Fifteen Classic Game Console Design Mistakes [Archive] - Page 2

Akito01

10-29-2009, 11:18 AM

I loved the cartidge format and hated to see it go after the N64 era.

Don't count it dead just yet (although it may depend on your definition of a 'cartridge').

I think it is interesting that the upcoming DS game Ninokuni (Another World) is going to be on a 4 GB DS card -that is much larger than the 1.8 GB that a PSP UMD disc can hold. Consider what a change that is from when the DS was first rolled out. What does this mean on the console side? Well, if either Nintendo or Microsoft want to skip giving support to BluRay for their next console generation, it might be worthwhile to use some kind of flash memory based cartridge. By the times these machines roll out, the costs and capacities of this kind of memory storage could certainly rival that of BD.

MASTERWEEDO

10-29-2009, 11:41 AM

I'm hoping this trend with discs ends soon, too many games get destroyed by rough handling(sometimes by the console or case it came in), i can still lay many nes that i've dropped, hell i flipped my explorer doing 70mph with a bunch of nes games in it, they all still worked when i picked up off the road.

A Black Falcon

10-29-2009, 09:51 PM

Don't count it dead just yet (although it may depend on your definition of a 'cartridge').

I think it is interesting that the upcoming DS game Ninokuni (Another World) is going to be on a 4 GB DS card -that is much larger than the 1.8 GB that a PSP UMD disc can hold. Consider what a change that is from when the DS was first rolled out. What does this mean on the console side? Well, if either Nintendo or Microsoft want to skip giving support to BluRay for their next console generation, it might be worthwhile to use some kind of flash memory based cartridge. By the times these machines roll out, the costs and capacities of this kind of memory storage could certainly rival that of BD.

4Gb, that is Gigabit, not Gigabyte like Sony. That's ~512MB. (8 bits to the byte) Nintendo's still counting all of its cart/card-based games in bits, not bytes, as was done with most all cartridge-based systems in the past. CD systems generally use bytes. It makes the cart-based game sound bigger than they are... :)

But anyway, yes, direct download games and card-based games on DS definitely are nice to see, I think discs are okay but I really do like the better reliability and durability and load times of carts. Hard drives aren't as fast as carts, for sure, and not as reliable either (not even close), but at least they're faster than CDs, and probably more reliable than them if just because it's harder to damage them by accident. :)

GarrettCRW

10-30-2009, 01:57 AM

That's still close to the amount of memory in a CD. It's thoroughly possible that games could push the Gig barrier by the end of the DS/DSi life cycle.

Ze_ro

10-30-2009, 02:55 AM

N64 being cart based resulted in games we couldn't have had otherwise, like Perfect Dark.
I'm sorry... what? Aside from some added load times, I see nothing about Perfect Dark that could not have been done on a CD.

That being said, using cartridges has other advantages... like being able to jam extra hardware into there. Memory packs should never have been necessary, as games that were done properly simply had SRAM on the cartridge. And although the N64 didn't survive long enough to see such expansions, consider that the SNES would have never gotten any SuperFX games if it had been disc based (barring some SNES 32X type add-on).

Also, the fact that Nintendo designed the machine with kids in mind obviously had some impact on the choice of media. Kids would have a much harder time destroying a cartridge.

Lastly, I love the Jaguar controller, and I like the Xbox Duke controller... and I still don't understand the hate towards either of them. Were there actually people who refused to buy an Xbox based solely on the controllers being somewhat large? Plus, Microsoft dumped the Duke and switched the Controller S pretty quickly anyways.

--Zero

Archangel

10-30-2009, 06:27 AM

It was a good read. A little much on the N64 cart thing which I really never thought was too much of a problem it was just their thing.

Also I have an original Xbox with the "Duke" controller and I highly prefered it more than the Type S when it came out.

Then again, I have big hands...

j_factor

10-30-2009, 09:24 PM

That's still close to the amount of memory in a CD. It's thoroughly possible that games could push the Gig barrier by the end of the DS/DSi life cycle.

Yeah, but how old are CD's? And they're just now getting close?

NeoTechni

11-05-2009, 06:09 AM

I think it is interesting that the upcoming DS game Ninokuni (Another World) is going to be on a 4 GB DS card -that is much larger than the 1.8 GB that a PSP UMD disc can hold

No, that DS card is 4 Gb, meaning 512 MB. That's 1/4 the size of a UMD. And there are a couple multi-UMD games. I know someone's said it before, but I don't want people falling for Nintendo's unit-trick.

DS will never catch up to PSP capacity wise, it will be dead before it gets the chance and devs won't use a PSP-sized budget on a DS game.
No DS game could ever need that space anyway considering how much worse the graphics/sound quality is, and that's what takes up the most space.

I'm hoping this trend with discs ends soon

If you know a better way to distribute 50 GB, I'm sure Sony/ISPs would love to hear it. The size of games is growing faster than what's convenient to download.

I'm sorry... what? Aside from some added load times, I see nothing about Perfect Dark that could not have been done on a CD.

It's more about the load times. It streamed data faster than what PS1 could handle. You got fully voiced enemies via MP3, large levels, high res textures.

Give credit where it's due. That game was a masterpiece. Then there was OOT.

I like the Xbox Duke controller

I had 3 of them. The people I played with wouldn't touch those S ones.
MS was stupid not to let you use XBOX controllers on 360. They were both USB for crying out loud.
They went out of their way NOT to let you use them. 360 still used breakaway cables for controllers, had they kept the same shape they would've been cheap adapters. But noooo. Douchebags had to go encrypt the data to prevent unlicensed controllers.

Arkhan

11-05-2009, 11:50 AM

It's more about the load times. It streamed data faster than what PS1 could handle. You got fully voiced enemies via MP3, large levels, high res textures.

Give credit where it's due. That game was a masterpiece. Then there was OOT.

Uh. There was that low budget came on PS1... Broken Helix. It was more impressive than Perfect Dark IMO. Plus Bruce Campell is the main dude, so thats even funner.

and Duke Nukem: Total Meltdown?

both had voices/textures/large levels.......

the difference being, they werent sluggish like Perfect Dark.

Hell, duke nukem even had a JUMP button! WOO.

There were some other good first person games on PS1 that trump Perfect Dark. Jumping Flash 2 comes to mind.

The cartridge for N64 had obvious setbacks you could always see while playing. Turok had a draw distance of like, 3cm.

Kiddo

11-05-2009, 12:25 PM

Uh. There was that low budget came on PS1... Broken Helix. It was more impressive than Perfect Dark IMO. Plus Bruce Campell is the main dude, so thats even funner.

and Duke Nukem: Total Meltdown?

both had voices/textures/large levels.......

the difference being, they werent sluggish like Perfect Dark.

Hell, duke nukem even had a JUMP button! WOO.

There were some other good first person games on PS1 that trump Perfect Dark. Jumping Flash 2 comes to mind.

The cartridge for N64 had obvious setbacks you could always see while playing. Turok had a draw distance of like, 3cm.

Half of this sounds more like complaining about a game you don't like than actually comparing technical merits/flaws. Especially since you're comparing Duke Nukem: Total Meltdown to Perfect Dark rather the more obviously comparable Duke Nukem 64. (And bringing up Jumping Flash 2 is essentially comparing a platformer with FPS elements to an actual FPS, which just drives that point home.)

Also, fog in Turok was used to reduce slowdown and has little to nothing to do with the cartridge format.

TonyTheTiger

11-05-2009, 01:17 PM

Square was like the canary in the coal mine for the N64 - a trendsetter. Once Square made their decision a lot of other people must've felt "well, that settles it." Not just gamers, but executives too.

I think Square was more the messenger than anything else. The trend during the second half of the 90s was for gradually more cinematic experiences. FMV was the premier delivery method. People went crazy for that stuff.

It just so happened that Square, with Final Fantasy VII, delivered just the right thing at just the right time giving people exactly what they were looking for. Sony essentially got lucky. People interpreted FFVII as a sign that Playstation games were more cinematic and, particularly RPGs which were riding FFVII's coattails at the time, became synonymous with quality. And as nice as some N64 games looked, it wasn't FMV, regardless of how cinematic it was. And the Saturn had it's own issues preventing it from competing properly in North America unrelated to the games themselves.

Had Square sent FFVII to the N64 it might have been some other game with huge FMV sequences that did the job for Sony. I'm not sure that Square or FF, by nature of just being Square and FF, really made the difference. It just so happened they're the ones that did the job when it needed to be done.

j_factor

11-05-2009, 02:44 PM

It's more about the load times. It streamed data faster than what PS1 could handle. You got fully voiced enemies via MP3, large levels, high res textures.

It came out in 2000. Even if the aged Playstation couldn't have done it (which is debatable), surely the Dreamcast's optical drive could've handled it, or it could've been done on PC CD-ROM.

vivaeljason

11-05-2009, 05:01 PM

I think Square was more the messenger than anything else. The trend during the second half of the 90s was for gradually more cinematic experiences. FMV was the premier delivery method. People went crazy for that stuff.

It just so happened that Square, with Final Fantasy VII, delivered just the right thing at just the right time giving people exactly what they were looking for. Sony essentially got lucky. People interpreted FFVII as a sign that Playstation games were more cinematic and, particularly RPGs which were riding FFVII's coattails at the time, became synonymous with quality. And as nice as some N64 games looked, it wasn't FMV, regardless of how cinematic it was. And the Saturn had it's own issues preventing it from competing properly in North America unrelated to the games themselves.

Had Square sent FFVII to the N64 it might have been some other game with huge FMV sequences that did the job for Sony. I'm not sure that Square or FF, by nature of just being Square and FF, really made the difference. It just so happened they're the ones that did the job when it needed to be done.

I've been thinking about what would have happened if Final Fantasy VII had been an N64 game recently, and I've got to say that this post did a lot to change my opinion.

I had previously thought that the N64 would have done better with FF7, but I think this post raised a lot of good points. I still do think that Square jumping to the PS1 was a big deal, but yeah -- the PS1 would have still been huge regardless of whether or not the jump happened.

mnbren05

11-06-2009, 06:21 PM

I always loved the duke for the original Xbox I had mine from launch and never saw a problem with it (and my hands are medium sized at best). Other than that I always found N64's controller to be awkward, but I loved the carts (something about the cart will always make it more interesting to own than a disc).

Sonicwolf

11-06-2009, 08:27 PM

Here is my least favorite design mistake: The ZIF push down cartridge slot on the Nintendo Entertainment System has been the bane of my existance for a long time now. I wish they had just used a straight off cartridge slot and slimmed the console a bit in the process. Damn thing is massive compared to the Famicom.

kupomogli

11-06-2009, 09:01 PM

What, because only a delusional N64 fan could possibly dare to say that the PSX didn't have the best gameplay of that generation? Only a hardcore Sony fan and Nintendo hater would say such a ridiculous thing... ;)

I disagree. It wouldn't take a Sony fanboy to see that Nintendo had a smaller amount of actual good games on the N64 compared to the PSX. Just like the Wii in comparison to the PS360.

The N64 did have quite a few good games though but there's no doubt that some of these would have looked better on the PSX(Mischief Makers and Ogre Battle 64 for example.) The 3d prerenderings would have looked much better. They're sort of blurred in both Mischief Makers and Ogre Battle 64.

I'm also curious as to whether the increased size would have any effect of the quality of the music, or was that just how Masaharu Iwata redid the Ogre Battle/Tactics Ogre music regardless of size. Even if it had lower quality I think the soundtrack is overall the best soundtrack on any game other than Tactics Ogre.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOt7BWc4BQs&fmt=18 (N64)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sI7Acv12ssw&fmt=18 (SNES and PSX)

When Tactics Ogre was released to the PSX in the US, the music didn't get any CD quality music such as Ogre Battle Limited Edition did. So that music is the same you'd hear on both the SNES and PSX. Makes me think the music could have sounded much better if Ogre Battle 64 had been released on a CD format. Keep the same style of reworking it, just higher quality sound.

Arkhan

11-06-2009, 09:46 PM

Half of this sounds more like complaining about a game you don't like than actually comparing technical merits/flaws. Especially since you're comparing Duke Nukem: Total Meltdown to Perfect Dark rather the more obviously comparable Duke Nukem 64. (And bringing up Jumping Flash 2 is essentially comparing a platformer with FPS elements to an actual FPS, which just drives that point home.)

Also, fog in Turok was used to reduce slowdown and has little to nothing to do with the cartridge format.

technical merits/flaws?

have you played Broken Helix? It does everything Goldeneye/PD does and it did it a few months earlier. It's much smoother, and has all of the "merits" you said 007 has. The cutscenery is also far superior. I don't think I need to bring up the awesome scene in 007 where he jumps off that dam.

Before that even, was Disruptor. Its way smoother than 007 and PD. The only thing the n64 games have going for it that really trumps the PSX is the multiplayer.

Maybe I could have compared DN: TM to DN:64, but does that really change anything? Perfect Dark isn't some glorious piece of gaming nirvana. I thought it and goldeneye blew when they were new, and still think they blow.

They're both overrated.

All of the shooter games are sluggish, and have muddy textures. They aren't doing anything the PSX didn't do. No credit to give since it isn't due.

as for Turok, the fog has everything to do with the cartridge format, and the console in general.

Thats not to say the PSX wouldn't have the same problem, but there was no turok on PS1 to compare it to.

Kiddo

11-06-2009, 10:38 PM

has all of the "merits" you said 007 has.

I'm not even going to bother reading any more, because you put words in my mouth. I never even mentioned Goldeneye nor stated any actual opinion other than that you're comparing games which are fundamentally different.

Sonicwolf

11-06-2009, 10:48 PM

Perfect Dark isn't some glorious piece of gaming nirvana. I thought it and goldeneye blew when they were new, and still think they blow.

They're both overrated.

All of the shooter games are sluggish, and have muddy textures. They aren't doing anything the PSX didn't do. No credit to give since it isn't due.

So where is the PlayStation's critically acclaimed fps with the for-the-time high res graphics, massive multiplayer and single player modes?

Arkhan

11-06-2009, 10:48 PM

I'm not even going to bother reading any more, because you put words in my mouth. I never even mentioned Goldeneye nor stated any actual opinion other than that you're comparing games which are fundamentally different.

I lump Goldeneye and Perfect Dark together for a few reasons. Other then that I don't think I put any words in your mouth, and still don't see the basis for giving perfect dark credit where credit is due.

What's so fundamentally different about the PS1 games mentioned, and perfect dark/golden eye. The fact that Broken Helix is a 3rd person game barely changes anything when you really sit and compare the two

So where is the PlayStation's critically acclaimed fps with the for-the-time high res graphics, massive multiplayer and single player modes?

Theres a reason I said the only thing PD/007 had going for it was multiplayer. I bet if you took that out the game wouldn't have been half as popular. The only fun I ever had with either game was playing it with 3 other friends on a like 15" TV with all the goony cheat modes like paintball and big head mode.

for the time, I still thought 007/PD were pretty ugly and muddy looking.

comparing "critically acclaimed" n64 vs. PS1 games is a poor idea from either side anyways, because all one has to do is sit back and ask where the good fighting games for N64 are, and what happened to all the RPGs? and then you can ask where all the fun wrestling games were on the PSX, etc. etc.

and then you bring up Resident Evil 2 and laugh at the N64s crummy attempt at that.

RPGs bombed because you can't have cartridge swaps mid game. "Please insert cartridge 2!" would've been funny though.

Sonicwolf

11-06-2009, 10:50 PM

I lump Goldeneye and Perfect Dark together for a few reasons. Other then that I don't think I put any words in your mouth, and still don't see the basis for giving perfect dark credit where credit is due.

What's so fundamentally different about the PS1 games mentioned, and perfect dark/golden eye. The fact that Broken Helix is a 3rd person game barely changes anything when you really sit and compare the two

What does FPS stand for?

FIRST-PERSON SHOOTER.

If Broken Helix was so amazing in comparison to GoldenEye and Perfect Dark, why is a somewhat obscure game with average critic and user reviews on IGN and GameSpot? The two 64 titles are both critically acclaimed and reviewed.

Theres a reason I said the only thing PD/007 had going for it was multiplayer. I bet if you took that out the game wouldn't have been half as popular. The only fun I ever had with either game was playing it with 3 other friends on a like 15" TV with all the goony cheat modes like paintball and big head mode.

for the time, I still thought 007/PD were pretty ugly and muddy looking.

comparing "critically acclaimed" n64 vs. PS1 games is a poor idea from either side anyways, because all one has to do is sit back and ask where the good fighting games for N64 are, and what happened to all the RPGs? and then you can ask where all the fun wrestling games were on the PSX, etc. etc.

and then you bring up Resident Evil 2 and laugh at the N64s crummy attempt at that.

RPGs bombed because you can't have cartridge swaps mid game. "Please insert cartridge 2!" would've been funny though.

So comparing good titles on these two platforms is a poor idea because you are a Sony fanboy and believe in its superiority without reservation?

A lack of good fighting games is the clincher in the argument? Pathetic.

I have one question for you, Do you like the original XBOX or the Gamecube?

Arkhan

11-06-2009, 11:10 PM

easy there gunner. at first we weren't even talking strict first person shooters and were just talking "merits" of Perfect Dark (mp3s, voices, cutscenes), all of which Broken Helix has also. It had nothing to do with what kind of game it was. That snuck in later. Theres a lot of mixed genre-age going on. What it boils down to is the things PD did weren't ground breaking and I didn't understand why PD should be "given credit where credit is due". They were already done. Plus comparing FPS is sketchy in that time frame since you have your Doom-style ones, your 007/PD ones which are like a slight variation to the Doom ones, and then you sneak in your Tom Clancy games.

I think part of the reason 007 and PD were so widely acclaimed is because at the time 007 came out, it was this shining gem in a pile of mediocre titles, AND had multiplayer. The first console multiplayer FPS iirc. Then PD came out and the same sort of thing took place. Though admittedly, the theme/story/stuff of Perfect Dark kicks ass. I just still always thought the two were sluggish, but it might have to do with me being used to Quake and stuff on PC.

as for the fighting game/rpg thing. Its not really pathetic. The point of it is, if you're going to bring up "where is the playstations critically acclaimed multiplayer FPS", the obvious counterpoint is "where is the n64's fighting games or RPGs". Both have an obvious void.

im not a Sony fanboy, I just don't like the N64. I got one and was very disappointed in a lot of the games I got for it, along with other things like the controller itself, the stupid memory expansion unit, and the fact that the only RPGs on it all sucked (except ogrebattle). I still kept the games for it that I enjoyed:

mischief makers
Jet force gemini
all the rare platformers
starfox 64 (even though its too frigging easy)
Pokemon snap < Yeah, I said it.
Ogrebattle

I think they finally got it right when the Gamecube came out. That thing turned out to be what the n64 should have been.

also, I think the original Xbox is a huge piece of crap with a boring game library and the only games I like on it are Steel Battalion, JSR: Future, Panzer Dragoon Orta, and gun valkyrie. Everything else I played felt like a gooned up version of PC games. Advent Rising being the one that really sticks in my head. Maaan was that a giant disaster.

Sonicwolf

11-06-2009, 11:15 PM

The Nintendo 64 did have problems but it still had some gems. That muddy look that those games had was because of Nintendo's stupid idea to put such a limited texture cache inside. Everything looked so blurry. Perfect Dark was one of the few games released near the end that nearly fixed that texture fail. The only problem with Perfect Dark IMO is that it pushed the N64 hardware way too far thus causing lag in many points during single and multiplayer play.

I admit that some games, such as Crash Warped on the PlayStation, have held up better than many 64 games. Even if the N64 had a cd drive. I dont think it would have beaten the PlayStation. That unfortunate head start of 2 years was a bit of a blow.

And I like Pokemon Snap also, its an interesting idea and a bit challenging.

Arkhan

11-06-2009, 11:22 PM

see, that muddy look in all the games was one of the things that really drove me away from enjoying a lot of the games. Goldeneye had that one level where it was like a mine or cave or something, and I just remember playing it and thinking "holy crap, blur much?". I couldn't take it. I preferred shooting people on the PC instead. Quake II on the N64 was something I wish I had never bought.

poor Banjo Kazooie got hosed too. The ground/plantlife looked all goony.

and even ZELDA had the problem. They seemed to do the best job of dealing with it in OOT though.

The platformers on the PSX have held up better IMHO. the Spyro games pummel everything if you ask me.

and then theres Tomba and Klonoa but thats a different story entirely. :o

Enigmus

11-06-2009, 11:32 PM

technical merits/flaws?

have you played Broken Helix? It does everything Goldeneye/PD does and it did it a few months earlier. It's much smoother, and has all of the "merits" you said 007 has. The cutscenery is also far superior. I don't think I need to bring up the awesome scene in 007 where he jumps off that dam.

Before that even, was Disruptor. Its way smoother than 007 and PD. The only thing the n64 games have going for it that really trumps the PSX is the multiplayer.

Maybe I could have compared DN: TM to DN:64, but does that really change anything? Perfect Dark isn't some glorious piece of gaming nirvana. I thought it and goldeneye blew when they were new, and still think they blow.

They're both overrated.

All of the shooter games are sluggish, and have muddy textures. They aren't doing anything the PSX didn't do. No credit to give since it isn't due.

as for Turok, the fog has everything to do with the cartridge format, and the console in general.

Thats not to say the PSX wouldn't have the same problem, but there was no turok on PS1 to compare it to.

RAWR RAWR PSX RAWR RAWR CARTRIDGE LIMITS RAWR.

Try to be more polite. That just sounded like an angrily drunk rant. Besides, who cares when what you're playing is fun to you and your friends? Why do we realky have these debates? It's not the PSX's fault for load times, and it's not Nintendo's fault for underestimating the N64's graphics cache. Let's just be at peace. To my eyes, this is a more sophisticated version of Wii vs. 360.

Still, I think the N64's more reliabe and multiplayer oriented.

Arkhan

11-06-2009, 11:38 PM

I Didnt mean to come off like a prick lol. I guess I forget sometimes that the internet doesnt know I have like 40 systems all hooked up all over the place and complain about all of them half the time, lol.

Wii vs. 360 is funny one.

I wonder if Nintendo knew that the majority of the games for the Wii were going to be dopey gimmicks. I swear I played Carnival games on a flash game website before for free. :frustrated:

and i wonder if M$ knew most of their 360s were going to stop working. They made history!

Sonicwolf

11-06-2009, 11:38 PM

I think we should all agree that both systems have there good and bad points and that we should respect them for entertaining us for so long...

Also this discussion has been going on since the mide nineties. I think its quite past. Sorry If I became defensive and irritated, I thought you were some obsessive Sony fanboy.

and i wonder if M$ knew most of their 360s were going to stop working. They made history!

My 360 has RRoD'd 3 times already and one of my friend has been through 2 360's already. He is defecting to PS3 under a bit of guidance from me.

Rob2600

11-06-2009, 11:50 PM

as for Turok, the fog has everything to do with the cartridge format

Note to self: never take anything Arkhan posts seriously.

Arkhan

11-06-2009, 11:50 PM

nah the only thing I fanboy over as far as that general time area is the Dreamcast! :)

The 360 really pissed me off. PD: Zero was such a cool looking game, and then....my 360 died a week after I got it (launch), and then the new one was dead out of box, and then the 3rd one worked for awhile and died so then i got a new one and sold it for 300$ + a bunch of 2nd Edition D&D books. I haven't replaced it since. Sucks since the games were fun. At least alot of them are either on PS3 also, or PC. I should replace one soon! The supposedly dont break anymore :-D. That is the one time I was glad I got the Gamestop warranty thing for the system. Otherwise Id have been up shit creek.

I grabbed a PS3 used for 200$ the day folklore came out , threw a huge HDD in it and haven't had a single problem. I even left the thing on for a month when I went on vacation (forgot to turn it off!), and it still works great.

Note to self: never take anything Arkhan posts seriously.

Oops. yeah that was retarded on my part. They had to throw the fog in to deal with the fact that the system itself couldn't handle all of the models running at you, plus the far distanced stuff.

Rob2600

11-06-2009, 11:55 PM

(Perfect Dark) That game was a masterpiece.

Perfect Dark was certainly an impressive technical feat and a great game. I think the impressive masterpieces of the N64 were:

Conker's Bad Fur Day
The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time
Perfect Dark
Rayman 2
Star Fox 64
Star Wars: Battle for Naboo
Wave Race 64

Other impressive games included:

1080 Snowboarding
All Star Baseball series
NFL Quarterback Club '99
Wonder Project J2
World Driver Championship

Oops. yeah that was retarded on my part. They had to throw the fog in to deal with the fact that the system itself couldn't handle all of the models running at you, plus the far distanced stuff.

The N64 could handle it, it was Iguana's game engine that stunk at the time. (It was much improved for Turok 3.) Ocarina of Time, Rayman 2, and Conker's Bad Fur Day really show off what the N64 was capable of.

Even Acclaim's Shadow Man on the N64 had a very impressive draw distance. The Turok/Turok 2 engine was way over-hyped. (Again, Turok 3 saw nice improvements.)

Arkhan

11-06-2009, 11:57 PM

Jet Force Gemini! you forgot it.

Sonicwolf

11-06-2009, 11:59 PM

Star Wars: Battle for Naboo

I wish I could find that game, seems to have become a Nintendo 64 rarity.

Arkhan

11-07-2009, 12:02 AM

which one? you linked two of em.

I ask because I always go to the one local shop that sells old stuff, and if they have it i could hook you up. :-D

As long as its <ebay pricing otherwise its not really saving you any trouble. >_<

Sonicwolf

11-07-2009, 12:04 AM

I meant Battle for Naboo. Sorry about that. Fixed.

Rob2600

11-07-2009, 12:04 AM

Jet Force Gemini! you forgot it.

Jet Force Gemini = very good graphics, excellent music, too much back tracking, and annoying controls.

Rare's best technical marvel was Conker's Bad Fur Day. Facial animations, lip synching, real-time lighting and shadows, excellent draw distance, fantastic texturing, motion blur, water ripples, footprints, swaying grass, great music, a stable frame rate, and of course, fun.

By the way, Turok 3 on the N64 featured a much improved graphics engine than Turok or Turok 2. Turok 2 might've had slightly higher resolution textures and a bit more real-time lighting, but Turok 3 had a much better draw distance and frame rate and still looked great. It had better level designs, too.