When is sony going to drop the towel?

[mr obscure]

When is sony going to drop the towel? Or is the referee going to stop this console fight?

The wii won this console war with there wii remote.
Microsoft got the hardcore gamer because of there cheaper price and better online play.

So sony is stuck in the middle.
There ps3 and psp sell like shit and i have a feeling they have no idea what to do now.

A price drop will come but that will be to late and have no effect because of the financiel crisis and gamers will already have another console.
The top games that come will save them! Oh yeah?!
But even that doesn't seem help sony.

With all the loss sony makes not only on psp and ps3 but also on there tv, dvd ,cd products.
The real question is : sit this console generation out and make more money loss or drop the towel and make games for other consoles or get out of the home console war completly.

[Ro-J]

The real question is : sit this console generation out and make more money loss or drop the towel and make games for other consoles or get out of the home console war completly.

This sounds like the same argument people were making about Nintendo after the N64 AND after the Gamecube. Nintendo ignored the critics and concentrated on what they're good at (innovation and marketing), came up with the Wii and DS, and now are making boat loads of money.

Sony will do the same.

[megasdkirby]

So sony is stuck in the middle.
There ps3 and psp sell like shit and i have a feeling they have no idea what to do now.

IMO, I see the PSP selling quite well, considering Nintendo's dominance. It has beaten (I think?) every other handheld console for second place, and that in itself is quite an achievement.

And besides, if it's still in the market, that must mean they are making money of it in one way or another.


A price drop will come but that will be to late and have no effect because of the financiel crisis and gamers will already have another console.
The top games that come will save them! Oh yeah?!
But even that doesn't seem help sony.

Well, you might be right about a price drop. The damage might be done and a price cut won't put Sony on top (at least for this generation). But it would still mean more user bases, which could mean more games. And I think that's a good thing.


With all the loss sony makes not only on psp and ps3 but also on there tv, dvd ,cd products.
The real question is : sit this console generation out and make more money loss or drop the towel and make games for other consoles or get out of the home console war completly.

I don't think Sony is loosing money on their consoles. Otherwise they would have cancelled them by now. I do think that they are not making the money they hoped for. Perhaps they thought it would sell because of the "Playstation" brand name. But that doesn't seem to have happened.


This sounds like the same argument people were making about Nintendo after the N64 AND after the Gamecube. Nintendo ignored the critics and concentrated on what they're good at (innovation and marketing), came up with the Wii and DS, and now are making boat loads of money.

Sony will do the same.

This is why I say that the PS3 is following the same rout the N64 did...or a very similar one.

[theoakwoody]

I disagree with you in that the PSP and PS3 have not sold like shit. The PSP has sold almost 50 million worldwide and the PS3 23 million.

The problem with the PSP is that the attach rate is horrible. What do they expect when there games are $ 40 a piece when DS games are about $5 to $ 10 cheaper. What they need to do is take a hit on their royalty fee so that developers can still make money charging less. This way they'll get more developers for next generation. Personally, I use my PSP for watching movies on the plane and have only bought the Rondo of Blood remake for Symphony of the Night on the go.

The PS3 will be fine once the price of BluRay discs start to fall. The PS2 was lucky that it came out a couple of years after DVDs had been around so people could actually afford them and play them on their new PS2s. Remember how in Japan most people bought a PS2 just to play the Matrix? I don't own a PS3 yet but from what I've heard they are great BluRay players and with rumors of a price drop I see a surge in sales the next couple of years. The biggest problem with the PS3 is that Sony's first party titles have not really blown people away. Where the hell is Gran Turismo 5 non-Prologue and God of War II should have been a launch title for PS3 not for the ancient PS2 where it only sold 2.5 million copies.

By the way, I can't believe how successful the Xbox has been despite all the hardware failures. Mine finally took a shit last week after 2 years and the guy at the UPS store said he had shipped over 600 back. Microsoft has somehow managed to minimize their negative publicity and push out awesome features such as streaming netflix etc. They also have inferior hardware that doesn't have wireless LAN, you have to pay for Xbox Live, and their lame attempt at HD-DVD was a huge failure. Somehow they seem to be doing just fine.

[crom]

everybody is entitled to have one bad console...

nintendo did it... hell, even the first xbox didnt sell that great...

now your asking if the company behind the all time selling console should toss in the towel?

cmon...

[TheDomesticInstitution]

I don't understand why this thread was created when we have:

Price of the PS3 bundle drops. (http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=134679)

Sony's Big announcement (http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=134710)

Sonys current sales (http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1597421)

PS3 slim coming out this year (http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1596242)

PS3 slim on Amazon (http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=134543)

PS3 price cuts on the horizon (http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=134519)

While I know the threads have started out slightly different, they all end up with the same players saying the same shit. Really, aren't there enough PS3 sales/pricedrop/marketing problem threads? What is this thread trying to accomplish that a dozen other threads springing up every month don't.

I don't know, maybe I'm wrong.

[djbeatmongrel]

Well the question i want to ask is when Sony is going to drop the soap.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Changing position in this console race is a near impossibility for Sony and I'm sure they know that, but ... "throwing in the towel"? Come on.

What they are likely focusing on right now is getting the manufacturing process/production cost of the PS3 to a place where it's A.) not bleeding money B.) making a profit per unit sold.

All recent press "leaks" appear to confirm that they have achieved this goal and moving forward that they will be able to profit per unit sold.

A large price drop in and of itself will cause units to move, that's almost always the case at retail, especially when a key gripe from consumers has been a "restrictive" price previous to the drop.

There are also factors of Sony/PS3 "profitability" going on that a lot of gaming press/pundits are completely ignoring.

Like - Home.

Yes, Home. You all hate it, you all think it's a waste of virtual space, but there are thousands and thousands of users globally who populate it 24/7.

Between selling massive amounts of "virtual ad-space" (billboards, streaming videos, streaming music, etc.) to companies (music/movie studios, etc.) and selling virtual "items" - clothes, apartments, furniture, etc., to Home users Sony is easily on track to pad their bottom line with hundreds of thousands of dollars (if not millions) from the global use of the free service.

Selling ad space is one of the most effective methods to subsidize ANY business, and it can literally completely sustain many operations for years.

Web based "social media" companies like MySpace and Facebook make millions on free services that are lined/laced with 100% ad-based revenue. That's the ultimate model for Home, and its weekly/rapid growth can only be reflective of some modicum of success as an operation.

The PSP shouldn't be considered a "failure" on any level. It's managed to subsist in the market with the typically portable/handheld hardware market monopolizing Nintendo. In Japan it easily outsells home consoles on a regular basis, and Sony seems deeply committed to the brand and platform.

To make a claim that Sony should "throw in the towel" is just ridiculous.

Yes, they're trailing in the "console warz". Yes, they came out of the gate with overpriced hardware and exceptionally weak marketing, but it's obvious that they've stopped and looked at the market multiple times since the launch of both the PSP and PS3 and made changes based on public opinion as fast as they are able to. They've even re-structured their Playstation department on an executive level which appears to now be more conducive to making changes if/when needed.

I expect this to be the case moving forward ... we probably will see the PS3 price drops and the return of PS2 BC in the very near future, as well as things like 2 analog sticks on the next gen PSP. People just need to get over this "it needs to be the way we want it right now!" attitude. Changing gears in a multi-billion dollar hardware development/production business isn't something that can just "happen", but when it does it's usually the right changes based on the right market research.

[mr obscure]

1 more thing : The blue ray
Sony most thank god that it won the battle with hd dvd's if the hd dvd won from the blue ray sony could have closed there doors for there ps3 factories.

The fact that this console war is going to last longer then the other ones (because of the economic crisis) could mean the end for sony.
Already 3rd party's are playing save and are leave the xbox and ps3 for the wii.

When people say: sony sold the most consoles(ps1) and they will never die.
I say: atari and sega (dreamcast).
You see this every where now companies/brands that are thought too be immortal drop like flies.

The ps3 is compared with the n64 but i think its more like the dreamcast.
Price drop after price drop didn't work.

[scooterb23]

I still wonder why anyone actually cares who "wins" and who "loses" the "console war".

To make a parallel, I'm also a big board game player, and when I see new games come out... I don't see people going "ZOMG RIO GRANDE GAMES ARE AWESOME, Z-MAN GAMES ARE TEH SUXX0RZ!!!!1111" There is competition between the companies, but they also play each other's games and an innovation in one game is seen as a boost to the hobby as a whole, especially anything that brings new people into the hobby.

A prime example is Magic: The Gathering. The entire Collectible Card Game genre was born with this game, and sure... some people didn't like it, but the fact that when board game convention attendances went from 3000 to 12000, that it was good for the hobby as a whole.

The only winners and losers in the console "war" should be us, the gamers. We win when games innovate, and excite. We lose when games become predictable, and stale.

[izarate]

This sounds like the same argument people were making about Nintendo after the N64 AND after the Gamecube. Nintendo ignored the critics and concentrated on what they're good at (innovation and marketing), came up with the Wii and DS, and now are making boat loads of money.

Sony will do the same.

With the difference that Nintendo didn't lose money in the N64 and GCN era. In fact there were some quarters in which Nintendo made more money than Sony and Microsoft game divisions combined.

Anyway I don't think that Sony is going to quit soon. Maybe after PS5 if things stay the current way (doubtful). Sega stood two and a half generations in the red so I think that Sony would at least last as much.

[Richter Belmount]

I still wonder why anyone actually cares who "wins" and who "loses" the "console war".

To make a parallel, I'm also a big board game player, and when I see new games come out... I don't see people going "ZOMG RIO GRANDE GAMES ARE AWESOME, Z-MAN GAMES ARE TEH SUXX0RZ!!!!1111" There is competition between the companies, but they also play each other's games and an innovation in one game is seen as a boost to the hobby as a whole, especially anything that brings new people into the hobby.


The board gaming companies will die , long live Lcd tiger handheld electronic games! Board games are a inferior medium compared to my Lion King Lcd game.

[TheDomesticInstitution]

Well the question i want to ask is when Sony is going to drop the soap.

Ahh... the prison sex metaphor would be a new angle.

I'd get behind that...

[BetaWolf47]

So sony is stuck in the middle.
There ps3 and psp sell like shit

ITT tens of millions is a low number.

[j_factor]

I really don't think Sony's doing that bad. We're at the point where we can have three healthy consoles.


I still wonder why anyone actually cares who "wins" and who "loses" the "console war".

Have you ever invested in a current console, only to have them stop making games for it mid-generation? It can be really frustrating.

[Kid Ice]

Well the question i want to ask is when Sony is going to drop the soap.

The question I want to ask is when Sony is going to drop Gran Turismo 5.

[kupomogli]

[QUOTE=TheDomesticInstitution;1597443]Really, aren't there enough PS3 sales/pricedrop/marketing problem threads? What is this thread trying to accomplish that a dozen other threads springing up every month don't./QUOTE]

I don't really think the thread was anything but to just bash Sony, considering the thread topic and what was said.

--

Seeing how the PS3 came out a year after the 360 and only being six million behind, it really doesn't say it's losing too much. Due to getting many console exclusives recently as well as alot of 360 titles being ported over, the system also has just as many good games. Regardless if you're going to use anything else on the system, the majority of gamers will use the online gaming, which the PS3 has for free and is a great service(XBL isn't better on any of the multiconsole games I've played and if it is, it's not noticeable enough for a premium to be paid.)

As for the Wii? It may have sold he most, but the system is a piece of shit and if anything, mr obscure should have throw that in there for some good measure.

Now for the PSP. I love my DS, but the PSP is the superior system when it comes to games. For DS first party games, there are hardly any that are worth buying, where the first party Sony titles are must haves in any collection. People may talk about how the PSP was nothing but ports when it first came out, but why not blame that on the developers rather than Sony? Regardless of that fact, we received quite a few great ports and remakes from the beginning of the consoles life to what it is as of current(Power Stone, Mega Man X, Powered Up, Dracula X Chronicles, Street Fighter Alpha 3, Star Ocean, Gurumin, among others.)

Aside from the ports and first party games, the system hasn't ever had as much third party support as the DS, but the good thing about that is less shovelwar and more quality games. Lately the PSP has been mopping the floor with the DS though. Late 2008 and so far in 2009 we've seen a ton of great releases, and there are also a lot of good looking releases in the following months. Don't get me wrong though, the DS has had some good titles in 2009 as well and a few that are being released this year do look good, just not as good as alot of these being released for the PSP.

I also always say this in every thread regarding the PSP and PS3, but I'd like to once more mention ad-hoc party. The ability to play any PSP game with anyone that has a PSP, PS3, and the specific game(unless you own a 20GB PS3 in which case you don't have wireless and you need to run wired for the PS3 and wirelss for your PSP to connect.) For me it's great because I live about 30 minutes from my best friend and we can play games like Dissida against each other even when the game doesn't have infrastructure. If I happen to want to play any other time, most of the time you'll find people in the US that are on there playing. Once Sony officially releases the US version of ad-hoc party there will end up being more on there. With other friends of mine who don't own a PS3 but own a PSP, the only way I can play with or against them is to either drive there or them drive where I'm at(or if we both happen to have our systems on us.)

Frankie already mentioned Home(which I don't get why people sit on there all day,) so I'm just mentioning my favorite reason for owning a PS3 over a 360, which is the ad-hoc party. When most of the games I want are on both systems, then why not play a system that actually has features I like so I can get more out of your gaming experience.

The systems are definitely far from dying. Sony has many first party exclusives coming this year and next as well as a lot of good third party exclusives for both systems. The Slim PS3 is on it's way and more than likely we'll see that and a price drop in time for the coming holiday seasons. They''ve got Home, the free MMO Free Realms coming to the PS3 sometime later this year, and also the continuous updates to their XMB to add new features which hopefully they'll add a couple I've been waiting to use when playing a game.

[slip81]

I think they'll drop it when they stand up, cause right now sony is naked and using the towel to cover it's lap.

[Richter Belmount]

I think they'll drop it when they stand up, cause right now sony is naked and using the towel to cover it's lap.

Is sony a male or female?

[GarrettCRW]

You know the rule: there are no women on the internet.

[scooterb23]

Have you ever invested in a current console, only to have them stop making games for it mid-generation? It can be really frustrating.

Sure I have, and it might have bummed me for a bit, and then I got over it and collected the great games I missed at dirt cheap prices. Just because the Dreamcast "lost" does not make a bit of difference as to how much I enjoyed the system over the years.

[slip81]

Is sony a male or female?

it's both

[Trebuken]

I believe it was the most recent Game Informer that stated that PS3 production costs have declined by 70%...meaning it's a little over $200 to manufacture a system.

A price drop is coming, but they are timing it. They may wait until exclusives like God of War 3 and Gran Turismo 5 hit (those games could sell systems at full price). They have a plan and we are just waiting for it. The motion control is likely a ways off, but you never know...

This holiday season is going to be big. Sony may have big announcements for the Tokyo Game Show. I don't expect Nintendo is going to have much...

[Icarus Moonsight]

Well the question i want to ask is when Sony is going to drop the soap.

That makes me think of Ving Rhames singing in a NYFD shower... Thanks Adam Sandler and DJBM. :p

I thought it was 'drop trou' and 'throw in the towel'? O_O

[j_factor]

Sure I have, and it might have bummed me for a bit, and then I got over it and collected the great games I missed at dirt cheap prices. Just because the Dreamcast "lost" does not make a bit of difference as to how much I enjoyed the system over the years.

But if it hadn't "lost" it would have a lot more games. And a lot of people only buy one system. Imagine someone buying a Dreamcast in 2000 with the intent of it being their only system for the whole generation. Those people got screwed over.

I was a Saturn owner. I didn't own a Playstation or N64 concurrently. I was basically forced to buy another console mid-generation (or just not buy games). It sucked. I mean, I got a Playstation and enjoyed the hell out of it, so it wasn't a complete loss, but having to do that really sucked.

[Oobgarm]

I think they'll drop it when they stand up, cause right now sony is naked and using the towel to cover it's lap.

I would like to publicly damn you for saying EXACTLY WHAT I WANTED TO SAY.

[Icarus Moonsight]

I was a Saturn owner. I didn't own a Playstation or N64 concurrently. I was basically forced to buy another console mid-generation (or just not buy games). It sucked. I mean, I got a Playstation and enjoyed the hell out of it, so it wasn't a complete loss, but having to do that really sucked.

Same situation here pretty much. I went PC/Blizzard/FPS/LAN Party route though.

[swlovinist]

I think the PS3 comparasion to the N64 is a decent one. Sony should not throw in the towel. Stopping midstream with their console would just piss everyone off, and they seem to be gaining momentum(a little bit). As I have said in another post, Sony has the most to gain from announcing price drop and system redesign.

[Enigmus]

The question I want to ask is when Sony is going to drop Gran Turismo 5.

Yeah, that's a disaster waiting to happen. Oh yeah, the cars' polygons from the 4th one can always be the amount in the headlights. That will only happen on the PS5.

[BetaWolf47]

Sony shouldn't even be worried. People nowadays act like 25 million amount of a product sold is failure. Any entrepreneur in the gaming industry would be envious of that amount.

[Dr. Dib]

When people say: sony sold the most consoles(ps1) and they will never die.
I say: atari and sega (dreamcast).
You see this every where now companies/brands that are thought too be immortal drop like flies.

The ps3 is compared with the n64 but i think its more like the dreamcast.
Price drop after price drop didn't work.

I got to say both of those are pretty unfair comparisons that only make sense when you look at the console and sales only.

Atari had financial problems due to bad business practices. They had no control over the tons of poor games coming out and did things such as making more copies of Pac-man than they had Atari 2600s. Plus they had the failure known as the Atari 5200 and they held back the Atari 7800 until after Nintendo captured the video game market.

SEGA had failure after failure that caused them to leave the console market. It all started with the SEGA 32x not being necessary. Then they left the 16-bit generation to focus on their Saturn which was already dying when it came out. The Dreamcast looked like a turnaround, but they had trouble with piracy. Plus the PS2 really took away all of its momentum.

Sony really hasn't had either of those problems. They've only had problems with not selling a lot of games and consoles, sort of like Nintendo had with the N64 and GCN. They've also had the problem where they lost money on each console sold, but that still isn't enough to throw in the towel.

I doubt they are going to give up after only three years of production when they haven't had too much financial trouble. Plus the fact people are wanting price drops seems to show the console does have people interested in it. Unless of course the media is blowing it out of proportion...

[tom]

Sony is not worried with TWO (that is: 2) worlds best selling consoles under their belt: PS1 and PS2.
And PS2 continues selling very well in Europe, actually PS2 had the most selling software sales in Germany last Christmas (source: PC Welt)


Anyway, Mr Obscure, did you ask the question when Game Cube (in your terms) failed, selling only 20 million ww? Should have Nintendo thrown in the towel?

[Icarus Moonsight]

Well, there were enough threads that were prophesying that Nintendo would be software only after the GC circulating here a few years ago... I saw this as a joke thread in a similar fashion. Also complimenting the mess going on in that other recent Sony thread. What is striking is Sony gets talked about more in defense of a negative (this thread) while they can't gain purchase in it's sales numbers thread, in which the intent was to boost. Take that as you will. I find it revealing.

[CelticJobber]

Gotta love fanboys (or not). It's ridiculous to claim Sony should throw in the title. To compare them to Sega is ludicrous. By the time Sega went software-only, they had several "failed" systemes under their belt (Sega CD, 32X, Saturn, and Dreamcast). Sony hasn't had anywhere near that kind of trouble, and PS3 is selling really well considering its price.

[Red Earth]

i'm one of those people waiting for a PS3 price drop and system redesign. then i will consider buying one. right now it's too big and expensive.

[The 1 2 P]

Well the question i want to ask is when Sony is going to drop the soap.

ROFL. I think they already did that at the end of 2008("the year of the PS3") when they realized they were still in last place despite people getting second jobs(to afford a PS3) and supporting the Sony brand loyalty by purchasing more copies of Xbox 360 versions of games that PS3 versions.


That makes me think of Ving Rhames singing in a NYFD shower... Thanks Adam Sandler and DJBM. :p

"I'm every woman, it's all in meeeeeeee". See what you made me doLOL

Despite Sony's many miss steps this gen, they will be ok. They definitely aren't making any miracle comeback to first place and they won't even get second place in North America or Europe. But they are a big electronics giant that has enough cash in the bank to ride the rest of this gen out and hopefully come up with something alittle more creative next gen.

While I'm sure Sony's investors are still pissed about the PS3, they need to realize that you can't always hit a home run everytime you step up to bat. Sometimes you hit foul balls and other times you just strike out. Sony will take the lessons they learned from this gen and will come back stronger next gen. While we can all speculate what they will and won't do next gen, I can guarantee you that there will be no more $599 consoles.