Powerpak work with Retro Duo?

[Joe_Cracker]

Does the powerpak from retrousb.com work on a Retro Duo? If it does, I don't just want your word for it, I want you to actually post a video of it doing so on youtube for everyone to see because it would make this thing worth the money for me because my original NES doesn't work all that well.

[Diosoth]

Does the powerpak from retrousb.com work on a Retro Duo? If it does, I don't just want your word for it, I want you to actually post a video of it doing so on youtube for everyone to see.

It fails to work with clone systems for 1 of 2 reasons-

1) the clone hardware is incompatible for the same reasons that other games are incompatible

2) they intentionally designed it not to work with clone hardware.

Unortunately it costs too much for me to ever consider purchasing one.

[ProgrammingAce]

The website specifically says it's not compatible with clones. If it works for some people, great, but i wouldn't rely on it.

[skaar]

How much is a NES deck? Geez.

[namzep]

I've heard people say that it does but I was never able to get it working with mine. So, it's probably a crapshoot (like ProgrammingAce says) whether you would be able to get it to do so.

[Joe_Cracker]

Oh yeah? read this: http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=128749

[ProgrammingAce]

Oh yeah? read this: http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=128749

Ok, i read it. What am i supposed to see? It works for some people, but not others. NOACs aren't all that compatible with the NES's PPU (The Graphics processor). It's kind of a crapshoot.

[kaedesdisciple]

So, you don't trust anyone's word here when no one knows you from a hole in the wall? Geez, pretty demanding.

The site says, verbatim:


System Compatibility List:
Works on authentic Nintendo Systems including NTSC, PAL A, PAL B, and Asian top loader and toaster systems.

Works on Famicom using 72-60 pin converter.

Does NOT work on clone systems like the NEX, Yobo, or FC Twin.

Untested on portable systems, not likely to work.

Even if someone tells you and you can "see" it on a youtube video, that's still that person's system. No way to know if it'll work on yours or what strange glitches you'll see.

In other words, what ProgrammingAce & namzep said.

[Diosoth]

How much is a NES deck? Geez.

Okay, I am REALLY getting sick of this attitude.

Know how much I'd pay for a vintage NES at the only game store in my area that stocks them?

$60 for a frontloader, $100 for a crappy TF-only toploader. Neither of which would be in any guaranted condition. Either of which is too much money. I'd rather emulate the system for those prices.

Not everyone has access to thrift stores or decent garage sales, especially when you're in a redneck area.

[Oobgarm]

There's always the internet, you know. I'm sure you can find a reasonably priced deck either here one of the multiple auction sites.

[Joe_Cracker]

Well, it only applies to the Retro Duo V2.0 for all I know which has a longer game compatability list. None of you should be surprised if the powerpak is proven to be compatable. Mainly because of what I am planning on doing: https://sourceforge.net/projects/nesrommaker http://nesrommaker.wikispaces.com/

[ProgrammingAce]

Okay, I am REALLY getting sick of this attitude.

Know how much I'd pay for a vintage NES at the only game store in my area that stocks them?

$60 for a frontloader, $100 for a crappy TF-only toploader. Neither of which would be in any guaranted condition. Either of which is too much money. I'd rather emulate the system for those prices.

Not everyone has access to thrift stores or decent garage sales, especially when you're in a redneck area.

But the same store sells a RetroDuo for less then $60? 'Cause that's what we're talking about here.

I've never seen a store sell a RetroDuo for less then a front loader. If you're going online to get the RetroDuo for cheaper, you could still get the front loader for even less. I'm not sure what you're trying to say. Emulation is cheaper? Well, no duh. But you cant emulate the powerpak, so you're still completely off.

[Draven]

Geez. What a thread. Ya know, I've seen UFO's on youtube (which is actually one of the more believeable things you can find on there). It wouldn't matter if you saw a vid with your own eyes. Doesn't mean it will work for everyone. And I highly doubt that ANYWHERE in the continental US is so rural that you can't find a NES. I live in Eastern Kentucky..hillbilly central. I bought 3 NES's for $5 (total, not each). I got a toploader here for 10 bucks with 2 controllers. The more rural, the better. People practically give them away, you just have to look and keep your eyes open. In the past 2 months I've found Super Starfox Weekend and Bubble Bath Babes (for what you would commonly spend on a NES game) and I'm heading to the flea again this weekend to pick up Bubble Bobble 2 for 8 bucks (ran out of cash last weekend and the ATM was out of cash due to the first of the monthers...hillbilly central). Anyway, just keep your head up and you'll find that good deal eventually. If you don't, shoot me a pm and if you want to cover shipping I'll see if I can't find an old toaster deck around here for you (can't guarantee anything, I keep my spares in my tool closet and I throw tool boxes in there all the time so they may be destroyed by now).

[jeffg]

I tried it on 2 different retro duo's and I couldn't get it to work. I got a title screen but it wouldn't go any further

[Joe_Cracker]

I already have a Retro Duo, that's another reason why I posted this thread.

[Joe_Cracker]

This is what is says on retrousb.com
:START:System Compatibility List:
Works on authentic Nintendo Systems including NTSC, PAL A, PAL B, and Asian top loader and toaster systems.

Works on Famicom using 72-60 pin converter.

Does NOT work on clone systems like the NEX, Yobo, or FC Twin.

Untested on portable systems, not likely to work.:END:

The compatibitly list states that it works in a US NES, a European NES as well as a Famicom. The list also states which clones which it's doesn't work on and that's no surprise because these clones listed above, the Retro Duo makes them obsolite because it plays more original software.

[ProgrammingAce]

http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=114088

Frankie_says_the_powerpak_works

The difference between the retroduo and standard NOAC has nothing to do with the NOAC itself, but how it handles the cart busses. I would still think it's a crapshoot, because the NES PPU isn't 1:1 against the NOAC.

But if you're planning on developing some sort of NES engine builder, you would already know that. You can't possibly expect to write code for the NES and test it against an NOAC. Besides, what you want to make has already been created. Look for NBASIC by Bob Rost.

You do know there are at least 6 different NES assembly compilers, right? And you do know how to write Motorola 6502 assembly right? I highly recommend NESASM.

[ProgrammingAce]

Well, it only applies to the Retro Duo V2.0 for all I know which has a longer game compatability list. None of you should be surprised if the powerpak is proven to be compatable. Mainly because of what I am planning on doing: https://sourceforge.net/projects/nesrommaker http://nesrommaker.wikispaces.com/

I just read your website, you have no idea how the NES works do you?

[genesisguy]

Geez. What a thread. Ya know, I've seen UFO's on youtube (which is actually one of the more believeable things you can find on there). It wouldn't matter if you saw a vid with your own eyes. Doesn't mean it will work for everyone. And I highly doubt that ANYWHERE in the continental US is so rural that you can't find a NES. I live in Eastern Kentucky..hillbilly central. I bought 3 NES's for $5 (total, not each). I got a toploader here for 10 bucks with 2 controllers. The more rural, the better. People practically give them away, you just have to look and keep your eyes open. In the past 2 months I've found Super Starfox Weekend and Bubble Bath Babes (for what you would commonly spend on a NES game) and I'm heading to the flea again this weekend to pick up Bubble Bobble 2 for 8 bucks (ran out of cash last weekend and the ATM was out of cash due to the first of the monthers...hillbilly central). Anyway, just keep your head up and you'll find that good deal eventually. If you don't, shoot me a pm and if you want to cover shipping I'll see if I can't find an old toaster deck around here for you (can't guarantee anything, I keep my spares in my tool closet and I throw tool boxes in there all the time so they may be destroyed by now).


I live in Chicago we have two retro gaming stores where I can buy a used front loader for cheaper than a Retro Duo. I can go on ebay and find one for even cheaper than and cheaper than Retro Duo. Living in the city has it's advantages. That said, the best deals I've found are on vacations up in Wisconsin where I can probably find a NES console for 5-10 bucks.

Buy vintage!

[Sonicwolf]

The PowerPak should be designed to work with system clones as the reliability of the classic Nintendo Entertainment System is pretty much lame as lame can be.

[ProgrammingAce]

The PowerPak should be designed to work with system clones as the reliability of the classic Nintendo Entertainment System is pretty much lame as lame can be.

Then someone should design a clone that actually mimics the NES, instead of using an off-the-shelf 65xx processor and half-assing the PPU. Clone makers have been milking the same NOAC chip for 10 years now without an update. Now that the NES has been documented to high hell, how about one of those cloners actually steps up and makes a new NOAC?

Answer: because there's no market for it.

Which is amazingly the same reason they're not going to redesign the powerpak to work with cheap-ass clones.

[Sonicwolf]

Answer: because there's no market for it.


I have heard that the FC Twin has sold over a million units which is impressive for a clone. That would seem to signify a market for them.

[ProgrammingAce]

I have heard that the FC Twin has sold over a million units which is impressive for a clone. That would seem to signify a market for them.

There's a market for clones, they sell pretty damn well. There isn't a market for a $150 clone that's a perfect emulation of the NES. That's pretty much what it would take.

[Sonicwolf]

There's a market for clones, they sell pretty damn well. There isn't a market for a $150 clone that's a perfect emulation of the NES. That's pretty much what it would take.

Like I have said many times, perfection is irrelevant as long as the majority of the games works well and looks fine on the clone

[Diosoth]

I can understand WHY he wants to make triple sure this thing's going to work. At $130, I'd want a full 100% guarante of it being functional, too.

[ProgrammingAce]

Like I have said many times, perfection is irrelevant as long as the majority of the games works well and looks fine on the clone

Perfection is necessary if you want to guarantee the powerpak, it's a complicated damn device on the cutting edge of circuit design. There really isn't any wiggle room there.

[boatofcar]

I have heard that the FC Twin has sold over a million units which is impressive for a clone. That would seem to signify a market for them.

I like to see a source on this. A million worldwide or just in the US?

[Sonicwolf]

I like to see a source on this. A million worldwide or just in the US?

I cant even remember where I read it. Probably some crap-for-brains source like wikipedia.

[kaedesdisciple]

Even if it were a million+ clone units sold, that's a million+ units sold at that particular price (~40-50 USD). You think a small company can take the time to design, develop, build, test and market a whole new device that does pretty much the same thing that an already cheaper unit does with the only major difference being that it works with a special $150 device that very few people have? THAT's the cost you would need to justify, and the one almost no one will pay. It's a losing proposition from a business perspective as it would be nigh impossible to recoup all of that initial layout.

[Sonicwolf]

Someone needs to just make a whole new awesome cheap NOAC.

[Draven]

Someone needs to just make a whole new awesome cheap NOAC.

No, NOAC just needs to be done away with. I never understood the whole famiclone concept. Spend 80 bucks on a system that doesn't support some of the best NES games out there (we know which ones), or spend 80 bucks on a top load NES. AV outs can be installed pretty easily. Otherwise there is no advantage to a clone. I'm speaking from experience. They're garbage. Original is the only way to go.

[acem77]

unless the clones enhance the video and or sound why even bother.

Get a toaster nes and powerpak do the rgb and stereo mod. then do the extra audio channel mod to enable the powerpak to play extra audio we missed out from some japanese games.

[Draven]

unless the clones enhance the video and or sound why even bother.

Get a toaster nes and powerpak do the rgb and stereo mod. then do the extra audio channel mod to enable the powerpak to play extra audio we missed out from some japanese games.

Tell it on the mountain, brother!!!! :rocker:

[Joe_Cracker]

He said it would coast some money but the guy who built the powerpak said that it is possible for him to build a new motherboard for the original front loading NES that would be 100% compatable with all original and new games, including the powerpak if that ever happens it could be like this NES clone more powerful then all the others out there.

Right now he needs $150,000 to start the project which I think deserves the right of the title "Perfect Clone"

[Joe_Cracker]

It's been a while, I can tell you this. There are so many NOAC chips out there that are used in these clones but so far "no one" has been able to make perfect copy of the program that is in the original 6502 chips that where used in original hardware. Plus, someone sent me an email, saying that he got a hold of an NES game that had "never been open." and his NES has a cleaned motherboard and a new 72pin connector and the games he owned for years still didn't work. This one game works like new, my guess is that if you get your motherboard cleaned and a new pin connector then you shouldn't have any problems plus he also owns a copy of retrousb's cart copy of the 1990 Nintendo World Championship and it works well as the same as this old game that could have remained a collector's item if he didn't open it.

The real trick for these clones is like for example, a perfect copy of the original NOAC program that is compatable with all NES software. He also says that his powerpak is a dream but I think it could be more.

I'm challenging the creator of the Powerpak to go even further, make a new version of the powerpak that acts as a external harddrive with built in Flash Memory that uses USB and not reliant on a compact flash card and the flash memory needs to be much faster then a CF card and handle double the number of mappers. There is also idea of a "cart on demand." service, stating that if you NES cart is "beyond repair" it can be replaced with a new board, use ciclone lockout, the inside of the cart is cleaned, and your old cart and the original board will be recycled "Not tossed in a land fill but recycled" by people who recycle old computers and stuff.

I'm holding off my purchase of a powerpak because I got a damaged Retro Duo that won't play anything, not even Super Mario Bros. It's only good for SNES titles.

[MachineGex]

He said it would coast some money.....

Where are you from? Jersey? Australia? :p

[ProgrammingAce]

I'm challenging the creator of the Powerpak to go even further, make a new version of the powerpak that acts as a external harddrive with built in Flash Memory that uses USB and not reliant on a compact flash card and the flash memory needs to be much faster then a CF card and handle double the number of mappers.

The compact flash interface is much faster then the data channels in the NES. Changing to a flash storage would have no effect on performance and only add to cost. The difference between CF and internal memory is simply a matter of preference. I personally would much rather have removable storage then rely on the device itself.

The issue of mappers has very little to do with the hardware. The hardware can support a vast majority of games. There might be a few dozen NES games that the powerpak hardware can't handle, if that. The issue with the mappers is that a lot of the uncommon ones aren't well understood. Nobody has spent the time to reverse engineer them properly. It's a software issue rather then a hardware issue. Really the only mappers it couldn't support are the ones with more then 512K of memory, and that's only because of the FPGA.

[Lanf]

Nope, the PowerPak doesn't work with Retro Duo (v2.0)... and that sucks. :mad: