MMMC - Super Contra

[scooterb23]

Welcome back everybody. Last week, we played a sequel to a truly classic game that didn't quite live up to the original. Thanks to the 16 sided die of doom...we are going to play another sequel to a classic arcade game this week Super Contra. Does this game live up to the heights of the mighty Contra? Or is it another pale imitator?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v643/scooterb23/mameclub.jpg

Club Rules

01. You do not need to sign up for the club. If you want to participate, simply download the game of the week and post about it!

02. At the end of the week, I will randomly select a game from a list of nominations.

03. The current MAME Club Pick of the Week can be found every Monday stickied at the top of the Arcade Alley.


http://www.klov.com/game_detail.php?game_id=9884

http://www.klov.com/images/11/11812421751.png


If you need the ROMs... please search out our sources:

Flack will be hosting at http://www.robohara.com/mameclub/

and 2DSkillz will have the games ROMs at http://www.retrogoggles.com/

Previous MMMC games: Jump Coaster, Rampart, Jungler, Ninja Emaki, Port Man, Psycho Soldier, Metamoqester, Gunbarich, Sengoku (series), Snacks'n Jackson, Metro-Cross, Moon Shuttle, The Real Ghostbusters, Moonwalker, Black Widow, Kid Niki, Joust 2.

[TheDomesticInstitution]

Cool, I'll be loading this one up in the next few days. I wonder how close this is to Super C (other than the graphics)? I know some arcade sequels and console sequels, although they may be titled the same, are different games. Sorta like Double Dragon 2. I wonder if this is a port or a different game? I guess I'll find out and then compare.

[scooterb23]

That's a question I admit, I cannot answer. I've not played Super C in years. And the first time I heard of Super Contra arcade was when it was nominated. I'll be interested in hearing the results.

[Ed Oscuro]

I prefer Super Contra to Super C, but I don't think one supplants the other entirely. Super Contra has some stuff Super C doesn't, is much harder (and configurable), and generally is more of a three-ring circus of destruction (borrowing from Arasoi there) than Super C. Super C's expanded playtime and additional areas over Super Contra is appreciated, however.

The first thing you notice is the vertical screen. Super Contra takes after the arcade Contra, not the NES one. Every weapon can be upgraded (although I don't remember if the laser gets more powerful - at best it probably does double damage but doesn't change appearance), and the rather silly (if unique) "R" powerup is gone entirely (thank goodness). Like the arcade Contra, Super Contra uses a "fake analog" style of control, with the player's aimpoint sweeping between the eight cardinal directions based on where you aimed last. It doesn't help the slow firing power weapons, but it works great with the automatic mini-rocket launcher. I like the feature, personally, and it feels kind of like hosing down the area with a tommygun. Very nice.

Although Super C takes many of its stages from the arcade game, the two titles are almost entirely different. Super C's first stage does have the watchtowers (or pillboxes on stilts) with enemies on the balconies, but that's about the extent of the similarity. Instead of stick grenades thrown over the outside walls, Super Contra has a tank and lots of enemies (it's a bit shorter overall). There's a lot more graphics period (the grenade-tossing Alienized Commando guy's grenade box from Super Contra is missing in Super C, not to mention all the glorious deaths and environmental destruction). The first boss in Super Contra is stripped apart by your bullets; the NES version simplifies things by placing three gun turrets and later a flashing wall seal type thing instead of the power source seen in Super Contra (not accidentally placed about where the engines would be on a real helicopter).

The top-down stages are disappointing even in the arcade version due to the waste of the second button (remember that Konami already had released the arcade version of Jackal). It's not as bad as in Super C, though, because the secondary fire is reserved for a screen-clearing "shell" bomb. You can pick up a few through the stages and knowing when to use them - you don't get points for saving them - can make the difference between losing your last life and reaching the second loop.

Beating the last boss nets you an additional 10 million points, just 'cuz.

The second loop is brutal. Enemy fire pelts your position almost continuously, with longer bursts of fire than before, and you have to be very careful jumping or otherwise revealing yourself to take your own shots. I believe I've managed to clear the first stage on the harder difficulty, but it's even harder if you're starting the game from that difficulty instead of continuing on from the last boss with an upgraded weapon.

I don't know how far I got into the second loop, but here's my MAME highscore from some time ago:

Super Contra (JPN ver., MAME, Normal difficulty) - 10,760,180 and one-lifed (the first loop) Ed Oscuro

[TheDomesticInstitution]

Super Contra (JPN ver., MAME, Normal difficulty) - 10,760,180 and one-lifed (the first loop) Ed Oscuro

Jesus. After checking the dipswitch menu I didn't see any invincibility cheats, so kudos.

I've run out of continues 3 times this morning. And unless I want to see the 3rd stage on, I guess I had better get good at it. I am a little disappointed it just doesn't let you play through the whole thing. Oh well, still a good random pick.

And thanks for the detailed info Mr. Ed.

[Ed Oscuro]

Jesus. After checking the dipswitch menu I didn't see any invincibility cheats, so kudos.
LOL

That was using the default settings of course - and I don't believe there's any difference between the Japanese and US ROMsets aside from the title screen and intro (and, in the real world, the JPN board is MUCH more expensive - upwards of $200 whereas if the US board is 1/4 that price I feel it's expensive). Sort of a vanity thing.

The third boss (in the jungle) is kind of tricky until you realize you gotta jump over what comes in from the sides, maybe go prone over some too. Been a while since I seen 'im but I think it helps to destroy the things on the left and right of the main boss damage point as well.

A note about weapons:

You can fire the first-level rocket machine gun nearly as fast as the upgraded version by mashing the fire button quickly (use two fingers if you can). Some folks tell me the spread is where it's at but I can't get enough shots onscreen for my liking. On the other hand, the automatic rocket machine gun seems not to do enough damage in the fourth level against the tons of running enemies that soak up a few hits each and spawn quickly, so your mileage may vary).

If I can pay for it, I won a chance to get an old Konami laserdisc that includes a superplay of Super Contra. So hopeful I can pull together the cash in time. I need to get the board too.

[TheDomesticInstitution]

If I can pay for it, I won a chance to get an old Konami laserdisc that includes a superplay of Super Contra. So hopeful I can pull together the cash in time. I need to get the board too.


Is it for the Laseractive? I can't find any info about it online (at least "I" can't find any). Also what is a superplay laserdisc? A gameplay video or a version of the game? Sorry to be an information leech- I'd even settle for a proper link.

[Ed Oscuro]

Is it for the Laseractive? I can't find any info about it online (at least "I" can't find any). Also what is a superplay laserdisc? A gameplay video or a version of the game? Sorry to be an information leech- I'd even settle for a proper link.
This here (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200368686689). I'm wishing eBay didn't zap the Bidding History 'cuz I wanted to check if the first winner, an NPB, inflated the price on me. Oh well. :sob:

[TheDomesticInstitution]

This here (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200368686689). I'm wishing eBay didn't zap the Bidding History 'cuz I wanted to check if the first winner, an NPB, inflated the price on me. Oh well. :sob:



Awesome, so it's a rare gameplay video. $250 is a lot of money for a LD though. I guess I didn't realize this stuff was worth so much.

[Ed Oscuro]

Awesome, so it's a rare gameplay video. $250 is a lot of money for a LD though. I guess I didn't realize this stuff was worth so much.
A friend of mine spent $100 on a VHS of the original Gradius, Twinbee, and Contra; I traded an MSX2 for it and digitized the tape with a DAC-200.

Yeah, this stuff gets expensive quick. I don't think I'm going to go get a LD player to rip this disc, but I'll find somebody to do it for me, probably.

[TheDomesticInstitution]

A friend of mine spent $100 on a VHS of the original Gradius, Twinbee, and Contra; I traded an MSX2 for it and digitized the tape with a DAC-200.

Yeah, this stuff gets expensive quick. I don't think I'm going to go get a LD player to rip this disc, but I'll find somebody to do it for me, probably.

It'd be a shame if some LD stuff was lost forever. I don't know how long LDs will last, but they're sorta a fragile format. I regret not ripping my Criterion LD of The Magnificent Ambersons before I sold off all my stuff as it still has yet to come out on DVD. Of course, I don't think I had the proper tools to rip LDs then like I do now (minus the LD player).

You don't need much to rip LDs, just a mini DV based camcorder and some basic DV editing software. A lot of mini DV camcorders have Digital to Analog converters, and an AV jack that adds an in and an out. LD player to camcorder to PC.

Anyway I don't mean to hijack the MAME club, just offering some tech advice in case you didn't know.

[Ed Oscuro]

I actually don't need to do that because, as I said, I have one of these thingies (http://www.synchrotech.com/product-1394/analog-dv-converter_01-dac-200-firewire.html), and I can insist on S-Video at the least (I'd insist on S-video at the least even on VHS). What I'd really like to do is get RGB or VGA output and capture that way (I sure wish I had the equipment to do that - at least I know what I need but it's expensive) - but then I'd have to sync the audio, blegh. The audio on LDs is digital, though, which helps quite a bit (also would allow it to sound better than the S-Video process is likely to be).

[TheDomesticInstitution]

I actually don't need to do that because, as I said, I have one of these thingies (http://www.synchrotech.com/product-1394/analog-dv-converter_01-dac-200-firewire.html), and I can insist on S-Video at the least (I'd insist on S-video at the least even on VHS). What I'd really like to do is get RGB or VGA output and capture that way (I sure wish I had the equipment to do that - at least I know what I need but it's expensive) - but then I'd have to sync the audio, blegh. The audio on LDs is digital, though, which helps quite a bit (also would allow it to sound better than the S-Video process is likely to be).

Dac-200 went right over my head, as I'm unfamiliar with the product- sorry. But yeah if you want RGB from and LD you'll need some expensive equipment. I think Pioneer made a few consumer grade LD players that output component video, but I can't be sure. Though I do know that component video isn't quite the quality of RGB. I also remember reading in a few places that a lot of LD players looked better in composite than S-Video, which seems strange.

[Ed Oscuro]

I also remember reading in a few places that a lot of LD players looked better in composite than S-Video, which seems strange.
Some posts in here (http://www.videohelp.com/forum/archive/vhs-capture-s-video-or-composite-t366088.html) agree with this, and one guy even gives a technical-sounding reason (which agrees with what I've heard earlier about laserdiscs being analog). Looks like I need to re-rip that VHS sometime to see what's going on!

And I can scratch one reason for getting an expensive VGA frame grabber off the list...:D

Thank you, that's extremely helpful.

Edit: I just noticed that you've been saying "component" when you probably should be writing "composite." Big difference. I got the info I needed regardless though.

[Arasoi]

Ed, I used to own that LD complete with obi. You can get it for far less on YJ!

Anyway, great game fo the week. There was a full original Super Contra cabinet with all the sideart panels etc for sale at CAX for $250, I damn near bought it. Great game, it has more personality than the NES port IMO.

[cr0n0]

Great pick of the week. I have yet to beat this game. It gets insanely difficult towards the end. These arcades were made to suck in quarters. But even with MAME, there are only so many chances you are given before no more continues are allowed. That pissed me of the first time I played it. I also thought the levels could have been designed better. I liked the first Contra levels better than Super Contra. But that's me.

[Cryomancer]

Finally got my setup going again, sorry for my absence. I played a couple levels and forgot to put in enough quarters so I got a game over of course. At that point I decided to fire up the cheats. Suddenly, the game became very short, heh.

I like how obvious the aliens are. Give them bat wings, totally legally destinct! Also, I liked the laser weapon the best I think.

[TheDomesticInstitution]

Just checking in to say that this games a bitch. I've finally gotten to the stage where all the aliens are running around. A big problem with me are the controls. I played Super C and Contra the other day and the controls on the NES were very responsive comparatively. I don't know if it's my controller, the games aiming system, or my setup. I wish I had the luxury of playing this one on an arcade.

One small thing I've noticed, besides the obvious changes in level designs- are the backgrounds. I know that they are more detailed in the arcade, but it seems they are very a neutral color with not a lot of contrast.

[jb143]

OK, I've never been too good at Contra games and this one is no different. Every time I've played I've barely managed to get past the helicopter before I get game over. It seem like it's more about dodging the enemies gunfire than anything else. Still, I don't hate Contra games. It actually takes me back quite a bit since that was one of the first NES games I've played...but it's still quite tough.

[scooterb23]

OK, I am awful at Contra games, and this one just takes that fact, and shoves it in my face. Is it just me, or do the graphics kind of seem odd, with a lot of greys and such? It looks a little weird, in my opinion. I'll have to work on this one again at a later point.

I still have a solid list of games to choose from, but does anyone want to add more nominations to the list to choose from?

[TheDomesticInstitution]

Is it just me, or do the graphics kind of seem odd, with a lot of greys and such? It looks a little weird, in my opinion.


I prefer the NES's lower-res backgrounds, because they "pop" a bit more. It almost looks like there are a few colors missing.

[Ed Oscuro]

Is it just me, or do the graphics kind of seem odd, with a lot of greys and such?
It's not just you. The graphics are meant to be rather depressing, sort of a futuristic horror look like Aliens (the sharp character graphics designs make it feel a little more so that way than Konami's own otherwise-similar Aliens arcade game). Even the jungle is kind of drab.

Personally I think it's very stylish and love it, but it's not for everybody.

Super C's first stage sunset backdrop is pretty awesome though. Definitely miles beyond Contra NES visually.