Why no good modern wrestling games?

[Foxglove9]

I'm itching to play a new wrestling game. My favorite was always No Mercy or any wrestling game for that matter from AKI. Since then I haven't really found anything I like to play. I have Fire Pro on PS2 but it never really grew on me. And I have Smackdown Shut Your Mouth on PS2 and I really hate how that controls.

Have the newer WWE games improved since then. I read bad things about the TNA game. I did not like the demo for WWE's Legends either.

Anyone recommend a wrestling game worth playing from the modern era?

[namzep]

I've always enjoyed the M.U.S.C.L.E. game that came out for the Gamecube. Of course, part of that might be the nostalgia factor of having played with the toys as a kid. It's the only wrestling game that I've been able to get into since the early 90s and all the WWF games that were coming out then (for both the NES and in the arcade).

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

The modern Smackdown games implimented an AKI "style" block/reversal system up on the shoulder buttons.

In general that series tends to tweak its control scheme on a regular basis, so I'd check back in with it. It's still the Smackdown engine at it's core, so it MAY still turn you off, but many consider it to be the best wrestling game series and it's longevity is hard to argue.

Also, Galactic Wrestling featuring Ultimate Muscle for PS2 is pretty awesome. It's like a VERY "lite"/arcade-y version of the AKI grappling system and it has TONS of unlockable characters and is a blast in 2 player mode.

http://s53.radikal.ru/i141/0807/0f/6b66ef794a95.jpg

Though, for my money it doesn't get much better than Capcom's Saturday Night Slam Masters. I'd love a modern HD version of that.

[Foxglove9]

I have Ultimate Muscle on Gamecube and I do like it. I wanted Galactic Muscle but never saw it in stores. Is it much different than Ultimate Muscle?

[ubersaurus]

I actually liked Shut Your Mouth and Here Comes the Pain a lot on PS2. The series has gone to hell since then, but those two were very good wrestling games, and I actually enjoyed them more than No Mercy.

[Neil Koch]

Here Comes the Pain is generally regarded as the best in the Smackdown series. It's still a pretty fun game.

I do have the 08 version of Smackdown on the Wii. The motion controls actually work well, but there's only like 5 different match types you can do.

You might want to check out the Wrestlemania games on GC and Xbox. But don't go anywhere near the Raw games on Xbox - they're horrible.

And yes, the TNA game does suck, which is a shame because it had a lot of potential with stuff like the Ultimate X match. Even though you can get it dirt cheap now, it's still not worth it (at least as a PS3 owner) because the hard drive install is huge.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

I have Ultimate Muscle on Gamecube and I do like it. I wanted Galactic Muscle but never saw it in stores. Is it much different than Ultimate Muscle?

It's a bit more robust and has a larger selection of unlockable characters, but essentially the same game.

[demen999]

Fire Pro Wrestling was good, and those N64 WWF games. Besides that, all of the ones after that period lack something.

[Cryomancer]

You can probably snag Rumble Roses pretty cheap nowadays if that's at all interesting to you. It's got character customization / training (train more = get more muscle, etc). Good luck ever finding the time to get all the acheivments though, you have to buy everything in the shop with every character...including all 30 or so custom character slots. Plus there's a TON of pointless recolored outfits for DLC, I wouldn't waste your money on those.

[Hitman Tyler]

I own every WWF/WWE Game. An my favorite is also No Mercy. My next favorite is WWF Smackdown 2: Know Your Role. Due the alot things you can unlock and backstages as well as "special matches". I also liked Shut Your Mouth for 2 reasons; 1 is that you can climb the TitanTron and jump. 2nd I was at the King of the Ring that year that is featured in the game. I recommend either WWF Smackdown 2: Know Your Role for PS1. Which I kinda guess isn't really modern. Also I recommend any of the Legends of Wrestling games. Due they give you classic wrestlers and its a more smoother feel to the game.
What would really help me is you tell which you played already.

[The 1 2 P]

I also own all the Smackdown games and I still enjoy the first two PS ones. Speaking of PS games, I probably enjoyed the import titles more than the US ones(Touken Retsuden 1-3, All Japan Pro Wrestling, All Japan Women's Pro Wrestling).

I have TNA and Smackdown vs Raw 2008 but I haven't had a chance to fully check them out, besides for a demo of Smackdown. I also know that the studio that made the TNA game is in danger of closing if they can't find a buyer(the studio was left out of the Warner Bros buyout deal). So unfortunately that game may be as good as it gets for TNA fans like myself.

And finally, welcome to DP Foxglove9. I'm sure you'll like it here. I don't but somebody has to like itLOL Actually, I enjoy this place very much and you will too;)

[darkwingduck13]

Fire Pro Wrestling Returns for PS2 is the best English-language wrestling game I've ever played. It may even be the best one released, period. The create-a-wrestler is the deepest I've ever seen, the match types are varied, the movelists are incredible...I don't play any other wrestling titles on home systems now that I've got this.

For the PSP, I go with Fire Pro Wrestling G, which was originally released for the PSOne. It's an earlier version of the series, but still better than any of the PSP-specific wrestling games.

[Borman]

Pick up Fire Pro Wrestling Returns for the PS2, I bought it for 10 bucks new about a year ago. Tons of great save files out there with full rosters, it's pretty amazing.

[snes_collector]

Fire Pro Wrestling Returns for PS2 is all you need. 95% of all my game playing has been FPR for over a year. Tons of match types and a very deep edit mode. There are tons of edit packs you can download for it too. I suggest if you buy it go to http://www.fireproclub.com to get edits. I'm a member there and would be glad to answer any questions you have.

Awesome doesn't describe this game well enough.

[Foxglove9]

I forgot all about Rumble Roses!! I do own that one, my boyfriend hates playing it (go figure)

Wrestling games I've played in the post 16-bit era...

Wrestlemania Arcade & In Your House
Virtual Pro Wrestling 64
Touken Retsuden
WCW vs. The World
WCW Nitro
WCW Revenge
WWF Warzone
Ultimate Muscle
Rumble Roses XX
WCW Mayhem
Fire Pro Returns
Fire Pro G
Simpsons Wrestling
WCW Thunder
Power Move Wrestling
Smackdown Here comes the Pain
Wrestlemania 2000
WCW/NWO World Tour
WWF Attitude
WWF No Mercy

Maybe I left some out. I guess you could say I'm a wrestling fan... haha

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Ah yes, I do tend to forget Rumble Roses / Rumble Roses XX, I enjoyed both of those. Graphically I think RR is one of the best looking PS2 wrestling games.

The play control was a limited/stiff variant of the Smackdown engine ... but it's hard not to enjoy a game where opponents submit due to embarrassment from being put in some type of "erotic" submission hold.

[kupomogli]

My favorite wrestling games are WCW/NWO vs the World, WCW/NWO Revenge, WWF Wrestlemania 2000, WWF No Mercy, and Smackdown 1 and 2.

I own Fire Pro Wrestling Returns but I haven't opened it. I've played one of the SNES titles and pretty much hated it, so not sure if I'll ever get into Returns.

The only PS2 Smackdown game I've played was I think 2007. I hated it. I didn't know how to counter(or atleast couldn't if it was still Square like on the other Smackdown games,) the grappling system was just screwed and couldn't do any of the heavy grapples. Sure I only played about three matches or so and gave up on it(sold it,) but if I have to study the game in order to find out the controls, even after three matches, then it's not worth my time. It may have been an amazing game, but I hated it the small amount of time I've played it.

[Cryomancer]

There is also a Wrestling themed card fighting game, probably not what you are looking for though: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7H_kMhW1BDA

[CelticJobber]

I was a big No Mercy fan, and I hated most of the early Smackdown titles. However, I really like WWE Smackdown vs. Raw series, especially since they implemented the joystick grapple control scheme which greatly improves the quality of gameplay, IMO.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

While everybody is certainly entitled to their opinion of what wrestling game they like best - It's amazing how much crap the Smackdown series takes on gaming message boards.

It's really tough to argue that the games don't play well, have a really refined create a wrestler, create an entrance, create a finishing move, etc. and a really active online community.

The devs have tweaked the hell out of the engine/play system, produced some of the most consistent yearly product, and do a lot to listen to the fans in terms of what they want in/out in each consecutive version of the game.

Of course there's no getting around people being "tired" of playing the same game over and over ... but the Smackdown Vs. Raw series is wrestling's Madden, you can't blame devs for feeling that if it ain't broke and it keeps moving millions there's no reason to re-invent the wheel. (Even though THQ DID shake up the play control for Legends of Wrestlemania).

I suppose that no matter how much people bash Smackdown the proof is in the numbers. The series will be around as long as THQ/Yukes keep up the quality ... and I hope this years version has a bigger focus on downloadable superstars / superstar packs ... that's easily the future of these types of games.

Unrelated - It's a shame that the N64 AKI WCW and WWE games can't be released on Virtual Console for whatever reason (they'd probably have to re-license likenesses, etc.).

[Rob2600]

Anyone recommend a wrestling game worth playing from the modern era?

I haven't played it, but WWE SmackDown vs. RAW 2009 for the Wii received good reviews. Best of all, it's only $28 new (or $15 used) on Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/WWE-Smackdown-Raw-2009-Nintendo-Wii/dp/B00175GC5E/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=videogames&qid=1247626133&sr=1-3).

[CDiablo]

SmackDown hasent been good since 06 and they moved graple to the sticks. Obviously No Mercy is a classic and was a perfect game, but no one realised it so it didnt have any real successor after. The engine was supposedly used in those awful Def Jam games, and it shows. The GC wrestling games are kind of like No Mercy but not really. As far as good new wrestling games are concerned the last one I played was Fire Pro Returns for PS2 if you are into the fire pro series.

[Nirvana]

I freakin love Smackdown Here Comes the Pain. My friends and I still play that; we do the 2 v 2 v 2 Ladder matches. It's absolute chaos. The CAW system is pretty in depth and you can have a great amount of created characters. Not to mention it's the last Smackdown game that can still be played really fast.

I know you said you don't like how it controlled (since SYM was pretty much the same) but I still regard it as the finest wrestling game ever made.

[CelticJobber]

I suppose that no matter how much people bash Smackdown the proof is in the numbers. The series will be around as long as THQ/Yukes keep up the quality ... and I hope this years version has a bigger focus on downloadable superstars / superstar packs ... that's easily the future of these types of games.

From what I understand, Smackdown vs. Raw 2010 could be the last WWE game published by THQ, as their contract ends after this year. And WWE and THQ have always had a tumultuous relationship, so I'd be surprised to see the contract renewed. My guess is that the WWE license will end up with EA.

[snes_collector]

There is also a Wrestling themed card fighting game, probably not what you are looking for though: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7H_kMhW1BDA

I've been hoping someone would port this along with King of Colosseum II over for a US release. Probably won't be that lucky though.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

From what I understand, Smackdown vs. Raw 2010 could be the last WWE game published by THQ, as their contract ends after this year. And WWE and THQ have always had a tumultuous relationship, so I'd be surprised to see the contract renewed. My guess is that the WWE license will end up with EA.

Wouldn't surprise me.

[11killer11]

My all-time favorites have to be the wrestling games for N64. WWF Wrestlemania 2000, WWF No Mercy, WCW vs NWO Revenge and WCW vs NWO World Tour (sorry if I got that last title wrong.) There was a rumor going around that WWF No Marcy was being updated with current wrestlers for WiiWare but that was a very long time ago but I still hope it's true!
As for the modern ones, I would have to suggest Smackdown vs Raw 2007
for the PS2. It's very good, just not that hardcore if you're looking for that sorta thing. (I was!) My favorites have to be Smackdown Shut your mouth, Smackdown vs Raw 2006.
I guess I was living under a rock but it seems that everybody used to say that WWF No Mercy was the greatest one, then it changed to SvR 2006 and now it's Here Comes the Pain. Truthfully No Mercy is no.1 above all others in my mind.

Just a few nobody has mentioned:
Backyard Wrestling 1 & 2
Def Jam Vendetta Series (the first one for Gamecube actually has you wrestling in a ring!)
ECW: Anarchy Rulez
WCW Mayhem for N64
WCW Thunder for PS1
WWF Royal Rumble for Sega Dreamcast

[Foxglove9]

ECW could possibly be the greatest letdown of a wrestling game.

I liked Def Jam Vendetta. Backyard Wrestling was another letdown, but had potential.

[The 1 2 P]

The only thing bad about the ECW games was the control. Yeah, I could see how that might ruin it for people but blame Aklaim and their broke ass wrestling controls. Everyone of their wrestling games(from WWF Raw is War to ECW Anarchy Rulez) had the worst controls in wrestling game history. Even The Rock made fun of WWF Attitude in one of his interviews promoting WWF Wrestlemania 2000, saying you shouldn't have to stand on your head backwards and jump out the window just to perform the peoples's elbow. And he's right: why the hell am I inputing 4 different button commands for a suplex?

Same thing with WCW Nitro and WCW Thunder. Way too much inputing for all the simple moves. And the finishing signature moves? Can you say "hand cramp"?


Yes we can

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Am I the only person who enjoyed WCW Mayhem on the PSX?

I thought that EA did a great job with the roster and presentation, the play-by-play audio was amazing for the time and the mo-caps were especially good considering the era the game was made in ... the play control was a bit overly complex but not broken to the point of the WWF Acclaim games. It even could've evolved into something more solid if not for the ridiculous backstage-only sequel and the demise of the WCW brand.

[The Clonus Horror]

It seems to me that the Smackdown gameplay got slower and slower after Smackdown vs Raw. I know they were going for more of a "sim" feel, but honestly, I prefer Smackdown 2: Know Your Role and Here Comes the Pain's arcadey, timing-based chaos to having to press select to regain stamina in between moves. Sometimes it added an extra element of strategy, which I'm sure is why they put it in, but mostly I found it tedious. I like Fire Pro Returns, but if I don't play it for awhile, I have to break myself back into the control scheme. I like No Mercy, but only hook up my N64 twice a year. Great controls, though. Ultimate Muscle/Galactic Wrestling=mindless Japanese weird fun. Come to think of it, I just played Mat Mania on MAME and had an absolute blast until I got destroyed by Coco Savege, which proves my skills have not improved at all since 1985. I didn't mind Rumble Roses on PS2, haven't played the sequel on 360--probably could find that one cheap. I still say my top two favorites are Smackdown 2: Know Your Role and Here Comes the Pain, definitely.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

[QUOTE=The Clonus Horror;1587062]...Come to think of it, I just played Mat Mania on MAME and had an absolute blast until I got destroyed by Coco Savege, which proves my skills have not improved at all since 1985...[QUOTE]

Ahhh yeah, Coco Savage is the hardest opponent in that game IMO ... his running moves and grapples/throws are very tough to defend against.

Also, Coco Savage is probably the reason that that game has never made it to any Taito "classics collections" ... he's not exactly what I'd call a politically correct depiction of an African gentleman, even by 80s pro wrestling game standards.

[Hitman Tyler]

Just a few nobody has mentioned:
WWF Royal Rumble for Sega Dreamcast
OMG!! I totally forgot this one... This is 1 of my favorite DC Games! :)
This best thing of the game is the Unlimited amount of people allowed in the ring at once for the Royal Rumble.. While like Smackdown only allows only like 10 this game allows Unlimited.

[Foxglove9]

...Come to think of it, I just played Mat Mania on MAME and had an absolute blast until I got destroyed by Coco Savege, which proves my skills have not improved at all since 1985...

Mat Mania / Mania Challenge is one of my all time favorite wrestling games! Coco Savage is real simple to beat if you do the same shoulder block moves to him like he does to you. One of the easier guys to deal with. But yeah he used to drive me nuts when I would play that in the arcade.

[Rob2600]

Why all of the retroactive hate for Acclaim's PS/N64 WWF games? In the late 1990s, WWF War Zone and WWF Attitude received fantastic review scores. Were they wrong?

[Foxglove9]

Acclaim used to also buy huge full page ads in the magazines that gave them fantastic reviews. I'm sure that helped influence their decisions.

I'm surprised at how many arcade wrestling games never made it to the home consoles. Wrestlewar for example. It was released in Japan but not in the US. I think that would have sold great for Sega back then not sure why they would release the rebranded Buster Douglas Boxing and not Wrestlewar.

[Rob2600]

Acclaim used to also buy huge full page ads in the magazines that gave them fantastic reviews. I'm sure that helped influence their decisions.

True, but web sites like IGN gave Acclaim's WWF Warzone and Attitude good scores, too. I remember the people at IGN thinking Attitude was really great...and I worked at EB at the time and it sold very well. None of my customers returned it or complained.

I just find it weird that back then, those games were considered very good, but now some of you are saying they stunk.


I'm surprised at how many arcade wrestling games never made it to the home consoles. Wrestlewar for example. It was released in Japan but not in the US. I think that would have sold great for Sega back then not sure why they would release the rebranded Buster Douglas Boxing and not Wrestlewar.

You answered your own question: it was Sega. Hardly anything it did made sense. :)

Seriously though, in 1989/90, I had a Sega Genesis poster that featured the lineup of games at the time. WrestleWar was one of them, but instead of a screenshot, it said "coming soon." I was really looking forward to that and you're right, it was never released here.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Warzone and Attitude were, at the time, huge techincal achievements in the realm of 32 bit wrestling games.

However, they had frustrating control schemes that were ultimately not player friendly.

Did people buy them and enjoy them when they were out? Sure. They looked nice and they had decent presentation and rosters.

But once games with the AKI and Yukes wrestling engines were released it became evident that the Acclaim games weren't worth the trouble required to play/execute the moves.

[The 1 2 P]

Mat Mania is one of my all time favorite wrestling games!

Same here and I'm still mad it never got a proper console port. They won't even include it in a compilation, which makes no sense. It was one of the most fun gaming experiences I have ever had with a wrestling game.


Why all of the retroactive hate for Acclaim's PS/N64 WWF games? In the late 1990s, WWF War Zone and WWF Attitude received fantastic review scores. Were they wrong?

I liked the entrances, some of the character models and huge move list for each character. But despite all of that, I hated the controls. Since I was raised on the simplistic controls of Mat Mania and Pro Wrestling(Nes), I was expecting something more intuitive than what Acclaim actually delivered. The controls were bad back then but if you try to play that game today you're realize just how unbearable they can be.

[Neil Koch]

The Acclaim games were fairly revolutionary for the because of the detailed entrances, long move lists, multiple match types, and probably most importantly, the create a wrestler feature, which was unheard of in a mainstream US wrestling game to that point.

But once the Smackdown games came out, you could pretty clearly see how clunky and counter-intuitive the control scheme was.

As for Wrestlewar never coming to the US, it was probably because most of the wrestlers were basically ripoffs of real-life guys. It was on the Smash Pack on the DC, and I recall it not being very fun.

[Bloodreign]

Ahhh yeah, Coco Savage is the hardest opponent in that game IMO ... his running moves and grapples/throws are very tough to defend against.

Also, Coco Savage is probably the reason that that game has never made it to any Taito "classics collections" ... he's not exactly what I'd call a politically correct depiction of an African gentleman, even by 80s pro wrestling game standards.


If my memory serves me correctly that couldn't happen because Taito only distributed it, Technos originally made the game.


But I agree, Mat Mania was the stuff for me back in the day, I sucjed horribly at the game, but I kept putting in quarters anyway as the game was so fun.