Retailers comments on downloadable content droppping rare games value

[Technosis]

I know this topic has been discussed a million times, but I thought I'd share a comment made by a game store employee. I asked about the trade in value of Marvel vs. Capcom 2 for the PS2. I had the luck of finding 2 in the wild within a week of each other.

He stated that the price was likely declining due to the downloadable content (X-Box 360 Live???). He still offered $52 dollars in store credit, which is somewhat OK since this area is hard hit by the recession and games for sale are dirt cheap.

Is there really any solid proof that downloadable content drops the value of the rarer titles?

Thanks in advance!

[heybtbm]

Keep in mind that my evidence is completely anecdotal...

I've noticed all cartridge based games (N64 and back) have been getting ridiculously cheap at the used games stores around here (Madison, WI). With a few obvious exceptions, most are half or a third of their prices a year or two ago. I've been wondering if this is the result of the Wii's VC titles and XBLA remakes.

I haven't noticed MvC2 lowering yet. Still seems to be $79.99 everywhere (mom/pop stores and Gamestop/EB).

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

If you follow the pattern of logic that the genuine rarity/scarcity of a product (in this case a video game) that is in high demand drives the "market value" - the immediate availability and low cost of DLC versions of games on Wii, 360, PS3, Steam, etc. should depress the market value of physical copies of used games.

I believe that we've seen pretty quantifiable instances of this recently with very mainstream popular/valuable titles like Castlevania Symphony of the Night. (or even more niche titles like Ikaruga, Sin & Punishment, etc.)

While I might have been relatively interested in owning a copy of MvsC2 on PS2 a year or so ago, I would never pay the inflated pricing that the eBay/used market demanded of it, but I'll gladly spend $15 - $20 on the PSN version when that launches.

And of course, one should always factor in that the core of this equation is whether or not the people driving and maintaining the market value are people interested in PLAYING the game ... a title like Chase the Chuck Wagon for 2600 hasn't maintained a high market value due to what an awesome game it is, it's stayed valuable due to scarcity and the high percentage of purist "collectors" in the realm of 2600 gamers. A DLC release of this title on 360, PS3 and Wii ... even with added online play and custom soundtracks isn't going to send the market value of that game into a downward spiral.

I don't think that most of the public who want a copy of MvsC2 for PS2 are interested in it strictly for the purposes of their collection, they want to play it - and in the case of the DLC, all signs at present point to it being a superior product as well as much cheaper.

Additionally, DLC versions of games often times have the effect of causing the more casual collector to rush out and sell their rare/valuable title with the knowledge that they'll be able to soon obtain a cheaper, better version that plays on their modern console ... and this much like people selling valuable stocks off en'masse causes the market value of these games to bottom out due to the supply in the wild suddenly being able to meet the demand.

Lots to take into consideration, but I think that there's enough going on to support the theory that yes, DLC versions of rare, popular titles do have a direct effect on the used market value.

Supply > Demand = low/declining value
Supply = Demand = stable value
Supply < Demand = high/increasing value

[Bojay1997]

I don't think it has much impact on the collector's market, but it certainly reduces the number of people walking into used game shops buying games which are more in demand simply to play them. Eventually, this should have an impact on pricing, but a lot of collectors will never see the benefit, simply because lots of people collect complete or mint or sealed stuff which really seems to be separate from the loose cart and download market.

[Baloo]

Frankie pretty much explained it all. When a rare game such as Marvel Vs. Capcom 2 gets reprinted, the overall value will go down due to demand being satisfied.

[GameDeals.ca]

Without a doubt. FF7 is the best example... used to be that it would sell at about $70-$90 depending on version/condition within days of putting it on the shelf, then it hit PSN for $10. Now it's at $60 and takes a few weeks to sell, while we repeatedly hear "Just buy it on your PS3 from the online thing".

The casual consumer that buys to play the game outnumbers the hardcore collector more than 10-1 in real life (defined as outside of collector forums like this one).

When given these 2 options, you tell me which one will be more appealing to the casual consumer:

1. Drive across town to a game store that's only open certain hours. Hope to find the game you're looking for. Hope it's not too scratched (disc) or that it works (cartridge). Hope you can find the old console to play it on (that still works). Make sure to have the right cables to plug it into your new fancy big-ass TV. Drive home & enjoy.

2. Download it for cheaper from the comfort of your home at any time, and play it on the console you already own and have set up, knowing that it will work properly. Not only did you save time & money, but you went for the environmentally friendly option so you get to feel good about yourself.

Not hard to see what the majority will pick. This in turn will drop prices and be beneficial for collectors looking to find these games in the wild, on the other hand it is going to be brutal for local Mom & Pop game stores that don't adapt to the changing market.

[chrisbid]

demand is the driving factor in price not rarity, though rarity can be a reason that drives demand, it is not the factor itself

[sidnotcrazy]

I think nothing will replace the feeling of having an actual copy of game. I do like the downloadables, and think that it is a very good thing people can enjoy Sin & Punishment, Ikaruga, and Rez without droping the cash for them.

But I think true collectors will always prize those elusive titles,

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

demand is the driving factor in price not rarity, though rarity can be a reason that drives demand, it is not the factor itself

"demand" is certainly important in the equation, but rarity absolutely can affect the market value of video games.

While I do admit that this may not so much be the case with modern titles - I have to fall back on the example of many valuable commercially released Atari 2600 era titles.

If there is any "demand" amongst collectors who have paid upwards of THOUSANDS of dollars for those titles I don't think it has anything to do with a desire to play the games or any reason other than to have an incredibly rare/minuscule production run title in their collection.

[duffmanth]

I think it's too early to tell if downloadable versions of rare games is truly causing their disc/cartridge based counterparts to drop in value? Around where I live (big city ON) FFVII is still going for $50 minumum for the greatest hits version, and $100 for the black label version. I think there will always be a demand among people like me for (and who prefers) the physical game. Personally if there is an older game that is rare, or getting rarer, like a black label Metal Gear Solid, I would like to have the download and the physical copy.

My personal best guess though is downloadable versions of rare games will probably drive down the value of their physical copies over time, it's just a question of how much and how long it will take for this to truly start having an impact on prices and value?

[DreamTR]

I don't see FFVII going for that much on eBay anymore. I am sure it has been affected by the PSN Network release.

[Sonicwolf]

I don't see FFVII going for that much on eBay anymore. I am sure it has been affected by the PSN Network release.

Thank god because the FFVII prices have been pretty ridiculous for a while now.

[Greg2600]

I don't see demand change, as a result of downloads/reprints, really causing an affect in price. Perhaps, over time, for auctions, but sites like ebay are flooded with B.I.N.'s at comically high prices. That in and of itself forces sellers to start the bidding higher, and buyers to falsely establish a price based on a ceiling taken from those BIN's.

[Sonicwolf]

I don't see demand change, as a result of downloads/reprints, really causing an affect in price. Perhaps, over time, for auctions, but sites like ebay are flooded with B.I.N.'s at comically high prices. That in and of itself forces sellers to start the bidding higher, and buyers to falsely establish a price based on a ceiling taken from those BIN's.

Have you not noticed the price crash in Super Mario RPG game cartridges? Its been a pretty good fall in prices on eBay since SMRPG was released on the VC.

[unwinddesign]

DLC releases devalue the original game. Whether this is a permanent deflation or one that only lasts for 2- 3 years remains to be seen.

Marvel vs. Capcom 2 on Dreamcast was worth maybe $55 - $60 in April. When the DLC was announced, it began to drop steadily. Now worth about $40 - $45, and that's in near mint condition.

Soul Calibur for Dreamcast used to be worth $10 - $12. Now worth about $7 - $9, depending on condition.

Virtual On: Oratorio Tangram for Dreamcast used to be worth $15 - $18. Now worth $10 - $12, depending on condition.

Rez and Ikaruga have appeared to hold value, but I think that's mainly because they're import games and have much smaller print runs.

Power Stone 1 used to be worth $20 - $25. Now worth $12 - $17, depending on condition.

Power Stone 2 used to be worth $45 - $50. Now worth about $35 - $40, although it looks like in the past few weeks it has seen an increase in price, close to where it was 1 - 2 years ago on eBay. Go figure.

The only situation where a game holds its value is when it is actually rare on the original system or it was never released on that system in that region. Or the DLC is ass broken. Otherwise, the value drops like 1/3. Not worthless, by any means, but significant.

I can't really comment on how much the VC affects prices; I'm talking more remakes w/ added features/HD graphics etc. The emulated, non-upgraded bullshit Nintendo puts on the Virtual Console for $10 doesn't really count, imo. From what I've seen, SNES/N64 game prices have remained relatively steady over the past couple years anyway.

I'm talking BIN only from eBay. Limited sources, too, but perhaps the main one for older games. The other thing I've noticed for Dreamcast games is a tendency for the games -- re-released or not -- to go for .99 cents etc. when the starting bid is set there. Even if the game is generally worth $10 - $12, like Shenmue or Sonic Adventure or something of that ilk. I'm not sure why that is, but I've definitely seen more of it when checking out completed auctions than I have in the past.

[monkeychemist]

I think that we can't just make a direct correlation like this. I mean, people have been able to emulate all those games for years. In addition, you can buy or make controllers to give you an experience as if you were playing the real thing. So have the "official" electronic releases made the prices go lower? I doubt it, it's just another way of playing the same game.

I think the story goes deeper. The big elephant in the room is that the economy is in a full blown crash. Yes, it's cliche, but we just can't ignore the fact that people just don't have the money they used to have. So all these ebay prices gone lower are possibly because people just don't sell as many high-priced titles like they used to. I used to buy a classic rare game here and there before. Now? I just enjoy reading about them on websites. I just can't permit myself to drop cash on something that is, really, optional in life.

There are more reasons as well... Maybe those of us classic gaming folks just have grown up and thus it is no longer the priority in life. A while back I wanted to get the Empire Strikes Back prototype that was floating around. At the time I was talking to my wife about having our first baby. Well, in the end I realized that I may want to put my money to better use than to just have a big trophy. The game would have meant the world to me and what did I do, I insulted to buyer with a desperate ridiculous lowball offer (my apologies to the seller). So in the end, just no longer the priority it used to be.

Another reason is that after the GEN/SNES era games have just become more and more about graphics and so why play an N64 or PS1 game when you can get about the same gameplay but with better graphics on the next-gen system? So when those of us who feel nostalgic about playing the older 2D systems no longer buy games, the next generation does not pick up where we left off...they just go for the better, later thing.

I'm sure there are many many other reasons, those are just observations from myself and my brothers that are 10-12 years younger...but digital releases...please! (insert eye-rolling smiley)

[The 1 2 P]

I don't see FFVII going for that much on eBay anymore. I am sure it has been affected by the PSN Network release.

The price for Final Fantasy VII on ebay has been on a decline long before the PSN download was even mentioned. It's a very common game to find on craigs list and the last few times I've listed them on ebay(late last year and early this year) I had trouble selling them for $50-60. Samething with Castlevania:SOTN and Silent Hill, those games prices have also finally come down during the last year or so.

I do think that digital downloads will affect some titles instantly(like Marvel Vs Capcom 2, which has been slowly lowering in value on ebay since the announcement of it's download form was made) but not all titles will be affected.

[DreamTR]

DLC releases devalue the original game. Whether this is a permanent deflation or one that only lasts for 2- 3 years remains to be seen.

Marvel vs. Capcom 2 on Dreamcast was worth maybe $55 - $60 in April. When the DLC was announced, it began to drop steadily. Now worth about $40 - $45, and that's in near mint condition.

Soul Calibur for Dreamcast used to be worth $10 - $12. Now worth about $7 - $9, depending on condition.

Virtual On: Oratorio Tangram for Dreamcast used to be worth $15 - $18. Now worth $10 - $12, depending on condition.

Rez and Ikaruga have appeared to hold value, but I think that's mainly because they're import games and have much smaller print runs.

Power Stone 1 used to be worth $20 - $25. Now worth $12 - $17, depending on condition.

Power Stone 2 used to be worth $45 - $50. Now worth about $35 - $40, although it looks like in the past few weeks it has seen an increase in price, close to where it was 1 - 2 years ago on eBay. Go figure.

The only situation where a game holds its value is when it is actually rare on the original system or it was never released on that system in that region. Or the DLC is ass broken. Otherwise, the value drops like 1/3. Not worthless, by any means, but significant.

I can't really comment on how much the VC affects prices; I'm talking more remakes w/ added features/HD graphics etc. The emulated, non-upgraded bullshit Nintendo puts on the Virtual Console for $10 doesn't really count, imo. From what I've seen, SNES/N64 game prices have remained relatively steady over the past couple years anyway.

I'm talking BIN only from eBay. Limited sources, too, but perhaps the main one for older games. The other thing I've noticed for Dreamcast games is a tendency for the games -- re-released or not -- to go for .99 cents etc. when the starting bid is set there. Even if the game is generally worth $10 - $12, like Shenmue or Sonic Adventure or something of that ilk. I'm not sure why that is, but I've definitely seen more of it when checking out completed auctions than I have in the past.

I think the economy is more of a factor on these than anything else. MVC2 people slowly are moving away from DC anyway.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

I recall Joe and I having a discussion about the Gamecube Zelda 4-game compilation disc slowly dropping in value and demand ... he was pondering why all of a sudden he was seeing more and more of the previously prized collection being traded in and not moving off the shelf at a rapid turn-around

my thoughts on the matter were "as each Zelda title on that disc is released on the Wii VC, most gamers probably don't feel the necessity to hang on to the collection ... and in a marketplace where very few modern games have genuine trade-in value, it's an easy title to logically part with ... if you can get Zelda, Adv. of Link, Ocarina and Majora's Mask on VC for $30, why hold onto something that you can probably sell for $40 to a collector?"

... I stand behind my observations and I think that there's a very very track-able "arc" in the market value a lot of modern console games that has to do with what avenues the software is available and at what price.

And I think that one of the the best examples to look at is Castlvania SOTN as it's been made commercially available on 3 major platforms (360, PS3 and PSP - both via the legal PS1 emulation built into the system firmware AND as an extra on the Dracula X Chronicles game) and has since seen a healthy decline in value on eBay with black-label non-greatest hits versions averaging around $30 buy it now / ending auction price. A few years ago even complete greatest hits versions could net twice that.

Take a very popular title which is available in limited quantities and release it on multiple platforms at a price which is nearly 1/6th of the current market value and you effectively create the ability to (almost limitlessly) satisfy any demand.

While this will not completely remove the factor of "collectors" who want physical media, it will cause a quantifiable shift in the price.

I mean ... the price on SOTN didn't drop because the game suddenly became less popular. It's a direct correlation to the renewed bargain availability of the product.

[IceDrake]

I wonder how the SNES version of Turtles in Time will be affected by the release of the remake.

[unwinddesign]

I think the economy is more of a factor on these than anything else. MVC2 people slowly are moving away from DC anyway.

It's really not, though. Games that were WORTHLESS 2 - 3 years ago such as Jet Grind Radio, MDK 2, Space Channel 5, Omikron the Nomad Soul, Blue Stinger, etc. are now worth $5 - $10. I couldn't sell shit like Omikron for .50 cents back in the day. Why would someone pay more for a bunch of formerly worthless games in a shit economy? Supply and demand. All the overstock copies of JGR, MDK 2 and SC5 have dried up. Blue Stinger and Omikron are some of the last remaining exclusives on the DC and aren't super abundant either.

Another one is House of the Dead 2 + the light guns for Dreamcast. Used to be worth $60 - $70 as a set of 2 guns and the game, and they would sell fast. Now, put 'em up for $50 and they might not even sell. It's because of the Wii release. If you already have a Wii, you can get HotD2 AND 3 + a Perfect Shot shell for $30 new, then get another shell for $15. Total cost: $45, and playable on an HDTV.

It's all supply and demand. Emulated games have nothing to do with this equation. The XBLA re-releases of Soul Calibur etc. shit on what's available for emulators. That's basically a moot point though, since most people don't know, don't care, or don't have the technical knowledge to run emulators. And there's not achievements, multiplayer, online interactivity, leaderboards etc. like there is for a lot of PSN/XBLA releases.

Most people buying on eBay want to play the game. Why pay $60 for a copy of FFVII when you can pay $10 for a copy on PSN that's guaranteed to work, downloads nearly instantly, and is the same as the original? For most people, it's just not worth the premium, especially when the rarity (supply) makes the game the most common on the PS1.

The other thing is that the downloadable games pretty much take that person out of the buy/sell loop for that title forever. A lot of people re-buy their old games, sell them, buy them etc. If they buy a PSN copy, then they have it forever. No constant buying/selling.

[otaku]

I can understand rare games dropping in price a bit when released as downloads obviously alot of people will just go that route and depending on rarity that can hurt badly especially if its not that rare but just a high demand title. Economy isn't helping either if your selling

[duffmanth]

I know what you're talking about. A game store around the corner from me is selling the greatest hits version for around $60 because he thinks it's "rare", which it isn't. He's also selling the black label version for $100 again because he says it's rare, which is true, but not enough to warrant a $100 price tag.

Ebay is even more ridiculous. It's so hit and miss on there. Sometimes you can find great deals ( I found Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes for $20), and sometimes you get someone trying to sell Suikoden II for over $900!