Commodore 64 Noob Help

[Pezcore343]

I've been thinking about getting myself a Commodore 64 for a while now, and I was wondering what I would need to get myself started. Do I need to get a monitor for it or can I hook it up with an RF unit? Does it require anything other than the system itself? I've seen a few auctions on eBay, but since I have no experience with the system it's hard to tell which ones are good to go and which will need extra purchases.

Also, any games to recommend to someone just buying a Commodore?

[Jorpho]

Mayhap you should consider getting one of the DTV units, especially since you don't seem to know much about the system? They can easily be modded to accept a variety of C64 peripherals.

[Porksta]

I have a complete untouched boxed Commodore 64C I am looking to unload if you are interested. You need a television but outside of that I have no idea.

[Trebuken]

Should be able to hook it up to a TV with composite connections or Rf, depends what cable it includes. I want to say it can do S-video as well but I have never hooked it up in that manner...

You can settle for just a C64 and play carts but you should pick up a 5 1/4" drive. You don't want to just play cart games on a C64. Add a joystick and a couple games and your good to go...

Most enthusiasts recommend getting a Commodore monitor...

[icbrkr]

Monitor or TV will work if it accepts composite.

Another definite is a fastload cartridge (say, Epyx's Fast Loader) unless you feel like staring at your 1541 until the next millinium while it loads a game. Besides that, you should be good.

If you're looking at making disks from disk images and you have an old PC lying around, consider picking up an XE1541 cable and Star Commander to make them.

You can go one further and look for an MMC64 or equiv cartridge so you can bring your disk images over on a memory card, plug it into a cart on your C64 and make your disks that way.

[Soviet Conscript]

all you need is the system (plus power cables) and a disk drive (and its cables)

it hooks up to a tv fine with a standard RF or if you have the special composite cable (it does not have standard composite output)



I have a complete untouched boxed Commodore 64C I am looking to unload if you are interested. You need a television but outside of that I have no idea.

the C version is my favorite. not really any diffrent but just alot sleeker


Should be able to hook it up to a TV with composite connections or Rf, depends what cable it includes. I want to say it can do S-video as well but I have never hooked it up in that manner...

You can settle for just a C64 and play carts but you should pick up a 5 1/4" drive. You don't want to just play cart games on a C64. Add a joystick and a couple games and your good to go...

Most enthusiasts recommend getting a Commodore monitor...

yhea, the commodore monitor is an awsome all around monitor, the C64 can do S-video but again. its not standard. you need a commodore monitor and a special cable. there may be an adaptor, not sure. some versions of the C64 board can be modded with a standard S-video output. makes things real easy and a nice picture.

[Pezcore343]

What is the Commodore 64C?

[Soviet Conscript]

What is the Commodore 64C?

its just a version of the C64. same computer just put in a nicer looking shell. some other things done on the motherboard as well...but really, the same thing better sleeker look.

here.

C64
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Commodore64.jpg

C64C
http://www.old-computers.com/museum/photos/commodore_64c_1.jpg

[zektor]

S-Video can only be hooked up with later model (*some*) 64C's and C128 models. I say some 64C's because I have two and only one will work correctly in s-video (with the cable, right to any TV that accepts s-vid)....and I must say it is VERY nice :)

All can output a/v with the proper cable. I purchased a few of these cables on ebay for I think $8 each, so it is not that expensive.

If I were you I would grab a C64 in good working condition (if you need one, contact me...I have a few boxed units), the appropriate a/v cable and some cartridge based games to start. This way you can play some goodies without having to spend extra on a floppy drive and disks right off the bat, and see a little bit about what the computer is all about. Actually, I have a bundle of doubles (carts) that I can throw in with the C64 and a video cable if you are looking.

I love the C64. Admittedly, I only collect carts for it now. Disks are just too fragile and easy to loose data, thus you can never really be sure if you spend your cash on disk based media if it will really work when it arrives. Carts on the other hand are just as durable as carts for any other system. There are MANY disks that are great however, and for this I would recommend some of the more modern day devices (C64TPC..etc) for loading disk images from the PC right to the C64. No disks to fuss that way :)

[Jorpho]

The DTV can be modded for S-Video too, apparently.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C64_Direct-to-TV

[j_factor]

Nobody's recommending a tape drive? :p
*ducks*

[boatofcar]

its just a version of the C64. same computer just put in a nicer looking shell. some other things done on the motherboard as well...but really, the same thing better sleeker look.

here.

C64
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Commodore64.jpg

C64C
http://www.old-computers.com/museum/photos/commodore_64c_1.jpg

Hmm, interesting. According to this (http://www.tomshardware.com/picturestory/487-3-commodore-64-c64.html) site:



Although the Commodore C64C presented a sleeker and more modern-looking enclosure, it wasn't as popular with tinkerers and hobbyists as was the old "Breadbox" model. This led to a switch back to the older form factor in 1987, which once again let hobbyists take advantage of extra space for hardware add-ons that could be mounted inside the Commodore's case.

I didn't know that Commodore went back to the Breadbox after switching to the C64C.

[Soviet Conscript]

Hmm, interesting. According to this (http://www.tomshardware.com/picturestory/487-3-commodore-64-c64.html) site:



I didn't know that Commodore went back to the Breadbox after switching to the C64C.

i didn't know that either. intresting.

my first C64 was the C version so thats probibly why i prefer it. i do think the origional is ugly as sin though.

[zektor]

I love the original model. I started with a Vic-20 before the 64, and when the 64 came out in basically the same mold I felt at home. I still personally prefer the original brown model myself.

[boatofcar]

The C made attempts to make the C64 look more like a generic PC. The breadbox had style.

[Ze_ro]

My recommended system:
Commodore 64 (any version, they're all the same)
Power supply
Appropriate video cable (composite is good enough, but S-Video is nice)
Any Atari style joystick
A Commodore 1541, 1541-II or 1571 disk drive, a serial cable to connect it to the C64, and an appropriate power cord (The 1541-II has a special power adaptor, but the others have an internal power supply, so all you need is the kind of power cable that modern PC's use). Stick with real Commodore drives... third party drives usually have poor compatibility with commercial software.
That is what I consider the bare minimum for enjoying the C64, and will allow you to play pretty much everything. Here are some nice options you might want to consider adding in order to enhance the experience:
An X1541 cable (http://sta.c64.org/xcables.html). I probably should have included this in the "necessary" section, as without one, you're limited to playing legitimate games (yeah, I know, piracy is bad... but do you trust random eBay people to preserve magnetic media?) and cartridges. You can't read/write C64 disks in a modern PC, so you have to use a cable like this to hook up an actual C64 drive. You might also want to keep tabs on the Cyclone 20 Project (http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=40959), which will hopefully prove to be a better option in the future.
A RAM Expansion Unit (REU). This will let you enjoy GEOS... which admittedly is kind of a moot point, as you're not likely to do any professional work with a C64 these days, but half the fun of dicking around with old computers is experiencing the OS, is it not? Not many games will take advantage of an REU, though many disk copy programs will.
A fastload cartridge of some type, as the 1541 is very slow. An Epyx Fastload can be had for about $5 on eBay, though it's not a particularly great product. The best fastload routines are in "freezer" cartridges... these were mostly meant for debugging and cracking copyrights. The Retry Replay (http://www.jschoenfeld.com/products/rreplay_e.htm) is a great product that emulates basically any freezer cartridge. Alternatively, you could get....
JiffyDOS ROMs for the C64 itself and whatever disk drive you get. These increase the speed significantly, with almost perfect compatibility with commercial software. You'll have to open the computer and drive and replace chips, just thought I'd warn you in case you're squeamish about such things.
A flash card adapter. The Cadillac of flash card adapters is undoubtedly the 1541 Ultimate (http://www.1541ultimate.net/content/index.php). It's an expensive piece of kit at €120, but you get what you pay for. This device basically emulates the entire 1541 using disk images read off an SD card... it also provides all the functionality of the Retro Replay, and emulates an REU. This will also allow you to transfer .d64 files to actual disks by mounting the image and then using a disk copy program... though with this in your cartridge port, you won't have much need for floppies. Basically, if you have this, you can forget about all the other stuff I mentioned (Though JiffyDOS is still beneficial, and compatible with the 1541U).
Stuff you definitely won't need:
Modems and printers. These are obsolete, take up space, and are completely worthless in this day and age, unless you specifically want to fiddle with such things.
Tape drives. They're even slower than the 1541, and 99% of software in North America was on disk. These are only useful in Europe, where more tape software came out. However, they are dirt cheap, and very easy to use.

--Zero

[kaedesdisciple]

its just a version of the C64. same computer just put in a nicer looking shell. some other things done on the motherboard as well...but really, the same thing better sleeker look.



I would disagree that it's the "same computer." In the 64C, they updated some of the on-board chips, notably the SID chip. The sound produced is different between the two machines, especially with regards to the use of digitized speech.

[Flack]

For a beginner, they're the same computer.

I agree with Zero's list except I would move the Fastload cartridge up into the required category. The machine isn't much fun without one.

[kaedesdisciple]

I remember having a Mach5 fast loader when I was a kid, anyone else had one or have any information about how it fares in comparison to the Epyx one?

[Ze_ro]

I would move the Fastload cartridge up into the required category. The machine isn't much fun without one.
I don't know... I used a C64 for about 10 years without one, and had plenty of fun. Maybe I just got used to taking a bathroom break while the game was loading or something.

--Zero

[icbrkr]

I don't know... I used a C64 for about 10 years without one, and had plenty of fun. Maybe I just got used to taking a bathroom break while the game was loading or something.

--Zero

You're a sick man. I lasted about 4 days before I headed to Toys R Us to plunk down the $29.95 for the Epyx Fastloader. Waiting was torture!

The Mach5 (and other similar type fast loaders) were faster to boot the initial program but tended to crap out once the game itself started and levels were loaded. The Epyx one tended to be more compatible with in-game level loading on games without a fastloader in its code.

For me, there's only 2 carts to have - Epyx' and the Super Snapshot 5 cart.

[tom]

Get a C128, so much nicer to use, and you get the pleasure of some games autobooting

[kaedesdisciple]

You're a sick man. I lasted about 4 days before I headed to Toys R Us to plunk down the $29.95 for the Epyx Fastloader. Waiting was torture!

The Mach5 (and other similar type fast loaders) were faster to boot the initial program but tended to crap out once the game itself started and levels were loaded. The Epyx one tended to be more compatible with in-game level loading on games without a fastloader in its code.

For me, there's only 2 carts to have - Epyx' and the Super Snapshot 5 cart.

Ah, good to know. Appreciate the info, my good man. I'll have to track down another one after I get my C64 setup running again.

[Ze_ro]

Get a C128, so much nicer to use, and you get the pleasure of some games autobooting
Don't get me wrong, I love the C128 like a son, and I've had one hooked up for about 10 years straight now... but while the added features are nothing short of awesome, I don't think it's worthwhile for a random fan to start off with one. Get a C64 first, and if you become a superfan, look into the C128 later.

--Zero

[tom]

I don't know... I used a C64 for about 10 years without one, and had plenty of fun. Maybe I just got used to taking a bathroom break while the game was loading or something.

--Zero

And UK'ers used TAPES for god sake, fdd was way to expensive for British kids. Ever tried the Epyx games series on tape? You don't want to.....

[Soviet Conscript]

I don't know... I used a C64 for about 10 years without one, and had plenty of fun. Maybe I just got used to taking a bathroom break while the game was loading or something.

--Zero

same here, never even knew fast load carts exsisted when i was a kid. only games i ever had were on disk to.

[Raedon]

Some early C64 units used a 5-pin DIN connector that omitted the C video output. You want the 8-pin.

[Flack]

I don't know... I used a C64 for about 10 years without one, and had plenty of fun. Maybe I just got used to taking a bathroom break while the game was loading or something.

--Zero

I used to play soccer without wearing a cup, too ...

[AdamAnt316]

Here are the tiers of a Commodore 64 addiction, errm, collection:

Basic:
*Commodore 64 (either breadbox or C; I prefer the breadbox type, myself)
*Commodore 1541 disk drive (regular, C, or II)
*TV/Game switch
*Atari-type joysticks

Advanced:
*Commodore 64 (same as above)
*Commodore 1541 (same as above)
*Commodore 1701/1702/1801/1802 monitor with cables
*Fast loader cartridge or JiffyDOS
*Atari-type joysticks
*Commodore 1530/1531/C2N cassette drive

Expert:
*Commodore 128 or 128D
*Commodore 1571 disk drive (preferably two)
*Commodore 1901/1902/1084/1084S monitor with cables
*Commodore 1351 mouse
*Commodore 1750 or 1764 RAM expansion unit
*Commodore-compatible printer (or a suitable printer interface)
*GEOS 64/128 software

Insane:
*All of the above, plus
http://www.electronixandmore.com/adam/images/sx64.jpg

Have fun!
-Adam

[icbrkr]

I think I'm above your last level.

My main machine is:

A C128D w/JiffyDOS
Amiga monitor hooked to it for 80 column mode
uIEC and CMD HD for storage
... as well as 3 1581s
... and a couple of 71s.
Swiftlink for serial access, CLD 512K RAM expansion
Mouse, MMC64 and tons more. I just need a SuperCPU 128 to be put in 'just stupid' category.

It's an older pic, but this is my baby:

http://www.particles.org/newsite/searchresults.php?model_name=Commodore+128&submitButtonName=Submit+Query

I also have a C64GS console so where does that put me? ;)

[Joe West]

if you buy a commie, <should be 128d> & get either a amiga or commie monitor....

[Soviet Conscript]

if you buy a commie, <should be 128d> & get either a amiga or commie monitor....

i'm not for sale and as far as i know i did not come with a monitor

[boatofcar]

if you buy a commie, <should be 128d> & get either a amiga or commie monitor....

Commie? Really? Is that like calling Nintendo "Ninty?" What about Seggy? Turby?

[Tupin]

Okay, so for a Commodore 64, the base unit is the keyboard and and Power/RF switch that can be hooked up to a normal TV? You can add a tape/disk drive, and the cartridge port is built in. Right?

I'm looking into eventually getting one, but I need to know what to look for.

[Pezcore343]

Yeah Tupin, that's kind of the question I was asking as well, not what people's interests are for collecting the system. I just ordered one and it should be here this week. I still need a disk drive because a LOT of the best games are on disk, but no it's not essential. What you listed in the bare minimum.

[Tupin]

Nobody's recommending a tape drive? :p
*ducks*

Hey, at least if you used a Datasette, you got to play Invade-A-Load.

I didn't think the Commodore was so popular in Europe, I thought it was more about the Spectrum/Amstrad/Amiga/Atari ST over there.

[icbrkr]

The C64 was stupidly popular in the UK and Germany. They really helped in keeping the machine alive for a lot longer than most places would have.

[Mayhem]

Hey, at least if you used a Datasette, you got to play Invade-A-Load.

I didn't think the Commodore was so popular in Europe, I thought it was more about the Spectrum/Amstrad/Amiga/Atari ST over there.

Depends on the country. As Icbrkr mentions, the UK and Germany had big followings (though the Speccy was bigger in the UK until the late 80s) along with Netherlands, Poland and most parts of Scandinavia. But most of the big, classic European games came out of the first two countries mentioned. I'm not sure about Germany, but the retail life of the C64 here stretched into 1995 at least (games wise at least) and via mail order for a few more years after that.

[robotriot]

The last commercial C64 magazine in Germany only ended publishing in 2006 (it merged with a retro games magazine and is still available in that form today). The C64 still has a big following here, but I don't know about retail figures though.