Personal Game Programmer (PGP-1)

[Dire 51]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZJmYtfkTy4

(starts at 1:01)

THIS THING WAS REAL?!

Forgive my outburst there, but back in my last year of junior high/first year of high school, when I was known as the "Atari Guy", one guy I knew told me about this thing that he had which let you change things around in a 2600 cartridge. I thought it sounded cool and asked him if I could borrow it to play around with several times, but he always refused, ultimately leading me to believe that he was full of shit - I think that he was the guy that also told me about the game G.I. Joe II: Smurf Massacre, which I never found any evidence of either. I never saw any evidence that one of these existed (and believe me, I searched for a few years), which furthered my belief.

But now, thanks to Joe posting this video, I can see that he wasn't full of shit after all. I'd be willing to bet this thing is pretty rare, but does anyone here own this? If so, can you give me a little info on it beyond what Al talks about in the video? It seems like an early, early, early Game Genie from the sound of things.

Hey, maybe this means G.I. Joe II: Smurf Massacre is floating around out there too...

[Vectorman0]

Judging by that GI Joe game he lied about, I think it's safe to assume he was also was lying about the topic at hand and it's only coincidence that there is a PGP-1.

Al Backiel sold it to a fellow DP member. I believe another PGP-1 is also owned by a different DP member. Al did a short review of it here (http://www.digitpress.com/reviews/pgp1.htm).

[MASTERWEEDO]

That GI Joe game sounds like fun though

[Zap!]

Joe owns one. So what do these sell for, I want one and will spend what's necessary.

[PingvinBlueJeans]

Joe owns one.
I believe John Hardie owns the model pictured in the video that originally belonged to Al Backiel. Joe doesn't have one, AFAIK.


So what do these sell for, I want one and will spend what's necessary.
If you have to ask, don't bother. Only around a dozen of them were made, and there are only two or three known to exist in the hands of collectors.

[Zap!]

I believe John Hardie owns the model pictured in the video that originally belonged to Al Backiel. Joe doesn't have one, AFAIK.

Joe is on the list of people who own one over at Atari Age.

If you have to ask, don't bother. Only around a dozen of them were made, and there are only two or three known to exist in the hands of collectors.

Try me. Is it more than a few thousand? I'll through out a decent offer.

[Vectorman0]

I think you would have to throw out a five figure offer if you wanted a chance at getting one.

[Jorpho]

I want one and will spend what's necessary.Why, exactly?

[PingvinBlueJeans]

Joe is on the list of people who own one over at Atari Age.
I don't know what list you're referring to, but I'll let Joe confirm or deny whether he owns one (if he chooses).


Try me. Is it more than a few thousand? I'll through out a decent offer.
Quite a bit more...read Vectorman0's post above.


Why, exactly?
My thoughts exactly.

[Zap!]

Why, exactly?

Because it's a piece of history for me, and I have wanting for for nearly two decades.


I don't know what list you're referring to, but I'll let Joe confirm or deny whether he owns one (if he chooses).

I seen a list of PGP owners at AA. Of course it may be wrong, but Joe's name was on the list. Wouldn't surprise me in the least, he deserves one more than anyone. I believe he also owns an Odyssey 3 and CIB Adventurevision.

[Kid Ice]

Wouldn't surprise me in the least, he deserves one more than anyone.

Why? Did he invent Atari or something?

[Buyatari]

Joe owns one. So what do these sell for, I want one and will spend what's necessary.

As far as I know one has never been on EBay. Just private sales.

There are very few out there. The guys who have them are not those inclinded to sell at any price. Should another just happed to turn up the bidding will be fierce. I'd say 5 figures for sure. You would be up against the biggest spending collectors for that thing.

[Jorpho]

Because it's a piece of history for meBut why? Practically no one has heard of it, and all it's likely going to do is just sit on your shelf somewhere. I doubt it even looks particularly nice sitting on a shelf.

[PingvinBlueJeans]

Should another just happed to turn up the bidding will be fierce. I'd say 5 figures for sure. You would be up against the biggest spending collectors for that thing.
Indeed. There are several long time collectors and big spenders (Rick Weis, Wonder007, etc.) who don't have one, but want one. You'd have to outbid the likes of them.


But why? Practically no one has heard of it, and all it's likely going to do is just sit on your shelf somewhere. I doubt it even looks particularly nice sitting on a shelf.
It's also quite difficult to use if you have no programming knowledge. It's not like a Game Genie where you just punch in a bunch of codes and make cool stuff happen on the screen. You need to know exactly which addresses in the code that you want to edit to get the desired effects.

[PapaStu]

But why? Practically no one has heard of it, and all it's likely going to do is just sit on your shelf somewhere. I doubt it even looks particularly nice sitting on a shelf.

That didn't stop me from buying a Net Yaroze.

[megasdkirby]

Indeed. There are several long time collectors and big spenders (Rick Weis, Wonder007, etc.) who don't have one, but want one. You'd have to outbid the likes of them.

I always thought Rick had one... now I'm confused.

Anyway, it's easy to win one on Ebay. Just bid the max amount ($99 million, I think?) and you are guaranteed an easy win... :)

[Dire 51]

Judging by that GI Joe game he lied about, I think it's safe to assume he was also was lying about the topic at hand and it's only coincidence that there is a PGP-1.
I had considered that possibility. Either way, it's nice to know that such a device actually exists.


Al Backiel sold it to a fellow DP member. I believe another PGP-1 is also owned by a different DP member. Al did a short review of it here (http://www.digitpress.com/reviews/pgp1.htm).
Ah, very interesting. Thanks.

Now, who wants to work on a homebrew G.I. Joe II? :D

[Jorpho]

That didn't stop me from buying a Net Yaroze.Well, a Yaroze does have practical uses. Plus it's that nifty alternative color. And it won't set you back several thousand.

[Kid Ice]

He might have seen an ad for the PGP-1 or read about it in a magazine.

I vaguely recall such a device being advertised that could make "changes" to games (I think Pitfall was mentioned by name). I don't remember if it was on TV, or in the pages of EG magazine*.


(yes kids, those two things were more or less the ONLY sources of info about gaming in the "good ole days")

[Buyatari]

I always thought Rick had one... now I'm confused.

Anyway, it's easy to win one on Ebay. Just bid the max amount ($99 million, I think?) and you are guaranteed an easy win... :)

From Rick over at Atariage.




Marco got the one from william's collection! and John has the one from Al. i'm looking for one also (7500$ i'll pay) if anyone has a spare one LOL!

Rick

[Zap!]

Why? Did he invent Atari or something?

No, but he invented this site, something we are all a part of. Not to mention Digital Press fanzine. He is also patient zero in being a classic gaming historian, and has amongst the largest collection of anyone. I put myself in the top 1% (also had a fanzine that started in September 1991, and a forum board), but still would put Joe's knowledge and collection far ahead of mine. If he beat me out and got the last one, I'd be happy for him.


But why? Practically no one has heard of it, and all it's likely going to do is just sit on your shelf somewhere. I doubt it even looks particularly nice sitting on a shelf.

That's why I want it, because it's obscure and almost no one has heard of it, the same reason I want a Colorvision and Halcyon.

[Ed Oscuro]

That didn't stop me from buying a Net Yaroze.
Net Yaroze is actually well-known though.

Not trying to add to the White Knight bashings going on, but jus' sayin'.

If you wanted to duplicate the PGP-1's (lol) functionality it'd probably be easy enough to do. Can't imagine that's true of the Net Yaroze.

Personally I say the thing belongs in a museum, or with somebody who can promote its existence. If White Knight wants to do that, hooray! Otherwise...yeah it's just gonna sit somewhere. :(

[Jorpho]

If he beat me out and got the last one, I'd be happy for him.So it's a competition now?

That's why I want it, because it's obscure and almost no one has heard of it, the same reason I want a Colorvision and Halcyon.See, there are a lot of other things that are obscure and that almost no one has heard of that can be had for dirt cheap.

I give up...

Personally I say the thing belongs in a museum...Especially since I couldn't find a suitable Indiana Jones pic just now.

[Zap!]

See, there are a lot of other things that are obscure and that almost no one has heard of that can be had for dirt cheap.


That's the point. Being a collector and having things no one has heard of is the key. The centerpiece of any collection. Also knowing there is something worth thousands in my collection puts a smile on my face. While I currently don't have any worth that much, I do have several in the $500+ range.
Your "dirt cheap" comment made no sense at all, although a Colorvision can be had for under $500 usually if you can find one.

What's with all the attitudes here?

[Dire 51]

I give up...
...Especially since I couldn't find a suitable Indiana Jones pic just now.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b302/dire51/museum_1.png
IT BELONGS IN A MUSEUM!

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b302/dire51/museum_2.png
SO DO YOU!

Or would you prefer a younger variety?

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b302/dire51/museum_0.png
It should be in a museum!

At any rate, I too have to wonder why any of you care that White Knight wants one of these things. I don't; I just started this thread to find out a little more about them after being fed what I thought was a line of BS years and years ago. If he wants to drop mega-bucks on one, that's his business.

[rbudrick]

I remember hearing in the late 90s or perhaps earlier this decade that Al or perhaps another collecter snagged one or two of these from Answer back in the day and had to sign some non-disclosure agreement, though I'd love to hear more details about this. I also heard that 6 pal and 6 ntsc were made, but I don't know. If anyone can give more in-depth details, I'd love to hear them.

Edit: some of this must have come from this link: http://www.digitpress.com/reviews/pgp1.htm

I would love to see those mentioned docs....the agreement, the letter, the manuals, everything. In fact, I've been dying to see these for about 12 years (since I heard of this thing).

There are previous threads on this, but I'm too lazy to look. I think I started one or two of them myself.

-Rob

[Buyatari]

Your "dirt cheap" comment made no sense at all, although a Colorvision can be had for under $500 usually if you can find one.

What's with all the attitudes here?

Yeah those 2 aren't "dirt cheap" but certainly more obtainable than the PGP.

I would guess that the attitudes have to do with the PGP being just about as unobtainable as you can get. It is at the top when it comes to desired and wanted pieces by the collectors who have everything. How many are known? 2? It is certainly possible just very unlikely you will ever have one.

As for the 2 guys who bought from the company back in the day. Al was the 1st and Will Somerack (forgive the spelling) was the other.

[NoahsMyBro]

As for the 2 guys who bought from the company back in the day. Al was the 1st and Will Somerack (forgive the spelling) was the other.

How do you know this? To be clear, I'm not accusing you of lying or trying to be provocative. I'm sincerely curious to learn how some people find out details like this, while schlubs like me find out the details 5-th or 6-th hand on message boards.

[Jorpho]

Yeah those 2 aren't "dirt cheap" but certainly more obtainable than the PGP.That came out wrong. What I meant is that there is probably no shortage of hyper-obscure stuff that no one has heard of and that you can have for practically nothing if you're patient enough to seek it out. No specific example comes to mind at the moment. (VTech Socrates (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VTech_Socrates), maybe? White-label Colecovision cartridges?) But to re-iterate, I give up.

[Kid Ice]

I put myself in the top 1% (also had a fanzine that started in September 1991, and a forum board), but still would put Joe's knowledge and collection far ahead of mine. If he beat me out and got the last one, I'd be happy for him.

I put you in the top 1% of the resident forum loons.

[PingvinBlueJeans]

Will Somerack (forgive the spelling) was the other.
William Sommerwerck was his name.

Everyone always spells his name wrong.

[Buyatari]

How do you know this? To be clear, I'm not accusing you of lying or trying to be provocative. I'm sincerely curious to learn how some people find out details like this, while schlubs like me find out the details 5-th or 6-th hand on message boards.

Pretty sure Al talks about somewhere on the web and/or told me in person. As for Will well same thing. Either he spoke about it when he was selling his collection or he told me in emails.

[PingvinBlueJeans]

As for Will well same thing. Either he spoke about it when he was selling his collection or he told me in emails.
For anyone that doesn't know who William Sommerwerck is/was, he was one of the original big collectors from 'back in the day'. Here's a short piece he wrote himself several years back.

http://www.digitpress.com/archives/cc_sommerwerck.htm

[Zap!]

Yeah those 2 aren't "dirt cheap" but certainly more obtainable than the PGP.

I would guess that the attitudes have to do with the PGP being just about as unobtainable as you can get. It is at the top when it comes to desired and wanted pieces by the collectors who have everything. How many are known? 2? It is certainly possible just very unlikely you will ever have one.

I can agree with that. I'm thinking now it may be the most valuable and coveted prize in all of gaming. It is unlikely I'll ever own one, but one can always hope. Maybe someone will blink if an insane offer is thrown out. :)



I put you in the top 1% of the resident forum loons.
Now you're just being an antaganizer. Your problems in the past with me is just the past, let it go.

[Jorpho]

I'm thinking now it may be the most valuable and coveted prize in all of gaming.But... But... Practically no one has heard of it!

[Buyatari]

I can agree with that. I'm thinking now it may be the most valuable and coveted prize in all of gaming. It is unlikely I'll ever own one, but one can always hope. Maybe someone will blink if an insane offer is thrown out. :)



Now you're just being an antaganizer. Your problems in the past with me is just the past, let it go.

I wouldn't go that far.

However when you get to items like this many long time Atari collectors treatit more like giving away a daughter to the man who wants to marry her than just selling a item. Even if they have less money you have the disadvantage.

They want (insert long time collector they look up to) to have it when they finally pass it on.

Hard to explain but it is hard to just buy your way into something this unique and coveted.

[slapdash]

They want *RUSS PERRY JR* to have it when they finally pass it on

So now you know where to send those PGP-1s. My condolences though.











;-)

[Swamperon]

I love finding out about things like this. I have no interest in ever owning one (except to sell it for serious cash) but I can see why people would be.

The best thing is with PAL copies made, there's that 0.00000000001% chance one could turn up one day. Something we Europeans usually miss out when it comes to rare stuff like this.

[Flack]

Forgive my outburst there, but back in my last year of junior high/first year of high school, when I was known as the "Atari Guy", one guy I knew told me about this thing that he had which let you change things around in a 2600 cartridge. I thought it sounded cool and asked him if I could borrow it to play around with several times, but he always refused, ultimately leading me to believe that he was full of shit - I think that he was the guy that also told me about the game G.I. Joe II: Smurf Massacre, which I never found any evidence of either. I never saw any evidence that one of these existed (and believe me, I searched for a few years), which furthered my belief.

Sounds like your friend, like a lot of kids, took some pieces of truth and added his own "twist" to it. Maybe he saw the PGP-1 mentioned in an old game magazine and "added" that he had one when he didn't. For the record, there is an old "game" (interactive demo is more like it) for the C64 called "Smurf Massacre" and I'm thinking it might even mention G.I. Joe as well. I'll have to dig through my old disk boxes and see what I can find.

[Dire 51]

Sounds like your friend, like a lot of kids, took some pieces of truth and added his own "twist" to it. Maybe he saw the PGP-1 mentioned in an old game magazine and "added" that he had one when he didn't.
That's probably exactly what happened. It wouldn't surprise me.


For the record, there is an old "game" (interactive demo is more like it) for the C64 called "Smurf Massacre" and I'm thinking it might even mention G.I. Joe as well. I'll have to dig through my old disk boxes and see what I can find.
If you can find that, any way you can post pics?

[Ed Oscuro]

I think what's most important here is that I got closer in touch with my inner Indiana Jones.

Thread is old enough that I saw an image macro online with the quote (but didn't remember this thread; now it clicks - though I need to watch the film).

Sheesh, I must be culturally retarded not to have seen the original IJ movie. >_>

[Dire 51]

Sheesh, I must be culturally retarded not to have seen the original IJ movie. >_>
You've never seen Raiders of the Lost Ark? IMO, you've missed out.

[Arcade Antics]

Sheesh, I must be culturally retarded not to have seen the original IJ movie. >_>

Doubly so if you have seen Crystal Skull.

[Flack]

If you can find that, any way you can post pics?

I haven't found my disk yet, but here are a couple of screen shots from CSDb:

http://noname.c64.org/csdb/release/?id=42841

It's also on GameBase:

http://www.gamebase64.com/game.php?id=11097&d=24

Like I said, calling it a "game" is a bit of an overstatement. Basically you pick weapons and kill defenseless Smurfs. It was a one off game/demo from a German cracking group. There's no way it was ever ported to the Atari 2600 or, most likely, anything else.

[Ed Oscuro]

Doubly so if you have seen Crystal Skull.
NO, I didn't sin THAT far. If Lucas films Death Troopers then maybe he'll be forgiven for Episode I (the last of his films I've seen).

But back on topic - you know, if I had lots of money to throw at Atari stuff, I'd probably go looking for some development stuff, or somebody's game notes, or whatever. That would be far more interesting to me than a device that lets you fill River Raid's rivers with poo (why couldn't they have just pretended it was black?!)

This is a fairly interesting device all the same - forerunner of the Game Genie in a way, so it probably deserves some attention.

[Dire 51]

I haven't found my disk yet, but here are a couple of screen shots from CSDb:

http://noname.c64.org/csdb/release/?id=42841

It's also on GameBase:

http://www.gamebase64.com/game.php?id=11097&d=24

Like I said, calling it a "game" is a bit of an overstatement. Basically you pick weapons and kill defenseless Smurfs. It was a one off game/demo from a German cracking group.
It's real. It's an honest to god real game. There's the proof. It actually exists. My mind just croggled.

In all seriousness, I'm actually a bit more excited to find out this exists than I was when I found out the PGP-1 actually exists, just because for so long I thought "there's no way in hell that could be real." LOL


There's no way it was ever ported to the Atari 2600 or, most likely, anything else.
I just reread my original post, and now I see why you said that. For a moment I was scratching my head, as I never thought it was on the 2600. Y'see, he never claimed G.I. Joe II was a 2600 game, he just claimed he'd seen/owned it. And IIRC, he did say it was for the C64.


Doubly so if you have seen Crystal Skull.
I realize I'm in the minority here, but I liked Crystal Skull. It wasn't the best Indy flick by a long shot, but I enjoyed it quite a bit.

[rbudrick]

It's real. It's an honest to god real game. There's the proof. It actually exists. My mind just croggled.

In all seriousness, I'm actually a bit more excited to find out this exists than I was when I found out the PGP-1 actually exists, just because for so long I thought "there's no way in hell that could be real." LOL


I just reread my original post, and now I see why you said that. For a moment I was scratching my head, as I never thought it was on the 2600. Y'see, he never claimed G.I. Joe II was a 2600 game, he just claimed he'd seen/owned it. And IIRC, he did say it was for the C64.


I realize I'm in the minority here, but I liked Crystal Skull. It wasn't the best Indy flick by a long shot, but I enjoyed it quite a bit.


I thought Crystal Skull was quite good too. It was certainly no Phantom Menace.

Anyway, back to the PGP-1. Since there's only two out there, I must ask...Joe, have you backed up any roms on there? Ever considered having a place like retrousb RE it and make similar units? It sure didn't hurt the value of NWC carts!

-Rob

[Tempest]

I almost had a shot at the PGP-1. Back when Al was unloading his 'good stuff' at PC2 I asked him about the PGP-1 I knew he had. Unfortunately he had already promised it to John, so I had to settle for snagging his Compumate instead.

Tempest