New cornerstone for my Saturn Collecton: D&D Collection

[maxlords]

I FINALLY managed to get a copy of D&D Collection for the Saturn recently from a buddy in Tokyo and it arrived today! It's not the normal version however. It comes in a big cardboard box (with the same art as the cover of the case) and has the game and a 4 Meg RAM cart as well. What I did notice however, is that there's no spine with this version. I'm pretty much certain that it's complete and mint (VERY mint) but no spine. Do the 4 Meg RAM cart pack in games have spines? Or not? Does anyone know?

Also...anyone know about what this is worth? I've seen ONE on eBay in the recent past: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3024395913&category=27246 but mine is in much better condition!

[Tempest]

God Ive been wanting to get my hands on the D&D collection, but I refuse to pay $80 for it. How does it play though? Is it arcade perfect?

Tempest

[maxlords]

I actually haven't had a chance to play it yet...probably won't get to for a week or so...just staring at it mostly for now :) And I have Sengoku Blade on the way in the mail too! Life is good!

[IntvGene]

I pre-ordered D&D collection when it was being released, way back when. I already had the 4-meg cart, so I don't know if there should be a spine card with yours or not.

But, I was really disappointed with the game when I got it. I find that the load times just kill gameplay. I also wished that there was some way to earn continues, because you have unlimited contiinues, and will basically beat the game in your first sitting. It was impressive what they did with the Saturn, porting over an arcade game like that though. It was a nice try, but I was hoping for more.

[BenT]

It's far from arcade perfect, unfortunately. Fair amount of loading. One of the two games is worse, but I forget which one. Believe it or not, there's a fair amount of in-game Japanese, which decreases my enjoyment somewhat.

All in all, not Capcom's best, and not worth the big bucks it goes for. (I paid 70 some months back, but saw it in a Japanese shop in 9/02 for over 100... Yikes.)

Edit: Good god, that ebay auction makes me weep.

[Atari7800]

I have to disagree... I think both games are fun as hell. I played the crap out of both games at an arcade across town years ago, and these are spot-on perfect from what I can tell (aside from the Japanese text!)

That being said, the loading times do SUCK which is surprising for a RAM rart supported game.

[Ed Oscuro]

I don't see how having some extra RAM would help load times. Even if you keep some data on that RAM cart, you'll have to load it there in the first place, and while I would suppose you can keep a fair amount of data on that 4MB pack, it's not nearly as much as a normal Saturn disk will hold.

Odd this topic should come up; I just was looking at a copy of the D&D collection + RAM cart. Was there a "non-huge" normal release of the game that came with the RAM cart?

[Vroomfunkel]

I have to agree with the nay-sayers on this one. I spent ages trying to get hold of this game, and was really happy when I finally did. Then I played it ... and although the action is fairly fun, those loading times just made it unbearable. I wouldn't have minded if it had just been at the end of each level - but no, every couple of screen-lengths you walk you get another wait. Which gets immensely irritating very quickly! I'm afraid it is a game for die-hard fans only. I knew that there were "load time issues" before I bought it, but I was ready to give it a chance, on the grounds that maybe people were exaggerating or over-reacting (I think myself fairly patient ...) However, I am afraid the truth is that it really killed the game for me. I just sold my copy. I'll stick to Metal Slug and Golden Axe.

Vroomfunkel

P.S. I am pretty sure that the RAM cart boxed version did not come with spine card - just like with X-Men vs. Streetfighter, and Metal Slug.

[Ed Oscuro]

Oh, and as for that RAM cart:

The Shadows over Mystara game ROMs total around 17.3MB (if you count the extra ROMs in the US version over the universal ROMset) and Tower of Doom is 11.8MB. Add about 2.7 MB for the US ROMset changes and you've got an idea how big those are.

[BenT]

I don't see how having some extra RAM would help load times. Even if you keep some data on that RAM cart, you'll have to load it there in the first place, and while I would suppose you can keep a fair amount of data on that 4MB pack, it's not nearly as much as a normal Saturn disk will hold. Two words: clever programming. Capcom was able to make its 4 Meg Vampire Savior and Vs. series ports nigh-on loadless, apart from an initial load. I think it could have probably done much better than it did with D&D except that the project was quite delayed and probably rushed at the end.

[Ed Oscuro]

Vampire Savior games were RATHER different. There, you had well-defined times for loading, and you had a set number of things happening onscreen that were quite manageable in RAM. The D&D games, on the other hand, have tons of different monster types appearing in one scene--not at the same time, but they have to be ready to appear. You also have the items to worry about. Compared to Vampire Savior games, D&D is a game that does significantly better in ROM format, where access times are low enough that you can simply swap one set of characters/sprites/etc out with another during the game.

Indeed, it might have been possible to make a game that was without loading (besides the initial game) ala Soul Reaver, where parts of the game are loaded in the background. Theoretically, it would just be a matter of loading the game in chunks (should be easier to do if you're just juggling a couple sprites and background graphics all on the same flat geometry--certainly, less of a task than making a seamless 3D world that loads from the disk at runtime).

IF the game uses CD audio, or anything similar (like the proprietary audio formats different PSX games use,) then it would have been impossible to do any better. You can't load and play CD Audio at the same time, though the system should've been able to emulate the arcade game's sound.

The problem with all this fun and happiness is that it's fairly obvious D&D was pushing the capabilities of that system in terms of game data stored. While I don't think that the actual game mechanics were too demanding on the processor, the amount of data that you might run across at any time was pretty darn large. Combine this with the low priority R&D for a simple arcade port would command, and it shouldn't be a shock that the game works like it does. Of course, I'm speaking just from knowing about the arcade game, but looking at that I see reason to expect that there was a lot available to the system at any time.

Finally, the Saturn was notoriously difficult to develop for--with a large number of custom chips, the task of making some sort of "loads at runtime" system would've been quite a bit more difficult.

Yes, I saw your remarks coming before I even made the post, but I still went ahead and made them.

[maxlords]

Odd this topic should come up; I just was looking at a copy of the D&D collection + RAM cart. Was there a "non-huge" normal release of the game that came with the RAM cart?

As far as I know, the RAM cart version had a quite low print run. I've seen less than 10 of them for sale EVER. I'm just going by availability though, I don't know the exact numbers!

[BenT]

Indeed, I have the standalone version.

[Ed Oscuro]

Hmm, I'd better try and get one then. I know I just wrote a few paragraphs, but I'd be a little more confident if I had actually played this version of the game (I still believe it's true, though).

[maxlords]

I need to hook up my import Saturn and play it myself. Can't play it on the domestic Saturn...no PAR! Doh!

[Nomeaz1]

The RAM packs do not come with a spine card, however they do come with a registration card.

Fun game, but the load times are brutal.

[buttasuperb]

Yep, the RAM version do not have spine cards, and they also do not have the back insert to the CD case.

[maxlords]

D&D Collection has the back insert...probably cause it's a two disc game in a double jewel case ;) Yay! But on the upside, that means my X-Men Vs. Streetfighter is complete! Joy!

Also, I cracked out the skeleton Saturn and sat down with D&D Collection this evening for about 30 min. My thoughts:

1. More English than I expected, but I wish the damned spells were in English..that's semi-frustrating.

2. Load times are NOT bad, just fairly frequent. It's still only a few seconds between sections, just that it flashes to that awful "Now Loading" screen. I actually think there's not much difference between the arcade version and the home one there. There's a couple second hand time on the arcade one too, and I'd say this has a 4 second load time between sections...all in all, not too bad. Try playing a fighting game on the Neo Geo CD sometime..THEN you'll think twice about bitching about D&D!

3. Looks AMAZING with S-Video...nearly arcade perfect..but not quite. I noticed a bit of missing detail in the level up screens, and a slight lessening of the brightness of the colors compared to the arcade version. Overall...a VERY good port.

4. The controls.....I don't like having to use the X button for the weapon switch, but I think that you can change that in the option menu, which is conveniently fully in English! :) Yay! Overall, great control. Elves suck ass against Troglodites though...no reach with that panty-waist short sword!

5. Dragons still kick my ass

6. I don't see how they could have done this game with limited continues. It's too hard to get anywhere if you want any challenge out of the enemies. It was a quarter feeder hardcore in the arcade (I used to go and run a whole roll of quarters thru it) and it's a credit feeder now. It's fun..so who cares?

Overall, it's not nearly as bad as everyone made it out to be...I was all worried...then I started playing it. Granted, Tenchi Wo Kurau 2 (Dynasty Wars 2/Warriors of Fate for the import impaired) has longer levels and less load time, but hell, it's D&D Collection! It's memories of time in the arcade, and to me, that's worthwhile :) I guess if I wasn't so fond of hte game to begin with, it might be irritating, but overall, it's not bad for a chance to play it on a console. I just wish I could read what they were saying or get a translation guide....but I'm sure there's one on gamefaqs somewhere.

[IntvGene]

I didn't want you to think that it was a bad game. But, back in the day, I had bought Xmen vs Street Fighter and Marvel vs Street Fighter, and Capcom did such an excellent job with them. So, I drooled over the pictures of D&D collection for months, pre-ordered the import and then when I finally got to play it, the loading times were a little annoying. I was disappointed back then because I was expecting Capcom to pull off something that probably couldn't be done with the Saturn's hardware.

But, I'm glad that you're happy with your purchase.