Is this a real factory sealed saturn game or a reseal?

[BrYaN55]

I bought a factory sealed Panzer Dragoon Saga on eBay, but I feel the game was resealed. This is my first Factory Sealed Saturn game, so I am not sure how I can tell if it's legit or not.

What I found suspicious, is that I didn't win the auction, the seller sent me a second chance offer because the original winner did not pay in the time allowed (48 hours). At that price (321.55$), it's seems strange to me that the selller was willing to accept the second chance offer if the game was really factory sealed...

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&item=170321710971

http://www.quebecgamers.com/ccjvq/pds/panzer-dragoon-saga-sealed1.jpg
http://www.quebecgamers.com/ccjvq/pds/panzer-dragoon-saga-sealed2.jpg
http://www.quebecgamers.com/ccjvq/pds/panzer-dragoon-saga-sealed3.jpg
http://www.quebecgamers.com/ccjvq/pds/panzer-dragoon-saga-sealed4.jpg
http://www.quebecgamers.com/ccjvq/pds/panzer-dragoon-saga-sealed5.jpg
http://www.quebecgamers.com/ccjvq/pds/panzer-dragoon-saga-sealed6.jpg


So, does it seems legit to you?

[Jimmy Yakapucci]

Reseal or not, he stated that there were no tears in the shrink wrap. I guess that doesn't cover the hole in the shrink wrap on the back. It doesn't show up really well in his picture, (go figure), but it shows up great in yours. That alone would be enough to sour me on the deal.

JY

[BrYaN55]

Reseal or not, he stated that there were no tears in the shrink wrap. I guess that doesn't cover the hole in the shrink wrap on the back. It doesn't show up really well in his picture, (go figure), but it shows up great in yours. That alone would be enough to sour me on the deal.

JY

Yes, I know, that was a little frustrating because it's clearly stated that there's no holes. I'm gonna accept it if it's a real factory sealed game though...

[bcks007]

You should let some other collectors confirm its sealed or not. My gut and eyes tell me its fake, but i don't collect for that system. So ignore those last words if im wrong.....

[BrYaN55]

You should let some other collectors confirm its sealed or not. My gut and eyes tell me its fake, but i don't collect for that system. So ignore those last words if im wrong.....

I feel the same, I am more a NES, SNES & Genesis guy, I don't know much about sealed Saturn games. Anyway, from the beginning I feel there's something wrong but I took a chance. Like I said, just the fact that he is willing to let it go as a second chance offer for 322$ is strange. For me, if it was a real PDS factory sealed, I would be more than happy if the winner didn't buy it at 360$ and would not offer a second chance. I would relist the item with good pictures proving it IS factory sealed and sell it (hoping) for a lot more.

If it's factory sealed, then I will accept the hole in the shrink wrap and be very happy with the game!

[tkusina]

Is it just me or does it look like there is dirt in the grooves of the gray bar running down the left front side? Not saying there is but it looks like it from the picture.

I would look for nuances and wear like that inside the shrink wrapping as an indicator. Also, didn't the saturn games have a hang tab? In addition i have never seen an actual saturn game sealed with the seem running like that all around the sides.

Also, as a sealed game collector i would be a bit concerned with the hole in the shrink wrapping. Obviously the main reason to purchase a sealed game is value. That hole is only going to get bigger over time.

[Swamperon]

Just compared it with my sealed Saturn game and it looks completely different to the above. Mine has the seals folded over (much like how you see most new games sealed these days) with no bits sticking out.

Of course mine may be fake, so other opinions may be needed.

[Pezcore343]

I have one sealed Saturn game and the shrink wrap looks similar but it does have a hang tab. Then again mine was from amazon and I wasn't too concerned if it was new, so it might be a fake.

[FxMercenary]

The best way to tell if it is a re-seal is to look at the black plastic portion on the front. If there is any dirt or dust in the grooves of the black plastic strip, it is a re-seal.

Also check the wording in the auction, does it say never opened? or just sealed?

[BrYaN55]

Is it just me or does it look like there is dirt in the grooves of the gray bar running down the left front side? Not saying there is but it looks like it from the picture.

I would look for nuances and wear like that inside the shrink wrapping as an indicator. Also, didn't the saturn games have a hang tab?

Also, as a sealed game collector i would be a bit concerned with the hole in the shrink wrapping. Obviously the main reason to purchase a sealed game is value. That hole is only going to get bigger over time.

Here's an email from the guy before I bought the game:

Dear bryan-55,

hi,
Its factory sealed not resealed..This game goes for about 225 in mint condition so I would not risk my reputation for another 100 bucks believe me..Im going to send you the second chance offer because the winner needs 3 days to pay he says and I am not willing to wait as my ad stated. Especially since he has 2 negatives in his feedback for non payment..sending to you now and ill ship today.thanks..Howard


- factorysealedvideogames

Upon your message, I checked the game again... At first, I thought that the dust was over the shrink wrap, but I found that a small grain is in fact under the shrink wrap...

A friend of mine sent me pictures of a sealed Saturn game he has, here's how it look. That feel more like the real thing to me...

http://www.quebecgamers.com/ccjvq/pds/100_0269.JPG
http://www.quebecgamers.com/ccjvq/pds/100_0271.JPG

[tkusina]

Yeah it looks like you got a reseal for sure. The seem not being down the back middle is the biggest giveaway.

I would email this guy and demand my money back. You have alot of proof this is a reseal. If you have problems with him you can file a claim with Ebay. Just be ready to show so proof to back up your claim.

Here is Ebay's description of new: Brand New - Item has never been opened or removed from the manufacturer’s sealing. Item must be in original shrink wrap.

Good Luck.

[BrYaN55]

Well, I have sent an email to the seller. If some expert can second that it's resealed, don't hesitate ;)

[BrYaN55]

Here's the answer from the seller:

Dear bryan-55,

Brian,
I have never seen a Saturn game with a vertical seam. Nintendo factories used those. (nes,snes,n64,gba,gbc,ect).I wont be online tonight but like I said we can send this to the VGA for grading and authentication if you would like..take care..Howard

Dear bryan-55,

Hey Brian,
Your game is new..The hang tag does not mean anything. Some factories put them on and some retail stores themselves added them. I once got a negative feedback under another account from a game collector because a game I sent him had a hangtag...Lets send your game to the VGA to get it graded so you will see...


- factorysealedvideogames

Some I hope someone who knows about Factory Sealed Saturn games can give us his advice :D

[Sailorneorune]

This makes me wonder about the Earthworm Jim Special Edition for the Sega CD that's been sitting at a local shop sealed and reasonably priced for a few years... I had picked up one for trade, and the person I sent it to had no complaints (other than the disc coming loose in shipping - apparently "fragile" means "use as a football" when run through Babelfish). But I still wonder.

[ZBo]

I just looked at my PDS which is unopened and there is no seam down the spine. Also, the shrinkwrap going down the back is similar to the picture posted of Magic Knight Rayearth. Mine also has the hang tag. I bought mine from Toys R Us when they were cleaning out their Saturn inventory.

[Pete Rittwage]

Yeah, that is a rather poor reseal. The dirt in the grooves on the front side, the hole in the back, and the heat strip melted sides. I resealed games back in the early 90's (I worked for Electronics Boutique and this was normal procedure for returned games) and if you were in a hurry it would look like that. :(

[dcx516]

Here's the answer from the seller:

Dear bryan-55,

Brian,
I have never seen a Saturn game with a vertical seam. Nintendo factories used those. (nes,snes,n64,gba,gbc,ect).I wont be online tonight but like I said we can send this to the VGA for grading and authentication if you would like..take care..Howard

Dear bryan-55,

Hey Brian,
Your game is new..The hang tag does not mean anything. Some factories put them on and some retail stores themselves added them. I once got a negative feedback under another account from a game collector because a game I sent him had a hangtag...Lets send your game to the VGA to get it graded so you will see...


- factorysealedvideogames

Some I hope someone who knows about Factory Sealed Saturn games can give us his advice :D

BULLSHIT. Those VGA guys are bullshit. Every single sealed saturn game i own has a hangtag. the hangtag can be opened up to hang up or left closed to stack. Dont waste your time sending the game to VGA its a waste of money

[SkiDragon]

I just looked at a copy of NHL 97 for the Saturn, which is sealed. It does not have a hang tag or a seam down the back. I guess it could have been resealed, but I think I bought if for $0.99 so somebody was wasting their time if they did reseal it.

[gumbyandpals]

I purchased sealed panzer dragoon saga quite a few years back. I got it off of ebay, but I am nearly 100% positive it was not a reseal. The case looked brand new, no dirt in the grooves, "new" smell, and this game had several advertising inserts that came with it (dead giveaway if you open it and they're not there). Mine had a hang tag exactly like the one pictured for magic knight rayearth.

Yeah, I opened it. The value plummeted about 100 bucks but I get more satisfaction out of it if I can open a rare game for the first time and then just keep it in mint condition after that. I don't believe in keeping games sealed.

Anyway, if you feel like opening it, look for the inserts. If you don't want to open it, try to peek in on the top and bottom for extra paper besides the manual.

[howardnyc]

I might as well post direct here since my emails wind up here anyway. I would like to know what dirt under the shrinkwrap has to do with a game being new or not. I have had snes games with vertical seams that were in such bad condition under the shrinkwrap that I could not even sell them. I had a factory sealed Mario Kart original release that I had to open and sell cart only becasue the box was so bad. Many games have factory vent holes, shrinkwrap small imperfections or tears and over years moisture, dirt, ect work there way through the holes onto the box. I have seen mold on factory sealed games. Many of these old games have been in boxes and if the temperature is too high where the games are stored (usually in attics or basements) so the wear occurs. You have to store the games properly to avoid this and when you are buying from stores closing down you will not find the games given the proper care as if you were buying from a game collector. Also, in my experience a resealer changes the case on the saturn games before resealing them. Why reseal a dirty case when for like a dollar you can seal a replacement case? There is no artwork on the back of the case so who would know? Why reseal a dirty case? Makes no sense at all to me sorry. Explain to me please. Also to the VGA is bullshit guy, why is it bullshit? I know they are expensive but are you saying they can not verify if a game is new or not?

[howardnyc]

The Ski Dragon guy above says he has a sports game he paid $1 for and it has no seam or tag so did someone reseal a $1 game or do not all Saturn games have hangtags or seams like I told Brian? Ill wait for a reponse.

[BrYaN55]

Well, sorry for posting your emails here. I simply wanted to post the one where you says it's factory sealed. I didn't want to make a bad name for you or anyhting, I wanted some expert opinion on the game because it feel strange to me, it's not everyday that you come across a PDS factory sealed.

Like I said, I have a bunch of NES, SNES and Genesis games brand new, and I can feel they are authentic just by holding them, but with your PDS, the first second I had the game in my hands, I felt it was wrong... Personally, I would definitely say it's a reseal! But I wanted to ask other peoples before jumping to conclusion.

Look at this guy's video on youtube (this video make me buy a FS PDS), he have a PDS factory sealed (8:40), and you can see the vertical seam (maybe it's not called a seam but you can see an horizontal line from top to bottom at the back), the hang tab: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ducd7zDDV4

Also, look at the pictures I've posted of Magic Knight Rayearth, they also have a vertical seam, only my copy of PDS look different.

I would be the happiest guy in the world if I can be sure my copy is legit. Right now, I can't go on and say, I have a factory sealed PDS!! Because I don't believe it myself.

[howardnyc]

Also,
Can someone here please blow up the photo of the back of my game in my ad..I do not see a hole and I am sure I would have noticed that. Thanks in advance

[howardnyc]

Brian,
The people on this forum are trying to help you but the information is false. I am also concerned about that hole in the back. Blow up my photo, I am 99.9% sure there was no hole at all. I dont know how I could have missed that. Do you want to open the game and check the cd? Ill do a $150 refund if its not new. Ill take your word on it and you can check the cd to see. If it is new though, you have to keep it...Your call..

[BrYaN55]

Also,
Can someone here please blow up the photo of the back of my game in my ad..I do not see a hole and I am sure I would have noticed that. Thanks in advance

The hole would be hard to see from this distance but you can see it. I have put the original picture of your auction with my picture. You can see the hole.

http://www.quebecgamers.com/ccjvq/pds/hole3.jpg

But anyway, the hole is not a big deal for me if the game is really sealed. I can live with it.

[BrYaN55]

Brian,
The people on this forum are trying to help you but the information is false. I am also concerned about that hole in the back. Blow up my photo, I am 99.9% sure there was no hole at all. I dont know how I could have missed that. Do you want to open the game and check the cd? Ill do a $150 refund if its not new. Ill take your word on it and you can check the cd to see. If it is new though, you have to keep it...Your call..

I don't want to open it. I already have a complete and Mint Panzer Dragoon Saga game with all the inserts and everything, it's also in gem (well OK, very Mint :P) shape no joke! And it's the black sleeve version. The only thing I want next to that, is a factory sealed copy.

If you want, we can take a week and hope someone with expertise post something. I have no friends here or anything, so it's not like they will want to defend me at all. In fact, I want to believe the game is legit more than anything, but with good proof.

http://www.quebecgamers.com/ccjvq/pds/pds2.jpg

[howardnyc]

I honestly do not see the hole in my photo, maybe other people do but I sure dont. Had I seen it, I would have put it in the ad. I have a 4.8 of 5.0 for item description on Ebay so should get the benefit of the doubt that I know how to desribe a game. Just let me know what you want to do. I got this game from a gaming store closing down and have not had a single issue from over 300 games I got from there. Read my ebay feeback, I have sold dozens of games over $150 without issue. I say the game in new.

[howardnyc]

Well lets do this..Remove the paypal dispute and ill give you a week to decide if you want to keep or return the game. I am stating here on this public forum that I will refund you if you want to return it and let me know here within 7 days. Its not cool to tie up my money while you decide. If you decide to return it then just mail it back to me with tracking and ill refund you..Is that fair to you?

[BrYaN55]

Well lets do this..Remove the paypal dispute and ill give you a week to decide if you want to keep or return the game. I am stating here on this public forum that I will refund you if you want to return it and let me know here within 7 days. Its not cool to tie up my money while you decide. If you decide to return it then just mail it back to me with tracking and ill refund you..Is that fair to you?


If I close the dispute I can't open another one. I don't want to freeze your account or anything, it works like that...

[howardnyc]

You wont have to open a dispute again, I will refund you.

[Bojay1997]

I don't want to open it. I already have a complete and Mint Panzer Dragoon Saga game with all the inserts and everything, it's also in gem (well OK, very Mint :P) shape no joke! And it's the black sleeve version. The only thing I want next to that, is a factory sealed copy.

If you want, we can take a week and hope someone with expertise post something. I have no friends here or anything, so it's not like they will want to defend me at all. In fact, I want to believe the game is legit more than anything, but with good proof.

http://www.quebecgamers.com/ccjvq/pds/pds2.jpg

Based on my own copy which I bought brand new on the release day, I believe this is not legit. In fact, my speculation is that this is really an EB reseal which they did very, very commonly at the time. EB started gutting games in the mid-90s and with the later Saturn stuff, they only got 1-2 copies per store, so one was gutted and they would seal it once it was sold. That's probably why there is dirt in the grooves which absolutely you would never seen on a factory sealed game. That's also why the seams are jagged and the hole on the back is there. I have probably 5-6 EB reseals in my collection which I knew were reseals when I bought them from EB at the time and two of them have holes in the back or front. Sorry, but it looks like you have a reseal here.

[quakesin]

http://www.quebecgamers.com/ccjvq/pds/panzer-dragoon-saga-sealed5.jpg
http://www.quebecgamers.com/ccjvq/pds/panzer-dragoon-saga-sealed6.jpg





Take a look at this factory Sealed saturn game...

http://72.209.151.253:81/images/saturn1.jpg
Notice how the seam does not go all the way around? It only has a seam at the top and bottom.
http://72.209.151.253:81/images/saturn2.jpg
And the seam on the back that is missing from your game.

Here is another one:
http://72.209.151.253:81/images/saturn3.jpg
I'm starting to see a pattern here...again there is only a seam on the top and bottom of the case.
http://72.209.151.253:81/images/saturn4.jpg
And the seam on the back once again.

So I would say that your game is not factory sealed.