English only games outlawed in Québec

[c0ldb33r]

New legislation in Quebec now prohibits the sale of English-only video games if a French version is available. The catch traditionally has been for Quebec is that game publishers typically release French versions for PAL consoles and not North American ones — hence, loads of English games in Quebec.

Source: http://kotaku.com/5196643/french-quebec-cracks-down-on-english-games

To Québec gamers, what effect (if any) do you think this will have on your ability to obtain new games? You can always come to New Brunswick, we'll hook you up :D

[Tupin]

I can only imagine that the whole French/English dual language law will bring more stuff like this.

Why not all of Canada? French is a national language along with English, so shouldn't it apply to other provinces as well?

[Kitsune Sniper]

I can only imagine that the whole French/English dual language law will bring more stuff like this.

Why not all of Canada? French is a national language along with English, so shouldn't it apply to other provinces as well?

No, it's just Quebec.

Because the people who write the laws there seem to be scared that they'll lose their PRECIOUS LANGUAGE if they don't force everything to be in it.

[Tupin]

No, it's just Quebec.

Because the people who write the laws there seem to be scared that they'll lose their PRECIOUS LANGUAGE if they don't force everything to be in it.
I'm saying, this will affect all of Canada because companies won't bother shipping separate games to Quebec and other parts of Canada.

[eskobar]

I think this is a stupid law ...

I do not know how many of the 7 million habitants of Quebec consume videogames regularly but anyway that is a big limitation for many genres that cannot justify the localization cost vs. game sales.

[jcalder8]

I think it sucks for all the gamers in Quebec and lots of companies won't bother to sell their games there. I'm willing to buy games for people in Quebec and ship them out at cost, just throwing it out there.

Since most Pal releases have multi-language options it would be possible to use one of those translations on the NTSC release.

[The 1 2 P]

I think this will definitely limit the amount of rpg's that get released in Quebec.

[Mark III]

I can only imagine that the whole French/English dual language law will bring more stuff like this.

Why not all of Canada? French is a national language along with English, so shouldn't it apply to other provinces as well?

Screw that. I have a hard enough time finding english only games, the last thing I need is for them to be outlawed.

[JSoup]

No, it's just Quebec.

Because the people who write the laws there seem to be scared that they'll lose their PRECIOUS LANGUAGE if they don't force everything to be in it.

Maybe this is why all the immigrants in California refuse to learn English.

[Berserker]

I don't pretend to know how things are in Quebec, but to me this reads like a purely political move. Appealing to/cooperating with game developers is the right way to affect change; punishing your own populace by outlawing what games they can buy isn't.



Maybe this is why all the immigrants in California refuse to learn English.

Or why citizens in states near the border refuse to learn Spanish.

[undead455]

I remember last year when Rock Band 2 came out, I had to find a store that would let me import it online into Quebec. The law applies even when ordering online for example, if you're ordering from Toys R Us.ca and it's English only quebec residents can't even do checkout. It's a stupid law.:onfire:

[Kitsune Sniper]

I remember last year when Rock Band 2 came out, I had to find a store that would let me import it online into Quebec. The law applies even when ordering online for example, if you're ordering from Toys R Us.ca and it's English only quebec residents can't even do checkout. It's a stupid law.:onfire:

Wow.

That's fucking idiotic.

[Tupin]

Yeah, limiting what people can buy online based on where they live is pretty weird, it would be like the USA outlawing the importing of movies/games because they aren't in English.

[c0ldb33r]

Why not all of Canada? French is a national language along with English, so shouldn't it apply to other provinces as well?
The Canadian constitution gives authority to deal with languages to the provincial governments.

The federal government is "officially bilingual", but that only applies to federal government institutions.

New Brunswick is the only officially bilingual province.
Quebec is the only officially unilingual province (French).
The other eight provinces are officially neither.

Chapter 16-22 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms deals with language rights.

Section 16.
1. English and French are the official languages of Canada and have equality of status and equal rights and privileges as to their use in all institutions of the Parliament and government of Canada.
2. English and French are the official languages of New Brunswick and have equality of status and equal rights and privileges as to their use in all institutions of the legislature and government of New Brunswick.
Either the federal government or a provincial government has the ability to temporarily limit the charter as it relates to something within its jurisdiction. This temporary limitation can be renewed repeatedly. This has allowed the province of Quebec to limit English language rights within the province.

The interesting thing about this game ban is that the effect will be contrary to their intentions. English-only games will be banned within Quebec if there is a French version available. So... what's to stop game companies from just not offering a French version?

edit: here is a link to the story on gamepolitics.com - http://www.thestar.com/article/611472

[Sonicwolf]

I swear Quebec is getting more and more anal about there precious language. If the rest of Canada has to have bilingual EVERYTHING, why are the Quebecois allowed to remove all but french from everything? Bull.

They should have listened to Pierre Trudeau and stopped whining. They are a part of Canada and should not be making it hard for english-only speakers to live there.

[Bojay1997]

This is a total non-story. Since last year, just about every major developer has worked to bring their games into compliance with the newly firmed up regulations. If you take a little time and look at most of the packaging being used for games released within the last few months in Canada, and even some here in the US in most cases (Battle Fantasia and Guilty Gear for the 360 come immediately to mind just because I just bought them), they have dual language packaging and multi-lingual manuals and multi-lingual language options.

[c0ldb33r]

If you take a little time and look at most of the packaging being used for games released within the last few months in Canada ... they have dual language packaging and multi-lingual manuals and multi-lingual language options.
I agree about the multilingual manuals and packaging, but I haven't really noticed french language options in-game.

[jcalder8]

I agree about the multilingual manuals and packaging, but I haven't really noticed french language options in-game.
I think Halo 3 had the option

[Push Upstairs]

Maybe the rest of Canada needs to take up arms against the oppressive Quebec regime.

;)

[badinsults]

I feel bad for the Quebecers who have to deal with these silly language debates. I live in Sudbury, where around 35% of the population speaks French, yet you don't hear them bitching and complaining about the near dominance of English in commerce here. To ban something because it is not in French borders on facism, though Quebec has always had some of the more extremist governments in North America, historically.

[tubeway]

I think this is a stupid law ...

I do not know how many of the 7 million habitants of Quebec consume videogames regularly but anyway that is a big limitation for many genres that cannot justify the localization cost vs. game sales.

I don't see this being a huge deal for companies that release their games globally. I worked for Infogrames, and our games (at least when I was there) almost always had five or so different language options before or at the Main Menu. There are markets in France, Italy, Germany, and so on, and by releasing games there, they more than recoup the localization costs. I mean really, it doesn't cost THAT much to localize a game's text. Many games are just pulling all the text from a single file that can examined.

[slapdash]

Come on, Canada's bilingual laws made for one of the funniest scenes in Canadian Bacon, so I'm all for it.

[Kitsune Sniper]

I don't see this being a huge deal for companies that release their games globally. I worked for Infogrames, and our games (at least when I was there) almost always had five or so different language options before or at the Main Menu. There are markets in France, Italy, Germany, and so on, and by releasing games there, they more than recoup the localization costs. I mean really, it doesn't cost THAT much to localize a game's text. Many games are just pulling all the text from a single file that can examined.

Hell, I localized an entire game for three hundred bucks! Of course the game was canceled and there's no hope in hell I'll ever see it. Hrm.

Seriously though, there's a LOT more work that needs to be done other than just translate the text. Even if the translation is done fast, the game STILL has to be playtested. Not to mention that depending on the game itself, the genre, and the company, voice acting may be obligatory. And that also means the game's movies may have to be re-rendered. Lips must be re-synced. Movies must be timed differently. So on and so forth.

Stuff like fighting games? That's no big deal. But RPGs, adventure games, and so on? A helluva problem.

[c0ldb33r]

Hell, I localized an entire game for three hundred bucks!
Wow! Really? Man you work cheap. Listen, I'll give you six bucks to paint my car, but you've gotta supply the paint.

With respect to Quebec's language policies, I can actually understand why they're so anal about it. They're a very small island of french culture in an ocean of English language and culture. If they weren't careful, it would be easy to be overrun. I may not agree with their decisions, but I can understand them.

[ScourDX]

That's truly sad. Whatever happen to multi-cultural society? It seems like Quebec is stepping backward instead of forward.

[GM80]

I don't give a flying flip, as long as the English-speaking world doesn't outlaw Whippet cookies out of spite.

[Sonicwolf]

I don't give a flying flip, as long as the English-speaking world doesn't outlaw Whippet cookies out of spite.

You dont live in Canada so you dont have to give a flying flip. They force us to learn french mandatoraly between grades 5 - 8. BOO!

Im sorry but its really, really annoying.

[tubeway]

Hell, I localized an entire game for three hundred bucks! Of course the game was canceled and there's no hope in hell I'll ever see it. Hrm.

Seriously though, there's a LOT more work that needs to be done other than just translate the text. Even if the translation is done fast, the game STILL has to be playtested. Not to mention that depending on the game itself, the genre, and the company, voice acting may be obligatory. And that also means the game's movies may have to be re-rendered. Lips must be re-synced. Movies must be timed differently. So on and so forth.

Stuff like fighting games? That's no big deal. But RPGs, adventure games, and so on? A helluva problem.

You make some really good points. The titles I worked on included racing and action titles where they weren't as text intensive, nor did they have a lot of cut scenes. And while you do need to play test them in each language, this is usually accomplished while performing playthroughs and looking for other issues. You just make sure you don't see text from another language mixed in.

As far as voice acting goes, it can depend on the publisher and whether they just end up adding subtitles in the appropriate language.

Did you seriously do localization on a title for $300?

1 Jugador
2 Jugador

Done! Cut me a check.

[Kitsune Sniper]

Did you seriously do localization on a title for $300?

1 Jugador
2 Jugador

Done! Cut me a check.

Yes I did. It was Rock Revolution for the Wii, which ended up getting canned. -I- got about $300. I'm sure the agency who hired me to do the translation got more. :p

[skaar]

Quebec is the Texas of Canada.

Good food, crazy fucking people.

[boogiecat]

Quebec is the Texas of Canada.

Good food, crazy fucking people.

Yeah that's what my relatives who lives before there said to me once(they're now in the US BTW..)..

[tubeway]

Yes I did. It was Rock Revolution for the Wii, which ended up getting canned. -I- got about $300. I'm sure the agency who hired me to do the translation got more. :p

That's a shame. Have you tried using that experience to get yourself more gigs doing the same thing? I know localization specialists that have worked their way into producer positions.

[Push Upstairs]

Quebec is the Texas of Canada.

Good food, crazy fucking people.

Except Texas doesn't make you learn French.

And you can't say "They make you learn Spanish" because there is Spanish influence in every state that borders Mexico

[skaar]

Yeah that's what my relatives who lives before there said to me once(they're now in the US BTW..)..

I grew up in Quebec, Montreal specifically. Still love it, but as nobody I know would say - "they's wack, man."

[Kitsune Sniper]

Quebec is the Texas of Canada.

Good food, crazy fucking people.

Look, as much as I dislike Texas in general, I would never compare them to the very vocal nutso French-speakers over in Quebec.

I'm sure most people in Quebec are sane. It's the language obsessed ones that tick me off.

[tom]

In the past UK wanted to export some corn flakes into Europe. They got on alright in Germany, Italy etc...but when they became available in France, they returned the product stating that the words 'corn flakes' must be printed on the package in French language. True story.

[Daria]

Except Texas doesn't make you learn French.

And you can't say "They make you learn Spanish" because there is Spanish influence in every state that borders Mexico

No, Quebec's more like Miami. The city's like a totally different country compared to the rest of Florida.

[c0ldb33r]

I'm sure most people in Quebec are sane. It's the language obsessed ones that tick me off.
QFT! It's been my experience that most people in Quebec are great. It's just a small subgroup that take things too far.

But that's not particular to Quebec. Here in New Brunswick about 65% of the population is English and 35% is French. For the most part we have no real problems, but there are always a small group on both sides that like to make a big deal out of things that aren't really issues in anyone's head but there own.

In any event, I'm sure every province, territory and state has their own hot-topics.

[boogiecat]

I grew up in Quebec, Montreal specifically. Still love it, but as nobody I know would say - "they's wack, man."

I see you grew up in Quebec...Actually i know a couple of my friends who's also a gamer and they're nice people to talk with..

[maxlords]

Wait a minute....this law says only "IF a French version is available", right? So if there's NO French version available, shouldn't the English version still be available for sale in Quebec?

Just as an aside...I friggin HATE bilingual packaging...and French in general. Bleah. Totally pisses me off. I'd actually pay MORE for a game just to have English only packaging.


And I love how they interviewed Game Buzz in that article....literally the most overpriced game store I've EVER been to. Common SNES games... $40. Common NES games $30-50. I saw a copy of...what was it...um...Contra 3 for SNES...$60 or $70 loose. Insane. The whole store was like that and they had a MASSIVE inventory...but I could have bought everything in there on eBay for less than half the price. I honestly wanted to burn the whole store down the second I walked in it. I hope this law costs him a LOT of buisness.

[skaar]

On the record, I actually do quite love Quebec and the people in it. I'm just saying - there's a bunch of people that I've known there growing up and through the various goings on over the years that probably get the same reaction an amercian would have to a redneck giving out free handguns on a street corner. I'm stereotyping texas as the global example of "people with funny accents and a culture that doesn't quite jive with a lot of the country, but fits well within it and does have a lot of cool things in it"

Quebecois are very proud of their culture and language, and there's a lot of very cool things about it. There's a few that take it too far - and those are the ones that you just kind of stand back and go "Huh?"

The whole Bill 101 thing is old news but was big when I was still living there. French language always needing to be x percent bigger and come before/on top the english sign. Windows of shops that were over a hundred years old being smashed because they had big english words... it's the closest to racism I had to deal with growing up. My last name sounded very english when said "in english" and very french "in french" so I would hang out with two groups of friends. I had a hell of a time getting people from one group to hang with the other group though.

Anyway... morning ramble aside - these kind of silly language laws are par for the course in Quebec. It's too large a market for game makers and software publishers to ignore, and a pain in the ass to deal with it. But they have a lot of spending power and money there so people jump through the wacky hoops to get business done just like they always have.

It's not that big a deal in the long run.

[The 1 2 P]

I wonder how soon before they start banning English only speaking people.

[JSoup]

Or why citizens in states near the border refuse to learn Spanish.

Or why immigrants south of that boarder won't even attempt to learn English before entering an English speaking country.

[Kitsune Sniper]

Or why immigrants south of that boarder won't even attempt to learn English before entering an English speaking country.

Actually, by the time we graduate high school, we've already taken at least three years of English classes. Six or more if you're from one of the border states, like I am.

[TheDomesticInstitution]

Or why immigrants south of that boarder won't even attempt to learn English before entering an English speaking country.

This coming from someone who can't spell "border" correctly. "South of that boarder," huh? Your grammar and spelling skills make an excellent case for all xenophobics.

[JSoup]

This coming from someone who can't spell "border" correctly. "South of that boarder," huh? Your grammar and spelling skills make an excellent case for all xenophobics.

My grammar is fine, thanks, but you can have the typo if you'd like to preach a bit more.

[skaar]

My grammar is fine, thanks, but you can have the typo if you'd like to preach a bit more.

That's not a typo, that's an error ;)

[JSoup]

That's not a typo, that's an error ;)

Typos ARE errors.

A kind of error.

Like involuntary manslaughter.

[Push Upstairs]

Actually, by the time we graduate high school, we've already taken at least three years of English classes. Six or more if you're from one of the border states, like I am.

Did you actually enjoy English classes? By the time I hit 7th grade I was really tired of pronouns and sentence structure.

I do have a question: As a non-native English speaker, what aspect of the English language do you dislike the most?

I know someone from Peru and her biggest struggle (not really a dislike) was the gender neutral way things are described.

[Berserker]

Or why immigrants south of that boarder won't even attempt to learn English before entering an English speaking country.

I see it as a question of means, not desire. I'm sure just about all immigrants would love to be able to speak good English. It's just common-sense - being able to speak the country's native language gives you access to opportunities you wouldn't have otherwise, better jobs to provide for your family and so on. But the fact is that most immigrants who come up from the South are basically destitute - they spend all of what little money they have in making it up here, probably after selling their house and whatever few possessions they have.

All I'm saying is that you can't realistically expect people under such circumstances to just spring a few bills and order the Pimsleur System. You can want them to learn the language, and they should learn the language, but it's that much more of an enormous task when you completely lack the means.

America is going through some tough times right now - like just about every other country, though most of them are feeling it much worse - but we're still the wealthiest nation in the world. We totally have the means to teach ourselves a different language. More so than a bunch of mostly landless peasants fleeing their own country, anyway.

[Melf]

The whole "learn English if you want to live in America!" argument is completely LOL, considering that no initial wave of immigrants has made strides to do so since the country was founded. Chinese immigrants came to the U.S. and never made the attempt, just like German (which was once the language of schools in Pennsylvania, and documents there were available in German until 1950). It was their children and grandchildren that chose English over the native language. The only difference now is that the influx of immigrants speak Spanish.

The same thing is already occurring with Spanish in the U.S. too. First generation immigrants stick to the native language, and each successive generation embraces English more and more - just like every non-English-speaking immigrant group before it did.

[Icarus Moonsight]

Gotta love Quebec... So, this is what the separatist movement amounted up to huh? How... French. LOL

Texas is not a state, it is it's own country. We just flow with the union as long as it serves a better purpose. If you look at our infrastructure, we are set up to operate independently from the USA. The state has it's own power grid for one. It's interesting to look into. How about Quebec?

When Sam Houston had Mexico City surrounded under siege, he should have took it all into Texas and not give any territory taken from Mexico back, since these days, they're coming up here anyway. If Sam only had the foresight to be resolute on this then no one from Mexico would have to move to live in Texas or the US. They'd already be there. Sometimes being conquered is a better deal than it seems at first. :D

Being a citizen of the Republic of Texas, by choice mind you, I have nothing left to do today but shoot milk jugs with the sawed off double barrel and beat the wife. Open hand of course... I am a gentleman. So, I better finish off the milk and start an argument over the beer and cigarette money.

Oh yes. Also, we have sectioned off a portion of the state that we send the terminally liberal minded to keep them from infecting the rest of us with their red-pink cooties. It's called Austin, the California inside Texas.

/texas tangent also end fun

[Kitsune Sniper]

Did you actually enjoy English classes? By the time I hit 7th grade I was really tired of pronouns and sentence structure.

I do have a question: As a non-native English speaker, what aspect of the English language do you dislike the most?

I know someone from Peru and her biggest struggle (not really a dislike) was the gender neutral way things are described.

Actually I slept through most of my classes. I learned English from my mother, my relatives, video games and television. I never paid attention to class... I don't know any proper rules. I know the language by memory.

Anyway, the most annoying thing I've found? Easily? How Arkansas is written, and how it's said Arkensaw outloud. What the fuck is wrong with you people, you can't even pronounce the name right. :P

[Icarus Moonsight]

Blame the Native Americans most the state names are their words. We just applied the English alphabet to them.

I'd imagine that for someone learning English as a second+ language homophones and homonyms give a lot of trouble. Hell, there, their and they're trip up most of the average native English speakers.

SVO form (Subject-Verb-Object) could also be a problem. I know Japanese is giving me trouble because thoughts are formed and presented in a different way than I'm naturally inclined to think and speak -- thanks to SVO.

So, about that case if the game is in English only with no French version available... Can you still purchase them legally in Quebec? Are shipments from the States to Quebec going to be searched at customs to enforce this or does it extend only to retail?

[Howie6925]

When I used to buy ps2/xbox/GCN games they came with a french insert as well as a french manual or are they talking about when you are playing the game and the text is english and not french? It would be such a pain in the ass to re write the in game text to make it french.

[Kitsune Sniper]

So, about that case if the game is in English only with no French version available... Can you still purchase them legally in Quebec? Are shipments from the States to Quebec going to be searched at customs to enforce this or does it extend only to retail?

I think I read a comment at Kotaku (or was it GamePolitics?) that said internet retailers will NOT ship an item to Quebec if it doesn't have French in it. And that's just fucking ridiculous, honestly, it's like the US prohibiting Japanese import games because they're not in English!

[Push Upstairs]

Anyway, the most annoying thing I've found? Easily? How Arkansas is written, and how it's said Arkensaw outloud. What the fuck is wrong with you people, you can't even pronounce the name right. :P

People generally speak its name only when the place is being used as the butt of jokes.

The rest of the time we pretend the place doesn't exist. :D

[LuxKiller65]

Funny law!

Here in Luxembourg we've always been used to having to swim through different releases for each game: German-only, French-only, French-German, French-English, French-Dutch, Italian-Spanish-English-German-French-whatever-you-can-think-of, English-only-but-with-some-other-language-on-the-box-and-manual-so-that-you-think-the-game-is-translated-but-in-fact-it-is-not and so on so on.

Not for all games of course, but a lot of them for sure. And no one ever complained about this mess, which is actually cool and very positive in my opinion. Putting laws to make a certain language compulsory sounds just so narrow-minded to me, like they always seem to be to the left of us, especially now with the crisis.