Super Mario Kart Prototpye for sale

[nensondubois]

http://cgi.ebay.com/SUPER-MARIO-KART-Super-Nintendo-SNES-SAMPLE-DEMO-CART_W0QQitemZ110412078540QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Vi ntage_Video_Games?hash=item19b5129dcc&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

It isn't cheap but it is worth having. I'd buy it but I'm blocked from ebay and don't have the cash.

[badinsults]

I think anyone willing to pay $1800 for a prototype of a released game is probably insane. You'd think that if he is expecting $1800 for this thing that he would put some time into it to demonstrate any differences with the final game to show that it is worth money.

[Balloon Fight]

I think anyone willing to pay $1800 for a prototype of a released game is probably insane. You'd think that if he is expecting $1800 for this thing that he would put some time into it to demonstrate any differences with the final game to show that it is worth money.

Agreed. $1800 for just the board as well and barely any info on it.. guaranteed won't sell.

[HappehLemons]

If I didn't know any better I'd say the auction is run by the the OP...

[mrmark0673]

If I didn't know any better I'd say the auction is run by the the OP...

I would assume that the seller would have plugged the other 10 protos he has on Ebay too...

The seller is a good guy who I've purchased several protos from in the past, many of them for good prices. This is obviously much too high, but you'd have to assume that the best offer option is there for a reason...

[Devhackr]

That's nothing, you see the genesis castlevania he's selling? It's borderline insane.

[BeaglePuss]

I've seen worse. . .

He also just listed another unreleased game for the 32X called Soul Star. I found some information on it, and apparently it was released on Sega CD and planned for the 32X but was canceled due to it's late release. Pretty cool, but not $2,500 cool.

If he were to list an unreleased NES game for $2,500, I would most likely make a run at it honestly.


That's nothing, you see the genesis castlevania he's selling? It's borderline insane.

[Devhackr]

Well, for NES I could understand, even though the prices still get a bit outrageous for my tastes. NES had a cultural impact that hasn't been duplicated. Unless I missed the launch of Xbox cereal, then I'll eat my words. And some xbox cereal.

I'm always a huge fan of prototypes and unreleased games, but even if I had disposable income I still wouldn't pay that much for any of those. There's only a handful of games I could see putting that much together for:

The original version of Resident Evil 2
Crash and the Boys Hockey (My wet dream)
A more developed Sonic Xtreme (Although this one I'd demand a headache discount for having to deal with anything sonic related)
The first version of Resident Evil 4 (Which I actually find much more interesting then the lost re2)
Or a copy of Shenmue from the saturn era.

Then I might pass the 2k mark. Although I wouldn't expect those to even dip that low. =\

[Devhackr]

I hate to double post, but I'm totally feeling what collectors are saying. He has a sonic 3d blast prototype. It's very very likely that version has been dumped. And I wouldn't want to pay that much, because i would just end up dumping it myself.

[Guy Bramsworth]

I think the seller is DreamTR, right?

And for THOSE prices, I think in all fareness, especially since this is a gamble seeing as how the buyer is given no information whatsoever as to exactly what the game is like, screenshots of at least the title and first level should be taken. If he has time to test the game to make sure it works, is that so much to ask? For that high a price I think the buyer deserves at some SOME information as to what they're unloading all that cash on.

[Ed Oscuro]

I think the seller is DreamTR, right?
I'm hoping he wouldn't do that again...but he never gave any indication that he was rethinking that.

Probably the seller (and in DreamTR's case, I'm sure) doesn't want to do work for people who are just searching for information, but if they just did the minimum - just some seconds to load up the start screen and the first level (or whatever shows up) would solve that problem for sure, and then maybe some people would get seriously interested in buying. Nobody needs a complete blow-by-blow description of the games, and this seller obviously has a camera.

Alternatively, maybe it's exactly the same as the retail release and they want more suckers.

For god's sake, how much is it to ask to not be buying the content on faith, sight unseen? This just ends up hurting sales opportunities, which is the saddest part.

Holding my more cynical conjectures in check for now LOL

[badinsults]

I'm hoping he wouldn't do that again...but he never gave any indication that he was rethinking that.

Probably the seller (and in DreamTR's case, I'm sure) doesn't want to do work for people who are just searching for information, but if they just did the minimum - just some seconds to load up the start screen and the first level (or whatever shows up) would solve that problem for sure, and then maybe some people would get seriously interested in buying. Nobody needs a complete blow-by-blow description of the games, and this seller obviously has a camera.

Alternatively, maybe it's exactly the same as the retail release and they want more suckers.

For god's sake, how much is it to ask to not be buying the content on faith, sight unseen? This just ends up hurting sales opportunities, which is the saddest part.

Holding my more cynical conjectures in check for now LOL

I know exactly how that is. I bought two prototypes from Castlevania4Ever, and one of them was identical bit-wise with the retail release. If I had known that, I would never have purchased it. Oh well, it was only like 30 Euros or something.

[Devhackr]

What makes me LOL is other then mario kart, the other prototypes he is selling have shipping fees. $2,499 for castlevania + $4 shipping.

[Guy Bramsworth]

What makes me LOL is other then mario kart, the other prototypes he is selling have shipping fees. $2,499 for castlevania + $4 shipping.

I was thinking that myself! XD For THAT price, and especially considering what you're paying for here, the damn thing should be insured. I find it ridiculous to even ask for shipping to begin with though, considering the buyer is already making a steal here.

Yep, there's a camera, and it doesn't take much effort at ALL to just snap the title and one shot of the first level, anything to assure the buyer and possibly garner more interest. Is any and all information withheld though because there's a small chance the seller knows that there are no differences from the final release? I mean, look at that unreleased 32x game, why do we get shots of that one, yet for the prototypes of the released games we don't get not one single shot?

I think that speaks volumes, and anyone can make the same conclusion I'm hinting at...
I used to have respect for DreamTR, but honestly quite recently that respect has gone down the drain. I completely understand how none of this is our "right" or any of that garbage that people throw in order to get a free dump of it, anybody can follow that logic. But throwing something at such high prices at people with absolutely no information regarding what makes it worth such a high price...that's just wrong, and practically the works of a crook I dare say.

[BeaglePuss]

Invalid item. . .

Looks like the auctions were flagged. Not only that, all his listing are gone. I wonder if the account was suspended?

[Devhackr]

I hate to say this, but I hope so. I can understand certain collectible things being expensive. But those auctions were just insulting. And it was fairly obvious no one was going to put up that much for games that had been released #1, and #2 only a couple were good.

[BeaglePuss]

It looks as though his account has been banned to boot.

Looks like over pricing prototypes has it's downside.LOL

I hate to say this, but I hope so. I can understand certain collectible things being expensive. But those auctions were just insulting. And it was fairly obvious no one was going to put up that much for games that had been released #1, and #2 only a couple were good.

[DreamTR]

I was thinking that myself!

I think that speaks volumes, and anyone can make the same conclusion I'm hinting at...
I used to have respect for DreamTR, but honestly quite recently that respect has gone down the drain. I completely understand how none of this is our "right" or any of that garbage that people throw in order to get a free dump of it, anybody can follow that logic. But throwing something at such high prices at people with absolutely no information regarding what makes it worth such a high price...that's just wrong, and practically the works of a crook I dare say.

Crook? Seriously, I've never ripped anybody off, so you need to step back from this BS talk. ALL of those prices had best offers, there is a GOOD REASON why there are best offers, so people can MAKE A BEST OFFER. You are also talking about higher end titles here, but I have best offers to offset that. My prices on everything else is always mad cheap, but no one says anything about that. With an attitude like yours, I hope I never deal with a buyer like you. Calling me a crook? Wow. Get a clue. I don't have ANY respect for someone who calls me a crook because they have an issue with prices that have BEST offers with as much as I have done for the community and selling games cheaply. Just shocking. We're talking like 2-3 games.

AS far as everything else is here, someone lists the stuff for me, and I don't exactly have the greatest time in the world to send people pictures because (And Ed Oscuro is a PERFECT EXAMPLE here) there are just TONS OF PICTURE COLLECTORS here and people that are NOT serious about buying stuff.

Let's be honest, half of the questions my friend gets on these auctions are people with NO MONEY and nothing SERIOUS about the item with intention to buy. Strike One.

Even if I TAKE pictures of random gameplay, it's not going to mean anything, whether the "chance" something may or may not be different requires TIME and EFFORT and knowing the FINAL version of the game plus COMPARISION and CONTRASTING them.

For the 232938289328th time, I don't even know what differences are in half of my carts, but picture collectors are a dime a dozen.

I'm not sure how an auction can be "insulting" when there is a BEST OFFER. Seriously. That's the biggest BS I have ever heard. Every single person in here saying anything about this would try to sell something for the highest amount they could.

Oh, and just as a FYI, the Sper Mario Kart proto I sold previously HAD different music AND stages. Maybe if people did their research, they would realize this, but everyone in here complaining about this stuff with the exception of BEaglepuss has no money to buy these protos nor has any intention to.

Devhacker: So if a Zelda I released prototype comes out, it's not worth money because it came out? Wow. No one can say they "know" what the value is on these higher end items because unless you have OWNED Mario, Castlevania, or Zelda protos like myself, buyatari, and a few others, you don't have any idea what you can GET for these auctions.

There's also something called EXPOSURE to try to get people to view your other cheap auctions.

I mean, the funniest part is, I am getting called a "crook" by Guy when someone who posted in this very thread DISAPPEARED on people for a long time and ripped people off.

It's amazing the bs you read from people these days that just can't understand things.

And yes, these auctions were reported probably from people right in this very thread I believe, but the regular auctions will be back in 7 days.

It's fine, I will just sell my doubles privately to people that actually collect instead of trying to put some stuff at Best Offers to the public. Shocking though on some of you.

[DKTheArcadeRat]

Crook? Seriously, I've never ripped anybody off, so you need to step back from this BS talk. ALL of those prices had best offers, there is a GOOD REASON why there are best offers, so people can MAKE A BEST OFFER. You are also talking about higher end titles here, sbut I have best offers. My prices on everything else is always mad cheap, but no one says anything about that. With an attitude like yours, I hope I never deal with a buyer like you. Calling me a crook? Wow. Get a clue. I don't have ANY respect for someone who calls me a crook because they have an issue with prices that have BEST offers with as much as I have done for the community and selling games cheaply. Just shocking.

AS far as everything else is here, someone lists the stuff for me, and I don't exactly have the greatest time in the world to send people pictures because (And Ed Oscuro is a PERFECT EXAMPLE here) there are just TONS OF PICTURE COLLECTORS here and people that are NOT serious about buying stuff.

Let's be honest, half of the questions my friend gets on these auctions are people with NO MONEY and nothing SERIOUS about the item with intention to buy. Strike One.

Even if I TAKE pictures of random gameplay, it's not going to mean anything, whether the "chance" something may or may not be different requires TIME and EFFORT and knowing the FINAL version of the game plus COMPARISION and CONTRASTING them.

For the 232938289328th time, I don't even know what differences are in half of my carts, but picture collectors are a dime a dozen.

I'm not sure how an auction can be "insulting" when there is a BEST OFFER. Seriously. That's the biggest BS I have ever heard. Every single person in here saying anything about this would try to sell something for the highest amount they could.

Oh, and just as a FYI, the Sper Mario Kart proto I sold previously HAD different music AND stages. Maybe if people did their research, they would realize this, but everyone in here complaining about this stuff with the exception of BEaglepuss has no money to buy these protos nor has any intention to.

Devhacker: So if a Zelda I released prototype comes out, it's not worth money because it came out? Wow. No one can say they "know" what the value is on these higher end items because unless you have OWNED Mario, Castlevania, or Zelda protos like myself, buyatari, and a few others, you don't have any idea what you can GET for these auctions.

There's also something called EXPOSURE to try to get people to view your other cheap auctions.

I mean, the funniest part is, I am getting called a "crook" by Guy when someone who posted in this very thread DISAPPEARED on people for a long time and ripped people off.

It's amazing the bs you read from people these days that just can't understand things.

And yes, these auctions were reported probably from people right in this very thread I believe, but the regular auctions will be back in 7 days.

It's fine, I will just sell my doubles privately to people that actually collect instead of trying to put some stuff at Best Offers to the public. Shocking though on some of you.

This is the kind of post that earns more respect.

[TRM]

Crook? Seriously, I've never ripped anybody off, so you need to step back from this BS talk. ALL of those prices had best offers, there is a GOOD REASON why there are best offers, so people can MAKE A BEST OFFER. You are also talking about higher end titles here, but I have best offers to offset that. My prices on everything else is always mad cheap, but no one says anything about that. With an attitude like yours, I hope I never deal with a buyer like you. Calling me a crook? Wow. Get a clue. I don't have ANY respect for someone who calls me a crook because they have an issue with prices that have BEST offers with as much as I have done for the community and selling games cheaply. Just shocking. We're talking like 2-3 games.

AS far as everything else is here, someone lists the stuff for me, and I don't exactly have the greatest time in the world to send people pictures because (And Ed Oscuro is a PERFECT EXAMPLE here) there are just TONS OF PICTURE COLLECTORS here and people that are NOT serious about buying stuff.

Let's be honest, half of the questions my friend gets on these auctions are people with NO MONEY and nothing SERIOUS about the item with intention to buy. Strike One.

Even if I TAKE pictures of random gameplay, it's not going to mean anything, whether the "chance" something may or may not be different requires TIME and EFFORT and knowing the FINAL version of the game plus COMPARISION and CONTRASTING them.

For the 232938289328th time, I don't even know what differences are in half of my carts, but picture collectors are a dime a dozen.

I'm not sure how an auction can be "insulting" when there is a BEST OFFER. Seriously. That's the biggest BS I have ever heard. Every single person in here saying anything about this would try to sell something for the highest amount they could.

Oh, and just as a FYI, the Sper Mario Kart proto I sold previously HAD different music AND stages. Maybe if people did their research, they would realize this, but everyone in here complaining about this stuff with the exception of BEaglepuss has no money to buy these protos nor has any intention to.

Devhacker: So if a Zelda I released prototype comes out, it's not worth money because it came out? Wow. No one can say they "know" what the value is on these higher end items because unless you have OWNED Mario, Castlevania, or Zelda protos like myself, buyatari, and a few others, you don't have any idea what you can GET for these auctions.

There's also something called EXPOSURE to try to get people to view your other cheap auctions.

I mean, the funniest part is, I am getting called a "crook" by Guy when someone who posted in this very thread DISAPPEARED on people for a long time and ripped people off.

It's amazing the bs you read from people these days that just can't understand things.

And yes, these auctions were reported probably from people right in this very thread I believe, but the regular auctions will be back in 7 days.

It's fine, I will just sell my doubles privately to people that actually collect instead of trying to put some stuff at Best Offers to the public. Shocking though on some of you.

Yup, you sum up my thoughts exactly on the matter, Dreamtr. Now for some of my own thoughts and comments.

First of all, Dreamtr is in no sense a crook, it seems like the poor guy takes so much crap just because he has tons of prototypes and other rare collectibles. I remember pranking the dude once back in high school, but realized quickly that he was a fair seller, and a cool guy to boot, who deserved nothing of this kind. Hell, Dreamtr has done a lot for the community, and as he says himself, no one pays attention to the good and only bitch about his not dumping this or that game, taking pictures, or pricing auctions at expensive prices, etc.

If I was selling these higher end titles, I would probably do the same thing...slap the game on eBay with a high buy it now and a best offer button. Maybe a sucker will bite and pay the buy it now, if not, maybe you receive a best offer that you like. This method has a lot less risks than listing purely as an auction and having it end lower than you want to sell. I know I have a few articles floating about (not just games either) which I know have *some* value, but am not sure of the exact value. One of my items I would sell, if I received an offer for say, $500, but if I sold it on auction and it ended at $50, then I would rather just keep the item...makes sense what Dreamtr is doing, especially when these items really have little precidence set in value.

I agree that those who reported the auction are probably some of the same people bitching here, and that's just a shitty thing to do. If you want the games, save up some money and buy them. Get a job, do something. If it is not worth it to you, then don't buy them, but don't bitch either. Maybe you want the games but are only willing to pay $200 a pop...on the other hand, maybe Dreamtr would rather have the game then the measly $200, so it works both ways. Sheesh.

As for pictures of the games in action and more information, I of course like more information, good descriptions, etc. However, the busier I become, the more I realize how valuable time is. I certainly don't have time to compare and contrast two versions of a game anymore, and if I don't, I am sure that Dream don't either. And the truth of the matter is, many of these people are just picture collectors, wanting pics of all the cool stuff. Been there, done that, I know how it is.

[Guy Bramsworth]

No, you're going off the point entirely. It doesn't matter if you think that a majority of people that would care to see pictures wouldn't buy it to begin with, the fact still remains it's bad business to just throw something out there for insane amounts of money and not take time to at least show simple shots. I'm not here ranting on as someone who would be interested in buying these if I had more info, I'm only telling you that I think your ethics here are wrong.

No one is asking you to play the games thoroughly to check for differences, you need to get that image out of your head. It just would be nice to at least see the very beginning i.e intro and first stage, at least some sort of backing as to what the cart contains, instead of being told it's a prototype, but then not getting to hear one more bit of info other than that. You did it for Soulstar, why is it everything else can't get the same? The released games where you could possibly be paying for something no different from the final, why do THOSE not get a single simple shot, yet the one game that's assured to be something(unreleased) gets pictures? There is no comparing or contrasting, none of that, just showing a simple shot. You clearly have the time to do that. Very very odd.

I'm not asking someone who clearly has tons of these things to play each and every single one and check every detail, wouldn't that be nuts and very time consuming? But when you're going to sell them with such high opening prices, at least IMO, and especially given the pretense that the majority of people would buy these under(early revisions of games specifically, released ones, not unreleased), I see it as only fair. You obviously have a camera, you sure as hell can take the time out to test the cart only once you are about to sell it(sure as hell couldn't take the time during the three months that TJ&E2 proto was being donated for to check at least ONCE, not until all the money was collected and then it'd be sent straight to you, could you?), is it so much to ask that the buyer gets some sort of clue as to what they're buying?

Best offers or not, I doubt anything would go for way less than already listed, it will still be a high price in any case, surely. The whole point here is that as someone selling items these sort of items, you're just being unfair to the buyer who puts their trust in you. The Mario Kart you mentioned from earlier I don't think anyone here has forgotten. What about it though? Completely irrelevant to this sale of this cart, after all it's not the same item.

Please try to look past that no one here cares to waste their money on chances with prototypes. What this is is an issue of how you're going about selling these things at such absurd prices, offers or not. And this is not an issue of you being a collector that has tons of rare items. That's just a stupid defense. No one should think that highly of themselves.

[Ed Oscuro]

AS far as everything else is here, someone lists the stuff for me, and I don't exactly have the greatest time in the world to send people pictures because (And Ed Oscuro is a PERFECT EXAMPLE here) there are just TONS OF PICTURE COLLECTORS here and people that are NOT serious about buying stuff.
DreamTR, I'm going to ask you to not repeat libelous claims without being able to back them up.

Here's a short review of the facts. Feel free to add your perspective if you think it's lacking:

The item in question was a Dracula X cartridge in prerelease format. It could be a prototype, a review copy, or something else entirely. I don't know more because DreamTR refused to tell me!

I was keeping the $1000 asking price in reserve. Keeping that sort of cash lying around my bank account is not convenient, then or now. I don't do $1000 deposits for game rentals either.

I was interested because there is an old issue of EGM or something with an article about the PC-Engine Dracula X CD-ROM^2 possibly getting a straight port to SNES, with the candle room as a putative example. Maybe they were being truthful, and maybe they were being lazy or reusing a screenshot right from the original import game. I don't know, but as a big collector of games in the series I really wanted to buy it if it was. Even now it still seems to call out to me.

I mentioned something like this to DreamTR and asked if it was that version. I recall that he said it wasn't worth his time to pull out the game just to check, after I asked. I recall asking - I may be mistaken, so I can't get high and mighty about this - to see if he could just take a look and he refused. So DreamTR's probably inattentive if he thought I was looking for photos. I would be able to say with certainty if I kept my old messages all this time.

I don't know what sort of unscrupulous people DreamTR has run afoul of, but you simply can't expect that sort of high (also completely arbitrary) price when you don't cover the most basic facts about what's on sale. Is it a DeLorean? Oh, it's actually a 1982 Ford Escort, but hey, obviously it's up to the buyer to make that giant leap of faith! I'm not saying that worse things don't happen at auctions, but at least people can see what they're getting, and the seller and appraiser aren't the same person.

At this time (somewhere in the years 2002-2004) I had made some hilariously moronic purchases, like spending $500 on a shit old cocktail cabinet game that I actually detest, but occasionally I had flashes of common sense - and a purchase price of $1000 tends to clarify the stakes.

I don't dispute that DreamTR has a right to refuse inquiries for information (although I stress that I was doing so with a view towards a purchase IF it was the item I wanted and NOT

"It's too hard to pull the games out of storage."
For $1000? Seriously? This wasn't like I walked into Game Galaxy and demanded somebody kiss my belly button.

"You're just going to run off with information and leak it all over, and I've thrown my back out!"
Even if there are people out there who buy sealed barrels of magic goodness sight unseen, interest is actually increased when it's known what's inside (assuming what you have isn't simply a collection of junk, self-appraised as worthier than the Golden Fleece, the Philosopher's Stone, and the Spear of Destiny all thrown into the Holy Grail).

And if you think that getting some very basic information out about what you have is going to harm the price of your items, you are either naive and sorely misinformed, or attempting in bad faith to fix and exploit the naivete of inexperienced buyers (such as I was myself at the time). This is an entirely separate argument from the "plz dump teh ROMz" one: markets can't and won't function AT ALL in the complete absence of information. There has to be information to make sales.

Also, assuming (wrongly) that I was simply a "photo collector," my having (in a worst-case scenario) some basic game description and a couple lousy webcam or scanned polaroid photos is not exactly going to make me an amazing online reputation, nor any money; in fact it would be free advertising (especially since these magical things called "MSPaint" and "watermarks" allow any seller a measure of control over who gets ultimate credit).

The idea that I'm just a photo collector is hilarious to anybody who has even a passing knowledge of the extent and obscure nature of my game collection. I do like to share my own photos and scans (painstakingly taken from now on with a $700 camera, $350 prime lens, and a still-boxed new Canon 8800f scanner which in three months have already given me markedly more enjoyment than this debacle). However, I wouldn't inconvenience somebody, nor intentionally provoke bouts of raging psychosis just for the sake of very limited street cred on sites where people are ultimately most interested with being able to play games.

The final point may well be this:

I pumped 682,300 points into Game Galaxy in the Save The Arcades Promotion (http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=134958&page=2), not expecting any thanks, and obviously not holding a grudge. I was silly enough to think that attempting to help

But it's ironic, isn't it. Scoreboard time:

(tl;dr version for those who don't have time to read the above)

Ed Oscuro:
-Asked most inconveniently and audaciously for information on a prototype he was interested in buying

DreamTR:
-Happily let a prospective buyer save up $1000 and then
-Refused to do the minimum of work to tie up the sale
-Throws insane eTantrums when anybody questions his demonstrably inept "business practices"
-Questions the motives of prospective buyers without any logical reason and then spews libelous claims freely around the 'net, again without any recourse to (or interest in) the hard facts
-Likely is attempting to exploit ignorance in order to make game sales (not that I have any problem with listing items at a hilariously inflated prices and hoping for a dumb bidder to snap it up; after all, that's how I got most of my game collection)

[The Sage of Sega]

I'm just going to put my worthless two cents in here. DreamTR has some great items, and I don't think he deserves any flak AT ALL for the prices he's setting. Has he ripped anyone off? Has he recieved a large sum of money and failed to deliver on the goods? Because if he has, that is the definition of a crook, and from what I can see nothing of the sort has transpired. Having hard-to-find items and setting appropriate collector's prices WITH THE OPTION to offer a lower amount seems pretty damn fine to me. Hell, I don't have the desire to ever pay that sort of money for an item like that, but just because I can't afford to obtain prototypes doesn't mean I'm going to harp on the people who have them and choose to sell them. Utter bullcrap. More detailed descriptions would help him make quicker sales, but on the same token, he has the CHOICE to list items however he chooses, as long as the content of the description is honest.

DreamTR, the only thing I can suggest is that on your next sale, you consider purchasing some equipment to dump cartridge ROMs for whichever system you have the most protos for. I'm sure collectors would appreciate seeing a checksum comparison. I'm not saying you release the proto's ROM, just that you compare filesizes or show induvidual sections where the proto may differ from the commercial-release ROM. Also, if you choose to release more photographs of your items, you can easily place a header in the JPEG along with a watermark to identify the photos as yours. This ensures you receive the credit for the photographs of your items (keep in mind guys, these are HIS items and HIS photos. If he's not releasing them to your liking, it's likely because he has had way too many tire-kickers.) These are only suggestions, but regardless, I hope you enjoy success in selling these rare items, and that hopefully I can afford to one day be amongst your customers.

Seriously guys, chill the hell out.

[DreamTR]

Here's the problem here. People going off on tangents with incorrect information.

Guy: I'm thinking highly of myself? I don't think you understand how difficult it is to GET to these prototypes in my game room. I have 1,200 cartridge ones in various boxes and bins. They aren't labeled or in alphabetical order or anything, so they take some digging to get to. You also fail to realize if someone is SERIOUS, they can ASK me for pictures on the listing. Nothing wrong with that. After speaking to the person a few times, I will know if they are a serious prospective buyer. You have done nothing but complain and call me a "crook" when you have no valid reason to do so. If you don't like the way I do business, so be it, but you have NEVER been in my position and had to deal with the stuff I had collecting these protos. I am not bending over backwards so people can get screens unless they are serious. Many proto collectors feel the same way because of the way people are, and after seeing this thread, it's magnified. I don't know how much more clear I can be in those listings. If people want more info, they can ASK but I'm not adding a ton of screens for lookyloos (sp). Screen(s) show the cart is REAL, so at least you know what you are dealing with from that perspective. Anything else can be dealt with via a simple eBay message. What about all my disk protos I practically gave away for pennies on the dollar last year and had random bundles with crazy stuff given away? Oh wait, you'd rather complain about something that I did not even sell with a best offer. Nice. And also, a screenshot for an unreleased game is MY choice. Again, if people want to see screens and serious of the others, THEY COULD ASK instead of COMPLAIN as long as they are SERIOUS bidders.

The point is, you basically called me crook because you didn't like the fact I didn't take a picture on one or two random auctions and have some stupid stuff stemming from third party information on a site that DRX was trying to get donations from. Your fault for not asking me directly, which is the case with most people. Sometimes there is NOT a lot of money for me to dig something out. I would rather keep it than deal with the hassle.

Oh, and Mario Kart IS the same thing here. How many 1st party Mario Karts are there running around? I've sold over 3,000 prototypes and people have ALWAYS known how I work, sometimes stuff is golden, sometimes it's closer to final. I can't do much else about that, I pass on the doubles as quick as I can, but the fact remains you directly insulted me for no reason when I have NEVER ripped anyone off.

Ed Oscuro: Talk about bringing up things that have nothing to do with the facts at hand....what does Game Galaxy have to do with ANY of this? Nothing.

ETantrums? I must have hit a nerve. I did not even MENTION the Dracula X thing, but let me refresh:

You asked me about said game, I did not want to dig it out. I said $1000 was what it would take. I DID dig it out and because I could not automatically tell if it was different, you passed on it, which is why I did not want to dig it out in the first place because I could not compare/contrast the thing from final/beta, so what was the point? $1000 to you was a lot of money, and you emphasize that here, but I sold the game for $1000 a few weeks later, so it must NOT have been that much to others because, well, it's a Castlevania proto, and those games are worth money, so that argument of yours is out.

No one is being "libelous" to you. You wasted my time. No one had a tantrum, you are the one having a tantrum about this now.

The funny part about this whole thing is again, when I sold the 3,000 or so disc protos with RANDOM stuff including unreleased games pennies on the dollar, no one says a WORD about that, but put 2-3 games that you guys are not even SERIOUS ABOUT PURCHASING, and you feel the need to complain about me not having a pic or so when these had best offers to begin with?

I've never seen such childish behavior in my life.

I don't sell a LOT of cart protos, and when I HAVE sold the high end ones, I put Best Offers and that's about it. Those are there for REASONS. How thickheaded must people be to not understand that? 98% of my stuff I've sold is WAY below the actual value, countless trade shows, disc protos, you name it. Anyone that deals with me knows this, but consider the sources here, have you two guys really bought much from me at all to justify these statements? Nope.

I'm amazed, it's always something with me and the stuff I have:
I don't dump it, the high stuff is "high" to some people but since most of the games no one has really sold that I try and get best offers on, I'm yelled at like crazy. I have seen sellers here sell protos at WAY higher prices and you guys don't yell at them, and they don't even have best offers! The hypocrisy is unnerving here, but what do I expect? I'm sure the actual proto count of the people complaining may say something about whether or not this stuff is actually a valid interest or really is just complaining to complain.
Now who is being "libelous?"

[Guy Bramsworth]

My point still remains. You're putting these up for auctions, they're being labeled as prototypes, most people who would buy this expect prototype to mean an early revision of the game. What if they get the game and find out it's the exact same thing as the final? It won't be a prototype anymore, at least not under the assumed pretense they bought it. That would make the auction false advertising.

All the stuff you've sold before for cheap have no purpose in the discussion, why do you need this other stuff boughten up for your defense? We're discussing specifically the items you were selling recently on auction at those really high prices. Don't forget making an offer is an OPTION, not what everyone will opt for. I'm all for getting back what I spent for something, or getting the items worth, but nowhere in your auctions besides the one unreleased game is it stated anywhere that it really is worth the asking price.

So I am just questioning the ethics in that only. I wish all this other irrelevent stuff would not be mentioned, I'd much prefer a simple answer as to why it's so hard to show a simple shot when you clearly can take the time to do that for at least one game there. I think anyone woud like to see a shot of something of this worth actually running too, just for even more assurance.

I had no idea trying to satisfy the customer was this wrong a thing to ask of the buyer. You've got people potentially giving you tons of money they may have spent hours woking for, there is no reason you can't get out the item that could be sold and at least show some proof for the buyer, or for gods sake, make sure you still even have the thing.

There is absolutely no case of "you didn't ask me" here. This is cold hard cash going straight to you, and you can't take the time out to do anything for the buyer other than say "ya I'll take the money for it but that's it, I don't have time to deal with you, sorry". Plain unfair.

Anyway that's enough of that. You obviously aren't going to change, but I'd like my argument to at least be heard by others.

[DreamTR]

My point still remains. You're putting these up for auctions, they're being labeled as prototypes, most people who would buy this expect prototype to mean an early revision of the game. What if they get the game and find out it's the exact same thing as the final? It won't be a prototype anymore, at least not under the assumed pretense they bought it. That would make the auction false advertising.

All the stuff you've sold before for cheap have no purpose in the discussion, why do you need this other stuff boughten up for your defense? We're discussing specifically the items you were selling recently on auction at those really high prices. Don't forget making an offer is an OPTION, not what everyone will opt for. I'm all for getting back what I spent for something, or getting the items worth, but nowhere in your auctions besides the one unreleased game is it stated anywhere that it really is worth the asking price.

So I am just questioning the ethics in that only. I wish all this other irrelevent stuff would not be mentioned, I'd much prefer a simple answer as to why it's so hard to show a simple shot when you clearly can take the time to do that for at least one game there. I think anyone woud like to see a shot of something of this worth actually running too, just for even more assurance.

I had no idea trying to satisfy the customer was this wrong a thing to ask of the buyer. You've got people potentially giving you tons of money they may have spent hours woking for, there is no reason you can't get out the item that could be sold and at least show some proof for the buyer, or for gods sake, make sure you still even have the thing.

There is absolutely no case of "you didn't ask me" here. This is cold hard cash going straight to you, and you can't take the time out to do anything for the buyer other than say "ya I'll take the money for it but that's it, I don't have time to deal with you, sorry". Plain unfair.

If they get something exactly as the final, what am I supposed to do, run checksums and compare and contrast? YOu aren't making sense here, and this "hard earned money" stuff, you think I got all these games for free? Do you know how many times you have to BUY lots from people SIGHT UNSEEN just to get them to TALK to you or get ANYTHING out of them? (My sources)

Also, one big CLEAR omission that you forget to mention. I CLEARLY state in some of these that I have NO IDEA IF THE GAME IS THE SAME AS THE RELEASED VERSION. Not sure how much more crystal I can be because I am being honest and do not know. Sometimes people get crazy lucky with it more times than no. Ask Drx.

Why did I bring up the selling of all the other stuff cheap? Over the years it's pretty well known I've had a LOT of stuff that turned out to be different that I have sold over the years, so yes, that plays an integral role in this.

Also, consider nothing actually sold that I listed up (the high end stuff) , but Castlevania is about to be sold and I didn't need a screen for that one.

You keep talking about this "tons" of money stuff, and yes, some of these are serious purchases but you really think one title screen and one in game screenshot will do it? THat doesn't mean jack. You need either video running and the person buying needs knowledge of the gameplay of the final, or as I like, seeing the PCB of the game is the main thing so I know it's real, or label verifying so I know as well. A lot of this stuff you are mentioning has NEVER been a problem when I have sold stuff because they know what they are getting from me, but you keep emphasizing this "screenshot" thing on auction and serious buyers can email me and ask about it, so again, your calling me a "crook" and complaints are as unwarranted as they were from when you initially started this.

[Ed Oscuro]

Ha ha! I forgot that tasty tidbit! Yeah, you WERE audacious enough to demand what I understood to be a $1000 deposit with no guarantees before you even pulled the goddamned thing out. Holy hell. You do have a good memory though, credit for that, and I appreciate your clearing the record on this matter.

I'll briefly note that you've conceded the point on libel - you AREN'T repeating the potentially damaging (well, if anybody were silly enough to take it seriously) and certainly unjustified claim that I'm just an unprincipled picture hunter who gives no thought to the well-being of others, and one which I'll bring right to the mods if I see you scrawl it down again. I'd rather not see that mess again, thanks.

Back to the legendary $1000 deposit - okay, if the game sold sight unseen for the arbitrary price of $1000 to somebody thinking it was just retail code, and hoping it was something else, can we imagine what the hell it would've turned into if it was the special version I had discussed? You don't need to be a game theorist to understand that either that buyer or you were a sucker in that deal - both of you were taking a needless risk. I would gladly have spread the word if I had known you were selling something of interest to the community (as understandably you weren't willing to wait on me to scrounge up more money to grab an item), but I can't well generate even personal interest with a pitch like "there is some guy who says that he has something as valuable as 'Golden Fleece, the Philosopher's Stone, and the Spear of Destiny all thrown into the Holy Grail' but I don't know what it is, really, but you should buy it regardless."

Ultimately, though, what matters is that you offered it without being able to sell it properly, and that fact, and the 'tude you exude, is solely your doing.

I commend you for finally starting to do a seller's due diligence with respect to the current auctions; at least now people can start to decide whether items are worth what they wished, and you aren't offering items which you can't, for whatever reasons, sell properly and which you're shorting yourself on prospective value. I hope you're finding that doing things at a manageable pace works much better than inconveniencing and blaming your prospective buyers for being unimpressed with your setting up a unmanageable situation and ultimately making irrational demands as if you were the mafia boss demanding a buy-in to a high-stakes underworld poker game, and running things with about as much transparency.

[TRM]

My point still remains. You're putting these up for auctions, they're being labeled as prototypes, most people who would buy this expect prototype to mean an early revision of the game. What if they get the game and find out it's the exact same thing as the final? It won't be a prototype anymore, at least not under the assumed pretense they bought it. That would make the auction false advertising.


On the contrary, my friend.

Without getting into the nit picky debate of this is a prototype, this is a demo, this is a game in alpha stage, this is a review copy of a game, etc, I think most collectors are pretty straight forward on using the term prototype as sort of an umbrella term, and as such, are aware of what it means. I've bought prototypes which were (as far as I can tell) the same as the released version. Heck, I remember even buying a prototype at one point of a NES game that was ALMOST the same as the released version, though it had maybe one or two small changes, that I would never have noticed...only someone making a dump, or set up with two NES systems side by side would see the differences, as they were this small...but it was on a prototype board, long nes board, I think the fact that it was a prototype was pretty obvious.

Prototype status has nothing to due with whether the game has changes or not, sorry to say...

[ianoid]

Seriously, a lot of typing here, and most of it is time wasted.

If you think a price is too high, great. Price flaming is easy to do. I just don't see why you guys would price flame a respected member of the classic gaming community? Do you like to see your stuff flamed? Probably not.

Truly, you guys aren't much in the way of high end collectors are you? If you want to prove you are, you can make claims about the thousands you've spent on this or that, but that's not my point. There are very few resources for the hardest of the hardcore, and DreamTR has proven to be a force to be reckoned with for many years. If you are a super duper hardcore Castlevania collector, you have probably had every Castlevania item for the last 4 years, and adding something to your collection is a rare opportunity. Perhaps you've saved up for a few years for just this opportunity. Who you gonna call when you want something special, for that special someone you call crazy spending you?

The items that were listed here as overpriced are the craziest of crazy. You don't see Army Men 2 for Gameboy at $500. You see Mario Kart, Castlevania, and an unreleased 32x cart version of a SegaCD disc game. If you guys don't see why those are priced the way they are with offers enabled, then you have a very limited understanding of this market. And most of you do clearly have a limited understanding of the market.

Let me continue my 'in defense of' rant. The sellers that are hoping for a lotto ticket- or that aren't serious about selling, or that over value their item- are the ones who just make a minimum bid at a very high price. With the Make Offer feature enabled, you never know if the seller will accept half or less of what you offer. You never know what they will accept. I like those high priced items, but I wouldn't pay half of what he has those listed for, so I don't even bother making an offer. Do I think that they are worth half of what he listed them for? Definitely, and I think they could be worth the full price to the motivated buyer. But that doesn't mean that I'm going to get all uppity about it and flame the seller. I just have my money committed elsewhere, or those items aren't a priority for me.

Let me also point out something to the those who live in the US, which is probably all of you. The dollar is incredibly weak. It's a buyer's market out there, and the European collectors know it. Buying in USD is like a 33% discount outright. You have to price stuff that is unique on the high end in consideration of the buyers spending Euros. If you price for us American shlumps, you are giving deals to those with strong currencies, which is just about everyone except for us US citizens.

High end collectors all have their nemesis, and big spenders know that their nemesis could sweep in at any time and grab that unique item before they get the chance. And that is what the high end is all about- unique items. These auctions are for items that may be one of a kind or two of a kind or three of a kind. Very few folks have the opportunity to upgrade their collection with them. Unfortunately, that comes at a price. And setting a top end winner takes all price is a bit hopeful, but that's what eBay is all about- hoping to get the best price you can for your stuff.

As far as posting pictures, yes it would be good to have more information. Yes these are not optimal auction listing. But on the other hand, you can see that the seller probably would be happy to sell to someone who was aware of him, or trusted him enough to know that he's a respectable seller. I would be that if someone pays him $1k for something, he will test it before he mails it and can be relied on if there are problems. It may not be the way that I do my auctions, or you guys do, but the reality is that he's not in a hurry to get them out the door. I didn't see Beta fire sale anywhere.

Let me also point out that dumping may be unattractive to those people interested in a unique item. When something is undumped, it's less likely to be distributed, known, or faked in the future. I actually like stuff to be dumped, since I'm not really capable of doing it myself, but that's not the norm, I suspect.

This isn't the good old days of newsgroup auctions or dumpster diving for development kit. This is a global marketplace. And a wise seller will know his market. DreamTR has an incredible amount of experience selling this stuff. Perhaps you will defer to him one day when you have something unique to sell, and you don't have the connections or knowledge to appropriately turn it around. Or perhaps you will have saved up a few grand to spend on that really special item that would be the cherry on top of your collection. Why would you guys make a move towards ostracizing him?

[BeaglePuss]

Wow, this got out of hand. My post will be far briefer than most others:

- Dream can charge whatever he wants for prototypes. They are his, and if that's his prerogative so be it. I don't always agree with his prices, but to flag the listings seems uncalled for.

- The Castlevania prototype was listed at $2,500 without the best offer option.

These threads pop up more than they should. Dream has rare items, he charges what appears to be "too much," people appear jealous, Dream throws a shit-fit and tells all he's done for the community.

Rinse, Cycle, Repeat.

[portnoyd]

These threads pop up more than they should. Dream has rare items, he charges what appears to be "too much," people appear jealous, Dream throws a shit-fit and tells all he's done for the community.

It's a monthly thing. You'd think by now DTR would have a stock response he just cut and pastes and is done with it. I will admit I like seeing his feathers get ruffed, but I'm just a dick like that.

DTR is a smart businessman. He's probably the smartest seller the collecting community has seen. He doesn't give anything in a deal he doesn't need to. He's pretty tenacious like that. He essentially created the pay to dump market on his own and it's almost retarded on how much loot he banks on that alone.

If you fill with generic rage when you see what he does, then

1. You don't understand what's going on. (See what ianoid talked about concerning the USD)
2. He's just playing the game better than you and you feel dumb because of it.
3. You are feeling holier-than-thou compared to him.

[badinsults]

I guess when it all comes down to it, you cannot blame the seller for trying to exploit the ignorant who will purchase these things at high prices.

Hell, my experiences with buying have taught me to always require pictures and descriptions on the condition of anything I buy, because one time I bought a lot of games with damaged labels (because I didn't ask for a picture, as I assumed that the seller would be good enough to let me know of any damage). I've been burned on a prototype purchase that was identical to the final version, though it was only 30 Euros, so, c'est la vie.

To me, the prototype is only as valuable as the data that is on it, but I know that opinion is not universal. And I still think you would have to be crazy to pay $1800 for a prototype of Super Mario Kart, especially if you do not know that it is not the final version. Personally, I wouldn't pay more than $300-$400 for it, though I know there are likely people who would outbid me on that. If I did buy it for that, I would have no problems with dumping the game and releasing it after I dissected it and compared it with the final release, much like van_halen did with his, as that is the kind of collector I am. But since I am not in the position to buy it at the moment, I'll sit down and shut up for the rest of the thread (seriously, does this kind of thread need to happen every month?).

[Vectorman0]

I swear to god, I am going to have to shut down this whole sub-forum if you people can't control yourselves. I've told people here multiple times to keep their mouths shut if they have nothing nice to say. This time I am going to draft a rule sheet and start issuing bans. Seriously. Until then, let's all practice by keeping personal matters private, using Private Messages.


This is post is aimed at no one in particular, yet everyone at the same time.