Kinda gets me pissed (Wii, 360)

[demen999]

So something has pissed me off lately more than ever and wanted to see if it's a bigger problem out there.

I recently got a Xbox 360 for Xmas (Best wife ever!), and am getting into more deeper (story, genre) games. I am coming from a Nintendo lovers place (all my fav systems are Ninty), and am loving it. I'm playing things like Condemned, Forza, Assassin's Creed. Obviously I am checking out 360 games and news more now since I got the 360 fever (teamxbox for the win).

Then every time I turn to Nintendo Wii news, it's always some bullcrap like a Lumberjack game or some mini-game nonsense. This upsets me because I know they can pull of the same types of games (at least story or genre) on the Wii, and it's a great system. I am seeing more and more bull popping up on my favorite system, why won't they try more?! Yes it is selling like hotcakes, but you don't have to fill those cakes with dung.

Yes we are getting Mad World, Monster Hunter and all that awesome stuff, but this doesn't even fill half of the goodness 360 has. I don't know the PS3 stuff so I can't comment. I do know that system reminds me too much of PS2, and I barely played that system so no go for me.

[FantasiaWHT]

Muramasa: the Demon Blade. 'Nuff said.

[demen999]

True that, the game looks sick as al hell! I just wish there was of that quality stuff on there :(

[j_factor]

More games total come out for the Wii than the 360. Good games and "minigame nonsense" are not mutually exclusive. The good Wii games are just as much there as the good 360 games; the only difference is that the good Wii games are accompanied by a larger amount of crap.

[Wolfrider31]

I felt the same way when I jumped onto the 360 (and later PS3) bandwagon. For a while there I started to just put up with the garbage on the Wii, but once I sat down with my 360 it was as if I'd finally caught up to what gaming was. The experiences are just so far ahead of anything the Wii can offer and whenever I hear people defending the quality of the Wii as a whole I often wonder if they didn't just "get used to" the sub-par shovelware that makes up most of the Wii's lineup.

That said, there are a few games coming out for the Wii that are peaking my interest. Madworld, Muramasa, Crystal Bearers, NMH 2, Little Kings Story.

Of course even then, that's what's got me excited for all of 2009. I buy more than that for my 360 and PS3 in a month.

[demen999]

More games total come out for the Wii than the 360. Good games and "minigame nonsense" are not mutually exclusive. The good Wii games are just as much there as the good 360 games; the only difference is that the good Wii games are accompanied by a larger amount of crap.

Yeah I hear you. I do not think however that the same ratio of good games comes out for both systems. I have been pretty much following Nintendo since the 80's and the Wii since it came out, it was the only current gen system I had. There is just a disappointing factor for me, even with Nintendo games for a bit.
I love non-game games (if that makes sense) like Endless Ocean, Animal Crossing, and all that good ol Nintendo stuff, but for a while it's been dry as hell on my Wii camp.

Wolfrider: That is extremely true. The whole achievements system, integration of friends, voice chat alone is amazing. Then to bring it all together online and keep it steady and in good connects is awesome. I wish that evil friend code crap N does goes away. I only have like 2 or 3 people I used to play smash with because of that.

[Sudo]

Wii gets much less quality third-party games because it's simply nowhere near as powerful as the PS3 and 360. Developers can't make the type of games they want for it, since Nintendo chose to use underpowered hardware compared to the competition. It's easier and makes more sense to make a spinoff of a popular franchise (Resident Evil: Umbrella Chronicles) or a mini-game compilation for less money and then use that to fund their big-budget PS3/360 projects than it would be to make a high-quality Wii exclusive game.

[The 1 2 P]

I'm looking forward to both the Conduit and Punch Out on the Wii. As for it's lack of good games, thats starting to turn around alittle bit. EA is now going to bring ALL it's major games to the Wii because of how much money they lost last quarter. So ports of Dead Space(and perhaps Mirror's Edge) are forthcoming. And this trend may continue since the Wii has the largest install base.

I think most developers who havn't supported the Wii that much have made their decision based on specs alone. Since they can't make their games as graphically intense as they can on the 360 and PS3 they just decided to pass it by all together. But now more than ever they need to atleast try to support the Wii more if they want a chance at making more money. However, Nintendo games are usually the ones making money on the Wii so......

[chicnstu]

Here is Wii 2009:

http://gametz.com/forum/USER%253A94634/topic/321384.html#new

I've been one of those that has had a hard time finding something I want for Wii other than Nintendo releases. 10 of those games on that list make me excited again for Wii. I can't think of everything that's coming/out for 360/PS3 this year but of the ones I can, I want these:

Resident Evil 5
Street Fighter IV
Bionic Commando
Bayonetta
Star Ocean: The Last Hope
Borderlands - maybe, I've never liked any FPS I've tried, but this one is an RPG. I put 100 hours into Fallout 3 and it was nice but shooting wasn't fun for me.

[ProgrammingAce]

I think most developers who havn't supported the Wii that much have made their decision based on specs alone. Since they can't make their games as graphically intense as they can on the 360 and PS3 they just decided to pass it by all together. But now more than ever they need to atleast try to support the Wii more if they want a chance at making more money. However, Nintendo games are usually the ones making money on the Wii so......

You've got it backwords. Because the Wii isn't as powerful as the 360/PS3, game developers can't re-use code from the other platforms, they generally have to build the game engine from scratch or just hire an outside developer to make their Wii games. Considering how crappy the attach rate is, publishers have decided that porting games to the Wii isn't profitable.

EA hasn't had to make quality games for almost 10 years now, they've always been the 900 lb gorilla in the industry. Now that they've lost that status, they're willing to try anything.

As an aside, the fact the renderware engine is garbage has hurt EA far more then they're willing to admit.

[Jackattack]

People have very short memories. I understand that as of late the Wii hasn't exactly had any first class games while the 360 and PS3 had a killer holiday season, but once you consider that the Wii is home to the likes of Galaxy Twilight Princess Mario Kart SSBB Prime 3 and Zack and Wiki to name a few, you, at least I remember, that the Wii has just as many quality games as the other systems.

[Sudo]

I'm loking forward to both the Conduit and Punch Out on the Wii. As for it's lack of good games, thats starting to turn around alittle bit. EA is now going to bring ALL it's major games to the Wii because of how much money they lost last quarter. So ports of Dead Space(and perhaps Mirror's Edge) are forthcoming. And this trend may continue since the Wii has the largest install base.

I think most developers who havn't supported the Wii that much have made their decision based on specs alone. Since they can't make their games as graphically intense as they can on the 360 and PS3 they just decided to pass it by all together. But now more than ever they need to atleast try to support the Wii more if they want a chance at making more money. However, Nintendo games are usually the ones making money on the Wii so......
Dead Space Wii isn't a port, it's an on-rails shooter.

[CDiablo]

IMO theres a lot of crap on all the systems, its just Wii gets the crappiest of the crap and the highest volume of crap.

[j_factor]

Yeah I hear you. I do not think however that the same ratio of good games comes out for both systems. I have been pretty much following Nintendo since the 80's and the Wii since it came out, it was the only current gen system I had. There is just a disappointing factor for me, even with Nintendo games for a bit.
I love non-game games (if that makes sense) like Endless Ocean, Animal Crossing, and all that good ol Nintendo stuff, but for a while it's been dry as hell on my Wii camp.

I dunno about ratio, but there are more Wii games that interest me compared to the other two platforms. And I can't stand Animal Crossing or Endless Ocean. I'm not even that big of a Nintendo fan.

[Bojay1997]

People have very short memories. I understand that as of late the Wii hasn't exactly had any first class games while the 360 and PS3 had a killer holiday season, but once you consider that the Wii is home to the likes of Galaxy Twilight Princess Mario Kart SSBB Prime 3 and Zack and Wiki to name a few, you, at least I remember, that the Wii has just as many quality games as the other systems.

Of course people have short memories. The way this industry works is that people buy new games on a regular basis once they have beaten them or become bored of them. The fact that Nintendo had some great games a year or two ago that they are still trying to sell at full price is a testament to the fact that they are continuing to play by their own rules and don't really care to create the kind of model that will allow third party publishers to actually have an incentive to develop for their system. I know it's profitable for Nintendo, but as a gamer who constantly needs new games to play and enjoy, I'm not interested in replaying old Wii games I already own and beat long ago.

[Cryomancer]

Wii has games with short length with replay value. 360 has games you could spend years trying to finish everything in (looking at you, DOAX2). I will be playing my 360 titles for ages and still not have them all totally done. Wii stuff I might get in the mood for once every couple months and run through again.

[Jackattack]

Of course people have short memories. The way this industry works is that people buy new games on a regular basis once they have beaten them or become bored of them. The fact that Nintendo had some great games a year or two ago that they are still trying to sell at full price is a testament to the fact that they are continuing to play by their own rules and don't really care to create the kind of model that will allow third party publishers to actually have an incentive to develop for their system. I know it's profitable for Nintendo, but as a gamer who constantly needs new games to play and enjoy, I'm not interested in replaying old Wii games I already own and beat long ago.

I think you forgot your own argument here. You were saying that the Wii has fewer high quality games than it's competitors, not that you were pissed about them having a poor release schedule. My post was to show that the Wii matches what the 360 has to offer, the games just came out a year+ ago and 360 had its shining moment last holiday season... which is still fresh on gamers minds... Plus can you really blame Nintendo for wanting to sell their games at full price? They top the charts every month and the games are years old!

With games like Mad World, Sin and Punishment 2, and the conduit all relatively soon, and Pikmin 3, Zelda and most likely another Mario, probably Star Fox, and maybe even Kid Icarus, can you really complain about what you'll get to play on Nintendo's System or that it lacks in great games.

Nintendo has always been slow at releasing games, but when they do they are gems. As a Nintendo gamer you should be used to it by now ;)

Really though, I completely understand your point, I haven't turned on my Wii since Mario Kart in May and that hurts. I wish someone would release something worth playing but no one has yet to do so. Mad World and the Conduit are changing that, but it sure took a long time. Off years are bad, (and used to be filled in by Rare) but that's the life of a Nintendo gamer... I console myself by remembering I get to play Zelda and Mario and they are worth it.

[Bojay1997]

I think you forgot your own argument here. You were saying that the Wii has fewer high quality games than it's competitors, not that you were pissed about them having a poor release schedule. My post was to show that the Wii matches what the 360 has to offer, the games just came out a year+ ago and 360 had its shining moment last holiday season... which is still fresh on gamers minds... Plus can you really blame Nintendo for wanting to sell their games at full price? They top the charts every month and the games are years old!

With games like Mad World, Sin and Punishment 2, and the conduit all relatively soon, and Pikmin 3, Zelda and most likely another Mario, probably Star Fox, and maybe even Kid Icarus, can you really complain about what you'll get to play on Nintendo's System or that it lacks in great games.

Nintendo has always been slow at releasing games, but when they do they are gems. As a Nintendo gamer you should be used to it by now ;)

Really though, I completely understand your point, I haven't turned on my Wii since Mario Kart in May and that hurts. I wish someone would release something worth playing but no one has yet to do so. Mad World and the Conduit are changing that, but it sure took a long time. Off years are bad, (and used to be filled in by Rare) but that's the life of a Nintendo gamer... I console myself by remembering I get to play Zelda and Mario and they are worth it.

Actually, I think I was consistent in my point. The 360 has had consistently good releases since launch. Yes, this past holiday season was a high point, but there is lots of stuff that came out in the last month and is scheduled to come out in the month or two ahead that is just as good (Halo Wars, SFIV, FEAR 2, Resident Evil 5). I hope Mad World and Conduit will be amazing games of this caliber, but they aren't out yet. I don't agree that the Wii has had the volume of great games that the 360 or PS3 have had. There have been some high points, but there have also been a lot of sequels and remakes that barely improved on the originals. Pikmin 3, a new Zelda, a new Mario, Star Fox and Kid Icarus may or may not be in development and they sure aren't scheduled to come out in the next few months. I'm not interested in passing the time I should be spending gaming by having happy thoughts about past games or what Nintendo may or may not deliver in the future.

[makaar]

I've seen quite a few good Wii games, and a Nintendo console has been my favorite console every generation up until the Wii came out. Not that there aren't any good titles its just the 360 has really hit its stride...every Nintendo console that has come out has always been a leap beyond the last system's, and while I'm playing 1080p games on a 47'' tv, Wii is still stuck with 480p and it just looks "ok". I really don't have as big of a problem with the Wii as I sound, its just I know Nintendo can do better than what they have been doing..and I KNOW they will do better, its just there are too many crappy third-party wannabe titles coming out and clogging up store shelves. Just my two cents...

[realdeal]

well to be honest im kind of disappointed mostly with the wii ... i mean trying to find quality games is hard seems like the games are getting dumber by the min i dont know to me seems like little kids games

i mean why cant they have some real hot action games like on the ps3 http://photosnag.com/img/3012/y09w0131xdtc/82(2).gif

[Sonicwolf]

The Wii has become a black hole of money with a gratuitous amount of SHOVELWARE clogging it up.

[gepeto]

If I recall they said the crash was caused by a boatload of crap just being unloaded on the masses. I wonder why the quality release isn't more tightened.

[demen999]

If I recall they said the crash was caused by a boatload of crap just being unloaded on the masses. I wonder why the quality release isn't more tightened.

I wonder the same. Boojay hit something on Nintendo playing by their own rules. They are going into the NES days of their releases. It's horrible that when people talk about the Wii's greatest games, they are more than a year old. Yes they are fantastic, but damn once you beat them it's usually it. I consider myself a Nintendo Fanboy, so this is kind of weird because it seems like I am bashing the console, which I am not.
I just want to see the company that I came to prefer and enjoy their systems and games to be pushing for more great games and not let Zoo games do their crap. For years I defended the whole Nintendo image, and now I am realizing that I have been blind for the past 2 generations :p
I still prefer Ninty's games, but there gaps of great...no x that, good games is very wide. 1st party usually is the same year in and out, although good...mix it up. Don't let the Wii's green eyed monster take every game that wants to come out...PLEASE stop the Lumberjack game hahaha.

"...its just I know Nintendo can do better than what they have been doing"

THANK YOU Makaar. I know they are the best at what they do, but it's hard to say they are better with the crap out right now. In the small time I have had the 360 I have gotten more games if I compare the same timespan I've had the Wii, and enjoyed them more.

[shopkins]

In every "there's not enough good games on the Wii" thread I've ever seen, there's always what I call the "surprise Zelda" phenomenon. Someone will mention that a new Zelda or a new Mario platformer are almost definitely coming. The thing about that, though, is that even if Nintendo decides to break its recent pattern and grace us with more than one of these games during a console generation, it would almost certainly be at least a year -after- the announcement of these games before they are released. It's just not convincing me that the Wii's console library is strong because maybe, if Nintendo sees fit, in a year or two, there will be more Zelda and Mario games for it.

I agree that the 360 has a steadier stream of stuff that is interesting and isn't so clogged with shovelware. The Wii has some admittedly great games out already, but even a schedule that includes House of the Dead Overkill, Conduit and Madworld is really no comparison to the amount of the recently released and upcoming 360 games that look good. It's like the "pretty good, for the Wii" situation that you always get when talking about how Wii games look visually. This handful of upcoming games will satisfy the tastes of more traditional gamers "pretty good, for the Wii," but just a couple of games like this can't really compare to all the choices out there on the other consoles.

[demen999]

^^ Agreed.
Another things that people keep doing is the whole Wii can't do great graphics. Yes it can, you just don't wanna bother. See below what the prod. of RE5 said:

“When we set out to make ‘Resident Evil 5,’ the guys knew that if you want to make the most powerful, most pretty game, the Wii isn’t the best choice. From a business perspective it may have been, but after making this game we are happy with the choice we made.” - Capcom’s Jun Takeuchi

GONINTENDO LINK (http://gonintendo.com/?p=73617)

[FantasiaWHT]

I dunno about ratio, but there are more Wii games that interest me compared to the other two platforms. And I can't stand Animal Crossing or Endless Ocean. I'm not even that big of a Nintendo fan.

Agree completely. Only a very few 360 games interest me. I have both, but I have bought more many more Wii games, regardless of how many crappy games the system has.

[demen999]

Yeah me too (30+), but I just got 360 in December, and am at 8 or 10 already. I LOVE Endless Ocean, it's soo damn awesome. I wish it had LIVE and a bigger ocean. It is trully one of the most overlooked titles when it came out. No voice chat totally killed the online.

[Flippy8490]

I was so pumped for the Wii when it was announced and when it came out...but they really haven't done much with it. They are just surfing on the novelty of the motion sensitive controllers. Its upsetting, because we all know that Nintendo is capable of some pretty epic stuff, but the Wii is beginning to dissapoint. I pretty much use my Wii for the virtual console and Super mario Galaxy, and my 360 for everything else.

[Bojay1997]

Agree completely. Only a very few 360 games interest me. I have both, but I have bought more many more Wii games, regardless of how many crappy games the system has.

Ok, but can someone please be specific about what new games they have purchased for the Wii in the last 12 months that have been so much better than the variety that's available on the 360? I mean I own all the first party Nintendo stuff and a lot of other games, so numerically, I probably have almost as many Wii games as 360 games, but I can't off the top of my head think of anything that great that has come out since SMG. The only stuff I'm aware of this past year was Animal Crossing and Music (Mario Kart and Super Smash didn't really seem that different than the GC versions to me, so I don't really think those count), both of which I played for about 15 minutes and then quickly put into a storage box, unlikely to ever play again. Even the hyped exclusive releases like Deadly Creatures and Mushroom Men kinda disappointed me in that they really turned out to just be mediocre 3D hack and slash/platform games. House of the Dead Overkill was fun for a couple hours, but it too got old pretty fast. I know for sure that with the exception of SMG and Zelda, I have never spent more than 5 hours playing a single Wii game in total while on the 360, I would say I have played the vast majority of games I own for 8-10 hours and some for a lot longer than that.

[FantasiaWHT]

Ok, but can someone please be specific about what new games they have purchased for the Wii in the last 12 months that have been so much better than the variety that's available on the 360? I mean I own all the first party Nintendo stuff and a lot of other games, so numerically, I probably have almost as many Wii games as 360 games, but I can't off the top of my head think of anything that great that has come out since SMG. The only stuff I'm aware of this past year was Animal Crossing and Music (Mario Kart and Super Smash didn't really seem that different than the GC versions to me, so I don't really think those count), both of which I played for about 15 minutes and then quickly put into a storage box, unlikely to ever play again. Even the hyped exclusive releases like Deadly Creatures and Mushroom Men kinda disappointed me in that they really turned out to just be mediocre 3D hack and slash/platform games. House of the Dead Overkill was fun for a couple hours, but it too got old pretty fast. I know for sure that with the exception of SMG and Zelda, I have never spent more than 5 hours playing a single Wii game in total while on the 360, I would say I have played the vast majority of games I own for 8-10 hours and some for a lot longer than that.

I love how you take two of the strongest points against your argument and try to discount them by saying they're non-entities because they are sequels.

My family puts a lot of time into our Wii games, especially Mario Party 8, Super Mario Galaxy, Super Smash Bros. Melee, Wii Play (I play with my son a couple hours every week), and Wii Fit.

On 360, I've only bought one game new at or near release - Culdcept Saga. The rest I own (GH3, Lost Odyssey, Mass Effect, and another RPG I can never remember because I found it ultra cheap at Blockbuster but haven't actually played) I bought used well after release. GH3 & Culdcept I put a lot of time into but have put aside. The others I haven't spent much time with.

Honestly, though, the time I spend playing Wii & 360 is dwarfed by the time I spend on my DS, and gaming laptops, but I don't say that to try and draw it into the comparison, just to explain why I'm not spending a ton of time on either console.

[Bojay1997]

I love how you take two of the strongest points against your argument and try to discount them by saying they're non-entities because they are sequels.

My family puts a lot of time into our Wii games, especially Mario Party 8, Super Mario Galaxy, Super Smash Bros. Melee, Wii Play (I play with my son a couple hours every week), and Wii Fit.

On 360, I've only bought one game new at or near release - Culdcept Saga. The rest I own (GH3, Lost Odyssey, Mass Effect, and another RPG I can never remember because I found it ultra cheap at Blockbuster but haven't actually played) I bought used well after release. GH3 & Culdcept I put a lot of time into but have put aside. The others I haven't spent much time with.

Honestly, though, the time I spend playing Wii & 360 is dwarfed by the time I spend on my DS, and gaming laptops, but I don't say that to try and draw it into the comparison, just to explain why I'm not spending a ton of time on either console.

It's not just that they are sequels, it's that they are sequels that don't really add anything to the gaming experience. I own every version of Mario Kart from the SNES to the Wii and I also own Super Smash Bros. N64 through to the Wii and I don't really think the Wii versions of either game provide anything amazing to push the respective games forward. They look prettier, but that's not enough to make me want to play them for hours and hours. I think the same thing applies to Project Gotham Racing on the Xbox and 360. I own all four of them, but I'm not gonna sit here and try to convince you that PGR4 is significantly different or better than the first one on the original Xbox.

I can understand how if you have small children, the Wii might be a lot of fun and the games you mentioned are a lot of fun for parties and family gaming. I don't think that's what the original poster is complaining about and it's really not relevant to this whole discussion. The issue is as a more mature gamer who wants to play some great single player games, the Wii hasn't delivered on that front in the same way the 360 has. It's not a criticism of the Wii per se, but it is a problem when the attach rate for the console (i.e. the number of games people actually buy for it) is super low, such that the larger third parties who might actually make more complex games are just plain staying away. It makes the Wii a bad purchase for those of us who bought it at launch and just assumed that Nintendo would find a way to take a highly successful product and leverage that into a great game library that satisfied not just "casual gamers" or kids and families, but also those of us who have been gaming for a very long time. Look, if all Nintendo wants to do is appeal to those family consumers, I have no problem with that since it obviously is very, very profitable. But if that's the case, I would appreciate it if people would stop defending Nintendo and admit that the Wii is not necessarily a system that is great for all of us.

[Rob2600]

Mario Kart and Super Smash didn't really seem that different than the GC versions to me, so I don't really think those count


they are sequels that don't really add anything to the gaming experience.

Online play.

[Sonicwolf]

Online play.

The online for Brawl was a sad laggy nightmare at times.

[j_factor]

Ok, but can someone please be specific about what new games they have purchased for the Wii in the last 12 months that have been so much better than the variety that's available on the 360? I mean I own all the first party Nintendo stuff and a lot of other games, so numerically, I probably have almost as many Wii games as 360 games, but I can't off the top of my head think of anything that great that has come out since SMG. The only stuff I'm aware of this past year was Animal Crossing and Music (Mario Kart and Super Smash didn't really seem that different than the GC versions to me, so I don't really think those count), both of which I played for about 15 minutes and then quickly put into a storage box, unlikely to ever play again.

Honestly, you just mentioned 4 games -- Animal Crossing, Wii Music, Mario Kart, and Smash Bros. -- that I don't give a damn about. But I'll list some games below. I don't know about "so much better" -- I'm not going to claim that the 360 sucks. Actually, the 360 may have "better" games even. What makes me prefer the Wii overall is the quantity (of games that I'm interested in). I don't just play the top 5 best games of the year, I play anything that's fun.

Some Wii games of the past year:

House of the Dead: Overkill
Tenchu: Shadow Assassins
Sam & Max Season One
Dokapon Kingdom
Tales of Symphonia: Dawn of the New World
Shaun White Snowboarding Road Trip
King of Fighters Collection: The Orochi Saga
Order Up!
de Blob
Wario Land: Shake It
Harvest Moon: Tree of Tranquility
Lost in Blue: Shipwrecked
Boom Blox
Speed Racer
Baroque
Okami
Blast Works
Castle of Shikigami III
House of the Dead 2 & 3 Return
No More Heroes
Pinball Hall of Fame: The Williams Collection


Even the hyped exclusive releases like Deadly Creatures and Mushroom Men kinda disappointed me in that they really turned out to just be mediocre 3D hack and slash/platform games. House of the Dead Overkill was fun for a couple hours, but it too got old pretty fast. I know for sure that with the exception of SMG and Zelda, I have never spent more than 5 hours playing a single Wii game in total while on the 360, I would say I have played the vast majority of games I own for 8-10 hours and some for a lot longer than that.

I like shorter games. Some of my favorite games of all time are games that can be beaten in one sitting. They remain my favorites because I can come back later, and play through it again. If a game is 40+ hours long, I'm not likely to ever bother reaching the ending. After I've spent a certain amount of time on a game, I want to move on to something else.

Sonic 2 is considered one of the best platformers ever, and how long does it take to get through? Half an hour? Parappa the Rapper was a pretty big hit and practically spawned a whole genre, and the game is what, 40 minutes long? I don't know when or why "longer=better" became the rule, but I don't like it. And by the way, House of the Dead is a light gun game, how long do you really expect it to be?

[demen999]

Wow I have brought up some subject! It's sad that it seems like I'm bad mouthing Nintendo (My favorite co.), but when something is wrong...it's wrong. They need to stop all this fluff they got going on, and step up those games. Look at Halo, MS biggest franchise. What did they do, turn it into a RTS! Guess what, IT WORKS. Find different ways to convey the same characters if you don't want to change them or do new ones. Give us something different, new, and still with that Nintendo polished quality.

[Bojay1997]

Honestly, you just mentioned 4 games -- Animal Crossing, Wii Music, Mario Kart, and Smash Bros. -- that I don't give a damn about. But I'll list some games below. I don't know about "so much better" -- I'm not going to claim that the 360 sucks. Actually, the 360 may have "better" games even. What makes me prefer the Wii overall is the quantity (of games that I'm interested in). I don't just play the top 5 best games of the year, I play anything that's fun.

Some Wii games of the past year:

House of the Dead: Overkill
Tenchu: Shadow Assassins
Sam & Max Season One
Dokapon Kingdom
Tales of Symphonia: Dawn of the New World
Shaun White Snowboarding Road Trip
King of Fighters Collection: The Orochi Saga
Order Up!
de Blob
Wario Land: Shake It
Harvest Moon: Tree of Tranquility
Lost in Blue: Shipwrecked
Boom Blox
Speed Racer
Baroque
Okami
Blast Works
Castle of Shikigami III
House of the Dead 2 & 3 Return
No More Heroes
Pinball Hall of Fame: The Williams Collection



I like shorter games. Some of my favorite games of all time are games that can be beaten in one sitting. They remain my favorites because I can come back later, and play through it again. If a game is 40+ hours long, I'm not likely to ever bother reaching the ending. After I've spent a certain amount of time on a game, I want to move on to something else.

Sonic 2 is considered one of the best platformers ever, and how long does it take to get through? Half an hour? Parappa the Rapper was a pretty big hit and practically spawned a whole genre, and the game is what, 40 minutes long? I don't know when or why "longer=better" became the rule, but I don't like it. And by the way, House of the Dead is a light gun game, how long do you really expect it to be?

Yes, games in previous generations were shorter. We don't live in previous generations and I'm not 12 years old anymore. Hey, like I said, if you like short games, the Wii is probably a great system for you. I'm looking for very in-depth gaming experiences and again, I believe that's what the original post is about. There is no technical reason the Wii can't play more complex games, right?

I have every one of those games you listed above and the only games that kept my attention for more than a couple of hours were Baroque (also available in an identical version on PS2), Tales of Symphonia and Tenchu. I can't help but notice a lot of straight up PS2 ports which did nothing to take advantage of the Wii control scheme on that list and several games that really weren't good at all (Lost in Blue was terrible compared to the DS games). So to clarify, if anyone has examples of games similar to Bioshock, Halo 3, Fallout 3, Oblivion, Fable 2, etc in complexity and depth for the Wii, I would love to hear about them. Otherwise, let's just agree that the Wii is not designed or is not being used for those type of gaming experiences.

[j_factor]

Yes, games in previous generations were shorter. We don't live in previous generations and I'm not 12 years old anymore. Hey, like I said, if you like short games, the Wii is probably a great system for you. I'm looking for very in-depth gaming experiences and again, I believe that's what the original post is about. There is no technical reason the Wii can't play more complex games, right?

I have every one of those games you listed above and the only games that kept my attention for more than a couple of hours were Baroque (also available in an identical version on PS2), Tales of Symphonia and Tenchu. I can't help but notice a lot of straight up PS2 ports which did nothing to take advantage of the Wii control scheme on that list and several games that really weren't good at all (Lost in Blue was terrible compared to the DS games). So to clarify, if anyone has examples of games similar to Bioshock, Halo 3, Fallout 3, Oblivion, Fable 2, etc in complexity and depth for the Wii, I would love to hear about them. Otherwise, let's just agree that the Wii is not designed or is not being used for those type of gaming experiences.

I agree completely, the Wii is not being used for that type of gaming experience (with perhaps a tiny handful of exceptions). But that's not what you asked for. You're moving the goalposts.

[Rob2600]

if anyone has examples of games similar to Bioshock, Halo 3, Fallout 3, Oblivion, Fable 2, etc in complexity and depth for the Wii, I would love to hear about them.

I don't know if this is the answer you're looking for, but

Battalion Wars 2
Bully: Scholarship Edition
Call of Duty: World at War
Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn
The Godfather: Blackhand Edition
The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess
Medal of Honor Heroes 2
Metroid Prime 3: Corruption
Resident Evil 4: Wii Edition

are "mature," polished, in-depth Wii games.

[Cobra Commander]

The only Wii game I'm really looking forward to this year is this:
http://tmntgame.us.ubi.com/

[FantasiaWHT]

I have every one of those games you listed above

I'm fascinated that you're complaining about a lack of games to play, but apparently have bought WAY more games than the average Wii owner. If you're upset about the quantity of in-depth games as you say, why are you buying all these games?

[ghsqb]

The Wii definitely has some good games out for it.
There is an insane amount of shovelware, but the good games are there also.

I have all 3 current gen systems and my favorite of the bunch is the 360.

If you take the best games on the 60 and line them up against the best for the other systems...IMHO the 360 is the winner.

To the OP, if you want a great game with a great story on your 360, try Mass Effect next.

[unwinddesign]

I don't know if this is the answer you're looking for, but

Battalion Wars 2
Bully: Scholarship Edition
Call of Duty: World at War
Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn
The Godfather: Blackhand Edition
The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess
Medal of Honor Heroes 2
Metroid Prime 3: Corruption
Resident Evil 4: Wii Edition

are "mature," polished, in-depth Wii games.

The only titles there remotely close in quality to Fallout 3, Fable 2, GoW2, Halo 3, Bioshock etc. are Zelda and MP3. Resident Evil 4 has been released approximately 1,000 times already, so it's kind of a toss up there...although the 360/PS3 have RE5 so it's kind of moot anyway. I would have put HotD Overkill and Mad World on that list before Medal of Honor Heroes 2 (seriously, what the hell).

Bottom line is that jack shit worth of good titles have been coming out for the Wii. There's been a few trickling out, but not many recently. There's even less that fans of "R" rated material would dig. This fall was owned by the 360. I've bought nothing for my Wii since Mario Kart, and I don't really feel like I've missed out on any great gaming experiences at all.

[Press_Start]

Bottom line is that jack shit worth of good titles have been coming out for the Wii. There's been a few trickling out, but not many recently. There's even less that fans of "R" rated material would dig.

http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=127866

Statement...this thread below wants to have a chat, prove you wrong, beat the crap out of you, and bury your broken carcass in the cemetery of FAIL! :deadhorse:

[Greg2600]

Imagine how many systems/games Microsoft could have sold if the consoles weren't land mines?

[demen999]

Imagine how many systems/games Microsoft could have sold if the consoles weren't land mines?

Even tho I love my new 360, I am surprised that MS has gotten this popular in games. They really have turned their games and system around. Regardless of the RRoD :p

[Greg2600]

Even tho I love my new 360, I am surprised that MS has gotten this popular in games. They really have turned their games and system around. Regardless of the RRoD :p

Well, they brought together console and PC gaming into one system, more or less, with the XBox and 360. In addition, Microsoft, unlike Nintendo, has followed Sony's example from previous Gen's and paid a lot of money to developers to get "3rd party" developers to make exclusive games. Xbox Live is something that has existed for a while in PC gaming. Lobby, voicechat, large multiplayer servers, the works. In fact, Microsoft was one of the early providers of said services with the old MSN Gaming site. All the LucasArt games were on it, for instance. They made the Xbox and 360 much easier to port with PC versions, which drew in the PC developers. Also, while they are restricted in a sense, the fact that the 360 is still DVD is a big plus for developers. If the fools had just bit the bullet and redesigned the 360 to prevent the RROD with the GPU, they might have headed off a lot of Nintendo's steam. It amazes me that they still haven't done a redesign. I may never buy the system simply for that fact. Can't be trusted.

[demen999]

Your missing out of you dont even get it. Really cool games, complement the Wii very well. On the Wii side Nintendo makes a great system and I have rarely ever had a problem with their systems. My son put quarters in the wii game slot, I had to open it to get them and and it is still running fine.
MS 3rd party power is insane right now, hope nintendo can somehow get to that level.

[unwinddesign]

http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=127866

Statement...this thread below wants to have a chat, prove you wrong, beat the crap out of you, and bury your broken carcass in the cemetery of FAIL! :deadhorse:

Oh, like the Conduit maybe? Or Madworld? Which doesn't even run in 480p? Or maybe that awesome Dead Rising port?

There's been nothing on the Wii for like a year. There's been some decent games, but no AAA titles since Mario Kart Wii. I don't see anything in the foreseeable future to change that. As far as I can tell, the best game to come out in the last six months was World of Goo, and that was a Wii Ware game. It's been fucking barren, whereas the PS3 and 360 have been getting a ton of awesome exclusives.

Or maybe those awesome Gamecube ports with new added motion controls. Alright! Something to finally play...[/sarcasm]

I'm just stating the facts. I don't have anything to play on my Wii. I'd like something. Impress me, Nintendo.

[JunkTheMagicDragon]

It amazes me that they still haven't done a redesign. I may never buy the system simply for that fact. Can't be trusted.

there have been three major hardware revisions: zephyr, falcon, and jasper (not counting opus) following the original xenon. the next revision, valhalla, will probably be here next year. all designed to reduce costs and the rrod. apparently the jaspers are much more robust. i wouldn't know though; my xenon is still happily churning away.

[Trebuken]

The only titles there remotely close in quality to Fallout 3, Fable 2, GoW2, Halo 3, Bioshock etc. are Zelda and MP3. Resident Evil 4 has been released approximately 1,000 times already, so it's kind of a toss up there...although the 360/PS3 have RE5 so it's kind of moot anyway. I would have put HotD Overkill and Mad World on that list before Medal of Honor Heroes 2 (seriously, what the hell).

Bottom line is that jack shit worth of good titles have been coming out for the Wii. There's been a few trickling out, but not many recently. There's even less that fans of "R" rated material would dig. This fall was owned by the 360. I've bought nothing for my Wii since Mario Kart, and I don't really feel like I've missed out on any great gaming experiences at all.

Actually Okami is as good as any of those games, though port, and arguably an inferior one, it can compare...

Otherwise I agree. First party Wii games rock...everything else seems half-hearted.

Does anyone believe the COnduit will be at all comparable to Gears of War or Resistance, or Killzone 2, or even the dated looking Halo 3? Do you think waving a Wii controller around is going to be a superior control scheme? Is the Conduit all hype simply because of a desperate marketing effort to make the Wii appeal to someone more than 10 years old?

It'll probably be OK. Metroid Prime 3 was a great game but I the controls made it onferioe to either 1 or 2. Of course it was probably originally designed for the Gamecube...

The best games are often made at the end of a consoles lifecycle. 2009 heralds the end of the Wii's lifecycle (IMO). There is nothing left in the hardware (I suspect), and Wii motion will take awhile to become taken advantage of properly...so let's look forward to 2009 as the Wii's hurrah and let the shovelware stay buried...

[demen999]

I hope for Wiis sake that they start churning out the wack and in with the good. Okami is a awesome game (I need to finish it), and is fantasitc. I dont know they diff between the ps2 one and this one, but it's a ok with me! I still have to play Metroid 3.
Waggle power can only go so far when the games are as shallow as Paris Hilton.

[Press_Start]

Oh, like the Conduit maybe? Or Madworld? Which doesn't even run in 480p? Or maybe that awesome Dead Rising port?

There's been nothing on the Wii for like a year. There's been some decent games, but no AAA titles since Mario Kart Wii.


Don't forget Wario Land Shake It, Tales of Symphonia, Super Mario Sluggers, HotD Overkill, No More Heroes, Ultimate Shooting Collection, Castle of Shikigami III, One Piece and tons of "jacksh!t" stuff.


I don't see anything in the foreseeable future to change that.

Punch-out
No More Heroes 2
Sonic and the Black Knight
Fragile
Fatal Frame 4
Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles: Crystal Bearers
Final Fantasy IV: The After
Dragon Quest X
Muramasa: The Demon Blade
Sin and Punishment 2
Klonoa
Dead Space
and finally....
new Mario and Zelda games.



As far as I can tell, the best game to come out in the last six months was World of Goo, and that was a Wii Ware game. It's been fucking barren, whereas the PS3 and 360 have been getting a ton of awesome exclusives.


Exclusives?! When it comes to software, 360 and PS3 have been like Siamese twins. What ever one gets, it'll be ported to the other. The only good exclusives (mostly) found on either are RPGs and their respected FPS (i.e. Resistance for PS3, Halo and Gears of War for 360). The Wii excels in this category for counsels especially when you cut all the crap off. Ironically, its the portable market (DS and PSP) which hold the most exclusives this generation. At least half the games for each library dwarfs the others to shame.



Or maybe those awesome Gamecube ports with new added motion controls. Alright! Something to finally play...[/sarcasm]


Oh I can't wait for [insert upcoming FPS title here] to come out, so I can start pumping lead into [insert zombie/alien/monster army name here] for like the gazillionth time! [/sarcasm]



I'm just stating the facts. I don't have anything to play on my Wii. I'd like something. Impress me, Nintendo.

No, you're doing the opposite, taking YOUR opinion and forcing it down OUR thoughts. The reason I linked the thread in my previous post was to disprove the myth about all non-1st party games are sh!tty. There are dozens of good titles ready to picked and many more coming soon. And you're right, you don't have to play the Wii, there are plenty of consoles out there to enjoy with just as many games. There's always a choice.

Can't find anything good for the Wii? Ok, all gamers have different tastes when it comes to games. Just cause you're not content with it, the same shouldn't be imply for the rest of us. Hypothetically, if someone stated the 360 was full of mediocre FPS, would you agree to such a claim?

Having more fun with the 360 or PS3? Ok, no one's twisting your arm and forcing a Wiimote in hand. By chance, you do happen a game you like? By all means and share with the rest of us, isn't that the point of gaming?

[mnbren05]

Both have many solid games but I understand your "beef" with the Wii. I tend to play my 360/PS3 more often because I enjoy the games more. Don't get me wrong I love some Wii games (Zelda, SSB, and others) but at times many of the games feel like mini game mash ups. Partly I think because the Wii excels in matching their controls to particular types of games.

[Rob2600]

Madworld? Which doesn't even run in 480p?

Yeah, because a game has to run at 480p or higher or else it's automatically garbage.

Regarding AAA Wii games that came out after Mario Kart, there was de Blob, Call of Duty: World at War, Guitar Hero: World Tour (the highest-selling version, by the way), Rock Band 2, and World of Goo.

I know, I know...for one reason or another, those won't count.

[The Clonus Horror]

I traded in my Wii for a 360 and do not regret it. That being said, I put the most time into Mario Galaxy and SSBB. I also enjoyed downloading River City Ransom, Super Metroid, Super C, and others.

[demen999]

I was actually somewhat upset at Madworld running in 480i, just because of how awesome the visuals are. Then again the guy from IGN (Matt) said you couldn't tell that it wasn't running on progressive, which I find it somewhat hard to believe due to the contrast of the BW and sharpness of the lines.
Galaxy was and is awesome, very well made. One of the few games that really shine on the Wii.

[unwinddesign]

blah.

I don't see one AAA title listed there.

Nintendo got me into gaming. I have nothing against them. Yes, I happen to like FPS games; no, they are not my favorite genre. I'm not forcing my opinion down anyone's throat. You chose to respond. People don't care what I have to say, otherwise the Wii would sell like shit. That being said, people have voted with their wallets and, despite the Wii having the cheapest games and largest install base, it has the lowest attach rate.

How you can equate "AAA" titles with stuff like Final Fantasy spin-offs is, honestly, a joke. We all know what AAA means, and when the best selling system has very few AAA titles -- particularly 3rd party ones -- I take issue with that. Doesn't mean there's nothing worth playing. I never said that. I said that a few good games have been trickling out, and they have.

If I see a new Zelda game at E3 or whenever, that would be awesome. That would be exciting. Better 3rd party support would be exciting too. Games don't have to have uber production values to be good. Clean visuals, within the limitations of the Wii, and unique gameplay are just as good. There's some stuff in 2009 that looks good. But where are the big guns?

@Rob: I know you defend the Wii to the death, but calling CoD a AAA game on any platform is just a lie. Rock Band 2 and GH: WT are superior on other platforms for a myriad of reasons, namely the availability of DLC. I already mentioned World of Goo. I also never said Madworld was garbage because it ran in 480i, just inferred that it was unacceptable, especially for a visual heavy game.

[Press_Start]

I don't see one AAA title listed there.

Tell me do you see the world through the eyes of a 10-year-old ADD child


I'm not forcing my opinion down anyone's throat.




Bottom line is that jack shit worth of good titles have been coming out for the Wii. There's been a few trickling out, but not many recently.





How you can equate "AAA" titles with stuff like Final Fantasy spin-offs is, honestly, a joke.





@Rob: I know you defend the Wii to the death, but calling CoD a AAA game on any platform is just a lie.



I rest my case.



You chose to respond.


To a crappy and false statement based on unsounded argument easily disproved by simply pulling your head out of the bargain bin and actually playing the games.



People don't care what I have to say, otherwise the Wii would sell like shit.


Yet you keep coming back.



That being said, people have voted with their wallets and, despite the Wii having the cheapest games and largest install base, it has the lowest attach rate.


Says who? State your sources? Or forever put your foot in your mouth.



How you can equate "AAA" titles with stuff like Final Fantasy spin-offs is, honestly, a joke.

Umm...Megaman 9? Instant classic from day 1? Return to 8-bit glory? Made by Capcom? Does that ring any bells?



We all know what AAA means, and when the best selling system has very few AAA titles -- particularly 3rd party ones -- I take issue with that.


Miraculously, this is where you and I agree. The reason, I believe, for there being "a lack of good titles" (with the exception of Capcom, Sega, Square and a few others) is 3rd party developers has been acting like a bunch of arrogant pricks. In order for good games to be on a system, someone has to make them first and developers has been reluctant to do so on the Wii for who knows why. I mean, the same companies who've developed back in the 8/16-bit days can't come up with a fun, "non-mature" product for a console?

[Rob2600]

@Rob: I know you defend the Wii to the death, but calling CoD a AAA game on any platform is just a lie. Rock Band 2 and GH: WT are superior on other platforms for a myriad of reasons, namely the availability of DLC.

Call of Duty: World at War on the Wii received an 8.4 out of 10 overall. That seems like a very good score to me.

Guitar Hero: World Tour and Rock Band 2 on the Wii both feature full DLC.

[G-Boobie]

Jesus, there's too much drama in this goddamn thread.

Firstly, the Wii is not a console for the 'hardcore gamer'. Nintendo has explicitly stated that they are 'not in competition with Sony and Microsoft', which is a good thing for those guys, because if they were, they'd be getting their asses kicked.

Strictly speaking, the demographic for Wii and Wii games is an entirely different group of people than the PS3/360 crowd. Soccer moms, younger kids, and Nintendorks. I think that's fine. If third parties want to brave the flood and release hardcore games on the platform, more power to them. That hasn't historically ended up well for anyone not named Nintendo, but them's the breaks.

Secondly, Nintendo has always had the lowest quality assurance standards of the big three. "Charlie's Angels" was rejected for Xbox and PS2, but the big N let it release. The 'seal of quality' ain't what it used to be, and as a result, you get a landslide of complete and utter shit for both Wii and DS. A quick look at the shelves of your local Best Buy, Meijers, or Wal-Mart will confirm that. And so what? You don't have to buy it. PS3 and 360 have had their duds too: Vampire Rain, Untold Legends, The launch Gundam PS3 game, Perfect Dark Zero... These are not good games. There are plenty of shady arcade games and Backbone ports available for download on both systems as well. Shit happens, especially when it comes to five dollar games. The GOOD games on Wii and DS are more than enough to justify the purchase for some people.


Here's a thread of 'hardcore' Wii games I started a while ago. (http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=127866) That's that. There's plenty to play there, and if nothing on there seems interesting, then sell the stupid thing on Craigslist and don't invite the wrath of the Nintendorks, who are the craziest fanboys on the internet. They're even worse than PS3 Nazis and Xbots.

What boggles my mind is the weird 'opposing battle lines' mentality that people take in the alleged 'console wars'. Hey, guess what? Sony, Microsoft, and especially Nintendo, don't give a shit about you. At all. Period. They're corporations. They don't care about your opinions. The only thing they want from your 'loyalty' is your money. All of it, if it's possible to get it. Defining yourself by your choice of expensive gaming hardware is outright ridiculous. Rob2600, I like you bro, but I'm looking squarely at you. Press Start is in my periph, but you're both entering IronDraggon territory here.

Relax, play some Wii Fit, and try to remember that when someone criticizes Nintendo for 'abandoning the core audience', they aren't insulting your mother.

[Rob2600]

Defining yourself by your choice of expensive gaming hardware is outright ridiculous. Rob2600, I like you bro, but I'm looking squarely at you.

When someone posts that the Wii versions of Guitar Hero: World Tour and Rock Band 2 don't feature DLC, I feel the need to correct that person. Those games do feature DLC on the Wii. I'm just stating facts and setting the record straight.

I know I was very excited for a while after the Wii was released, but I think I've mellowed out quite a bit over the last several months regarding my Wii posts. :)

[j_factor]

you're both entering IronDraggon territory here.

LOL

I think these conversations would be better if certain terminology was removed from the lexicon. Terms like "AAA", "casual gamer", and "hardcore gamer" are just stupid gaming industry buzzwords with no real meaning. I mean, every form of art criticism has its own vocabulary, but these are just lazy words. At least no one has said "killer app" yet.

[demen999]

We forgot about Megaton!!
No seriously guys, I didn't mean to make this thread be some kind of system battlewar in 4th grade. I love the Wii and Nintendo, for what they have brought out. But I am seriously not as pleased after I saw/played another part of gaming that's out there. I used to defend Nintendo big time, but those days have gone mostly.
I know Nintendo or MS doesn't give a shit bout me, but I sometimes feel the need to support and defend what I like or invest money into. That is more of a personal thing and not so much a company thing. It makes you feel good to feel that you really are happy with hat you bought and whats coming out, I don't consider that to be fanboyish to the least. G-Bobbie, you are right about the seal of quality, it has done nothing for quality as of late. I hope they bring back the Iron hand that ruled the software market. Then again Yamauchi was a weirdo!