Sega Saturn Waterworld [Archive] - Retrogaming Roundtable

gameofyou

08-26-2009, 09:39 AM

Ok, after learning Waterworld was completely finished for the Saturn (but unreleased), I contacted one of the Ocean programmers. Here is his response:

"Hi Kent,

It does exist! I really like playing it, but I'm kind of biased towards it :)

I may be wrong about this, but I think the problem will be getting the OK from Universal, or who ever owns the rights to any WaterWorld products.

I would really like to have the game out there and be playable on emulators or what ever. I think people would love the game. I'm just thinking back and there were only three of us working on that game from start to finish.

If you've got any legal ideas on how to make this game available to the masses, I'd love to hear it!

Cheers,
Steve Woita

Senior Game Designer / Producer / Developer
Eat Donuts, play DunkIt 2 at:
http://www.tinygames.com"

If anyone has some helpful ideas about getting this released, please post!!

StoneAgeGamer

08-26-2009, 10:36 AM

Interesting... who owns Ocean's properties now?

Shadow Kisuragi

08-26-2009, 11:12 AM

Infogrames owns Ocean now, according to Wikipedia. Ocean is known as Atari UK now.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean_Software

I'm not quite sure who owns the rights to publish video games based on the Waterworld property.

StoneAgeGamer

08-26-2009, 11:31 AM

Yeah the movie license would probably be a big hurdle if you wanted to go the legal route.

ottojello

08-26-2009, 11:40 AM

Wouldn't you be able to get away with calling it something else? Just get rid of or change the title screen?

StoneAgeGamer

08-26-2009, 12:17 PM

Wouldn't you be able to get away with calling it something else? Just get rid of or change the title screen?

Maybe SwordQuest: WaterWorld 3D? 8-)

Ryaan1234

08-26-2009, 12:37 PM

It does exist! I really like playing it, but I'm kind of biased towards it :)

I don't have much advice, but all I can do is hope that the Saturn version is better than the Virtual Boy version of this game :)

Swamperon

08-26-2009, 02:14 PM

I'd guess legal would be a non-starter as there would be almost zero profit from releasing it.

Try to convince him to dump it on the internet? I doubt anyone is going to really care about it.

motley6

08-26-2009, 06:52 PM

You may convince someone at Universal that by granting the license for a small print run for a dead system, they would be getting free publicity for the DVD special edition release.

Kitsune Sniper

08-26-2009, 06:54 PM

... You mean someone is actually MAKING a special edition DVD? o_O

motley6

08-26-2009, 06:57 PM

They already did.

http://www.amazon.com/Waterworld-2-Disc-Extended-Kevin-Costner/dp/B001F12IZS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1251327341&sr=8-1

JohnnyBlaze

08-27-2009, 06:38 AM

They already did.

http://www.amazon.com/Waterworld-2-Disc-Extended-Kevin-Costner/dp/B001F12IZS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1251327341&sr=8-1

THE APOCALYPSE IS COMING! WE'RE GONNA DIE!

Seriously though, I don't see the big deal. If it was never released and no one is making a profit off of it, why worry about legal trouble?

For example, Suburban Commando came out for the PC, yet the game is freely available on several Abandonware sites. Time Warner never bitched about it. Usually they are among the VERY FIRST to sue.

My point is: If the game was never released and no one is ever going to make a profit, why worry about legal issues?

ANY court can back the programmer up on it. A piracy/infringement case is ONLY tried if the company lost money because of it. Since this was unreleased and distributed free, there's no case.

nhm

08-27-2009, 11:18 AM

That's not really true. It doesn't matter if no money is involved. They could take it to court and get a cease and desist order.

Can you make a million copies of a current game and sell it at zero profit legally? Nope. Same here.

THE APOCALYPSE IS COMING! WE'RE GONNA DIE!

Seriously though, I don't see the big deal. If it was never released and no one is making a profit off of it, why worry about legal trouble?

For example, Suburban Commando came out for the PC, yet the game is freely available on several Abandonware sites. Time Warner never bitched about it. Usually they are among the VERY FIRST to sue.

My point is: If the game was never released and no one is ever going to make a profit, why worry about legal issues?

ANY court can back the programmer up on it. A piracy/infringement case is ONLY tried if the company lost money because of it. Since this was unreleased and distributed free, there's no case.

TheRedEye

08-27-2009, 11:22 AM

I don't have much advice, but all I can do is hope that the Saturn version is better than the Virtual Boy version of this game :)

Pretty sure Steve coded that one too, and it's the same basic idea. I might be wrong though.

JohnnyBlaze

08-27-2009, 12:37 PM

That's not really true. It doesn't matter if no money is involved. They could take it to court and get a cease and desist order.

Can you make a million copies of a current game and sell it at zero profit legally? Nope. Same here.

That's different. That "current" game would've already been sold at stores where companies CAN make a profit. That's piracy. This is an unreleased PROTOTYPE!

Let me give a perfect example since it seems I wasn't clear the FIRST time.

Remember Smoke and Mirrors? That wasn't released, yet anywhere you look on the internet you can find it, along with numerous documents. Did Penn and Teller sue? NO! They ENCOURAGE it! They refer to Desert Bus all the time and tell people interested that it can be found on the internet.

Same would apply in this situation. If a game was never released, there is NO MONEY TO BE MADE! CASE CLOSED!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5QGkOGZubQ

nhm

08-27-2009, 01:36 PM

It has nothing to do with "profit". It has to do with copyright, intellectual property laws, and whether or not an owner wishes to protect that property. All of the examples have been of worthless properties owned by relatively smaller companies. It doesn't matter who owns "Suburbian Commando", it's not worth paying a lawyer to defend the copyright. As for Penn and Teller, it's their CHOICE not to pursue their copyright. Actually, the copyright to that game, and all associated footage was probably owned by Absolute, NOT Penn and Teller.

Just to sum up...the legality has NOTHING, ZERO, NADA, ZILCH to do with "profit."

That's different. That "current" game would've already been sold at stores where companies CAN make a profit. That's piracy. This is an unreleased PROTOTYPE!

Let me give a perfect example since it seems I wasn't clear the FIRST time.

Remember Smoke and Mirrors? That wasn't released, yet anywhere you look on the internet you can find it, along with numerous documents. Did Penn and Teller sue? NO! They ENCOURAGE it! They refer to Desert Bus all the time and tell people interested that it can be found on the internet.

Same would apply in this situation. If a game was never released, there is NO MONEY TO BE MADE! CASE CLOSED!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5QGkOGZubQ

gameofyou

08-27-2009, 02:19 PM

^ I agree. We just need Universal to give their OK, since they hold the rights to the Waterworld property.

nhm

08-27-2009, 02:26 PM

Let me drop some learnin' on tha' kids. Go here if you want to *gasp* actually learn copyright laws:

http://www.copyright.gov/

Kitsune Sniper

08-27-2009, 10:06 PM

I know very little about copyright, but it would definitely be best if Universal gave its approval to such a release. They -probably- won't care about the game, but there's always ONE GUY who might think otherwise.

And personally, I don't want to see the programmer get sued over releasing a game that isn't entirely his (in regards to IP.)

Robocop2

08-28-2009, 10:16 AM

I'm sure Universal would love to make something off of Waterworld.... ;)

OldSchoolSegaGuy

08-29-2011, 05:05 PM

Baloo

08-29-2011, 05:08 PM

Sorry to bump this old thread, but I'm the old sega employee that was selling everything a while back on ebay. I was going through my final games to sell and found a copy of this game that was final on saturn media.

Had no clue it was canceled... was it never leaked to the interwebs?

You have a full copy, as in one with cover artwork and manual? Can you show us some pictures? :D And is it for sale?

Games usually don't get leaked to the internet unless someone finds the ROM themself and dumps it.

OldSchoolSegaGuy

08-29-2011, 05:18 PM

No, it never went to production. What I have by "final" is the code is final. I have a version that Ocean submitted to Third Party testing for certification. It never went to the factory but we approved it. And Saturn Media means it was burned onto Saturn CD-R's made by Sega with the CD case and insert being official Saturn media as well.

It is for sale but I have no clue what it's worth.

gameofyou

08-29-2011, 09:46 PM

If that is true, that is freakin awesome news. I have wanted to play this game for years. I'm sure that I couldn't afford to buy the proto, but I would be happy to chip in.

OldSchoolSegaGuy

08-30-2011, 11:54 AM

If that is true, that is freakin awesome news. I have wanted to play this game for years. I'm sure that I couldn't afford to buy the proto, but I would be happy to chip in.

Not "if" it is true, it is. I see that there isn't even footage out for it... no gameplay. I have booted it up before but never played it as I never knew it was this rare. It's not a prototype, but the full final finished version. Looks like it just never released due to legal reasons.

Anyone can PM me an offer on it... I'm "mrbuddywayne" on ebay. I'm working today but I'll see if I can't upload a youtube video sometime soon of me playing the game.

Baloo

08-30-2011, 12:03 PM

Some gameplay footage would be awesome! :D

67dash

08-30-2011, 12:24 PM

Put it up on ebay. See what it goes for

OldSchoolSegaGuy

08-30-2011, 12:47 PM

Put it up on ebay. See what it goes for

It is hard selling unreleased stuff through ebay. With other pre-released games you can just say it's a press copy but if it never came out they could cancel it.

fahlim003

08-30-2011, 01:13 PM

It is hard selling unreleased stuff through ebay. With other pre-released games you can just say it's a press copy but if it never came out they could cancel it.
A private sale outside of ebay is your best bet in this case. It's cool to hear someone coming forward about this game - should be interesting to see how the game looks and if and when it is sold/preserved.

Clownzilla

08-30-2011, 03:19 PM

In reality Universal will probably tell you outright that it's their property and you can't use it. Legally they are right and there is nothing you can do about it. HOWEVER, realistically if the game ISO just happened to get circulated then would Universal waste time and resoruces going after a handful of gamers for no benefit other than protecting such a fine property from being tainted by an unreleased game for a 15 year old game system. Are they going to claim that the game does not represent the solid gold reputation of the all mighty Water World franchise. Now, if this were a more succesfull franchise then I can see them taking a closer look but it's.........Water World. I'm not saying break the law but just making an observation on what a more likely outcome for a low-key hobby gamer, absolutley free release would be.

Kitsune Sniper

08-30-2011, 03:32 PM

Regardless of what you do with the game, sell it or release it or whatever - it would be great if you could make some gameplay videos. That way at least some history will be documented. :)

OldSchoolSegaGuy

08-30-2011, 03:53 PM

DreamTR

08-30-2011, 04:13 PM

I'm not worried about lawsuits... I'm just worried about eBay closing my auction before I get a chance to sell it.

Sell it on Assembler, sell it privately. $500-1000 I am sure you will get for it.

gameofyou

08-30-2011, 04:44 PM

Not "if" it is true, it is.

Lol, I believe you. I've just learned, over the years, to be very skeptical of claims made on the internet. :)

norkusa

08-30-2011, 04:53 PM

Sell it on Assembler, sell it privately. $500-1000 I am sure you will get for it.

This.

OldSchoolSegaGuy

08-30-2011, 04:58 PM

Lol, I believe you. I've just learned, over the years, to be very skeptical of claims made on the internet. :)

Yeah, but if you knew anything of my ebay auctions you know I'm not joking on this. After all, there wouldn't be a Sonic Xtreme out there if it wasn't for my mindless collecting of stuff while I worked at Sega ;)

Sell it on Assembler, sell it privately. $500-1000 I am sure you will get for it.

I've gotten that much for stuff that was released internationally but not in the US and has been leaked to the internet previously. I'm very curious how much this would go for on eBay. I may just risk it.

xelement5x

08-30-2011, 06:17 PM

OldSchoolSegaGuy

08-30-2011, 06:26 PM

If you put it up on eBay then also include contact information so if it does get pulled down at least your interested buyers would have a way to contact you about it.

I would also love to see a gameplay video or two, I'm sure it's interesting to say the least!

Was thinking the exact same thing about the contact information. Oh, and I'll put up a video of gameplay once I get off my ass and drag my Saturn out of storage.

edit: Ha! While looking for an AV cable for my Saturn I found a Sega CDX unit I forgot I had. I'm sure those are worth some bucks.

kedawa

08-30-2011, 11:31 PM

I don't see the harm in listing it. If ebay removes the auction, just sell it elsewhere. What have you got to lose?

GameNinja

08-31-2011, 07:18 AM

This is certainly interested, please keep us posted on vids/future use of the proto!

synbiosfan

08-31-2011, 09:13 AM

On ASSEMbler he mentioned having troubles getting the game past the Sega screen so @_@

Baloo

08-31-2011, 11:30 AM

On ASSEMbler he mentioned having troubles getting the game past the Sega screen so @_@

Ah wow, that would be awful! :( Could be a bad Saturn laser though.

OldSchoolSegaGuy

08-31-2011, 04:14 PM

On ASSEMbler he mentioned having troubles getting the game past the Sega screen so @_@

Yeah, on one Saturn it boots and on another it won't get past the SEGA screen. It worked on my old Saturn but sold it so looking at other ways to get it going. I need it working as it would kill my resell value if it doesn't'.

fahlim003

08-31-2011, 05:56 PM

Yeah, on one Saturn it boots and on another it won't get past the SEGA screen. It worked on my old Saturn but sold it so looking at other ways to get it going. I need it working as it would kill my resell value if it doesn't'.
Do you have a decent modern computer? Emulation in SSF should work and it makes for easy screenshots/footage.
http://www7a.biglobe.ne.jp/~phantasy/ssf/files/SSF_012_beta_R2.zip

OldSchoolSegaGuy

09-01-2011, 03:36 PM

Do you have a decent modern computer? Emulation in SSF should work and it makes for easy screenshots/footage.
http://www7a.biglobe.ne.jp/~phantasy/ssf/files/SSF_012_beta_R2.zip

I have never run any emulator and this is alien to me... I've always had boot discs. You got a how to video to get it running?

fahlim003

09-06-2011, 02:40 PM

I have never run any emulator and this is alien to me... I've always had boot discs. You got a how to video to get it running?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EB3-b5oPENA
Should cover everything.

Nonplus

09-08-2011, 03:18 AM

Glad to know my dad was the only person who liked Waterworld. He always acted like I was the crazy one....

Drixxel

09-08-2011, 03:25 AM

As an indiscriminating adolescent viewer, I thought Waterworld was awesome. Is it really one of the worst box office bombs in history? Disputable.

I, for one, would love to see some footage of Saturn Waterworld if the threadstarter finds a way to make it happen.

squirrelnut

09-08-2011, 05:57 AM

And here I thought the VirtuaBoy had the definitive version of waterworld. I so can't wait to see this.

theclaw

09-08-2011, 06:21 AM

Be sure to back it up ASAP if your disc is at all readable cleanly enough. At least then should you get ripped off by a dishonest buyer or a postal mishap, you'll still have the chance to do something like release its ISO later.

A Black Falcon

09-09-2011, 04:39 AM

And here I thought the VirtuaBoy had the definitive version of waterworld. I so can't wait to see this.

There was also a PC Waterworld strategy game. It was released in '97, several years after the film and VB game. It didn't get particularly good scores, but probably is better than that game anyway...

OldSchoolSegaGuy

10-01-2012, 08:55 PM

Bumping this as I'm back and tired of looking at this disc. Looks like the game is not playable from the disc I have but a disc that holds the zipped files that need to be compiled and burned to a disc but my feeble brain can't do it. I have a programmer friend and a whole spindle of CD-r's to help me out. If anyone can give help creating a playable ISO from .dsk files please PM me. Thanks!

Baloo

10-01-2012, 11:33 PM

Would love to see this one get dumped.

wiggyx

10-01-2012, 11:44 PM

Why not upload the files so we can all take a hack at it?

fahlim003

10-02-2012, 12:45 PM

I would have to agree with the above two posters. Simply upload the disc in it's entirety so that progress can potentially be made.

BlastProcessing402

10-02-2012, 01:44 PM

Google seems to indicate PowerISO or MagicISO may be useful with regard to those .dsk files.

OldSchoolSegaGuy

10-02-2012, 02:03 PM

I would have to agree with the above two posters. Simply upload the disc in it's entirety so that progress can potentially be made.

The disc will not be dumped by me.

Mr. Saturn

10-03-2012, 06:26 AM

I�m pretty sure, we will get this game running...:onfire:

fahlim003

10-03-2012, 07:41 AM

The disc will not be dumped by me.
Good to know. I'd ask what happened to the idea to sell it, either on ebay or ASSEMBLER? This process has really dragged on so if you don't plan to sell it, I wish you the best of luck.

Mr. Saturn

10-03-2012, 08:07 AM

It will never be sold, it will be preserved for video game history...

buzz_n64

10-03-2012, 11:29 AM

It will never be sold, it will be preserved for video game history...

and played by no one. Might as well get sold, maybe the buyer may dump it, maybe not, but nothing is happening right now.

Mr. Saturn

10-03-2012, 11:35 AM

Keep cool, Return Fire, Major Damage and Chelnov were preserved for video game history too and you know what i did with them...
But right now, the game will not be leaked.

gameofyou

10-03-2012, 08:25 PM

Wow, it was over three years ago that I started this topic. Lol.

gameofyou

05-10-2014, 02:30 PM

I know its been a while, but did anyone ever get Saturn Waterworld running? I would love to at least see some videos of this game.

Mr. Saturn

05-10-2014, 03:19 PM

Nope, i had contact with the creator and oldschoolsegaguy, but neither of them were open to send the files or the CD with the files to me, that i could try to get it running as i did it with the other games yet...
I already made some artwork for the Covers (EU/US/JP).......sad.