Buyers have stopped paying for stuff and it appears ebay really doesn't care (a rant)

[ryborg]

Have any other sellers here been bombarded with non-paying bidders recently? Each of the last three months, I have set personal records for percentage of items sold that never get paid for. This is getting ridiculous.

Over the last 30 days, I sold 105 items on my one account. Twelve were never paid for, not including buyers from the last two days. That's over 10%, which is really unacceptable. The values of the unpaid items also equal a little over 10%, meaning it isn't specifically expensive or cheap items that aren't being paid for, it is a mix.

The really sad part is that this particular account is 100% Buy It Now. I would require immediate payment, but I've found that significantly lowers sales. I may have to consider that again.

What's somehow worse, it seems no one is getting suspended for this. Of course I don't expect all non-paying-bidders to be instantly suspended for one non-payment, but when a new user buys something on their first day and never pays, they should be gone. Even buyers with very high feedback aren't paying anymore. I just closed a dispute concerning a person with 1100+ feedback.

We all know that buyers can't receive critical feedback, so it's hard to be 100% positive that they are a deadbeat. However, if a new user has a long bid history with many wins in one or two days, with ZERO feedback, it is likely none of those items are getting paid for. I don't leave feedback as a seller, but I know a majority of sellers DO leave feedback, so if they are paying, they should have some.

It used to be satisfying to close a dispute, wait 10 seconds, then check the deadbeat's feedback page to see the bright red "Not A Registered User" alert next to their name. That hasn't happened to me in months. I'll go back later to check and they're still around, still bidding on crap, still not paying.

It seems there is no penalty for not paying and bidders know this. Please tell me I'm just being cynical and most other sellers are getting paid like usual.

[darkslime]

That's why I only do BIN

[unwinddesign]

If I'm not mistaken, you only get the final value fee back when you close the dispute, right? eBay keeps the insertion fee, I think...

...which makes it twice as annoying. I had someone buy a Dreamcast Light Gun for $30 + shipping. Doesn't pay, I file a complaint and check his feedback...low and behold he has a positive from a seller for the same gun...for $5 less, bought like three hours after he bought mine.

I was just like :| ; the least he could have done is told me. I don't list items on eBay for jollies, you know. Or just because I like seeing emails in my inbox saying "someone bought your item!" I need it to make money.

You should be gone if you don't pay for two items. It's not that hard! You're legally obligated to pay...it's not like adding something to your Amazon cart and then deleting it. eBay really needs to tighten up their policies and make things friendlier to sellers; I've started selling less, and will continue to do so, since they just make it so damn hard to make money efficiently now.

[ryborg]

If I'm not mistaken, you only get the final value fee back when you close the dispute, right? eBay keeps the insertion fee, I think...

You get your FVF back when you close the dispute, but it is possible to get your insertion fee back. It needs to be a single item listing (auction or fixed price, it doesn't matter), and it needs to sell first time around on the relist. I do a lot of multi-item listings, so I end up not getting back a majority of my listing fees.

[Cryomancer]

If I'm not mistaken, you only get the final value fee back when you close the dispute, right? eBay keeps the insertion fee, I think...

...which makes it twice as annoying. I had someone buy a Dreamcast Light Gun for $30 + shipping. Doesn't pay, I file a complaint and check his feedback...low and behold he has a positive from a seller for the same gun...for $5 less, bought like three hours after he bought mine.

I was just like :| ; the least he could have done is told me. I don't list items on eBay for jollies, you know. Or just because I like seeing emails in my inbox saying "someone bought your item!" I need it to make money.

You should be gone if you don't pay for two items. It's not that hard! You're legally obligated to pay...it's not like adding something to your Amazon cart and then deleting it. eBay really needs to tighten up their policies and make things friendlier to sellers; I've started selling less, and will continue to do so, since they just make it so damn hard to make money efficiently now.

I'm worried that I'm in a similar situation now. It's been 4 days since the auction ended, I've messaged him a few times and sent an invoice...I checked his feedback and there is an already positive feedback for an auction that included the same items I'm selling. Blah. If he'd jut get ahold of me and talk about it i'd let it go and not care. But if i'm ignored for a week I'm gonna have to take some sort of measures...

[aaron7]

Sold 4 things last week. Three have been paid for. One guy said "Oh, I can't afford it now. Please don't leave me bad feedback"... I would if I COULD!!

[darkslime]

If you want your insertion fee back, send an ebay message to ebay customer service bitching about it.

Every time they will tell you how to file a non paying bidder report, and say insertion fees can't normally be refunded but will make an exception and refund them.

They send me the exact same message every time and always refund the fees.

[ryborg]

If you want your insertion fee back, send an ebay message to ebay customer service bitching about it.

Every time they will tell you how to file a non paying bidder report, and say insertion fees can't normally be refunded but will make an exception and refund them.

But they CAN be refunded, as described in my second post, unless it was a multi-item listing. Even so, that's a lot of busywork just to get back $.35

[b1aCkDeA7h]

Nowadays, I've come to notice that eBay really protects buyers and gouges sellers pretty badly.

One complaint can lock down a seller account until a seller is pretty much forced to pay a refund as the easiest and simplest solution, especially if its a rather large eBay business that depends heavily on selling.

Though I've never personally had buyer issues, eBay isn't my lifeblood so I would probably go through the proper channels to somehow prove that I'm not at fault if I know I'm not at fault.

[Cornelius]

I actually supported the feedback change because they claimed they'd be tightening up on non-paying bidder crap and because negative feedback doesn't matter as a buyer anyway. It isn't like you could just refuse to sell to them. But since the non-paying buyer is just as or more common than ever, clearly they didn't follow through with that claim. One more reason for switching what I can to CTCW to add to the litany of other reasons. Still pretty stuck for non game stuff.

[darkslime]

The reason I don't switch to CTCW is because I mostly flip common crap that those people know you could buy at gamestop or on clearance for $10 cheaper, or already have a billion copies of it they're trying to get rid of (stuff like SMB3 that I can sell for $15 on ebay)

[Cryomancer]

The guy I was talking about got back to me today since i did the personal info request and it freaked him out. i didn't evne know they would give me that much info, I just wanted it to give me an actual email address or something instead of the ebay passthrough email stuff since I thought it might just be a technical issue or something. is 4 days without payment normal on ebay now? I've not been using it for a couple years until just recentely here...I seem to recall three days being the general cutoff back then. And I always paid right away myself anyway. I'm hoping I'm just being paranoid and this all works out though. I don't wanna be a jerk about this kind of thing.

[b1aCkDeA7h]

Most people list the amount of business days they expect payment now. I don't but I haven't had a problem yet. Next time I do an auction, I will. For now, to avoid eBay's buy it now sale fees, I put up a stupid buy it now price with a best offer option on the price I actually wanted to set the buy it now price at.

I can't believe how much of a difference that made with the final value fees.

[Cryomancer]

I guess I'll have to move to buy it now or list a number of days I expect payment in just in case then.

I wonder if chasethechuckwagon users would want Sonic comics? hmm.

[Kaboomer]

Hey all,

I alway enjoy reading how Ebay is pissing everyone off. Just so you know we do have common things sell. Worst case is you just need to relist a few times which doesn't cost you anything. Since I have been feeding our auctions into Google Base that has been bringing in quite a few moms and new collectors buying the common items as the auctions appear when people do Google searches for specific items. So try it out you have nothing to lose :)

[Cryomancer]

Since you are right here...do you really want me to reply to the email I just got signing up on where I heard of the site? heh

[Kaboomer]

Since you are right here...do you really want me to reply to the email I just got signing up on where I heard of the site? heh

Ya, I saw your user id just now. Thanks for joining :) Let me know if you ever have any questions about the site or the community. We do have a video gaming magazine category. Maybe I could add to that Video gaming comics.

[Cornelius]

The reason I don't switch to CTCW is because I mostly flip common crap that those people know you could buy at gamestop or on clearance for $10 cheaper, or already have a billion copies of it they're trying to get rid of (stuff like SMB3 that I can sell for $15 on ebay)
I hear that, I have the same concerns as well, but I'm going to give it a fair chance to prove one way or the other (in a week or two when my summer settles down).


Most people list the amount of business days they expect payment now. I don't but I haven't had a problem yet. Next time I do an auction, I will. For now, to avoid eBay's buy it now sale fees, I put up a stupid buy it now price with a best offer option on the price I actually wanted to set the buy it now price at.

I can't believe how much of a difference that made with the final value fees.
whatchusay? really? If you sell something for best offer, the FVF is on a different schedule? I did not know that.

[megasdkirby]

:(

It happened to me on CTC...sold Buster Douglas only for the buyer to backout.

Oh well...I still like CTC anyway. :)

[ryborg]

Hey all,

I alway enjoy reading how Ebay is pissing everyone off.

Really? That makes you kind of an asshole. I know I'm probably in the minority, but I feel that comments like this, serious or not, are unprofessional and make me not want to ever sell on your site.

"Hate the game, not the player."

[Kaboomer]

Sorry I came across that way and you are in the minority as all who know me and have interacted with me know I am most certainly not an asshole and am putting alot on the line (time and $) to give gamers a legitimate less expensive option to Ebay. And yes, as an owner of a competing site, why shouldn't I revel in their bad decisions and lack of customer service, but I am sorry it comes at the expense of fellow gamers. I just also happen to be a collector and gamer first and foremost so maybe sometimes I cross the line in my posts. But I feel for you guys, I really do. As Megasdkirby mentioned we have non-paying bidders on the Chuckwagon as well and you can't always do something about it.

One thing though on the Chuckwagon is I actually make attempts (when I am notified) to get in touch with the NPB'ers and try and find out why they are slow to pay or backing out. On many occasions I have rectified the situation which has allowed for the sale to go through. But on some instances they are beyond fixing and the deal goes south. But I try. And I have booted people for a variety of things in efforts to keep the site free of the BS that is plaguing Ebay. Ebay doesn't give a crap anymore and the Chuckwagon has grown because of it which pleases me. And I would be lieing if I said anything else.

Ebay raises fees and treats eveyone like crap but the majority continue to use and support them (that is what you are doing when you use them). I've said it before, they have the best customer base ever.

[Mimi Nakamura]

The problem is that Ebay have a monopoly. There is no real competition so they can do whatever they like.

[The 1 2 P]

The problem is that Ebay have a monopoly. There is no real competition so they can do whatever they like.

Sadly this is pretty much spot on. Beyond CTCW theres yahoo auctions, Goodwill auctions and Amazon might even have some but none of them can even come close to the stranglehold ebay has on the auction community. Just like you think the name kleenex when you think of tissues, when you think of online auctions you think of ebay. And ebay knows that they have 80% more users than every other auction site combined so they use that power against their user base. They figure, who cares if 600,000 people closed their accounts this year....we still have another 90 million accounts worldwide.

[ryborg]

And yes, as an owner of a competing site, why shouldn't I revel in their bad decisions and lack of customer service, but I am sorry it comes at the expense of fellow gamers.

Right. That's the difference between enjoying ebay's dumb policies and bad service for your personal gain as opposed to enjoying seeing specific users pissed off. I know you don't have bad intentions, but stuff like "ha ha ebay made you guys angry" comes off as selfish and narcissistic.


Ebay raises fees and treats eveyone like crap but the majority continue to use and support them (that is what you are doing when you use them). I've said it before, they have the best customer base ever.

I want your site and other independents to succeed, I really do, but I don't sell video games anymore, aside from ~30 old PC/Mac games on Amazon. Supporting the enemy or not, ebay's still where the money is, which is why I sell, and until there's an independent site for clothing, board games and sports apparel with a large enough user base, I'll stay where I'm at.

[ryborg]

Sadly this is pretty much spot on. Beyond CTCW theres yahoo auctions, Goodwill auctions and Amazon might even have some but none of them can even come close to the stranglehold ebay has on the auction community.

Bad examples. Yahoo is gone (except in Japan), Goodwill is only for GW retail stores, and you can only sell something on Amazon if it's already in the system (meaning it has a legit bar code/ISBN)

[The 1 2 P]

Bad examples. Yahoo is gone (except in Japan), Goodwill is only for GW retail stores, and you can only sell something on Amazon if it's already in the system (meaning it has a legit bar code/ISBN)

That just means that ebay has even less competition and that further reinforces my point that they will do whatever they want simply because they can.

[ryborg]

That just means that ebay has even less competition and that further reinforces my point that they will do whatever they want simply because they can.

Well, yeah. I don't think anyone was disagreeing with that. They have the buyers, which means sellers will put up with crap to get access to that user base.

[Darren870]

Forums all the way. I dont sell on ebay till its been on the forums for a few weeks and shows no interest.

I know you sell stuff besides just games, so it my not apply to you. However I am apart of maybe 7-8 highly visited forums and 90% of the time things sell on there and I dont have to worry about this non paying bidder crap.

Everytime ebay is my last option I always get 2-3 non pay bidders. Sucks and I hate it. I always file that NPB complaint and sometimes they get das boot... and sometimes nothing happens.

Meh.

[VG_Maniac]

Everyone who buys something from me and never pays...has 100% positive feedback. That right there shows you how broken Ebay's feedback system is.

[ronclon]

Everyone who buys something from me and never pays...has 100% positive feedback. That right there shows you how broken Ebay's feedback system is.

Yeah, and it's not bad enough that you can't neg them but they can also make their feedback private so even if you leave a comment it doesn't do any good.

[ryborg]

Yeah, and it's not bad enough that you can't neg them but they can also make their feedback private so even if you leave a comment it doesn't do any good.

Not to mention you can't leave negative comments in a positive feedback anymore. All it takes is one quick email complaint from the buyer and ebay will instantly remove it.

[Cryomancer]

Tomorrow makes a week on the guy not paying me. What exactly is the "correct" thing to do within the ebay system for this sort of thing anyway? Just relist it, or do I do some sort of report somewhere? You can tell I haven't used ebay to sell anything lately (and am not going to after this either, man it's gotten bad).

He hasn't paid, I haven't sent, i figure I'll give him until tomorrow, then send one final "are you going to pay or not?" message, and after that say fuck it and sell these things somewhere else.

[VG_Maniac]

Tomorrow makes a week on the guy not paying me. What exactly is the "correct" thing to do within the ebay system for this sort of thing anyway? Just relist it, or do I do some sort of report somewhere? You can tell I haven't used ebay to sell anything lately (and am not going to after this either, man it's gotten bad).

After 8 days (I think it's 8), you can open an un-paid item dispute. Ebay will than send the buyer a payment reminder. If he doesn't respond to that after a certain amount of days, you can end the dispute. You will get the final value fee of the item refunded, and the buyer will get a strike on his account. I think it's three strikes, and his account gets suspended (and than he just makes a new one and keeps doing the same thing).

[SegaAges]

Ya, I saw your user id just now. Thanks for joining :) Let me know if you ever have any questions about the site or the community. We do have a video gaming magazine category. Maybe I could add to that Video gaming comics.

Time for me to hop into the bandwagon of supporting Chase.

I have not bought much from there, and have yet to sell, but I have had nothing but a good experience from them.

I am not promoting it, but just saying that if eBay is starting to suck ass, maybe some of the sellers should move to somewhere else.

eBay will never get better if you guys continually just file disputes and then call it a day. If eBay starts losing a significant amount of sellers because of getting screwed over, then eBay loses money, hence they will notice when they start losing money.

EDIT: And again, I do like to say stuff about sites other than eBay. I don't work for chase or Yahoo, so I can say that eBay fucks you guys over and it is complete bullshit that so many people have to deal with it.

Chase has a sister site for selling shit that is not games.

If we want the indie guys to survive and put a dent in eBay, we need to start using them and take a chance.

I support all the other non eBay sites as well.

Me, personally as a buyer, I buy what I want, based on what is on each site. If something is on Chase that I want, I buy it from there. If it is on eBay, I buy it from there. I am really not a seller on those sites, more a buyer. So from a buying perspective, I buy based off of what is available. If people went to cahse and any other site, I would probably use them much more.

[VG_Maniac]

Time for me to hop into the bandwagon of supporting Chase.

I have not bought much from there, and have yet to sell, but I have had nothing but a good experience from them.

I am not promoting it, but just saying that if eBay is starting to suck ass, maybe some of the sellers should move to somewhere else.

eBay will never get better if you guys continually just file disputes and then call it a day. If eBay starts losing a significant amount of sellers because of getting screwed over, then eBay loses money, hence they will notice when they start losing money.

EDIT: And again, I do like to say stuff about sites other than eBay. I don't work for chase or Yahoo, so I can say that eBay fucks you guys over and it is complete bullshit that so many people have to deal with it.

Chase has a sister site for selling shit that is not games.

If we want the indie guys to survive and put a dent in eBay, we need to start using them and take a chance.

I support all the other non eBay sites as well.

Me, personally as a buyer, I buy what I want, based on what is on each site. If something is on Chase that I want, I buy it from there. If it is on eBay, I buy it from there. I am really not a seller on those sites, more a buyer. So from a buying perspective, I buy based off of what is available. If people went to cahse and any other site, I would probably use them much more.

The problem is, depsite how lousy Ebay can be to its sellers, items get WAY more exposure on Ebay than they would on sites like ChasetheChuckWagon. That's why so many people use Ebay...not for their customer service, but because you will have much more success selling there than on any other auction site. A game I'm sellling may get 200 views in a week on Ebay...but that same game may only get 50 views or less in the same amount of time if listed anywhere else.

Another problem I have with ChasetheChuckWagon as a buyer, is that it's near impossible to get steals on items there. This is because almost everyone who sells on that site is a gamer who knows exactly what their games are worth, so they list them at much higher starting prices than someone on Ebay would who's just a clueless parent trying to clean out the "junk" from the house that their kids left behind when they moved out.

[mobiusclimber]

Bad examples. Yahoo is gone (except in Japan), Goodwill is only for GW retail stores, and you can only sell something on Amazon if it's already in the system (meaning it has a legit bar code/ISBN)

I sell on Amazon and I end up getting more money from those sales than I did from Ebay. There's no fees until the item sells (as I understand it), but I've signed up for the upgraded seller account which means I can make listings all day. As far as needing a legit bar code, you can make your own using any upc generator online. Like this one: http://www.export911.com/e911/coding/digiCalc.htm

I also wanted to say that I've had people not buy my stuff on CTCW after bidding (after doing a BIN, that is). There's NOTHING you can do about it on CTCW either.

[garagesaleking!!]

i have had many non payers recently, i have gone back and looked and out of the 4 or 5, 2 of their accounts say no longer registered members, i had a non payer with 900 feedback, that puzzled me?

[The 1 2 P]

Not to mention you can't leave negative comments in a positive feedback anymore. All it takes is one quick email complaint from the buyer and ebay will instantly remove it.

Damn, I didn't even know they started doing that. But honestly I'm not surprised. Ebay is in desperate need of a huge overhaul/reboot.

[mobiusclimber]

Ebay is just about dead. I don't have the numbers to back any of this up, but just from what I've seen lately there are less auctions for rare titles, non-BIN auctions have been selling for very cheap (in general), BIN auctions haven't been selling at all and FeePay has been raising their fees while constantly screwing over the sellers and screwing up entirely. A good example of them screwing up was their unveiling of the new search engine. It was (and still is) riddled with bugs and, worse, you almost need a degree in computer science to figure out how to get it to return results that are relevant to what you're searching for. You have to turn off "Best Match," set certain parameters in your configuration menu (forget what it's called) and half the time you still get a bunch of items that aren't relevant and have to put quotation marks around the words you're searching for so that only auctions with those words show up. Some sellers have reported that their auctions didn't show up in search results at all. So you pay listing fees yet your auctions don't show up and your item doesn't sell. Why not just flush that money down the toilet instead and save some time?

FeePay had gotten it into its collective head to try to be more like Amazon. The problem is that Amazon already exists and is doing just fine, thank you. The funny thing is, as soon as FeePay started to ape Amazon, Amazon changed some of its rule to entice FeePay sellers to jump ship. For instance, about a month after FeePay instituted it's no-negative-feedback-for-buyers rule, Amazon introduced buyer feedback complete with the ability to lob negatives! This really makes NO sense on Amazon since not even SELLER feedback is paid much attention to by most people.

Here's the thing: for all the stupid changes FeePay has implemented, they've only made the buying and selling experience worse, time and again. Amazon, on the other hand, continues to improve and to institute policies that protect everyone. Non-paying bidder? Doesn't happen on Amazon. If a seller gets banned they'd need a whole new bank account to join again. Too many complaints? You won't be selling for the Christmas season. Now they've announced they'll be forcing sellers to confirm shipment on every item sold. I don't totally agree with this new policy, but I'm certain it improves customer relations, something that FeePay might pay lip-service to, but really doesn't care about or even understand.

It probably sounds like I love Amazon (or that I work for them if you're a conspiracy nut), but I could name plenty of things I don't like about them, chiefly their inflated fees. Yet, I sell on Amazon, a lot, and make a lot of money from sales on there. Sure, some items take longer to sell... but considering the alternative is to list it on Ebay and either sell it for nothing or wait around forever with a BIN, paying exorbitant fees just to have it still not sell... I think I'll take Amazon every time. Their fees are offset by the higher amount that items sell for on there (most items).

I feel bad for all the "unique item" sellers that used to or still sell on FeePay. There's really no alternative for them. Yes, there are indie auction sites, but without the traffic, you might as well stick to yard sales.

[ryborg]

Good post mobius, I agree with most of it.


Ebay is just about dead.

Not a chance. Ebay's not nearly as strong as they were in the late '90s-early '00s, but they aren't going anywhere, even with all their faults.

As long as people like me can sit on their ass for a couple hours a week and make a good second income from it, people will still sell there, no matter our relatively petty complaints.


You have to turn off "Best Match," set certain parameters in your configuration menu (forget what it's called) and half the time you still get a bunch of items that aren't relevant and have to put quotation marks around the words you're searching for so that only auctions with those words show up.

Yeah, Best Match is concentrated garbage and setting it as the default search is probably the most egregious thing ebay has ever done.


Too many complaints? You won't be selling for the Christmas season.

It's not just having too many complaints; they actually temporarily suspend you if you don't have enough feedback. My girlfriend set up a store in October where she was selling complete, vintage My Little Ponies, Barbies and other 80s toys. She sold 5-6 items in two months and didn't receive any feedback, even though she shipped every item the very next day. Amazon pulled ALL of her listings at the end of November because they thought she was a threat. That's pretty ridiculous if you ask me, especially when you consider how much time she spent writing descriptions that were now deleted forever.


Now they've announced they'll be forcing sellers to confirm shipment on every item sold. I don't totally agree with this new policy, but I'm certain it improves customer relations, something that FeePay might pay lip-service to, but really doesn't care about or even understand.

I don't mind this policy, honestly, since you have to log on to your account to get the buyer's address anyway. It's just a simple mouse-click for the seller to put the buyer a little more at ease.


I think I'll take Amazon every time.

I would, but I sell mostly clothing and items that will never be in Amazon's system. I saw your post about the bar code generator, but it doesn't matter if it's not already in Amazon's system.

[mobiusclimber]

The point of the barcode generator is that you PUT the item into Amazon's system. You have to pay $40 a month for an upgraded seller account, so it's really not for everyone. I use it so that I can sell import games, which tend to sell for 4x what they'd sell for anywhere else. (The $40 a month does other things as well, for instance, no listing fee and your listings don't come down after three months.)

[ryborg]

The point of the barcode generator is that you PUT the item into Amazon's system. You have to pay $40 a month for an upgraded seller account, so it's really not for everyone. I use it so that I can sell import games, which tend to sell for 4x what they'd sell for anywhere else. (The $40 a month does other things as well, for instance, no listing fee and your listings don't come down after three months.)

Ah, I see. $40/m is quite a bit, but I guess it pays for itself if sales are high enough. I just don't think that people shop at Amazon for the things I sell though. I can see how selling imported games would be profitable however.

There isn't a listing fee for Amazon, and the listings stay up forever, as far as I know. You only pay a fee when an item sells, and I've had stuff listed for all of 2009, without doing anything different.

[mobiusclimber]

Last time I checked, which was before I signed up for the upgraded seller status, they charged $1 as a listing fee, but only collected it if/when the item sold, and listings on stay up for 3 months, but you can list them over again when the three months is up. They might have changed things around since then, no idea.