Chuckwagon & Ebay

[Kaboomer]

Hello Chuckwagon Community –

Let’s Gang Up on Ebay!

Now that I am sitting about a year and a half with the Chuckwagon let me try and explain some things and then ask you all a question. I see everyone complaining about Ebay in all the forums (not just this one) and I wonder why everyone continues to use and support them? I know they have more traffic than the Chuckwagon, but there is more for sale there to lure in the buyers. Makes sense.

So imagine for a moment if everyone on all the gaming forums decided to use something else. And then started moving all their auctions over to the Chuckwagon. Then all of a sudden we go from our stagnant 4,000+ auctions to 10,000+ auctions or more. Then the buyers will come. I can guarantee that.

Let me mention again that all our auctions are fed into what is called Google Base. What is this? This is Googles system to promote items for sale from a variety of sites. It works best when people type in specific items they are looking for - example - Sega Dreamcast Samba De Amigo. Go ahead, try it now. You will see a random list of these items for sale at different websites. We have all our items feed into their system at 6:00 AM each morning. And it has been working greatly to bring in the mom's the dad's the new collectors who see a Chuckwagon item they are specifically looking for, into the community to bid and buy these items.

So it is really a #'s game at this point. We have got past the awkward no activity level but now need to power through to the next level and it will take a % of you believing in it and to start using it in the same way you would normally use Ebay. The more items we have for sale, the more items will be fed into Google Base and the more people will join and bid and buy items. How much have you paid Ebay in the past 12 months? Add it up and ask yourself, why am I still paying this? I wasn't that big a seller and they were charging me $150-$200 each month. Crazy! Seriously, add up all you've sold the past year and then subtract your fees. How much are you REALLY making? I know most have never done that, but I bet you will be surprised.


I am also starting to spend considerable $ to advertise the site using Facebooks new pay per click advertising. It is very targeted and much better than using any of the search engine pay per clicks as they aren't very targeted.

The system is working nicely and stuff is selling. We have one member who has sold over $10,000 in merchandise and countless others who have sold a few thousand. You just have to make a decision to keep paying the Ebay fees or simply jump ship little by little and list some things on the Chuckwagon. Use both sites if you have too. Link your Chuckwagon store to your Ebay store. Cross promote your auction stores. It works.

Here is what I am willing to do. But I want to hear from you first. If I remove the selling/final value fees (3%, 2%, 1%) for the balance of the year will that be enough to entice you to list on the site? This would essentially let you use the site for free until the end of 2009. I will still have to keep the listing enhancement fees like homepage featured Items, category featured items, bold titles, high lighted listings and reserve fee auctions. But those are all cheap and should be only used to help make rare or more expensive listings stick out (except for the Reserve auction fee).

I really need the collector community to help burst to the next level. And that is 8,000-10,000 auctions by the end of the year. This will bring buyers into the market place for sure. You may have to relist common items a few times, but since it costs nothing to relist it shouldn't be an issue and I know you all relist items on Ebay all the time (while still being charged).

So what do you all think? Will you do this if I remove the selling fees? Please chime in and let me know and then we will make a decision to do this, or not.

Mike

[Baloo]

Hey, I would use it if you did that.

[Kaboomer]

Cool. Let's hope some more see it that way too. The Google Base thing really gets us all a lot of exposure. Come on guys let's really get on this. How much does Ebay charge you each month? Let's make all that disappear.

[smork]

I'd probably use you, yeah. I'd like to sell some stuff (I don't sell much of anything now) and I am fearful of the horror stories on ebay. I like the idea of your site, I just don't use it right now.

So yep, I'd be in.

[mobiusclimber]

I complain about FeePay all the time but I don't use them anymore. So I've got my pass.

[Kaboomer]

I complain about FeePay all the time but I don't use them anymore. So I've got my pass.

Cool. Doesn't it feel good. I sometime just get crazy seeing all the people listing on Ebay and promoting them here in this forum and then I go in and look at their auction links and with like minutes to go see no bids on dozens of items. Then I see them all relisted again. Ebay loves this , Chaching!

I mean look at some of the people in this forum and their auctions lisitngs. They keep bumping the threads and bumping the threads and are seeing little to no bids. Yet they keep relisting and relisting and relisting. And Ebay keeps charging and charging and charging. Makes me wonder all the time.

Example -Free plug for you Rask :) - http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/rask1904 - I see these types of posts on every forum, every day. Think of all the $ Ebay is making for this stuff that doesn't sell. Then they get it again when the stuff gets relisted. Wonder Wonder Wonder :)

It's funny because if someone had a list of items like RASK's close with on bids on the Chuckwagon they assume it's not working but when they have a bunch of items close on Ebay with no bids, they just relist and relist and relist thinking nothing of it and Ebay is laughing all the way to the bank. Ebay's massive community doesn't really seem to me panning out if you ask me.

And the proof is obvious on the pages of this forum each and every day. Fact.

[Chemdawg]

chuckwagon maybe nicer but honestly i doubt ill ever use it. not only does ebay have like times 100 bigger selection but you can find some good deals there sometimes.for example, castlevania gets like 1000's of finds on ebay, on chuckwagon, i got like 9 .... nuff said

[Cryomancer]

But that is the logic that allows ebay to still have a nigh-monopoly on the auction scene. It's the classic "no one's on the server" thing you see in online games for example. No one joins because the server is empty. If you join the server and wait, others will too. Eventually you have a packed house.

Anyway, I'm all for ebay getting some competition, especially niche competition like this. I am done with ebay now due to the performance on my last few auctions, at least done for selling. Next time I sell something site-relevant I'm gonna use chuckwagon, see how that goes. If it's nice I'll probably continue using it.

[Kaboomer]

There have been plenty of good deals on the Chuckwagon. I can assure you that :)

[Chemdawg]

im sure there are deals on chuck, but I ment there are just a lot more on ebay. I rarely even find the game im looking for on chuck let alone find a deal on it. this might be the logic that keeps ebay running big, but its also just the way things are, to the average person ebay is more convenient.

[VG_Maniac]

But that is the logic that allows ebay to still have a nigh-monopoly on the auction scene. It's the classic "no one's on the server" thing you see in online games for example. No one joins because the server is empty. If you join the server and wait, others will too. Eventually you have a packed house.

The problem with that, is some people make a living on Ebay...and can't afford to start selling on other auction sites like Chuckwagon and "wait" for it to get more popular. It's just a fact, your items will get way more exposure on Ebay than they ever could on Wagon. Also, mostly just people inside the gaming community really know about ChasetheChuckWagon...while the entire world knows about Ebay. There's just no way to even begin competing against that.

[RASK1904]

I saw my name thrown out there. And yes I have thought of selling over there. I was actually invited over there. So I went checked it out I have bought but not sold, and it seems.... not really conducive for how I run my auctions. How I do it is kinda crazy. I start everything at .99. Usually EVERYTHING! This is good when its good and very bad when it's bad. So I depend on the masses of people seeing them and going hey I'd pay that much. I think somethings only worth what someone will pay for it. I do the .99 to dodge the listing fees. And you really can't dodge Paypal not for the safety and security. So how about this next time I will do the same kind of auction on CTCW. Then I will come back and then we will see. I still don't think it would be good for how I run mine. It's more for people who list them for just under what there worth. But also on the other hand I think if me and some other people put stuff up there it could get way better. I do think about this because I do hate Ebay. Especially the No Negativing Buyers! NEVER?! WTF?

OK so now I don't want to argue about this and that. I will try it. We will see. Give me a week or 3 becuase this weekend is
Comic-con!
oh buy the way I don't really relist. I'll take it to the swap meet and sell them cheap. Then the stuff that wont even sell there I take to one of the video game vendors that I like and trade him a box of crap for 2 or 3 games I want/need kinda stuff. Old stuff no one wants is no bueno. Rinse wash repeat. I do do ok. Some people might laugh or talk trash about how I do it but it save me time and money. It works for me!

[Bojay1997]

The problem with that, is some people make a living on Ebay...and can't afford to start selling on other auction sites like Chuckwagon and "wait" for it to get more popular. It's just a fact, your items will get way more exposure on Ebay than they ever could on Wagon. Also, mostly just people inside the gaming community really know about ChasetheChuckWagon...while the entire world knows about Ebay. There's just no way to even begin competing against that.

Sadly, this is 100% true. While I think competition is good, ultimately, Chuckwagon is just not actually competition to Ebay. If anything, it's competition to all the marketplace forums on sites like DP, Atari Age and the handful of others that those of us who collect frequent. To be a successful competitor to Ebay, you have to offer everything it does and something more. Just offering lower listing fees is not the way to build a successful auction site, especially when to people who are buyers, it doesn't really matter. In fact, I would argue that to most sellers the lower insertion and final value fees are not really that big of an incentive when you can easily get much higher prices for your items on Ebay. Saving 10% on fees when your item goes for 30%-50% less is a very poor incentive.

Ebay is far from perfect, but now that they are offering Ebay bucks and incentives through sites like Ebates, as well as continuing rebates on Bing/Live Cashback, plus coupons through Paypal every few months, there are actually some significant financial reasons for buyers to choose to buy on Ebay. Heck, they have even improved their dispute handling to the point where I got a full refund 48 hours after reporting an item not as described complaint two weeks ago and as far as I can tell, Paypal/Ebay just went ahead and paid the refund themselves.

Chuckwagon doesn't offer any services that Ebay doesn't and frankly, they don't have the financial or fraud prevention resources that Ebay does, so I don't really get why buyers would be that interested in using it. It seems like the only incentive for buyers is that there are bargains over Ebay, and if that's the case, it's a great reason for sellers to avoid Chuckwagon as well since that means lower profit margins. It might be time to face the cold hard facts that a real competitor may challenge Ebay at some point, but it's going to be a well funded competitor backed with millions of dollars in resources and not some dude working part-time out of his house.

[Cinder6]

Ya know, at this point, finding a "really good deal" on what I'm collecting just isn't happening, thanks to what I'm buying. So from now on, I think I'm going to check Chuck Wagon first, before eBay. If a lot of sellers get in on this, I think it'd be a great thing. It's sort of a chicken and the egg problem, but a plunge still needs to be made.

[Fuyukaze]

As someone who has only sold items maybe 10 times in the past 8 years, the ebay fees havent been much of an issue so even with seller fees removed that wouldnt have much of an impact. I buy mostly on the other hand and the only problems I have so far are completly beyond your control. As is right now, most of the games I want can be had cheaper on ebay or only thru ebay.

[Kaboomer]

It's funny how eveyone has a different take on this. Some people think you get better deals on Ebay and some people think you get better deals on the Chuckwagon because there isn't as much traffic. I have heard contradictions all along on what people think.

The facts are our site mirrors Ebay in many ways. Somtimes things sell high, sometimes things sell low. Sometimes things listed don't sell and require relisting, same thing on Ebay. Ebay has more traffic but on the Chuckwagon your items won't have as much competition and instead of getting dinghed 15-18% you are dinged 3%. There are lots of advantages to selling on the Chuckwagon and no reason for buyers not to look regularly at what is for sale because we do get tons of great items. And like I said Google Base is really a cool thing that makes our community much bigger by opening seller's auctions up to everyone searching for items on Google.

Thankfully most people want to see the Chuckwagon succeed and are seeing Ebay for what it is turning into. Check out the other forums and see what people are saying. As for me being one guy working out of my house. That really has nothing to do with it. There have been pleny of large businesses started this same way. It is my goal to make the Chuckwagon the #1 vid game buy/sell destination on the web and that is what it will become. Give me 5 years and you will see. And I am not sitting back just waiting for this to happen, I am driving it's growth in many ways always seeking out strategic partnerships with other larger gaming entities and sooner or later one will bite. And when it does, eveyone will know about this little site and it will become the first place people think of when buying and selling video games. Trust me, there is alot going on behind the scenes that will go along way to helping me accomplish this goal. Count yourself very lucky if you bought or were gifted one of our "free lifetime seller" accounts because they will be gold in the future.

The site has grown remarkably well and most thought it would never get this far. And the main stream press will pick it up eventually. Just give it time. We've only been around for 16 months. So for now, we've sold over $125,000which seems pretty good to me and people keep signing up each day. We will hit 3,000 members in the next 60 days and 4,000 members in our first two years if things continue to averge out. Not to shabby. And check out our Alexa and Quantcast statistics. Most who are in the know about these have told me point blank that this type of growth, especially with a company run on a tight budget, is pretty amazing. And even though our registered member base is nearly 3,000 we have anywhere from 15,000-20,000 unique visitors visit the site each month (and growing). This means people are searching the site and they register when they see something they want. Since we've launched we have had over 1,600,000 item views where someone clicks into view an item. The search engines are bringing in people left and right as we are positioned at the top now for search terms related to video game auctions. It all takes time and that is all.

Every place has to start from nothing and we have rolled through that stage and are contiuing to grow each day. And on top of that, the Chuckwagon is growing in other directions as well - we are now more than just an auction site - we offer forums, gaming chats, original blogs. We have our own streaming radio station and cartoon series. It's a community that is building over and above the auction site and there is no other site in the sea of me-to gaming communities like us.

http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=231133

http://nintendoage.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=3&threadid=21436

http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=147478

[megasdkirby]

Quote from CheapAssGamer user:


No.

The user base on eBay is absolutely massive compared to your tiny website, which means many, many more potential buyers on eBay, which means more bids and higher selling prices, especially for things that aren't going for a lot of money.

Wow, what a dick response. I can tell he only cares about money than anything else. Yet he also forgets that high selling prices are due to people being super desperate when they want something. For example, that $75 Montezuma's Revege for SMS.

[Kaboomer]

Ya, if what he was saying carried any weight we woudn't have got as far as we have. Clearly he's never used the Chuckwagon.

[Kaboomer]

I saw my name thrown out there. And yes I have thought of selling over there. I was actually invited over there. So I went checked it out I have bought but not sold, and it seems.... not really conducive for how I run my auctions. How I do it is kinda crazy. I start everything at .99. Usually EVERYTHING! This is good when its good and very bad when it's bad. So I depend on the masses of people seeing them and going hey I'd pay that much. I think somethings only worth what someone will pay for it. I do the .99 to dodge the listing fees. And you really can't dodge Paypal not for the safety and security. So how about this next time I will do the same kind of auction on CTCW. Then I will come back and then we will see. I still don't think it would be good for how I run mine. It's more for people who list them for just under what there worth. But also on the other hand I think if me and some other people put stuff up there it could get way better. I do think about this because I do hate Ebay. Especially the No Negativing Buyers! NEVER?! WTF?

OK so now I don't want to argue about this and that. I will try it. We will see. Give me a week or 3 becuase this weekend is
Comic-con!
oh buy the way I don't really relist. I'll take it to the swap meet and sell them cheap. Then the stuff that wont even sell there I take to one of the video game vendors that I like and trade him a box of crap for 2 or 3 games I want/need kinda stuff. Old stuff no one wants is no bueno. Rinse wash repeat. I do do ok. Some people might laugh or talk trash about how I do it but it save me time and money. It works for me!

Hey no problem, we all have to do what it best for us but you may want to try it out sometime. Maybe take the stuff that isn't selling on Ebay and try it over here, you've nothing to lose. Have fun at Comic-Con. I need to get down there one of these years for sure.

[jb143]

Another thing might be that many people don't just sell games. When I was selling on eBay(and I sold a lot since it was my main stream of income) I sold every random thing I could come across and cross promoted my items. I had people buy a game and some other item many times because they could get both for less factoring in combined shipping. Also, I guess it wouldn't have taken too much extra trouble to list the games on a different site, but it was a lot easier to manage everything from one "items sold" page. Also, I know around Christmas time for example, sellers want a huge pool of potential buyers. I know quite a few of the game systems I sold didn't go to collectors but to someone who was buying it for their husband who grew up with the system. That's something that eBay will always have over niche markets.

I do think it's great to have other options though and will probally keep you in mind the next time I have some games to sell.

[Bojay1997]

Thankfully most people want to see the Chuckwagon succeed and are seeing Ebay for what it is turning into. Check out the other forums and see what people are saying. As for me being one guy working out of my house. That really has nothing to do with it. There have been pleny of large businesses started this same way. It is my goal to make the Chuckwagon the #1 vid game buy/sell destination on the web and that is what it will become. Give me 5 years and you will see. And I am not sitting back just waiting for this to happen, I am driving it's growth in many ways always seeking out strategic partnerships with other larger gaming entities and sooner or later one will bite. And when it does, eveyone will know about this little site and it will become the first place people think of when buying and selling video games. Trust me, there is alot going on behind the scenes that will go along way to helping me accomplish this goal. Count yourself very lucky if you bought or were gifted one of our "free lifetime seller" accounts because they will be gold in the future.

Look, I'm all about supporting the underdog, but there are certain business challenges that just can't be overcome in the real world. There are certainly lots of business which have been started by people running a business solo out of their garage, but in a situation like this where you are taking on the world's largest auction site, you need a significant amount of capital and frankly a significant competitive edge that makes your site substantially better than what the much larger competitor offers. You were sort of on to something when you were getting exclusive auction items that were super rare and almost never showed up on Ebay. Unfortunately, unless this becomes a weekly thing, it won't drive traffic. As it stands now, you literally offer nothing that Ebay doesn't and you don't offer any of the financial incentives or sheer volume of items that Ebay does for buyers.

You don't have five years. You probably have another six months. If your site doesn't catch on within the first two years, the chances of it ever becoming popular are about zero. You can talk all you want about strategic partnerships and advertising, but the real proof is in your profitability and $125K in sales which results in roughly $4,000 in net revenue to you is less than you would make if you held down a paper route for a year. I have no problem with people pursuing their dreams, but I do feel an obligation to say something when a business person is simply flushing time and money down the drain which could be better used in other ways with other business ventures.

[Kaboomer]

I guess only time will tell :) But for now it's a great gaming site and something that is working for those that choose to use it. My first goal was to create an alternative for gamers to buy and sell amongst each other and that goal has been accomplished. How big it gets from here on out is anybody's guess. Thankfully, I have a "real" full time job that also gives me the financial freedom to run the Chuckwagon at the same time. Couple that with the fact the site is very inexpensive to run and is continuing to grow - I see nothing but success for the Chuckwagon well into the future.

And considering Ebay generates around $300 Million in revenue from video games sales alone I would be happy to get 1/10 of 1% ($300,000/year) of that if you know what I mean. And with a goal like that I think it's very achievable.

[darkslime]

Quote from CheapAssGamer user:



Wow, what a dick response. I can tell he only cares about money than anything else. Yet he also forgets that high selling prices are due to people being super desperate when they want something. For example, that $75 Montezuma's Revege for SMS.I don't see how that is a dick response. It is true. I sell on ebay to make money, and chuckwagon won't make me as much money on anything other than rare stuff, so why would I use it?

[Wookie]

I don't see how that is a dick response. It is true. I sell on ebay to make money, and chuckwagon won't make me as much money on anything other than rare stuff, so why would I use it?

Because competition helps keep prices (I'm referring to the price you pay in fees to the auction site) low. It's no coincidence that ebay's fees have taken a big jump since yahoo auctions folded. That trend will continue, and coupled with ebay's increasingly hostile attitude towards both small sellers and the auction format in general, you'd be helping yourself by helping keep CTCW viable.

[megasdkirby]

I don't see how that is a dick response. It is true. I sell on ebay to make money, and chuckwagon won't make me as much money on anything other than rare stuff, so why would I use it?

Not about the comment, but the way he said it.

Basically he was acting like a cocky SOB, yet he could have said the same thing in a nicer way.

[RASK1904]

Hey Kabooom! hows this for a CTCW auction?

http://www.chasethechuckwagon.com/item.cgi?show_item=0000187570

Is this how I should do it?

[Kaboomer]

Looking good. And a bid already. I hope this one works out for you :) Thanks for listing a killer item !! I will post about it on the Chuckwagon forums as well.

[RASK1904]

Cool. Looks good.

[Kaboomer]

Cool. Looks good.

And a bidding war has commenced ! It also brought in a new user yesterday to bid on it, too.

[megasdkirby]

Rask, advertise like crazy! If you do so, on several places, it may become an "Ebay like" bidding war, which can net you a plethora of cash!

I will do that as well for my listings. :)

[RASK1904]

I actually googled Magical Chase Chase the Chuckwagon and it seems a couple other web sites have posted that it's up on chase the Chuckwagon. It is an extremely rare game. Like Videogame Rarity.com? I'm over at NA almost as often as here so they know and I have an acount at AA posted it there and here of course. If anyone else has there own website and wants to promote the auction of a very rare game please feel free to help me out.

[RASK1904]

I'm going to try it out. Gone will be the .99 starting price though. I will have to look up the going prices of everything. Then price them 2 dollars less with a very reasonable shipping, until the traffic picks up. Thats usually where my auctions end on Ebay. But I'll try it out.

What do you think?

[megasdkirby]

I'm going to try it out. Gone will be the .99 starting price though. I will have to look up the going prices of everything. Then price them 2 dollars less with a very reasonable shipping, until the traffic picks up. Thats usually where my auctions end on Ebay. But I'll try it out.

What do you think?

I do something very similar. When I have something for sale, I usually base myself on Ebay pricing and then lower the price accordingly. For example, if a rare game goes for $50, I willl put it for $35-$40 on CTC, sometimes with free shipping.

I've gotten hits, so I'm happy.