9Y

[Zap!]

Why are people whining about unlockables. If there were no unlockables in games there's no motivation to be a better player at times. Besides complaining about unlockables you get from just playing the game is even more silly.

I'm not that old but I remember being excited back in my middle school/high school days when i unlocked a new character for perfoming well in said game. Is this concept lost on people today.

Harden the fuck up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unkIVvjZc9Y

If you were in middle school playing an unlockable that's pretty much all you've been used to. But for those of us who are older, SFII for the SNES in 1992 had no unlockables, and that was pretty much as perfect a fighting game as I ever played. There were no unlockables back in the day, and we did fine without them.

[8-bitNesMan]

I'm going to the fridge to unlock a sandwich and a Dr. Pepper. Peace! :)

[djbeatmongrel]

If you were in middle school playing an unlockable that's pretty much all you've been used to. But for those of us who are older, SFII for the SNES in 1992 had no unlockables, and that was pretty much as perfect a fighting game as I ever played. There were no unlockables back in the day, and we did fine without them.

Just because SF2 didn't have unlockables it doesn't mean SF4 had unlockables. I don't know if you've played any fighting games since then but must fighting games have characters you have to unlock by either code or sheer effort, most are the latter.

[Zap!]

Just because SF2 didn't have unlockables it doesn't mean SF4 had unlockables. I don't know if you've played any fighting games since then but must fighting games have characters you have to unlock by either code or sheer effort, most are the latter.

I agree, most of the newer fighters do have new unlockables. But I don't like unlockable characters, and never will. I just feel it's not needed. I don't buy the motivation arguement either. As a teen I probably played SFII more in 1992 than the average teen will with SFIV. My motivation was simply to beat the game on hard without losing a round, while getting as many perfects as I can. Different endings were my motivation.

[ProgrammingAce]

Actually, it's a very anti-system, anti-elitism, anti-corporate word. The libertarian party and Ron Paul is where I got it from. :)

Actually, you got it from the wall street journal... How very "anti-corporation" of you. Good thing you keep sticking it to the man.

http://www.macmillandictionary.com/New-Words/030606-sheeple.htm

[XYXZYZ]

I'm going to the fridge to unlock a sandwich and a Dr. Pepper. Peace! :)

If you don't eat your meat, you can't have any pudding. How can you have any pudding if you don't eat your meat?

[scooterb23]

I agree, most of the newer fighters do have new unlockables. But I don't like unlockable characters, and never will. I just feel it's not needed. I don't buy the motivation arguement either. As a teen I probably played SFII more in 1992 than the average teen will with SFIV. My motivation was simply to beat the game on hard without losing a round, while getting as many perfects as I can. Different endings were my motivation.


So...your motivation was to... UNLOCK a new ending????

Aha!!!

/me cackles and runs off...

;)

[XYXZYZ]

Actually, you got it from the wall street journal... How very "anti-corporation" of you. Good thing you keep sticking it to the man.

http://www.macmillandictionary.com/New-Words/030606-sheeple.htm

Besides, once major news media (the supposed shepherds who lead the sheeple, politically) start using that word, you need to come up with something else. Dumbasses is a timeless classic.

[djbeatmongrel]

I agree, most of the newer fighters do have new unlockables. But I don't like unlockable characters, and never will. I just feel it's not needed. I don't buy the motivation arguement either. As a teen I probably played SFII more in 1992 than the average teen will with SFIV. My motivation was simply to beat the game on hard without losing a round, while getting as many perfects as I can. Different endings were my motivation.

Ok how long does it normally take to beat a fighter game with one character? About 20-30 minutes on average? You mean to tell me you are too lazy to actually play the game for that short amount of time like once a night to work towards a new character? Sure it takes time but if all games came fully equipped out of the box there would be no friggin' replay value. Have you ever thought this was a device the dev's used to actually have the player experience the rest of the game that they toiled over for ungodly amount of sleepless nights for you to hopefully enjoy instead of piss and moan?

Do you start a first person shooter with the BFG? NO! Do you start and RPG with the Ultimate Blade of cutting shit up and and they party max level 99? NO! Do you start a shmup with full powered lasers? NO! Then why the hell should a fighting game allow you access to all characters when some of them are probably so unbalanced for normal versus play?

I hope I never figure out this lazy friggin' mind set of modern gamers. It seems like everyone wants the experience handed to them from beginning to end. Watch a damn movie if that's the case.

[Zap!]

Actually, you got it from the wall street journal... How very "anti-corporation" of you. Good thing you keep sticking it to the man.

http://www.macmillandictionary.com/New-Words/030606-sheeple.htm

I wouldn't wipe my ass with the Wall Street Journal.

[Zap!]

So...your motivation was to... UNLOCK a new ending????

Aha!!!

/me cackles and runs off...

;)

Whatever it was, I thoroughly enjoyed it. I played the hell out of that game and thought I was invincible as Chun Li. :)

[Zap!]

Ok how long does it normally take to beat a fighter game with one character? About 20-30 minutes on average? You mean to tell me you are too lazy to actually play the game for that short amount of time like once a night to work towards a new character? Sure it takes time but if all games came fully equipped out of the box there would be no friggin' replay value. Have you ever thought this was a device the dev's used to actually have the player experience the rest of the game that they toiled over for ungodly amount of sleepless nights for you to hopefully enjoy instead of piss and moan?

Do you start a first person shooter with the BFG? NO! Do you start and RPG with the Ultimate Blade of cutting shit up and and they party max level 99? NO! Do you start a shmup with full powered lasers? NO! Then why the hell should a fighting game allow you access to all characters when some of them are probably so unbalanced for normal versus play?

I hope I never figure out this lazy friggin' mind set of modern gamers. It seems like everyone wants the experience handed to them from beginning to end. Watch a damn movie if that's the case.

I don't recall how long it too me to beat SFII or any newer fighter on the normal level. 20-30 minutes is rather quick.

You can't compare it to FPS'. A fighting game is different. Same thing with classic compilations. I hate it when you have to unlock games. I buy the compilations to play my favorites when I want to. If I want to play game a I shouldn't have to achive a high score in game b. But hey, that's just me. You're entitled to your opinion. Heck, I would probably agree with you if I grew up with unlockables.

[mobiusclimber]

Really doesn't seem all that bad to me. There wouldn't be much to work towards if everything was unlocked at the start.

I don't hear many people complain about Smash Bros and it's a similar system correct?

You haven't seen Yahtzee's review of the Wii game then. Almost his entire beef w/ the game is that you have to unlock characters in order to use them, even in vs. mode. (His point being that he just wanted to play the game w/ his friends, but if he had to spend the time unlocking all the characters then he'd be insanely good at the game while they'd suck at it.)

Frankly, I don't like unlockable characters. Maybe one or two is fine (like the boss, for instance, is a fine unlockable character), but having HALF THE DAMN ROSTER be unlockable is just unnecessary. There are plenty of other things they COULD have made unlockable (story/adventure mode, costumes, endings, nude code, whatever). If there's no other reason to play the game than to unlock shit, then there's something seriously wrong w/ the game.

[Gameguy]

If there's no other reason to play the game than to unlock shit, then there's something seriously wrong w/ the game.
It's a way to make the game seem longer than it really is, that's all. It's the same with putting arcade sequences in adventure games, I just call it "filler".

I occasionally play Street Fighter II and Mortal Kombat on my Genesis, overall they're short games. These days people would complain if the games were noticeably that short. Another way to make it longer is to make it incredibly difficult instead, though people would also complain about that.

[G-Boobie]

Why are people whining about unlockables. If there were no unlockables in games there's no motivation to be a better player at times. Besides complaining about unlockables you get from just playing the game is even more silly.

I don't care if non-game critical content is locked. That right there is your motivation to keep playing. As I stated in the OP: lock up art galleries. Lock up mini-games. Lock up alternate costumes. Lock up the sound test. Lock up the icons, badges, and in-game achievements. Don't lock up characters. People use them in real gameplay, and they're important to people who take the game seriously. My little brother mains Akuma. It's stupid that he has to play for three hours, minimum, to unlock him, in order to use him online... Which is your motivation to get better, by the way.

If I didn't have to play through it twenty two times to unlock characters, I'd have never touched the arcade mode. I bought this game for the online content, as did most fighting game nuts.


I'm not that old but I remember being excited back in my middle school/high school days when i unlocked a new character for perfoming well in said game. Is this concept lost on people today.

Harden the fuck up.

Work sixty hours a week on top of freelance work, taking care of a kid, and keeping up with housework son, and then we'll talk about 'hardening the fuck up'.

I had the fucking time to waste unlocking shit in games in highschool: I don't anymore. A lot of people don't. I have adult responsibilities and obligations, and I want to be able to access all the important, game-centric content that I paid my money for. If all the unlocks were peripheral to the actual GAME BALANCE, I wouldn't be complaining. At worst, make it less of a time consuming bitch to unlock the characters. Soul Calibur 4 got that right, at least.

You speak as if the game would lose all challenge, or dilute the sense of accomplishment it could potentially provide if the developer let you use the characters straight from the get-go. Win a few online matches against Shinblanka and Chunbelievable from SRK: there's your sense of accomplishment. Get all the achievements or trophies. There's more accomplishment. Collect all the taunts and badges. Hey! Yet more accomplishment!!!! Complete the time trials on hard.. More accomplishment!!! It's like a three-ring accomplishment circus up in here!

Jesus. 'harden the fuck up', indeed.

[scooterb23]

I really wish they would have made Ken and Ryu unlockables.

I would have loved the fanboy rage then.

[GM80]

One solitary game has annoyed the crap out of me (in this department) in recent memory: Elebits. Probably the single most impressive and entertaining aspect of that game was the 4-player mode, in which each Wiimote controls an on-screen grappling beam while Player 1's nunchuk steers everyone.

The bad? You couldn't play any levels in multiplayer until you'd unlocked them in single player. That meant you couldn't take the shrinkwrap off the game, pop it in the Wii, and go through the whole story with your friends ... which is precisely what I wanted to do. I ended up grudgingly unlocking a single level for "check this out, guys" demo purposes, then I put it back on the shelf forever.

As for games like SFIV, I never minded unlocking so many characters in Soulcalibur IV or the extras in Dead or Alive. Those seem more like rewards for a bit of work than locking out multiplayer, like Ele-freakin-bits.

[Az]

Same thing with classic compilations. I hate it when you have to unlock games.

I recently purchased Sonic's Ultimate Genesis Collection, and have spent more time trying to unlock the extra games than I will playing them.


If there's no other reason to play the game than to unlock shit, then there's something seriously wrong w/ the game.

I could not have said this any better.

Locked content has now become some sort of normal expectation in a game, and woe to any designer that doesn't include it. Some reviewers even detract from final review scores because of it. Its as if the game itself is inconsequential; its now all about what type of fez your character can wear or a new gold paint scheme for your ghetto blaster.

What do these types of people do with games when everything is unlocked and all achievements are found?



I had the fucking time to waste unlocking shit in games in highschool: I don't anymore.

Amen.

My nephews, age 5 & 7 came over a few months ago. They were playing King of the Monsters 2 on my MVS cab. After defeating the first boss their father congratulated them. The older one looked up and said, "Cool! What did I unlock?"

[djbeatmongrel]

To G-Boobie:

Why play games in the first place if your hands are obviously full with your work and children?

From my understanding all of the playable arcade characters are availible from the get go so you and everyone else are complaining about superfluous content anyways that is technically not essential for the experience.

[Sudo]

I actually like when games do this. Having everything unlocked right from the start is boring to me. If I have to beat the game using characters I might not otherwise use, I might find that I end up liking one of them more than I thought I did.

[G-Boobie]

To G-Boobie:
Why play games in the first place if your hands are obviously full with your work and children?

Uh... Because I like games? They're how I choose to spend what little free time I have. I spend most of my 'at home' gaming time with fighting games because they're pick up and play: I can play in HD Remix or 3S for an hour and not have to worry about finding a save point, forgetting where I left off, or beating the whole thing in one go. It's the definition of pick up and play.


From my understanding all of the playable arcade characters are availible from the get go so you and everyone else are complaining about superfluous content anyways that is technically not essential for the experience.

Bullshit. If the arcade characters were the only ones allowed in online matches, or if only the arcade characters were allowed in tournaments, you'd have a point. Unfortunately, every character in SF IV is a viable character(excepting Dan for obvious reasons, God bless his pink-ass heart).

I'm big enough into fighting games to hang out on SRK, very occasionally hit up GGPO and tournaments, and actually care about frame data and tier lists. Even if I didn't want to play Gen, Gouken, or Cammy, I'd still have to unlock them just to play against them in training mode.

To wax hyperbolic for a second here, it's like unlocking the headlights, windshield wipers and seat belts on your car only after you've driven for four hours.

Minus the potential for crippling injury, of course. That's why it's hyperbole.

I don't understand the resistance to the concept of allowing access to everyone from the point of purchase onward. There are achievements, trophies, badges, icons, personal actions, and ranks to unlock and earn. None of them affect how the game plays, but people still go ape-shit over them. There's your motivation to keep playing if you want to rock the E-peen.

[Iron Draggon]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Half Japanese
At what point did you give up being anything but a troll?


Seriously.

get over it and read the rest of the posts here... if my posts make me a troll, then I'm a troll on a board full of trolls... and your posts are no less trollish...

[CosmicMonkey]

It seems to me people will complain about anything they possibly can.

I'm sure I remember having to unlock characters in Tekken 2 & 3 by completing the game several times. And what about the multiple play-throughs of the evil, sadistic, cheating (etc...) recent gen Mario Karts (DD/DS/Wii) to unlock Karts and characters?


Hey, look at it this way...they could've made the extra characters DLC only. $5 a pop. Just like Namco/Bandai did with Vader/Yoda in SCIV.

Exactly the point I was going to make. What would you really prefer:
- All characters available from the beginning, and nothing to achieve.
- Some characters need to be unlocked, motivating game play.
- Paying hard earned cash for extra characters. People moaned enough about paying for extra costumes. Imagine the reaction if you had to actually pay for Cammy!

[GnawRadar]

Exactly the point I was going to make. What would you really prefer:
- All characters available from the beginning, and nothing to achieve.
- Some characters need to be unlocked, motivating game play.
- Paying hard earned cash for extra characters. People moaned enough about paying for extra costumes. Imagine the reaction if you had to actually pay for Cammy!

I'm sure they'll eventually release characters like T-Hawk or DeeJay as DLC eventually anyway so there is still the possibility of paying for characters.

[c0ldb33r]

I had the fucking time to waste unlocking shit in games in highschool: I don't anymore. A lot of people don't. I have adult responsibilities and obligations, and I want to be able to access all the important, game-centric content that I paid my money for.
I agree 100% with this post.

I paid 80 bucks for the CE. I want to be able to play with the game I bought. I don't really want to have to fuck around with characters that I don't particularly care for just to play characters that I do like. For instance, I hate Chun-Li. I always have. I love Akuma. Why should I have to suffer through Chun-Li just to play Akuma?

And to those that say, "yeah but you'll improve your skills" and "it gives you something to work towards" - listen ... I don't care. Akuma is in the game. I want to play with Akuma. I bought the game. END OF STORY. If I don't want to improve my skills, that's fine. It's my game. If I want to be the worst player on xbox live, that's my choice, and I should be able to do it with the character of my choosing.

And to those that say "yeah but at least you don't have to purchase Akuma from DLC" - that's completely irrelevant. That would also be bullshit. The options don't have to be one type of bullshit versus the other type of bullshit. There's gotta be something in the middle.

As was said, if they want to lock something - lock skanky costumes for the female fighters. Lock risquee artwork. But characters? Give me a break.

[Nebagram]

Say what you want about Soul Calibur 3, it actually did this shit right- unlock it 'properly' or, if you play enough games, they give the characters to you anyway.

Smash Bros nearly got it right on the characters front but there's still too much stuff locked away from the get-go. Having to play for 9 hours to unlock Sonic- who was a major fucking selling point of the game- is just a piss-take of magnificent proportion.

I don't like being told 'you don't deserve to get the most out of the game you shelled out £50 for because you're not good enough'.

[Az]

It seems to me people will complain about anything they possibly can.

- All characters available from the beginning, and nothing to achieve.
- Some characters need to be unlocked, motivating game play.

If there's nothing to unlock then there's nothing to achieve?

My apologies for being a smartass, but shouldn't the gameplay itself be motivation enough to play? Or is that considered all stick and no carrot?

Most fighters that I can think of off the top of my head have a method of unlocking that you're probably never going to do again after you've gotten the goal.

[walrusmonger]

I'm trying to unlock Akuma now, and it is torture playing throught the game with characters like Gen- I had to face Seth 23 times on very easy mode before I beat him....

[whoisKeel]

At least this seems do-able

I know I'll never unlock all the cups for F-zero GX (gamecube). That one really bothers me.

[G-Boobie]

Exactly the point I was going to make. What would you really prefer:
- All characters available from the beginning, and nothing to achieve.
- Some characters need to be unlocked, motivating game play.
- Paying hard earned cash for extra characters. People moaned enough about paying for extra costumes. Imagine the reaction if you had to actually pay for Cammy!

What you've just stated in your post is that the only unlockables that matter to people are characters: you're ignoring all the other unlockable content, which seems a bit short sighted. I've seen plenty of achievement whores in various forums and lobbies, and I've seen some pretty convincing celebrities in Soul Calibur 4's custom character editors.

What I still haven't seen addressed yet is that there is always plenty of other stuff to unlock besides the characters in most recent fighting games. When you take into consideration the achievements, trophies, icons, badges, movies, artwork, titles, and so on in Street Fighter IV, I think you can see that there's plenty to 'achieve' without putting some characters out of people's reach.

Consider also that not everyone buying the game is particularly skilled, or interested in becoming skilled enough to get the two perfects, three ultra finishes, and then beating Seth without losing necessary to unlock Gouken. I should also add that you need to unlock Gouken and Akuma to then acquire Seth.

I never heard one single word of complaint that the only unlockable character in Virtua Fighter 5 was the secret boss. Not one. I think the costumes, icons, and ranks were enough to satisfy even the most hardcore. To assume that allowing players access to game critical content, such as all the characters in the roster, is going to render the game uninteresting or boring is asinine.

[ubersaurus]

I don't get the big deal here. I'm a tournament player. I wanted to get all the characters fast, so I could play around with em before a tourney sunday.

How long did it take to get Gen, Fei Long, Rose, Cammy, Sakura, and Dan? About an hour.

Akuma and Gouken? An additional 30 minutes.

Seth took me until today to get, but that was with only playing a bit each night since the unlockfest the first day. Seriously, it's not that hard. One round, easiest difficulty, 30 second rounds. I blew through it no problem. And if they didn't lock em, I'd probably have never gone through arcade mode!

Locking characters in fighters isn't anything new, and I'm just glad it's not anywhere near as painful as the locks in Capcom vs SNK 1 or Marvel 2 were. I don't really care about extra colors, or taunts, or movies, or any of that shit - I may get it, I may not - and anyone who is interested in just playing the game with their friends probably doesn't either.

Edit: Dan is totally viable in SF4. he may look like a goon, but he surprisingly doesn't suck.

[JunkTheMagicDragon]

I don't get the big deal here. I'm a tournament player.

that's just it. not everyone's a tournament player.

i suck at fighting games. i'm a button-masher. i will prob never have the skills to unlock them all on my own, but i'd still like to have a full roster to play with friends.

:edit:

just saw this (http://www.joystiq.com/2009/02/13/unlock-every-street-fighter-iv-character-the-easy-way/)on joystiq. guy on gamevideos unlocks all the characters using hard kick on autofire (easiest mode). that'd be the option for me.

[CosmicMonkey]

What you've just stated in your post is that the only unlockables that matter to people are characters: you're ignoring all the other unlockable content, which seems a bit short sighted.

Um, no. You were the one who started this thread to moan about the absolute chore of having to unlock the characters in the game.

Personally, I'm looking forward to unlocking characters, costumes and whatever else. I'll be firing up IV as soon as the kids are in bed at half 7.

[ubersaurus]

that's just it. not everyone's a tournament player.

i suck at fighting games. i'm a button-masher. i will prob never have the skills to unlock them all on my own, but i'd still like to have a full roster to play with friends.

:edit:

just saw this (http://www.joystiq.com/2009/02/13/unlock-every-street-fighter-iv-character-the-easy-way/)on joystiq. guy on gamevideos unlocks all the characters using hard kick on autofire (easiest mode). that'd be the option for me.

Yeah, but like, beating everyone in the game requires you to be able to jump in with an attack, do a standing fierce or something, and maybe a special move. I got Akuma and Gouken just by doing jump roundhouse, stand fierce, fierce shoryuken with Sakura, because the computer fell for it EVERY time.

I'm not that good of a tournament player, and I'm certainly not used to SF4. But if you can do the most basic of combos, you can unlock everyone in pretty short order.