The most overrated classic (pre 1984) arcade game?

[boatofcar]

What popular classic arcade game do you think is the most overrated?

My vote goes to Gorf. What do you get when you combine 5 mediocre shooters? One vastly overrated game!

[klausien]

I have to disagree totally on GORF. Looking at it from a modern persepective, it looks very much like a me-too clone, but the mocking voice, blast off on stage one, and fact that you rank up, are definitely a step-up from the games it borrows from. It feels like it has a real progression, unlike other similar games from that time. Very addictive. That said, Galaga blows it out of the water of course.

Personally, I never got why people loved Tron so much. The gameplay is clunky in my judgement. Yes, it has several vastly different screens, great graphics and and extremely cool cabinet, but I just never liked how it played. It could have been so much better. Not that I wouldn't love to have the cabinet, but I would take so many others before it.

[boatofcar]

I have to disagree totally on GORF. Looking at it from a modern persepective, it looks very much like a me-too clone, but the mocking voice, blast off on stage one, and fact that you rank up, are definitely a step-up from the games it borrows from. It feels like it has a real progression, unlike other similar games from that time. Very addictive. That said, Galaga blows it out of the water of course.


I agree that the leveling up and the voice is something that makes the game unique, but the controls and missile detection feel terrible even when compared with other games from the same period.

Of course, it is better than a ton of games from the same time period, but we're talking overrated "classics" :)

[MachineGex]

I own a cocktail GORF, so I am alittle bias. There are better games, but I love the fast action and variety GORF offers. I think it is a very good, maybe not great, but really good. I still love playing it 20 years later. Great game for beginners because it offers so much variety.

The few games I never liked too much were Centipede and Frogger. I know, both are very much loved classics, but I just don't care for them. In Centipede, I just don't feel like I have tight control. I love the roller controller for Missle Command, but it seems too squirrelly for Centipede. Now Frogger is a game I can spend some time with, I just dont think it is that great. I think the control may have something to do with it also. It feels like the controls have a slight lag, making jumps alittle too difficult.

I guess if I played both games more, I would feel better about the controls. It's not that I dont like a challenge. My favorite classic is Gravitar and that game takes some time to get use to the controls. Although difficult, the controls in Gravitar feel "spot-on" compared to the other two.

[NE146]

I totally agree on Tron. That game was a turd even back then.

My vote goes to Sinistar. It's a classic, and it's absolutely overrated. The only thing good about that game is it's atmosphere with nice sound & graphics. But the gameplay (i.e. pushing a stick around, mashing the fire button and hoping you don't get shot) just fell short in comparison to Defender, Joust, & Robotron.

It was the first Williams-developed game that you couldn't really get much better at with practice.

[Bojay1997]

I totally agree on Tron. That game was a turd even back then.

My vote goes to Sinistar. It's a classic, and it's absolutely overrated. The only thing good about that game is it's atmosphere with nice sound & graphics. But the gameplay (i.e. pushing a stick around, mashing the fire button and hoping you don't get shot) just fell short in comparison to Defender, Joust, & Robotron.

It was the first Williams-developed game that you couldn't really get much better at with practice.

Wow, Tron and Sinistar are still two of my favorite classic games today. In fact, every time I am at a classic arcade event, they are where I spend all of my time. I think the audio really sucked me in on both.

[DreamTR]

Dragon's Lair. As much as I like the game, all it boils down to is a movie.

[Bojay1997]

Dragon's Lair. As much as I like the game, all it boils down to is a movie.

I would agree and extend that to all classic laser games. Don't get me wrong, I loved laser games at the time they came out and have a huge collection of RDI stuff, but ultimately, they are very, very basic games that get old immediately after you beat them or watch someone else do it.

[iloveguns]

i would agree on Tron too.. *_*

[Kid Fenris]

All of them.

Except Pengo.

[DreamTR]

I would agree and extend that to all classic laser games. Don't get me wrong, I loved laser games at the time they came out and have a huge collection of RDI stuff, but ultimately, they are very, very basic games that get old immediately after you beat them or watch someone else do it.

Yeah, they're neat to watch, but the gameplay on them is really simplistic. The ones I like that have actual gameplay like Inter Stellar and MACH 3 I don't think should be in the same category..

[Ed Oscuro]

Hmm. Gorf and Dragon's Lair are good choices, but I'd have to go with Pac-Man or Space Invaders first. Gorf and DL are fairly niche games in their popularity - when compared with PM and SI which are absolutely everywhere.

What about Mario Bros? Kanye West aside... (http://www.networkworld.com/news/2009/021909-kanye-west-designed-x-rated-mario-like.html)

SI isn't so bad though (Minivader is pretty cool actually, although definitely for the enthusiast).

[Kid Ice]

I never cared much for Battlezone.

[boatofcar]

Hmm. Gorf and Dragon's Lair are good choices, but I'd have to go with Pac-Man or Space Invaders first. Gorf and DL are fairly niche games in their popularity - when compared with PM and SI which are absolutely everywhere.

What about Mario Bros? Kanye West aside... (http://www.networkworld.com/news/2009/021909-kanye-west-designed-x-rated-mario-like.html)

SI isn't so bad though (Minivader is pretty cool actually, although definitely for the enthusiast).

Why do you think Pac Man and Space Invaders are overrated?

[stargate]

Wow, some blasphemy here. Sinistar was my favorite and I still feel one of the best arcade games ever made. The sense of urgency, panic, and fear was almost too much to bear. RUN COWARD !!

Gorf and Tron also rock.

I always thought Mario Bros. was a horribly boring game.

And Time Pilot. I could never get the hang of the game and the controls just seemed back assed to me. Plus it was boring (IMO).

[Ed Oscuro]

Why do you think Pac Man and Space Invaders are overrated?
Because I don't have much fun with them.

[gepeto]

Pacman and space invaders let you at least enjoy your quarters.LOL Gorf was a great game. It offered variety. and different badges. I couldn't get into tron and qbert like alot of people.

[DreamTR]

ROFL at Pac-Man, Space INvaders, and Mario Bros for being even mentioned. For their time, they were amazing games, and honestly, if you grew up during the arcade heyday, you know what I am referring to.

[stargate]

ROFL at Pac-Man, Space INvaders, and Mario Bros for being even mentioned. For their time, they were amazing games, and honestly, if you grew up during the arcade heyday, you know what I am referring to.

I disagree on Mario Bros. I grew up in the arcade heyday, born in 1970, lived less than a mile from a local arcade and there every day after school. Pac Man and Space Invaders rocked, but I never got into Mario Bros. In fact, it was never really that popular of a game in the arcades I frequented.

Maybe I need to give it another chance on Mame.

[boatofcar]

I disagree on Mario Bros. I grew up in the arcade heyday, born in 1970, lived less than a mile from a local arcade and there every day after school. Pac Man and Space Invaders rocked, but I never got into Mario Bros. In fact, it was never really that popular of a game in the arcades I frequented.

You can't fault Mario Bros. on control, graphics, or sound, though. I suppose you can fault it on "fun factor," but that wouldn't make it overrated...

[scooterb23]

Burgertime and Mr. Do. I never understood the love for these games.

[Arcade Antics]

There seems to be a disconnect for some over the term "overrated."

Overrated means something that is praised too highly. Like, "Halo 3 is better than skydiving, thanksgiving dinner, and 1000 Super Bowls all rolled into one!"


but I never got into Mario Bros. In fact, it was never really that popular of a game in the arcades I frequented.
You've said that Mario Bros. is overrated and that you hate it, but in the same breath that it wasn't popular. By definition, it can be popular and overrated, but not unpopular and overrated.

I always liked Mario Bros., but admit that it's overrated. Why? Because it's not much more than a reskinned clone of Joust. As mentioned, Dragon's Lair is another great example of a game that's way overrated (but still fun). It's a reaction time exercise with an animated movie backdrop.

Anyway, to get back to the OP, the game that immediately comes to mind on this subject is Spy Hunter. Fun, but definitely overrated game.

There's no denying that Pac-Man and Space Invaders can't possibly be overrated. The impact these games had on the industry and on pop culture is indelible.

[Ed Oscuro]

ROFL at Pac-Man, Space INvaders, and Mario Bros for being even mentioned. For their time, they were amazing games, and honestly, if you grew up during the arcade heyday, you know what I am referring to.
I'm sorry, but some of us like to play our games instead of just thinking about how much fun we had in the good old days. I didn't have a game system until the later half of my teens, so I could only fantasize about games, and so now I judge things mainly based on how good they are.

But I also had an argument in store for having those games listed in terms of what they influenced in other games.

Thanks to Pac-Man we have had an endless stream of shitty collect-a-thon games where your goal is to run all over the map picking up point items and other useless garbage, even in genres where it doesn't belong.

And Space Invaders...oh boy, more single-screen arcade games and only shooting one bullet at a time! I'm so thrilled. What a wonderful design influence.

If I don't like it, it's overrated. Remember, the OP didn't give any guidance as to how to judge something as overrated; my criteria is "how great people say it is versus how great it actually is." It's all about having some fun.

Thanks for playing though!


There seems to be a disconnect for some over the term "overrated."
I can look at a car and say its reputation for speed is inflated, or its reputation for maintenance - some people are forgetting that one word, by itself, is an umbrella for quite a few different things. Joy!


[...] LOL Gorf was a great game. It offered variety. and different badges.
An early version of Achievement Disease? Did this game even get an Activision Patch?

[NE146]

ROFL at Pac-Man, Space INvaders, and Mario Bros for being even mentioned. For their time, they were amazing games, and honestly, if you grew up during the arcade heyday, you know what I am referring to.

Oh yeah for sure they were. I'm so glad I grew up and saw the Space Invader craze where the arcades I went to had walls of the machines and cocktails in the middle almost exclusively Space Invaders.. there's no way we'll ever see that again I'm sure LOL

But I dont think Mario Bros was exactly amazing.. I mean it was good, but it pretty much just was one of the many games of it's time. :) i.e. not exactly a standout.. but a great game nonetheless.

[boatofcar]

I always liked Mario Bros., but admit that it's overrated. Why? Because it's not much more than a reskinned clone of Joust.

I never thought of it that way, but you're right--Mario Bros. is kind of a rip-off of Joust.

[Bratwurst]

As the nerd rage swells, my power grows ever greater.

[skaar]

I'd vote for Frogger. I never really thought much of the title, and really.... the controls are clunky as hell.

[Flack]

Although it's already been mentioned, my vote goes to Dragon's Lair. Back when it came out in 1983, it became the new "benchmark" to which all other games were (at least temporarily) compared to. There's no denying that Dragon's Lair looked fantastic, but the gameplay was terrible. I can't believe anyone could get anywhere in that game without a guide of some sort. It was a trial-and-error electronic version of a Choose Your Own Adventure that cost you (me) 50 cents to try. There's no real strategy or skill involved -- it's all memorization, timing and luck.

As far as something like Space Invaders being overrated ... I guess it's harder for some of us older gamers to see it that way. Space Invaders may not seem that exciting today, but at the time it seemed pretty amazing. Space Invaders led to Galaxian, which led to Galaga, which led to Xevious, which led to pretty much every vertical scrolling shmup (I'm skipping a few milestones, but you get the idea). To me it would be like saying how overrated Wolfenstein 3D was, when programmers have been basically remaking it for 15 years now.

[DreamTR]

Although it's already been mentioned, my vote goes to Dragon's Lair. Back when it came out in 1983, it became the new "benchmark" to which all other games were (at least temporarily) compared to. There's no denying that Dragon's Lair looked fantastic, but the gameplay was terrible. I can't believe anyone could get anywhere in that game without a guide of some sort. It was a trial-and-error electronic version of a Choose Your Own Adventure that cost you (me) 50 cents to try. There's no real strategy or skill involved -- it's all memorization, timing and luck.

As far as something like Space Invaders being overrated ... I guess it's harder for some of us older gamers to see it that way. Space Invaders may not seem that exciting today, but at the time it seemed pretty amazing. Space Invaders led to Galaxian, which led to Galaga, which led to Xevious, which led to pretty much every vertical scrolling shmup (I'm skipping a few milestones, but you get the idea). To me it would be like saying how overrated Wolfenstein 3D was, when programmers have been basically remaking it for 15 years now.

Exactly. Flack gets the point. If not for Space Invaders everyone's OMG GALAGA IS THE BEST would not exist for one thing. Same goes for Pac-Man. So what if it "led" to clones of stuff? We aren't talking NOW for a lot of things, because right now half of us wouldn't play a lot of games these days based on even just nostalgic talk.

Now, I don't know about the people in here that have played Mario Bros, but even as an inverse clone of Joust it is not. Balloon Fight is a clone of Joust. Joust came out in 1982, Mario Bros came out in 1983. I'd love to see how flapping and flying around knocking characters on the head and getting eggs is the same as stages with icicles and multiple enemies walking on platforms that you have to hit timed or more than once can be deemed a clone. Might as well say Master of Weapon is a clone of Galaga or something bizarre like that.

[Arcade Antics]

Now, I don't know about the people in here that have played Mario Bros, but even as an inverse clone of Joust it is not. Balloon Fight is a clone of Joust. Joust came out in 1982, Mario Bros came out in 1983. I'd love to see how flapping and flying around knocking characters on the head and getting eggs is the same as stages with icicles and multiple enemies walking on platforms that you have to hit timed or more than once can be deemed a clone.

Let's say Balloon Fight is more of a clone of Joust.

Maybe clone wasn't the right word, but Mario Bros is at least 80% directly inspired by Joust, Miyamoto changed the setting and tweaked some details.

- eerily similar onscreen layout of platforms
- dispatch an enemy, get a bonus object: egg / coin
- enemies initially appear onscreen one at a time
- take too long on a board, new, roaming enemy appears (pterodactyl / fireball)
- player defeats enemy based on vertical position (Mario Bros. changed it from above to below)
- bonus rounds where player gathers bonus objects
- three main types of enemies
- later stages introduce the Lava Troll / Slipice
- two-player simultaneous play
- etc.

And Miyamoto admits that he saw Joust and based Mario Bros on it. Anyway, like I said before, I'm a big fan of Mario Bros. It's just overrated.

[DreamTR]

You can say things like that about half the games out there. I am sure he was "inspired" by it, but the game is completely different. Overrated? Heck, I think Joust is not as fun as Mario Bros to me. I think Defender is not very fun either, and I grew up in these times, but I guess that is why he was "inspired" by it.

What do you say about the 10 icicles on screen forming from the platforms in later levels of Mario Bros? What does that compare to since you got as far as Slipice.

[Arcade Antics]

What do you say about the 10 icicles on screen forming from the platforms in later levels of Mario Bros? What does that compare to since you got as far as Slipice.

The first thing that came to mind was Vanilla Ice explaining the difference between the bassline in Ice Ice Baby and how the addition of one extra eighth note makes it completely different from the bassline he stole from Under Pressure. LOL

Icicles: they don't directly compare to anything. But so what? Adding icicles to Joust does not a new game make. The games speak for themselves and gamers either see Mario Bros. as an overrated Joust wannabe or not.

[DreamTR]

The first thing that came to mind was Vanilla Ice explaining the difference between the bassline in Ice Ice Baby and how the addition of one extra eighth note makes it completely different from the bassline he stole from Under Pressure. LOL

Icicles: they don't directly compare to anything. But so what? Adding icicles to Joust does not a new game make. The games speak for themselves and gamers either see Mario Bros. as an overrated Joust wannabe or not.

You're comparing apples to oranges here. There took something DIRECTLY as a copy there from that Under Pressure song. Mario Bros does not remotely LOOK like Joust at ALL. And like I said, Balloon Fight = more like Joust. I've played all of these games extensively, and Mario does not play like Joust under any circumstances. but to each his own.

[BHvrd]

I never cared much for Battlezone.

Agreed!

Even when it was popular I didn't like it, I always felt like puking when I played it and it just pissed me off.

[stargate]

Berzerk

I was always frustrated by the controls.

[kupomogli]

Why is Pacman even posted on this thread? It's one of the best classic arcade games of all time and even to this day I have fun playing it.

Now. I'll be one to agree with Space Invaders. Sure it's a decent game, but it's too slow and repetitive. I think most shmup fans like it just to be more of a hardcore gamer. "OMG. I LOVE TEH SPACE INVADERZ!!!" Now Space Invaders 95 or the more recently released Extreme is a different story as they've actually upgraded the boring gameplay to where Space Invaders is actually fun now.

*edit*


As far as something like Space Invaders being overrated ... I guess it's harder for some of us older gamers to see it that way. Space Invaders may not seem that exciting today, but at the time it seemed pretty amazing. Space Invaders led to Galaxian, which led to Galaga, which led to Xevious, which led to pretty much every vertical scrolling shmup (I'm skipping a few milestones, but you get the idea). To me it would be like saying how overrated Wolfenstein 3D was, when programmers have been basically remaking it for 15 years now.


Exactly. Flack gets the point. If not for Space Invaders everyone's OMG GALAGA IS THE BEST would not exist for one thing. Same goes for Pac-Man. So what if it "led" to clones of stuff? We aren't talking NOW for a lot of things, because right now half of us wouldn't play a lot of games these days based on even just nostalgic talk.

We're currently not in the 80's. The "it was a good game back then" line is the most stupid fucking thing a gamer can say. The point is, the game sucks and it's not worth playing. It's just like those people who rate the original Dragon Quest as a good game because it was the original JRPG and it set the path for FF, Phantasy Star, etc etc etc. Who the hell cares if it was the original, as being the original doesn't make it a better game.

I loved the originally Dragon Quest, but once FF1, Dragon Quest 2, Dragon Quest 3, Phantasy Star, etc, came out, the original Dragon Quest quickly became a game not worth playing at all.

So yeah. Just because it was the only game out there of its type, obviously it was an amazing game at the time. No need to overrate the game and rank it 5/5 nowdays just because it started a genre, because, well, you know, the game still sucks. Being the first of a genre is not a gameplay element that makes the game better.

That said. Unlike Space Invaders, Galaga is still an amazing game, even based off any recent shmup.

[gepeto]

space invaders and pacman. When these games came out they were headturners. There was nothing like them and they were everywhere. Bars bowling alleys chicken places. I believe the popularity of these 2 games lead the whole arcade charge.

Everybody and there grandma wanted pacman and everyone wanted space invaders. I remember wanting the black entex version for christmas but I got the white flourescent one instead and someone stole it from my locker. Boy them were the days.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Epoch-Invaders-From-Space-Electronic-Game-Complete_W0QQitemZ260364749686QQihZ016QQcategoryZ1 1988QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[Kid Ice]

We're currently not in the 80's. The "it was a good game back then" line is the most stupid fucking thing a gamer can say. The point is, the game sucks and it's not worth playing. It's just like those people who rate the original Dragon Quest as a good game because it was the original JRPG and it set the path for FF, Phantasy Star, etc etc etc. Who the hell cares if it was the original, as being the original doesn't make it a better game.

I loved the originally Dragon Quest, but once FF1, Dragon Quest 2, Dragon Quest 3, Phantasy Star, etc, came out, the original Dragon Quest quickly became a game not worth playing at all.

So yeah. Just because it was the only game out there of its type, obviously it was an amazing game at the time. No need to overrate the game and rank it 5/5 nowdays just because it started a genre, because, well, you know, the game still sucks. Being the first of a genre is not a gameplay element that makes the game better.

Let me get this straight.

Original game = amazing

Sequel to original game = better

therefore

original game = suck

What was that about the stupidest thing a gamer can say again?

[Ed Oscuro]

I think that the very fact that everybody gets misty eyes about SI and Pac- is a sure sign they may well be overrated. "You can't call it overrated because it was so highly rated!" Zuh? I don't call these games overrated as a knock against their influence or relative greatness; it's just being realistic about how relatively great they are compared to other things.

On the subject of generational dispute, that's a given but it doesn't explain why I enjoy something like Exerion a good deal, SI somewhat less, and Pac-Man less (I like Pac-Land though). On the other hand, I imagine I'll have a hard time with people who will say that DOOM or Half-Life weren't revolutionary, and I suppose that my feeling I have an argument says more about the genres I enjoy (i.e. not maze puzzlers or single-shot-onscreen-at-a-time games). I do keep in mind that the developers of the time were up against more unknown territory and more unsure of possibilities for sparking interest in games than we are today, but I also don't think that games back then were stunted compared with today's, as Kupo here seems to suggest (hi Kupo). The bottom line is that I think SI's and Pac's greatness are blown out of proportion to how fun they are.

I also think that their supposed influence is less real than people might suggest - the actual games that developed and solidified in the 80s and beyond don't necessarily take anything from SI or Pac that they couldn't have in an alternate universe where different games than SI and Pac were developed.

[98PaceCar]

We're currently not in the 80's. The "it was a good game back then" line is the most stupid fucking thing a gamer can say.

I'm sure it's hard for you to tell, but you are on a forum that is centered around retro gaming. Nobody here cares when a game came out, it is either good or bad and age plays little to no part in that.

Now, back on topic... Pac Man and Space Invaders are far from overrated. Both had huge impacts on not only the shape of games from the point of their release, but also the industry in general. When a single game can cause a shortage of hard currency in a market, that's something to take notice of. Whether or not some other game might have caused the same chain of events in some "alternate universe" is not the question here. These were the games that came out and these are the games that shaped an industry.

I agree that the laserdisk games brought little lasting effect to what we have now, but they were sure the second coming when they were new. Very glitzy and appealing, but once you played through it completely there was nothing to go back to. They are an interesting use of technology, but not much beyond that.

*edit* I had forgotten to address Sinistar. I have a hard time calling this one overrated, but not because I think it's that good of a game. I do enjoy it and it's one that I spend a lot of time with still, but I don't know too many people that consider it to be a good game. It certainly doesn't have the mystique that some of the other Williams games have and never seemed to really gain any popularity. Good game, but not overrated. Probably right where it should be.

[NE146]

On the subject of generational dispute, that's a given but it doesn't explain why I enjoy something like Exerion a good deal, SI somewhat less,

I'm going to hazard a guess and say you probably don't really know how to play Space Invaders. Sure you know how.. but you don't really know ;) Don't feel bad because the majority of gamers that play my SI machine are the same way LOL

Anyway without going into detail, you can't jump in and play it like Galaxian or it'd suck. :p A lot of the fun comes from the strategy you use, but it usually isn't obvious to someone who's never seen it done that way.. i.e. back in the day when everyone was playing it in the arcades.

Although.. that theory goes out the door with Pacman which isn't hard to pick up and play it for what it is. So I dunno.. :-/

[skaar]

Now, back on topic... Pac Man and Space Invaders are far from overrated. Both had huge impacts on not only the shape of games from the point of their release, but also the industry in general. When a single game can cause a shortage of hard currency in a market, that's something to take notice of. Whether or not some other game might have caused the same chain of events in some "alternate universe" is not the question here. These were the games that came out and these are the games that shaped an industry.

That's actually not the topic - The OP is not talking about what games had the most impact on the industry, he's talking about which games are overrated... not deserving the lavish praised heaped upon them and actually being somewhat mediocre. Halo 3 would be a modern example... and I'd stand behind my pick of Frogger as an older title (1983?)

[Ed Oscuro]

I'm going to hazard a guess and say you probably don't really know how to play Space Invaders. Sure you know how.. but you don't really know ;) Don't feel bad because the majority of gamers that play my SI machine are the same way LOL
Nice try. I've read strategy guides on the game; doesn't change a dang thing. Chipping away at enemy formations in the name of "tactics" EVER so painfully slowly is not my idea of a great time. Same for ticking off 22 shots at a time, even though my card-counting skills could use some work. Give me a Toaplan shooter any day, or even a modern manic before this one. Now, it's not my least favorite thing to play - I like it more than I did when I first joined this Forum - but I think the fun factor is way overstated with this one.

Skaar gets it. Kupo gets it although I had some issue with his wording. When you consider all the games coming out, an older one needs to be able to compete with the newer stuff in order to be worthwhile. As I said before, SI and Pac definitely broke ground at the time, but I still think that the usefulness of their lessons to game creators and their fun factor are blown all out of proportion. That doesn't mean that other game designers didn't create tons of shit knockoffs (I think I like Moon Cresta and even Ozma Wars about as much as Galaga if not more, and I'd rather not talk about terrible Pac clones) or that people won't enjoy them; it means that, looking without rose-tinted goggles, they just aren't as good as they're made out to be.

[98PaceCar]

That's actually not the topic - The OP is not talking about what games had the most impact on the industry, he's talking about which games are overrated... not deserving the lavish praised heaped upon them and actually being somewhat mediocre. Halo 3 would be a modern example... and I'd stand behind my pick of Frogger as an older title (1983?)

I disagree. With few exceptions, I don't think you will find many games that impacted the industry in some meaningful way that are not highly regarded. Yes, it's possible that some under the radar game spawned a new genre without being given due credit, but I can't think of any cases of that off the top of my head.

The inverse is true as well. The games that are highly rated are usually the ones that push the boundaries, not the ones that follow the formula. For every Halo, there are scads of crap FPS games that try to be the same as Halo. If I wanted to play a Halo clone, I'd just play Halo. That's why Halo is a highly rated game and Halo 3 isn't so highly rated. It's just more of the same.

The Space Invaders/Galaga argument is similar to this, but again, Galaga pushed the formula and added new things to what Space Invaders started. That doesn't slight what Space Invaders accomplished, it just means that both of them can be highly rated even though they are spritually related.

Frogger is an interesting pick and I'm not sure exactly where I stand on that one. It's not one of my favorites, but I do know a lot of people that go nuts over it. It's actually one of the few "big" games from that era that I don't have in my arcade and really have no plans to buy. I still think that Dragon's Lair and Space Ace are the kings for this. At least Frogger has some real replayability.

[Ed Oscuro]

Yes, it's possible that some under the radar game spawned a new genre without being given due credit, but I can't think of any cases of that off the top of my head.
What's Halo got that Marathon didn't?

Big money behind it, that's what.

Same was true for Pac-Man and SI sequels, but they did *earn* their fame.

Another question: What's Halo Wars got going for it that the original Halo concept didn't, or Myth, for that matter? On and on it goes...

[bangtango]

I'd call Ms. Pac Man overrated before I said the same about Pac Man, especially since a lot of people are of the opinion that Ms. Pac Man is "better" than Pac Man. Besides wasn't it little more than a "hack" as opposed to an original game?

Didn't a group of programmers just lift the actual Pac Man design and run with it? Yet people are calling Gorf a blatant rip off in this thread.

Anyway, my vote is saved for Donkey Kong Jr.

[98PaceCar]

What's Halo got that Marathon didn't?

Big money behind it, that's what.

Same was true for Pac-Man and SI sequels, but they did *earn* their fame.

Another question: What's Halo Wars got going for it that the original Halo concept didn't, or Myth, for that matter? On and on it goes...

What's Marathon got that Doom didn't? You can analyze this till you're blue in the face. It doesn't change the fact that it's possible for both the original AND the sequels to be highly regarded in their own right.

It's your opinion that SI is overrated. It seems that is not the popular consensus which is how it goes sometimes. I can tell you from personal experience that when I polled my friends on which games I should buy for my arcade, SI came up as often as Galaga and I'd say it gets played as much as Galaga. If it still has the power to pull people to play it 30+ years later, I'd say that is a good indication that it's not overrated, at least to most folks.

[Sanriostar]

Impossible.

There are no overrated Arcade games pre-crash. I love them all.

[chrisbid]

as a classic gamer, i realize fun factor is not the lone reason i play a given game. i also appreciate the history and evolution of gaming, and my collection is a reflection of this fact.

and fun is not a yes or not question, i can play a game of space invaders and have fun, but i am not going to play it for 10 hours straight. one or two games and i am finished

so when the question is asked about a game being overrated, the followup question is overrated fun-wise or overrated historically

i would say pac-man is somewhat overrated historically. the game had a successful formula that was not replicated later on. namely, the idea of a gender-neutral game being popluar with the masses, no other arcade game before or since really ran with that formula and was successful (maybe DDR). the pac-man character was a fad that never regained its former glory. the new pac man games are nice novelties, but he certainly isn't a versitile as mario.

but with that said, i still love the game itself and personally rate it quite high

so the question is tricky

[Arcade Antics]

namely, the idea of a gender-neutral game being popluar with the masses, no other arcade game before or since really ran with that formula and was successful (maybe DDR).

And Tetris.

[jb143]

I'm just glad that classic was defined as pre 1984 this time around.

[chrisbid]

And Tetris.


was arcade tetris ever popular?

[DreamTR]

Kupomogli: You have some pretty dumb logic. Is Killer Instinct 2 better than part 1? I mean, just because a newer game comes out does not make it better. Pac-Man and Space Invaders will always be classics, but you have to introduce people to them FIRST before introducing them to the latest and greatest games, that's the issue.

[PingvinBlueJeans]

You guys are silly. All classic arcade games are overrated...you have to put a coin in every time you play!

Why spend money to play Pac-Man in an arcade when I can stay home and play Muncher for free?

Bally Astrocade FTW

[Arcade Antics]

was arcade tetris ever popular?
Hugely so in all the arcades I frequented, but mileage may vary.

[kupomogli]

Kupomogli: You have some pretty dumb logic. Is Killer Instinct 2 better than part 1? I mean, just because a newer game comes out does not make it better. Pac-Man and Space Invaders will always be classics, but you have to introduce people to them FIRST before introducing them to the latest and greatest games, that's the issue.

Actually it's not dumb logic. We are currently in 2009. So here are a few examples of whether games are fun to play or not in todays day in age.

Any Mortal Kombat 4 and beyond. These aren't really classic titles and every single one of them sucks compared to almost any other other fighter on the market and compared to almost every other fighter that's been on the market(almost.) Just because they're new doesn't mean they're good.

Space Invaders. Slow, boring. Back then I enjoyed playing it when it was the only thing out, but now days I can't touch it without wanting to put it down in less than 5 minutes.

Pacman, Bubble Bobble, Donkey Kong, Rastan. I can play these games for hours straight. Nothing wrong with these titles as they're better than alot of titles released today.

Prinny: Can I Really Be the Hero, Mega Man ZX/ZX Advent, Contra 4, Castlevania Dawn of Sorrow. Not classics as these games are new. Again I could probably play these ones all day long for how good they are.

Then finally. Tactics Ogre Let Us Cling Together(SNES/PSX.) Amazing game and STILL the best tactical RPG ever created. Disgaea(PS2/PSP/DS/and whatever the next system they port it to.) Very shitty overrated tactical RPG that needs no tactical skill whatsoever other than common sense.

So yeah. Just because Space Invaders is old and I was bashing it because it sucks, doesn't mean I meant "only new games are good." I don't care if a game is new or old. I'll like it as long as it's good, and a game I may have been a fan of way back when, I could possibly hate now; see the original Dragon Warrior(other than the music.)

*edit*

There are many people here who cry about the difficulty of the earlier Castlevania games. The series itself is my favorite series, though the earlier titles are my favorites. As of late, the series has been going downhill. So yeah. Your opinion on my logic with "new being better" and Space Invaders sucking because it's old, fails. I only made mention that just because Space Invaders created a genre doesn't make the crappy gameplay any better.

[Arcade Antics]

Space Invaders. Slow, boring. Back then I enjoyed playing it


So yeah. Just because Space Invaders is old and I was bashing it because it sucks, doesn't mean I meant "only new games are good." I don't care if a game is new or old. I'll like it as long as it's good
But you admit to having liked Space Invaders when it was new. The passage of time doesn't diminish the quality of the game; *you* simply prefer to play something else.

Let me guess: you also hate old paintings like the Mona Lisa and anything by Picasso because photographs are newer and more realistic. Therefore, according to you, the old Picasso stuff sucks.

[Kid Fenris]

Then finally. Tactics Ogre Let Us Cling Together(SNES/PSX.) Amazing game and STILL the best tactical RPG ever created. Disgaea(PS2/PSP/DS/and whatever the next system they port it to.) Very shitty overrated tactical RPG that needs no tactical skill whatsoever other than common sense.

As much as I like Tactics Ogre, it's primitive compared to modern strategy-RPGs. The spell animations are stupidly tedious, the game lets you abuse its mid-battle save system with no consequences, and the story is a rough draft of Final Fantasy Tactics. Calling it the best tactical RPG ever suggests that you haven't played any tactical RPGs for ten years.


There are many people here who cry about the difficulty of the earlier Castlevania games. The series itself is my favorite series, though the earlier titles are my favorites. As of late, the series has been going downhill. So yeah.

Just a reminder: Castlevania sucked until Rondo of Blood.

[bangtango]

Space Invaders. Slow, boring. Back then I enjoyed playing it when it was the only thing out, but now days I can't touch it without wanting to put it down in less than 5 minutes.

Your opinion on my logic with "new being better" and Space Invaders sucking because it's old, fails. I only made mention that just because Space Invaders created a genre doesn't make the crappy gameplay any better.

You can level with us. Your primary exposure to Space Invaders is via Novice Mode on the Atari 2600 version, right?

[98PaceCar]

Actually it's not dumb logic. We are currently in 2009. So here are a few examples of whether games are fun to play or not in todays day in age.

random off topic babbling edited out

The thread is about pre 1984 arcade games. Where we are now is of no consequence to the discussion at hand and anything after 1984 or console based isn't valid in this discussion.

Question, are you even old enough to have played Space Invaders when it was in the arcade or when it was first released on the 2600? If not (and I'm pretty sure you aren't old enough), at what point in gaming history did you start playing? Do you understand exactly what Space Invaders brought to gaming when it was released? Do you understand how many people played it then and how many people still play it today?

I made the comment earlier (and to another poster, but it applies here as well) that it's your opinion that it's overrated and that's fine. But you really haven't made any meaningful argument to why anybody should agree with you. If you feel so strongly that it's overrated, say why and help prove that you aren't just trolling around here.

[DreamTR]

At the very least, if you weren't going to arcades in the early 80s, you should not be discussing if Space INvaders or Pac-Man blows or not. We should talk about if Journey blows still, and why the hell there were 200 arcade machines within 4 miles of each other in North Las Vegas back in the day...

[Ed Oscuro]

At the very least, if you weren't going to arcades in the early 80s, you should not be discussing if Space INvaders or Pac-Man blows or not.
I'm not sure whether to laugh, or laugh even harder. Try to be civil, at least.

You might have noticed (edit: and Kupo already said this) that we are talking about these games not "in the early 80s," but right now, in 2009. I don't mind the historical perspective; I'm respectful of other Forumers' bringing it and I wonder why the reverse isn't true. The topic title does not say "What was most overrated in its day?" Of course, I'm sure that there's people out there who were simply turned off by the gameplay of these simplistic video games, and they're buying Wiis right now. They could come here and give a perfectly good explanation as to why these games are overrated and defenders of these games would concoct some other BS narrative to discredit them, like "you had to be a fanatic of popular arcade games in the 80s to even be discussing this." Can we say "myopia" and "what's the point of even having this discussion if only people who parrot groupthink are validated speakers?"

But hey: If you weren't going to middle school cafeterias in 1998, you should not be discussing if Final FAntasy blows or not. And so on.


The thread is about pre 1984 arcade games. Where we are now is of no consequence to the discussion at hand and anything after 1984 or console based isn't valid in this discussion.
Is your name Boatofcar?

I'm like a freakin' Time Lord, moving back and forth through time periods as I please! What's more, I can find other pre-84 arcade shooters I like a whole lot more than Space Invaders.

As I've said at least once already, there's different categories to rate a game in. I chose fun factor for some apparently inscrutable subjective reason. In the area of stylistic influence, I find Pac-Man and SI both have had a major impact, and they should be congratulated. Unfortunately, it can't sway my intentional finding against the games in this single category: fun factor. If this were a list for a publication, I'd know I'd need to specify which category or else add weight in favor of Pac- and SI for the aforementioned reasons, but there's no such guideline in the first post.

[98PaceCar]

Is your name Boatofcar?

I'm like a freakin' Time Lord, moving back and forth through time periods as I please! What's more, I can find other pre-84 arcade shooters I like a whole lot more than Space Invaders.

As I've said at least once already, there's different categories to rate a game in. I chose fun factor for some apparently inscrutable subjective reason. In the area of stylistic influence, I find Pac-Man and SI both have had a major impact, and they should be congratulated. Unfortunately, it can't sway my intentional finding against the games in this single category: fun factor. If this were a list for a publication, I'd know I'd need to specify which category or else add weight in favor of Pac- and SI for the aforementioned reasons, but there's no such guideline in the first post.

<Yawn>

Can you read the title of a thread? In case it's too far to scroll:"The most overrated classic (pre 1984) arcade game?". Doesn't say "The most overrated classic (pre 1984) arcade game now that we have had 25 years of additional game development". Of course there are going to be better games now than what were released then. If there weren't, the industry would have imploded long ago due to stagnation. Nobody wants to play endless clones of SI or any other game.

I'm glad that you appear to be open enough to play games from multiple eras. As I said before, that's the type of gamer that hangs out here. If you didn't enjoy retro gaming, there wouldn't really be any point in your being here, now would there?

I also said before that in *your* opinion, SI is not fun and you find it overrated. Hooray! That makes 2 people out of everybody that's posted in this thread. In my honest opinion, I doubt that either you or Kupo (the 2 people in question) were even alive when SI was making it's mark on history. It's good that you understand that it spawned an entire genre that is still popular today, but unless you were there, it's really hard to understand how important this game was and continues to be. Even today, it's console re-releases tend to sell well and it's one of about 10 pre crash arcade games that have been re-released to the arcade and have made good money. Find an operator that runs some of the SI/Qix combo games and see how it does making money 30+ years after it's original release. That in and of itself is very telling in how much SI deserves the accolades it continues to receive and how it is far from overrated, at least to most people.

[Arcade Antics]

At the very least, if you weren't going to arcades in the early 80s, you should not be discussing if Space INvaders or Pac-Man blows or not.


but unless you were there, it's really hard to understand how important this game was and continues to be. Even today, it's console re-releases tend to sell well and it's one of about 10 pre crash arcade games that have been re-released to the arcade and have made good money. Find an operator that runs some of the SI/Qix combo games and see how it does making money 30+ years after it's original release. That in and of itself is very telling in how much SI deserves the accolades it continues to receive and how it is far from overrated, at least to most people.

*applause*

Ed, bottom line is that you're completely ignoring SI's contribution to the history of gaming.

[MachineGex]

I think people are getting the whole topic confused. Some people are talking about games that were great and now arent that fun, while other people are saying it was great and deserves to keep the title.

I personally think if a game was great in it's time, it is hard to say it is over-rated just because it isnt as fun today as it was back when it was released. It is like saying Jim Brown is over-rated because today he could not play in the NFL because of his age. It isnt a fair comparision imo. Sure he is 60 years old, and would get killed if he was in the NFL, but back in the day he was the man. How can he be over-rated just because he didnt age well and doesnt hold up to todays players?

[bangtango]

I'll keep this short.

I don't mind people saying Space Invaders is overrated, assuming they still enjoy the game to some extent, but it is my right to disagree with them.

However, I seriously question the judgement of someone who says Space Invaders wasn't a good game and that it sucks.

And here we have a fellow in this thread making that very claim.

[ButtonMasher123]

I hate to add fuel to the fire in this argument, but I kinda agree that Space Invaders is overrated. Being the first to do something does not make you immune to being called overrated.

I mean Mortal Kombat was a highly influential game as well that I loved at the time, but that doesn't mean it can't also be considered nothing more than a average game which I happen to think it was looking back at it.

And for the record, Pac-Man is still awesome so I'm not just some old game hater.

[kupomogli]

It's good that you understand that it spawned an entire genre that is still popular today, but unless you were there, it's really hard to understand how important this game was and continues to be. Even today, it's console re-releases tend to sell well and it's one of about 10 pre crash arcade games that have been re-released to the arcade and have made good money. Find an operator that runs some of the SI/Qix combo games and see how it does making money 30+ years after it's original release. That in and of itself is very telling in how much SI deserves the accolades it continues to receive and how it is far from overrated, at least to most people.

When a game sucks and people continue to praise it, that's overrated, just in case you didn't know. Just because someone doesn't share your enthusiasm just because it pretty much made the genre doesn't make the game any better than it is.

Pacman, Donkey Kong, Dig Dug, Joust, Asteroids, Missile Command, Jungle Hunt, Pong, Warlords(which is better than Pong,) Defender, Frogger, etc. Great games. Even to this day I still play them and actually have fun. Just some well known classics that have actually aged well.

When Galaxian came out, Space Invaders was outclassed by far right there. What do they do though? Space Invaders 2 with the same boring gameplay as the first one and only subtle differences. How about Xevious(1982,) another pre 1984 arcade shmup that owns the hell out of Space Invaders 1 and 2. But wait. 1981, Galaga came out and it's hands down the best shooter ever made. So far none have surpassed it. Out of all the classic arcade shoot em ups I've played, Space Invaders is the worst.

Also I'm 25, so I wasn't playing games before or during the video game crash. I was playing games about 1986 or 87 as my family owned an Atari and a ton of games(also an NES,) so back then I actually enjoyed Space Invaders. Times change, people change, and games like Space Invaders didn't age well at all. Just because I'm only 25 and dislike Space Invaders means I'm not a fan of classic games? Is being 34 and liking Space Invaders requirements to be a classic gaming fan, 98Pacecar?

[Kid Ice]

Space Invaders. Slow, boring. Back then I enjoyed playing it when it was the only thing out, but now days I can't touch it without wanting to put it down in less than 5 minutes.



Also I'm 25, so I wasn't playing games before or during the video game crash.

So you enjoyed playing Space Inavders "back when it was the only thing out".

Before you were born.

If you were just getting to the arcades around 90/91, I could hardly blame you if you weren't interested in Space Invaders. Actually, I'd be surprised if you could find an arcade with SI in it in those days.

Wait....you were playing games in 86 or 87? And you're 25? So you were playing Space Invaders when you were 2 or 3? Does your story make sense to you?

[98PaceCar]

So you enjoyed playing Space Inavders "back when it was the only thing out".

Before you were born.

If you were just getting to the arcades around 90/91, I could hardly blame you if you weren't interested in Space Invaders. Actually, I'd be surprised if you could find an arcade with SI in it in those days.

Wait....you were playing games in 86 or 87? And you're 25? So you were playing Space Invaders when you were 2 or 3? Does your story make sense to you?

You just said it better than I ever could.

Kupo, no, there are no requirements to being a classic gaming fan other than enjoying classic gaming. If you truly do enjoy the games you listed, that's great! I run into way too many "gamers" that refuse to believe that anything other than the latest and greatest is worth playing. I also find that most of them tend to be closer to your age or younger. Not a slight towards anybody, just what I have observed. Personally, I don't believe you can truly appreciate what you have now unless you also appreciate and understand where it came from.

You have proven that you don't like SI and find it overrated. Honestly though, you haven't given any concrete reasons why and have not refuted any of the facts presented that support the view that it's not overrated. But, like anything, you have your opinion and other folks have theirs. I would challenge you to revisit your thoughts towards SI and research what impact it has had on gaming. My reasons for liking it and feeling that it is not overrated are based on many things, but is mostly based on my time spent playing it and watching my friends play it. Maybe nostalgia has clouded my perception, but I really don't think that's the case. I know far too many people that love the game, even today, to feel like I'm at all in the minority.

There's nothing wrong with having a differing opinion, but there are far better ways to express it than what you've done here.

[kupomogli]

To tell you the truth though, even though I enjoy shmups a little. One reason Space Invaders isn't liked by me at all is because shmups are one of my least favorite genres, though it's also one of the genres to very rarely have a crappy game.

Galaga and Toaplan games are the best though.

*edit*

I can basically explain why it's boring though. Later shmups actually had enemies aiming at your characters with ships that moved around. Xevious had you do more than dodging bullets from straight down while shooting enemies on ground and in air. Galaxian, just like Galaga, actually had enemies shooting down at you and trying to fly into you. I won't lie that Space Invaders is pretty difficult with its setup of getting faster the less there are and moving down each part, but it doesn't make it anymore fun to me regardless.

And yes. I've heard it from Bloodreign many times as he likes the game also. "Space Invaders caused a coin shortage in Japan it was so great during when it came out." I commend it for getting gaming where it's got it, but it doesn't make the game any better. So yeah. Not bashing the game this time, just explaining why I'd see it as overrated.

[Ed Oscuro]

*applause*

Ed, bottom line is that you're completely ignoring SI's contribution to the history of gaming.
Actually, no. First, DreamTR's argument is against historical inquisitiveness; under his view of history, we can't comment or interpret stuff that happened before we were born. Why think when you can listen to the echo? 'nuff said, hopefully.

Your second statement is also erroneous- I was careful to take my statements only so far. I'm not making sweeping statements about historical interpretation or reading stuff into other people's topic lines that isn't there. I could have defined the boundaries of my statements more clearly so that everybody was clear what I meant, but I didn't think it was necessary. Woe to him that stirs up the wrath of the person who puts nostalgia over varied knowledge and enjoyment sought in shooting games!

All I said was that I thought, in terms of fun factor, SI was slightly overrated. Yes, I was not factoring in its contributions, but again that's not what I set out to do and the topic doesn't ask for it. Clearly it has some great qualities in terms of character design, scoring and tactics, and the semi-abstract gameplay setup (standing somewhat in contrast to Missile Command), and clearly it helped popularize certain gameplay principles (most of which I think would have seeped into arcade games anyway; consider how different a beast the "mature" late 80s to 90s shooter is from SI and it stands to reason that had SI been a no-show those designs would only have been somewhat delayed).

Fun note: I didn't say that SI sucked. I don't hate it; I just don't find it terribly great fun, and so I find it slightly overrated.

It's more fun (or at least less frustrating) than playing Galaxian, while Galaga is exponentially more fun than Galaxian. Cresta is somewhat more fun than SI and Galaxian in my book (although it definitely has some problems). Minivader (the cabinet test PCB, emulated in MAME) is more fun for me than playing regular SI (without counting shots anyway), although it hasn't got any scoring system to speak of other than waves survived.

[98PaceCar]

To tell you the truth though, even though I enjoy shmups a little. One reason Space Invaders isn't liked by me at all is because shmups are one of my least favorite genres, though it's also one of the genres to very rarely have a crappy game.

Galaga and Toaplan games are the best though.

*edit*

I can basically explain why it's boring though. Later shmups actually had enemies aiming at your characters with ships that moved around. Xevious had you do more than dodging bullets from straight down while shooting enemies on ground and in air. Galaxian, just like Galaga, actually had enemies shooting down at you and trying to fly into you. I won't lie that Space Invaders is pretty difficult with its setup of getting faster the less there are and moving down each part, but it doesn't make it anymore fun to me regardless.

And yes. I've heard it from Bloodreign many times as he likes the game also. "Space Invaders caused a coin shortage in Japan it was so great during when it came out." I commend it for getting gaming where it's got it, but it doesn't make the game any better. So yeah. Not bashing the game this time, just explaining why I'd see it as overrated.

Everything you said here makes sense. There are certain genres that I don't much care for and probably don't even have enough experience with to make an educated judgement of what is a good game and what isn't. Not sure I would condemn a game because of that, but I can see your point and get where you are coming from now.

I will have to try Toaplan at some point. I've heard it's worth playing from several people now, but never have tried to track it down.

[Ed Oscuro]

Good deal! If you're gonna try out a Toaplan game, I'd recommend starting with Twin Cobra. Pretty easy to get into. Truxton is another decent title, much harder though. Vimana is also worth checking out, and while not amongst the usual top Toaplan recommendations, is different enough to warrant a try.

BTW, been spending some time with SI to see if my thoughts about it have changed. It's pretty much the same way I left it. Not bad though.

[murdoc rose]

hmm... lots of debate here well.. I'll respond to how i read it, as popular "arcade" games that you didn't understand why people liked so much. My vote would be for spy hunter, sort of fun but never understood what was so great about it.

as for everyone else well lets just say some games just don't age that well but for most of us I feel you should take advantage of anytime you get to play a classic arcade game. All arcades are special even if they are not that fun and a popular one like froger or star wars is a real treat to play on. Im glad to know that alot of people are trying to keep them alive.