Does EMULATION eliminate the need to COLLECT?

[digitalpress]

Brought on by a previous thread where I asked "if you had to... what would you sell off first?". This question was answered by several people along the lines of "I'd get rid of things I can play on an emulator".

So I wondered. Would I even be a collector had I started after the age of emulation? I mean - would I go out of my way to find the Atari 2600 game Air Raid if I could just play the thing on my PC? Do I only collect now because I have an existing collection?

The answer to that is NO, but that's just me personally. I wonder how you would answer. What I'm NOT asking is if you think emulation can replace your game playing. What I AM asking is if emulation can replace your game collecting.

Ponder. And discuss.

[IGotTheDot]

The actual game is only part of the appeal. There is also the box art the label art and the manual. So no way Jose, er Joe.

[Mr-E_MaN]

Emulation can never replace collecting... unless you are collecting roms I guess...

The reason I collect, and I am sure there are more people like me, is not only to play the games, it's to physically have them and display them. You can't display a CD of roms that well...

[Phosphor Dot Fossils]

If anything, emulation has just gotten me in worse trouble! I try out ROMs and think "Ahhh hell, I gotta try that out with the real live 2600 joystick." Or "Crap, the ROM doesn't work. Now there's only one way to find out." (Which was part of the reason I sprung for Odyssey 2 Power Lords.)

Damn you, emulation! Glorious, addictive emulation. You just make me want to track down the real thing that much more.

For me, the two go hand-in-hand in a most dangerous way.

[Bratwurst]

I must say no, because with collecting physical cartridges and the like, there comes the packaging and magazines of that era as well, something that rom sites and packages don't tend to transfer too well with the actual file.

I'm tired of looking at crap mini-reviews that accompany those emu sites as well, things like 'I played this game when I was 10 and in it you are Bonk out to save the princess.' Compare that to publications of the era or even the legal info in the manual, stuff like the publishers, year it came out, interviews with the creators, and industry blurbs etc. The HISTORY, man, the HISTORY.

[orrimarrko]

Unfortunately, this begs the question of why do you collect in the first place (which may spin off to a 3rd thread O_O )...

If your goal was to play every game that you collected, or to only collect those games that you wish to play (or like to play), then I think the question fits.

My answer (if that was the case) would be no - I wouldn't stop collecting, because there is more to the hobby than just to play the games. I actually like the packaging (which is why I don't collect loose items) as well as the physical game itself (although CDs are lame.) So no - even if I had the emulators, I would still collect.

Now, back to what I was hinting at - how many of us collect games that we will NEVER play (some because they suck, some because you just don't have that much time on your hands)??

My point is that collecting and gaming don't always go hand and hand. Emulation (for me) has nothing to do with collecting.

Steve

[YoshiM]

I think I'd still be a collector. Like Mr. Fossils emulators have gotten me MORE interested in getting the real thing due to some sort of glitch in the emu/ROM or just not playing right with PC controllers. Which gets ME in trouble as well (lessee, I've gone through 3 Genesis/Sega CD and 3 TG-16 system purchases and then sales of over the last few years which my wife makes sure to remind me of). And like Herr Wurst it's about the history or more specifically the personal history involved with the systems I've had the longest.

Besides, no matter how good the emulation is, it's just not the same. Anyone who says different just wants free stuff :P

[ventrra]

Personally, I can't see how emulation could replace collecting. It can, and does in my case, supplement collecting. There is a lot to be said about playing games in their original formats. Certainly, few controllers availiable for computers have the same look and feel of most game system controllers. (Just imagine someone replicating the Channel F controller for a PC, for example :D )

There is also an issue of the availablility and accuracy of emulators, as well. Many emulators don't accurately reflect the abilities of the original hardware. Certainly, you can play some of the games, but the question is: Doest it represent exactly what you would experience playing a real system? Some systems don't have emulators. (I'm still waiting for a Game.com emulator LOL )

As others have said in this thread, playing the games on an emulator usually makes me want the real cartridges (or tapes, or disks, or whatever) rather than to make me inclined to be satisfied with the emulation of those games.

[ManekiNeko]

Not entirely, but I do feel emulation lessens the need to collect. If you've got a small house or a limited income, then you can emulate 95% of what's out there and keep a small amount of games and systems that have strong sentimental value.

JR

[digitalpress]

Personally, I can't see how emulation could replace collecting.

So far the responses here have been pretty much what I expected, but let's keep in mind that we're on the whole a more hardcore vintage gaming crowd, a little older than most forum communities, a lot wiser.

I wonder if I posed this question somewhere else, like at an emulation headquarters forum, if the answers wouldn't be exactly the opposite.

Perhaps an experiment is at hand.

[NE146]

I play emulators ALL THE FRIGGIN TIME these days especially on the Xbox. It 100% rocks having the entire libraries for the 2600/Colecovision/Snes/NES/SMS/etc.etc. on a single compact console ready for play on any tv in the house.

However having said that, do they substitute for the real thing? HELL NO. There's always going to be something 'missing', if not videogame look/sound-wise, then for sure in the physical things people touched on above. It's never going to be 100% the same (although for some things like SNES on the xbox.. it comes damn close ;))

Rather what I think emulation does, is it allows you that quick game of whatever you want right when you want it, and saves the wear and tear of using your old gear. You can always break out the real deal when you want that pure feel, but you just can't beat that convenience of jumping from 3-5 colecovision games to Mame to Genesis to Sega CD to TG-16 games all in the span of 5 minutes..w/ a nice clean looking entertainment area to boot :P

Now maybe I'm not the best person to ask since again, I've never considered myself a "collector" per se.. I'm just a person who's enjoyed and played videogames since the late 70's up to this day. But to me, emulation and the real deal DO go hand in hand and are just alternative methods to enjoying some videogame action. And naturally, we all know the real deal is best. But the fake stuff works in a pinch ;)

Bottom line..it definitely can't take the place of actual item collecting though. But it sure does go great hand in hand :)

[Captain Wrong]

Yes...and no. The stuff I've parted with I know I can emulate if I get the urge to play it again. However, through emulation I've gotten into a lot more stuff of stuff I wouldn't have otherwise. If not for emulation, I probably wouldn't own a Neo Geo now.

[AB Positive]

If anything, emulation has just gotten me in worse trouble! I try out ROMs and think "Ahhh hell, I gotta try that out with the real live 2600 joystick." Or "Crap, the ROM doesn't work. Now there's only one way to find out." (Which was part of the reason I sprung for Odyssey 2 Power Lords.)

Damn you, emulation! Glorious, addictive emulation. You just make me want to track down the real thing that much more.

For me, the two go hand-in-hand in a most dangerous way.

I completely agree with this. It's the emulation of the Neo Geo Color Pocket game SNK v. Capcom: Cardfighter Clash that's made me personally want to hunt one down so I can play it for real. Emulation makes me want a Duo more so I can play Bomberman '93 on the REAL pad. To me, emulation is only a temporary fix. To use an inappropriate analogy, it's methadone when I really want smack. There's no replacing playing a game on the system it's made for with the contoller it's made for.

...DAMN I need a TG-16

-AG

[zektor]

For me emulation has always been a great way to try a game before I go and buy it (IE: The $102 I just spend on a TG16 Bonk 3 hucard) and I think it is great for that purpose. But, depending on the system, some things are just better emulated. Take the Amiga for example. I have alot of great games for the system that just "died" because of the format they are on: floppy disks. At least with the emulation, the floppies have been backed up to files that can be loaded any time I want, without a floppy error. I can still play Menace :) And finally, some games I just CANNOT afford, but love to have the ability to play. Neo-Geo games for example. I sure as hell cannot afford to buy Metal Slug, but love the fact that I can play it if I want to. I don't think anyone should be deprived of playing a great game just because they don't have a ton of cash to buy it. Emulation will never kill game collecting, but if it weren't there I think there most likely would be ALOT more people buying vintage games...and the prices of these games would be off the wall.

[Charlesaway]

You know what the weird thing is? I started collecting emulators and roms before I started my collections. I have almost every game for every classic system out there, but I found it just wasn't the same experience.

It's all about the experience for me I think, and you just can't get that with an emulator. Plus, it gives me a warm, fuzzy feeling inside when I look at my collection of games. I don't get that looking at a directory of files.

[Nature Boy]

I personally don't consider the emulation scene collecting. It's acquiring. You don't really care what you get, you just grab whatever is available because it's there.

True Collecting involves rarity. Pricing guides. Regional differences. Buying a second copy of something to swap for something else. And it's these things I enjoy so much and can't explain to an acquirer.

[kainemaxwell]

Of course not! Half the fun of collecting is looking in the wild or the darkc orners of eBay for those elusive titles for your collection. Then when you bring it home you can play it ont he actual system and stack them with the others of that collection.

With emulation you can play the games you have without having to hook the system up (if it's not) or test drive various games you want to find or can't play in the U.S.

[IntvGene]

I think that emulation serves me to save things that I normally couldn't save.. like Zektor said. Emulation is great for the C64, Amiga, Atari 8bit, etc. These things were not going to last long because the format. So, it's great to play those on my DC or whatever.

I also think that collecting is great for ease of use. I don't want to drag out my NES every time I want to play something. So, I just do it on my DC. What's also great about emulation is that I can use the SAVE STATE features instead writing down those crappy passwords on some old games. But, it does not stop me from buying the old games. They are part of my collections.

There is also one more area, emulators like SCUMM. Now, I can play games old Lucasarts games on my DC (and I believe GP32). It's great playing those classics on my huge TV compared to my PC monitor.. it's even better than before. These are actually improvements on the old games, and I would prefer to play them. SCUMM requires that I have the original discs, so I have to add to my growing collection!

[Ed Oscuro]

A loser--freeloader type--would probably not care about buying games if he could emulate them. A collector will collect whether or not a better, more convenient version of the same game may be had on his PC.

Ah, the joys of precise language.

Emulation actually got me into a couple game series, and as a result different game companies can chalk a couple sales up to emulation. Here's one: After playing the (damned HACKED Eurasia version >( Castlevania: Aria of Sorrow ROM a couple days after its release, I went out and bought the actual game, even though I don't own a GBA--or any GameBoy, yet. I also decided to get a couple other games for the GBA on that trip, so if you ask me I'd be liable to say that emulation can be a publicity tool.

Now if only everybody else would be like me, and actually support companies that make games they like :(

[Ed Oscuro]

I personally don't consider the emulation scene collecting. It's acquiring. You don't really care what you get, you just grab whatever is available because it's there.

True Collecting involves rarity. Pricing guides. Regional differences. Buying a second copy of something to swap for something else. And it's these things I enjoy so much and can't explain to an acquirer.

Quite true. I always laugh whem I see the term "rare ROMs" used, because it's such an idiotic oxymoron (the user never has a clue why it's so stupid). When a file gets on the 'net, it only takes one person to make it available to the public as a whole.

The difference between collecting and acquiring is a mindset, dedication, and simple market forces compared with the free-for-all that is the Internet.

[tynstar]

For me NO. But I don't emulate anything.

[kingpong]

Emulation has certainly had a negative impact on my collecting, though it is not the sole cause of the decline. I have never really considered my collecting to be as such - it is more a side effect of liking video games and wanting to play as many as possible. My collection started with what I had, then a friend who wanted to get rid of some games, then a yard sale... and before you know it I'm collecting. It was only through collecting that I could expose myself to all the games out there - I wanted to play each and every game, just in case that next one was that special game.

Emulation came into vogue as my collecting was naturally slowing. Though I still wanted to collect with the same passion as previously, it obviously becomes harder to find new games as your collection grows, and sources were drying up. I went from admitting that I'd probably never find Video Life and be able to play it from realizing that I was probably never going to find Q*Bert's Qubes. When I started trying emulators, I kept it to things I knew I would probably never find. I guess I started back when Retrocade supported 3 games - I knew I would never have those arcade games. For years I tried to keep emulation to stuff I wouldn't own... I wouldn't own scads of Super Famicom games so I could emulate that, but I would eventually find everything for Colecovision so I wouldn't emulate that.

As more time has passed, it only becomes more clear that it isn't feasible for my to collect everything I want, so I allow myself to emulate more and more. It still bugs me a bit... I know I'll never own all 4000 games in MAME, so no problems there, but I feel like I'm letting my collecting spirit down when I know I could have 95% of the 2600 library but emulate anyway.

Sure, I still want all the boxes and manuals and such that comes with collecting, but ultimately that stuff is insignificant. In the end it is all about the game, no matter what format it comes in. I certainly would never turn down a purchase because I knew I could emulate it, but thanks to emulation I won't be kept awake at night by the thoughts of "what if I never find those last few games for that system?!?"

[orrimarrko]

I still think that a fundamental premise is being overlooked here (by some.)

Joe's question about emulation replacing collecting is based on the premise that you collect to play at a later date (at least that's how I interpret it.)

If you collect to collect, and never have any intentions of playing the games (or at least the majority of them), then it's the item and the quest that makes the hobby fun for you. It's the feeling of satisfaction of finding that game cheap or acquiring the last Sega CD game that you needed to complete your set. You may never play that game even one time - so who gives a shit about the emulation of the game. If you wouldn't play it with the original, you sure as hell aren't going to waste your time playing a ROM of it.

So again, I think that it begs the question - if you collect because it's a fun hobby, and you also happen to play games, does emulation have any effect on you at all?

On the other hand, if you spend 23 hours per day playing games, chances are that you only collect those games that you want to play - because you are more concerned with playing the games. An emulation of the games that you want to play may be a substitute for the real thing in terms of acquirability, price, and storage. If you truly valued the collecting part over the gaming part, you would still seek them out. Playing games on an emulator still doesn't change the fact of whether you are a "traditional collector" or not, because emulators are for playing games, and being a "traditional collector" doesn't necessarily have anything to do with playing games.

I guess it's really up to your definition of "collector", but I can't help but think that how many games you play has anything to do with it. So, if I had every home console, and every console game, I would be finished 'collecting' on that level. Playing those same games on a CDR doesn't change that.

Blah, blah, blah, rant over...

[Ed Oscuro]

You may never play that game even one time - so who gives a shit about the emulation of the game. If you wouldn't play it with the original, you sure as hell aren't going to waste your time playing a ROM of it.

That's stunningly analytic and insightful of you--except that I'm a case where you would be wrong.

First of all, I met your first condition: I collect games but don't play them (in a console). I've got a lot of games that I don't even own the system for (and a couple rare systems without or nearly without games, i.e. my MSX2 and Neo Geo AES).

TVs KILL my eyes after a while, possibly due to the 33 inch TV I've got. All I would play on that TV are new games that I can't emulate. So I emulate what I can, and I spend little time on consoles anymore.

[Videogamerdaryll]

[quote=ventrra]Personally, I can't see how emulation could replace collecting.

So far the responses here have been pretty much what I expected, but let's keep in mind that we're on the whole a more hardcore vintage gaming crowd, a little older than most forum communities, a lot wiser.

wonder if I posed this question somewhere else, like at an emulation headquarters forum, if the answers wouldn't be exactly the opposite.

Perhaps an experiment is at hand[/color]

I agree with that..

[Videogamerdaryll]

[quote=ventrra]Personally, I can't see how emulation could replace collecting.

So far the responses here have been pretty much what I expected, but let's keep in mind that we're on the whole a more hardcore vintage gaming crowd, a little older than most forum communities, a lot wiser.

wonder if I posed this question somewhere else, like at an emulation headquarters forum, if the answers wouldn't be exactly the opposite.

Perhaps an experiment is at hand[/color]

I agree with that..

"Perhaps an experiment is at hand"

How can we go about this..??

[Ed Oscuro]

www.forumplanet.com/classicgaming/castlevania

Not exactly the emulation HQ of the world, and ROM discussion is prohibited (I see to that,) but you could give it a try. Or better yet, the main Gamespy Forums' Game Discussion page. ack.

[Charlie]

For me, Emulation is a means to play games that I don't have easy access to, namely Japanese games. I have Nester DC and I only play Famicom Disk and Famicom games on it. I'm on a dial-up so I don't even bother to download ROMS for games that I already have or that I might end up getting.

I tried DreamSNES too but it runs too goddamn slow to be enjoyable.

[jaydubnb]

For me, personally, the emu scene was something I could never get into.

1)I hate the feeling of being bound to my PC monitor and missing the joy of playing games on my big screen tv. Yeh, i know that you can emu games to play on home consoles, but....eh. If I'm gonna do that I might as well get the game itself.

2.)The few roms that I've come across have been good but not perfect: animation skips, sound drops, and pixelation come to mind.

3.Theres no artwork! I love manual art (heh, even the bad stuff is good for a few jokes *cough* Mega Man 1 *cough*) and roms come with none.

The only good thing that has come from rom playing is that I spent a good 20 minutes or so playing Last Blade 1 a few weeks back. I MUST own that game!

[Felixthegamer]

I tend to only play emulation for rare games that I will probably never own. It is fun to mess around with, but for me, nothing beats the real thing.

[Nature Boy]

If you collect to collect, and never have any intentions of playing the games (or at least the majority of them), then it's the item and the quest that makes the hobby fun for you.

To be honest I think someone into emulation is less likely to play everything he/she's got. After all, you're collecting games in the thousands at one time (like my 2000+ MAME ROMS). And don't you grab whatever you can no matter what, since you know it might not be there next time you get around to it?

It might be a personal thing, but I'm much more selective with what I collect vs what I get for my emulators. And I collect only because I play - if our hobby starts getting those who collect just for the money, well, prepare for prices to skyrocket (and eventually crash when the fad dies).

[FrankLee]

I had a lot of different roms before i started collecting but i feel that having the console and the actual game is more "meaningfull"....For me at least

[TripppsK]

Emulation is perfect for games you will never, or probably never, own or find. It will never replace collecting, because nothing replaces the feel of the cartridge or the look of the system. While I do have most console emulators, I rarely ever use them. The only emulator I use religously is MAME, because I've come to the realization that I will never be able to afford a place big enough to fit all the arcade cabinets.

[orrimarrko]

If you collect to collect, and never have any intentions of playing the games (or at least the majority of them), then it's the item and the quest that makes the hobby fun for you.

To be honest I think someone into emulation is less likely to play everything he/she's got. After all, you're collecting games in the thousands at one time (like my 2000+ MAME ROMS). And don't you grab whatever you can no matter what, since you know it might not be there next time you get around to it?

It might be a personal thing, but I'm much more selective with what I collect vs what I get for my emulators. And I collect only because I play - if our hobby starts getting those who collect just for the money, well, prepare for prices to skyrocket (and eventually crash when the fad dies).

I fail to see how what I said equates here, especially in this last paragraph.

For some reason, you have equated collecting with speculation and making money. Totally a poor assumption, with no logical merit.

I could care less if every game was worth $1 apiece - I would still collect them. Collecting (of ANYTHING) is the amassing of similar items that you have a particular interest in, for that sake. If you collect things that happen to be valuable, so be it (coin collecting comes to mind.)

If you are investing, and choose video games as the means of investing to make a profit at a future date, then I would agree with you - STUPID! In fact, I would like to stone those people, for making my hobby more expensive than it needs to be (ie, $1800 for an NES Stadium Events!!)

Again, and I don't think that I am splitting hairs here. Collecting, gaming, and investing are three totally separate parts of the video game industry. If the three of them happen to overlap each other, such is life. However, don't assume that just because someone wishes to acquire every game for every system is doing so just for the money - because it simply ain't true.

By the way, I do play games, and I do have aspirations of acquiring every game for every system. However, I barely have enough time to spend 10 hours per week on playing ANY games at all. Yet, I still collect games that I know I will never play.

For me, emulation would only serve ONE purpose - I could play those games that I have sealed, without having to own a loose copy as well.

[boatofcar]

I think that emulation serves me to save things that I normally couldn't save.. like Zektor said. Emulation is great for the C64, Amiga, Atari 8bit, etc. These things were not going to last long because the format. So, it's great to play those on my DC or whatever.

I also think that collecting is great for ease of use. I don't want to drag out my NES every time I want to play something. So, I just do it on my DC. What's also great about emulation is that I can use the SAVE STATE features instead writing down those crappy passwords on some old games. But, it does not stop me from buying the old games. They are part of my collections.




I agree here- I can't wait to hook up my Atari 130XE to my PC and run roms from it on the classic machine, because it replicates everything exactly from the game coming through my vintage monitor to the authentic keyboard and joystick experience.

On the flipside, one of the main reasons I stayed out of emulation for many years was that I had to play them sitting in a chair on my computer, not on the couch or on the lazy boy on a real TV. When I bought a Dreamcast, that all changed. Now, I hardly every play my real NES anymore, since Nester DC is so much more convinent. In fact, I've sold a lot of my NES games that didn't have sentimental value because there is just no reason to hang onto them any more. I still have all my SNES stuff, because I've yet to find a DC emulator that can run all the games at full speed. My SNES is a lot more convienent than my NES anyway, due to the fact that everything works on the first try most of the time. I guess I really am more of a player than a collector.

[Nature Boy]

I fail to see how what I said equates here, especially in this last paragraph.

For some reason, you have equated collecting with speculation and making money. Totally a poor assumption, with no logical merit.

Well, I probably read through your original post wrong to be honest. I thought (don't ask why) that you were drawing a line between emulation and the real thing based on playing. i.e. a collector of carts might buy games he/she isn't intersted in playing. I was thinking "well, a collector of ROMs is going to to the same - even more so most likely").

As for my second statement: I was just commenting that, re the above, I'm way more picky about what I buy and collect than what I acquire for emulation. And that I collect games only to play (I acquire ROMs just to have them before they disappear). My speculator rant was just part of my fear of that sort of thinking ruinging my hobby (and I must be drunk again at work 'cause I'm not sure what I was thinking).

[Ruudos]

No, I actually started colelcting because of emulation, and I know I'm not the only one.