New(ish) collector needs advice

[Samantha]

I've been dealing with nes collecting for about 6 months. I have a lot of local places that sell used games, and then I branched out into thrift stores and now the internet.

My question is this, how common is it for people to offer you borderline retarded deals? I'm having an issue, people keep trying to highball me when I buy, and lowball me when I sell. Now I know that's common for buying/selling anything. But it seemed when I started there was a lot more of a "community" to online collectors. I figured there'd be things like this, but it's getting borderline insulting. I am trying -so- hard to not play the gender card, but it seems when people realize what sex I am that I must be 2 paces from being retarded. ;_;

Any thoughts or experiences that could help me out?

[gokugohandave]

Just saying that everyone low and highballs to some point, but if it gets too extreme just tell em off I guess. I have no problem deaing with girls and half the time I dont know and find out later or never find out at all. As long as were both happy with a deal then its all good. Heck I know some girls that have bigger and better collections than I do. So just tell em off and dont let it get to ya. My two cents.

[Samantha]

It's just weird because I got ripped off hard recently. Since then I've tried to pay attention to different advice, but everyone has a different viewpoint. I used the price guide on this website and they laughed it off and told me to use theirs, and the prices were so much less. Actually the reason I bought them was because this site had such a great guide.

Upon trying to sell I got lowballed and damn near insulted :sob:

Ah well. Thanks for the reply.

[obesolete]

Don't stress about it too much.
just remember to continuously do your research and keep up with prices.

As a girl collector I can understand the stigma, but don't give in!

[InsaneDavid]

Welcome to the game essentially.

Best advice I can give is when the deals fall apart or someone won't budge, just walk away. Items will come back around and better deals are always on the horizon. There are some incredible values to be found, especially on these boards, you just have to wait for the right moment and strike. Having a maximum price in mind that you won't go over for things you really want to have is important as well.

A good example is a Klax arcade cabinet that I had been after for years. I've owned other cabinets but every time it came around to Klax, some incredible chain of events would prevent me from obtaining any machine I went after. When I returned to San Jose last year after a few years, there was a craigslist posting about a Klax cabaret for something like $600.00+, more than I would pay (bought a Galaxian cocktail instead, for less). $300.00 was the price I had in mind as my maximum for Klax and sure enough the seller would occasionally repost it every couple months. About eight months after he first posted, it came up again, $200.00 / $225.00 delivered. It now stands in my kitchen (http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=128730), and I was able to do a lot more gaming with the $400.00 or so I saved on it, some of which went to buy a Tetris board for the machine as well.

This is all stuff you probably know of course, since there is a lot of common sense involved but you wouldn't believe how many people have no concept of that in this hobby - when you come upon those situations it's time to pull the trigger on the items you want to buy or sell. As for this forum, keep an eye on the Buying & Selling forum, a lot of great things come up for great prices. If you're looking for price advice, just post a thread in "What's It Worth?" and wait a couple days for the replies to balance themselves out.

[Samantha]

Thank you and OMG I checked the link in your sig. Those are so fucking cute! I might have to hire you up to make me some plushies!

[PapaStu]

Its pretty simple honestly. People want teh 2k monies for their stuff and want to pay as little as possible for anything they want/need. Just remember when you're going into a situation, know what you're willing to pay and offer accordingly. Lowballing a seller (who might have a reasonable or slightly high price) just tends to irk them and makes one less willing to make a deal. Some won't come down (when they should) and all that means is that they won't be making any money off you or anyone else.

I've yet to experience a buy/sell forum that doesn't really deviate from that mantra. Of course there are some who do cut better deals and many times they are ones who've been on the forums for long peroids of time (but this is not some kind of exclusive old users give the hookups thing by any means, i've gotten plenty of deals from newer members).

[portnoyd]

Always remember you can always walk away from a deal. Most of the titles you are probably searching for at this point are not rare enough to be once in a blue moon opportunities so if a possible deal falls through, shrug it off and keep looking. If you're getting low/highballed, don't sweat it. Counter offer and if they don't like it, they can suck eggs.

The gender card is tough. While it may make a seller/buyer hold you to a lower regard, weaker individuals will be intimidated and smitten, and give you more than anticipated. I think your pic is more than enough proof of that. My wife, Achika, who I met on these very boards, basically didn't take shit from anyone and was treated on even ground, even being one of the marketplace mods for some time. What I'm trying to say is use it wisely.

[hush]

I have found the same problems since i started to seriously collect games and the only thing i can add is to agree with what others have written dont rush into anything and dont be afraid to walk away
I was doing a deal to get legend of zelda link to the past for my snes some guy was wanting $250 for it and it was missing pieces so i walked about a week later i was at my local pawn shop and they had a copy complete boxed in pretty good condition even had the little secrets book and i only paid $20 so be patient and good things will happen :D

[megasdkirby]

Things happen for a reason.

For example, if someone tries to sell you something extremely high, and you are not confortable with it, just back away. It hurts leaving it behind, I know, but you will come across it eventually, and possibly at a better price!

[Samantha]

yeah, ok. Thanks you so much for all the help everyone! ^_^

[Joe West]

there's a easier way, change your name to <SAM> then they wont try too take advanage of you.......\\^_^/

[Blitzwing256]

I perosnaly stopped trading with people online as I had the same problems, seriosuly when you hear the catch phrase "well i could get X on ebay" or "it only goes for X on ebay" or "i'm giving you a deal here" or "i'll take it off your hands for..." walk away from these people. There are some great people to trade with, but this site and many others have become infested with ebay "flippers" and it can be very hard to find someone who is a genuine collector anymore, and not just someone looking to make a few bucks off your possible lack of knowledge.Hell I remember a well known member of this site tried to tell me that copy of stadium events I picked up for 5$ was only worth 10, and they'd give me 15$ for it!. always do your reasearch (the whats it worth section is your best friend when you're new) and I dread saying it, but ebay does help with finding a relaitve value for stuff if you are unsure.And finally like everyone else said don't be pressured into any deal, no matter what the game you will ALWAYS be able to find it later (like insane david said). but most of all have fun with it, when it turns into a job (read burn in fucking hell ebay flippers!) then its time to walk away :-)

[MachineGex]

My advice is to trade on this site. I have had great luck here on DP. It my take time to get what you want, but check the marketplace section daily.

Also, make sure you know a game's value before you start dealing. Carry a price guide around in your car if you aren't sure of game values.

Like everyone else said, walk away if a deal stinks. Unless you really "have to have it", another game is just around the corner. Be patient.

Always look for new places to buy games in your area. Ask people, check online, ask on Craigslist, stop at thrift shops, flea markets, asks clerks, etc..

Lastly, brick and mortar stores have overhead. They can't give you full value for your game. You are lucky to get half, most places give you less than 25%. This brings you back to trading on DP.

[staxx]

From my experience: In the past few years due to people recognizing a market for retro video games and modern games w/ collectors value more and more flippers and scalpers are buying up these games. They see the demand and use ebay as a price guide. This drives up the prices that people are willing to sell the games to you. The flippers that are only in this for the money and don't care about the game will try and low ball you. Unfortunately, I can see how being a female you get the stigma of ("Oh she doesn't know the true value of these etc"). This might change though as there are more and more female gamers (I still hear the phrase "sigh if only my girlfriend / wife was a video gamer they are rare"). Low balling and crazy mark up can't be avoided when there is a market. I used to buy quite frequently on DP a few years ago, but now I buy much less cause I see a lot more of "I have a mint complete XXXXXX game. TAKING OFFERS." Though you can still find bargains in here. The places I get my games are thrift stores, craigslist, flea markets, and boards like Digital Press's Buying and Selling forum. At flea markets you got to learn how to haggle so that you don't get ripped off and do research as to the value of the game when you buy them. Like what others have said, if you don't like the deal then walk away. You will find the games again. If you are after a game then try posting a wanted post in the buying and selling forum. The community here overall is pretty nice though was much better a few years ago. Another thing if you have paypal and a credit card is to do a global craigslist search and message the person about sending the item and using paypal. I have had success in finding needed items. Drop me a message if you need any more help. Plus welcome to the DP boards.

[Baloo]

Here's the golden rule of buying/selling:

Don't see a price you like, just walk away.

And good to see you made an account, welcome to the boards!

[Jehusephat]

I don't think I've ever completed a successful game purchase over the internet with anyone save for people on ebay, because the second I say I'm a fairly serious collector dollar signs flash in their eyes and the deal suddenly goes from reasonable to outrageous. I think that gender may play a role in a small number of transactions (I'm a guy, so I can't say for certain) but for the most part people just want to get the most for their money, and collectors are the people who tend to pay top dollar. When I used to watch Antiques Roadshow I'd more often than not laugh when something entirely undesirable to me was estimated to be worth thousands of dollars. Many of those things are useless junk to 90% of the population, an investment to be bought and resold to collectors for a profit for another 9%, and something incredibly desirable to maybe 1% (or less, but I'm just making these numbers up anyway). There are usually more people out there who know what they've got and want to profit from it than there are people who just want to own whatever it is that they collect because they love having it.

I recently got in touch with someone about buying a chunk of his NES and SNES collection which consisted mostly of commons and easy to find games that I just wanted to buy all at once instead of search for individually, and it went from "send me a list of the games you'd like to buy and I'll let you know what I'll let them go for" to "these games are quite pricey/valuable/hard to find, and I don't think I can let them go individually or for less than $1,000." I laughed and didn't give him a second thought. The second I said I had a decent collection and was looking to fill in some gaps in my checklist with some of the games he had, he thought "checklist... collection... $$$." I hardly have any money to collect with, and the only reason I even have a collection is because I know not to pay over a certain amount for games I want. I'd hate to spend $70 on a copy of Dragon Warrior 4, only to see one lying in a pawn shop three weeks later for $5. If you wait long enough and go to the right places, you'll eventually find the game you're looking for for a good price and you won't even have to deal with all of the people who will try to rip you off. If you don't ever find a copy of that 1 game you really need, save it for last, and let it be one of the annoying ones you have to get the expensive way. At least then paying $100 for one game will give you some sense of accomplishment, because you'll know that it was one of the very last ones you needed.

I really need to get used to talking about game collecting on a game collecting forum. I'm so used to everyone around me being so completely clueless and disinterested in what I'm talking about that I just end up generalizing everything or feeling like I possess some kind of arcane knowledge that I need to pass on to everyone in order to keep the flame of game collecting alive--like I'm trying to convince everyone around me that "it's really not such a bad hobby if you do it right, and as an added bonus I'll even tell you all of my secrets." The funny thing is that everyone here probably does it better than I do. It's fun to read about all of the different ways people find games, and about all of the different types of games people collect. Pawn shops and thrift stores are probably great for games for more common systems, but it's an entirely different game for people who collect for some of the less popular ones. If you collect Neo-Geo games, where do you look, how much do you pay, and are people more likely to rip you off because of the rarity of the system? That's something I'll never know.

[staxx]

Collecting Neo Geo Games is one tough beast and is very pricey (AES/CD games). Finding AES games in the wild is not easy unless you are in Japan. In all my years of collecting, I only found 1 AES game in the wild KOF 95 I believe in a used music/game store. Ebay stores and contacting the seller outside of ebay are your best bet in collecting Neo Geo AES/CD. For Neo Geo MVS local arcade sellers, ebay and craigslst are the best bet. Plus you can ask on DP's buying and selling.

Plus don't tell people that you are a serious collector. Why bother telling them that and have them jack up the price. I guess when it comes to haggling there is a strategy or skills. That I suppose should be in another post.

[Blur2040]

My best deals come from the highballers/lowballers.

They usually have no clue what things are worth and have no desire to do the research. With a little time and practice, they can easily be manipulated.

[smork]

Collecting Neo Geo Games is one tough beast and is very pricey (AES/CD games). Finding AES games in the wild is not easy unless you are in Japan.

AES is difficult even in Japan, other than the super commons. I think NeoCD is an easy/cheap system to collect for, though...

I've had generally decent experience with deals, but I don't usually deal so much. DP has gotta be the best place to meet up with fellow collectors to trade. Most people's prices in buy & sell are really nice, really fair.

[Flack]

My question is this, how common is it for people to offer you borderline retarded deals? I'm having an issue, people keep trying to highball me when I buy, and lowball me when I sell. Now I know that's common for buying/selling anything. But it seemed when I started there was a lot more of a "community" to online collectors.

Buyers are looking for a good deal and sellers are looking for money. If you were looking for an online hippie commune where people give each other games because it helps their karma, forget it. Read through the "What's it worth?" threads and you'll get a clearer picture of what's going on. The eBay culture ruined it -- people want to sell things for the highest possible price. There are hundreds if not thousands of game collectors who use the Digital Press guide to determine a game's worth, and then spend their days trying to buy games for less than those prices. Sellers here and online in general have the ultimate buying audience. It's not like a garage sale where you might get one or two people who are interested in video games ... Digital Press has thousands of hits a day and eBay has millions so why not ask for the top dollar? Eventually, you'll get it.


I am trying -so- hard to not play the gender card, but it seems when people realize what sex I am that I must be 2 paces from being retarded. ;_;

Between your avatar and your name, you're doing a horrible job of hiding your gender.

[Diatribal Deity]

I've been dealing with nes collecting for about 6 months. I have a lot of local places that sell used games, and then I branched out into thrift stores and now the internet.

My question is this, how common is it for people to offer you borderline retarded deals? I'm having an issue, people keep trying to highball me when I buy, and lowball me when I sell. Now I know that's common for buying/selling anything. But it seemed when I started there was a lot more of a "community" to online collectors. I figured there'd be things like this, but it's getting borderline insulting. I am trying -so- hard to not play the gender card, but it seems when people realize what sex I am that I must be 2 paces from being retarded. ;_;

Any thoughts or experiences that could help me out?

BUYING: I think your best bet at this point is thrift stores, yard sales (that have not adopted the ebay pricing structure) and individuals sellling lots in general. Many here will tell you a cost effective way of collecting (whether on Craigslist, Ebay, etc...) is to look for lots. By looking at completed listings on Ebay combined with using the resources on this site you can quickly get a gauge on what a fair price is for individual titles. Adopt a quick hit list of what you are willing to pay for common titles ($1-$5) versus a maximum of what you'll pay for the pricier ones. Many times lots can be overlooked, as some pricier titles sneak into them and you can get a decent deal. Many including myself I'm sure have bought lots in the past and sold off duplicates or unwanted titles and in the end netted a decent deal.

Others may recommend looking for new listings with cheap BIN's on Ebay or other techniques, but I believe this is much more miss than hit compared to the lot approach.

SELLING: A whole different dynamic. A fair price on an item will get you a relatively quick sale, where a greedier higher price approach will take time. With the resources you have available, whether it be this site or others and educating yourself on values you will quickly turn into a pro. The gender issue I would believe to be minimal when conducting transactions online but in person or over the phone may be a slightly different story. Set some hard rules for yourself with limits and it will be very hard for others to take advantage of you.

Sorry if a repeated anything someone else may have mentioned, but this would be my honest advice.

[Shadow Kisuragi]

Samantha, I can feel your pain there.

There have been many times where my fiancee asks about a game and people treat her like she knows nothing, and she always has to show them up to prove herself. It's ridiculous sometimes, especially in collecting. I've seen someone offer her a game for 3x what I was offered because they thought she didn't know anything about it other than that it was a Mario game.

It has been mentioned multiple times here, but the best way to deal is to set a maximum price in your head. This will prevent you from paying more than you want for something, and it doesn't hurt as much to walk away from a deal if it goes over that amount.

I've been wanting Chrono Trigger for a long time on SNES, but never had the money for a decent copy. I've had one hell of a month, where I've had two family members in the hospital, I was sick for a week and my apartment flooded (and ruined some of my SNES games, including Secret of Mana). I was driving a friend home and stoped by a local Goodwill, since I remembered they had games last time I was there. I ended up picking up Chrono Trigger, 4 other Square SNES RPGs, Mega Man X, Legend of Zelda: LTTP and a couple odd (but rare) games for $2 each. $18 total for $150 worth of games. You don't always have to take an expensive deal for a game, since you will most likely come across it again at a later point.

When dealing in person, it helps if you show that you're knowledgeable about the material. We carry around our Digital Press pricing guide for what we collect, printed out and stored in a binder with our collection highlighted. This helps to prevent highballing, since you can act like you're looking in the guide for the price and adjust down accordingly. Selling wise, you're always going to get lowballers and you have to take it with a grain of salt.

[ZiLL]

It's just weird because I got ripped off hard recently. Since then I've tried to pay attention to different advice, but everyone has a different viewpoint. I used the price guide on this website and they laughed it off and told me to use theirs, and the prices were so much less. Actually the reason I bought them was because this site had such a great guide.

Upon trying to sell I got lowballed and damn near insulted :sob:

Ah well. Thanks for the reply.

Wow...really? I have a feeling you're referring to this FS thread over at NA: http://nintendoage.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=6&threadid=22370. You were asking INSANE prices for things...$30 for a Miracle Piano cart? Come on....

You then say you would trade gold Zelda carts for your things. I offer an original gold Zelda in good shape for one of your miracle piano carts, and you say..."I could get one for $5 off eBay. I'll trade you it for two of them". I respond with completed auctions showing a single Miracle Piano cart selling for $12 shipped, one that didn't even sell for $4 shipped, and a 1/2 dozen Zelda carts that sold for $10-$15 shipped.

Sorry "Samantha", but you're the one that needs to do some homework here. It's obvious you don't know what things are worth, and would rather just go off some out dated guide.

I also find it insulting that you want to play the "woe is me, I'm a girl and people treat me differently" card, when you're sporting a cart inside a thong as your avatar. Can't have it both ways.

[portnoyd]

He's got you there.

[Flack]

In her defense, I had the same problem when I first started posting here. I was like, "why does everybody always treat me like a butthole" and someone finally PM'ed me and was like, "maybe it's because your avatar is of your butthole."

[Samantha]

No, nothing to do with that thread. It was more along the lines of people who were pming me deals that were for lack of a better word, insulting. As for your offer, it wasn't good enough. Sorry. I'm not looking for a battle, but I managed to pick 3 buy it nows off ebay for a fraction of what you offered. It was a bad deal and I wasn't interested. However, yours wasn't the problem. I has someone offered to buy it from me for $3, shipped. I said no, and I have gotten no less then 10 emails about what a greedy whore piece of shit I am.

as for my INSANE prices, those were there for less then 20 minutes and were fixed as soon as I got a new guide. I was going off an old collector list I found while googling.

[Daria]

I've never been jerked around on this site or on Nintendoage for being a girl, so you can put away the gender card already. But then again I don't go around flashing a half-naked cooch as my avatar either.

Treat yourself with some dignity and you'll be treated with respect in return.

I also wanted to say that I've made some good deals on this site in the couple of years I've been a member. But you don't build a collection overnight, Insane David posted some great advice. Set a reasonable budget for your wanted items and have patience. The deals will come eventually.

[Samantha]

I like my avatar. I was having a good time when I made it, and there's nothing wrong with it. As for David's advice, yeah it helped quite a bit. Although I shake my fist in jealousy at his tabletop. I fell in love with a donkey kong one as a kid and tried so hard to get one as an adult. No luck thusfar.

[darkhades]

Any thoughts or experiences that could help me out?


I have some good advice for you. Create an account on NintendoAge. Then post some scantily clad photos of yourself, with cartridges and NES Zappers stuffed up your crotch. Then create a few threads asking people to send you free stuff. Heck, maybe someone will send you a free Power Pak, those things are expensive you know. Wait is that a Power Pak in your avatar? I guess you already tried that. Just how many people sent you free stuff anyways, I'd love to know? Seems like the gender thing is acutally working out pretty good for you.

[Samantha]

I have some good advice for you. Create an account on NintendoAge. Then post some scantily clad photos of yourself, with cartridges and NES Zappers stuffed up your crotch. Then create a few threads asking people to send you free stuff. Heck, maybe someone will send you a free Power Pak, those things are expensive you know. Wait is that a Power Pak in your avatar? I guess you already tried that. Just how many people sent you free stuff anyways, I'd love to know? Seems like the gender thing is acutally working out pretty good for you.
ROFL That made my day

[Eternal Tune]

I've never been jerked around on this site or on Nintendoage for being a girl, so you can put away the gender card already. But then again I don't go around flashing a half-naked cooch as my avatar either.

Treat yourself with some dignity and you'll be treated with respect in return.

I also wanted to say that I've made some good deals on this site in the couple of years I've been a member. But you don't build a collection overnight, Insane David posted some great advice. Set a reasonable budget for your wanted items and have patience. The deals will come eventually.

/me nods in agreement over and over and over...oh and over again.

Daria is right. No matter how much you like that avatar, it screams "I'm a girl who plays games OH MY GOD LOOK AT ME!" Everyone knows girls don't play video games and they don't exist on the internet. Please stop pretending and throwing around the gender card, before we come and revoke it.

[Samantha]

Since you have trouble reading, you might want to check earlier when I said I was avoiding that card. Reading what other people wrote after me and making a reply is silly. And since these's such a fear of female sexuality, I'll transform my avatar again. I'd hate to make people uncomfortable. :rolleyes:

[Bratwurst]

http://home.roadrunner.com/%7Esaucisse/DPcomics/skank.gif

[Samantha]

hahahahahahahahahahahaha holy shit, thank you. Tension breaker.

[TheDomesticInstitution]

I hear the Power Pak stinks.




Before this one is locked... brat you're a fucking genius.

[Eternal Tune]

I'm disappointed no one has posted this yet:

Tits or GTFO

[Daria]

http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/8479/gamesinthong.jpg

There. Now there's games in MY thong. Where's my free shit?

[GarrettCRW]

We don't play the gender card in #vbender.

[GarrettCRW]

http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/8479/gamesinthong.jpg

There. Now there's games in MY thong. Where's my free shit?

You have to be wearing the thong, Daria.

Oh, wait, scratch that. You just need to be in the picture, as scantily clad as possible. ;)

[retrocollectorguy]

Just stick those games up your vag and ill send you any game you want :D

[GarrettCRW]

Just stick those games up your vag and ill send you any game you want :D

VAG does not recommend that one places games in their vag if they desire the maximum value upon resale of their sealed and graded games.

[portnoyd]

This thread just got turned up to FULL EPIC right here.

http://userserve-ak.last.fm/serve/_/31808561/Michael+Jackson+Jackson_popcorn.gif

[punkoffgirl]

http://home.roadrunner.com/%7Esaucisse/DPcomics/skank.gif

Good god, I love you.

[Cobra Commander]

http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/8479/gamesinthong.jpg

There. Now there's games in MY thong. Where's my free shit?
You got DWIV, Duck Tales 2, and Faria right there. Hell, send ME some shit!

[Icarus Moonsight]

There. Now there's games in MY thong. Where's my free shit?

I'll go Full Monty for an AES or Vectrex! I'm not even 100% sure I'm joking... LOL

[smork]

I'll go Full Monty for an AES or Vectrex! I'm not even 100% sure I'm joking... LOL

I hope you're not thinking of shoving AES carts in your jock! Think of the children!

[Sonicwolf]

I hope you're not thinking of shoving AES carts in your jock! Think of the children!

No undergarments would hold an AES cartridge... aside from John Goodmans.

[hush]

Man i gotta say this thread has gone downhill fast but it is definatley putting a smile on my face :D
has antone considerd starting a thread to see who will stick what where for free stuff......just a thought

[Icarus Moonsight]

Man i gotta say this thread has gone downhill fast but it is definatley putting a smile on my face :D
has antone considerd starting a thread to see who will stick what where for free stuff......just a thought

That's all we need, left handed Power Glove fisting for 2k monies...

I would think that Full Monty would imply an Elephant Walk... Well, unless I went full retard and remade the Buffalo Bill scene from Silence of the Lambs with the donated items. Tuck and roll fellas!

[darkslime]

I will admit I lowball / highball constantly, I like getting great deals and making the most money possible off of stuff. Just don't take people's shit, and learn the values of games. Its your own fault you got ripped for not researching game values.

[Samantha]

Thanks to the handful of you who helped out. I'd like to have tis closed now if possible, it has lost it's charm. thanks!

[Icarus Moonsight]

Don't like your future prospects for freebies here now? Damn, I guess we poisoned that well...

I'll admit, we are a very different breed here, but in a good way. You leave the net open, we're gonna shoot at it... fairly hard. Don't take it personally. We all get ribbed once in a while.

[Pezcore343]

What's all this about orifices and free stuff? How can I get in on that?

[smork]

That's all we need, left handed Power Glove fisting for 2k monies...

I would think that Full Monty would imply an Elephant Walk... Well, unless I went full retard and remade the Buffalo Bill scene from Silence of the Lambs with the donated items. Tuck and roll fellas!

You gotta be careful; some might do ANYTHING - literally - for games!

[I Am Error]

I am Error.

[Icarus Moonsight]

Don't worry Smork, my line gets drawn WAY before bestiality. I still have at least a shred of moral decency within me, somewhere.... Uh oh, maybe not! :evil:

http://www.halolz.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/pikachu-vagina.jpg

[PapaStu]

Thanks to the handful of you who helped out. I'd like to have tis closed now if possible, it has lost it's charm. thanks!

More than agreed. We're done here.

**lockerooni**

[darkslime]

its not locked