PS3 slim sells over half a milion in a week!

[megasdkirby]

Yeah but being gimmicky and constantly releasing shitty games at the same time does detract from a console.

Again, it's not that it's gimmicky, as every console has a gimmick or two. But it's the implementation that is important.

Being poorly implemented gives a sense that it's "gimmicky", If there were better games, or like some call it "AAA" titles, your definition of gimmicky would change to "innovative". It was the same thing the DS was accused of being, "a gimmicky touch screen", and to be honest, I don't hear it quite so often because it's being used efficiently.

The moment the motion sensing technology is used to it's fullest is the day the term "gimmicky" will dissipate.

And like you stated, with so many crappy games, it's a shame that many think of it the way they do.

But Nintendo doesn't care: if it continues to make them millions, they will continue the same strategy.

[duffmanth]

I agree that every system has a gimmick or two, but that's the Wii's problem, it has too many gimmicks and novelties and not enough substance. You're also right saying that these gimmicks and novelties have made Nintendo millions, but it's already biting them in the ass now as Wii sales are going down in Japan and really leveling off in North America. The PS3 and 360 have their so called gimmicks like Six-axis, rumble, Natal coming, but those systems also have tonnes of great games as well, something the Wii is sorely lacking. The Wii better get a price drop and some solid AAA games soon, or it's going to go shit in the next 1-2 years.

[megasdkirby]

I agree: most games on the Wii focus on doing simple tasks with the controller, as though it's just showcasing what the controller can do instead of adding depth to the game.

It's a decent console, but I rarely play with my Wii. It's just not something I prefer to do my gaming on. It's not that it's bad, because it isn't...it's just now what I expected. Sure, it has good games, but all the games I see (at work) are either shovelware or of little interest to me. Because of this, I thought I wasn't into this generation of gaming, until I purchased the PS3, which I really LOVE. (up next is a X360...just waiting for certain things to "clear out" before I do. :))

I'm hoping certain games, like Shattered Memories, make good use of the Wii's controller, and not just use it for "flash".

[Sonicwolf]

The Wii has managed to get little attention from me once I finished with Brawl. So little on the system is worth playing.

[kupomogli]

It's a decent console, but I rarely play with my Wii. It's just not something I prefer to do my gaming on. It's not that it's bad, because it isn't...it's just now what I expected. ~~~ I thought I wasn't into this generation of gaming, until I purchased the PS3, which I really LOVE. (up next is a X360...just waiting for certain things to "clear out" before I do. :))

Man, and this is coming from an obvious Nintendo fan. That pretty much tells you the Wii's a crappy system :P.

Awesome you like the PS3 megasdkirby. Tied for this generations best system but me as a Sony fanboy and from the terrible 360 design(and I hate the controller,) this is my choice for this gen.

[Sonicwolf]

Nintendo really needs to get their act together and make some really killer titles if they want to really maintain a lead.

[arakias]

At first I thought it was just in the US which would have been outstanding but its still a very impressive figure

[duffmanth]

Nintendo really needs to get their act together and make some really killer titles if they want to really maintain a lead.

Nintendo's lead is already shrinking and I think will continue to do so. The Wii doesn't have the AAA games, the online presence, the power, or the decent 3rd party games that the PS3 and 360 have. A Wii price drop will probably spur sales short term, but I don't think the Wii has the legs to go strong for another few years. I think the Wii is going to be the N64 all over again, it's comes out of the gates strong, but fizzles out after a few years.

[The 1 2 P]

I think the Wii is going to be the N64 all over again, it's comes out of the gates strong, but fizzles out after a few years.

Considering that the Wii has already outsold the N64's total worldwide sales in less than three years(compared to the N64's 5-7 year life span), I'd say your comparison is grossly misplaced. And the Wii price cut is coming next month (http://www.industrygamers.com/news/rumor-nintendo-planning-wii-price-cut-for-early-october/).

[duffmanth]

Considering that the Wii has already outsold the N64's total worldwide sales in less than three years(compared to the N64's 5-7 year life span), I'd say your comparison is grossly misplaced. And the Wii price cut is coming next month (http://www.industrygamers.com/news/rumor-nintendo-planning-wii-price-cut-for-early-october/).

I realize the Wii has out sold the N64, I'm merely saying that if the Wii continues on its current path, I think there's a good chance that it will fizzle out like the N64 did. Like I also stated before, I think a Wii price drop will help it in the short term, but long term success is probably going to depend more on Nintendo delivering AAA games more frequently.

[megasdkirby]

I realize the Wii has out sold the N64, I'm merely saying that if the Wii continues on its current path, I think there's a good chance that it will fizzle out like the N64 did. Like I also stated before, I think a Wii price drop will help it in the short term, but long term success is probably going to depend more on Nintendo delivering AAA games more frequently.

Honestly, I don't think the Wii will be dethroned this generation. Although anything can happen, I don't see the Wii dropping to second or third place. Even if the other consoles sell extremely well, the amount of Wii consoles sold is just too many. This is because it will still continue to sell, even if the other consoles sell more. And this will just add to the amount of units sold, increasing it's number. The X360 and PS3 can sell relatively well this generation, but I don't see them topping the Wii.

This is unfortunately too, since the Wii...I don't know...not that it's a bad system...but... The games are just so...lacking. There are so much better games for the X360 and PS3 than the tons of shovelware the Wii has.

I would consider the PS3 more of a N64 than the Wii being an N64. Thinking they would be undefeated, the company makes poor decision choices leading to the collapse of leadership. Just look what happened to both Nintendo (with the N64) and Sony (with the PS3).

[duffmanth]

Ah who knows what's going to happen? I just think that if Nintendo and 3rd party companies don't start pumping out more AAA games for the Wii, I think it's really going to have an impact on it's sales and longevity.

[Press_Start]

Nintendo really needs to get their act together and make some really killer titles if they want to really maintain a lead.

They have....Mario Kart, Smash Bros Brawl, Twilight Princess, Mario Galaxy, Punch-Out, Metroid Corruption, Wario Land, etc.

And they are...Mario Galaxy 2, Pikmin 3, Sin and Punishment 2, Other M, and new Zelda game.

The so-called "lack of good Wii games" lies fault on the 3rd-party side. Their failure on the big N's system is of their own making thanks to their reluctance, poor audience recognition, and bad marketing.

[megasdkirby]

The so-called "lack of good Wii games" lies fault on the 3rd-party side. Their failure on the big N's system is of their own making thanks to their reluctance, poor audience recognition, and bad marketing.

It's like third party companies just want to release whatever crap they can to cash in on the Wii and make a quick buck. And in turn, games released are not up to par with those on the X360 and PS3.

The moment Vivid makes a Wii game, that is when the console will "revolutionise" LOL

[guitargary75]

The very fact that nintendo is beig talked about so much in a PS3 thread shows their dominance of the last three years!

[badinsults]

Nintendo really needs to get their act together and make some really killer titles if they want to really maintain a lead.

Nintendo already has some killer titles out the past year. They are called Wii Fit and Wii Sports Resort. Oh wait, you mean games that you think are killer? I don't think Nintendo cares about what you think. They are happy to make money off the general public and let the 20 million or so hardcore gamers left go to the Xbox 360 and PS3.

Hell, I got an Xbox 360. It has enough gaming goodness for me.

[Icarus Moonsight]

This reminds me of the "Nintendo software only" threads we all loved soooo much...

More Nintendo talk domination of a Sony thread... This is getting too predictable. Don't you think that fact alone is slightly telling? How about that RRoD? That's a topic that needs to be covered desperately. Or what about the casual/hardcore demographics? You rarely ever hear about that...

[Ze_ro]

Nintendo has already announced a new Zelda game, a new Metroid game, and TWO new Mario games for the Wii. That's their killer franchises... What more do you want from them?

--Zero

[Icarus Moonsight]

Wii <3 Real Dolls? Finally, justification for motion control! :vamp:

[Press_Start]

I don't think Nintendo cares about what you think. They are happy to make money off the general public and let the 20 million or so hardcore gamers left go to the Xbox 360 and PS3.

Yeah, cause bending over backwards and producing 10 or so great titles certainty shows how much they hate gamers. :roll:

[badinsults]

Yeah, cause bending over backwards and producing 10 or so great titles certainty shows how much they hate gamers. :roll:

Hey, I'm not saying the Wii is a bad system or that there are no good games. I quite enjoy many of them, including Wii Sports. But come on, you have to admit that it is not for "hardcore gamers". Most "hardcore games" fail miserably on Nintendo hardware, which is why you won't see games like Gears of War on the Wii. But the Wii was not marketed towards the hardcore gamer. It was marketed to people who would not regularly buy game systems. And in that regard, Nintendo was and is very successful.

The Xbox 360 and PS3 were always geared towards more traditional gamers, but that market is dwindling due to the aging demographics of the "hardcore gamer". Another problem is that innovation of hardcore games has diminished, and RPGs don't sell like they used to. Like it or not, Sony has suffered because of the downfall of the RPG, as Final Fantasy games were really the big system sellers for the PS1 and PS2. Although the PS3 will sell more at a lower price, I think Final Fantasy will come too late to change the game this console generation, and to boot it is also on the Xbox 360, eliminating any advantage.

[j_factor]

Ah who knows what's going to happen? I just think that if Nintendo and 3rd party companies don't start pumping out more AAA games for the Wii, I think it's really going to have an impact on it's sales and longevity.

I heard the same thing two years ago. I'd say it's still doing pretty well.

I'm not really sure what "AAA" means, but great games don't sell systems. Popular games sell systems. Popular features sell systems. Good marketing sells systems. Price point (to an extent) sells systems. A lot of people said the Wii would flop on release. When it didn't, it was then said that it would soon fizzle out. And people just keep on saying that. It still hasn't happened, and I don't see it happening anytime soon. Nintendo's lead isn't shrinking either -- unless I'm mistaken, Wii hasn't been outsold by another console in North America since the month Halo 3 was released. Its lead has only grown. The sales may be closer lately, but a smaller growth in lead isn't a shrinking lead.

[InsaneDavid]

Nintendo really needs to get their act together and make some really killer titles if they want to really maintain a lead.


Nintendo has already announced a new Zelda game, a new Metroid game, and TWO new Mario games for the Wii. That's their killer franchises... What more do you want from them?

--Zero

A YouTube graphic that looks suspiciously like a penis. Oh wait...

[Press_Start]

But come on, you have to admit that it is not for "hardcore gamers". Most "hardcore games" fail miserably on Nintendo hardware, which is why you won't see games like Gears of War on the Wii.

There in lies the problem.

Where does it say:

fun = hardcore

not fun = casual

The mentality that assumes one group comprehends fun while the other doesn't is a stupid one. The adoption of such a segregation by video gaming companies is stupider and a big reason they continue to fail on the Wii. The "casual crowd" is only guilty of being noobs, like every gamer on this forum started out. Don't deny it! No one is born a gamer. All it took was one game or games, whether it be on TV or at a friend's house, that made us believe in our minds that video gaming is the most awesome thing ever.

I believe companies are capable in producing games that appeal to everyone without devaluing it game-wise. By showcasing that spirit of video gaming fun we can all recognize and with a little proper marketing, developers will find success on the Wii without creating a "ghetto" selection of titles that ostracizes the "casual crowd". They just need to drop this highschool drama called "casual/hardcore" like a bad habit.

[badinsults]

There in lies the problem.

Where does it say:

fun = hardcore

not fun = casual

The mentality that assumes one group comprehends fun while the other doesn't is a stupid one. The adoption of such a segregation by video gaming companies is stupider and a big reason they continue to fail on the Wii. The "casual crowd" is only guilty of being noobs, like every gamer on this forum started out. Don't deny it! No one is born a gamer. All it took was one game or games, whether it be on TV or at a friend's house, that made us believe in our minds that video gaming is the most awesome thing ever.

I believe companies are capable in producing games that appeal to everyone without devaluing it game-wise. By showcasing that spirit of video gaming fun we can all recognize and with a little proper marketing, developers will find success on the Wii without creating a "ghetto" selection of titles that ostracizes the "casual crowd". They just need to drop this highschool drama called "casual/hardcore" like a bad habit.

/me watches the point of his argument fly right over Press_Start's head

I'm not arguing about fun here. Wii Sports is fun. So are many of the games for the Wii. However, I would define hardcore games as being:

- RPGs
- FPSs
- Fighting games
- Specialized racing games (ie Gran Turismo)
- Professional sports games

These were all genres that carried the last two generations of video games (and possibly the last three, though the side scrolling platformer was king in the 16-bit era). However, the importance of those genres and their overall sales have diminished greatly. Sure, the most hyped games in these genres still sell millions on the PS3 and Xbox 360, but it is largely to a diminishing audience. The rise of "casual gaming" (ie music games, Wii Sports, edutainment titles) has really hurt the potential that the PS3 and the Xbox 360 had coming into the present generation of consoles, and why the Wii is winning. However, the biggest thing that has hurt "hardcore games" is that there is a diminished audience for those genres above, for the reasons I stated in my previous post.

I am not dismissing those who enjoy the games that the Wii has to offer, all I am saying is that for me, as someone who enjoys the genres above, I would rather have an Xbox 360. And there is nothing wrong with that. It is the same with classic arcade games: there is an audience for that, but if you released Pac-Man with moderately upgraded graphics and new mazes but left the gameplay untouched, it would likely sell very few copies relative to Wii Fit even though it may still be considered "fun".

[The 1 2 P]

I realize the Wii has out sold the N64, I'm merely saying that if the Wii continues on its current path, I think there's a good chance that it will fizzle out like the N64 did. Like I also stated before, I think a Wii price drop will help it in the short term, but long term success is probably going to depend more on Nintendo delivering AAA games more frequently.

The Wii won't "fizzle out". Is it going to sell less than it sold it's first three years? Most likely. But considering they were averaging 400,000-600,000 systems sold a month(when there was ample supply and demand), it doesn't really matter if they only start selling 200,000-300,000 a month. The 360 would still have a hard time catching up to them and the PS3 will never catch up to them.


Honestly, I don't think the Wii will be dethroned this generation. Although anything can happen, I don't see the Wii dropping to second or third place. Even if the other consoles sell extremely well, the amount of Wii consoles sold is just too many. This is because it will still continue to sell, even if the other consoles sell more. And this will just add to the amount of units sold, increasing it's number. The X360 and PS3 can sell relatively well this generation, but I don't see them topping the Wii.

Excellent point and if I may tweak it a bit, the same logic applies to the PS3 catching up to the 360. Let's say the PS3 starts outselling the 360 by like 5,000-20,000 a month. The 360 would still be selling and everything they sell gets added up to their total. This is why I know that the PS3 will never catch the 360 in the US. This gen is halfway over now(4 years for the 360 and 3 years for the Wii and PS3) and all three systems have enough good games coming where things will pretty much remain the same. Despite how much Sony fans hang on every new AAA PS3 release, theres nothing that will get it out of last place. And the same goes for the 360. It has some amazing exclusives coming this year and next but none of those will get it out of second place. The Wii's lead is too far ahead.


I would consider the PS3 more of a N64 than the Wii being an N64. Thinking they would be undefeated, the company makes poor decision choices leading to the collapse of leadership. Just look what happened to both Nintendo (with the N64) and Sony (with the PS3).

Another excellent point, although you'd never get a Sony fanboy like Duffmanth to admit that. There are so many parallels between the PS3 and N64 but the most important would be each one arriving last during their generation and thinking that all of their fans were going to make their newest system number one just because they both had won the previous two generations. And then theres all the arrogance each showed in the beginning of what they thought would be their third conquering gen in a row. Nintendo learned their lesson and now it's Sony's turn. They are definitely alot less arrogant now than when this genration started(I suppose being in last place for three years straight can humble you) but the true test will be how they launch their next system. We have no idea when or where that will be but I can guarantee you that it won't be for $599.

[Press_Start]

No, Evan, you're missing the point. By defining one group as "our games" and another as "your games" the way you put it, implies that games reserved for "us" are reserved ONLY for "us" and no one outside that will understand is, IMO, wrong.

Take RPGs for example. During the 16-bit and early 32-bit era, RPGs were in the minority in an environment defined by action, adventure, and platformers. Then Final Fantasy 7 came and the RPG craze took place. Out of nowhere, the genre became popular cause a majority of gamers (who liked Crash Bandicoot, Mario, etc) took the first step and began to understand what made RPGs fun and wanted more, where beforehand didn't know what the heck it was. All cause they finally "got it".

Like FF7 for RPGs, Street Fighter II for fighters, Halo for FPS, etc., it's possible for the new crowd (defined by the "casual" stuff) to break out and enjoy the same things we do, maybe more. I'm waiting for developers to provide that first step and so far, they're doing a piss-poor job at that.

[Rickstilwell1]

Nintendo has already announced a new Zelda game, a new Metroid game, and TWO new Mario games for the Wii. That's their killer franchises... What more do you want from them?

--Zero

How about a new Kirby, a new Star Fox, a first party try at a new Donkey Kong adventure, and why not yet another standalone Yoshi game? Only the DS gives them any time of day anymore...

I wonder what Dragon Quest X will be like? Dragon Quest IX has to come on DS first though...

[kupomogli]

I heard the same thing two years ago. I'd say it's still doing pretty well.

Wii hasn't been outsold by another console in North America since the month Halo 3 was released.

You mean an altogether amount and not weekly right? Because the PS3 outsold the Wii two to one the past week in the US.

[duffmanth]

The Wii won't "fizzle out". Is it going to sell less than it sold it's first three years? Most likely. But considering they were averaging 400,000-600,000 systems sold a month(when there was ample supply and demand), it doesn't really matter if they only start selling 200,000-300,000 a month. The 360 would still have a hard time catching up to them and the PS3 will never catch up to them.



Excellent point and if I may tweak it a bit, the same logic applies to the PS3 catching up to the 360. Let's say the PS3 starts outselling the 360 by like 5,000-20,000 a month. The 360 would still be selling and everything they sell gets added up to their total. This is why I know that the PS3 will never catch the 360 in the US. This gen is halfway over now(4 years for the 360 and 3 years for the Wii and PS3) and all three systems have enough good games coming where things will pretty much remain the same. Despite how much Sony fans hang on every new AAA PS3 release, theres nothing that will get it out of last place. And the same goes for the 360. It has some amazing exclusives coming this year and next but none of those will get it out of second place. The Wii's lead is too far ahead.



Another excellent point, although you'd never get a Sony fanboy like Duffmanth to admit that. There are so many parallels between the PS3 and N64 but the most important would be each one arriving last during their generation and thinking that all of their fans were going to make their newest system number one just because they both had won the previous two generations. And then theres all the arrogance each showed in the beginning of what they thought would be their third conquering gen in a row. Nintendo learned their lesson and now it's Sony's turn. They are definitely alot less arrogant now than when this genration started(I suppose being in last place for three years straight can humble you) but the true test will be how they launch their next system. We have no idea when or where that will be but I can guarantee you that it won't be for $599.

I don't remember stating that the PS3 and 360 will catch up to the Wii, because they probably won't. I'm merely saying that the Wii price drop will help it in the short term. I just think if Nintendo continues on this path of releasing shitty shovelware and watered down games, with the odd AAA game thrown in there, it's going to have an impact on the system's long term sales and longevity.

[j_factor]

You mean an altogether amount and not weekly right? Because the PS3 outsold the Wii two to one the past week in the US.

I was just going by monthly sales, I don't pay attention to individual weeks. Weekly sales fluctuate more due to price drops, the arrival of certain games, etc. Even Saturn had individual weeks of being the #1 system in America. Doesn't really mean anything.

[megasdkirby]

I don't remember stating that the PS3 and 360 will catch up to the Wii, because they probably won't. I'm merely saying that the Wii price drop will help it in the short term.

Ah yes, it will always happen. Any console that is reduced in price will have a spike in sales for a short amount of time. The time frame is longer if done before the holiday season. Right now the PS3 is selling well. The only console I have not seen information on is the X360. the $300 price tag for the X360 seems to have been done very quietly, to little fanfare. At least at work, customers phone in for the PS3 and the Wii, but it's been weeks since anyone has asked for a X360. Very weird, I will admit.


I just think if Nintendo continues on this path of releasing shitty shovelware and watered down games, with the odd AAA game thrown in there, it's going to have an impact on the system's long term sales and longevity.

But imagine if the console was constantly bombarded with great games at a constant rate (I don't use the term "AAA" because it's all to the Eye of the Beholder...for instance, I think GTA is horrible while others think it's godly...it all depends on the person). Wii sales would be through the rood, hardcore gamers would notice the console, and give it a chance.

I bet that if the Wii had the same quality games found on the PS3 and X360, things would be even better for Nintendo.

[badinsults]

No, Evan, you're missing the point. By defining one group as "our games" and another as "your games" the way you put it, implies that games reserved for "us" are reserved ONLY for "us" and no one outside that will understand is, IMO, wrong.

Take RPGs for example. During the 16-bit and early 32-bit era, RPGs were in the minority in an environment defined by action, adventure, and platformers. Then Final Fantasy 7 came and the RPG craze took place. Out of nowhere, the genre became popular cause a majority of gamers (who liked Crash Bandicoot, Mario, etc) took the first step and began to understand what made RPGs fun and wanted more, where beforehand didn't know what the heck it was. All cause they finally "got it".

Like FF7 for RPGs, Street Fighter II for fighters, Halo for FPS, etc., it's possible for the new crowd (defined by the "casual" stuff) to break out and enjoy the same things we do, maybe more. I'm waiting for developers to provide that first step and so far, they're doing a piss-poor job at that.


You still don't get it. The people who are picking up the Wii for things like Wii Fit or Wii Sports are not likely going to be interested in the popular genres from previous generations, no matter how hard developers try to shove these titles down their throats. My uncle has a Wii sitting here in his living room, but he is not going to play a FPS. These people do not enjoy games that take hours to pass and require complex control schemes. This is why Nintendo designed the Wii, because they failed miserably with the Gamecube trying to emulate what Sony was doing with the PS2. I'm not pointing this out to diss people who like these games, but to point out the reality of the current video game market. People who like the traditional genres already have a PS3 and/or Xbox 360, so those genres do better on those systems than on the Wii.

And this is why I say that the price drop of the PS3 will have limited impact on the long term survival of the console. There is a limited amount of people who will buy the game genres I defined as "hardcore", and it is unlikely there will be much grown this market. In fact, I recall reading interviews by Nintendo management before the release of the Wii that stated that much. It doesn't matter how awesome the people on this forum think games like Ratchet and Clank, Metal Gear Solid 4 or LittleBigPlanet are, the fact is these games were all outsold by Wii minigames like Carnival Games. I doubt that these games would have sold much more if they were available on the Wii despite the larger user base.

[Press_Start]

You still don't get it. The people who are picking up the Wii for things like Wii Fit or Wii Sports are not likely going to be interested in the popular genres from previous generations, no matter how hard developers try to shove these titles down their throats.
Says who?!

Your whole argument rests on the fact they are a lost cause implies it's impossible to gain profit yet the major success of the big N's titles including Mario Kart, Mario Galaxy, and Smash Bros debunks it.



My uncle has a Wii sitting here in his living room, but he is not going to play a FPS. These people do not enjoy games that take hours to pass and require complex control schemes.

Has your uncle ever played a FPS? Did you ever take the time to sit down with him or your family and play some games outside the "casual" stuff? Like Metroid, Wario Land, or Final Fantasy? Cause I'm thinking the "hardcore" hate the idea of mom and dad playing Halo, God of War, and Killzone.


This is why Nintendo designed the Wii, because they failed miserably with the Gamecube trying to emulate what Sony was doing with the PS2.

I thought it was the bitchslapping Nintendo got the pandering to the "hardcore" for so long.


I'm not pointing this out to diss people who like these games, but to point out the reality of the current video game market. People who like the traditional genres already have a PS3 and/or Xbox 360, so those genres do better on those systems than on the Wii.

The same way they said Wii will never find a market outside the "hardcore" then big N's soaring sales Mario-stomped any doubt. The same way Mario Kart, Mario Galaxy, and Twilight Princess proves there's a respectfully strong interest in racing, platforming and adventure genres by the so-called "casual" crowd. Nintendo's money maker has brought the base, the numbers and the success. Third-party companies have themselves to blame for their streak of failure on the most selling console this generation for reasons as I've stated in a previous post.

[j_factor]

Says who?!

Your whole argument rests on the fact they are a lost cause implies it's impossible to gain profit yet the major success of the big N's titles including Mario Kart, Mario Galaxy, and Smash Bros debunks it.

Sorry to butt in, but... that doesn't at all contradict what he said. "The people who are picking up the Wii for things like Wii Fit or Wii Sports are not likely going to be interested in the popular genres from previous generations, no matter how hard developers try to shove these titles down their throats."

This is pretty true. When a "hardcore" game (whatever that means) comes out on the Wii -- which is far more often than the Wii bashers will admit -- it almost never sells terribly well. Red Steel is really the only exception I can think of.


Has your uncle ever played a FPS? Did you ever take the time to sit down with him or your family and play some games outside the "casual" stuff? Like Metroid, Wario Land, or Final Fantasy? Cause I'm thinking the "hardcore" hate the idea of mom and dad playing Halo, God of War, and Killzone.

My dad likes RPGs, point and click adventures, and turn-based strategy games. He likes that type of game because he doesn't like games that require fast reflexes. So I think of those as "casual" types of games. I mean think about it, an RPG is a game that you can just sit back and relax with, and not have to focus too hard on the game. But other people say RPGs are "hardcore". It's very ill-defined.

[Icarus Moonsight]

Gaming in general is extremely casual across the board. Hardcore, as a category where all games either fall into or out of, is just an attempt to inject seriousness and over-importance into something that by it's essence is actually neither.

Granted, hardcore can be used to accurately describe an occurrence in gaming. Like a guy that boots up MAME and plays a few screens of Donkey Kong, that's very casual. But, take "King of Kong" and the playing of Donkey Kong in that instance is defiantly hardcore.