Thoughts on the direction gaming is taking

[EnemyZero]

Ya know personally I'm kinda getting more and more bored with modern gaming, how much more can they really progress...Im still happy playin my NES and Genesis....further more I pose this .

[Videogamerdaryll]

Voted..
I don't want to comment and spoil the poll.

But my vote was..
HELL YEAH IM ALL FOR IT!!!!!! ;)

[zmeston]

Ya know personally I'm kinda getting more and more bored with modern gaming, how much more can they really progress...Im still happy playin my NES and Genesis....further more I pose this .

While the idea of major publishers supporting classic systems with new games is a lovely one, tain't never goan' happen for a host of reasons, mostly economic but also creative. (Designers and programmers, unlike gamers, very rarely look back on classic systems with fondness; they love the power of modern tech and its ability to make real their most outlandish concepts.) The homebrews of Atari Age and the long-lost betas of Good Deal Games / Older Games are as good as we're gonna get -- but that's pretty good, isn't it?

-- Z.

[dave2236]

I voted HELL YEAH...

I would love to see more sequals or whole new games on classic systems. I would love to see some more dragon warriors for NES or classic Final Fantasy.
Even take a new character like Conker, Bowser, Crash Bandicoot, Spyro, whatever....and make some classic games out of those characters.

Your right though, game developers take it as a step back to work on an obsolete system. Honestly one day when I grow up, I'm 21 now, and have time I would love to make a NES game and release it to the public. I don't want to do it for the money, but for the challenge and to remember the past.

[Ed Oscuro]

Hell yeah! It would be great to see more Super Nintendo games.

Oh, and who can tell me when the latest Super Famicom game was released (I'm not sure I know the latest, but I'm probably pretty close)?

[YoshiM]

Ya know personally I'm kinda getting more and more bored with modern gaming, how much more can they really progress...Im still happy playin my NES and Genesis....further more I pose this .

While the idea of major publishers supporting classic systems with new games is a lovely one, tain't never goan' happen for a host of reasons, mostly economic but also creative. (Designers and programmers, unlike gamers, very rarely look back on classic systems with fondness; they love the power of modern tech and its ability to make real their most outlandish concepts.) The homebrews of Atari Age and the long-lost betas of Good Deal Games / Older Games are as good as we're gonna get -- but that's pretty good, isn't it?

-- Z.

I think developers are getting soft. Trying to optimize code and such to shoehorn a game onto a cartridge while keeping the cost down built character and showed who had talent. Like computers and their "bloatware", I bet game console software falls into the same pitfall. Sure ya got lots of processing power and gobs of space on a DVD, but then why oh why do some games run like ass when they shouldn't?

[zmeston]

Ya know personally I'm kinda getting more and more bored with modern gaming, how much more can they really progress...Im still happy playin my NES and Genesis....further more I pose this .

While the idea of major publishers supporting classic systems with new games is a lovely one, tain't never goan' happen for a host of reasons, mostly economic but also creative. (Designers and programmers, unlike gamers, very rarely look back on classic systems with fondness; they love the power of modern tech and its ability to make real their most outlandish concepts.) The homebrews of Atari Age and the long-lost betas of Good Deal Games / Older Games are as good as we're gonna get -- but that's pretty good, isn't it?

-- Z.

I think developers are getting soft. Trying to optimize code and such to shoehorn a game onto a cartridge while keeping the cost down built character and showed who had talent. Like computers and their "bloatware", I bet game console software falls into the same pitfall. Sure ya got lots of processing power and gobs of space on a DVD, but then why oh why do some games run like ass when they shouldn't?

Programming for classic systems "built character"? Who are you, my grandpa? Heh.

It's not that game developers are getting softer; it's that modern game development is stunningly hard. My friend Mark Androvich at PSE2 Magazine told me an anecdote about meeting one of Pac-Man World's programmers and asking what he did in the game. "The jumping physics," responded the programmer. "And?" Mark asked. "Uh...that's it," responded the programmer. That's how modern game development works: any triple-A game gets a host of programmers, each with his own focus on a certain aspect of gameplay, such as Jumping Physics Guy. There's simply too much work for one programmer to complete, no matter how talented, and so it has to be delegated.

(At least, this is the case with graphics-heavy 3D games, which is just about all of 'em anymore. One or two skilled programmers could surely whip out old-school designs for modern hardware, as when our in-house programmer at Working Designs cranked out an Easter-egg Warlords clone for the PlayStation version of Lunar. It's very buggy but VERY fun, with eight-player support via two Multitaps.)

There's certainly some validity to your "bloatware" comment, what with many modern developers' reliance on middleware and compiled languages instead of down-and-dirty ML. Not every developer has the resources or talent to embark upon low-level programming, especially not with the current generation of consoles. The developers who DO develop their own engines and utilities invariably squeeze the most out of the hardware, like Naughty Dog's Jak & Daxter engine for the PS2.

-- Z.

[dreamcaster]

Lets consider the Dreamcast for a second. I think, it would be perfectly feasible to restart production of the console, and new games.

Processing wise, it ain't THAT far behind the other consoles. I mean, it's 128-bit running at 200MHz. Pretty impressive still. Plus, given the opportunity, the DC can output some amazing graphics (e.g. Soul Calibur).

The problem with the DC when it was going in the late 90's, is that a lot of it's games were being created for a 32/64-bit standpoint. Basically, the DC got the most advanced ports of games at the time. These sorts of games didn't really push the DC. However, the DC is perfectly capable of running ports of current hits, which would give the DC a true chance to shine. And it's not like the DC had storage problems - the discs were capable of storage about 1GB of data. GCN can only store 1.5Gb, and developers have no trouble with it. And in terms of online capabilities - the Sega achieved what the current manufacturers are still having trouble doing - online gaming.

For these reasons, I can't see why the Dreamcast couldn't be brought back into the market.

Yes I can hear some of you saying that Atari tried selling the 2600 against the NES - resulting in dismal failure for Atari. But compare the 2600 to the NES. There's a huge difference there. Pixels versus actual drawn sprites. Speaker bleeps versus actual synthesised music. The NES was far superior in every way.

The Dreamcast, however, is not exactly a long way off the current consoles. And besides, look at the PSX! It's still selling and companies are still producing games for it. The PSOne is the perfect example of how outdated consoles can still compete in the marketplace. It may not be number one, but the fact that there's still new software and hardware being produced and sold means there's at least some demand out there for it.

Perhaps Sega (or some other company - besides Majesco!!!) could produce a simplified, cut price version of the Dreamcast - perhaps to even compete with the PSOne?! Sell the unit for $49.95 US, and games from $9.95 US.

I ask you - given the choice between a PSOne and a new-style Dreamcast, wouldn't you take the DC?

[Achika]

Um, you left out the option of "not feasible" from the poll.

edit:

Dreamcaster:

I can agree that the hardware can compete in in terms of tech in the modern market, but it's the financial market we should be worried about.

In the US though, it's not that simple to just bring things back to the market. It's been so long, that people, except for the die hard fans, have basically "forgotten" about the DC. I mean, look at when Majesco rereleased the Gen 3 & the Game Gear....they've sat for years and went through clearence after clearence, and there are still games sitting on the shelf.

Plus, you couple that with the fact of who was (or is for a short period longer?) running the company and you realize this person has become a bed buddy with Microsoft. Sega would have to go through all the strings of yanking their games for other systems and start back in the hole.

[Scoots]

Oh, and who can tell me when the latest Super Famicom game was released (I'm not sure I know the latest, but I'm probably pretty close)?

I think it's Fire Emblem Thracia 776, released in late 2000.

[ghsqb]

Hell Yeah,
and for those of you who voted like me, put your money where your mouth is, and support folks like Eduardo who is doing his SIC for Coleco, and the good folks at gooddealgames.com who release new titles for old systems.
These guys need our support!

[zmeston]

Lets consider the Dreamcast for a second. I think, it would be perfectly feasible to restart production of the console, and new games.

There's obviously a hardcore market for DC homebrews and hackery, but a mainstream relaunch of the Dreamcast hardware is not remotely feasible for any of a dozen different reasons -- not least of which being that the DC flopped in the marketplace when it was cutting-edge technology, which would hardly inspire a potential manufacturer to relaunch it only to watch it tank a second time.

Then there are the considerable costs and hassles involved with your idea of porting down PS2/Xbox/GCN titles to the DC; the ports would thus have to sell for high MSRPs, which would contradict your idea of $10 games.

The PlayStation/PS one (not the PSX anymore, remember? Heh) continues to sell because it has Sony's marketing prowess and an unstoppable library of games fueling it. Companies are still releasing games for the PS1, but they're quick-and-dirty budget games or localizations of ancient Japanese games, which are both much cheaper affairs than original DC game development or DC conversions.

The public already made its choice years ago -- PlayStation over Dreamcast. Sorry.

-- Z.

[hydr0x]

damn double posts :D

[hydr0x]

Oh, and who can tell me when the latest Super Famicom game was released (I'm not sure I know the latest, but I'm probably pretty close)?

I think it's Fire Emblem Thracia 776, released in late 2000.

this is not correct FE Thracia 776 was released 01/21/2000

correct answer is afaik:

Metal Slader Glory Director's Cut which is still missing in the sfc list
Release 11/29/2000

you can check this on http://www.nintendo.co.jp/n02/shvc/

well i'm not totally sure if this game was released on rom or only on another way (NP), if not on rom, then FE Thracia 776 is correct

the last-but-one release (if ms glory dc was not on rom) is Power Warehouse and i do actually own this one :)

[Nature Boy]

You're dreaming if you think mainstream publishers are going to create games for old consoles. Where's the money in that?

I think what's unfortunate is that, I'm guessing, the homebrew market may only progess so far. If it's really that difficult to create a PS2 game ('cause of it's sheer magnitude say) will anybody bother keeping it alive 10 years from now?

I admit I'm in the dark about most homebrewing (outside dabbling in the VCS myself). But how many systems are they actual active homebrewers for? Anything newer than the ColecoVision? Are there Genesis homebrewers out there?

If you're that against the modern systems and you want new stuff definitely try the homebrewers. Nobody does it for the love of gaming more than a homebrewer.

[TokenGamer]

HELL YEAH IM ALL FOR IT!!!!!!

[zmeston]

You're dreaming if you think mainstream publishers are going to create games for old consoles. Where's the money in that?

I think what's unfortunate is that, I'm guessing, the homebrew market may only progess so far. If it's really that difficult to create a PS2 game ('cause of it's sheer magnitude say) will anybody bother keeping it alive 10 years from now?

The fundamental technical issue with homebrewing PS2 games (and games for many other modern CD-based platforms -- early CD platforms such as the Sega CD and 3DO, along with the anomalous Dreamcast, are exceptions) is disc encryption. You may be able to create a game, but you won't be able to burn it onto a CD-ROM that others can play on their consumer systems. I've never stopped being impressed at the incredible feats of homebrewers and hackers, but I don't know if even they can circumvent this problem.

-- Z.

[kainemaxwell]

hey, it works for homebrewers and many times a homebrew becomes popular enough a company will hire that person(s).

[Achika]

hey, it works for homebrewers and many times a homebrew becomes popular enough a company will hire that person(s).

That's the difference between apples and oranges. They are hiring that person presumably based on their skills right? If it's a "mainstream" company like many would be talking here, they probably aren't buying rights for a Colecovision game to be ported to the PS2. just the talent behind it.

[zektor]

I voted "Hell Yeah", but I know that will never happen. What they can do (and have in the past) is produce emulator "Greatest Hits" for the PC. Sort of like the Intellivision PC Cd's. I think David Michel (designer of the great PC Engine/TG16 emulator) and NEC/Hudson SOft should team up and make a PC "Turbografx Greatest Hits". I believe that would sell. Maybe it's not new games on an old system, but at least it's old classics on new machines...

[zmeston]

hey, it works for homebrewers and many times a homebrew becomes popular enough a company will hire that person(s).

Has this really happened? That's fascinating. Can you name some examples of homebrewers turned pro?

-- Z.

[dreamcaster]

Yeah, I know it infeasible. But I'm allowed to dream can't I?

[Nature Boy]

The fundamental technical issue with homebrewing PS2 games (and games for many other modern CD-based platforms -- early CD platforms such as the Sega CD and 3DO, along with the anomalous Dreamcast, are exceptions) is disc encryption. You may be able to create a game, but you won't be able to burn it onto a CD-ROM that others can play on their consumer systems. I've never stopped being impressed at the incredible feats of homebrewers and hackers, but I don't know if even they can circumvent this problem.

Good point - I forgot about the encryption issues. But don't forget about emulation either. I'm not a homebrewer by any means, but I do play with the code and I have a similar limitation (I have no Cuttle Cart or Starpath to allow me to see my stuff on an actual VCS). I'm happy enough using an emulator - as I'm sure lots of others are (Although I admit it's nice to know I could get a cart produced should I ever want one).