Am I being unreasonable here?

[Kitsune Sniper]

I have a sealed copy of Maniac Mansion (Apple II) for sale. I predict that the item will sell for more than $100, give or take... but I'm getting some questions about shipping that are rather frustrating.

People want me to ship this internationally via First Class. And I'm refusing. I really don't want to risk this thing getting lost OR getting scammed by some idiot because "it hasn't arrived yet". And with PayPal's crap about how international shipments MUST HAVE tracking, well...

If I sell the item and the guy refuses to pay the postage costs, what are my options? The usual "wait two weeks for the dispute to close" and nothing else?

[megasdkirby]

I don't think you are doing anything wrong. You are simply protecting yourself from any possibilitied that might occur.

Just don't ask for additional shipping after the item has finished (listing).

I too would not ship something of high value via First Class mail international. I will only ship a high value item via Priority or insured with some tracking, either the buyer likes it or not.

[ryborg]

Nice item. I sold the exact same game ~5 years ago and it went for a couple hundred, but obviously the economy was in better shape. I wouldn't settle for anything less than $100-150.

The "problem" with vintage computer games like that is you're going to have a lot of international interest. I wouldn't ship a high-value item out of the US without tracking either, so why not use a more expensive shipping method so you can get tracking?

You're allowed to charge more than the domestic-max-value $4 for international items. If you do this, you won't have to worry about a buyer not paying as much, because everything is right there in the item description/item details. Same rules apply; if they win and don't pay, you have to follow the dispute process like normal.

[Cornelius]

Not unreasonable at all. I just got ripped off because I mailed some coupons regular 1st class without tracking. They were cheap and it isn't a big deal, which is why I thought what the heck and just dropped them in the mailbox. Really, when was the last time you heard of a regular letter not being delivered?

Anyway, something worth that much there's no way I wouldn't have tracking on it. And for that much money, I think the buyer would want a better shipping service anyway. Of course, the people emailing you may be those that think they'll get it for $50, in which case the higher cost of Priority doesn't make as much sense.

[Kitsune Sniper]

Not unreasonable at all. I just got ripped off because I mailed some coupons regular 1st class without tracking. They were cheap and it isn't a big deal, which is why I thought what the heck and just dropped them in the mailbox. Really, when was the last time you heard of a regular letter not being delivered?

Anyway, something worth that much there's no way I wouldn't have tracking on it. And for that much money, I think the buyer would want a better shipping service anyway. Of course, the people emailing you may be those that think they'll get it for $50, in which case the higher cost of Priority doesn't make as much sense.

Priority Mail International doesn't have tracking. The only option is EMS.

I'll add a note to the auction that I'll only ship this via EMS internationally (Priority with Signature Confirmation in the US is fine anyhoo.)

[Cornelius]

Priority Mail International doesn't have tracking. The only option is EMS.


I've heard you say that many times, but I don't think it is the case. It IS true for Flat-Rate Envelopes and Small Flat-Rate Boxes, but not regular Priority.


Priority Mail International™

Product Features & Benefits

Priority Mail International is a reliable, cost-effective way to send documents and merchandise to over 190 countries

With the exception of the flat-rate envelope and small flat-rate box, Priority Mail International is a parcel service. Written correspondence having the nature of current and personal correspondence is not permitted in Priority Mail International parcels, but may be sent in the Priority Mail International flat-rate envelope or small flat-rate box.

All domestic Priority Mail packaging, including the flat-rate envelope and boxes, are available for international shipping.
• 6 to 10 average business day delivery to major destinations

• Tracking to major destinations. Note: Tracking is not available for the Priority Mail International flat-rate envelope or small flat-rate box.


And here is an example from a recent sale of mine:
Label/Receipt Number: CQ33 4728 391U S
Class: Priority Mail International Parcels
Service(s): International Parcels
Status: Delivered Abroad

Your item was delivered in GERMANY at 1:01 PM on September 12, 2009.

Track and Confirm

Enter Label/Receipt Number.

Enter Label / Receipt Number.

Detailed Results:

Bullet Delivered Abroad, September 12, 2009, 1:01 pm, GERMANY
Bullet At Foreign Delivery Unit, September 12, 2009, 9:52 am, GERMANY
Bullet Out of Foreign Customs, September 11, 2009, 12:08 pm, GERMANY
Bullet Into Foreign Customs, September 11, 2009, 11:27 am, GERMANY
Bullet Arrived Abroad, September 11, 2009, 11:26 am, GERMANY
Bullet International Dispatch, September 09, 2009, 10:10 pm, ISC CHICAGO IL (USPS)
Bullet Arrival
Bullet Electronic Shipping Info Received, September 07, 2009

Now, they do have that "to major destinations" exception in there, so I wouldn't be sending it that way to Libya or anything, but your typical Europe, Australia, New Zealand, types of places should be fine.

[Kitsune Sniper]

I've heard you say that many times, but I don't think it is the case. It IS true for Flat-Rate Envelopes and Small Flat-Rate Boxes, but not regular Priority.

In my defense, that's how it used to be in the past, but I have no idea if this is still the case... or if PayPal will accept this as proof of delivery. You know how they are.

I'd ask at my post office but... they can't even agree on the rules, so.

Edit:
PayPal says they require "a signature".

What if a buyer does not receive an item I sent? How can I prove that I sent it?
One way to show proof is to use a carrier with online tracking. For transactions involving merchandise worth up to the coverage amount (or the equivalent in the currency of the transaction) or more, keep an online receipt in the form of a signature from the recipient as proof of shipment.

Bleh.

[Cornelius]

Bleh is right with paypal. Every transaction page where it says if it is "OK to ship" says to use a method with signature confirmation. That's totally ridiculous for the typical 10 or 20 dollar domestic sale, and if you read into their policy, it isn't actually required at all (or it wasn't the last time I delved into it).

And looking at it now, having that Germany DC report, I can say that it would NOT cover me according to Paypal's User Agreement, which says the report must have "The recipient’s address, showing at least the city/state or zip code (or international equivalent).", and my DC report only has the country.

Since feedback is a totally worthless basis now, I'd definitely think twice before shipping international without EMS if it is over a certain amount.

bleh indeed

[Porksta]

This is why I don't use ebay. Forum sales or Craigslist is all I use nowadays.

[c0ldb33r]

I rarely ever sell, but I wouldn't ship that game without tracking/DC.

Also, as a purchaser, I wouldn't want to purchase it without tracking. I'd be afraid the seller didn't actually ship it.

[Kitsune Sniper]

Since feedback is a totally worthless basis now, I'd definitely think twice before shipping international without EMS if it is over a certain amount.

bleh indeed

Very much so.

Good lord how I wish I had a stable, salary-paying job instead of having to rely on eBay to survive. >_<

[mezrabad]

Just my 10 bits: You're the seller, you call the terms. You don't want to ship internationally? You don't have to. You tell them how you're going to ship it. It's all up to you. If someone doesn't agree, just tell them you look forward to doing business with them in the future if they're ready to agree to your terms. I think you're being completely reasonable.

[ryborg]

Also, as a purchaser, I wouldn't want to purchase it without tracking. I'd be afraid the seller didn't actually ship it.

Why would you be worried of this? If the seller doesn't ship and the item doesn't arrive, just make three mouse clicks and you'll have your money back in no time, no questions asked.

[Pete Rittwage]

I am the same way- I will only ship something inexpensive via First Class. I've never had a problem with it not showing up, but if they claim it didn't, you lose.

There are a couple other problems you'll run into:

One is that some countries will charge the receiver a VAT or import tax for the declared value when you ship it to them. Many people will ask you to declare it as a "gift" for $10 so they don't have to pay this, but that means you can't insure it for more than that. Don't do that either on a high-value item. It's not your responsibility to help them defraud their government and lose the insurance capability.

The other is that using the eBay shipping calculator is not accurate. I've had the USPS shipping estimate be completely wrong compared to the final price, so be careful. Recently I had one show estimated at $25 and it was $40 when I went to ship it, and this was on the USPS site itself.


Basically, it's your auction and your call.

[Bojay1997]

Why would you be worried of this? If the seller doesn't ship and the item doesn't arrive, just make three mouse clicks and you'll have your money back in no time, no questions asked.

You're kidding, right? Have you ever tried to get a refund from Paypal? It might happen eventually if the seller basically admits they didn't ship and still has money in their account. If the seller really wants to jerk you around, they can stretch it out for weeks and you might still not get a refund.