Classic Sega IPs

[ShinobiMan]

"An Intellectual Property. Basically what it means is that it is a new series, one that is new and without sequels."

Sega had a lot of them. Let's talk about what they should do in order to rekindle the love.

Sonic The Hedgehog - Go back to it's roots. Make it fun and exhilarating, not clunky and boring.

Phantasy Star - Ditch the online aspect. It was great but this series needs to become an actual RPG again.

Shadow Dancer - Joe Musashi and his dog needs to make a comeback. This was a great gameplay mechanic that would be well suited for modern gaming.

Chakan - Just make a sequel already. I know one was in development, but seriously, this was a once great character. His dark edge would go over well today.

Toejam & Earl - In my opinion, two of Sega's most iconic characters, the Xbox sequel was subpar. Put this duo on the DS with great multiplayer similar to the first game.

Space Harrier - Fast paced fantasy action. It doesn't exist these days, and a new entry into this series done right would be refreshing in an otherwise stale age of gaming.

Kid Chameleon - A clever idea that never received the sequel treatment. The possibilities seem endless, what with the costume and ability morphing. I could envision a fun platformer ala' Banjo Kazooie.

Altered Beast - Come on Sega! You tried to revive this one but failed miserably. It's so inventive and edgy. I say remake it for the 360 marketplace with extra levels and characters.

Nights - A beautiful game that to me was everything Sega was about. We need a real sequel, not a mediocre game destined to become a bargain bin flunky.

Streets Of Rage - One of the best properties the company had going for them... the beat 'em up may be out of style, but this series needs a comeback.

Clockwork Knight - To me, this was right up there in terms of imagination with Nights. A sequel or port should find it's way to the DS.

Golden Axe - Give it a level up system but keep the same gameplay mechanics. If Castle Crashers can do it, certainly the original medieval brawler can.

Alex Kidd - The days of the cartoon platformer are pretty much over, but Alex Kidd had a lot of personality and originality. I say make a new game with anime cut scenes and the kids will love it.

There's been a lot of injustice in the world of Sega lately. I'm interested in anything you guys would like to add to this list or comment on. What are some of your favorites? Whatever happened to "Now there are no limits."?

[otoko]

Phantasy Star - Ditch the online aspect. It was great but this series needs to become an actual RPG again.

No arguments there. Still I like the online feature... but making it a main one isn't the best idea. At least in my opinion.

[crom]

actually going down that list sega failed horribly on remaking some of them recently (ie. golden axe & nights)

I say let them sell some of those IP's so that a decent company can make them fun, because obviously sega doesnt know what the hell they are doing anymore...

sell phantasy star to activision and streets of rage to rockstar... everyone wins, sega gets there money (as it seems thats all they care about trying to make games from hulk and ironman) and good game companies make the good games...

[thom_m]

Now that you mentioned it, I really hope they do NOT decide to revive my beloved Kid Chameleon. From all I heard about today's Sega (never really have much contact with their post-genesis games), it would be said to see them ruining that one. I don't think there's that much room for imrpovement, anyway, but I'm a fanboy, so it doesn't count.

[FantasiaWHT]

A real Phantasy Star... no online, nothing, just a straight RPG. The single player mode in Universe was at least a nice attempt, but very obviously a secondary concern. Give me a turn-based, challenging-as-a-hell RPG with androids, WITHOUT hordes of newmans (how do you explain a whole race of those, anyway?) and all the great bizarre magic names. Please. And selling it to Activision would be a horrible idea... How about Square-Enix, who could have Tri-Ace (valkyrie profile people) or Jupiter (World Ends with You) make it?

[GM80]

I love me some ToeJam & Earl, but the problem seems to be that the IP actually belongs to the creators at ToeJam & Earl Productions, Inc. (http://tjande.com/) despite having been exclusively published by Sega over the years ... or something like that.

Although the original and the sequel have hit the Wii's Virtual Console, they're not on XBLA, nor is the latest game (which I enjoyed far more than the second) backwards compatible with the 360.

I'd like to see something, that's for sure, but I also understand that the whole "funk duo" motif doesn't necessarily translate well out of the '90s.

[kupomogli]

And selling it to Activision would be a horrible idea... How about Square-Enix, who could have Tri-Ace (valkyrie profile people) or Jupiter (World Ends with You) make it?

Since Square Enix is known for their RPG titles then that''s what most people would end up saying. I don't think it'd be such a bad idea, but Square-Enix has owned the Ogre Battle series for some time now and we haven't seen another Ogre Battle title. Just like Ogre Battle, I doubt they'd do anything with the Phantasy Star series even if they owned it. If only Square-Enix would ask Yasumi Matsuno to be the executive producer and writer of another Tactics Ogre title, the world would be a better place(I'd rather see another Ogre Battle than a Phantasy Star, but it'll never happen.)

Personally, I'd end up saying Media Vision would be the perfect company to sell the series to. This developer is mainly known for the Wild ARMs series as they really haven't created much else. Every game in the Wild ARMs series expands on the previous one by adding unique elements of gameplay, so with each different title they do try new things(so they're all unique to one another which I think makes every other title just as good as the next.) I didn't like WA Alter Code F as it felt like a watered down version of both the original and WA3 mixed together but really wasn't a bad game. WA4 and 5 stayed as regular RPG titles but used more strategy/tactical type batles, and then Wild ARMs XF is completely strategy based with the most indepth customization in any game of that type in my opinion(one of my favorite PSP games.)

I'd advise against giving the Phantasy Star IP to Capcom. This is only because I'm a huge fan of the Breath of Fire series and Capcom still hasn't made another one. I'd rather see another Breath of Fire game than a Phantasy Star game. The Breath of Fire series has yet to have a bad game, though the original title is definitely the worst of them.

Then finally. I'd advise against giving the series to Nippon Ichi Software. I'd rather the series go to any company than this one. Every game that NIS has developed other than "Prinny: Can I Really Be the Hero" has been crap. Rhapsody, La Pucelle, Disgaea, etc. It's as this company has no idea what makes a good game and they release the same rehashed battle system repeatedly with new alterations(such as Phantom Brave with it's circular system.) Same thing with games from Idea Factory or Gust, games that happen to play just like every other game they create and really not that fun.

[kedawa]

A new Last Bronx or Mystic Defender would make me very happy.

[xDerekRx]

When I think of Sonic IPs I think alot about Segas Arcade/Saturn ports.

Virtua Fighters, Sega Rally, House of the Dead, Touring Car, Last Bronx and so on.

Of course Sonic is Sega!

Panzer Dragoon and Shenmue are two fantastic series.

Nights was also dead on. Its a game that makes you feel like a kid. I have stayed away from the sequal.

[ProgrammingAce]

What on earth makes you think sega has the talent or cash to make good games these days?

[ShinobiMan]

What on earth makes you think sega has the talent or cash to make good games these days?

I don't. This thread is more akin to fantasy baseball.

Just wanted to add another one:

Astal. I'm pretty sure Sega made this one for the Saturn. Fantastic game that I always fit deserved a sequel.

[eday_2010]

The days of the cartoon platformer are pretty much over,

Have you not picked up a DS lately, or paid attention to the games on that system? "Cartoon" platformers are thriving.


Whatever happened to "Now there are no limits."?

That slogan died with the 80's. And Sega as we knew it back then is also dead. Now it's a run-of-the-mill, subpar publishers.

[optic_85]

Sonic The Hedgehog - Model it after Sonic Adventure 1 game play wise. Put a lot of effort into art direction, and level design. Make the stages fast, and fun. Then to improve upon Sonic Adventure, tighten up the free-roaming aspect, make it more fun, bigger, and easier to navigate. Invest some real time into a solid story, and some decent voice actors.


Phantasy Star - I wouldn't necessarily ditch the online aspect, maybe make a straight forward RPG with online missions, and modes available after you've completed the game.


Toejam & Earl - A hard title to relaunch, I guess make something similar to the XBOX version with better writing, and less monotony.

Kid Chameleon - I would love to see this as a platform game for the 360. Maybe give it an animated/cel shaded style. Go really over the top with the power-ups

Nights - The key to a Nights sequel is creative level design, improved graphics, and a functional(and fun) multiplayer mode.

Streets Of Rage - I agree, give it to Rockstar.

Clockwork Knight - This would make a great XBOX Live game.

Golden Axe - Basically copy Guardian Heroes

Jet Grind Radio - Just make another game like the DC version. You could probably have fun with the spray controls if you put it on Wii.

[SegaAges]

There are a bunch of good ones.

Many arcade games rocking hardcore and some not so arcadey

House of the Dead
Panzer Dragoon
Virtua Tennis
SHENMUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wow, Sorry I did not quote it, but you know who you are. It was said best by you, but "Sonic is Sega" is a brilliant line. So good to where I am pretty confident I am putting it in my sig.

[Draven]

I'd be happy to see Chakan again. Of course Streets of Rage, Clockwork, and Nights are some of my favorites, but I've yet to see a game as "cool" as Chakan. The gameplay was deep, the controls were excellent, and the character and level designs were spectacular. Man, I miss that game...

[j_factor]

The problem is, most of these games are of genres that are long out of favor. Like Streets of Rage -- beat 'em ups haven't been popular for a long time, and most attempts at the genre for the past 10 years have either been less than good (Final Fight Streetwise), or decent but extremely poor-selling (Dynamite Cop). Platformers have pretty much fallen by the wayside as well, except for a few big names. In general, arcade-style games these days don't seem to be able to get any sort of positive reception in the West. People expect every game to be at least 15 hours long and it needs to have some sort of tacked-on adventure or RPG elements, or else it's deemed unworthy. Not an ideal climate for revivals of relatively short, simple action games (regardless of how great they are).

Plus, Sega no longer really has any American development, so something like Kid Chameleon or Eternal Champions is pretty much out of the question.

As for a new Phantasy Star, I don't think there's a conceivably good plot justification for another game set in Algo, after the events of 1, 2, and 4. Although I guess there's nothing stopping them from making a side-game with more traditional, turn-based gameplay. And I'd say that's one game that Sega shouldn't farm out -- 7th Dragon looks great and is evident of their capability.

[ShinobiMan]

I always thought Bug! was a series on the Saturn that had a lot of potential. The first one was lots of fun, although extremely challenging at times.

Ah, I remember the Saturn's launch like it was yesterday. Bug!, Clockwork Knight, Panzer Dragoon and of course Virtua Fighter.

[tom]

I want to see some late 70s/early 80s Sega stuff on PS3, like in the format of Namco Museum series.

[Nebagram]

Shenmue 3, simple as.

In (I was about to say 'slightly more realistic' then realised my mistake) we also have...

Sonic- formula for success is simple- go down the SSF2THD road. Polish up the original games, but add in extras. No one minds that levels take ~90 seconds to clear. That's the whole point of a Sonic game.

The idea of a Streets of Rage GTA-style game appeals to me greatly. Like Crackdown only more grungy and with awesome characters.

For 'Alex Kidd' I'm thinking along the lines of 'Kameo', even though the game wasn't particularly good it had definite potential.

I'm sure I'm missing a few. Hell, I'm sure we're all missing a few franchises from here. Trouble is, so are Sega...

[Sudo]

What on earth makes you think sega has the talent or cash to make good games these days?

Valkyria Chronicles and the Yakuza games are fantastic.

[Rob2600]

Other classic Sega IPs:

18 Wheeler
After Burner
Beach Spikers
Burning Rangers
Chu Chu Rocket
Fantasy Zone
Hang On
Out Run
Soccer Slam
Space Channel 5
Thunder Blade
Wrestle War
Zombie Revenge

Lots of potential there. Give Sonic a rest for now.

[Jorpho]

The idea of a Streets of Rage GTA-style game appeals to me greatly. Like Crackdown only more grungy and with awesome characters.Final Fight Streetwise. 'Nuff said.

[LiquidPolicenaut]

I gotta go against some opinions here and say i would NOT want my beloved Streets of Rage to go to Rockstar. While I love GTA, I would not want SoR to be like that. Stay the old classic style but with new twists. If anything, just release it on PSN/XBLA. The SoR Remakes (from Bombergames) feel like pure sequels to me anyway...

As for other titles like Sonic (never did like ny of the 3D versions), PS, Toejam & Earl, I agree on all fronts----go back to their roots and revive these once great series....*sigh* old Sega...I miss you guys

[Gentlegamer]

Could it be that Sega has "lost it's way" in the subject matter of its games compared to the past? What I mean is, Sega used to be the "less kiddie, more mature" game company, at least in comparison to Nintendo during the era when it was competing.

For example, I don't think Sonic the Hedgehog is an IP that can really compete on that type of level. Sonic was "cooler" than Mario, but I think his "cool" is long gone along with the 90s that gave birth to him. What's left is Sonic trying to compete on core game mechanics that were never really that strong to begin with (or at least not easily transferable to a 3D medium), in my opinion. Sega keeps trying to give the Sonic IP its "edge" back (Shadow the Hedgehog, Sonic Unleashed), but its all a dismal failure.

The "mature angle" is now the province of a myriad of other publishers/developers and Sega is left in a twilight zone.

Mass Effect feels like the type of game Sega could have made in an alternate universe. Perhaps it just reminds me of Phantasy Star somewhat.

[Gentlegamer]

The problem is, most of these games are of genres that are long out of favor. Like Streets of Rage -- beat 'em ups haven't been popular for a long time, and most attempts at the genre for the past 10 years have either been less than good (Final Fight Streetwise), or decent but extremely poor-selling (Dynamite Cop). Platformers have pretty much fallen by the wayside as well, except for a few big names. In general, arcade-style games these days don't seem to be able to get any sort of positive reception in the West. People expect every game to be at least 15 hours long and it needs to have some sort of tacked-on adventure or RPG elements, or else it's deemed unworthy. Not an ideal climate for revivals of relatively short, simple action games (regardless of how great they are).I agree, this comment dovetails with what I was trying to express, too.

[NayusDante]

You know, Fantasy Zone could be revived as the shooter equivalent of Katamari Damacy. Imagine, a Galactic Overlord speaking to Opa-Opa, strange and catchy music, and a full-blown physics engine.

[Cryomancer]

I don't understand the dislike for Toejam and Earl III. It basically is the original game in 3D with a couple of elements lifted from the second game. It's exactly what it should be. It's a great game. Had it have come out for Dreamcast as originally planned, it would have had three-player online co-op too. Sounds like a good idea for a TJ&E IV to me.

[ShinobiMan]

I don't understand the dislike for Toejam and Earl III. It basically is the original game in 3D with a couple of elements lifted from the second game. It's exactly what it should be. It's a great game. Had it have come out for Dreamcast as originally planned, it would have had three-player online co-op too. Sounds like a good idea for a TJ&E IV to me.

If it had come out on the Dreamcast I would have loved it. As it stands, I liked it, but it definitely felt like a Dreamcast leftover. One things that always bugged me though was the Ghetto-speak. Toe Jam & Earl aren't gangsters, their supposed to be FUNKY!

[Cryomancer]

They still are, they're using the power of funk / music / vinyl to convert people and stuff...they dress a bit more "urban" or whatever but I don't know how else you would go about updating their look. They don't even look THAT different, they just are wearing pants now.

I don't really see how it being on Dreamcast instead of Xbox would completely change your opinon of the game either. Dunno, I think the game gets a lot of complaints that I don't see as very valid. TJ&E was one of my favorite games as a kid and TJ&E III is one of my favorite xbox games. It feels more like TJ&E than the second game at least.

[ShinobiMan]

They still are, they're using the power of funk / music / vinyl to convert people and stuff...they dress a bit more "urban" or whatever but I don't know how else you would go about updating their look. They don't even look THAT different, they just are wearing pants now.

I don't really see how it being on Dreamcast instead of Xbox would completely change your opinon of the game either. Dunno, I think the game gets a lot of complaints that I don't see as very valid. TJ&E was one of my favorite games as a kid and TJ&E III is one of my favorite xbox games. It feels more like TJ&E than the second game at least.

Maybe I need to give the game another chance. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed playing it the first time around, but even then I felt something was missing... that magic I felt with the first two games. Had it been on a Sega console, I feel as though I would have enjoyed it more... odd as that may sound.

[j_factor]

I liked TJ&E3, but I didn't like how it used a hub world, and I didn't like some of the side levels with the chickens and whatnot. And the gospel choir was annoying rather than funny.

[GM80]

As a huge fan of the original TJ&E, I liked the mechanics of the third one just fine (and yes, I was following its planned release on the Dreamcast for a loooong time). I thought it was an excellent translation of the idea to 3D, about as well as anyone could have hoped.

As someone mentioned above, though, the move from "funk" to "urban," subtle as it may be, just didn't mesh with me. I played the whole thing, but the choir and the type of vocals recorded for the characters, along with "Latisha" (really?) and her cornrows, just felt out of place. Maybe that's what nearly 20 years lost on Planet Earth does to you, I don't know.

[Frogacuda]

Is Latisha any worse than Lewanda? Toejam and Earl was always full of references to rap and hip hop. Their ship was called the Rapmaster Rocket, there were record scratches in the music, beatboxing... At the time, rap artists were still sampling P-Funk so that made sense.

One things that always bugged me though was the Ghetto-speak. Toe Jam & Earl aren't gangsters, their supposed to be FUNKY!Not all people from the ghetto are in gangs. And I hate to be the one to break it to you, but funk music came from the same streets as hip-hop.

I think it's just the same issue you have when any silent character speaks for the first time. I always imagined Mario as Brooklyn Italian. When he opened his mouth in Mario 64 and sounded like European Mickey Mouse, I was pissed off. So I think a lot of people imagined TJ&E talking differently and the third game shattered that.
You know, Fantasy Zone could be revived as the shooter equivalent of Katamari Damacy. Imagine, a Galactic Overlord speaking to Opa-Opa, strange and catchy music, and a full-blown physics engine.
Fantasy Zone was revived exactly how it should have been. The new one they did last year is fantastic, better than any of the sequels from back in the day, and up there with the original. They really did a far better job than I could have imagined in creating something that was original (despite being what could loosely be termed a remake) but perfectly captured the spirit of the first game.

[ShinobiMan]

Not all people from the ghetto are in gangs. And I hate to be the one to break it to you, but funk music came from the same streets as hip-hop.

And without the Blues you wouldn't have Rock & Roll. Lets say Toejam & Earl were grunge rockers in the first two games, but for the 3rd game they made them metal heads. Just because they came from the same genre doesn't mean I have to like it.

And as for stereotyping people from the ghetto... I wasn't. Toejam and Earl dress like hoodlums in the 3rd game... they are made to resemble gangster rap artists, especially the kind that was being portrayed on MTV at the time.

[Frogacuda]

And without the Blues you wouldn't have Rock & Roll. Lets say Toejam & Earl were grunge rockers in the first two games, but for the 3rd game they made them metal heads. Just because they came from the same genre doesn't mean I have to like it.
I wasn't talking about the music, I was talking about the way they speak. In the old games, they were always like "Yo, homey, we be jammin'" and now you're sad because they updated their slang from the early 90s and you think it's not "funk" slang anymore? TJ&E never talked 70's jive or anything, you're just confused.

And as for stereotyping people from the ghetto... I wasn't. Toejam and Earl dress like hoodlums in the 3rd game... they are made to resemble gangster rap artists, especially the kind that was being portrayed on MTV at the time.
No, they're made to resemble the way young black people dress. Not all young black people who dress that way are, in fact, gangster rappers or hoodlums.

[ShinobiMan]

I wasn't talking about the music, I was talking about the way they speak. In the old games, they were always like "Yo, homey, we be jammin'" and now you're sad because they updated their slang from the early 90s and you think it's not "funk" slang anymore? TJ&E never talked 70's jive or anything, you're just confused.

No, they're made to resemble the way young black people dress. Not all young black people who dress that way are, in fact, gangster rappers or hoodlums.

I know that. I also know that not all young black people dress like gangsters.

Listen there was no malice intended in my comments. I'd appreciate it if we both drop the defensive. We're here to talk about the games we love, not start disputes!

You sound like you enjoyed the 3rd game. If they made a 4th one, what would you like to see changed... or remain the same?

[Frogacuda]

I know that. I also know that not all young black people dress like gangsters.

Listen there was no malice intended in my comments. I'd appreciate it if we both drop the defensive. We're here to talk about the games we love, not start disputes!
I'm not really trying to be defensive or politically correct or something, I just think you're making some broad assumptions about the changes that were made, some of which I think reflect the vision the creators always had, and some of which were just an effort to move it from the 90s to the 2000s and not to make it more urban/hip/ganster/whatever.


You sound like you enjoyed the 3rd game. If they made a 4th one, what would you like to see changed... or remain the same?
The platform. The main problem with 3 was that, like 1, it was a simple, replayable game, fun in small doses or with a friend. So put it on DS or PSP and it'd go over a lot better than on a console, where people expect more depth and complexity that don't necessarily fit with what that game is all about.

TJ&E was actually inspired by Rogue, and it has a lot of that same kind of appeal. Rogelikes are great on handhelds, but they don't do well on consoles anymore. I think TJ&E is the same.