Mame Cab Cpu Question

[StonedMason]

I tried a google on this one and got a general understanding

I have converted a old turtles cab and have everything ready to go apart from buying the PC for the emulation. Im looking to buy a intel dual core as i know mame has code in it to use both cores and i have read that lots of L2 cache helps in a big way.

I know the cache is split over the cores so 4mb L2 is split 2mb to core one and 2mb to core two. Does mame use both 2mb L2 caches totally and would have increased power if i spent more money on a 6mb chip (2x 3mb) ?

How about the Quad cores as some have 12mb L2 cache? Im guessing each core has 3mb but does mame just use the cache on just the 2 cores its using?!?! Im thinking its not worth the money?!?!?

Sorry about this but i thought you guys might have a better understanding of performance when it comes to mame and cpus

cheers guys

[skaar]

You're throwing way more horsepower into it than it needs. Older PCs can run pretty much anything just fine. Save your money and try an old box first.

[Kid Ice]

Yeah, I run almost everything fine on a P4, granted I haven't upgraded my MAME in a couple years. I guess you would want something more up to date to run 3D games....IMO for those games you're better off getting the console versions.

[XYXZYZ]

What kind of games do you want to play? For the most part you don't need much power, but if you want to do stuff like Dreamcast emulation, a beefy CPU certainly doesn't hurt. It may also save you the trouble of upgrading in the future, as new games get added; for example there isn't a processor on the market yet that's powerful enough to run MAME's Gauntlet Legends emulation at full speed.

My MAME machines use nothing more powerful than an Athlon 3400, which does everything I need it to.

[aclbandit]

MAME apparently does almost all of its "stuff" in the processor, and doesn't depend on much else (so long as you have enough RAM, HDD space, etc., but still, you don't need much.)

It depends on what you're doing. If you're running Pac-Man, you don't need anything at all awesome. If you're running (like I plan to) some Area 51, Dead or Alive, and other such "prettiness," you'll need something faster. For example, on my dual-core 2.2GHz lappy, Area 51 runs fine and DoA is crap. On my quad-core 2.8GHz desktop, Area51 is flawless and DoA is almost acceptable.

Go for what you think you need, but keep in mind that everything you need it to do will basically be dependent upon the processor.

[skaar]

Keep in mind too this is a classic gaming board... so while most of the people here still play the recent stuff the focus is on older *ahem* better games ;)

[Ed Oscuro]

What kind of games do you want to play?
Also do you enjoy playing without dropped frames

P4 should be just fine for most pre-3D systems (i.e. up to about 1993), after that things start getting more demanding in a hurry. You don't need to fuss over specs, as the higher-end Core 2 Duos probably won't give you enough of a performance boost over the "base" chips. A E6600 will do decent-ish on some early 3D systems; the E8400 should be much better, but they're also much more expensive (the E8400 is $160 at this writing). I believe I get decent frame rates, bordering on solid, with the E6600 in many of the early Midway 3D racers like Cruis'n titles or the Rush games, but I'm not sure if the E8500 would even those out. It would be a pretty expensive upgrade for just a few games, in my view.

Of course, there's plenty of games in MAME that you will not be able to run full-speed with current hardware (up to and including the Core i7 and all new stuff), no matter how much you overclock ;)

Edit: it's worth mentioning that while the second core of the C2D won't do anything directly for the MAME thread, it will let other stuff continue to run on the other core, which has the effect of freeing up the second core exclusively for MAME.

Dual cores are so cheap now that there's really no excuse for avoiding them. Much more efficient than older processors, and you can get them at a decent price.

[namzep]

It's also going to depend on what frontend he's planning on using. If he just uses something like Mame32, he's not going to need any real power for that. But some of those front ends need some pretty hoss systems to not run like a 90 year old.

[StonedMason]

Thanks for your input guys :)

I have run mame years ago on a old socket7 amd 200mhz cpu and loved the idea of being able to play all those classics i sunk coin after coin into of my parents hard earned money. I know mame can run on a low spec but i just wanted my cab to have a larger arsonal of games running at 100%. All my computers have been overclocked with water so i can hit high clock speeds with a dual core E6600 (oc 3.2ghz) and i know with a quad core Q6600 I could hit the same over clock.

Im not paying out for higher clock speeds as im overclocking in other words but i do need to pick a core 1st and i think what is important is how much mame can use a chosen core.

Im using a arcadeVGA graphics card with my standard res arcade monitor so i dont have massive direct X power but thats ok as im looking for MAME and console emulation. NES to Dreamcast would be cool but my main focus is having a cab with more arcade games running at 100% as possible.

I know that most game boards data is encoded for security and they have a chip on the board that would un encode this data on the fly. This is where mame takes a massive performance hit having to constantly unencode this using emulation on the fly as well as processing the un encoded data into sound and video. I heard this massive hit is reduced mainly in the L2 cache that comes on CPUs but no one has mentioned how much is needed.

Im going to bite the bullet next month with a quad core if i cant find information on this and go with the most L2 cache (more expensive) but im going to feel gutted if i find out its not worth the money.

btw i got 2 mag sticks for the CP and a load of buttons. I wanted the optical joysticks really to get more of a leaf feel. Does anyone know if its possible to get those leaf buttons anoymore? I made a CP years ago for MAME on my pc but the noise from the buttons and sticks removed alot of the enjoyment :(

sorry one more question to bother you with :) I was abotu to cut 8 holes for my buttons as i liked the x-arcade layout and thought that would cover all 8 buttons on a SNES pad... is there arcade games that actually use all 8? most games i played used 3 apart from a beat um up or two?!?!?

[StonedMason]

sorry and the ArcadeVGA graphics card is PCI-E so finding a old mobo is out the question so I really could do with Dual or Quad :|

[Ed Oscuro]

Again, buying a quad of any stripe for MAME would be a flagrant waste of your money, because the code MAME dedicates to a second thread has only the slightest impact on the other core - you'll be running so little on the second core that it will essentially sit unused most of the time. Just get the fastest dual core you can justify paying for. I'd go with the E8400 if I were making a MAME cab, maybe a E8600 for the extra clock but you'll be paying for it...still would (or should, I haven't tested it myself) provide some added framerate stability in mid-90s games though.


It's also going to depend on what frontend he's planning on using. If he just uses something like Mame32, he's not going to need any real power for that. But some of those front ends need some pretty hoss systems to not run like a 90 year old.
Which ones? All I know is that MAME Plus! needs to be configured right; it's actually slowed down by the hard drive / RAM + your choice of items for the list view mainly.

[aclbandit]

Again, buying a quad of any stripe for MAME would be a flagrant waste of your money, because the code MAME dedicates to a second thread has only the slightest impact on the other core - you'll be running so little on the second core that it will essentially sit unused most of the time.

Certainly. A dual-core is all you'll really ever need for MAME (at least so far); my use of a quad-core was only because that's what my computer has in it for video encoding, etc., not for MAME-ing. I've been looking pretty hard at building my own MAME cab, and I was actually looking at dual-cores (with lots of GHz and cache) for it, not quads.

[namzep]

Which ones? All I know is that MAME Plus! needs to be configured right; it's actually slowed down by the hard drive / RAM + your choice of items for the list view mainly.
I'm running a customed FE on my cab and it runs well enough with 4 GB of Ram and a 2.8 P4 (w/ hyper-threading). It will run a little slow at times but it uses videos when you go to select a game.

[StonedMason]

Cheers :)

Much happier now after your input. End of this month I will order the E8500 (3.16GHz) 1333FSB 6MB L2 Wolfdale with some quality RAM and OK Mobo.

I have a new question for you as its been melting my mellon for awhile now.

The Ipac!!

I have the 2 player Ipac and each player has a Coin and Start input. Makes sence as its like having a coin slot per player so i would be guessing the 4 player Ipac would have 4x Start and 4x Coin input. On my old CP i made i just used buttons for those inputs but now i have a cab with a coin mech?!?!?

The old turtles in time JAMMA cab im using has 4 start buttons but only one coin mech. The coin mech and all 4 start buttons run to a credit control board and then from the control board to the JAMMA board.

Im thinking you add money to the machine and the board counts up the amount of credits. Then pressing the either of the 4 start buttons alocates a coin/cred to that chosen player until the credits run out and then next time either of the 4 start buttons are pressed it would send a actual player start signal.

Ok im confusing myself but with only one coin mech and a crontrol board thats ment to issue out money to all 4 players its kinda confusing. Its just the Ipac has a coin input for each player and i would like to keep the CAB original as possible using that one coin mech... I have stored the original parts including the old CP in a safe place for when (if ever) i come to sell it so it can be restored to its original state.

I might try and scan the paperwork for you that came with the cab as it shows a diagram how everything connects together but no info on how one coin mech can issue credit to all 4 players.

[Flack]

Dunno if this helps, but the ipac has built-in short cuts for player credits. I believe if you hold down player 1 start and hit player one button 1, it coins up player 1. If you hold down player 2 start and hit player two's button #1, it coins up player 2.

I don't really understand what you are doing. If you are going to make a 4 player cabinet you'll need a 4 player ipac, which would solve your problem.

What is really confusing to me is, as a Konami 4 player cabinet I thought they all had 4 dedicated coin slots. My X-Men and my Sunset Riders both had 4 coin slots. Here's a link to a picture of a TMNT Konami cab and it has 4 coin slots also (1 per person).

http://www.bossyman15.com/gallery/boardpic/turtles%20in%20time_virtua%20cop%203.JPG

[jb143]

I forget...do all 4 coins on the I-PAC have a common connection(ground)? If so, you could tie them all coin inputs on it together to use a single button(the coin mech switch). So 1 wire will go from the switch to Coin-A, Coin-B, Coin-C, and Coin-D. The other wire will go from the swith to the Coins ground.

Of couse, if you're playing a game that is supposed to have 4 coin slots then each quarter will give each player credits. But that's probally not a problem unless your going for total authenticity. In that case, you'd need extra coin mechs anyways though.

Edit---
A better way is to just configure MAME to use whatever button your coin mech is for each of the coin slots.

[FxMercenary]

if you have PCI-E, pick up a P4 3.4 HT Mobo/CPU combo off ebay for 50 bucks. I run all MAME on a p4 3.2 with 3 gigs of PC 2700 RAM and an AGP BFG 7800GS

Its flawless. Spend the majority of your cash on a nice x-arcade stick and 2 light guns!

[StonedMason]

Im not a fan of x-arcades kit :( But i have the gear for the CP so its all good plus have my heart set on that CPU i mentioned. Big fan of overclocking and would like to see it pushed hard my way.

The Cab im using is the original 4 player TMNT but it had its JAMMA changed for a Turtles in Time JAMMA board that is also 4 player... sorry about that

Im not sure if the Cab i have has a different look to your US cab as i live in the UK and our government at the time did not like the idea of kids idolising NINJAS or something so they called them HERO turtles. I got a image off the net of my cab (Im not sure if its attached, find out after post)

I was going to buy the 4 player ipac but the original cab is not very wide and there is not alot of room for the 4 player CP i wanted to design so i was going to use my old 2 player ipac and use the 2 mag sticks and just get it working and later buy the 4 player ipac and 2 optical sticks and try a new layout using all 4 sticks maybe with player 3 and 4 with reduced buttons as i dont think there is many 4 player games that used more than 3 or 4 per person.

I will try taking a few pics tomorrow of the cab and the coin mech and board.... and its paper work. I still need a replacement flyback for the k7000 monitor as it sparks but that guy in the USA who sells replacement parts did not reply to my email :sob: Dont know if any of you guys have purchased from http://www.therealbobroberts.net ?!?!?! Put a good word in for me will ya :p

[StonedMason]

http://www.brentelectronic.com/html/category.asp?category=46

Thats close to my control board.

Im thinking... I just read that some games auto start once a player has credit. Maybe turtles is the same... this would be could if i could configure MAME to treat all games like that. I thought all games needed a player start button but now i think i get it... I just need to add a 2nd set of player start buttons if i cant configure MAME. Would look and feel totally stupid having to insert a coin and then choose what player gets the coin with one button and then having to press a 2nd button to start your player in the game.

One last question if my turtles in time cab used to auto start a player if he had credits... The 4 buttons on my cab tell the credit control board where to issue the coins its given so i would wire the credit control board to my ipac and mame will pick up on the credits. Could i piggie back / double up the use of that button as a start button too ? Im not great at electronics but i could see that working.

Sorry guys... Is my problem making a bit more sense now ? I think I got it in the bag now :)