How do you feel about SEGA these days?

[optic_85]

The name SEGA always brings up good memories for me. From Genesis to Dreamcast, they released some of the greatest, most original, and charming games ever made. There were a few half baked ideas along the way, but they more than made up for their mistakes. When they turned into a software only company, I was sad, but hopeful. They stated off alright, but these days they seem like they're more in to making a cheap buck, than producing original, and engaging games. I haven't played all the post DC Sonic games, but for the most part they seem like cheap, flawed games. The games that officially made me angry with SEGA was NiGHTS for the Wii. NiGHTS for the Saturn is one of my top 5 favorite games, and after years of hoping for a sequel, and reading dozens of rumors of my favorite flying jester's return, they released a rushed, and painfully unoriginal sequel with poor controls...What a bummer. Anyway, this turned into a sort of a rant. How do you feel?

[thom_m]

Oh, what the hell, I still like them. I was a sega guy during the MD/SNES feud and, although I have a lot of fun with my SNES today, it's the Mega Drive who holds a special place in my heart. Maybe because I never had that much contact with their post-Mega Drive/Genesis shenanigans, but still...

[ShinobiMan]

This is a sore subject for me. It's true. Sega sucks these days. It's hard for me to say that too, as I was one of their biggest fans. But the Sega of yesteryear is gone, transformed into the money grubbing bastardized version you see today. I can't tell you the last time I played a decent game released by Sega, save the recent Genesis collection they released on 360, and all that did was remind me of how great they used to be. I too was put off by the Nights sequel, a game that could have been great and should have been made YEARS ago for the Dreamcast. And don't even get me started on Sonic, a once beloved beacon of quality turned into a Spyro The Dragon quick buck character romp.

Maybe one day, when they get their head checked and realize that sub-par bland gaming is tarnishing their name, I'll consider myself a fan again.

I know that's a bit harsh, but I feel it's realistic. I will always cherish my memories with the Sega of old, but the Sega of today leaves me feeling cold.

[LiquidPolicenaut]

I feel the same sad way about Sega. Great memories form Genesis to Dreamcast....but, no love for Yakuza 1 & 2? I thought they were both good remnants of the Sega from a bygone day...even the demo I played of Yakuza 3 was nice too :)

[crazyjackcsa]

They used to be more hit than miss, now, more miss than hit. They've made some interesting games, if poor selling. You can't tell me Madworld and HOTD Overkill are horrible games. VF is still rocking, Sonic on the DS is pretty much a sure thing. Condemned was pretty good, as was that racing one.

[Aussie2B]

....but, no love for Yakuza 1 & 2? I thought they were both good remnants of the Sega from a bygone day...even the demo I played of Yakuza 3 was nice too :)

That. As long as they have the Yakuza series, they're doing just fine. It's basically their Metal Gear Solid, yet hardly anybody outside of Japan realizes this (granted, it doesn't help that both Sega and the producer believe that it doesn't have much of a market outside of Japan, so they barely even try). You guys gotta stop chasing after their kiddie crap like Sonic which everyone knows they ruined years ago and give their more obscure stuff that isn't marketed to 10-year-olds a try. Don't get me wrong, I love family-friendly games and they're predominantly what I play, but gone are the days in which Sega developed games that everyone could enjoy. They got quickly thrown together trash that only little kids with no discerning taste could enjoy, and then they have stuff like Madworld for us adults.

[optic_85]

Hey right after I created this topic I happened to stumble upon an article about SEGA on IGN. It's a very interesting story, and the last couple pages give some great insight into SEGA's recent decline. Check it out.

[Johnny Pow!]

From Genesis to Dreamcast, they released some of the greatest, most original, and charming games ever made.
So the games for the Master System sucked?

[Sonicwolf]

I feel that Sega is nothing but a shredded hulk of its former self. Its dissapointing that such a company could fall so far.

[ronclon]

For me Sega was great during the master system days and Genesis days and of course the arcades games were outstanding even long before that. Once they went to the saturn is when they started going downhill in my view. Their biggest character has just never translated well to 3d for me which is probably why the handheld sonic games are seen by most people as the best for the last 8 -10 years. Turning Phantasy Star into an online game is another thing that has killed them for me. Also they don't use enough of their IPs . So many characters from the past should be getting games but instead just sit there doing nothing.

[The 1 2 P]

Sega was so awesome back during the 16 bit era. They stumbled with the Saturn(atleast in the US) but made up for it with the Dreamcast. Today, I do admire them atleast trying some new stuff(like Mad World) and putting Sonic together with Mario(although it's arguable that they needed that game to have a huge success).

But I also agree with the sentiment that Sega is no longer the gaming powerhouse they use to be. And to be honest, I don't think they'll ever return to even a fraction of their former glory(regardless of not making consoles anymore). But when they decide to start putting out more quality software I will be more than happy to continue supporting them. But for now, that support is going elsewhere.

[Draven]

I gave up on Sega with the Saturn. They ruined pretty much every franchise they had. The only thing I admire that they've done recently is put some adult-based games on the Wii...'bout time somebody did.

[Insaneclown]

I'm just going to say...I wish the old days never left...or the technology. LoL


I wish were still in the 16-bit days. Good old...Nintendo VS Sega...the best two.

[NayusDante]

Growing up, I was a Nintendo kid. However, "the grass is always greener" was always true, and I loved Sonic as much as any proper Sega fan. I had only an NES until 1995, at which point I was beginning to seriously want a Genesis. However, my parents (and Mega Man X) convinced me otherwise and I got my SNES that year. Looking back, the SNES library was "tamer" than that of the Genesis, but SNES had more of my kind of games anyway. Still, I was always wondering what it would be like to have a Genesis, since it always seemed like the world I couldn't have. I only got to play Sonic 2 twice a year, and that was in the waiting room to see the dentist.

The first Sega console I owned was my Dreamcast, and I really thought that I would be jumping into the world of Sega. However, things ended up being very different. If software sales were hurting the Dreamcast, I sure didn't help, as the only new games I ever bought were Sonic Adventure and Evolution, the latter was in a discount bin. Since I never liked sports and didn't go for many arcade ports back then, I just played the hell out of Sonic Adventure and my used copy of Crazy Taxi. For most of the Dreamcast's life, I was waiting for something amazing, but it never came. I would have picked up PSO earlier (LOVE it now), but I wasn't into online gaming back then, and was not aware of the single-player component. Looking back at Genesis and SMS, I think that the same thing would have happened.

Now that I've shifted my focus from following current gaming to collecting, I've completely rethought Sega. I'm much more receptive to arcade gameplay now than I was then, so I'm definitely having fun experiencing the Sega side of things for the first time. That said, it's painful to come back to reality, where Sega is a shell of its former self. Their console division's output seems like a joke, and I really can't think of any other way to describe it. I'm utterly amazed to see Sega properties today with the knowlege of what the company once was.

Post-Dreamcast crap aside, their arcade division has apparently been manufacturing Grade-A Awesome. Has anyone played House of the Dead 4 in an arcade? How about After Burner Climax? While they've essentally ignored the home market, their legacy of great hardware lives on in (dying) arcades. Their current arcade platform (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Sega_arcade_system_boards#Sega_RingEdge_an d_RingWide) gets things right by using off-the-shelf PC components, replacing the machines based on Microsoft and Nintendo consoles.

Since Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo all follow the same formula of stock or slightly custom PC hardware in their consoles, there's not very much difference in Sega's arcade strategy. With that said, the arcade industry is NOT thriving, and if/when it tanks, Sega's next probable (well, my PREFERRED) move would be to produce a console based on their current arcade spec.

Here's what you'd see and an approximation of the costs. Keep in mind that these specs are a bit over the PS3 and 360, but maybe not up to snuff with what we'll be seeing in ~2011.

* CPU: Intel Pentium Dual-Core E2160 (1.8 GHz) - NOT an expensive chip! The E2200 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116063)is only $70
* RAM: 1 GB (DDR2 PC-6400) - $15 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145153) gets you 2gb at the same speed
* GPU: nVidia GeForce 8800GS/9600GSO, 384 MB GDDR3 RAM (Shader Model 4.0) - $50 after rebate (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125259)
* Storage: 32GB SSD - $71 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148255), could probably cut this out and go with a cheaper drive
* OS: Microsoft Windows Embedded Standard 2009 - They can't pay that much to license it, it's also part of the motherboard, so let's say the mobo is about $85
* Other: 5.1 channel HD Audio, Onboard Gigabit LAN, Sega ALL.NET online support

~$300 plus the case, power supply, optical drive (or CompactFlash slot...), controller, and packaging. And that's retail price for components, I'm sure that wholesale is cheaper. Write an OS front end that does something media related for non-gamers, sell it for $350, and give the PS3 a run for its money. For added value, include a TV tuner.

In short, Sega isn't going to get by with what the arcade industry is becoming. They could have a bright future if they do a proper console, or they can ride the bus until it goes off the cliff. Like their musical friend Michael Jackson, they've become a washed up/screwed up legend that just isn't cool anymore. That's how I feel about Sega these days.

[DigitalSpace]

Sega was once a great company, but those days are over. Today, they're like THQ - they'll publish something interesting every now and then, but most of their new releases are licensed dreck, and they don't seem to care about their old franchises aside from the name recognition.

[optic_85]

So, I posted that last bit about an article, without posting a link to the article! Color me the darkest shade of "idiot". Well here's the link:

http://retro.ign.com/articles/974/974695p1.html

Some really interesting responses so far. I was surprised to see a people say that they gave up on SEGA around the time of Saturn. I will admit that Saturn was a flawed console, and the marketing was poor, but the games were good, and they were original.

[Cryomancer]

dissapointed.

[BydoEmpire]

I loved my Master System growing up, and I've always been a fan of their games. But these days I just don't trust them to consistently deliver great games like they used to. They seem more like a publisher who farms out whatever project they want to some dev house, and puts it on the shelf. Occasionally the games are good, but often they're not. Since losing their internal teams (or the key people on those teams), they don't have the same soul.

I can never stay mad a Sega, though, even if they haven't done a great (console) Sonic game since the Saturn and screwed up the next-gen Golden Axe. HotD:Overkill was a blast, Outrun Arcade made me turn on my 360 for the first time in ages, and I'm hoping Virtua Tennis 09 on Wii will be great w/ MW+ support.

[Sudo]

Valkyria Chronicles is excellent, as are the Yakuza games. Sega still makes great games every so often, and they publish some of them as well.

[boatofcar]

I gave up on Sega with the Saturn. They ruined pretty much every franchise they had. The only thing I admire that they've done recently is put some pointlessly gory games on the Wii...'bout time somebody did.

Fixed that for you.

[Push Upstairs]

I feel today's SEGA is really only shares the same name with the company of the 80's-90's. They used to be hit makers, but anymore they settle for being average.

[Gameguy]

I like how Sega was during the Genesis days, but they've gone downhill since then. Now they don't even have a home console anymore. Their best days are behind them.

[xDerekRx]

My favorite all time systems will always be SATURN and DC. So I wish Sega would some day get the know how to make another system and return to glory!

The Saturn and DC were great systems that were just not treated well in the States. Especially Saturn. If it was given the same appreciation and time it would have rivaled PSX and N64

[Kevincal]

I stopped caring about Sega after the Genesis/32X. I chose the PS over the Saturn for obvious reasons. I lost interest in videogames from the late N64 period until the PS2 came out. So I missed the Dreamcast boat. I wasn't that impressed with the DC when I got it around 2003.. Beautiful graphics, but very shallow games imo. No replay value.

[swlovinist]

Sega is not their former self, but I do like the occasional hit that they have been churning out. I will take what I can get, even if that means I have to endure Sonic being wayyy overused and hoared out. I agree with Yakuza 1 and 2 being excellent, along with Overkill on the Wii. Heck I even really enjoyed THE CLUB. The Sonic DS games(that play like the orginal ones) are pretty good. I feel that they have enought franschises that they own to make a couple of great hits if they do them right....not the crap like Golden Axe Beastrider....ugg

[j_factor]

I think Sega is still putting out good stuff. Other than the Sonic series, the Shining series (god what happened to this series :(), and the movie licenses no one expects to be good anyway, most of their games are good still. Valkyria Chronicles, Yakuza 1 and 2, Mad World, HOTD Overkill, Condemned, Virtua Fighter 5, Virtua Tennis 3, The Club, etc. are all great IMO. PS Universe was kind of poopy, but Zero looks awesome. I'm also definitely looking forward to 7th Dragon, which will be Rieko Kodama's first game in a while. Let's Tap, which I initially thought would be awful, actually looks interesting.

[Xian042]

I feel the same way everybody else does about Sega, I wont waste time retelling it. Instead, I'll say what I'd like to see Sega do from this point.

#1, bring back some forgotten IP's, in a good way.

I really had hopes for Golden Axe. As soon as I heard you can only use Tyris those hopes were gone, I could see where they were going. There are still some good IP's they could bring back with some talent behind them to pick up some cred. Streets of Rage, Shadow Dancer, After Burner, Alex Kidd, Altered Beast (yes, Altered Beast), and the original Phantasy Star story arc.
Perhaps the first step wouldnt be to make rushed super next gen powerhouse remakes of these games, but perhaps go the Bionic Commando route and update the originals with some spiffy graphics and make them available for download. I think that would be some easy bank for them. Also, make up for the HORRIBLE Wii NiGHTS by porting the original to the DS, or port the PS2 version of the original to the PSP2. I hear the PSP2 is supposed to have touch control like the DS. How awsome would touch control NiGHTS be? I also think a redo of Panzer Dragoon Saga is in order, make that available for download as well. Make it the original with a fresh coat of paint, and none of the pop up that was the Saturn versions only real eyesore. (I know Sega already tried this with the Sega Ages line, but it needs to be pushed more, and bring the Phantasy Star remakes to the US!!!)

#2. Yes, stay out of the hardware biz.

As much as I'd love a Dreamcast2, the wiser half of my brain knows this just won't fly, no matter how great of a system it is. MAYBE if another big tech giant approaches them and says they want to develop a system under the Sega name, maybe Sega will learn with the mistakes they made with the coulda been Sega 64 and Sega PlayStation. Apple, are you listening? Make a Sega iGame.

#3. Hire a new face.

Bernie Stolar was the face of the Dreamcast, and they screwed that up. Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, Trip Hawkins, Yuji Naka, Miyamoto, Peter Moore. you associate these people with their respective companies. Sega needs a new face, someone to make people identify with the human side of the company.

#4. Kill Sonic

Or at least someone please come to their senses and realize what we actually WANT in a Sonic game! Unleashed could have been great, the first trailers looked VERY interesting, it was basically a super duper version of the DS Rush series. That would have been just fine, could they leave it at that? Nope, they gave us the Warehog, why...why! WHY??? Who the HELL is coming up with this crap? How is it that I, a lowly dorky gamer guy, can hear the word "werehog", and instantly know the game is going to be crap, but these educated corporate brainy types sit there at the discussion tables nodding thier heads thinking THIS is what the series needs? Sega, hire me, I'll help you save some face, ok?

I could go on, but i"m not. So long Sega

[Kevincal]

Take Sonic back to STRICTLY 2d. It's as simple as that!

[xDerekRx]

Take Sonic back to STRICTLY 2d. It's as simple as that!

Ha, ya its funny people complain about Sonic Xtreme never coming out for the Saturn, but maybe in hinesight a 3D sonic just wasnt meant to be thus the Sonic Jam collection was actually a smart move.

Sonics speed is hard to control in 3D. It seems alot of the new Sonic games have almost gotten things right but then found some small ways to fooey it up.

[BydoEmpire]

Sonics speed is hard to control in 3D. It seems alot of the new Sonic games have almost gotten things right but then found some small ways to fooey it up.I thought Sonic & the Secret Rings was close. The controls were a little iffy, and it didn't have the"find different paths through the level" style of 2d Sonics, but it definitely had the sense of speed. It also didn't have the horrible camera issues, poor "extra" gameplay elements (swords, guns, mechs, etc) and lame secondardy characters of most 3d sonics. Haven't played Black Knight yet, but from the reviews it sounds like they may have taken a step backwards. I think Sonic can definitely work in 3D, it's just that their execution has been consistently sloppy.

[NayusDante]

What if Sonic in 3D played more like Mario 64? Mario 64 has much more fluid controls than Sonic Adventure, and the focus of a level is reaching a goal with the use of your character's abilities. Where Mario would jump, Sonic would build up speed to use ramps and loops. The levels in Mario 64 are more open-ended, while Sonic has been going for more linear paths.

[AMG]

I miss the old console days SEGA. They had so much creativity.

[SegaAges]

I am still to this day a die hard sega fanboy. I absolutely love the company.

I will say that the licensed movie games are weak sauce (golden compass, seriously?).

They still have awesome games out there. I am a 360 owner, and have been enjoying some of their newer titles. Sonic Unleashed got a huge bad rap, but I really enjoyed the game. Sonic 06 was equally as fun. Virtua Tennis and sega superstars tennis are money.

As with all companies, there is no way to make every single game perfect.

I will stand up to people hating on Sega all day.

I own a 4 foot tall Sonic statue for fucks sake if that tells you anything about my commitment.

I took a jamma cab and converted it to st-v.

Sega has expanded and has been trying new things. Sometimes the ideas work well, and sometimes they fail bad (golden compass, seriously).

We can't ignore some of the awesome games that they have got going. They got armored core 4, chromehounds, sonic unleashed (i thought the entire game was awesome), condemned (I have 2 but have not played it yet, but 1 is awesome), even the club (very arcadey feel and reminded me of OutTrigger).

I will not ignore the elephant in the room, and that is nights. I own it for the Wii, and while it is super fun, the problem with that game is that in the original, you knew what you had to do and it was not bad to play. This one, yeah, anybody that has made it to that stupid lizard with the playing cards knows why I stopped at that level.

Sonic and the secret rings was fun. Sonic and Mario at the Olympics was fun (I got it for ds, and it is definately a sega game on ds, and yes, I said that name right, regardless of how it is printed).

Sega has some incredible games, the only problem is that the crappy games are overshadowing the good games.

Like I said, I will justify new Sega until the company is no more. I love the company and what it does. Even with the crappy games, I can easily ignore them as long as they put out the good games to make up for it.

Sega did not die at the genesis or even saturn, the sega lives on. While Sega has had a tough time, I will still support them.

Long live Sega!
Sonic Forever!

[Push Upstairs]

What if Sonic in 3D played more like Mario 64? Mario 64 has much more fluid controls than Sonic Adventure, and the focus of a level is reaching a goal with the use of your character's abilities. Where Mario would jump, Sonic would build up speed to use ramps and loops. The levels in Mario 64 are more open-ended, while Sonic has been going for more linear paths.

My vision of a 3D Sonic was a 3D realization of how he is shown in the Sonic CD intro: running, jumping off rocks, handstand & flip over obstacles all to maintain maximum speed.

I have no idea how it would be done, but the idea is awesome in my mind.

[NayusDante]

My vision of a 3D Sonic was a 3D realization of how he is shown in the Sonic CD intro: running, jumping off rocks, handstand & flip over obstacles all to maintain maximum speed.

I have no idea how it would be done, but the idea is awesome in my mind.

The problem is that they actually DID this with the 3D games. However, all you did was press the jump button when you reached the next platform.

I've seen the interview a million times, where someone from Sega says that Sonic's two main features are his speed and "coolness." Coolness doesn't mean a thing without solid gameplay.

[Push Upstairs]

Nah, you gotta do (simple) combo presses to pull off cool shit like hand stands...like Down and Action Button maybe followed by the jump to do a mid-air buzzsaw spin attack.

[optic_85]

My vision of a 3D Sonic was a 3D realization of how he is shown in the Sonic CD intro: running, jumping off rocks, handstand & flip over obstacles all to maintain maximum speed.

I have no idea how it would be done, but the idea is awesome in my mind.

Sounds like your imagining some sort of Mirror's Edge style Sonic game. I don't know if that would really work for a full game, but maybe some sort of bonus stage would be cool. Interesting idea.

[tomaitheous]

I didn't trust Sega for quite a while, then I rented the new Golden Axe. It just re-enforced my lack in trust further. The only thing I really-really-really wanted was that Sega Ages remake of PSII in 3D for the PS2. I hate them for not bringing that out here states side.