Data East Arcade Classics on Wii

[Zap!]

I always got the feeling that Game Informer was anti-classic anyway, and mostly guys under 35.

[Melf]

But GI's classic section is A WHOLE PAGE LONG! How can you call them anti-classic?

[Zap!]

But GI's classic section is A WHOLE PAGE LONG! How can you call them anti-classic?

They ended that section around three issues ago, didn't they?

[Zap!]

Not sure how accurate this is, but IGN now lists it as a Feburary 23 release date. :(

http://wii.ign.com/objects/030/030802.html

[Leo_A]

I always got the feeling that Game Informer was anti-classic anyway, and mostly guys under 35.

It's also widely felt that they're not exactly fans of the Nintendo Wii. So it's no real surprise we saw them write a poor and inaccurate review.


I have NEVER relied on Game Informer's "influential and highly thought out" ratings for games they've reviewed. I get the mag every month, and it goes straight from my mailbox to a drawer in my bathroom so I have something to read while I'm on the crapper.

I only even mentioned it for a laugh at how poor it was and because they're the first mainstream media outlet to release a review for the title. It wasn't meant to be taken seriously.


I'd rather pay for one disc @ $50 that has 40-50 games on it than pay for three discs @ $20 a piece that have 15-20 games on them. I guess I just don't have enough faith in companies to put out subsequent releases of a game that gets the "Volume" tag added to it's name. Do you know how long I've been waiting for RapJam Vol. 2?! ROFL


I'm the same way, I'd rather pay a much higher price for a substantial amount of content. Just like tv shows on DVD where I'd much rather see something like how Get Smart was released every single time (All 5 seasons in a complete collection day 1) rather than buying a smaller release and having to hope it sold well enough for additional releases.

But they're testing the waters and if this fails, it was less risky than if they had done twice the amount of work and basically included every arcade classic they had available. If this sells well enough, maybe we will see additional volumes and perhaps see Majesco go after other ignored coin-op companies like Stern and Exidy. If we got all the Data East content from G-Mode's library on day 1 and it sold horribly (Almost a guarantee at that price point for content from a somewhat forgotten publisher), they would never try this again. You can bet even mainstream reviewers that have given positive review scores to compilations in the past (Such as IGN does occasionally) would blast this title at $50 regardless of the significant amount of content that was packaged in it.

Here is their review for those that are curious:


In Data East Arcade Classics, Majesco and G1M2 have compiled several classic coin-op titles from the 80s and 90s originally created by now defunct Data East Corporation for quick hits of nostalgia. This arcade collection offers just over a dozen titles spanning a variety of genres from puzzle to action, and though fun at first, the excitement of playing these dated arcade games quickly wears thin.

While there are a handful of games worth playing, the collection is weak at best. Some of the more notable games involve addicting burger assembly in BurgerTime, saving the president from ninjas in Bad Dudes, and no-holds-barred basketball in Street Hoop. Some of the other games, particularly action titles such as Heavy Barrel and Crude Buster expose the quarter guzzling nature of coin-op machines by throwing an unfair amount of enemies on screen at once. In this case you can ask a friend to join in on the action and fight through the hordes of baddies to get through the end. Data East’s action titles take about 15 minutes to complete. Even though they can be fun the first time around, there’s no real desire to go back for seconds, not even to unlock mediocre music soundtracks and other worthless gallery items. As far as the classic puzzle titles in the collection, with the exception of BurgerTime, the selection is pretty bland.

Data East Arcade Classics runs for about $20, which is within range of other arcade collections. However, unless you’re a hardcore fan of BurgerTime, Peter Pepper’s Ice Cream Factory or Bad Dudes, you’re better off saving your quarters.

http://gameinformer.com/games/data_east_arcade_classics/b/wii/archive/2010/02/09/review.aspx

First of all, he basically ignores every game in the collection from the early 80s, with just a mention of Burgertime. Doesn't ever discuss things like Lock n' Chase or Bump 'n' Jump. Someone with an interest in early 80s arcade games is going to get nothing out of this review despite that area of interest being one of the prime groups Majesco is targeting with this release.

I also doubt he beat any of the action games. Most all of them take significantly longer than 15 minutes to beat. There is no way be was beating games like Heavy Barrel in around 15 minutes.

There's also no mention of the quality of the emulation, the prime concern for anyone interested in this title. People buying this are buying it because they're attracted to the content. Something like Burgertime is a known quantity to a potential buyer of the collection. People want to hear how well of a job they did with the overall package and the emulation rather than be blasted with a full review showing the reviewer's poor taste and age in regards to the included titles.

Also, many people are taking the review to task for not mentioning Magical Drop 3, which is widely considered an excellent puzzle game. The reviewer just mentions Burgertime and states the other puzzle games are bland.

[Zap!]

Actually, it's a she. Annette Gonzalez (http://gameinformer.com/members/GIAnnette/default.aspx) wrote that review. Surprising, since in her bio it appears she likes classic gaming. Wonder how old she is.

[Xexyz]

Also, many people are taking the review to task for not mentioning Magical Drop 3, which is widely considered an excellent puzzle game. The reviewer just mentions Burgertime and states the other puzzle games are bland.

I came back to mention this but you beat me to it. I mean, Magical Drop 3 is essentially the fall back title for someone who winds up disappointed with the rest of the collection. It's a staple, high-quality and very re playable puzzle game that should have gotten at least a mention in the review.

[Damaramu]

I doubt she was even born when some of these games were first released. Yet another shameful Game Informer review.

:shameful:

[Ze_ro]

Surprising, since in her bio it appears she likes classic gaming. Wonder how old she is.
That doesn't mean anything... probably just means she likes Donkey Kong and Tetris. A lot of people claim to like older games just to look like they know what they're talking about and sound like they have experience when they really don't.

--Zero

[Leo_A]

Not sure how accurate this is, but IGN now lists it as a Feburary 23 release date. :(

http://wii.ign.com/objects/030/030802.html

Majesco issued an announcement saying it shipped today.

"February 16, 2010 - Leave the quarters in the piggybank and relive the arcade era's best titles from the comfort of your couch! Majesco Entertainment Company, an innovative provider of video games for the mass market, today announced that Data East Arcade Classics for Wii has shipped to retailers nationwide."

http://www.majescoentertainment.com/news/display_news.php?id=437

[Zap!]

Majesco issued an announcement saying it shipped today.

"February 16, 2010 - Leave the quarters in the piggybank and relive the arcade era's best titles from the comfort of your couch! Majesco Entertainment Company, an innovative provider of video games for the mass market, today announced that Data East Arcade Classics for Wii has shipped to retailers nationwide."

http://www.majescoentertainment.com/news/display_news.php?id=437

That's good news. Will it be in local GS stores by tomorrow?

[ReTrO-pLaYeR]

I really want to play the original CaveMan Ninja- which this collection has. But, I'm not ready to shell out 20 dollars...I'll just wait until it shows up on VC Arcade

[BetaWolf47]

Wow, $19.99? I'm getting this one for sure!

[Leo_A]

That's good news. Will it be in local GS stores by tomorrow?

It should, especially the further West a person is. Typically, GameStop will get in new releases by Wednesday afternoon/early evening, even out here on the Eastern Seaboard (I live by the Canadian border and the Adirondack Mountains in northern NY, so if we get games like this before the end of business on Wednesdays, you're safe in NYC as long as your GS is slated to get any copies).


I really want to play the original CaveMan Ninja- which this collection has. But, I'm not ready to shell out 20 dollars...I'll just wait until it shows up on VC Arcade

It's your money, but that doesn't make any sense to me. There's no indication Majesco, G-Mode itself, or any other party is out there waiting to license these Data East properties and release them on the Virtual Console.

And even if they did, it would cost you $6 for one game. You're just about at 1/3 the price of this retail release right there and this comes with 14 additional games. Unless you know you don't care for any of those other games, this seems like a much better value.

[joshnickerson]

I think I'll pick this up, in part to spite Game Informer, but also because I've never played most of these games before...

[Melf]

Sweet. I'll swing by GS tomorrow and see if they got it in.

[Zap!]

Sweet. I'll swing by GS tomorrow and see if they got it in.

Not only did they not get it in, but when I went tonight, they never heard of it. They couldn't even find it when they tried to look it up on their stupid CRT 80's computer. :(

[Leo_A]

It's in their system and is available on their website.

But for some reason, many budget releases don't appear in the store accessible database (And thus, you can't place a preorder). And because of that, you can't check the inventory records accessible to the public from the product page at GS's site to see if it's in stock.

It doesn't mean there aren't copies on the way. But it's a budget release and they may not even be slated to be recieving any.

IGN has also reviewed this with another poor effort. They also gave it a 5.0, which means we'll be getting a GameSpot review soon that gives it either a 4.9 or a 5.1

First, they insult the compilation by stating more than a dozen of the games suck (Note that there are 15 games in total). Then they complement 5 of the 15 games, and state that several more are mildly entertaining. That math doesn't add up. Is the majority of the compilation worthwhile titles or useless fodder to fill the collection up that isn't worth a single look?

Then they do the usual IGN rant about the menus sucking (Part of the IGN review template for classic compilation reviews). And they also criticize it for lacking 16x9 support to get the games to display properly if your system is set to 16x9.

It may be news to IGN, but if you're playing a Wii title that isn't widescreen compatible, that dashboard setting does nothing. It only affects the titles that have been enhanced with a 16x9 anamorphic widescreen mode by triggering that mode. It doesn't need to be turned off to play a 4:3 title because there's nothing for it to adjust.

http://wii.ign.com/articles/106/1069610p1.html

Edit - Amazon shipped it out to me on Wednesday, it entered UPS's tracking system at 9PM. So looks like it really was released on Tuesday.

[Zap!]

So has anyone found a copy locally anywhere yet?

[PapaStu]

Amazon told me mine shipped. Should be here in a few days.

[Tron 2.0]

Amazon told me mine shipped. Should be here in a few days.
Yeah i got a notice as well from amazon informing me it has.The most i'm worry about is how good the emulation is we shall see.

[Ed Oscuro]

Haha, joystuck is clueless. OH MAN A PORT OF DRAGONNINJA TOTALLY UNEXPECTED

Rad game but c'mon.

How about some of the rare and good stuff that nobody ever thinks about - Spinmaster, Gondomania, and so on.

That said, there's some good stuff here - Heavy Barrel, Crude Buster, other stuff that the idiot from IGN dismissed out of hand.

[Zap!]

Well, two more places didn't have it today, so I'm just gonna order it on Amazon.

[Leo_A]

Do you have a Toys R Us nearby? I've seen a half dozen people at a couple of forums that have had luck picking it up at that chain.

Everyone else is in the same boat I am and ordered online. Most of us are still waiting for it to arrive. I won't be getting my copy until Monday or so.

[Zap!]

Do you have a Toys R Us nearby? I've seen a half dozen people at a couple of forums that have had luck picking it up at that chain.

Everyone else is in the same boat I am and ordered online. Most of us are still waiting for it to arrive. I won't be getting my copy until Monday or so.

Yeah, I do but I had forgotten to go there. No big deal, I just ordered it on Amazon for $19.99, along with Madworld for like $12.99.

[Kitsune Sniper]

Do any of those reviews actually discuss the emulation quality or are they just "Let's bash teh games because they're old" reviews?

Edit:

As far as I know, they've done the SNK compilations for the Japanese marketplace and have a pretty good track record (Unlike the junk done by Terminal Reality for SNK like the King of Fighters Collection: The Orochi Saga).

It's just not widely known who they are since these games are all labeled everywhere as having been developed by SNK Playmore since G1M2 was just a contract developer.

They're mentioned as the porters in the manuals for the PS2 games, actually - but not on the box. And I've made sure to let people know about them in my own way. (http://www.mobygames.com/browse/games/g1m2/)

[Leo_A]

Nothing about emulation quality yet.

The closest we've had about that was IGN noticing that the vertically oriented games in the collection have a somewhat blurry look to them and inconsistent pixel sizes.

That's due to this release not being on a HD console. To maintain the correct 3:4 aspect ratio in a game like Burgertime, it's placed with black borders on both sides of the screen. That results in there not being quite enough screen resolution available (Remember that these games used the full area of 3:4 vertically monitors) and the collection has to do some downscaling.

The effects IGN noted are due to that downscaling.

[Ed Oscuro]

Yes, a HD console should help, as this is similar to the problem 240 Hz sets were invented to combat 24 Hz films playing at the wrong speeds, with 10:10 pulldown, while still working for other speed sources.

But you have some details wrong: The native resolution of these games does not surpass the Wii's resolution; there is no reason for "downscaling" which would result in actual details being lost (kind of like you can see when playing NES games in a fit-to-screen mode on the DS, as in Contra 4). The problem is from their problems running out of resolution doing the the exact opposite, upscaling.

When fake-vertically-oriented (pillarboxed), none of these games is going to actually exceed the vertical resolution of standard definition. Even newer games in the collection like Caveman Ninja, which is only 256x240, and Magical Drop, 320x224, wouldn't exceed SDTV resolution (if they were vertical games).

The problem is when there isn't an evenly divisible number of pixels - some internal game resolutions apparently aren't dividing evenly into the standard definition TV resolution, leading some pixels to be doubled and others not. The real problem is that modern TVs are optimized around square pixels, instead of the by-scanline approach of yore. Even if you had a CRT TV the way the system butts heads against the many different internal resolutions of these games is going to cause problems unless you have a system and set able to either play with scanlines or throw enough square pixels at it to please various resolutions - kind of like the 240Hz sets being used for both 60Hz and 24Hz sources.

Your example, Burger Time, is only 240 square internally - and should still fit comfortably in 640x480 - standard definition. That's enough resolution to do a simple vertical resize without people noticing it. On the other hand, Heavy Barrel is 256 pixels tall and so can't double all its pixels evenly (it'd need 512 rows to do it). I'm guessing they kinda-sorta line doubled (but apparently not if they're not getting a good result on Burger Time) and then applied a simple blur.

Unless they put a dumb border around the screen, Burger Time theoretically should line double perfectly, with each vertical pixel mapping to two of the vertical pixels of SDTV. Interpolating Heavy Barrel's output would get rid of the fat / thin rows problem, but invented and deleted "detail" could make things worse.

There is also the matter of the Wii being (apparently) anamorphic internally, but that affects columns of pixels, not rows...

[Leo_A]

Edit - I guess that does make some sense after reading it a second time (I wasn't convinced with my initial reply that I've since replaced after giving your post more thought). Thanks for the clarification on why some of these games are sufferring from those effects. I basically knew why the problems were happening (The differences in resolution from what the game was originally outputted at and what this collection now needs to be outputting), but I guess my theory on exactly what was happening was off a bit.

I do know what I said has affected some modern shooters in previous years when they're pillarboxed at home (Which TATE mode solves when available), but they're running at a much higher resolution then a early arcade release like Burgertime is.

"The native resolution of these games does not surpass the Wii's resolution"

I never thought they did.

But when you're outputting a game that has a high enough resolution and change it from running full screen on a 3:4 arcade monitor to suddenly trying to output it to a 4:3 monitor of the same resolution with the sides of the monitor lopped off to preserve the vertical aspect ratio of the original game, you're losing available resolution on the screen to those borders. So I figured these games ran at a high enough resolution that there just weren't enough pixels left in that pillarboxed screen area for the game to be displayed in without some processing of the signal to occur to allow it to be displayed in just a portion of a 4:3 SD/ED resolution screen. Downscaling made sense to me at the time as an explanation, although it now appears that I basically had the issue the opposite of what it actually was.

"The real problem is that modern TVs are optimized around square pixels, instead of the by-scanline approach of yore."

The effect is being noticed with the vertical titles even on modern non HD CRT televisions (Not just DLP/LCD/Plasma HD sets), which I don't believe work any different then a raster monitor out of a machine from the early 1980s like Bump 'n' Jump (Besides being rotated 90 degrees to get a 3:4 AR). It doesn't appear to be negatively impacting the 4:3 titles on a SDTV.

"There is also the matter of the Wii being (apparently) anamorphic internally, but that affects columns of pixels, not rows.."

I don't understand? As far as I know, the Wii internally is still a 4:3 console. Any game that has a anamorphic widescreen mode (Which this game lacks) is doing it in software and sending that signal to the Wii's video circuitry as a normal 4:3 signal, which your television has to re expand by stretching to get a widescreen image with everything having the correct proportions.

[Ed Oscuro]

But when you're outputting a game that has a high enough resolution and change it from running full screen on a 3:4 arcade monitor to suddenly trying to output it to a 4:3 monitor of the same resolution
Leaving aside the idea of a "3:4 monitor" (it's just a 4:3 monitor on its side, so the scanlines run up and down): The Wii's and the standardized SDTV resolution is higher than all of these arcade games. You're not outputting to a "monitor" (here a TV) of the same resolution, but one of a higher resolution via the SDTV signal's resolution (a resolution determined by the Wii and standardized in the industry for television sets). As we noted earlier, this resolution is often not high enough to be evenly divisible with the original arcade games' internal resolutions; at best, just high enough that the difference between the actual size of on-screen pixels isn't that large, such as when playing MAME unstretched and unfiltered on a high-resolution computer monitor where each "pixel" covers multiple pixels of the monitor in both directions.


"The real problem is that modern TVs are optimized around square pixels, instead of the by-scanline approach of yore."
The effect is being noticed with the vertical titles even on modern non HD CRT televisions (Not just DLP/LCD/Plasma HD sets), which I don't believe work any different then a raster monitor out of a machine from the early 1980s like Bump 'n' Jump (Besides being rotated 90 degrees to get a 3:4 AR). It doesn't appear to be negatively impacting the 4:3 titles on a SDTV.
I misspoke: Instead of saying "the by-scanline approach of yore," I should say that ALL televisions use a fixed resolution input from your device (NTSC Standard Def from the Wii in our example), so you can't pick and choose how many scanlines each image will be on the fly according to the need.

Special-purpose (often used for video production) and arcade RGB monitors actually do have specified "resolutions" (the number of scanlines physically present), but even in broadcast monitors you were fine feeding them lots of different "resolution" signals, such as those found in arcade games. They will look 100% correct with no "fat pixels" because the actual width and height of each internal "pixel" is correctly divided into the rest of the image. Each internal arcade game pixel becomes a fraction of each scanline (horizontal resolution), and each scanline is a fraction of the total screen (vertical) - the timing signals tell the beam how long to paint the screen with that pixel, and how tall every pixel becomes, essentially.

This custom fit-from-the-signal approach simply is not possible with LCD TVs, but with older TVs, the internal resolution of the Wii means this still isn't possible because every arcade game's resolution has eventually to be matched to the Wii's. All you can hope for is a solution using simple blur, Photoshop-like pixel-averaging (too expensive for real-time graphics I bet) or maybe something like Microsoft ClearType (if that would even help) on LCD TVs only.

You note that the horizontal games don't appear affected much, which is probably due to there being more actual resolution in the signal to play with. I'd assume horizontal games to still be affected.

I don't really know what the deal is with the Wii's anamorphic video, but I threw that out there because the main culprit seems to be vertical resolution, which anamorphic video doesn't affect.

[Zap!]

So who's played it yet?

[Leo_A]

Leaving aside the idea of a "3:4 monitor" (it's just a 4:3 monitor on its side, so the scanlines run up and down): The Wii's and the standardized SDTV resolution is higher than all of these arcade games. You're not outputting to a "monitor" (here a TV) of the same resolution, but one of a higher resolution via the SDTV signal's resolution (a resolution determined by the Wii and standardized in the industry for television sets).

It's late and I just got home, so I plan to expand on this further when I'm doing more than just quickly scanning your response.

I was being quite clear I thought that I knew what a 3:4 monitor is. Without checking, I think I used a statement about it being a 4:3 monitor rotated on it's side somewhere. At the very least, I intended to try to convey that I know that a monitor situated in a 3:4 AR is just a standard monitor rotated 90 degrees.

So you're saying a arcade raster monitor from 1982 is of a lower resolution than a standard definition television is today? I was under the (Mistaken?) impression that they were interlaced 640×480 displays (Or 480x640 when situated in a 3:4 orientation).

I believe UPS will be delivering mine tomorrow. I'm looking forward to getting a first hand look at this compilation.

[Xexyz]

I was kind of hoping that Taito set a standard with their Taito Memories II line, in that all arcade compilations featuring 3:4 ratio games had an optional TATE mode. Oh well, even though a Japanese developer worked on this compilation, it is only slated for a Western release as of now, and our publishers seem more hesitant with releasing games with a TATE option (although most shmups these days have it in tact).

[ubersaurus]

I played it briefly when I snagged it on Saturday from TRU; Burgertime seemed pretty much proper, and Peter Pepper's Ice Cream Factory is as weird as I've heard. Those were the only games I had the time to check out though; I hope to put some more time into the collection today.

[tpugmire]

I've been driving around today trying to find it, but no luck so far... I'm going to check some more stores tonight. I really want to play this.

[ubersaurus]

Hilarious glitch my friend and I found earlier:

In Burgertime, Burnin Rubber, and possibly other games, if you do two players with two controllers, both players will be in control at all times. I know that normally, it'll just go to one controller, but I suppose they did not disable that if two are active.

This doesn't apply to other 2 player games we did: Caveman Ninja, Bad Dudes, Magical Drop, Wizard Fire... so I'm guessing it's just the very old games that have this particular glitch in em. Makes for an interesting co-op experience, I'll say that much.

[Leo_A]

When you think about it, that makes perfect sense.

Games like Bump 'n' Jump and Burgertime have alternating two player modes sharing one set of controls in the arcade.

This is really no different besides G1M2 making it be a bit more convenient by allowing two sets of controllers to both be that 1 set of controls so you don't have to pass the controller on to the next player everytime.

I don't see a easy way for them to have changed this without modifying the original code, which seems like it would be a daunting effort without the original source code. Also doesn't seem like it would be a easy task for the emulator to recognize which controller should be active at which time.

So I wouldn't call this a glitch. I'm all but convinced it was an intentional design decision due to the original nature of the games in question.




This custom fit-from-the-signal approach simply is not possible with LCD TVs, but with older TVs, the internal resolution of the Wii means this still isn't possible because every arcade game's resolution has eventually to be matched to the Wii's.

I largely agree with your post after reading it closely just now. However, I'm not sure this statement is entirely correct. Most all of the emulator's on the Virtual Console are sending out the original resolution (Such as 240p in the case of SuperNes titles) when the console is set to 480i.

That the Wii is capable of doing that suggest to me that the resolution of every Wii title doesn't have to be matched to the maximum the Wii is capable of outputting (480i or 480p).

[Leo_A]

It arrived today.

I'm fairly pleased so far after trying several games. I think the menu does it's job well. There appears to be a nice slate of unlockables like original arcade flyers to unlock. There aren't long load times (A complaint I've seen at another forum). The dual analog setup works well in Heavy Barrel. The visual complaints aren't bothering me and games like Burgertime look fine on my CRT.

The one problem I have encountered is there are missing sound effects in Bump 'n' Jump. You don't hear the sound of your engine like you should. And you also don't make a sound when you crash like I believe the arcade original did, although the opponent cars do have a crashing sound. Also, I think Heavy Barrel might be running slightly below full speed. But I'm not as familiar with that game as others here are, so I'll leave that for someone else to take a close look at.

Edit - The speed of Heavy Barrel appears to be accurate. It appears that MAME actually plays the title too fast (Similar to how Super FX titles like Star Fox run slightly too quick in ZSNES for another example) and that the speed the game is running at in this collection is accurate to the original coinop hardware after G1M2 took a close look at this game.

After playing the arcade release of Bump 'n' Jump for the first time in years, I'm even more impressed at how nice of a job Mattel did in translating this game to the weak Atari 2600. They did a great job of keeping the spirit of this game intact.

[Ed Oscuro]

So you're saying a arcade raster monitor from 1982 is of a lower resolution than a standard definition television is today?
No, but it probably would be due to the lower resolution demand on said monitor than on a SDTV. The main advantage an arcade monitor has over a TV is the easy RGB input.

That said, it doesn't matter what "resolution" (which would come out to the maximum number of lines a CRT can natively display) the "original" monitor is, because it's being fed a signal which is only so many lines tall. As I hinted before, Sony's line of professional broadcast CRT monitors vary widely in how many horizontal lines (rows) they are advertised as displaying (at maximum); some models have 450 (and lower), others have 600, and many have numbers all in between. Any classic low-resolution arcade signal (and probably medium-resolution ones as well) still look just fine because the fraction of the screen covered by each sweep of the beam is the same as the rest, and as long as you're not exceeding the specified resolution of the monitor there should be no loss of detail (not quite sure how that last bit works out - in theory I think scanlines can share one of these lines of resolution, but it probably wouldn't be optimal).

The height listed in MAME is what the game uses internally, but it also determines how thin (or wide) that particular scanline is on a CRT, and that's what MAME approximates for its 4:3 normalized output.

You can have a 4000x4000 CRT, but if you're only feeding it a signal 240 lines tall (or whatever) there's not really any difference.

I'd expect modern CRTs (before they went all-out in a race to the bottom of the barrel with digital components instead of analog, and so on) to be higher quality than old arcade monitors.

[Leo_A]

I still haven't touched most of the games.

Bad Dudes seems to be running correctly. I went quite a ways into it using a couple of credits before going to bed last night, and I didn't encounter any problems. Everything seems to be the way it should be.

I confirmed that Bump 'n' Jump does have a sound effect for when the player's vehicle crashes in the coinop, which I've yet to hear in this release. I also tried setting my Wii's audio to mono in the vain hope that maybe the stereo setting wasn't playing well with the emulator for this title (The game was mono in the arcade). But as expected, it didn't change anything.

Also thought it was odd that occasionally things would momentarily speed up really quickly, such as near the end of a season right before reaching the end. But it appears to be happening in other emulators too and in YouTube videos of the game playing in MAME, so I think it's accurate and the original hardware does it too (Been years since I've encountered this machine so I've apparantly just forgotten about that).

I haven't noticed anything off with the audio in Burgertime or Lock 'n' Chase yet (The other two I was most interesed in after Bump 'n' Jump), but I also haven't spent much time yet with them. Hopefully they're okay, although they ran off the same hardware as Bump 'n' Jump.

Magical Drop III is being reported as having some sound effects drop out occasionally. Looks and plays fine to me and sounded right during a couple of play throughs, but there might be some minor issues that a diehard fan would pick up on.

Doesn't appear to be perfection, but I've yet to see a classic compilation that was. For every problem I'm encountering, I'm seeing many things that were done right. If I were to rate this game at this stage, I'd consider this safely around a B to a B+. Seems like a solid effort for the most part. Even compilations held in the highest regard like Activision Anthology for the Playstation 2 still have their fair share of issues, often with the audio which seems to be the toughest area for emulation programmers (Like missing sound effects in Pitfall in AA).

[Zap!]

I got this in the mail on Wednesday from Amazon. I ordered it Friday, after not being able to find it in any store. I haven't played it much so far, but for $19.99, I can't complain too much. I beat Bad Dudes and tried several other games. I wasn't too happy with the controls, so hopefully it has the option to use the Classic Controller. Other than that, a fun compilation.

[PapaStu]

We opened ours today.... There were some weird sound effects in Magical Drop III that wern't in the original game. I'm also pretty pissed because it didn't save our 'challenge' tasks, so now i'm going to have to replay Bad Dudes again, and katchoo is going to have to redo a bunch of stuff in Magical Drop.

What are we supposed to do, to get out of a game and back to the main selection screen? No matter what we pushed, we couldn't get back.

[Leo_A]

I've spent some time this evening with Burgertime and Lock 'n' Chase and came away pleased. They don't seem to suffer the problems that Bump 'n' Jump using the same hardware does on this collection. All sounds seem to be present and sound pretty close to how they should. If anything is off, it's just slight.

As for losing the goals that have been completed, you have to open up the ingame menu and save so things like that aren't lost.

I've had no trouble exiting games. Using the Wii remote, I hit the minus button to bring up the ingame menu, scroll down to exit game and press the 1 button on the Wii remote followed by another press of the 1 button to confirm that you really want to exit out.


I wasn't too happy with the controls, so hopefully it has the option to use the Classic Controller. Other than that, a fun compilation.

Supports the Wii remote, Wii remote/Nunchuk, Classic Controller, and GameCube controllers.

[Zap!]

Supports the Wii remote, Wii remote/Nunchuk, Classic Controller, and GameCube controllers.

I had been playing with the Wiimote and Nunchuck and didn't like that combo. I just finished playing with the Classic Controller and was very pleased.

[gepeto]

I played some games today and I must say to me this is one of the best burgertime translations to home console. Also the bump n Jump, I loved it as a kid. As a kid I believed I was speed racer using his automatic jack. ( I swear that is where they got the idea from)LOL

It totally reminds me of the intellivision conversions missing some sound effects but excellent in my opinion. Does this game have an ending. I remember making it pretty far. The jumps got crazy.

[Leo_A]

GameFaqs user Terebi_chan reports that in Lock 'n' Chase, Clementine does play a bit slow (I don't really notice a difference).

Also he states that it keeps playing even after the money bag disappears (Regardless if you picked or didn't pick it up). It also doesn't stop playing until you lose a life. Also, the "music for getting a stage-specific bonus item (e.g., your character's hat in the first stage) has the same problem". I can confirm that these are happening after spending more time with it before posting.

He also spotted another few problems with Bump 'n' Jump. The "Player 1 Get Ready" prompt that appears when you lose a life isn't present, which I hadn't picked up on. Also, the music continues to play after the game returns to the attract mode. I wrote that off when I noticed it as the DIP switch selection G1M2 used since some arcade titles do allow the arcade operator to have background music played during attract modes and/or sound effects. But he states it's incorrect for this game.

So sadly it appears that they fell somewhat short with their emulator for these three titles.

[Xexyz]

Well then, Majesco better ante up and hire on M2 for the next Data East compilation.

[slapdash]

Hmm... If sounds are missing, that's one thing; but if a visual element like the "Player 1 Get Ready" is missing... That sounds like maybe it's not even emulated, but just ported.

[Brianvgplayer]

Hmm... If sounds are missing, that's one thing; but if a visual element like the "Player 1 Get Ready" is missing... That sounds like maybe it's not even emulated, but just ported.

I don't think it's a porting issue. Most romsets of Burnin' Rubber/Bump 'n Jump are missing the "Player 1 Get Ready" after losing a life, so I think it was something added to the Midway version. It's definitely emulation.

[slapdash]

Ah, didn't know about the romset variations. Interesting.

[joshnickerson]

I picked my copy up this evening and popped it in for a bit. Out of all of the titles, I've only played Bad Dudes before in the arcades, so I'm looking forward to some new game experiences. Magical Drop is a pretty fun Bust-A-Move clone, though I found myself trying to shoot bubbles, forgetting that I had to grab some first. Didn't like Bump N Jump at all, and I had a hard time playing Burgertime. Might need to play it a bit more though. Haven't been able to test drive the other titles yet, but so far Bad Dudes and Magical Drop make it worth the paltry $20.

[Leo_A]

I don't think it's a porting issue. Most romsets of Burnin' Rubber/Bump 'n Jump are missing the "Player 1 Get Ready" after losing a life, so I think it was something added to the Midway version. It's definitely emulation.

You're correct, it was added to the Midway version so it's not a problem with this collection.

[PapaStu]

Magical Drop is a pretty fun Bust-A-Move clone, though I found myself trying to shoot bubbles, forgetting that I had to grab some first. Haven't been able to test drive the other titles yet, but so far Bad Dudes and Magical Drop make it worth the paltry $20.

A CLONE!?! How dare you. Wash that mouth out with soap I say.

Anyways, other than our copy taking some time to boot initally (this could be our Wii's issue and not the disc) Magical Drop is played pretty much exclusively. The Hori Fighting Stick REALLY makes Magical Drop (and i'd assume the other games) much more playable and give it the arcade feel that the Wiimote on its side just doesn't bring.

[pragmatic insanester]

Arcade versions of Bad Dudes and Crude Buster are worth the $20 price tag alone

[Beefy Hits]

Too bad Road Avenger and Panic isn't included on this. It would be worth it alone for Road Avenger!

[Xexyz]

I have to say, I'm not a fan of how G1M2 handled Heavy Barrel at all. Why the hell is the CC twin stick control option so terrible? I'm not annoyed that the twin-sticks are analog, I just really wish they had implemented an auto-firing option when you use the right stick. The L & R buttons are terrible for rapid fire and awkward to repeatedly tap when using both sticks. A Smash T.V./Total Carnage style control option is always a safe bet for rotary stick based coin-op games. Hope they thought about this for the Ikari Warriors games in their upcoming SNK Arcade Classics 0 PSP release.

[Leo_A]

I agree, I didn't care for that one bit. I was happy to be able to independently target and not be forced to just shoot in the direction my character was facing, but they should've took it one step forward beyond that.

Technically though, that was how it was in the arcade. Twisting the rotary stick just aimed and you had to use separate buttons for firing your weapons and throwing grenades.

Just the same, I would've liked the option when using a Classic Controller or GCN controller that your primary fire button would automatically trigger whenever using the right analog to aim. And it would of course have to be set to autofire to achieve the desired effect.

[QuickSciFi]

I'm definitely getting this. I just recently beat Atomic Runner and Darwin 4081. Too bad that Chelnov is not on there. But no matter. I'm a big fan of Data East.

[Leo_A]

For those of you that love Heavy Barrel on this collection, here's a perfect controller for you.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61dzRjFzQJL._SL1000_.jpg

It's the upcoming Hori Battle Pad Turbo, a Classic Controller equivalent and one of two such upcoming GameCube style clones (PDP's also coming out with similarly themed officially licensed GCN style Classic Controllers for November's Super Smash Brothers launch). Note the turbo functionality which means no more constantly and repeatedly pressing the right shoulder button to fire your primary weapon in Heavy Barrel.

I don't know about anyone else, but my hands didn't appreciate that even though it was accurate to the arcade original. I'd of preferred that G1M2 would've set this up with their emulator so that the main gun would automatically trigger any time you aimed with the right analog stick (Like Robotron 2084 and similar games).

But just keeping R depressed should be much easier on the hands (And the short throw is also nice compared to using the GameCube or original Classic Controller). :)

[celerystalker]

Nice controller, but not for Heavy Barrel. I mean, dual analog is better than goofy shoulder button rotation, but if you've played games like Heavy Barrel, Guerilla War, or Time Soldiers on a cabinet, the 12 position rotating joystick is a totally different experience... I guess for practicality this is as good of a solution as there is, but man, it's so different.

[Leo_A]

Indeed, but the manner this collection uses the right analog stick is the best one can do short of owning an actual cabinet. And this controller should rectify the biggest issue, as explained in post #131 that remained with their setup.

That's assuming of course that turbo functionality applies to the shoulder buttons as well and isn't restricted to just the face buttons.


I have to say, I'm not a fan of how G1M2 handled Heavy Barrel at all. Why the hell is the CC twin stick control option so terrible? I'm not annoyed that the twin-sticks are analog, I just really wish they had implemented an auto-firing option when you use the right stick. The L & R buttons are terrible for rapid fire and awkward to repeatedly tap when using both sticks. A Smash T.V./Total Carnage style control option is always a safe bet for rotary stick based coin-op games.

[celerystalker]

Definitely true. I wish there was an X arcade rotary stick or something similar, though. I have a Time Soldiers dedicated cabinet in my basement I can throw Heavy Barrel into, but it'd be an expensive option by comparison for most if they don't have one, 'cause those old Seimitsu sticks are getting pricey. One thing turbo removes, though, is that on some of these games, like Time Soldiers, turbo fire is a power up that has a major impact on play strategy. I can't remember if that was the case with Heavy Barrel, though, as I haven't played it in quite awhile other than the NES port. I have this compilation, too, but I always get caught up playing Burgertime with my wife for high scores and who gets to pick our next date. I wish she was worse at it...

[Leo_A]

If you want to see a really bad implementation of LS30 games, check out G1M2's PSP Minis for SNK such as Time Soldiers, the Ikari Warriors series, etc.

You had to use the shoulder buttons to rotate for aiming, instead of AXBY (In Nintendo button terminology) doubling for 8 way independent aiming like has been done in twin stick shooters such as Robotron 2084 over the years on various systems without dual analog sticks.

It absolutely killed the half dozen or so rotary stick games that were released.

[celerystalker]

Oh, totally. I bought SNK Arcade Classics 0 on PSP, and playing Ikari or Guerilla War is just horrific. If that had been my only experience with them I'd think they were terrible. Conversely, Time Soldiers is an all time favorite for me to the point it was the first arcade cabinet I bought. The first time I finished it in one credit was such a rush, and my button hand was so tired from that last stage.

[Beefy Hits]

One nice thing about this collection is that it has 2 expensive Neo Geo games on it: Street Hoop (Dunk Dreams) + Magical Drop III