Rumor: Xbox Natal is Actually Microsoft's Next Console

[parallaxscroll]

Rumor: Xbox Natal is Actually Microsoft's Next Console

So you know how Microsoft is saying Natal will be as big as console launch? Well...yeah.
By Sam Kennedy, 06/12/2009

Earlier this week gaming blog Kotaku quoted Microsoft's Shane Kim as saying that the launch of Natal, Microsoft's new controller-free motion control technology, would be as big as the launch of a console. Not surprising. That's because Natal is going to be a new console.

On this week's Listen Up podcast we discussed Natal, and David Ellis and I talked about what we've been hearing regarding the new technology -- and how it's actually the cornerstone of Microsoft's next evolution of the Xbox. Microsoft will not only release Natal as an add-on for the Xbox 360, it will come standard with the next Xbox console.

Yes, there will be a new Xbox console next fall.

However, the new console won't just be an Xbox 360 with a camera, though -- we've heard it will be considered a new platform and carry a new name (Xbox Natal?). It's not clear what sort of upgrades we might see, but some have suggested it will be an slight upgrade of the current Xbox 360 technology. Current Xbox 360 games would be playable on it, but future games would be able to take advantage of the added muscle. Similar to what we see in the PC space, games played on the more advanced Xbox would look or perform better, but publishers will still be able to support owners of both systems. Some developers have complained that they've already maxed out the Xbox 360; perhaps this will give them room to expand.

Make no mistake, we wouldn't be talking about the sort of hardware leap we've seen with Xbox (or most other) platforms in the past, and we're not talking about Microsoft ending one console cycle and starting another. We're talking about an evolution of the Xbox 360; similar hardware but upgraded, repackaged, and rebranded. It's actually not that unlike what Nintendo did with the Wii, where it essentially took the GameCube hardware, stuck in motion controls, and successfully relaunched it. The new Xbox console is said to be aimed directly at a mainstream audience -- and will launch before Nintendo is able to release its Wii HD.

What's interesting is that Nintendo and Microsoft are on a course to deliver very similar products yet are coming at them from opposite directions. Microsoft currently has the HD hardware and will in the future introduce motion controls, while Nintendo has motion controls and will in the future introduce HD hardware. Sony's PS3 will also be providing motion controls next year, though as a peripheral for its EyeToy camera.
As John Davison pointed out on the podcast, the Wii was the first console to do this, but it's likely that all future hardware will be more iterative than substantive. The distinction between new consoles will become far less marked -- similar to what we've seen in the handheld space, such as with the transitions from the Game Boy to the Game Boy Advance, the DS to the DSi, or the PSP to the PSP Go.

So when would we first hear about this new Xbox console? Our sources point to next year's Game Developer's Conference as the target for its unveiling and Fall 2010 as the target for release.

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3174762


So, a slightly upgraded Xbox 360 combined with Natal
(ala GameCube --> Wii) is Microsoft's next console?

Thoughts?

[Sonicwolf]

Goodbye in-depth video games, hello quick money grubbing ala shovelware motion sensing horsecrap.

[Drifter 2000]

I have my doubts this is true...but if it is..well, Microsoft will have lost my business. Assuming they don't include standard controlling along with the motion sensing.

[Steve W]

Microsoft needed to re-engineer the Xbox 360 a few years back, just to make it stop overheating. A new 360 with slightly more powerful hardware? Sounds like a machine that will red ring even faster. If they'd stop being so cheap and just upgrade the cooling system on the 360, I'd be happy. And so would millions of others who have had multiple Xbox 360s die from overheating.

[Half Japanese]

With excruciatingly few exceptions, the Wii library has proven motion controls in video games to be little more than shallow, gimmicky shit so far. I haven't looked into or gotten excited about Natal thus far, but I still can't imagine getting hyped about motion controls.

If Natal is Microsoft's next stab at a console, I'll pass.

[Sonicwolf]

Microsoft needed to re-engineer the Xbox 360 a few years back, just to make it stop overheating. A new 360 with slightly more powerful hardware? Sounds like a machine that will red ring even faster. If they'd stop being so cheap and just upgrade the cooling system on the 360, I'd be happy. And so would millions of others who have had multiple Xbox 360s die from overheating.

Microsoft should just do what Sony does to every console. A budget redesign which improves on the faults of the predecessor... A 360Slim with these added motion sensing capabilities would sure sell. They really need to nip this heating problem in the bud.

[TonyTheTiger]

I don't think any company, be it Nintendo, Sony, or MS is ballsy enough to launch any console without a traditional interface. It's like voice recognition. Sure, it's neat, but would you want to replace a mouse/keyboard with "Computer, open My Documents, please."

In the end, I don't see this changing much. A new console or a peripheral, it'll have it's uses but I highly doubt we'll end up becoming the old generation saying things like, "These whippersnappers today don't even know what it's like to hold a controller!"

[Sonicwolf]

I highly doubt we'll end up becoming the old generation saying things like, "These whippersnappers today don't even know what it's like to hold a controller!"

I really believe virtual/augmented reality will be a major thing in the near future. You never know what controls they could dream up then. I doubt the video games in their present form would be standard still in 20, 30 or 40 years.

[TonyTheTiger]

Things will evolve but I doubt the interface will be completely replaced for one major reason: it's never really happened before. There's no precedent for it and there's no real reason why it has to happen.

The computer is 50+ years old. The automobile is approaching 100 years old. The airplane is roughly as old. Guns are a few hundred years old. And boats and ships are even older than that. While they advanced over time, there hasn't been some gigantic overhaul of how humans interact with the machinery. Innovation expands how we can do things but doesn't necessarily replace what's most efficient. And while voice activated computers make for a great plot device in Star Trek, it's incredibly impractical.

I can't imagine interfacing with video games by waving your hands in the air being any more practical for most things that would be considered actual games. I think most people would rather make moves in virtual Chess with the click of a button than have to manually make the motion as if they were playing real chess. And that's not even considering games that ask the player to do things not comfortably translated into body movements. I could play Pac-Man by pointing my arms in different directions like a football referee but where's the benefit? These new interfaces are good but usually have fairly specific applications.

[unwinddesign]

I'm no developer, but I highly doubt the 360 is even close to being maxed out. I swear, developers get lazier and lazier each day, and so does Microsoft. That's why they need like a bajillion GBs for a PC game install now. Zero fucking optimization, anywhere, basically. Not to shit on them, since they do work hard making kick-ass games, but it seems the general sentiment is "ah, fuck trying to configure this on the current hardware, let's just make everyone upgrade to a 9800GTX or a Xbox 720 to play it!" Anyone remember that game for PC that was like 60 KB and had pretty nice 3D graphics, came out like three or four years back? Played like shit, but it was an interesting theoretical exercise. Probably a topic on here...

FIX the problems that the system already has, get creative with the processing power under the hood and stop making games with wasteful graphical effects. Gears of War 2 looked plenty nice to me. The PS2 was absolutely not maxed out in 2005...God of War 2 came out in 2007 and looked much better than the first one.

The thing about these upgrades is that they're never "forced"...to begin with. But pretty soon everything will be released for this new Xbox 360 2x or Natal or whatever the shitty name will be, and then all the Xbox users will be fucked. Kind of like last time. Granted, if it's the same price as the 360 currently, I won't have a problem. But then, I don't see that happening.

[/rant...I know, I know, it's only a rumor, but...wtf]

[Wraith Storm]

Anyone remember that game for PC that was like 60 KB and had pretty nice 3D graphics, came out like three or four years back? Played like shit, but it was an interesting theoretical exercise. Probably a topic on here...


Are you referring to .kkrieger? It was 96k and came out in 2006. It reminded me of the "tech demo" days between the Atari ST and Amiga groups. Yes, it played like crap but it was incredible to see a game like that fit into 96k.

I agree, most developers these days don't really give the impression that their games are really optimized for their platform. Or maybe the constraints of a game system are so loose now compared to what they used to be that its more difficult to see just how optimized a game really is.

For instance it's easy to look back at Panzer Dragoon Saga, Shining Force III, Scorcher, Virtua Fighter 2, Power Slave, Sonic R etc. on the Saturn and tell just how hard they coded and optimized to get everything in those games running with a solid frame rate. They had limited resources and had to code in creative ways to achieve those things. Same thing with the Factor 5 Star Wars games on the N64 where they wrote their own microcode to work around the systems faults. It was incredible, and proved that to a degree, limitations can force some developers to be more creative and thus the final product ends up being a better game.

But as each generation of systems passes the constraints get less and the resources get bigger. Faster processors, more ram, etc. So now it feels like most developers don't have to really optimize their games because it doesn't push the system as it would have several system generations ago.

I hope this generation lasts another several years so we can see what the current 3 systems can really do. Natal sounds like it could be really cool, but it all comes down to the games and creative developers. And no matter how good the motion sensing is... nothing will replace a controller, mouse, or keyboard for me.

[swlovinist]

I just want to say that I hate that many have had to deal with MS RROD situation....it is crazy to think that many are on their 2nd to even 5th console.

Hearing about this makes sense. The RROD/360 failure isssue needs to be addressed correctly. A redesign and 360 upgrade would make sense.

Here are my concens.

1. It better still use a traditional controller
2. It better be Backwards compatable with all titles
3. Software support for the device
4. Price...MS is not known to offer things cheaply.
5. Console support for the 360 when its replacement is out....MS not known for keeping systems around.

I think that the Natal has been recieved with praise, but I fear that MS will try to mimmic the Wii too much with casual games. This might frustrate their fan base who bought a 360 becasue it was different than the Wii. I like both systems for different reasons. When you get systems starting to be like one another, usually one fails and the other succeeds.

[JunkTheMagicDragon]

my money's on this being just the 360 slim, upgraded with valhalla and bundled with natal. i'm sure it'll have an upgraded hard drive too, since ms is getting more serious about pushing direct-dl games.

if they created a new console that was only a minor upgrade, it would create a division between new and old consoles as much as a major upgrade would. if you're going to do that, might as well make it a big jump in power. besides, despite how much ms would love to wade in nintendo's blue ocean, i doubt they're willing to concede the core market to sony, who'd jump on an underpowered 360 successor with a beastly ps4, although not in 2010.

[heybtbm]

Sounds cool. I couldn't care less about the motion controls though. I'm just excited that my 100+ 360 games aren't going to be last-gen anytime soon.

[parallaxscroll]

WORLD EXCLUSIVE FIRST DETAILS ON MICROSOFT'S NEXT XBOX

06/13/09 1UP recently posted a new article revealing details on Microsoft's plans for their next XBox, we can officially confirm the information found in that particular report was indeed correct. However today FGNOnline would like to reveal Microsoft's planned specifications of their new unit.

As mentioned in the 1UP piece the system shall indeed integrate the motion sensing technology Natal into the actual device, however our separate sources can now reveal the modest upgrade made to the actual architecture of the new system.

GPU

Whereas the original XBox 360 used a Shader Model 3 GPU with on-board 10MB eDRAM for 720p acceleration, the new XBox has a Shader Model 5 capable GPU with 32MB of eDRAM for 1080p output. The GPU again is designed by AMD and runs at a clock rate of 600MHz.

CPU

The IBM developed CPU shall have 6 cores instead of the 3 found in the original model.
Each single core shall have the same processing throughput as each single core from the XCPU. Meaning the chip is literally 200% as strong and shall now be on equal footing with the PS3 CELL CPU in GFLOPS performance.

MEMORY

The main system RAM has been upgraded from 512MB to 1024MB, and from GDDR3 to GDDR5.
The system retains a Unified Memory Architecture.

OTHER

The platform integrates a 2.5" 32GB SSD (Solid State Drive) instead of a HDD (Hard Disk Drive) as found in the original models. The system also uses a standard DVD drive foregoing Blu-ray thus ensuring backwards and forwards compatibility whilst simultaneously keeping the bill of materials low. Internet connectivity is provided via WiFi.

RELEASE & PRICING

Microsoft plans on a Q4 2010 simultaneous worldwide release. The company is targeting a sub $300 price point.


http://fgnonline.webs.com/

[RCM]

I have a hard time believing this report, and if it's totally false, MS better crush the rumors soon.

[Press_Start]

if they created a new console that was only a minor upgrade, it would create a division between new and old consoles as much as a major upgrade would. if you're going to do that, might as well make it a big jump in power. besides, despite how much ms would love to wade in nintendo's blue ocean, i doubt they're willing to concede the core market to sony, who'd jump on an underpowered 360 successor with a beastly ps4, although not in 2010.

Sure, let me get out my wallet with the thousand-dollar bills. :roll:

Developers hardly scratched the service on this generation, in terms of pushing processor power. So, 'roid'-ing for a graphics boost now would seem redundant. Not to mention how towering production costs (i.e. time and programming) pile up to take full advantage of such a beast.



I think that the Natal has been recieved with praise, but I fear that MS will try to mimmic the Wii too much with casual games. This might frustrate their fan base who bought a 360 becasue it was different than the Wii. I like both systems for different reasons. When you get systems starting to be like one another, usually one fails and the other succeeds.

That'll be ironic. Gamers dealing with years of RROD, don't even bat an eye, but the moment they have to share with grandma and grandpa, they go into a fit of rage.
:above me:

E3 showed the next generation will focus on motion-controls. It's a good thing for two reasons:

A. Companies can start catching up in making full use with what graphical capabilities consoles have now.
B. Opens new venues for game dev. to explore.

[NayusDante]

I've been really wondering about where Microsoft is going with their next console, but I seriously doubt that Natal is going to be the Wiimote to their Wii. Some of those specs above actually fit with my personal expectations, so I doubt they're going to release a console specifically toward the mainstream.

The specs in that quote sound ALMOST decent. Let me break things down:
GPU
-600mhz for a GPU is pretty good. If it's built for 1920x1080 output, it must be pretty respectable. I'm going to guess it's based on the Radeon 4870 at this point. That means on-chip Havok, geometry tesselation, and all that good stuff. Look at AMD's Radeon tech demos to see what to expect.

Processor
-Wrong direction. Unless they're running several background tasks, they're asking for trouble. The 360 has three cores, which is fine, and modern PCs use four. PS3 uses one core to run the XMB at all times, so if Microsoft follows suit that's five cores to use. AMD is talking about moving processing to the GPU, so Microsoft better have a good plan for all that CPU.

RAM
-Are they insane??? RAM is DIRT CHEAP these days! Unless there's a standard DIMM in a user-accessible area, 1gb is a BAD move.

Optical Drive
-DVD for the THIRD time? Even Sega, the bumbling failure of CD systems didn't use the same format on three consoles. Even SD cards or USB media would have been an upgrade, since those can easily hold more than 9gb of data, and their prices are rapidly falling. Unless the DVD drive is for legacy compatibility, they're killing themselves.

Operating System
-Put Windows 7 on it! Simply include a read-only partition with the backup image, and let it replace the PC! I would GLADLY replace my desktop gaming rig with an equivalent gaming console if it were a full-fledged PC. Think about what a standardized machine could do for PC gaming!

Controller
-Screw Natal, make a modular 360 pad. Allow both analog sticks to be swapped for touchpads and trackballs, and you have better FPS and RTS control in the living room.

Case
-Microsoft should not be allowed to design cases anymore. Just get a decent mid-tower case and etch a big X in the window.

[xr50r]

A mid tower case would be way too big for a console. It works for a pc sitting under a desk, but most people, like myself, keep their consoles in an entertainment center and don't want it taking t much space. They just need to learn how to cool their machines properly.

[NayusDante]

Here (http://www.newegg.com/Store/SubCategory.aspx?SubCategory=690&name=HTPC-Media-Center-Cases)'s some nice cases.

http://c1.neweggimages.com/NeweggImage/productimage/11-121-027-03.jpg

They're definitely a little bigger than the 360. The issue is, that's how big it has to be for adequite cooling. If they put the 360 in one of these, it would probably be rock solid. There's even a company (http://www.quietpc.com/gb-en-gbp/products/gaming/quiet-xbox360) doing this sort of thing.

http://www.quietpc.com/files/images/products/xbox-elite.jpg

[TonyTheTiger]

Optical Drive
-DVD for the THIRD time? Even Sega, the bumbling failure of CD systems didn't use the same format on three consoles. Even SD cards or USB media would have been an upgrade, since those can easily hold more than 9gb of data, and their prices are rapidly falling. Unless the DVD drive is for legacy compatibility, they're killing themselves.

Operating System
-Put Windows 7 on it! Simply include a read-only partition with the backup image, and let it replace the PC! I would GLADLY replace my desktop gaming rig with an equivalent gaming console if it were a full-fledged PC. Think about what a standardized machine could do for PC gaming!

Controller
-Screw Natal, make a modular 360 pad. Allow both analog sticks to be swapped for touchpads and trackballs, and you have better FPS and RTS control in the living room.

This is what's important:


RELEASE & PRICING

Microsoft plans on a Q4 2010 simultaneous worldwide release. The company is targeting a sub $300 price point.

Given the economic situation, nobody wants to start running that tech race again. I think keeping things relatively inexpensive is a good move despite the fact that I think Q4 2010 is a little too soon for the 360's successor.

As for the console replacing the PC, it probably won't happen even if they wanted it to. The 90s were full of "entertainment center" electronics and all in one gadgets. None of them ever really set the world on fire. All it ends up doing is shooting the price up scaring away customers who'd buy it for its "main" purpose.

And I wouldn't worry too much about Natal being the exclusive interface. If Nintendo wasn't ballsy enough to try it then MS sure as hell wouldn't be. Now mouse/keyboard support, however, is something I can see being implemented.

[Enigmus]

If they'd stop being so cheap and just upgrade the cooling system on the 360, I'd be happy. And so would millions of others who have had multiple Xbox 360s die from overheating.

It's not just the cooling. it's also the cheap solder on the board.

[kedawa]

If MS does release a successor next year, it damn well better be backwards compatible with both hardware and software.

It's already an established fact that the main problem with the 360 is that the x-clamp used to attach the cooling system expands too much, causing the board to warp and pop the BGA connections on the GPU. The newer chips don't heat up as much so it is less of a problem with new consoles, but it still happens.

[NayusDante]

Supposedly (don't hold me to this, I forget the source), they're going for "forwards compatibility." Once the new system's dev kits make their way to developers, there's supposedly a format to do software that will run on both 360 and the new hardware, with more features and detail on the newer hardware. The idea being to continue support for 360 owners into the next generation, essentially the opposite of what Sony has done with PS2 compatibility.


As far as Natal is concerned, I'm very concerned. Has anyone considered the implications of such an intelligent camera (moreso than the regular one they have), placed where it can watch your family?

http://artfiles.art.com/images/-/Big-Brother-is-Watching-You-Poster-Card-C10204521.jpeg

[parallaxscroll]

I don't believe this 'Xbox 360 Turbo' will be a true successor to Xbox 360 (the Xbox3 will be far more powerful and is a few more years away) but more like an upgrade. The question is, how much of an upgrade. Probably something like DS to DSi, GameBoy to GameBoy Color, GameCube to Wii, TurboGrafx-16 to SuperGrafx, etc. So probably not something like a generational leap like GameBoy to GBA, or Genesis 32X. That 32X upgrade was something that was actually a very large leap over Genesis (40 times on paper) even though developers didn't push it very hard and it failed. I'm expecting Xbox 360 Turbo to be 2 ~ 4 times more powerful than Xbox 360 overall. A decent upgrade that developers will really love.

Now with this upgraded 360 coming in a little over 1 year, the next-gen Xbox3 is probably going to be a little farther away, like 2012 or 2013. Maybe not even until 2015 if Microsoft sticks to what they said this last week.
Xbox 360 Turbo might be the way that Microsoft can keep this generation going another 5 years (in 2010 Xbox 360 will be 5 years old). Or I could be entirely wrong.

[Steve W]

As far as Natal is concerned, I'm very concerned. Has anyone considered the implications of such an intelligent camera (moreso than the regular one they have), placed where it can watch your family?
What makes me think it would be a hit is because of the 'attention whore' socially retarded kids growing up today. Social networking sites like Twitter and Facebook, countless junk videos of kids talking about anything on YouTube, the fact that you rarely see teenagers *not* staring at their cellphone screens anymore. Kids don't seem to be able to do anything by themselves anymore, there's no social independence. Broadband internet access has come a long way since the original Xbox's launch, couple that with a new Xbox Satan (anyone misread that when they see 'Natal'?) with the special camera, and then Xbox Live with new social networking style sections for video chat and such, and they could have a winner on their hands that would really appeal to teenagers, their main demographic. Microsoft is practically in a league of their own as far as ripping off other's ideas, they could take all sorts of social networking ideas from other sites, incorporate them in countless ways into Xbox Live utilizing the camera, and hit every teenager or college student's proverbial G-spot.

[Sonicwolf]

What makes me think it would be a hit is because of the 'attention whore' socially retarded kids growing up today. Social networking sites like Twitter and Facebook, countless junk videos of kids talking about anything on YouTube, the fact that you rarely see teenagers *not* staring at their cellphone screens anymore. Kids don't seem to be able to do anything by themselves anymore, there's no social independence. Broadband internet access has come a long way since the original Xbox's launch, couple that with a new Xbox Satan (anyone misread that when they see 'Natal'?) with the special camera, and then Xbox Live with new social networking style sections for video chat and such, and they could have a winner on their hands that would really appeal to teenagers, their main demographic. Microsoft is practically in a league of their own as far as ripping off other's ideas, they could take all sorts of social networking ideas from other sites, incorporate them in countless ways into Xbox Live utilizing the camera, and hit every teenager or college student's proverbial G-spot.

Well that and pump more money out of people with extra features on XBL.

[kedawa]

Old tech + gimmicky control scheme = BIG$
I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out to be true.

[NayusDante]

If they're indeed going for the mass market, it's actually going to be a difficult battle. Nintendo pretty much dominates that, so they're coming up against tough competition. How do you convince Wii owners to buy a new console?

If it's a jump up from the 360, it will at least satiate the hardcore crowd. I just wonder of Microsoft and Sony will inadvertantly abdicate their thrones, only to let someone else jump in and take the hardcore crowd.

[Iron Draggon]

I'm more interested in what this means for the Wii... will they release Wii HD in the same timeframe to compete with the new 360? sounds like they pretty much have to, or risk losing customers to MS... I'm ready for Wii HD now!

[kedawa]

I don't think MS will have a problem competing with the Wii as long as they can sell casual gamers on the joys of online multiplayer.
If there's one weakness in nintendo's strategy, it's their backward-ass online strategy.

[Zap!]

Maybe I missed it, but what will the media be? They can't use Blu-Ray, so what then? Can't use DVD's, 4.7 gigs in puny. Even dual layer is nothing.

[Sonicwolf]

Maybe I missed it, but what will the media be? They can't use Blu-Ray, so what then? Can't use DVD's, 4.7 gigs in puny. Even dual layer is nothing.

They would probably use... HDDVDs. No really, think about it. If they cant use Blu Ray, and DVD is too puny, why not go with what already exists? There is no sense in wasting tons of money developing yet another proprietery format for game discs. Not like it would play movies in HDDVD LOL

[j_factor]

HD-DVD drives are no longer manufactured, though. There are other (somewhat obscure) formats in development, like DMD. I don't know that developing a proprietary format is really all that expensive, either. How much did it cost Sega to come up with GD-ROMs?

I see flash memory cards as a potential future format, but I don't think it'll be cheap enough by 2011.

[heybtbm]

How much did it cost Sega to come up with GD-ROMs?

Their entire console division.

[Sonicwolf]

Their entire console division.

LOL

Oh you just had to say it.

[TonyTheTiger]

Generally speaking, a dual layer DVD will provide enough space. The only caveat will be multiple game discs for those FMV happy RPGs. If I'm Microsoft I'm going to do a cost/benefit analysis and ask myself whether the extra storage space of a new format is worth a $100+ premium on the console when most developers won't need the extra gigs.

The problem with going to a format like flash memory or any kind of proprietary format is that the console ends up taking a step backward. If you go with DVD you might not be able to say the consumers can watch movies in the newest high tech format but you can at least say that they can play most of what they've already got and the new machine either exceeds or matches the last one in every category. Taking away DVD playing capability will appear to be a huge step backwards when your last two machines were able to do it just fine.

Admittedly, I don't think many people are wanting of a new DVD player. But while it is highly unlikely that it would be a deal breaker for most people, from a PR perspective it would sound a lot like what Nintendo and Sony have been doing with their handhelds as of late with this zero sum game of "get this but lose that."

[Letiumtide]

Sounds dubious to me, especially since 360 games already run at 1080p, why would they announce a processor that runs at 1080p and say that their old one ran at 720p when that's a lie?

Regardless, they announced more or less that Natal would work with existing Xbox units, in the Milo demonstration there is a running developer 360 right beside the TV.

I think it's all rumour and speculation.

[j_factor]

Sounds dubious to me, especially since 360 games already run at 1080p, why would they announce a processor that runs at 1080p and say that their old one ran at 720p when that's a lie?

Actually that's true. The Xbox 360 hardware only goes up to 720p natively. 1080p is only output by scaling; internally, the resolution is still 720p. You probably don't remember, but at launch the system only output 720p, and 1080p was only added via a firmware update about a year after launch.

[ProgrammingAce]

Actually that's true. The Xbox 360 hardware only goes up to 720p natively. 1080p is only output by scaling; internally, the resolution is still 720p. You probably don't remember, but at launch the system only output 720p, and 1080p was only added via a firmware update about a year after launch.

Depends on the game these days. Some games can run natively at 1080p. Some games (like Halo 3) run at really stupid resolutions somewhere in the middle (1152x640)

[NayusDante]

Depends on the game these days. Some games can run natively at 1080p. Some games (like Halo 3) run at really stupid resolutions somewhere in the middle (1152x640)

That's not in the middle. That's below 720p (1280x720@60fps progressive).

1080p is actually pretty impressive for gaming. Rendering a 1920x1080 image at 60fps takes a decent bit of power, and it's pretty good for PCs right now. If Microsoft can make good on that claim, rendering natively at 1080p, that's a good little box. Then again, remember how Sony acted like a kid who just learned a new word? All that talk about the PS3 outputting 1080p, and look how many games we have that actually do it. I actually prefer the upscaled image of my Xbox 360 to the 720p native image from my PS3.

[Sabz5150]

Their entire console division.

Quoted for the sad, painful truth.

[kedawa]

Maybe I missed it, but what will the media be? They can't use Blu-Ray, so what then? Can't use DVD's, 4.7 gigs in puny. Even dual layer is nothing.

I don't know why you think they can't use Blu-Ray. Sony wants it to be the new optical standard. Refusing to license it to MS would not only be a dick move, but also illegal in most of the world, as it would be an anti-competitive practice.
Also, 360 uses 9GB dual layer DVDs.

[NayusDante]

Their entire console division.

Hey, GD-ROM powered a lot of arcade machines!

[The 1 2 P]

I really doubt they will abandon the current 360 for a newer model this early on, especially with the 30 million customers they have. Natal is just going to be an additional controller interface add on. Theres a reason why they said it will work with every 360 ever made and thats because it's just an add on, NOT a brand new console.

Pricing also seems to be an issue. Something this innovative can't be cheap but pricing it more than $100 will be the kiss of death at retail. And for those of you who think an $80-100 price tag won't fly with the general public either, allow me to remind you that the Wii Fit balance board cost $90 and has no problem at all selling out in stores. Add to that the fact that Natal camera will be able to do much more than the balance board and theres Microsoft's argument for a $100 price point.

[Steve W]

They would probably use... HDDVDs. No really, think about it. If they cant use Blu Ray, and DVD is too puny, why not go with what already exists? There is no sense in wasting tons of money developing yet another proprietery format for game discs. Not like it would play movies in HDDVD LOL

Really think about that. All the millions of dollars of research and development have already gone into the HD-DVD format, so there's no cost to engineer a new format. Then there's the fact that it's been killed off by its parent companies, which means that the rights to the technology would be fairly cheap to buy. Then think about the fact that there are no HD-DVD recorders in computers, and there's probably not a whole lot of people with access to HD-DVD mastering hardware. So you have a format that can't easily be pirated like DVDs can, or Blu-Rays since computers are beginning to trickle out on the market with Blu-Ray drives and eventually they'll be cracked (or have they already? I don't keep up with that kind of thing).

The HD-DVD format may be the best thing for Microsoft at this point to keep piracy at bay.

[NayusDante]

I really doubt they will abandon the current 360 for a newer model this early on, especially with the 30 million customers they have. Natal is just going to be an additional controller interface add on. Theres a reason why they said it will work with every 360 ever made and thats because it's just an add on, NOT a brand new console.

Pricing also seems to be an issue. Something this innovative can't be cheap but pricing it more than $100 will be the kiss of death at retail. And for those of you who think an $80-100 price tag won't fly with the general public either, allow me to remind you that the Wii Fit balance board cost $90 and has no problem at all selling out in stores. Add to that the fact that Natal camera will be able to do much more than the balance board and theres Microsoft's argument for a $100 price point.

Actually, I can't see it costing very much to produce. Everything it does is going to be software. From the looks of it, it takes two (or more) video cameras and the image is analyzed to track the body. These cameras AREN'T expensive. The DSi has TWO of them, and it's not even $50 more than the DS. We're not talking about 9 megapixel SLR stuff here, they're going to use what you get on a phone. Most of the price will probably be the bundled software.

[CosmicMonkey]

I think it'll be a redesigned Xbox 360 packaged with a standard pad and the Natal unit. The name will also be changed to Xbox Natal, or whatever Natal ends up being called. The 'Xbox Revolution' maybe? The Natal unit will obviously be sold separately in some sort of starter pack for current 360 owners.

A spec bump would be interesting, but newer games would still need to work on current hardware otherwise you'd fracture the userbase. If they used a faster version of the current 500MHz ATI Xenos in the new machine they could manage to make games work on all 360s. It'd sort of be like those few N64 games that worked on a stock unit, but were much prettier with the 4MB RAM pack installed.

[JunkTheMagicDragon]

These cameras AREN'T expensive. The DSi has TWO of them, and it's not even $50 more than the DS. We're not talking about 9 megapixel SLR stuff here, they're going to use what you get on a phone. Most of the price will probably be the bundled software.

these aren't crummy phone cameras like you get on the dsi, although that seems to be a common misconception. this isn't an eyetoy, either.


The device features an "RGB camera, depth sensor, multi-array microphone, and custom processor running proprietary software", which provides full-body 3D motion capture, facial recognition, and voice recognition capabilities.....
The depth sensor consists of an infrared projector combined with a monochrome CMOS sensor, and allows the Project Natal sensor to see in 3D under any ambient light conditions.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Natal

[The 1 2 P]

Actually, I can't see it costing very much to produce. Everything it does is going to be software. From the looks of it, it takes two (or more) video cameras and the image is analyzed to track the body. These cameras AREN'T expensive. The DSi has TWO of them, and it's not even $50 more than the DS. We're not talking about 9 megapixel SLR stuff here, they're going to use what you get on a phone. Most of the price will probably be the bundled software.

Yeah but the DSi also has built in wireless and Microsoft sells wireless adapters for $99. As much as I like Microsoft I hate how they overprice some of their accessories and this new camera won't be any different.

[parallaxscroll]

This just in: There will be NO *upgraded* Xbox coming in 2010.

This does not rule out a new Xbox SKU with Natal packed in standard.

Teamxbox claims to have the first details on the true NEXT generation Xbox, which they will be posting in the coming weeks. The next-gen Xbox will not launch until a certain type of televison becomes more widespread.

http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/19960/Rumor-New-Xbox-Console-in-2010-We-Tell-You-the-Truth/

[j_factor]

I don't buy that for a second. That technology is way off from wide adoption, if it even catches on at all.

[Zap!]

Generally speaking, a dual layer DVD will provide enough space. The only caveat will be multiple game discs for those FMV happy RPGs. If I'm Microsoft I'm going to do a cost/benefit analysis and ask myself whether the extra storage space of a new format is worth a $100+ premium on the console when most developers won't need the extra gigs.

The problem with going to a format like flash memory or any kind of proprietary format is that the console ends up taking a step backward. If you go with DVD you might not be able to say the consumers can watch movies in the newest high tech format but you can at least say that they can play most of what they've already got and the new machine either exceeds or matches the last one in every category. Taking away DVD playing capability will appear to be a huge step backwards when your last two machines were able to do it just fine.

Admittedly, I don't think many people are wanting of a new DVD player. But while it is highly unlikely that it would be a deal breaker for most people, from a PR perspective it would sound a lot like what Nintendo and Sony have been doing with their handhelds as of late with this zero sum game of "get this but lose that."

Define "enough." A single sided dual layer is 8.54 GB, while a rare doble sided dual layer is 17.08 GB. For a system coming out next year that will have to compete until 2015/2016, you're going to need 50 GB at the very minimum, preferably 75-100 GB.

[TonyTheTiger]

For a system coming out next year that will have to compete until 2015/2016, you're going to need 50 GB at the very minimum, preferably 75-100 GB.

To store what? The reason games are strung along multiple discs on the 360 is due to high definition FMV in the games that have it. Take that out of the picture and I don't see what could possibly require 50 gigs unless the devs really hate compressing their textures and sound.

[Zap!]

To store what? The reason games are strung along multiple discs on the 360 is due to high definition FMV in the games that have it. Take that out of the picture and I don't see what could possibly require 50 gigs unless the devs really hate compressing their textures and sound.

I have been around for a long time, I know the "to store what?" reply and have been hearing for years. In 1994, I bought a 1.26 gig HD. "For what?", they said? 500 megs was enough. In 1999 or so I bought a 40 gig HD. "What are you storing with that?", they said. In 2005, I bought a 300 gig. "Why so big?" My reply then was "Because a terrabyte isn't commercially available yet."

You don't see what could possibly require 50 gigs? In 1990 they didn't see what would requre more than a mere 10 MEGS (not gigs). Wait until the cycle of systems after 2010/2012. By 2020, anything less than a full terra will be unacceptable.

[Sonicwolf]

I have been around for a long time, I know the "to store what?" reply and have been hearing for years. In 1994, I bought a 1.26 gig HD. "For what?", they said? 500 megs was enough. In 1999 or so I bought a 40 gig HD. "What are you storing with that?", they said. In 2005, I bought a 300 gig. "Why so big?" My reply then was "Because a terrabyte isn't commercially available yet."

You don't see what could possibly require 50 gigs? In 1990 they didn't see what would requre more than a mere 10 MEGS (not gigs). Wait until the cycle of systems after 2010/2012. By 2020, anything less than a full terra will be unacceptable.


I remember when my family and I found it troublesome to fill up a 1.5GB hard drive. LOL

Things just keep growing so fast. Just 6 years ago I was happy with a 20 gig.

[Steve W]

I remember when my family and I found it troublesome to fill up a 1.5GB hard drive. LOL

Things just keep growing so fast. Just 6 years ago I was happy with a 20 gig.

The thing is, my iTunes backup folder is now around 100 gigabytes. In a decade I can see myself having a 20 terabyte USB flash drive on a keychain, and complaining that it doesn't hold enough anymore.

And on that note, I give you the song, Hey Hey 16K. http://www2.b3ta.com/heyhey16k/

[j_factor]

I have been around for a long time, I know the "to store what?" reply and have been hearing for years. In 1994, I bought a 1.26 gig HD. "For what?", they said? 500 megs was enough. In 1999 or so I bought a 40 gig HD. "What are you storing with that?", they said. In 2005, I bought a 300 gig. "Why so big?" My reply then was "Because a terrabyte isn't commercially available yet."

You don't see what could possibly require 50 gigs? In 1990 they didn't see what would requre more than a mere 10 MEGS (not gigs). Wait until the cycle of systems after 2010/2012. By 2020, anything less than a full terra will be unacceptable.

Hard drives aren't the same as media formats. Hard drives have continually increased as we increase the types of things we put on them. A disc format for games is still just for a game.

There comes a point where it levels off. Look at music, for example. CD's were introduced a long time ago, and they're pretty much "it" as far as physical media goes. SACD and DVD-audio (or anything similar) will never take off because the benefits require high-end equipment and optimal listening conditions, and even then the difference isn't that great to most people's ears. Similarly, I remember seeing 64kps mp3's a long time ago, and they were awful. Now most people don't see a reason to go higher than 256, and it's been that way for quite a while. There's FLAC, which has been around for years, if you're serious about audio quality. There's nothing beyond FLAC (there are similar lossless codecs, but they're on the same level in terms of quality and file size). We're "done"; it ain't getting any bigger.

Something like that will happen with video in the foreseeable future. We can go beyond 1080p, but eventually resolutions will be so high that making them higher would be beyond most people's vision ability to discern.

[TonyTheTiger]

I have been around for a long time, I know the "to store what?" reply and have been hearing for years. In 1994, I bought a 1.26 gig HD. "For what?", they said? 500 megs was enough. In 1999 or so I bought a 40 gig HD. "What are you storing with that?", they said. In 2005, I bought a 300 gig. "Why so big?" My reply then was "Because a terrabyte isn't commercially available yet."

You don't see what could possibly require 50 gigs? In 1990 they didn't see what would requre more than a mere 10 MEGS (not gigs). Wait until the cycle of systems after 2010/2012. By 2020, anything less than a full terra will be unacceptable.

As stated above, a HDD is hardly an equivalent analogy. I'm sure you used those drives for many, many purposes and constantly added new stuff without deleting other stuff. When you make a game you generally don't add stuff to the media once it ships out. People will work within their limitations and always manage to use what they're given. If you give somebody three months to write a term paper, he will take three months. If you give him three weeks, he'll be done in three weeks.

And of all potential bottlenecks and technical problems, storage space is rarely the most immediate limitation. Time, money, and other related technologies are. Even the ground level things like artistic ability matters more. You could give current developers a 1,000 TB format to work with and they wouldn't be pumping out games that look and sound head and shoulders above what we're currently getting. What they would do is not compress anything and pad the disc to screw up potential pirates who will shit themselves when they see a torrent of a file far larger than their HDD can hold.

[Nature Boy]

Why hasn't anybody else suggested that the next gen Xbox is download only instead of arguing over whether it'll be BluRay, HD-DVD, DVD, or who knows what else?

Maybe it keeps a DVD device so that it's BC with the original Xbox, but there really aren't a lot of downsides to downloading from their point of view, or the publisher's. Less piracy. No re-sale games. Plus they can measure sales data exactly and market much more effectively.

I've seen Patapon 2 for sale in stores, with a note saying that the game isn't actually in the box - that you'll have to download it. I think that's the future my friends, not a debate over discs.

[NayusDante]

And on that note, I give you the song, Hey Hey 16K. http://www2.b3ta.com/heyhey16k/

But that's all about RAM. RAM only limits how much content can be in use at one time, storage is independent.

DVD9 is definitely a lot of data, but look at the limitations. Take Fallout 3 for example. F3 fits on one disc, and look how much content there is. Still, if it were on a 20gb disc, do you think they would have made more varied rocks? How about some more character models? Maybe they could have more than 8 voice actors (still better than Oblivion's 5 or so).

We still have a lot of room for expansion. Modern game textures really aren't that big, so that can get a lot better. The problem is, photograph-resolution images aren't small, they're several megabytes each. Instead of that wall texture being 512kb, it's going to be 5mb. Multiply that by 1000 textures, and you're running out of space for everything else. Audio can't get much better, and it's not worth the indiscernible quality gains. Geometry will gradually increase, but not so much as bumpmaps and such, which will also reach photograph-resolutions.

In essence, another generation with DVD as the primary reading medium won't give us better looking games. They might play better with the new controls, but the content is going to be the same as what we're seeing now, just rendered at a higher resolution. For comparison, play Doom at 1920x1080 with modern mouse-and-keyboard controls.


Why hasn't anybody else suggested that the next gen Xbox is download only instead of arguing over whether it'll be BluRay, HD-DVD, DVD, or who knows what else?

Because your ISP doesn't want people downloading 25gb archives. Time Warner is seriously testing out 5 and 10gb monthly limits out west.

[Nature Boy]

Because your ISP doesn't want people downloading 25gb archives. Time Warner is seriously testing out 5 and 10gb monthly limits out west.

Games don't *need* to be 25 GB though. And as has been mentioned (though I don't know why anyone *cares* personally), it would necessitate streamlining the code to be as small as possible, as there are tangible gains.

Maybe it would simply mean the end of the cut-scene (Kojima just felt a chill I'd bet...).

And maybe with compression (totally wild guess) you wouldn't have to download the full 25 GB anyway.

[NayusDante]

Cut-scenes are still important. What they need to do is switch everything to in-engine cut-scenes, rather than FMV. FMV disrupts gameplay. I don't care if there's more visual detail in FMV, just work in the limits of the in-engine graphics and keep things consistent.

[TonyTheTiger]

But that's all about RAM. RAM only limits how much content can be in use at one time, storage is independent.

RAM has actually been more of a thorn than storage. I'd make a bet that if you polled 100 experienced developers and asked them to choose between having twice as much RAM or twice as much storage space to work with, they'd pick the former.


DVD9 is definitely a lot of data, but look at the limitations. Take Fallout 3 for example. F3 fits on one disc, and look how much content there is. Still, if it were on a 20gb disc, do you think they would have made more varied rocks? How about some more character models? Maybe they could have more than 8 voice actors (still better than Oblivion's 5 or so).

Maybe. That's the thing. This is all a big maybe because storage space is not the only variable. It's not the only (nor even the most important) limitation. And if I'm MS I'm going to ask myself if the extra $100+ per console for higher capacity media is going to actually mean something when I might be sacrificing sales in the process. Just by comparing the 360 and PS3 we can already see that storage capacity alone doesn't mean jack. So I would ask myself if the storage is really going to matter or if I'll get the same games overall with DVD. If the extra space came free then it would be an easy choice but right now it's really not.


Maybe it would simply mean the end of the cut-scene (Kojima just felt a chill I'd bet...).

Cut scenes, when they're real time, aren't actually all that space costly. It's Square-Enix and Mistwalker who would feel the burn.

But, really, I don't see why we "need" anything. Consoles certainly don't "need" any one thing to survive. A Gamecube with wavy wands and a handheld with two screens are currently beating the living shit out of everything else.

I see it like I do the space in a fridge. You ever go out to buy milk and come home and find there's no room? What do you do? You don't just leave the milk out. You make room. You force things to the back to increase space, you rearrange things to make the order more efficient, etc. Now what would happen if you had a fridge 5 times the size in your kitchen? Wow, that's a lot of space. You'll never have to worry about running out of room now.

But how much food are you going to buy? The monetary requirement (for the food and the giant fridge), the effort requirement of going to the store all the time and lugging home bags and bags of food, etc.? The cost/benefit analysis says that because you aren't likely to buy 15 gallons of milk, the extra cost for the super fridge is not warranted. Now you don't want a mini-fridge because you might want to put a turkey in there once in a while. But when you go fridge shopping you might not want to spend the extra money on the super gigantic one that can fit an entire cow.

[parallaxscroll]

Next-gen Xbox3/PS4 consoles should be powerful enough that all cinematic intros & cut-scenes could be shown with real-time in-engine visual. Much like like Resident Evil 5 for instance, it has amazingly good real-time cutscenes.

The next-next consoles should be powerful enough to push in-game graphics that rival some CGI. I don't mean ultra high-end, high-budget CGI used in feature films, but perhaps the level of CGI used in PS2/Xbox game intros. Even though PS2/Xbox CGI was played back at 480i/480p resolution, if realtime graphics could be as good, that would represent much better graphics than what Xbox360/PS3 currently do in realtime at HD 720p/1080p. It's not about screen resolution, it's about the detail that can be put into game character models & environments. It's about the lighting, the pixel shaders, textures, level of anti-aliasing, motion-blur and post-processing effects. As well as framerate.

[Sonicwolf]

It's not about screen resolution, it's about the detail that can be put into game character models & environments. It's about the lighting, the pixel shaders, textures, level of anti-aliasing, motion-blur and post-processing effects. As well as framerate.

Its also about making goddamned good quality hardware that isnt broken so easily. Im looking at you Microsoft.

I swear this is the worst generation of video game consoles for reliability.

[Nature Boy]

Cut-scenes are still important. What they need to do is switch everything to in-engine cut-scenes, rather than FMV. FMV disrupts gameplay. I don't care if there's more visual detail in FMV, just work in the limits of the in-engine graphics and keep things consistent.

I didn't mean to derail things *too* much (though I readily admit my distaste for cut-scenes).

I don't care if they're in-engine or FMV - if I'm not playing, I'm annoyed. Half Life 2 did it well - yeah you're not actually playing per-se, but it sure beat the mess that was MGS 2 (my personal 'these cut-scenes are driving me nuts, I'm not playing MGS after this' game).

You can tell a good story without them. These aren't movies, they're games. When we're talking about being creative, let's talk about telling a story using the medium, rather than trying to mimic another (movies).

[NayusDante]

Well, I actually loved MGS2 BECAUSE of its cut-scenes. The gameplay was solid enough, but the cut-scenes really made the story great. If you're still running around while people are talking, you can't take the story seriously. When it's something halfway between a game and a movie, and can succeed as both, I think it's definitely justified.

Xenosaga, however, felt a bit weaker as a game and the whole experience felt like watching anime. I thought it was pointless that they actually commissioned an entire anime for it...

[TonyTheTiger]

The problem is that it's actually very difficult to tell a story more complicated then "evil reptile, stolen princess, go save her" without using a cut scene. Even "our princess is in another castle" can qualify as a cut scene. It might be mercifully short, but it's there. At some point, when you want the player to understand something you don't have many options beyond making the player sit there and listen.

[Nature Boy]

The problem is that it's actually very difficult to tell a story more complicated then "evil reptile, stolen princess, go save her" without using a cut scene. Even "our princess is in another castle" can qualify as a cut scene. It might be mercifully short, but it's there. At some point, when you want the player to understand something you don't have many options beyond making the player sit there and listen.

Like I said, I didn't intend to sidetrack the conversation, but I want to say this: the beauty of a well written comic is how well it uses the medium to tell the story (like the Watchmen say).

I'd love to see more well written video games that focus on using the medium to tell the story and do not rely on another medium ('movies') to do so.

[Icarus Moonsight]

I agree Nature Boy, 100%

If that is the case with the next Xbox (parallaxscroll's post w/ linky) I'm glad I didn't waste money and buy an HDTV yet. O_O Slow it the fuck down MS.

[GameBoyGeek]

Goodbye in-depth video games, hello quick money grubbing ala shovelware motion sensing horsecrap.

Most in depth games waved bye bye a long time ago.

[TonyTheTiger]

Like I said, I didn't intend to sidetrack the conversation, but I want to say this: the beauty of a well written comic is how well it uses the medium to tell the story (like the Watchmen say).

I'd love to see more well written video games that focus on using the medium to tell the story and do not rely on another medium ('movies') to do so.

I'm not sure how possible that is as there are only so many ways to convey something. You can "let the game speak for itself" so to speak. Mega Man doesn't need much dialogue to establish what plot is. But if the designers intend to convey a plot that has more nuance there aren't many options beyond "make the player read it," "make the player listen to it," or "make the player watch it." You can't really communicate any other way. The alternative is to have a story straight forward enough so that it's obvious (ala Mario) or not have a story at all (ala Tetris). You could pull a Star Fox and have the dialogue happen along with the action but that's probably not easy to do with every genre.

I suppose games like Mass Effect sort of use the medium's strengths as the story is dependent on the choices you make but that's pretty game specific, as well. Not every game's plot is going to (or even should) be that open ended. So cut scenes have become a necessary evil. When they're good, everything is great. When they're self indulgent nonsense, they suck. When they can't be skipped, they're annoying. I think the bigger problem is not so much the cut scene itself but the fact that video game cut scenes are sometimes poorly written and poorly paced. You need to tell a story, fine. Cut scenes are probably necessary. But we don't need a massive 20 minute long scene right before the last boss that explains the entire plot of the game.

[NayusDante]

Mega Man doesn't need much dialogue to establish what plot is.

That's because for 1, 3, and 4, the story was in the manual. You don't want to go back to THAT now, do you? Unless you read the manuals, you wouldn't know about Wily and Light working together or what's up with Dr. Cossack. When the series actually did add dialog, it was never very substantial, and it should have just become a manga or an anime, because it has so much story potential.

The "Star Fox" approach only seems to work in a more arcade-style game. Gradius V executed it nicely.

I can understand and almost justify the criticism though. I still fall into the "cut-scenes are good" camp. Lately, when I'm playing an RPG, I find myself asking if the gameplay is there just to pad the story? Cloud has to infiltrate the Shinra building, but not before he fights "evil houses" in the trash-laden alleyways. Am I playing the game because fighting these houses is fun, and they help me gain experience points, or am I playing to get to that next dialog to learn more about what's going on. I suppose you could apply the "reward" principal here. WoW players log crazy hours because they're rewarded with items and experience, which has more meaning than the story. I'm more motivated to prepare for a boss fight in FF because of the story that I'll get afterwards. Without the story, I'm just playing the stats, and I'd be better off rolling multi-sided dice with some friends.

As for Metal Gear, I'm seeing two sides of the fanbase. There's a group that likes the cut-scenes and the story, but there's also a group that seems more drawn to the "military" aspect of it. My friends always seemed to like it for the themes and action, but when I finally picked up the series, the story and atmosphere were what hooked me. I have no skill at stealth games whatsoever, but I work my way through because it's a great story and has amazing presentation. If you don't like the cut-scenes, then you probably shouldn't be playing Metal Gear.

If you want to see modern games that balance action and story well, look at Oblivion and Fallout 3. There's not a lot of dialog in the story, but that's because you can make your character whatever you want. Since there's no way to tailor the story to your character, it has to be generic and there can't be any meaningful story told.

This is just the way it is. A story is something that needs to be taken in and understood. By its very nature, it can't be meaningful if it's secondary to the gameplay, it has to be equal.

[TonyTheTiger]

I'm not saying it's bad to use cut scenes. In fact, I'm saying it's damn near necessary to some extent. I do wish, however, certain games would be a little more consistent with how they distributed the sequences. Chrono Cross is a perfect example of a game that tosses 80% of the plot at you like two hours before you beat the game. It's confusing, especially since the writing is incredibly obtuse. Metal Gear has had the same problem. Proper pacing in games is just as important as proper pacing in other mediums.