No mo' Mario?

[ManekiNeko]

I've heard an unsavory rumor elsewhere that Nintendo president Satoru Iwata is thinking about retiring Mario and replacing him with a more contemporary mascot. I hope there's no truth to this, because if there is, it means Nintendo is on the verge of making a mistake so enormous it will make even the Virtual Boy seem like small potatoes.
I understand the rationale behind dumping Mario. Yes, he's old, and no, he doesn't draw crowds the way the stars of Grand Theft Auto and Tony Hawk's Pro Skater do. He's not hip, he's not "extreme", and he's anything but controversial. But you know what? Those games are merely fads, just like the Earthworm Jims and Tomb Raiders before them. Tomb Raider pulled in millions and millions of dollars back when it was popular, but its fame faded quickly. Mario, on the other hand, will always, always have his fans. He's weathered the constant changes in the industry and has always came out on top. This time will be no different, IF Nintendo gives the little plumber a chance to prove himself.
Sure, Nintendo could chase after the easy money and come up with a new, hip mascot. But young video game fans are notoriously fickle, and the older ones will strongly resent Mario being forced into retirement in favor of a contrived character whipped up by the marketing department and a couple of inexperienced artists. This new guy will quickly be forgotten, and without Mario around, so will Nintendo.

JR

[buttasuperb]

We need another 2D Mario platformer.

That is all.

[kainemaxwell]

That's like replacing Pokemon's mascot of Pikachu with someone like Pooche the Dog...

[chadtower]

We need Mario porn.

[Arcade Antics]

That's like replacing Pokemon's mascot of Pikachu with someone like Pooche the Dog...

"To the EXTREME!!"

[Eternal Champion]

The Simpsons did a brilliant job satirizing this kind of board room shenanigans with...shudder...POOCHIE.

A smaller but still damning example is the "Honey Nut Cheerios Meets Sonic" hideousness George Lucas' cronies inserted into Return of the Jedi. But that's a whole other rant.

The thing about Mario is that he wasn't created as a mascot by the marketing suits, he was put into a goofy game that unexpectedly became huge, and it took time to prove its staying power. A "mascot" cannot simply be created in a marketing department...it's shameless corporate fakery. But the big video game companies aren't much different from "our loyal fans will buy any piece of crap we throw at them" Disney. In other words, following the practices or every other entertainment corporation: creating brand loyalty. Why are we so attached to Mario? It's not a character, it's a brand. For consumers to feel familiarity with and buy more goods. Changing the face of it doesn't change its function.

[Anonymous]

http://n-philes.com/php/epvuevaalkeayyufuapa.php

This is the article that mentions replacing mario and pokemon. I think the intent of the announcement wasn't to replace the characters, as it says, but more to find the next big franchise that will be as successful as mario and pokemon. I'd double check the translation, but I don't know where to find it, and I can't read japanese.

[zmeston]

I wouldn't kill off Mr. Porn 'Stache completely, but I'd definitely put him in mothballs for a while -- six or seven years, a la Metroid -- and give Miyamoto enough time to come up with a game design that reinvents the platform genre. Super Mario Sunshine just wasn't the "event" game it needed to be, whether because of Miyamoto's unfortunate Pikmin distraction or Sunshine's N64 roots, so the next Mario game has to be staggeringly great.

-- Z.

[chadtower]

SMB was staggeringly great and so was Mario 64... hell, Mario 64 probably sold more consoles than any game in the post crash era.

[kainemaxwell]

A smaller but still damning example is the "Honey Nut Cheerios Meets Sonic" hideousness George Lucas' cronies inserted into Return of the Jedi. But that's a whole other rant.

WTF?! O_o

[ManekiNeko]

I *think* he's talking about the Ewoks, but I'm not sure.
Ewoks... the bears so ugly even I don't like them.

JR

[zmeston]

SMB was staggeringly great and so was Mario 64... hell, Mario 64 probably sold more consoles than any game in the post crash era.

Yep, both SMB and Mario 64 are all-time classics, so Sunshine was probably doomed to disappoint by comparison. Miyamoto is the world's most talented game designer, so he's expected to raise the bar every time, but with Sunshine, he was coasting. I don't blame Miyamoto for burying himself in Pikmin and trying to move beyond the platform-game realm -- after 20 years, I'd want to mix it up a little, too -- but Sunshine inarguably suffered as a result of his dabbling.

-- Z.

[Eternal Champion]

I *think* he's talking about the Ewoks, but I'm not sure.
Ewoks... the bears so ugly even I don't like them.

JR

No NO!! I love the Ewoks, actually. Never minded them. I'm talking about the...shudder..."Special Edition" Return of the Jedi, where they messed with Jabba's Palace Band, made it more of a ridiculous, Saturday morning cereal creature mascot commercial. Horrifying. Messing with that scene alone will prevent me from owning the "Special Edition" trilogy. Fuck Lucas. Fuck 'im!!

[kainemaxwell]

Ewoks = Jedi Elves.

[Phosphor Dot Fossils]

You love 'em and you know it.

http://www.thelogbook.com/toy/rotj2/wicket.jpg http://www.thelogbook.com/toy/rotj2/paploo.jpg

They're quite good in a thick white wine sauce...

Seriously, I don't have a problem with the big N relegating Mario to "sometimes spokes-mascot" status (a la Namco with Pac-Man - they use him on a lot of stuff, but how often does he actually have a new game?). But retiring the character permanently...I dunno, I agree with some others that this would be a huge mistake.

[dave2236]

your right, the whole Jabbas palace rock band did screw the movie and so did the new song at the end. I liked the old ewok music.

ANY WAY Ending Mario would just be stupid. If Nintendo does end him then well they deserve to lose money. I'd like to see more games with Luigi, Yoshi, Wario, or the princess in them. But they have to be good games and fun to play. Mario 64 was awesome, Super Smash Bros was cool, mario party was good. Honestly i got bored with mario sunshine after 2 days and sold it quickly after. I enjoyed Star Fox adventure more and Rogue leader and thought Pikmin was a blast. I've played Pikmin 4-5 times just to see if I can save everyone and how many I can create.

[Anonymous]

A smaller but still damning example is the "Honey Nut Cheerios Meets Sonic" hideousness George Lucas' cronies inserted into Return of the Jedi.
I could be mistaken, but I think you mean the Honey Comb monster, Crazy Craving who, god help us, has his own page with a Bio:

http://www.kraftfoods.com/postcereals/cereal_honeycomb.html

[kainemaxwell]

Even without Mario there's many other characters in the Mario universe that can shine! Luigi and Wario have done so thus far, what about everyone else? How about a game starring Bowser, Wario Land style, where you're the bad guy?

[EnemyZero]

Mario RPG 2? hmmmmm

[hezeuschrist]

I don't think they want to bury Mario and Pokemon, just put them on the back burner. Right now they're fighting a losing battle to gain the more mature gaming audience and they're looking for some great modern franchises to capture some of the GTA/Halo market.

[Ed Oscuro]

I have read comments from senior staff at Nintendo (reported in the media, of course) that Mario's move to 3D has reduced the number of people playing those games. Just as buttasuperb remarks, it seems that Nintendo may be considering a move BACK to 2D, which, as far as I know, would be unprecedented for a flagship, full-fledged console title on major hardware.

I think the rumors that Mario will be dropped altogether may have had their field day, but I doubt anybody is cheering on such a possibility.

Pokemon remains a moneymaker for the company--there was talk about something new with the series being brought out for GameCube's online segment, to bring in new players.

(Edit: The bit about Pokemon is from old news--they might or might not have made up their minds to have Pokemon be the next new thing, and not have informed the media of their plans)

[ClubNinja]

Those games are merely fads, just like the Earthworm Jims and Tomb Raiders before them.

As an aside from the main topic here... the Earthworm Jim series and its characters still have many loyal fans. While I suppose it's more of a "cult" thing, I know plenty of folks that faithfully play the old EWJ games and would *love* to see a new addition to the series. Myself included. I even enjoyed the 3D game :)

[zmeston]

Those games are merely fads, just like the Earthworm Jims and Tomb Raiders before them.

As an aside from the main topic here... the Earthworm Jim series and its characters still have many loyal fans. While I suppose it's more of a "cult" thing, I know plenty of folks that faithfully play the old EWJ games and would *love* to see a new addition to the series. Myself included. I even enjoyed the 3D game :)

There were well-sourced rumors that David Perry, Doug TenNapel, and Tommy Tallarico, the EWJ dream team, would be reuniting to work on a new game, so your wish may yet come true.

-- Z.

[dave2236]

I would buy a game with bowser as the lead character. I loved having him and geno in Mario RPG.

Also mario RPG 2 was converted somewhat into Paper Mario.

I would love to see a Mario RPG 3 someday on the gamecube with Squaresoft giving nintendo some help.


I mean kingdom hearts was pretty good and I know disney didnt have that good of ideas, They had to get help from somewhere.

[WiseSalesman]

Mario RPG 2? hmmmmm

Unlikely to ever happen. I feel that, without Square's help and supervision, the game would come up way short from the excellence of the original.

Furthermore, these days, when Square wants to sell out to pop-culture, they use DISNEY, not Nintendo. :P

[bobdrywalls]

i think nintendo had a smrpg2 ATTEMPT with paper mario. it sucked badly and was a kiddie game. they need to make an rpg rated t with swearing, violence, and stuff like that. like final fantasy.

[WiseSalesman]

i think nintendo had a smrpg2 ATTEMPT with paper mario. it sucked badly and was a kiddie game. they need to make an rpg rated t with swearing, violence, and stuff like that. like final fantasy.

I can't tell if you're trying to be sarcastic or what, but if you're being serious I don't agree with you. I think Paper Mario was an interesting concept, but ultimately flawed in execution. It's one of the the few games where the graphics have made it physically difficult for me to stomach playing a game, and I LIKE kiddie games, so that should tell you something.

Also, I don't think party-of-one rpgs work that well. A game doesn't need "T-rated" themes to make it excellent, I thought the original MarioRPG was great and Final Fantasies 4 and 6 are in my top fifteen games of all time. What an RPG needs to be successful is a compelling story, good characterization, and a competent gameplay system. I don't think Nintendo particularly has a good grasp on any of these, so I'd rather they stick to their action/adventure games and leave the RPGs to the professionals. :D

[Sylentwulf]

Maybe it's because the camera angles were SO BAD, they just decided to give up on it entirely, and go back to where they didn't have to worry about camera angles.

[Eternal Champion]

Eternal Champion wrote:
A smaller but still damning example is the "Honey Nut Cheerios Meets Sonic" hideousness George Lucas' cronies inserted into Return of the Jedi.

I could be mistaken, but I think you mean the Honey Comb monster, Crazy Craving who, god help us, has his own page with a Bio:

http://www.kraftfoods.com/postcereals/cereal_honeycomb.html

OH GOD yes, I'm too afraid to look, but I know it's that damn Honey Comb wretchedness...Yep. Special Edition Return of the Jedi is now a shameless Saturday morning cartoon. I find it FRIGHTENING that you know it's name and website. The reason I brought it up in the first place is how similar that...thing...is to these cereal mascots.

[Mr. NEStalgia]

Mario will never die!!!!

-=Mr. NEStalgia=-

[Epicenter]

I'm sorry, but Mario in 3D is just a lousy idea. Sonic in 3D worked a bit better, but Mario? No, just ... no. I haven't liked a single one of the 3D games-- Mario 64 was kind of entertaining for about 10 minutes, but got old very, very fast. What we need is a Mario and a Sonic platformer (2 separate games of course) for the NGC, that take advantage of all the power that platform has. Maybe a 3D Platformer with a camera locked at a side-scroller view, like Klonoa 2: Lunatea's Veil for PS2, or Duke Nukem: Manhatten Project (PC).

[YoshiM]

I'm sorry, but Mario in 3D is just a lousy idea. Sonic in 3D worked a bit better, but Mario? No, just ... no. I haven't liked a single one of the 3D games-- Mario 64 was kind of entertaining for about 10 minutes, but got old very, very fast. What we need is a Mario and a Sonic platformer (2 separate games of course) for the NGC, that take advantage of all the power that platform has. Maybe a 3D Platformer with a camera locked at a side-scroller view, like Klonoa 2: Lunatea's Veil for PS2, or Duke Nukem: Manhatten Project (PC).

I kinda agree. One of the (very) few things I didn't like in Mario 64 is that there was a lot of useless land to wander in, IMO. To me a Mario game never really was too much about exploration but to get past the levels to bigger, harder, and new levels. Sure there was some degree of exploration in the sense of finding hidden objects, but the level had a beginning and an end and you moved on. Mario 64 had you diving into the same level multiple times to get stars, which got old after a while. Plus it wasn't overly challenging-get hurt-just go into water or collect coins. As for Mario Sunshine, don't get me started.


Maybe Nintendo will have to go back to their roots. I loved the adventure element in Super Smash Bros. Melee. Seeing the Mushroom Kingdom in 3D but in a locked perspective just rocked.

[tynstar]

I know this has been said but mascots cant be made they just happen. I also agree games like GTA are a fad and crap.

[zmeston]

I know this has been said but mascots cant be made they just happen. I also agree games like GTA are a fad and crap.

The first point is not necessarily true, as I vaguely recall that Sonic the Hedgehog was the end result of much testing and polling and tweaking within Sega of Japan, the express purpose of which was to create a mascot.

The second point is half-true; while the upcoming GTA rip-offs are capitalizing on the "fad" of M-rated games, GTA3/VC have layers of incredible gameplay beneath their violent sheens.

-- Z.