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Sniderman
03-07-2009, 12:40 PM
I had heard grumblings that The Usual Offended Suspects were upset that a white guy kills black guys in RE5. This is the first "news" report I've seen on the controversy. (It's from Fox News, so take it with a grain of salt.)

'Resident Evil' Creators Insist Game's Not Racist (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,506504,00.html)

And here's a link to the Google News page with "resident evil 5 racist" as the key words, and the comments are already starting to mount.

Google News items on the racism of RE5 (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&q=resident%20evil%205%20racist&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wn)

-sigh- I thought the whole "monkey-may-be-Obama-shooting-cartoon-racism" arguments were stupid. But this is just...wow. Comments?

Aussie2B
03-07-2009, 01:22 PM
It's just funny to me that people shout "racism!" over this, yet no one was bothered that you kill almost nothing but Hispanics in RE4. But I guess since they're Hispanics from Spain and not Latin America, it's okay. Konami even caved in on this and added in random Asians, Arabs, and Caucasians to kill in RE5, even though it doesn't really make any sense. I guess the general message is: if you're killing people, you're not allowed to set your game in any region of the world unless its population is predominantly white or your main character isn't white.

roushimsx
03-07-2009, 01:24 PM
What offends me are the people crying out that these things are racist. To me, those are the people that have issues and are "racist".

BHvrd
03-07-2009, 01:37 PM
His comments were on the mark and noone else seems to be getting radical about this, the article seems very positive imo I see nothing to sigh about.

heybtbm
03-07-2009, 01:52 PM
Kotaku had a better article yesterday....

http://kotaku.com/5165545/an-informed-expert-speaks-out-on-re5-racism

What's crazy is the comment section. Gamers wishing the game were edited or not released at all. Gamers wishing this (shakes head).

Phyeir
03-07-2009, 02:08 PM
What offends me are the people crying out that these things are racist. To me, those are the people that have issues and are "racist".

Totally agree with you there. It's not like the game is set in Utah and you're blasting a crapload of black people. That wouldn't make sense.

scooterb23
03-07-2009, 02:50 PM
You aren't killing black people...you're killing black zombies. There's a difference.

Jimmy Yakapucci
03-07-2009, 03:36 PM
I remember the whole racial type thing coming up years ago. I believe that they were comparing Rambo, which received an 'R' rating, where he killed Asians, to Scarface, which originally received an 'X' rating where he killed white people. It was reported that the true violence/gore level was about the same, it was just a matter of who was being killed.


JY

carlcarlson
03-07-2009, 03:40 PM
Grand Theft Auto IV promotes terrorism because you play a Serbian (I think) that kills white people. Cops even. Oh my.

SegaAges
03-07-2009, 03:44 PM
Uh, this also means that Lost Odyssey is racist since you kill a buttload of Asians in the game.

Super Street Fighter 2 is racist since Dee Jay and Balrog (M.Bison for the true SF Fans) get pwned unless you are really good at using them.

I thought that one of the RE games took place in the Caribbean too.

Nebagram
03-07-2009, 03:56 PM
Sigh. How many white people did CJ terminate in San Andreas without sparking a race war? The game's set in Africa. It all the zombies were caucasian they'd be screaming 'apartheid supporter' or something. I really do think political correctness itself is one of the most un-PC things around. Hopefully the people who promote it will realise the paradox and shrink down upon themselves and vanish up their own fundaments. I just hope the sheer suction power of their anal retentiveness doesn't take the rest of the universe with it when they go.

Graham Mitchell
03-07-2009, 04:25 PM
I don't know which portion of society is crying racism, but I'll add something that may be important to keep in mind.

First off, a medical study was conducted several years ago where they asked African Americans questions about HIV. One of things that was concerning, if not totally shocking, was that something like 1/3 of the people they surveyed thoroughly believed that HIV was created in a lab by the U.S. government for malicious reasons.

The thing is, they tend to think that way based on experience. In the Tuskegee Syphilis study in the 30's, African Americans in Tuskegee Alabama were enrolled in a study and told they were being treated for syphilis when, in actuality, the researchers were just allowing the disease to progress to tertiary syphillis in order to study the pathology of syphilis. They were doing weekly blood draws and lumbar punctures, but never administered antibiotics. They had no intention of treating the patients, at least not immediately.

Now, I guess Umbrella Corp in RE5 goes to Africa and intentionally infects poor villagers. Sounds familiar...

That aspect of it may strike a chord with some people. I'm not saying the cries of racism are justified, and I doubt that a Japanese video game design team knows much about the Tuskegee Syphilis Study, but there's a lot of people in the U.S. who do.

Edited for clarity.

aclbandit
03-07-2009, 04:50 PM
You aren't killing black people...you're killing black zombies. There's a difference.

Amen to that. When an area is infested with zombies, you kill them. Race is irrelevant.

Also, then, can us white folks be offended by the sheer number of white zombies in RE 0-3 & CV? I detected no racism there. It's simply the logical demographic used in RE games: Caucasians in the American midwest, Africans in Africa.

Because, as we all know, killing zombies is a practice which transcends demographic classification.

skaar
03-07-2009, 04:55 PM
Zombies have no rights, we all know this.

Press_Start
03-07-2009, 06:10 PM
That aspect of it may strike a chord with some people. I'm not saying the cries of racism are justified, and I doubt that a Japanese video game design team knows much about the Tuskegee Syphilis Study, but there's a lot of people in the U.S. who do.


Bear in mind....Capcom is no noob to the American arena as they've gotten a good portion of profits from here for two decades. They may not be familiar with the Tuskegee Syphilis Study, but they shouldn't be no stranger to the "touchy" aspects of the American culture, especially when they planned to release RE5 here from the get-go.

What really worries me about all this is when people like Sharpton and Thompson get a whiff of this and start crying "FOUL!". The last thing I want is the gov't stepping in and scrutinizing every little detail under a microscope, then telling us we can't have this cause too "racist", too "sexist" or what crap the opposition can dream up. It's like I always say, gov't and video games are like alcohol and flamethrowers. Two things that should never go together as idiots get drunk, details are blurred, and we get burned in the end. :onfire:

maxlords
03-07-2009, 06:14 PM
Obviously this game is racist....it's anti-zombie. Zombies SHOULD have rights, else we end up with a society that exploits them, like at the end of Shaun of the Dead.

I propose we petition Congress for a zombie rights bill. I mean...Obama is giving medical aid to CHILDREN for god's sake. It's not like they need it more than the zombies. And while we're at it, equal pay for zombies...why do women deserve equality over zombies?

I'm gonna be a bit radical here and say that it shouldn't even matter what level your zombie decay is at either. I mean....a first stage zombie should obviously have the same rights as a 3rd stage zombie.

I personally am not comfortable with the level of anti-zombie violence in Resident Evil 5. I think that Congress should make Capcom answer for this travesty of racism masquerading as a fun African safari romp.

Aside: I do recognize the racial differences between North American zombies, Asian zombies, European zombies, and African zombies. Capcom has also made a grave error mixing assorted zombie societies. However, if you look at Kershlinger's study of zombal societal stratification (2002) you'll find that the zombies themselves tend to be non-migratory due to ambulatory issues. However, since their societies tend to be extremely homogeonous, most zombies care more about the acquisition of brains than skin color. This means that while there is a major fallacy in Capcom acceding to the wishes of the "uneducated" human populace for RE 5, it is in many ways negated by the opinions of the average zombie.

kupomogli
03-07-2009, 06:18 PM
Black people should be proud. They're actually not the minority in a game. They just want something to bitch about.

Aussie2B
03-07-2009, 07:39 PM
First off, a medical study was conducted several years ago where they asked African Americans questions about HIV. One of things that was concerning, if not totally shocking, was that something like 1/3 of the people they surveyed thoroughly believed that HIV was created in a lab by the U.S. government for malicious reasons.

I don't think that's wholly related to them being black or having knowledge of the Tuskegee Syphilis Study, though. I think if you do a survey asking a large group of people, of any race, about something remotely controversial, you'll be amazed what percentage of the people know absolutely jack shit about the subject at hand yet come to all these strong opinions based purely on assumption, speculation, and rumor. This has been proven time and time again by society. To take a current hot topic, there's all this talk about stem cell research this week, and again there is a huge outcry about the supposed destruction of human life if the government funds research. Yet these people still fail to realize that thousands of frozen embryos are thrown into the trash all the time, and they fail to educate themselves on the science of the matter at all. It's way easier in life to just assume things and scream "Dur, they're killing babies!", "Dur, they're killing black people!", "Dur, they're killing dur butter monster!"

skaar
03-07-2009, 07:45 PM
Black people should be proud. They're actually not the minority in a game. They just want something to bitch about.

Thread victory!

Graham Mitchell
03-07-2009, 07:57 PM
I don't think that's wholly related to them being black or having knowledge of the Tuskegee Syphilis Study, though. I think if you do a survey asking a large group of people, of any race, about something remotely controversial, you'll be amazed what percentage of the people know absolutely jack shit about the subject at hand yet come to all these strong opinions based purely on assumption, speculation, and rumor. This has been proven time and time again by society. To take a current hot topic, there's all this talk about stem cell research this week, and again there is a huge outcry about the supposed destruction of human life if the government funds research. Yet these people still fail to realize that thousands of frozen embryos are thrown into the trash all the time, and they fail to educate themselves on the science of the matter at all. It's way easier in life to just assume things and scream "Dur, they're killing babies!", "Dur, they're killing black people!", "Dur, they're killing dur butter monster!"

Edit: I didn't read your post properly the first time...

I agree that the backlash to Resident Evil 5 doesn't have anything to do with Tuskegee. I just used it as an example of the paranoia we're dealing with. It's unfortunate that people are dumb enough to jump all over a game they haven't played or attempted to interpret, but people love to criticize things they know nothing about. That's where the RE5 backlash comes from.

The 1 2 P
03-07-2009, 10:01 PM
This is old ass news. Play magazine ran an article on this about 3-5 months ago when it initially made the rounds. And no, the game isn't racist. The majority of people who think so have most likely never played a video game in years, if at all in their lives.

j_factor
03-08-2009, 06:05 AM
Who is actually calling this game racist?

"Expert: 'Resident Evil 5' Is Not Racist"
"Expert denies Resident Evil 5 racism claims"
"Resident Evil 5 is Not Racist, Says Anthropologist"
"British Ratings Board Rubbishes Resident Evil 5 Racism Claims"

Sounds like we're all in agreement. I read several news articles and none of them quoted anyone as claiming that the game was racist. One article quoted some Newsweek person as saying that the original teaser trailer "dovetailed with classic racist imagery." That may or may not be true, but I don't see anyone crying racism anytime recently.

Ed Oscuro
03-08-2009, 06:45 AM
I think Sniderman & Aussie2B should form a Racism-Calling Prevention Taskforce or tag team, since this is a topic that always seems to interest them!

Moving right along...

How's this for a game idea: Robert Mugabe's Rally Driving! Steer vehicles into your political opponents with your mind. ...That wouldn't be racist either, and thankfully nobody's asking Mugabe what he thinks of this game (he'd blame it on the British). The animated violence in the game probably isn't much worse in truth than what actually happened over there recently, although I'm sure there'll be more of it (dead computer badguys tell even fewer tales than in real life).

The game designers definitely have a right to touch on current political issues. The fact that you're White People in Africa - well, that was unavoidable, anyway. How many black RE lead characters were there to choose from, anyway?

Whether the RE5 designers had a right to continue using the RE4 control setup on a dual analog system is another question entirely...

Agree with 1 2 P - this is old news and I'm sure everybody over at Capcom has had a heaping of sensitivity training to avoid more scenarios where Newsweek editors are accusing them of being racist, or whatever [insert Mr. Popo here]. A fun and profitable venture for all! </thread>

heybtbm
03-08-2009, 10:40 AM
Who is actually calling this game racist?

"Expert: 'Resident Evil 5' Is Not Racist"
"Expert denies Resident Evil 5 racism claims"
"Resident Evil 5 is Not Racist, Says Anthropologist"
"British Ratings Board Rubbishes Resident Evil 5 Racism Claims"

Sounds like we're all in agreement. I read several news articles and none of them quoted anyone as claiming that the game was racist. One article quoted some Newsweek person as saying that the original teaser trailer "dovetailed with classic racist imagery." That may or may not be true, but I don't see anyone crying racism anytime recently.

Exactly. That's why I linked the article in my previous post. This whole issue is a classic Strawman if you ask me.

I'm just worried Capcom will further cave to the tiny minority of critics and patch the black zombies out of the game completely.

Sniderman
03-08-2009, 11:40 AM
Who is actually calling this game racist?
That's kind of my point. Best as I can see, someone must have said something to Capcom else why go "on the record" as it were? I haven't seen or heard anything of the sort. No protests or the like. I just naturally assumed that "The Usual Suspects" had something to say.

And speaking of The Usual Suspects...


I think Sniderman & Aussie2B should form a Racism-Calling Prevention Taskforce or tag team, since this is a topic that always seems to interest them!

Oh Ed, you never cease to be a delight.

Zap!
03-08-2009, 01:42 PM
Grand Theft Auto IV promotes terrorism because you play a Serbian (I think) that kills white people. Cops even. Oh my.

But Serbs are white, aren't they? :)

Getting back to the game, have these people played the game calling it racist? I think once it's out, they will understand it more and realize it's set in Africa, and the heroes aren't killing them because they are black, but because they are zombies.

norkusa
03-08-2009, 02:34 PM
Who is actually calling this game racist?

I think all the racism claims started from a blurb on a small site called blacklooks.org after the trailer was first shown in 2007. This is the only evidence I can find of someone actually complaining about it but even the author said the claim was made tongue-in-cheek. After the story appeared on a few gaming blogs, it blew up in the mainstream press and RE5 was then branded a racist video game:

http://www.blacklooks.org/2007/07/resident_evil_5.html



The new Resident Evil video game depicts a white man in what appears to be Africa killing Black people. The Black people are supposed to be zombies and the white man’s job is to destroy them and save humanity. “I have a job to do and I’m gonna see it through.”
This is problematic on so many levels, including the depiction of Black people as inhuman savages, the killing of Black people by a white man in military clothing, and the fact that this video game is marketed to children and young adults. Start them young… fearing, hating, and destroying Black people.

Aussie2B
03-08-2009, 02:38 PM
Yeah, Serbs are Slavic. Complete white. Now if you wanted to talk Albanians or something, then it would be getting iffy.


I think Sniderman & Aussie2B should form a Racism-Calling Prevention Taskforce or tag team, since this is a topic that always seems to interest them!

You've probably posted more in these kinds of topics than I have. o_O

Howie6925
03-08-2009, 05:19 PM
Any german ever complain about getting killed in every WWII game to date?

j_factor
03-08-2009, 05:32 PM
Any german ever complain about getting killed in every WWII game to date?

This doesn't really answer your question, but I find it interesting that those games are usually banned in Germany, not because they're anti-German, but because they contain Nazi imagery. Germany basically bans anything with a swastika, regardless of the portrayal. They seem to be hypersensitive to their past in a sort of self-loathing way.

Aussie2B
03-08-2009, 08:27 PM
Frances bans all that stuff as well. They tried to crack down on Yahoo several years ago because Americans would sell WWII Nazi memorabilia on US Yahoo auctions, but French people were obviously able to access the pages and view the images. Seems like European governments in general are sensitive about WWII, and I can't really blame them. But, yeah, they often take it way too far.

Graham Mitchell
03-08-2009, 11:37 PM
This doesn't really answer your question, but I find it interesting that those games are usually banned in Germany, not because they're anti-German, but because they contain Nazi imagery. Germany basically bans anything with a swastika, regardless of the portrayal. They seem to be hypersensitive to their past in a sort of self-loathing way.

I've heard that from some actual Germans. They said the culture is quite embarassed by it, and it's not something that's generally spoken of in polite company.

Zap!
03-09-2009, 01:38 AM
Yeah, Serbs are Slavic. Complete white. Now if you wanted to talk Albanians or something, then it would be getting iffy.

I work with several, some blond and blue-eyed. They are white, no doubt. But the ones I work with are all Muslim. I could be dead wrong, but as far as I know Albania is the only white country on Earth without a Christian majority.

Zap!
03-09-2009, 01:39 AM
Frances bans all that stuff as well. They tried to crack down on Yahoo several years ago because Americans would sell WWII Nazi memorabilia on US Yahoo auctions, but French people were obviously able to access the pages and view the images. Seems like European governments in general are sensitive about WWII, and I can't really blame them. But, yeah, they often take it way too far.

Then they should ban the hammer and sickle to make it fair. Either ban all or ban none.

Kid Fenris
03-09-2009, 02:23 AM
Here's some new footage from Resident Evil 5. After viewing it, I think those complaints of racism might be valid after all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bhAVHczl50

robotriot
03-09-2009, 04:22 AM
I've heard that from some actual Germans. They said the culture is quite embarassed by it, and it's not something that's generally spoken of in polite company.

It has to do with that after the War, everyone had their mind set on preventing anything like that ever happening again in Germany. So among other things, the basic law prohibits displaying symbols of anti-constitutional organizations (like the NSDAP, SS etc.) or denying the holocaust (this is the only exception to free speech in Germany - you can get in jail for stating that publicly). For games set in WWII, this means that you can still release them in Germany, but the developers have to remove all swastikas and whatever else there is (they usually also remove any pictures of Hitler, although this is not explicitly forbidden I think). The only WWII-game that was banned altogether was Wolfenstein 3D from what I remember, but that also had to do with the level of violence in the game (the sensitiveness with protecting the youth from violent images in Germany also has to do with WWII I guess).

heybtbm
03-09-2009, 07:38 AM
Here's some new footage from Resident Evil 5. After viewing it, I think those complaints of racism might be valid after all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bhAVHczl50

Fap.

(shudder)

Solertia
03-09-2009, 08:25 AM
Killing people because they're zombies ≠ killing people because they're black.

Cobra Commander
03-09-2009, 08:42 AM
In Resident Evil, I kill anything that moves regardless of the amount of melanin.
I think it's more intereting that 1942 is so popular in Japan.

j_factor
03-09-2009, 04:45 PM
I work with several, some blond and blue-eyed. They are white, no doubt. But the ones I work with are all Muslim. I could be dead wrong, but as far as I know Albania is the only white country on Earth without a Christian majority.

Uh, what? Morocco, Algeria, Israel? There are lots of white countries with non-Christian majorities.

Zap!
03-10-2009, 01:34 AM
double post delete

Zap!
03-10-2009, 01:37 AM
Uh, what? Morocco, Algeria, Israel? There are lots of white countries with non-Christian majorities.

Morocco is white to you? I knew several and none looked white or even close. Isralis are Semites. I will admit that I don't know much about Algeria.

Edit: Just did a search for "Algeria people" in Google image. Doesn't look very white at all. So far still only Albania IMO, but I guess it's all open to debate an opinion as to what defines white.

makaar
03-10-2009, 01:45 AM
I have two friends who are black and own 360/PS3s and thought the arguments against the game were just silly. Personally zombies just need to die...be they human, animal, plant, or ...mineral?

j_factor
03-10-2009, 03:05 AM
Morocco is white to you? I knew several and none looked white or even close. Isralis are Semites. I will admit that I don't know much about Algeria.

Edit: Just did a search for "Algeria people" in Google image. Doesn't look very white at all. So far still only Albania IMO, but I guess it's all open to debate an opinion as to what defines white.

"White" means the people originating in Europe, North Africa, and the Middle East, according to the U.S. Census Bureau. What would you even call Moroccans if they're not white? They're not black, and they're certainly not Asian, Pacific Islander, or Native American. The people of Morocco are very similar ethnically to the people of Spain; centuries ago, they were under the same rule. Algeria was part of France until 1962.

What about Turkey? Turkey and Greece have a long history together and have ethnically similar populations; Turkey is majority Muslim, whereas Greece is majority Christian.

scooterb23
03-10-2009, 03:33 AM
Morocco is white to you? I knew several and none looked white or even close. Isralis are Semites. I will admit that I don't know much about Algeria.

Edit: Just did a search for "Algeria people" in Google image. Doesn't look very white at all. So far still only Albania IMO, but I guess it's all open to debate an opinion as to what defines white.

http://thisdistractedglobe.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/06/Casablanca.jpg

Looks white to me...heck, city name even translates to "White House" :D

Funnily enough, typing Casablanca into Google... www.whitehouse.gov is just below the google map link, and the IMDB page for the movie.

Zap!
03-10-2009, 03:15 PM
"White" means the people originating in Europe, North Africa, and the Middle East, according to the U.S. Census Bureau. What would you even call Moroccans if they're not white? They're not black, and they're certainly not Asian, Pacific Islander, or Native American. The people of Morocco are very similar ethnically to the people of Spain; centuries ago, they were under the same rule. Algeria was part of France until 1962.

What about Turkey? Turkey and Greece have a long history together and have ethnically similar populations; Turkey is majority Muslim, whereas Greece is majority Christian.

The US Census Burreau also calls people from India white, so their credibility is lacking. If you want to be scientific, there are technically only three races (white, black, Asian). But most people don't go by this logic.

What would I call Moroccons? Many are heavily mixed. I know a kid who's skin is dark brown, hair is highly curley, and speaks French. I'd call them Arabic/Middle Eastern looking (yes I'm not stupid, I know Morocco is in Africa and not the ME). Same with Algeria. Greece I would call white. As for Turkey, not sure. Bald Bull could go either way. :)

Tenjikuronin
03-10-2009, 03:41 PM
The US Census Burreau also calls people from India white, so their credibility is lacking. If you want to be scientific, there are technically only three races (white, black, Asian). But most people don't go by this logic.



The U.S. Census Bureau lists people from India as Caucasian not as white. A common misconception is that the two are the same thing, when in fact Caucasian refers to facial structure (anthropometric measurements to be exact) rather than skin tone or ancestry. Indians aren't "white" but they are undoubtedly Cauacasian.

Aussie2B
03-10-2009, 03:54 PM
Yeah, I'd agree that the US Census Burreau definitions are jacked. I wouldn't consider anyone who originated outside of Europe to be white, and I'd highly doubt many of those people consider themselves white either. And even some countries that are technically part of Europe are iffy to me, like Albania and Turkey, because they're so strongly linked to Arabic culture. Some may have a little Greek mixed into them considering how far the empire spread in ancient times, but over thousands of years they have drifted in their own way and completely rejected Greek culture. And even though Greeks can be dark, like all Mediterranean people, it hasn't gone the other way around. There aren't that many Turks and other Muslims in Greece considering the Greeks were enslaved by the Ottoman empire.

Although, when you want to talk about a country like Albania in the Slavic region, everything is all mixed up. There are so many different types of people in each country that there's a big difference between, say, Albanian (as in being a citizen of the country) and being ethnically Albanian.

Push Upstairs
03-10-2009, 05:18 PM
I suppose you could say that there are really two extremes when it comes to skin color: white and black, and that everything else is a variation that falls between the two.

This only takes into account skin tones that evolved for specific climate conditions and doesn't involve any other physical evolutionary traits.

Then again, everyone was "black" before human migrations into other areas.

j_factor
03-11-2009, 12:53 AM
The US Census Burreau also calls people from India white, so their credibility is lacking. If you want to be scientific, there are technically only three races (white, black, Asian). But most people don't go by this logic.

What would I call Moroccons? Many are heavily mixed. I know a kid who's skin is dark brown, hair is highly curley, and speaks French. I'd call them Arabic/Middle Eastern looking (yes I'm not stupid, I know Morocco is in Africa and not the ME). Same with Algeria. Greece I would call white. As for Turkey, not sure. Bald Bull could go either way. :)

I don't consider "Arabic/Middle Eastern looking" and "white" to be mutually exclusive. Arabs are an ethnic classification (although Moroccans are Berbers, not Arabs), not a race; races are broader groups (although I would say there are 5 races, rather than 3). The only physical difference I see between Moroccans and Spaniards is that Moroccans tend to have more of a tan. Danny Thomas was Lebanese and I don't think he was ever considered anything other than white.

People from India basically are white. The Aryan race originates in the Indus River valley. Many Indians, especially from the northwestern portion of the country, aren't terribly distinguishable from Mediterraneans. Freddie Mercury was Indian and a lot of people weren't even aware of it. Southern Indians are darker, but they're basically just white people with a really dark tan -- they have the same facial structure and etc. It might be different in the easternmost part of India, I'm not really sure what they look like.

Zap!
03-11-2009, 02:00 AM
I don't consider "Arabic/Middle Eastern looking" and "white" to be mutually exclusive. Arabs are an ethnic classification (although Moroccans are Berbers, not Arabs), not a race; races are broader groups (although I would say there are 5 races, rather than 3). The only physical difference I see between Moroccans and Spaniards is that Moroccans tend to have more of a tan. Danny Thomas was Lebanese and I don't think he was ever considered anything other than white.

People from India basically are white. The Aryan race originates in the Indus River valley. Many Indians, especially from the northwestern portion of the country, aren't terribly distinguishable from Mediterraneans. Freddie Mercury was Indian and a lot of people weren't even aware of it. Southern Indians are darker, but they're basically just white people with a really dark tan -- they have the same facial structure and etc. It might be different in the easternmost part of India, I'm not really sure what they look like.

I do give you credit with your way of words, but it looks like we aren't going to agree much as to what is white and what isn't. There is just too much disagreement. Some (mostly fringe, hardcore Nazi nutcases) don't consider Spaniards, Italians, or Greek white. Some, like yourself, consider Indians, Moroccans, etc. white. I am somewhat lieniant, and consider all of Europe white, as well as many (most?) South American countries, such as Argentina. Many Iranians are also very white. Iran means "land of Arayns" and at one point was majority white.

As for Danny Thomas, he was white, just like there are white Puerto Ricans, white Mexicans, etc.

j_factor
03-11-2009, 04:44 PM
Well this is honestly the first time I have hever heard anyone say that people from northern Africa are not white. It strikes me as an odd thing to say.