who owns any unreleased undumped games

[hellfire]

I am looking for people who own !!"UNDUMPED"!! unreleased games or prototypes, I am willing to either buy them or help pay to leak them

[Superman]

I think we a had a discussion about this not too long ago.

Well, let the (same) discussion begin...

[ProgrammingAce]

Can we just lock this now?

[hellfire]

why lock it, I am seriously interested in buying an unreleased game and sharing it with the world, is their a problem with that?

[BeaglePuss]

I've got three (I had four, but bit rot got the best of one of them) . All are "Dumped" as far as saving the roms to my computer is concerned. No copies (that I know of) exist outside of the ones in my possession though. I'm as sure as I can be that the copies I have are the only ones that are still around.

Unreleased games don't come cheap though, and I'm not necessarily looking to sell. What kind of money are you looking to spend? I've spent between $500-$1500 for each of the titles I currently own, and it will take more than that to pry them from my hands.

[FxMercenary]

I've got three (I had four, but bit rot got the best of one of them) . All are "Dumped" as far as saving the roms to my computer is concerned. No copies (that I know of) exist outside of the ones in my possession though. I'm as sure as I can be that the copies I have are the only ones that are still around.

Unreleased games don't come cheap though, and I'm not necessarily looking to sell. What kind of money are you looking to spend? I've spent between $500-$1500 for each of the titles I currently own, and it will take more than that to pry them from my hands.

Your PC has just been breached!

[BeaglePuss]

Your PC has just been breached!
Crap!!! Now I lost three unreleased games, and hours of porno. What am I gonna do?!?!?

[skaar]

Because I always find it amusing:

http://finno.org/secret.gif

[Sabz5150]

Your PC has just been breached!

Hax0rs? In my butter?

Communism is closer than you think.

[BeaglePuss]

Hax0rs? In my butter?

Communism is closer than you think.
From my cold dead hands!

[Sniderman]

why lock it, I am seriously interested in buying an unreleased game and sharing it with the world, is their a problem with that?

Go to Atari Age (www.atariage.com) and post the exact same query. Go ahead. I dare ya.

[hellfire]

ok does anybody have any betas or prototypes they are willing to leak for money, Im not even going to bother with unreleased games because everybody will treat me like a lowlife criminal if I say anything more about them

[Buyatari]

What systems are you looking for?

[TheDomesticInstitution]

ok does anybody have any betas or prototypes they are willing to leak for money, Im not even going to bother with unreleased games because everybody will treat me like a lowlife criminal if I say anything more about them

I really don't think it's that people are ridiculing you because you want to dump any unreleased games to the market.

I think everyone has the impression that your query was asked just so you could stir up some shit, on a topic you know is touchy. I don't think anyone thinks you have the kind of money it takes to actually do this.

If you really can afford hundreds to thousands of dollars a game to dump them on the internet, then pony up. Amid the insults there are a few people here who have said that if you have the money, they'll sell them.

So the question is, "Do you have the money?" People who usually get pissed about people hoarding protos, betas, and unreleased games and not sharing them, usually don't have the money. If they had the money, they'd have the protos. Capiche?

Can you guess the word of the day?

[Tupin]

I really don't think it's that people are ridiculing you because you want to dump any unreleased games to the market.

I think everyone has the impression that your query was asked just so you could stir up some shit, on a topic you know is touchy. I don't think anyone thinks you have the kind of money it takes to actually do this.

If you really can afford hundreds to thousands of dollars a game to dump them on the internet, then pony up. Amid the insults there are a few people here who have said that if you have the money, they'll sell them.

So the question is, "Do you have the money?" People who usually get pissed about people hoarding protos, betas, and unreleased games and not sharing them, usually don't have the money. If they had the money, they'd have the protos. Capiche?

Can you guess the word of the day?
Ooh! Ooh! I know it!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoYWdHe4tQ4

[ProgrammingAce]

I have hundreds of protos from released games... feel like playing through all of them to see which ones are worth releasing? How about spending the thousands of dollars in hosting costs to put them up somewhere? Like i've said a dozen times before, it's just not worth the time and space to release modern betas..

Tell ya what... if you're really interested, i can give you a list of titles. I'll sell you whichever ones you want for $20 each. Odds are, you'll get lucky with some and get some cool betas, but you'll loose out on others because they'll turn out to be identical to retail.

Let me know if you're interested. You can pick the titles.

[hellfire]

I have hundreds of protos from released games... feel like playing through all of them to see which ones are worth releasing? How about spending the thousands of dollars in hosting costs to put them up somewhere? Like i've said a dozen times before, it's just not worth the time and space to release modern betas..

Tell ya what... if you're really interested, i can give you a list of titles. I'll sell you whichever ones you want for $20 each. Odds are, you'll get lucky with some and get some cool betas, but you'll loose out on others because they'll turn out to be identical to retail.

Let me know if you're interested. You can pick the titles.

I am very interested in buying some of them off of you, please send me a list of the ones you have

[BeaglePuss]

ok does anybody have any betas or prototypes they are willing to leak for money, Im not even going to bother with unreleased games because everybody will treat me like a lowlife criminal if I say anything more about them
Lowlife criminal?

If you're actually serious about releasing protos, then you're more than welcome to pony up. It's not going to be cheap though.

I have a number of protos that are released, but are different than the retail version. I would be willing to dump those off too, but it's going to take more than 20 bucks.

[BeaglePuss]

So, did you actually plan on purchasing a unreleased undumped game, or did you just post for the hell of it?

[badinsults]

I don't think you have to worry too much about leaking unreleased protos. I have released many on my site, and the only comments I have ever received were from some former programmers who thanked me for providing binaries of these lost games that they worked on.

[Vectorman0]

I have a Vectorman 2 prototype for Sega Genesis that I would sell for $40 shipped. I didn't notice anything different from the main game. I tried to have a friend dump it, but he wasn't able to.

[GrandAmChandler]

I have a prototype of what could be a major dump, in my colon. $15 + shipping takes it. Cash Only. No refunds.

[SpasticFuctard]

I have a prototype of what could be a major dump, in my colon. $15 + shipping takes it. Cash Only. No refunds.

BM Sent!

[ProgrammingAce]

I have a prototype of what could be a major dump, in my colon. $15 + shipping takes it. Cash Only. No refunds.

BM Sent!


Epic!

[hellfire]

I have a Vectorman 2 prototype for Sega Genesis that I would sell for $40 shipped. I didn't notice anything different from the main game. I tried to have a friend dump it, but he wasn't able to.

Omg your vectorman! I thought you were just a fictional icon for sega that appeared in two games! but I dident know you were accualy alive!! Its so cool that the accual vectorman has a vectorman prototype, vectorman can I have your autograph? I

[BeaglePuss]

Omg your vectorman! I thought you were just a fictional icon for sega that appeared in two games! but I dident know you were accualy alive!! Its so cool that the accual vectorman has a vectorman prototype, vectorman can I have your autograph? I
So, are you going to actually buy any prototypes or what?

[hellfire]

So, are you going to actually buy any prototypes or what?

as a matter of fact programmingace is making a list of the ones he has so I can purchase some of them

[Vectorman0]

That sounds good, I wish you luck in your search.

[mrmark0673]

Hope that works out for you, and thanks for passing on that Vectorman 2 proto. If you ever get serious about proto collecting and spending serious cash on unreleased games instead of just gauging interest, you can always send me a PM.

To Vectorman: Payment sent, thanks again!

[hellfire]

Hope that works out for you, and thanks for passing on that Vectorman 2 proto. If you ever get serious about proto collecting and spending serious cash on unreleased games instead of just gauging interest, you can always send me a PM.

To Vectorman: Payment sent, thanks again!

Think what you want of me, Im not old enough to get a real job so what do you expect, before I buy anything Im going to find the best deals. Why complain to me? And why shouldent I browse before I buy? Am I supposed to send somebody money and hope I get a proto?. Im not going to bug people to dump prototypes, its their property not mine, all Im trying to do is buy a couple of them.

[Buyatari]

you can have this one for $1250.oo

Shadowhawk for SNES comes with a letter from an Image Comics employee

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t245/WastingOrpheus/MVC-002S-14.jpg

[PACHUKA]

you can have this one for $1250.oo

Shadowhawk for SNES comes with a letter from an Image Comics employee

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t245/WastingOrpheus/MVC-002S-14.jpg

I wanted that game sooo bad as a kid, shadowhawk was my favorite comic. But $1200? lol. Let me know if you'd dump for a reasonable rate. I have no interest in owning it. In the meantime, could we get some screengrabs or footage?

[BeaglePuss]

I wanted that game sooo bad as a kid, shadowhawk was my favorite comic. But $1200? lol. Let me know if you'd dump for a reasonable rate. I have no interest in owning it. In the meantime, could we get some screengrabs or footage?
Some screen shots from U64 (link):
http://www.unseen64.net/2008/04/14/shadowhawk-snes-unreleased/

[PACHUKA]

Some screen shots from U64 (link):
http://www.unseen64.net/2008/04/14/shadowhawk-snes-unreleased/

yeah, i got those. thanks though!

http://www.x-cult.org/newegg/games/315/Shadowhawk/994/Screenshots/

[Buyatari]

I wanted that game sooo bad as a kid, shadowhawk was my favorite comic. But $1200? lol. Let me know if you'd dump for a reasonable rate. I have no interest in owning it. In the meantime, could we get some screengrabs or footage?

I'd rather just sell the thing and let whoever buys it dump it or not. I posted some screen shots years ago. Let me see if I can find them.

[MatthewCallis]

I'd rather just sell the thing and let whoever buys it dump it or not. I posted some screen shots years ago. Let me see if I can find them.

You can see them here:
http://www.unseen64.net/2008/04/14/shadowhawk-snes-unreleased/

$1250.00USD isn't too bad since it has the letter... might take you up on that.

[Buyatari]

You can see them here:
http://www.unseen64.net/2008/04/14/shadowhawk-snes-unreleased/

$1250.00USD isn't too bad since it has the letter... might take you up on that.

I had a buyer once with part trade and part cash but after we made a deal he backed out and tried to deal for a lower price.

[Tupin]

Hey ProgrammingAce, send me a list of the protos you are selling, I'm interested.

Just curious about what you have.

[TheRedEye]

You can see them here:
http://www.unseen64.net/2008/04/14/shadowhawk-snes-unreleased/

$1250.00USD isn't too bad since it has the letter... might take you up on that.

No, those aren't the shots Adam took. If I remember right he had a hard time killing a rat or something and just took a couple camera shots of the very beginning of the game.

[PACHUKA]

No, those aren't the shots Adam took. If I remember right he had a hard time killing a rat or something and just took a couple camera shots of the very beginning of the game.

Woah, stroke of genius! Shoot me a dump of it and I'll hack up some game genie codes for it, and email them! =D

[Diosoth]

I don't get the mentality of buying up some rare, unreleased game and then making it your sole goal to ensure the ROM isn't dumped. You can bitch about "ruining the value" but that's complete shit and everyone knows it. Emulation hasn't done a damn thing to curb the value of much anything. Not that most of these people ever plan to sell them anyway. You can claim you want to hold onto them but eventually those old EPROM chips will lose their data and you'll have a cartridge with nothing on it.

Seems if I was going to buy some prototype of an unreleased game and make sure it's never dumped, I'd put vids on Youtube of the carts being destroyed. If you're going to be a dick about ROM dumping then go all out.

I'd love to find some proto of an unreleased game. Say... Lobo for SNES. I'd track down a ROM dumper and send it to them so fast the anti-ROM collectors would put a contract out on me.

[BeaglePuss]

I don't get the mentality of buying up some rare, unreleased game and then making it your sole goal to ensure the ROM isn't dumped. You can bitch about "ruining the value" but that's complete shit and everyone knows it. Emulation hasn't done a damn thing to curb the value of much anything. Not that most of these people ever plan to sell them anyway. You can claim you want to hold onto them but eventually those old EPROM chips will lose their data and you'll have a cartridge with nothing on it.

Seems if I was going to buy some prototype of an unreleased game and make sure it's never dumped, I'd put vids on Youtube of the carts being destroyed. If you're going to be a dick about ROM dumping then go all out.

I'd love to find some proto of an unreleased game. Say... Lobo for SNES. I'd track down a ROM dumper and send it to them so fast the anti-ROM collectors would put a contract out on me.
I've dumped every prototype I own, released or otherwise. I just don't give out the ROM because it will completely devalue the prototype/my investment. I'm in the process of reproducing one of my unreleased prototypes, and it will be available in the next two weeks (Link: http://www.nintendoage.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=5&threadid=19042). This way I get to release the game to the public, and protect my investment. It's win-win. The ROM is preserved, I get to keep a one of a kind prototype, and I don't have to give handouts to people like you who are not willing to take the risk of the initial investment. I plan to do this with all of my prototypes, it just takes some time (and lots of money). I have two more releases that I plan putting out within the year.

Unreleased prototypes do lose value due to emulation. There are countless examples of this happening in the past (Hit the Ice, Crossfire, Squashed, Bashi Bazooka, ect.). Once the game is dumped the proto goes from being worth thousands, to being worth hundreds. It's easy for you to piss and moan when you don't have any prototypes. If you're interested in buying a proto, thus putting your money where your mouth is, send me a PM and I can make it happen. I would assume your hostility is a result of jealousy, but I could be wrong.

[hellfire]

You can see them here:
http://www.unseen64.net/2008/04/14/shadowhawk-snes-unreleased/

$1250.00USD isn't too bad since it has the letter... might take you up on that.

I used to be a staff member at unseen 64, well I still am But I never find anything.

[hellfire]

you can have this one for $1250.oo

Shadowhawk for SNES comes with a letter from an Image Comics employee

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t245/WastingOrpheus/MVC-002S-14.jpg

How much would I have to pay for you to leak some screenshots/video?

[Buyatari]

I don't get the mentality of buying up some rare, unreleased game and then making it your sole goal to ensure the ROM isn't dumped. You can bitch about "ruining the value" but that's complete shit and everyone knows it. Emulation hasn't done a damn thing to curb the value of much anything. Not that most of these people ever plan to sell them anyway. You can claim you want to hold onto them but eventually those old EPROM chips will lose their data and you'll have a cartridge with nothing on it.

Seems if I was going to buy some prototype of an unreleased game and make sure it's never dumped, I'd put vids on Youtube of the carts being destroyed. If you're going to be a dick about ROM dumping then go all out.

I'd love to find some proto of an unreleased game. Say... Lobo for SNES. I'd track down a ROM dumper and send it to them so fast the anti-ROM collectors would put a contract out on me.

You know what bud. Think whatever you want. I really don't care. A sealed SNES copy of EVO just sold for 2000. My asking price has not gone up in all this time. All the other rare Nintendo items I have had have gone up in value and I consider this a collectors item. I am a collector and given the choice between this a sealed copy of EVO I'd rather have this.

While we are on the subject of crap. What I think is crap is all the people who think the game just HAS to be released so the masses can play and enjoy it. I bring this same game to the CCAG game show in Cleveland every year and let everyone know I have it there for play. NO ONE has ever wanted to play it. Next show is Saturday this coming Saturday as in tomorrow. I'll try it again. I bring several undumped unreleased games every year and no one ever cares.

After someone does dump it (and I am sure it will happen if you are patient) it will get a write up somewhere on the forums with some posts and some attention. People will play it once or twice and then forget about it. It looks great as an unwrapped christmas present but after you open it and find another pair of socks no one cares.

It will be dumped. Someone will release it. It just won't be me. Thinking ahead I had the original owner write this letter for me so it would still retain some collectable value after it was dumped. It will still be one of a kind and might even be worth 400-600 in that condition. Not a bad drop in price when you consider that the sealed EVO would be worth what 100-200 if you opened it.

[Buyatari]

How much would I have to pay for you to leak some screenshots/video?

Free just come to the CCAG show.

[hellfire]

Free just come to the CCAG show.

I might be able to show up, just give me some more info about it

[Buyatari]

I might be able to show up, just give me some more info about it

it is tomorrow.

www.ccagshow.com

[ProgrammingAce]

Alright, i got a lot of requests to see some of this stuff. Wasn't as much in the $20 as i thought, but there are a few titles. You guys missed out when i sold about 50 betas last year for $3 each...

http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1560804

[DreamTR]

Diosoth: You are pretty freaking naive to say the least. Anyone who collects protos KNOWS the value goes down on unreleased games when they are dumped. No one is talking about emulation with released games.

You don't collect protos. Some of us do. Stick to things you know instead of assumptions. I am sick of people trying to make false statements about things.

And not to brag about it, but I do have a Lobo unreleased proto, albeit for Genesis. I have no idea if there is one on the web, but I know mine is not released.

Also, people like you have a habit of saying "horders" don't dump things. They ARE dumped, just not released for free.

How anyone can complain about something for $1200 that is one of a kind, but pay thousands more for shrinkwrap is beyond me. It's just another classic example of someone who has no idea wtf he is talking about.

Most of us will release stuff if we get some money back that we paid, but I'm not paying $1000 for something and dumping it for free. That's stupid. If you think it's not, then give me your car. I need it more than you. Give me your possessions. I'm not paying for someone else's entertainment.

[PACHUKA]

I don't get the mentality of buying up some rare, unreleased game and then making it your sole goal to ensure the ROM isn't dumped. You can bitch about "ruining the value" but that's complete shit and everyone knows it. Emulation hasn't done a damn thing to curb the value of much anything. Not that most of these people ever plan to sell them anyway. You can claim you want to hold onto them but eventually those old EPROM chips will lose their data and you'll have a cartridge with nothing on it.

Seems if I was going to buy some prototype of an unreleased game and make sure it's never dumped, I'd put vids on Youtube of the carts being destroyed. If you're going to be a dick about ROM dumping then go all out.

I'd love to find some proto of an unreleased game. Say... Lobo for SNES. I'd track down a ROM dumper and send it to them so fast the anti-ROM collectors would put a contract out on me.

I totally feel you on this point. However, time and the advice of such friends as drx and theredeye have given me a bit more open mind. Best case from my point of view would be the release of any and all prototypes in a digital format. But that's -my- opinion. But when it comes down to it, I don't own the materials in question.

I used to be a collector myself, I had all kinds of rare stuff. But at the end of the day, the only thing I felt I was doing was surrounding myself with bragging rights. It was a bit lame and didn't accomplish much. I felt like I was just wasting massive amounts of money just to say "look what I have that you don't!" But there's also an awesome rush of holding a one of a kind item in your hands and knowing there are few or none like it.

Is it selfish? Yeah, of course. However, it's their right, they invested the cash, the outcome is in their control. I'm somewhat comfortable with the fact that they at least dump them onto their own computers, I just hope they make hard copies as well. As long as they make some type of effort to preserve, then I'll keep my snarky remarks to myself. Hell, it could be worse, they could release them with a hacked watermark on the screen. =\

[DreamTR]

Watermarks are to avoid people passing off copies as the real thing. It's like one line of text, nothing more.

You're getting to play the game for free anyway, not sure what there is to complain about.

And spending $1000 on a game and not giving it away for free is NOT selfish. It's selfish for people to THINK they have a RIGHT to have said game for free for $1000. Would you give $1000 away to anyone for the hell of it? That's basically that is being insinuated as being selfish here. The person spending $1000 and not giving away the game. The data is why the game is that expensive.

This argument can go on forever, and even with the obvious GIVE ME MONEY AND YOU GET PROTO DUMPS people still EXPECT the games given away for free, so there really is no argument here any more, you can't argue with things that make no sense.

[Buyatari]

I totally feel you on this point. However, time and the advice of such friends as drx and theredeye have given me a bit more open mind. Best case from my point of view would be the release of any and all prototypes in a digital format. But that's -my- opinion. But when it comes down to it, I don't own the materials in question.

I used to be a collector myself, I had all kinds of rare stuff. But at the end of the day, the only thing I felt I was doing was surrounding myself with bragging rights. It was a bit lame and didn't accomplish much. I felt like I was just wasting massive amounts of money just to say "look what I have that you don't!" But there's also an awesome rush of holding a one of a kind item in your hands and knowing there are few or none like it.

Is it selfish? Yeah, of course. However, it's their right, they invested the cash, the outcome is in their control. I'm somewhat comfortable with the fact that they at least dump them onto their own computers, I just hope they make hard copies as well. As long as they make some type of effort to preserve, then I'll keep my snarky remarks to myself. Hell, it could be worse, they could release them with a hacked watermark on the screen. =\


Well some people enjoy collecting. Sorry it didn't work out for you.

[Buyatari]

Watermarks are to avoid people passing off copies as the real thing. It's like one line of text, nothing more.

You're getting to play the game for free anyway, not sure what there is to complain about.

And spending $1000 on a game and not giving it away for free is NOT selfish. It's selfish for people to THINK they have a RIGHT to have said game for free for $1000. Would you give $1000 away to anyone for the hell of it? That's basically that is being insinuated as being selfish here. The person spending $1000 and not giving away the game. The data is why the game is that expensive.

This argument can go on forever, and even with the obvious GIVE ME MONEY AND YOU GET PROTO DUMPS people still EXPECT the games given away for free, so there really is no argument here any more, you can't argue with things that make no sense.

Everyone is selfish. Human nature. You want more than you need to barely survive. You have 2 bowls of Captain Crunch this morning while others in the world starve to death and that is selfish. I have no shame. I admit it. I want LOTS of things. I want to own more than I will ever need to barely live. I'd like to retire one day. Have a vacation. Have fun doing things I enjoy with no benefit to anyone else. Anyone who sold anything on ebay auction style was selfish. They wanted the most they could get for that particular item.

Sometimes I shift gears and want different things so I sell then buy other things but when it comes down to it yes I'm a horder. I'm a packrat of the 10th degree in all I do and I'm not right in the head. I am a collector.

Sometimes I share things. Sometimes I give things away for free. So what. Who cares. I try to have fun.

These debates are just peer pressure to get people to do things a certain way.

[MatthewCallis]

My 2 cents:
(I've made a similar connection before...)

Let's say I have a game, cost me $1,000 or so, and I give away a ROM image. Let's say you have a game that cost you $800 and you would like to keep it to yourself, but you share pictures and knowledge or whatever. The first is simply philanthropy and the 2nd is an item in a private collection.

The same goes for art, I buy a painting for let say, $12,000 dollars, and I give it to a local university or museum collection. Let's now say you bought a painting for $1,000,000 dollars and hang it in your home. The first is simply philanthropy and the 2nd is an item in a private collection.

Then...

The museum sells tickets to see the painting and what do I get? $0. Why would I do that and not sell it to them? Personal decision, mine being I wanted my name on a little bronze plaque quietly placed under the work. They sell prints, the image is used in countless books, magazines, etc. I got: $0.

You kept you painting in your home, and perhaps had it digitized and sold its use to textbooks, magazines, who ever might want it. Why would I do that and not sell it to them? Personal decision, this time being motivated by the need to donate a new building to a local free health center. What do you get? $$$$$$ for your health center, your house payments, to put your child through college, to buy a whore or get high. It's your money.

[Buyatari]

No matter what anyone says. It is just hard to turn down real life money for what comes down to just a videogame.

[MatthewCallis]

No matter what anyone says. It is just hard to turn down real life money for what comes down to just a videogame.

Exactly.

[PACHUKA]

Watermarks are to avoid people passing off copies as the real thing. It's like one line of text, nothing more.

I'm gonna have to call bullshit on that one. Anyone who is a collector is going to know the resources to check out the item at hand to see if what they buy is real or not. If they don't, it's their own damn fault, tough shit, it's a hard lesson to learn but it happens. The concept of hacking a watermark, even if it's under the false pretense of preventing fake copies is wrong, and very unethical. It's nothing more then an attention grabbing plug, plain and simple, and no amount of arguing or debating changes that. To be honest, I would rather see something lost forever then to see it corrupted.


You're getting to play the game for free anyway, not sure what there is to complain about.

What's to complain about is the fact not all of us want to "play" these games. Personally, the travesty of the recent Mike Tyson game is a prime example. The game is ass awful. But, it is a piece of game development history, and I'd like to see it preserved as such. To me, the concept is identical to the idea of someone finding a long lost Da Vinci painting, and painting their name over a corner of it before releasing it to the public. Legal? In most countries yes. Ethical? Not in the least.


And spending $1000 on a game and not giving it away for free is NOT selfish. It's selfish for people to THINK they have a RIGHT to have said game for free for $1000. Would you give $1000 away to anyone for the hell of it? That's basically that is being insinuated as being selfish here. The person spending $1000 and not giving away the game. The data is why the game is that expensive.

Actually, this is a point I agree with. To use the painting compare again, sure you can hold onto your materials, it's your right. But a lot of people donate rare stuff to preserve history. It varies from person to person. Honestly, if I have a few hundred grand to spend, I'd buy up loads of shit and dump it. No other reason then preservation and study.


This argument can go on forever,

OMFG DOESN'T IT?!


and even with the obvious GIVE ME MONEY AND YOU GET PROTO DUMPS people still EXPECT the games given away for free, so there really is no argument here any more, you can't argue with things that make no sense.

Well, I made a fairly good arguement for my opinion, and you made a great one for yours. I think both sides of this have great points to consider. I think Buyatari made the best point of all, which was to blatently come out and say "I am selfish," because it's true. We're all selfish in our own way, and for different reasons. I like that he's got the big brass balls to just say it, that I have mad respect for. I even respect the opinions of collectors now, even if I disagree with them. However, the watermarking part is just wrong, and it will remain as such.

[PACHUKA]

Let's say I have

kept

paint

motivated by the need

to

get high.

=D=D=D=D

[Buyatari]

Ok look Pachuka you and many others who want to see these game preserved don't like it when a collector profits from the release. Perhaps because you haven't profited yourself or perhaps because you just view things differently. You don't have to admit it here but just listen. Given that can't you understand how someone who found the proto might not want some leech to grab the ROM off the net and start making his own copies with it. Worse yet sell them as something they are not on eBay for hundreds?

I mean in the end it is funny how so many people can claim to own something that really no one does.

The right and wrong and legal arguments are always hypocritical and self serving in these situations. If it is wrong for someone to release the ROM on cart and charge money then it is also wrong to simply release the ROM. The infractions if any are so tiny as no jobs are affected either way. As you said the game sucks. This watermark doesn't really doesn't affect gameplay but I think all releases should be marked in some way. If another cart shows up on ebay how do we know it is an original or a copy put onto a blank board.

You say you want the game preserved in the original state..... well it is. The original has NOT been changed. It is just not public.

[hellfire]

you can have this one for $1250.oo

Shadowhawk for SNES comes with a letter from an Image Comics employee

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t245/WastingOrpheus/MVC-002S-14.jpg

you should make a couple hundred repros of this game and sell them for 50 dollars each, and make people pre order them and dont ship them out until you have 1250$ in pre orders

[PapaStu]

you should make a couple hundred repros of this game and sell them for 50 dollars each, and make people pre order them and dont ship them out until you have 1250$ in pre orders

You don't understand Adam there. He's saying if you want it, he'll sell it for 1250. If not, no skin off his back. He's happy where it is, and in this case, sitting in his treasure trove back room until he either decides to sell it, or someone offers him something he feels is worth it. He doesn't care if its released or not once its out of his hands, but releasing it in that manner isn't something he's going to do.

Do you realize how intensive that is to do? Getting donor carts, burning the roms, labels, box/manuals produced, games being assembeled, managing and getting enough pre-orders to 'pay' for the production costs alone, let alone the investment cost? It's never a simple feat to just make teh romz into those repo games.

[Buyatari]

You don't understand Adam there. He's saying if you want it, he'll sell it for 1250. If not, no skin off his back. He's happy where it is, and in this case, sitting in his treasure trove back room until he either decides to sell it, or someone offers him something he feels is worth it. He doesn't care if its released or not once its out of his hands, but releasing it in that manner isn't something he's going to do.

Do you realize how intensive that is to do? Getting donor carts, burning the roms, labels, box/manuals produced, games being assembeled, managing and getting enough pre-orders to 'pay' for the production costs alone, let alone the investment cost? It's never a simple feat to just make teh romz into those repo games.

He is right. That just isn't my area. If I knew what I was doing I might try it but I don't have a clue when it comes to getting something like this off the ground.

Also should point out that many times collectors who do this really want to keep the original. I have moved on and have other interests so keeping the cart isn't as important to me as it once was.

[megasdkirby]

No matter what anyone says. It is just hard to turn down real life money for what comes down to just a videogame.

Excellent quote. True 101%.

[PACHUKA]

Ok look Pachuka you and many others who want to see these game preserved don't like it when a collector profits from the release. Perhaps because you haven't profited yourself or perhaps because you just view things differently. You don't have to admit it here but just listen. Given that can't you understand how someone who found the proto might not want some leech to grab the ROM off the net and start making his own copies with it. Worse yet sell them as something they are not on eBay for hundreds?

I mean in the end it is funny how so many people can claim to own something that really no one does.

The right and wrong and legal arguments are always hypocritical and self serving in these situations. If it is wrong for someone to release the ROM on cart and charge money then it is also wrong to simply release the ROM. The infractions if any are so tiny as no jobs are affected either way. As you said the game sucks. This watermark doesn't really doesn't affect gameplay but I think all releases should be marked in some way. If another cart shows up on ebay how do we know it is an original or a copy put onto a blank board.

You say you want the game preserved in the original state..... well it is. The original has NOT been changed. It is just not public.

Cool, as long as it's preserved, I'm good. Well put, the only thing I'm going to say I disagree with is I don't see a difference between people who own a proto making reproductions, or so "leech" as you put it. Exact same thing to me. As for ebay, as unlikely as it is, if someone managed to squeeze a repro through there, honestly, who cares? I'd say close to all of those are booted off ebay within a day. Here at DP they are posted, assembler, unseen64, lost levels, our site, all over. Ebay is pretty watchdogged. Watermarking doesn't make a bit of difference either, as can be seen with how quickly I hacked out the watermark. Sure, it may not be the original text, but it's easy enough to do, and I could easily make a reproduction myself and sell it. The way it comes off sounding to me is "I on the original, so fuck you, all the money is mine!" Which I don't have much respect for. But thanks for the level headed arguement, it was truly refreshing.

[DreamTR]

Pachuka, you don't collect as many cart protos as I do. If someone WANTS to make a repro of a game that looks EXACTLY like a proto, they can do it. I don't want my dumped games to end up like how it is in the Atari 2600 community where at times only 1 or 2 people can tell the difference. Watermarking the ROM means the person purchasing the game has to dump the game to FIND the watermark. That's just not going to happen with a lot of people.

Also, Mike Tyson was under MY rules. That was the only way the game was going to get released. The original is saved and archived. I just don't want anyone getting confused and passing off the dump on a cart as original one day. It's not like I can get anything close to what I would have gotten if I sold the cart for what I would have undumped. And the "crappy" game argument does not stand up because MOST unreleased games are crap. That is why they stay unreleased. You got to play the game for free. Not sure what "travesty" is there if I have the original ROM and original game safe and sound.

If not "everyone" wants to play those games, no one should be bugging me to dump protos then, LOL.

As I said before, if people want to donate and get some stuff from me, I'm all for it...(serious people only) Some people have just messaged me to find out what I have and left it at that, but to get my stuff, it's going to take money. It took me years and time to acquire all this stuff, and money talks. I am open to pretty much everything on releasing games except for a few.

[hellfire]

Pachuka, you don't collect as many cart protos as I do. If someone WANTS to make a repro of a game that looks EXACTLY like a proto, they can do it. I don't want my dumped games to end up like how it is in the Atari 2600 community where at times only 1 or 2 people can tell the difference. Watermarking the ROM means the person purchasing the game has to dump the game to FIND the watermark. That's just not going to happen with a lot of people.

Also, Mike Tyson was under MY rules. That was the only way the game was going to get released. The original is saved and archived. I just don't want anyone getting confused and passing off the dump on a cart as original one day. It's not like I can get anything close to what I would have gotten if I sold the cart for what I would have undumped. And the "crappy" game argument does not stand up because MOST unreleased games are crap. That is why they stay unreleased. You got to play the game for free. Not sure what "travesty" is there if I have the original ROM and original game safe and sound.

If not "everyone" wants to play those games, no one should be bugging me to dump protos then, LOL.

As I said before, if people want to donate and get some stuff from me, I'm all for it...(serious people only) Some people have just messaged me to find out what I have and left it at that, but to get my stuff, it's going to take money. It took me years and time to acquire all this stuff, and money talks. I am open to pretty much everything on releasing games except for a few.


can you please send me a list of what you have

[Sniderman]

Some people have just messaged me to find out what I have and left it at that...


can you please send me a list of what you have


but to get my stuff, it's going to take money. It took me years and time to acquire all this stuff, and money talks.


Think what you want of me, Im not old enough to get a real job so what do you expect,

Outstanding.

[DreamTR]

ROFL Exactly SNiderman.

Hellfire, you already PMed me with a ridiculous "I KNOW YOU HAVE SOME SO DON'T SAY YOU DON'T" comment.

If you have no job and no money, we're not talking about it. You're just in this to "find out" what is available.

[TRM]

Outstanding.

I was thinking the same thing myself.

[TRM]

Pachuka, you don't collect as many cart protos as I do. If someone WANTS to make a repro of a game that looks EXACTLY like a proto, they can do it. I don't want my dumped games to end up like how it is in the Atari 2600 community where at times only 1 or 2 people can tell the difference. Watermarking the ROM means the person purchasing the game has to dump the game to FIND the watermark. That's just not going to happen with a lot of people.


I agree 100% with DreamTR's thoughts above. Many people do not have the equiptment or knowledge to dump games, so watermarking the ROM is really not feasible. I also second DreamTR's opinion, and also do not want this market to turn into the way that the 2600 scene is...their prototype market...that is a total nightmare, imo.

[hellfire]

ROFL Exactly SNiderman.

Hellfire, you already PMed me with a ridiculous "I KNOW YOU HAVE SOME SO DON'T SAY YOU DON'T" comment.

If you have no job and no money, we're not talking about it. You're just in this to "find out" what is available.

When you go buy a game do you grab a random game off of the shelf and hope for the best, or do you browse and see what your best options are, I have every legal right to browse before I buy, im not even looking for something expensive anyways, so why does it matter to you?

[DreamTR]

When you go buy a game do you grab a random game off of the shelf and hope for the best, or do you browse and see what your best options are, I have every legal right to browse before I buy, im not even looking for something expensive anyways, so why does it matter to you?


Because you ASKED me a for a list. Unreleased games are not cheap. So if you aren't looking for something expensive, what are you expecting me to say?

You aren't browsing, you're not even window shopping. It's more of a curiosity. If you don't have any money, but want to look at stuff in an expensive store with no money to buy, that is not the definition of browsing.

There's no need to give you a list if you have no money to purchase anything and are looking for "cheap" unreleased games.

[Sniderman]

When you go buy a game do you grab a random game off of the shelf and hope for the best, or do you browse and see what your best options are, I have every legal right to browse before I buy, im not even looking for something expensive anyways, so why does it matter to you?

I used to manage a convenience store. I once had this kid who'd come in, walk to the candy aisle, grab a candy bar, and bring it to the counter.
"How much is this?" he'd ask.
"Fifty cents," I'd say.
He'd walk back, place the candy back in the box, get a different candy bar and bring it to the counter.
"How much is this?" he'd ask.
"That's thirty cents," I'd answer.
He'd return the candy and get a new piece and bring it up and ask the price. This went on for 30 minutes. Finally, I got fed up.
"Before I tell you the price of any more candy, how much money do you have to spend?" I asked.
"I don't have ANY money, mister," he answered. "But there's no law against me asking how much stuff is."
That's when I kicked him out and banned him from the store for generally being a dick.

There's a lesson here, but I'll be damned if I know what it is.

[PACHUKA]

Pachuka, you don't collect as many cart protos as I do. If someone WANTS to make a repro of a game that looks EXACTLY like a proto, they can do it.

And?


I don't want my dumped games to end up like how it is in the Atari 2600 community where at times only 1 or 2 people can tell the difference. Watermarking the ROM means the person purchasing the game has to dump the game to FIND the watermark. That's just not going to happen with a lot of people.

Also, Mike Tyson was under MY rules.

I'm aware. Still find it unethical.


That was the only way the game was going to get released. The original is saved and archived. I just don't want anyone getting confused and passing off the dump on a cart as original one day. It's not like I can get anything close to what I would have gotten if I sold the cart for what I would have undumped. And the "crappy" game argument does not stand up because MOST unreleased games are crap. That is why they stay unreleased. You got to play the game for free. Not sure what "travesty" is there if I have the original ROM and original game safe and sound.

Well good. I'm not sure at what point I used the term "crappy," but releasing under the RULES you suggest leaves a mass flux of corrupted data. Your RULES are shady to me, and I will speak my mind as such. I could give a fuck less if you release them publicly, as I've stated previously. But you charged a community of people a massive amount of cash for a corrupted rom image, and I still find it unethical.


If not "everyone" wants to play those games, no one should be bugging me to dump protos then, LOL.

As long as you have them backed up from bitrotting, I consider that issue closed. I find it a shame, but I'm really not concerned with having a copy, I'm just concerned with seeing that they don't disappear forever.


As I said before, if people want to donate and get some stuff from me, I'm all for it...(serious people only) Some people have just messaged me to find out what I have and left it at that, but to get my stuff, it's going to take money. It took me years and time to acquire all this stuff, and money talks. I am open to pretty much everything on releasing games except for a few.

I hope you mean selling the physical copies, because I really hope to not see another tragedy like mike tyson again. =\