2.5D : We need more of this [2D Gameplay, 3D Graphics]

[Crazycarl]

Over the weekend I booted up my PS3 and decided to play Bionic Commando: Rearmed. This sat for a while, but once i started, I just could not put this game down. I love the fact that I got my old school challenge (the "one more time" syndrome) back, with the nice new controls and graphics. So I was wondering what games people would want brought back in this new "2.5D" style? I'll start it off by putting Mega Man X in the hat.

[IronBuddha]

Castlevania.

[Ed Oscuro]

2.5D actually refers to psuedo-3D, like DOOM or Duke Nukem 3D.

But since you lured me in, I dunno. We're getting to the point where PC systems can do good enough looking 3D to compete with hand-drawn stuff (and much more cheaply too), but the cinematic feel and looks of the strict 2D medium are a large reason why anybody still bothers with it, so best not to screw it up with DOOM III slime map rendering or whatever. It's not that the side view (or top view, or 3/4 view, or below-the-belt view, et c.) precludes using 3D...it's just that I like it not to look lousy AND (even more important) play lousy. The good 2D games make positioning count, and "sort of accurate" FPS hitboxes and collision don't pass muster in side view games.

Trine looks pretty okay, although not "prettiest ever."


Castlevania.
What's there left to do in 2D? It's been wanting to be an action flick for years, and the Lords of Shadow type game looks set to finally deliver on that promise (been waiting for a truly cinematic Castlevania since at least 99, haven't we?) in 3D. SotN was pretty and stuff but set a standard that was never again met (actually I would put Rondo in its place, considering how I don't give two craps about SotN's gameplay, although I'm sure Konami is starting to feel wistfully about the quaint small production costs of SotN now).

[j_factor]

2.5D actually refers to psuedo-3D, like DOOM or Duke Nukem 3D.

2.5D also refers to games with 3D graphics but entirely 2D gameplay, like Clockwork Knight, Pandemonium, Wild 9, etc.

2.5D is fine, but I don't think it's really "necessary" over just 2D.

[Nirvana]

Street Fighter IV and King of Fighters XII take this route. I love the look for fighting games.

[BetaWolf47]

Street Fighter IV and King of Fighters XII take this route. I love the look for fighting games.

I thought KoF XII was completely 2D?

Grr, I hate 2.5D. You can either have highly detailed 2D graphics or semi-decent 3D graphics for a sidescrolling game. I'll take 2D anyday.

[djbeatmongrel]

Street Fighter IV and King of Fighters XII take this route. I love the look for fighting games.

KoF Xii is 2d. you may be thinking KoF Maximum Impact and Maximum impact 2 (kof 2006 in the states).

[jb143]

2.5D actually refers to psuedo-3D, like DOOM or Duke Nukem 3D.


If wikipedia has any merit, it looks like 2.5D is a pretty broad term and does includes 3D platforming games the OP is talking about. It also includes isometric view 2D games and parallax scrolling. I'm not too convenced that Doom should be included, while the bsp tree is 2D, it's mainly just used to tell what order to draw the walls in 3D space. When I hear 2.5D though, I generally think of games like Wolfenstein 3D.

[PapaStu]

Don't forget Tomba! and Tomba! 2 and the Klonoa series.

[Ed Oscuro]

If wikipedia has any merit
Wiki defines 2.5D as fake 3D (at least it did when I checked it out). I really wanted to leave this one alone, but what some people here are calling 2.5D I just call 3D sidescrollers. A game like trine is actually no-foolin' full-3D; you just don't have any pitch, roll, or yaw control of the camera (you just indirectly track it along a 2D plane). Nothing 2.5D about fully polygonal graphics, unless some joker wants to call non-stereoscopic, or non-holographic games 2.5D (which I'm sure will happen someday and which will give cause for the people who are saying 3D sidescrollers 2.5D to RUE THE DAY :deadhorse: )


I'm not too convenced that Doom should be included, while the bsp tree is 2D, it's mainly just used to tell what order to draw the walls in 3D space.
DOOM's "3D" engine doesn't have the ability to transform polygons through 3D space. Not even Build does (unless you count Voxels as seen in Blood).

[ScourDX]

New Super Mario Bros is 2.5D. It looks good even for DS.

[jb143]

I think the terms are just a little vaguely defined. One of these days people may say that 3D games today aren't really 3D because they're shown on a 2D screen instead of projected into real 3D space.

[kupomogli]

I think of 2.5d as 3d graphics and 2d gameplay. Castlevania Dracula X Chronicles was mentioned, as was Mega Man X, but I'll also throw in Prinny Can I Really Be the Hero, Mega Man Powered Up, and Viewtiful Joe. For fighter's I'll throw in the Smash Bros series since that's a fighter that hasn't been messaged that's 2.5d.

Other than good RPGs, games like Castlevania, Metroid, Mega Man, Astyanax, etc, are my favorite types of games. Pretty much anything that's a side scrolling platformer that has atleast some decent gameplay at the same time.

There is this game for the 360 by Epic that I can't remember the name, but it's kindof like Metroid and the new style Castlevania games except done in 3d.

Full 3d games are good as well. Mirror's Edge, Devil May Cry, Ninja Gaiden, etc, but being a fan of old school style games, I pick up pretty much any 2.5d platformer that is released.

[roushimsx]

I personally think that this newly expanded definition of 2.5d to include 2d sidescrollers with 3d graphics kind of blows. I mean, it blows as hard as calling a fantasy action adventure with no RPG elements as an RPG while shunning a modern day sandbox game with numerous major RPG elements simply because of its setting.

Also, I think we very much do need more games like Doom and Duke Nukem 3D. Someone needs to get Atari on the horn and get Blood on XBLA. I'm sure Sunstorm and Apogee would like to pull in the money from getting Duke Caribbean and Duke it Out in DC as well (especially since Duke Nukem 3D apparently did pretty well). Hell, given how much fun Wolfenstein 3D still is, it'd be nice to get Spear of Destiny on XBLA/PSN. What about Doom II w/ online co op? Sign me the fuck up.

New games built on improved versions of the Doom and Duke Nukem 3D engines would be great, too. There's a near endless stream of high quality Doom TCs that show how much can be done with fairly limited technology and it's a design style that I personally really enjoy (much like sidescrollers, fully 3d FPS or isometric action adventures).

Oh, and can we please get an XBLA port of Blake Stone and Planet Strike? Will pay 1600points each if they control as well as Wolfenstein 3D on 360 does.

[NayusDante]

Don't forget Kirby 64.

[j_factor]

I personally think that this newly expanded definition of 2.5d to include 2d sidescrollers with 3d graphics kind of blows.

Newly expanded? That's the definition of 2.5D as I've understood it, for many years. In fact I heard that definition before I heard it applied to first-person shooters.

[Nirvana]

Oops. Damn, I don't know why I thought KoF XII was 2.5d. I watched a ton of videos on it weeks ago and watching them again I realized that they are in fact just 2D.

[Sonicwolf]

Is there any set-in-stone defintion of 2.5d? Is it like... Paper Mario?

[Solertia]

I've always seen 2.5D as (as others have said) 3D graphics with 2D gameplay.

[Buns34]

Shadow Complex!!!

[kupomogli]

There is this game for the 360 by Epic that I can't remember the name, but it's kindof like Metroid and the new style Castlevania games except done in 3d.


Shadow Complex!!!

This is the game. Looks amazing. One of the only newer exclusives I'd to own a 360 again for. The fact that it's DLC only though dismisses that.

[jb143]

Newly expanded? That's the definition of 2.5D as I've understood it, for many years. In fact I heard that definition before I heard it applied to first-person shooters.

I think the first place I heard the term 2.5D was in an old programming book to describe raycasting engines like Wolfenstein 3D. It's fake 3D. All data in the game is 2 dimesional, it's drawn to apear 3D.(hence the .5) I don't have a problem with adding newer 3D games with 2D gameplay to the mix though.

[Crazycarl]

hmm... Yea so it seams that I started a debate on the definition of "2.5D". I'm personally going off of the modern idea of 2.5D were it's taking 3D background and models while on a 2D plane. At least that's the definition I'm going with for this discussion lol.

Examples I can think of is Bionic Commando: Rearmed, and Trine

[Ro-J]

I remember when the original King's Quest, in all it's EGA glory, was referred to as 3D because you were able to move in front of a tree AND behind it, all on the same screen. It was revolutionary.

All of this 2.5D talk is confusing me.

[DKTheArcadeRat]

Over the weekend I booted up my PS3 and decided to play Bionic Commando: Rearmed. This sat for a while, but once i started, I just could not put this game down. I love the fact that I got my old school challenge (the "one more time" syndrome) back, with the nice new controls and graphics. So I was wondering what games people would want brought back in this new "2.5D" style? I'll start it off by putting Mega Man X in the hat.

2.5D is awesome. I would very much enjoy a new 2.5D Castlevania.

Splosion Man also looks awesome and is 2.5D I believe.

More important question...when did Carl start posting again?

[Rickstilwell1]

Sonic would be much better if it switched back to 2D gameply for the entire game. 2.5D could make it look good enough to appeal to current gen gamers. They just really need to work on level layouts. The classic level layouts and the ones in the first Sonic Advance were better. Sonic Advance 2 wasn't terrible but Sonic Advance 3 was where it started to get ugly.

Mega Man has always been good in 2D. It's nice to see some Mario games and Wario games being 2D on a console. If Nintendo's new company for Donkey Kong could try making a 2D Donkey Kong game with the various Kongs in DKC style, that would be nice too. You figure if RARE could do it right before, somebody should be good enough to copy it themselves. Maybe even Nintendo's Mario programmers should try their hands at Donkey Kong platforming and see how it goes.

Sega could also bring back old IPs and actually succeed if they did their returns in 2.5D. Then they wouldn't have to create a completely new style of gameplay either.

A lot of us miss our old sidescrollers.

[NayusDante]

Sega could also bring back old IPs and actually succeed if they did their returns in 2.5D. Then they wouldn't have to create a completely new style of gameplay either.

How about a Strider remake? There's not enough games with slashing these days...

[SegaAges]

Well, do the day missions of Sonic unleashed count?

I thought that capcom had some fighters that were 2.5d.

[chrisbid]

games with 3D graphics and 2D playfields sound ok in theory, but in practice i cannot say i am a fan. controls always seem to be an issue with these games. take new super mario bros, the controls were mushy to the point where the entire game was ruined. there are examples that control better than new smb, but there is not an example of a "2.5D" game that controls as well as the best controlling 2D games on the NES and Genesis.

[Matt-El]

Pick up "Strider 2" for PSX. Excellent 2.5D game.


How about a Strider remake? There's not enough games with slashing these days...

[Baloo]

I like 2.5D, I think it combines good gameplay with good graphics, but they need to execute it just right. For example, New Super Mario Bros. The game played and looked great, but it didn't really feel like I was playing a Super Mario Bros. game. It felt more like Super Mario 64 in 2D, and not like SMB3 or SMW like it should have in my opinion.

2.5D is a great idea, just needs to be executed well, especially if you are making sequels for games like Castlevania, Super Mario Bros, Sonic, etc.

[djbeatmongrel]

I really don't care either way but I am hesitant when it comes to fighters in 2.5D. Scenes of Street Fighter EX pop into my head and give me nightmares. I tend to be more of a traditionalist when it comes to fighters