Sony ditches UMD conversion plans for PSP Go

[lagartija_nick]

I thought Sony dowloads were only tied to the psn account and not the hardware?

I know Microsoft ties everything to the hardware, and from what I have heard when your systems breaks down, replacing your download content is a nightmare.

It is kinda convenient in a way that you can delete a game you bought and re-download it anytime. You bought its yours weather you delete it or not. Space ceases to be an issue.

However I am skeptical. This is truly the first generation of downloadable content. What happens when the next gen of systems come out?

Are we entitled to everything we downloaded previously on the new systems?
Are downloads only good for one generation of a system?

[Icarus Moonsight]

Targeting demographics is good marketing, but relying solely on a portion of total available customers is very reminiscent of SCD/32X, only the inverse for the Go applies. Instead of nearly all your potential customers already being Genesis owners, they are solely focused on selling to people interested in a PSP that do not already have one of the past units and/or an investment in a UMD library. And all this after about 4 years into the cycle? The only way they will come out of this with anything of value is if they planned to not care as much about the systems success and are actually testing delivery method for future products. I'm sure they'd love to hit a homerun from a bunt, but I just don't see it.

[Ed Oscuro]

Targeting demographics is good marketing, but relying solely on a portion of total available customers is very reminiscent of SCD/32X, only the inverse for the Go applies.
Right, but the only reason this really could be said to apply is branding.

Of course, they will scare potential PS3 owners by dropping the PSP branding entirely, but even so folks who felt assured in years past by claims the format would be kept going "forever," so it seems to me that they either need to make the Go better at something aside from games (which brings to mind the infamous Taco) or...well, gee, I can't think of anything.

Bet this will do sadly in places without lots of internet access, that or they'll hit a lawsuit from people who bought it not knowing this. Ahh, the growing pains of digital distribution.

[kupomogli]

not so fast. that is not gamestop's bundle. that is sony's bundle that it let gamestop sell. gamestop has nothing to do with this (in fact it probably paid sony $$ to make sure walmart etc dont get the same bundle).

btw a 2gb pro duo card is >$20.

Oh okay. Why does Sony release bundles which make its more expensive version of the same system even less appealing?

[BHvrd]

This topic can be boiled down to:

"Sony. Stick with the UMD transfer program you dumb fucks"

There, now everyone is happy. :D

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

I thought Sony dowloads were only tied to the psn account and not the hardware?

PSN purchases are tied to a PSN account AND can be used on up to 5 "activated" consoles. (Console activation on/off can be done right off the XMB of the PSP or PS3.)

Purchases can be deleted and re-downloaded at will.

You can "activate" up to 5 PS3s and 5 PSPs per unique PSN account. (And there is no restriction on having multiple active PSN accounts on PS3 consoles ... so if your brother/sister/mother/father/son/daughter/spouse/friend have an active PSN account that they'd like to add to your PS3 console and add that console to their "active" list they can download any purchases they've made for use on that console, even if they're not "logged in" to that profile.)

So, for PSN software you get 5 copies per purchase.

In the case of higher-tier titles with online play like Socom or Warhawk you can only be "logged in" for online usage of that title on one of those 5 consoles at a time.

[The 1 2 P]

This topic can be boiled down to:

"Sony. Stick with the UMD transfer program you dumb fucks"

There, now everyone is happy. :D

Not until they announce the next Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiidge Racerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

[calgon]

Forgive my stupidity, but do you NEED to own a ps3 to purchase psone games to play on the PSP?

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Forgive my stupidity, but do you NEED to own a ps3 to purchase psone games to play on the PSP?

No. Not at all.

You can either download them from the PSN store front on the PSP via WiFi, OR you can use the PSP Media Go software to buy them on PC (much faster download times) and then transfer them over to the PSP via USB cable.

[Flack]

At least the Wii was a Gamecube 1.5; the PSP Go is like a PSP 1.0000001. Actually, the PSP Go is actually a step backwards! Correct me if I'm wrong (and I may be forgetting one), but is this the first time in history that a console has been tweaked and re-released in a form that didn't play the original games? Am I missing something here? Wouldn't this be like if the Atari 2600 Jr. (or NES top loader, or Genesis model 2, etc.) didn't play the original carts? Who the fuck approved this?

When someone uses this headline a year from now, I want credit for it: PSP GOne

[calgon]

At least the Wii was a Gamecube 1.5; the PSP Go is like a PSP 1.0000001. Actually, the PSP Go is actually a step backwards! Correct me if I'm wrong (and I may be forgetting one), but is this the first time in history that a console has been tweaked and re-released in a form that didn't play the original games? Am I missing something here? Wouldn't this be like if the Atari 2600 Jr. (or NES top loader, or Genesis model 2, etc.) didn't play the original carts? Who the fuck approved this?

When someone uses this headline a year from now, I want credit for it: PSP GOne

Not sure if it will flop or not, but I'm getting one so I can AVOID lugging aound games. The download service is very appealing. I can see your point though.

[Kid Ice]

At least the Wii was a Gamecube 1.5; the PSP Go is like a PSP 1.0000001. Actually, the PSP Go is actually a step backwards! Correct me if I'm wrong (and I may be forgetting one), but is this the first time in history that a console has been tweaked and re-released in a form that didn't play the original games? Am I missing something here? Wouldn't this be like if the Atari 2600 Jr. (or NES top loader, or Genesis model 2, etc.) didn't play the original carts? Who the fuck approved this?

When someone uses this headline a year from now, I want credit for it: PSP GOne

I just sold my 1001 model and am considering getting this. There were two things on the original PSP I could not stand. One was carrying around those ridiculous UMDs which was one of the worst formats I've ever seen on any system. The other was the long loading times from said discs.

Both issues eliminated.

I also thought the thing was simply too big (although my eyes appreciated it). And to add a fourth item, I thought the UMDs were overpriced in the early going.

I have to withhold judgment until I get my hands on one, but it appears to be an improvement to me. One of the reviewers said that it's a little hard to hold which could kill it for me.

As far as it not playing the original games, a fair number of worthwhile games are already in the PSP store. Using your analogy, it would be as if Space Invaders, Adventure and Kaboom are already available for purchase....Demon Attack, Spiderman, and Yars Revenge might be a few months....and you may have to make due without Frankensteins Monster, Strawberry Shortcake, and Chuck Norris Superkicks.

[Press_Start]

Seems like everyone's ignoring the elephant in the room....Gamestop. Sure, there's Sony's game cards but the UMD-less feature strips away GS's biggest asset...used games. To the higher-ups, it's potential trouble. Trouble to their profit margins and trouble to their bottom line. They probably sent out memos how to (legally) hinder the Go's sales at their stores. Wouldn't surprise me if they started hacking prices for regular PSP and stocks to leverage against.

That's the problem with the Go, so expensive for so little incentive. The money, time, and resources poured would be better off invested into PSP2 development with UMD-less feature tacked on. At least, a new handheld system with its own exclusive library has greater incentive.

[kupomogli]

To the higher-ups, it's potential trouble. Trouble to their profit margins and trouble to their bottom line.

With the average Gamestop employee's terrible pay rate and the amount that Gamestop gets from each used game sale, the higher ups can afford to lose some money.

Now clearly the CEO of Gamestop isn't making this much, but anyone remember how much the current CEO of Walmart is making per year? I think about 10 years ago it was 20 million a year?

The thing that's hurting the bottom line of all these big companies is all these large bonus', etc, that certain higher ups are getting. This is the reason why multiple banks, car dealerships, porn industry, etc, filed for bankruptcy. The money is pretty much being stolen though in a sense, legally(not true, but nothing can be done about it.)

Why do you think they push used games sales so much. Everyone has someone above them, and then those people have people above them. They're being pushed by the ones above, which causes them having to push, then when you get to the bottom, the employees, treated like crap because that's how the managers at the stores are being treated by their bosses. Maybe it's a good thing about the Go. Give the Gamestop employees a bit of a break when it comes to people who end up picking up the system. It'll put a nice dent in the corporate wallets and maybe Gamestop will have a reason to start competing again like when EB Games and Gamestop(and all the other places that were swallowed) were seperate, rather than being a monopoly now that both are merged.

[Icarus Moonsight]

GS only needs worry about the PSPGo if it actually sells well. Besides, the UMDs they already have are not really flying off the shelves either. I can see them filling system pre-orders and then having a system or two on hand in most stores, in case someone asks. But, I don't see them advertising much at all in-store or in store print, unless Sony puts out some serious compensation incentive or plays the douche card on them in some way. Like pulling GS off their assigned Sony reps routes.

It would have made more sense, intuitively, to just do a direct digital PSP2. But, if you view the PSPGo more as a market test product/experiment things start to make a bit more sense. That's why the baseball analogy fits the situation so well, in my mind anyway. In nearly all cases, you swing for the fence. In a few cases though, you can apply a tactical sacrifice and gain something of worth. If the PSPGo bombs or not isn't really the issue. The bunter is nearly always thrown out at first base. The issue is the sales of digital titles per Go unit. If the attatch rate is within or exceeds their expectations, then the PSP2 will be pure digital delivery. If the attatch rate is equal to or worse than the standard PSP units (both in digital and UMD sales) in some sort of equivocated time frame (since PSP has had much more time at market), then the PSP2 will be like the older PSPs and use physical and digital delivery. I'm fairly certain UMD will not make it to the PSP2 in either case. PSP title BC on PSP2 could be offered via digital? Maybe at that point a UMD transfer program might be more doable for Sony. Since then the goals and strategy will be firm.

[Press_Start]

Like pulling GS off their assigned Sony reps routes.

That's an interesting scenario to see played out. Unless ToyRUs, Best Buy, and Walmart start accepting pre-owned games, GS can rely on the used market as people need a place to sell them. Though employees would have to use money for trades instead of in-store credit for better incentive as they rarely have brand new Sony stock anymore, going with the assumption. I can still see them marketing their products as "just as new" for cheaper price as a prudent method especially in the recession.

But that's seeing things from GS viewpoint, I wonder how a move like that will cost Sony? (I know "effect" would fit better in neutral terms but seeing as GS is a big player in the VG market and taking yourself away from that, as a huge company, can not be a positive experience. At least, in the short run.)

[kupomogli]

Could Gamestop do this? Instead of charging a suggested retail price for the PSP Go and games, couldn't they price it as whatever they want and then even reduce the regular PSP price and leave the UMD prices regular. Pretty much assuring it won't sell? Sure they'll have a bunch of worthless systems per store, but when they do inventory, they don't get charged for what's not missing.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

...It would have made more sense, intuitively, to just do a direct digital PSP2. But, if you view the PSPGo more as a market test product/experiment things start to make a bit more sense...

Um, judging by the (ridiculous IMO) reaction that the Go has caused on the web/amongst "core" gamers, I think the PSP2 would have been a disaster if they took it right out of the gate with no physical media.

My position has always been that this is Sony making a market experiment which they have likely already calculated the cost of failing. (And have determined that it's a loss that they can afford to take.)

And while we will ultimately have to wait and see what the end result of this experiment is (it could fail, it could take off with a powerful and spendy segment of the market completely separate from "core gamers" - they're out there whether you know it or not) Personally I still think that the PSP2 will retain SOME type of physical media option. Be it discs (BLU-MD?) or some type of non-optical media, but if the Go is a wildly profitable venture only then will the potential move to a download only PSP2 become intuitive.

[megasdkirby]

We just got a promotional package at work (Sears) containing a DVD (or BluRay?) disc.

What does this disc contain? Does anyone have an idea or a picture?

[Ed Oscuro]

I'm inclined to agree with the Relaxer here - there's no reason to think that Sony isn't hedging against a flop, but they're hoping that what is clearly an ambitious - if also slightly stupid - feature list will fill a market niche.

At least the Wii was a Gamecube 1.5; the PSP Go is like a PSP 1.0000001. Actually, the PSP Go is actually a step backwards! Correct me if I'm wrong (and I may be forgetting one), but is this the first time in history that a console has been tweaked and re-released in a form that didn't play the original games? Am I missing something here? Wouldn't this be like if the Atari 2600 Jr. (or NES top loader, or Genesis model 2, etc.) didn't play the original carts? Who the fuck approved this?

When someone uses this headline a year from now, I want credit for it: PSP GOne
Epic post, sir. Well done.

However, as strange as it sounds, consider that they may actually be laying the foundations for future success: The market for portable CD players is pretty much gone, even though they provide better quality music than most MP3s people use on their PMPs (iPods, Walkmans, Zunez, Rios and whatever else). Convenience is the key feature here, and being able to carry around something in your pocket that you can use by itself, without even a case if you wish, is ultimately more useful (all other things being equal - as you pointed out, they aren't, and the media library is going to be a crucial element for most gamers here) than a device which requires you pack along extra media with it.

I don't know yet whether they will add enough space for developers to create titles with a level of detail and depth (and movies) on a level with the PSP, but this may end up putting downward pressure on development costs which is a key for digital distribution. That could ultimately provide much more variety for users, and you'd be able to access all of your library at once.

I've noticed what seems to be a trend of many PSP users not playing nearly as much original software, as a ratio, compared to in the past. We saw inklings of homebrew software (and things in gray areas of legality) being run on systems before the PSP, but these didn't have much market penetration or were too primitive. Suddenly, the PSP is released and it seems that most people use the memory stick to load up whatever they want and play it.

Sony will eventually have to get around the digital distribution phenomenon, and while it does create issues and worries for people who already have their system, it's a credit to them that they aren't continuing to try to shove an obsolete media paradigm on users. What's more - and this is something I have always disapproved of - many of our own users here on DP have said that they like to see backwards compatibility killed off from time to time with the idea that it creates downward pressure on prices (I know, I don't buy it either), but it seems to be a fact that not everybody needs BC, and when it comes time to cut costs, that's one of the first things to go.

Now we'll just have to worry about things coming out of Sony DADC...things dealing with DRM.

[Poofta!]

Oh okay. Why does Sony release bundles which make its more expensive version of the same system even less appealing?

omg dude you still dont get it. youre obviously not the target here. the go is aimed at people who DONT want umd. you can get a portable piece of hardware which requires you to carry around a pocket full of UMDs for 200$ w/ a game/movie/2gb or you get the evolution of the console which is completely self sufficient and clearly more applicable to the 'digital age' w/ 8gb for 250.

people here on DP are mostly collectors, digital media makes our hobby non existent (going forward) which automatically makes this console NOT for us. stop complaining that a company is making a product which is NOT for you. if homebrew was not an issue, the GO is definitely the more advance, modern console.

[BHvrd]

I want to add one thing to this post and it's the reason WHY I want a PspGo.

Honestly when I go somewhere I hardly EVER take my Psp with me, i'll take the Nintendo DS instead because the design is much more portable friendly. Psp up to this point has been a pain to take with you and now with a clam shell design somewhat like DS I will be taking it with me. Less wires with bluetooth is actually a big draw for me as well.

I can understand the people upset over the apparent slight of hand with the UMD program and honestly Sony should get on the ball and say yes they will do it. Regardless I will not buy it at $249.99. I never pay over $150 for a handheld, so yeah I don't agree on the price either but I just wanted to point out what I do like just to spin it a tad. Sony is failing in many areas with this but imo the design is a success. Much more portable friendly than a big ass screen wide open saying "scratch me!".

[mobiusclimber]

After thinking about this for awhile, I'm starting to wonder if not having physical media matters at all. I rarely play UMD games on my PSP. I play emulated (and fan-translated) games for older systems almost exclusively. Almost every PSP game I've played has been underwhelming save a scant few. Once the hackers get their hands on the GO I don't see things being any different there either. I won't be buying it, since my 1001 works just fine, thanks, but I can see this being a non-issue for so many people who already don't play PSP games.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Further food for thought on this whole topic, the PSP store will be updated tomorrow and all the following titles will be available for purchase/download at these prices (in the US store anyway)

This is IN ADDITION TO the decent/healthy amount of legacy PSP titles AND PS1 Classics that are/were already available (and not listed).

Expect this list to grow every thursday.

ON-SALE TITLES:


Puzzle Quest: Challenge of the Warlords PSP Temporary Price Drop (now $7.99)
Cube Temporary Sale (now $4.99)
Dead Head Fred Temporary Price Drop (now $7.99)
PQ: Practical Intelligence Quotient Temporary Sale (now $4.99)
PQ: Practical Intelligence Quotient 2 Temporary Price Drop (now $7.99)
WTF: Work Time Fun Temporary Sale (now $4.99)
Prinny: Can I Really be the Hero? Temporary Sale (now $9.99)
Holy Invasion of Privacy, Badman! Temporary Sale (now $9.99)
TV Show King Permanent Price Drop (now $7.99)


SCEA
• Gran Turismo PSP ($39.99)
• God of War Chains of Olympus ($15.99)
• Secret Agent Clank ($31.99)
• LocoRoco 2 ($15.99)
• PixelJunk Monsters Deluxe ($19.99)
• Daxter ($15.99)
• Resistance Retribution ($31.99)
• MLB 09 The Show ($31.99)
• MotorStorm Arctic Edge ($39.99)
505 Games
• IL-2 Sturmovik: Birds of Prey ($29.99)

ACTIVISION
• Cabela's African Safari ($14.99)
• Rapala Trophies ($14.99)
• Gun Showdown ($14.99)
• SWAT: Target Liberty ($19.99)
• Crash Tag Team Racing ($14.99)
• Cabela's Dangerous Hunts: Ultimate Challenge ($14.99)
• Crash: Mind Over Mutant ($29.99)
• Crash of the Titans ($19.99)
• Activision Hits Remixed ($14.99)

Aksys Games
• Guilty Gear XX Accent Core Plus ($24.99)

Atari
• Dragon Ball Z Shin Budokai ($14.99)
• Dragon Ball Z Shin Budokai Another Road ($14.99)
Atlas
• Shin Megami Tensei: Persona ($39.99)

Capcom
• Capcom Classics Collection Reloaded ($19.99)
• Monster Hunter Freedom Unite ($29.99)

Codemasters
• Dirt 2 ($29.99)

Crave Entertainment
• Pinball Hall of Fame ($9.99)
• Puzzle Challenge: Crosswords and More! ($4.99)
• Brunswick Pro Bowling ($9.99)

EA
• The Sims 2 ($14.99)
• The Sims 2 Castaway ($9.99)
• The Sims 2 Pets ($9.99)
• Need For Speed Underground Rivals ($14.99)
• Need For Speed Most Wanted ($19.99)
• Need for Speed SHIFT ($39.99)
• Need For Speed ProStreet ($19.99)
• Need for Speed Carbon ($19.99)
• Medal of Honor Heroes ($19.99)
• Fight Night Round 3 ($19.99)
• G.I.JOE The Rise of Cobra ($39.99)
• Madden NFL 10 ($39.99)
• Scrabble ($19.99)
• Medal of Honor Heroes 2 ($19.99)
• Burnout Legends ($19.99)
• Burnout Dominator ($14.99)
• Lord of the Rings: Tactics ($9.99)
• Def Jam Fight For New York: The Takeover ($9.99)
• Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 10 ($39.99)
• NCAA Football 10 ($39.99)

KOEI
• Dynasty Warriors Strikeforce ($29.99)
• Warriors Orochi 2 ($29.99)

LucasArts
• Indiana Jones and the Staff of Kings ($19.99)
• LEGO Indiana Jones: The Original Adventure ($19.99)
• Thrillville: Off the Rails ($19.99)
• Star Wars: Battlefront Renegade Squadron ($19.99)
• Star Wars: Battlefront II ($19.99)
• Star Wars: The Force Unleashed ($19.99)

Midway
• Mortal Kombat: Unchained ($19.99)
• Hot Brain ($14.99)

Namco Bandai
• SOULCALIBUR: Broken Destiny ($39.99)

NIS America
• Blade Dancer: Lineage of Light ($4.99)
• Mana Khemia: Student Alliance ($14.99)
• Disgaea: Afternoon of Darkness ($14.99)
• Disgaea 2: Dark Hero Days ($29.99)
• Prinny: Can I Really be the Hero? ($9.99)
• Dragoneer's Aria ($14.99)

Playlogic
• Obscure: The Aftermath ($29.99)

Rockstar Games
• Beaterator ($39.99)

SEGA
• Alien Syndrome ($15.99)
• Super Monkey Ball Adventure ($15.99)
• Crazy Taxi: Fare Wars ($15.99)
• Iron Man ($19.99)
• Sonic Rivals ($15.99)
• Sonic Rivals 2 ($29.99)
• Full Auto 2: Battlelines ($15.99)
• Sega Genesis Collection ($15.99)
• Crush ($15.99)

SNK PLAYMORE
• The King of Fighters Collection ($19.99)
• Metal Slug Anthology ($19.99)
• SNK Arcade Classics Vol. 1 ($19.99)
• Samurai Showdown Anthology ($19.99)

SQUARE ENIX
• THEXDER NEO ($9.99)

THQ
• Avatar: The Last Airbender ($19.99)
• Juiced 2: Hot Import Nights ($19.99)
• SpongeBob SquarePants: The Yellow Avenger ($19.99)
• MX vs ATV Untamed ($19.99)
• WWE SmackDown vs RAW 2009 ($19.99)

Ubisoft
• Cloudy with a Chance of Meatballs ($29.99)
• Tom Clancy's EndWar ($29.99)
• Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six: Vegas ($19.99)
• Prince of Persia Revelations ($9.99)
• Prince of Persia Rival Swords ($14.99)

Warner Bros. Interactive
• 300: March To Glory ($14.99)
• Justice League Heroes ($14.99)
• Lego Batman The Video Game ($19.99)

PSP "minis"


Alien Havoc ($4.99)
Tetris ($9.99)
Hero of Sparta ($6.99)
Brainpipe ($4.99)
Fieldrunners ($6.99)
Sudoku ($4.99)
Funky Punch ($4.99)




Yeah, there's some full price stuff in there, but there's also some decently priced bargains and a lot of acceptably priced titles.

Nice to see a big flood of DLC software made available at PSP Go launch, wasn't sure that they were going to make that happen.

[Icarus Moonsight]

Well, what good would it be to release a handheld that is digital dl only if you don't have stuff up to buy and dl... This isn't exactly a brand new platform launch here. :/

Prinny and Thexder @ $10, not bad. I already bought my Prinny UMD ($20 from Best Buy), but Thexder I could actually go for. The thing about Prinny that pissed me off was the dl add-ons. Maybe if you can get it all for $10 I might actually be compeled to buy it this way and save a little to get the whole game I should have gotten in the first place.

The rest is still too much for my taste. New releases like Soulcalibur at full retail? It should be $5 cheaper, if not $10, than the physical copy. Hopefully, this mistake doesn't take Sony 2-3 years to correct.

[c0ldb33r]

Two thoughts:

1) Those PSP Minis are still too expensive. $10 for Tetris? come on...; and

2) I'll probabaly get a PSP Go after the format has failed and they're on clearance. I hate the lack of UMD drive, but they do look kind of neat, and people will eventually figure out a way to get my UMD discs onto the thing as iso images.

[swlovinist]

While I clearly think the PSP go is going to fail, I think that Sony is definatley testing the market to see how well a downloadable only system sells, as well as testing the prices on games. I am sure that they will be watching closely what happens with the PSP go to see what they do with the PSP 2.

I will be very surprised if the PSP go does anything, and after seeing the download prices, I am not impressed at all.

[darkwingduck13]

omg dude you still dont get it. youre obviously not the target here. the go is aimed at people who DONT want umd. you can get a portable piece of hardware which requires you to carry around a pocket full of UMDs for 200$ w/ a game/movie/2gb or you get the evolution of the console which is completely self sufficient and clearly more applicable to the 'digital age' w/ 8gb for 250.

people here on DP are mostly collectors, digital media makes our hobby non existent (going forward) which automatically makes this console NOT for us. stop complaining that a company is making a product which is NOT for you. if homebrew was not an issue, the GO is definitely the more advance, modern console.

I think that what makes it distasteful to most isn't so much that there's a choice being offered (that choice being either the digital download PSP Go or the physical media PSP), but that anyone with half a brain knows that as soon as they can, Sony will completely jettison the physical media completely. Whether the PSP Go is "aimed" at the physical media-hoarding demographic isn't even in question. It's the future implications of the PSP Go that have people up in arms. In no way is this going to turn out to be good for those PSP supporters who want to have their physical media, end of story. Even complete and utter failure of the platform won't have much effect, because they'll just try again later. :bad-words:

The great thing about their list of "temporary sale/price drop" PSN games? Most can be had NEW for less, if you bother shopping around, in physical format that holds some value to someone other than yourself if you ever want/need to get rid of it or let someone else borrow it without worrying about all the activation bullshit.

[kupomogli]

ON-SALE TITLES:

All the NIS America titles released except Disgaea 2 are 50% off for a week.


Prinny and Thexder @ $10, not bad. I already bought my Prinny UMD ($20 from Best Buy), but Thexder I could actually go for. The thing about Prinny that pissed me off was the dl add-ons.

I bought Prinny when it was first released. It was worth it because it's a really good game, but sucks because it sold like crap and the price dropped fairly quickly.

For people who like digital downloads, I'd say 9.99 is an amazing deal. NIS actually put work into the game. The level designs, up until it gets ridiculously hard at the end, are very well done, you can choose whatever area you want to play and in what order, so that specific area is easier if you play it as one of the first but harder if you play it as a later one.

If there's one game that has been developed by NIS that isn't a joke, it's Prinny. They should stick to platformers, because they suck balls at developing tactical RPG titles.

--

But yeah. I was going to mention the long list of PSP games that were added to the store. Since alot are cheaper or around the same price, you're also cutting out taxes, as well as having to drive to the store which saves on gas. If you order from Amazon of course, it'll get delivered right to your home at what's cheaper than the PSN store, but you have to pay for shipping unless it's over $25.

[Flack]

Reviews are starting to come in now, which say more eloquently what I was trying to say: the PSP Go charges you more for less.

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/reviews/2009/10/psp-go-review-sony-is-charging-you-much-more-for-much-less.ars

"It's hard to pin down who exactly this system is for. People with unlimited gaming budgets? The Go is more expensive than the current PSP offerings, and it gives you fewer options about where you can get your games. Since Sony has stated publicly that the company is going to stick with MSRP for all of its releases, the digital versions of games may be the same price as their retail counterparts, but more likely will be more expensive in many circumstances.

You can't shop around for the best deal with your games, you'll never be able to sell a game, and the system is completely locked down when downloading a purchase. The controls are more cramped, and Sony has made sure you can only buy their cables. The wireless standard hasn't been upgraded, and the system is significantly more expensive than any of its competitors. When you close the system you see a big, beautiful screen you can't do anything with.

In other words, this system is for people who don't mind rebuying all their content, never buy used games, and don't mind paying more for less. If you're agoraphobic and the idea of driving to a physical store to buy a game is terrifying, this system is for you. So we're looking for a gamer who is both wealthy, and frighteningly antisocial.

The rest of us will stick with our current hardware, thanks. If you sell a system that takes hours of setup, downloading, and charging before you can see what a game looks like on the screen, you have failed pretty spectacularly. I absolutely love my PSP, but this new iteration of the platform is what would happen if a facepalm was turned into a piece of hardware.

[darkwingduck13]

Reviews are starting to come in now, which say more eloquently what I was trying to say: the PSP Go charges you more for less.

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/reviews/2009/10/psp-go-review-sony-is-charging-you-much-more-for-much-less.ars

"It's hard to pin down who exactly this system is for. People with unlimited gaming budgets? The Go is more expensive than the current PSP offerings, and it gives you fewer options about where you can get your games. Since Sony has stated publicly that the company is going to stick with MSRP for all of its releases, the digital versions of games may be the same price as their retail counterparts, but more likely will be more expensive in many circumstances.

You can't shop around for the best deal with your games, you'll never be able to sell a game, and the system is completely locked down when downloading a purchase. The controls are more cramped, and Sony has made sure you can only buy their cables. The wireless standard hasn't been upgraded, and the system is significantly more expensive than any of its competitors. When you close the system you see a big, beautiful screen you can't do anything with.

In other words, this system is for people who don't mind rebuying all their content, never buy used games, and don't mind paying more for less. If you're agoraphobic and the idea of driving to a physical store to buy a game is terrifying, this system is for you. So we're looking for a gamer who is both wealthy, and frighteningly antisocial.

The rest of us will stick with our current hardware, thanks. If you sell a system that takes hours of setup, downloading, and charging before you can see what a game looks like on the screen, you have failed pretty spectacularly. I absolutely love my PSP, but this new iteration of the platform is what would happen if a facepalm was turned into a piece of hardware.

That review kicks ass. I was honestly shocked to see a review that so blatantly calls Sony out for all its anti-customer behavior in regard to this system...I just expected endless drooling over the system's "sexy" form factor. Way to go, Ars. Hopefully someone e-mailed that link to Kaz Hirai. :-D

And holy shit, I can't believe nobody has posted this link that was embedded in the article yet. All the BS about downloadable games cutting out the middle man and allowing cheaper pricing right out of the gate? Yeah, Sony's not interested: http://www.joystiq.com/2009/09/23/sony-to-maintain-pricing-parity-for-downloadable-psp-games/

[Icarus Moonsight]

That might be my problem. I have a 2000 w/ UMDs already, I'm not wealthy and I generally enjoy the company of others.

Less for more... Starting to think that Sony teamed up with the politicians to make this thing. ;)

[mobiusclimber]

I never considered Sony to actually be stupid until I read that joystiq article. I kept thinking in my mind that they had some sort of strategy for the PSP Go that I was just failing to comprehend, or that it simply wasn't made/marketed for me. Now I understand that Sony are just completely arrogant morons with no concept of the real world or how things work outside of their billion dollar bubble.

There had to have been a meeting at Sony where they discussed what they were going to do about the "problem" of the used game market, how it was eating into their already-bloated profits. And so the PSP Go "scheme" was hatched. While Sony execs sit around twirling their mustaches, imagining how they're screwing over those "weasels" who keep "stealing" their profits by not selling only new games, consumers look at and laugh over this new fiasco. Because yes that's exactly what it is and will be: a horrible fiasco.

Looking over the list, I knew several of those games were cheaper as physical media. It's telling that the games that are actually cheaper to buy as DLC are all made by companies other than Sony. Looks like they think people will pay more for a download then they will for physical media. Stupid.

[megasdkirby]

Now I understand that Sony are just completely arrogant morons with no concept of the real world or how things work outside of their billion dollar bubble.

Unfortunately, it's been like that for years. :(

The popularity of their previous consoles made them blind and now they are paying for it. Same thing happened to Nintendo. For me, it's Deja Vu all over again.

Already had three customers refuse to purchase the white PSPGo because of lack of UMD support...and one customer purchased two units, but may return them if the "info" he finds does not please him.

So those units will basically be returned, because he despises the idea of downloading games over the 'net.

It's unfortunate. because the PSPGo had so much potential, ruined by horribly bad marketing decisions.

[c0ldb33r]

...and one customer purchased two units, but may return them if the "info" he finds does not please him.

So those units will basically be returned, because he despises the idea of downloading games over the 'net.
uhhh... then why did he buy the PSP Go to begin with? Did I miss something?

[Icarus Moonsight]

I think Sony has just burned up all the goodwill they earned from stopping the stupid dance with the PS3... That digital price parity bullshit, I hope it wounds/kills them financially. Change or be forgotten.

Looks like I'll be buying a 360 soon. Thanks for showing your cards and making up my mind Sony.

[darkwingduck13]

I never considered Sony to actually be stupid until I read that joystiq article. I kept thinking in my mind that they had some sort of strategy for the PSP Go that I was just failing to comprehend, or that it simply wasn't made/marketed for me. Now I understand that Sony are just completely arrogant morons with no concept of the real world or how things work outside of their billion dollar bubble.

There had to have been a meeting at Sony where they discussed what they were going to do about the "problem" of the used game market, how it was eating into their already-bloated profits. And so the PSP Go "scheme" was hatched. While Sony execs sit around twirling their mustaches, imagining how they're screwing over those "weasels" who keep "stealing" their profits by not selling only new games, consumers look at and laugh over this new fiasco. Because yes that's exactly what it is and will be: a horrible fiasco.

Looking over the list, I knew several of those games were cheaper as physical media. It's telling that the games that are actually cheaper to buy as DLC are all made by companies other than Sony. Looks like they think people will pay more for a download then they will for physical media. Stupid.

This.

Seriously, anyone who doubted that Sony's plan all along has been to kill the used games market and screw the consumer into basically accepting a monopoly just hasn't been paying attention or has been drinking Kaz's Kool-Aid.

It all goes back to this "licensing" BS. If they take away the physical media, that's one less thing customers can point to when saying that they've purchased a product. Sony and every other software/content maker on the planet have decided they want to sell us "licenses" rather than a copy of a product. The next step will be incrementally turning "purchasing" into "renting" by rigging all the digital content so that it will "expire" after a certain time unless you've bought a "lifetime" license, which will of course cost more. Eventually, you won't get to "purchase" anything at all...or maybe the definition of "purchasing" will get changed to the definition of "renting." Either way, it's pure crap and if customers don't rise up and stop accepting whatever the corporations want to feed them, we'll be going down that road faster than anyone realizes.

:frustrated:

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

This.

Seriously, anyone who doubted that Sony's plan all along has been to kill the used games market and screw the consumer into basically accepting a monopoly just hasn't been paying attention or has been drinking Kaz's Kool-Aid.

It all goes back to this "licensing" BS. If they take away the physical media, that's one less thing customers can point to when saying that they've purchased a product. Sony and every other software/content maker on the planet have decided they want to sell us "licenses" rather than a copy of a product. The next step will be incrementally turning "purchasing" into "renting" by rigging all the digital content so that it will "expire" after a certain time unless you've bought a "lifetime" license, which will of course cost more. Eventually, you won't get to "purchase" anything at all...or maybe the definition of "purchasing" will get changed to the definition of "renting." Either way, it's pure crap and if customers don't rise up and stop accepting whatever the corporations want to feed them, we'll be going down that road faster than anyone realizes.

:frustrated:

Yes! You're right, you have it all figured out!

Let us all RISE UP against software licensing!

Wait, one second .... just so we're all clear on your plan - how do you propose that we "rise up" against licensing and/or end user license agreements?

And while we're on the subject ... how will the removal of digital rights and EULAs help the game industry and/or benefit consumers?

I assume that you have a more detailed thesis on the subject since you're so clearly positioned on the matter.

[darkwingduck13]

Yes! You're right, you have it all figured out!

Let us all RISE UP against software licensing!

Kick ass! I mean, I knew that I was right, but to find out that such a reasonable, well-respected, upstanding member of the online community agrees with me? I am truly reinvigorated.

The answer really is pretty simple and doesn't require a huge, detailed thesis at all.

If a company releases a product you don't like or has implications you don't like, don't buy it.

If a company continues to exhibit behavior that you don't like or agree with, then don't support the company. When people ask why, give them a calm, rational explanation.

In this case, I will never buy anything from the PSN store. Further, since I'm insulted by Sony's actions, I will likely never again buy any retail-priced new Sony product. If I see a title on clearance that I want, I'll consider the price and make a decision.

Is this going to hurt game devs that I like? Maybe so. However, it's the only way I have of sending a clear message that I'd rather see them develop for a different company's system.

Purchasing power is the only method customers have for sending a true, concrete message to a large company.

The "problem" with this is that very few people are willing to miss out on stuff they want to play, despite the wealth of games/hobbies/ways of spending free time. It's easier to cave in and get a bastardized version of what they want than to stick it out and support what they really want in the long run.

Luckily enough, that is not my problem. It's just an individual choice, and only time will tell if enough people make the same one.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Kick ass! I mean, I knew that I was right, but to find out that such a reasonable, well-respected, upstanding member of the online community agrees with me? I am truly reinvigorated.

The answer really is pretty simple and doesn't require a huge, detailed thesis at all.

If a company releases a product you don't like or has implications you don't like, don't buy it.

If a company continues to exhibit behavior that you don't like or agree with, then don't support the company. When people ask why, give them a calm, rational explanation.

In this case, I will never buy anything from the PSN store. Further, since I'm insulted by Sony's actions, I will likely never again buy any retail-priced new Sony product. If I see a title on clearance that I want, I'll consider the price and make a decision.

Is this going to hurt game devs that I like? Maybe so. However, it's the only way I have of sending a clear message that I'd rather see them develop for a different company's system.

Purchasing power is the only method customers have for sending a true, concrete message to a large company.

The "problem" with this is that very few people are willing to miss out on stuff they want to play, despite the wealth of games/hobbies/ways of spending free time. It's easier to cave in and get a bastardized version of what they want than to stick it out and support what they really want in the long run.

Luckily enough, that is not my problem. It's just an individual choice, and only time will tell if enough people make the same one.

Just so I'm further edified on your position -

Taking into consideration that Sony and 3rd party developers are continuing to develop, produce & support the PSP 3000 series hardware and UMD hardware/software,

it is the ... mere existence of DLC only hardware as an option to consumers that you find insulting to the point that you're fully boycotting Sony at retail?

To what end would you hope that this boycott affects Sony?

Would you like to see them so financially damaged that they throw in the towel and completely and bow out of the games industry?

Would you like to see them revert to a physical media/DLC combo business?

Or would you like them to shut down the PSN store/DLC options completely in favor of physical media only business?

Your position on the matter is fascinating to a company-favorite-agnostic gamer like myself, so I'm genuinely curious about your ideal fantasy end-game.

[darkwingduck13]

it is the ... mere existence of DLC only hardware as an option to consumers that you find insulting to the point that you're fully boycotting Sony at retail?

No. A true choice being given to customers would never alienate me to that extent.



To what end would you hope that this boycott affects Sony?

Mine alone probably won't affect them that much. If enough people see through the ruse, then perhaps they'll change their ways.



Would you like to see them so financially damaged that they throw in the towel and completely and bow out of the games industry?

This would be the optimistic outcome, I would think. From outright attempting to set up the Dreamcast to be stillborn, to striving to kill 2D gaming with the release of the Playstation and their stringent refusal to give permission for 2D titles on the platform, to this obvious push to get rid of physical media and customer ownership, to having company execs publicly declare that we should count ourselves lucky to be able to work toward affording their expensive products, they've made poor decision after poor decision. Am I insulted as both a gamer and a customer by their continued arrogance and greed? Absolutely. Do I think they need a severe bitchslapping? You bet. Undoubtedly someone else would rise up to take their place and hopefully learn from their mistakes. It is the way of the world.



Would you like to see them revert to a physical media/DLC combo business?

Or would you like them to shut down the PSN store/DLC options completely in favor of physical media only business?

Again, I never turn up my nose at a situation where there's a true choice. However, I think it's naive to go on believing that if their digital distribution schemes succeed that physical media will continue to be a "choice" given to the consumer. Profit margins are far higher on digital distribution with the way Sony has positioned itself. It won't make sense on the bottom line to a greedy corporation to continue producing "costly" physical media if people accept the digital distribution. The used market will disappear with the loss of physical media, which is another financial benefit to the company rather than the customer. I like physical media and the used game market. I like having assured ownership of a product. Therefore, I cannot rationally believe that this will turn out to be a continued "choice" for the customers.



Your position on the matter is fascinating to a company-favorite-agnostic gamer like myself, so I'm genuinely curious about your ideal fantasy end-game.
I'm a gamer. I'm fairly company-agnostic myself. I don't own a Microsoft console at the moment (unless you count my PC, but even Microsoft doesn't seem to care about that), but I own something from basically every other major company. I do however disagree with a ton of stuff that Sony has done over the past few generations that has actively kept me from enjoying the games I want to play. Contributing to the demise of Working Designs sure didn't help...not that Vic Ireland was the best of leaders, but they did bring over a lot of the titles that I was interested in.

The ideal fantasy end-game would be that companies offer both options for both types of customers, with a natural price break for the cheaper product (the digitally-distributed product, of course). Of course the companies would still be interested in making a profit, and they'd understand the margins would be smaller on the physical media sales...but they'd still be making money, and that would be A-OK!

Can we all go play some Outrun 2006 now? :puppydogeyes:

[TonyTheTiger]

No. A true choice being given to customers would never alienate me to that extent.

Isn't that what this is? If Sony had declared that all PSP games would be download only from this point forward I could understand the ire but here it sounds like an "option A" or "option B" choice in the most textbook way.

That being said, what confuses me most is that Sony is making the choice so easy for people by completely ignoring the requisite give and take necessary for two potential options to find a place in the market. Not so much about the hardware itself but rather the pricing strategy of the software. If they said that new PSP games would cost $10 less via download on the PSP Go than the retail UMD would sell for I could see a clear divide where different people pick one of the two options based on their needs and weighed values. But since there doesn't seem to be much of a "give" with the Go it seems like the goal of providing a specialized "option B" is going to fall flat by alienating the people who would otherwise be game.

If Sony was really looking to oust physical media in favor of digital distribution I would think they'd go out of their way to make said digital distribution more attractive to the consumer in order to get the ball rolling.

The ability to download a game at 2:00 in the morning may be neat but it's only going to be considered a fringe benefit people don't really think about until they find themselves in that situation. What most consumers look at first and foremost is the price and seeing $39.99 for the physical game/book/box vs. $39.99 for the digital copy is not going to get many people on the route that would lead to exclusive digital downloads.

But, more to the point, you seem to be hell bent on declaring Sony directly responsible for every single bad thing that has ever happened in the industry over the last 15 years. The industry, let alone the business world in general, is far more complicated than "Sony killed the Dreamcast" or "Sony killed Working Designs." With all due respect, making these accusations, particularly by bookending them with sound bite comments about how greedy and evil corporations are and the like, makes it seem like you lack perspective. This is Sony, not Lex Corp.

[darkwingduck13]

Isn't that what this is? If Sony had declared that all PSP games would be download only from this point forward I could understand the ire but here it sounds like an "option A" or "option B" choice in the most textbook way.

See, I would go for that if this wasn't such a situation where it seems pretty obvious that a vote for one thing is also a vote against the other thing. Add in a company with Sony's track record, and, well...



But, more to the point, you seem to be hell bent on declaring Sony directly responsible for every single bad thing that has ever happened in the industry over the last 15 years. The industry, let alone the business world in general, is far more complicated than "Sony killed the Dreamcast" or "Sony killed Working Designs." With all due respect, making these accusations, particularly by bookending them with sound bite comments about how greedy and evil corporations are and the like, makes it seem like you lack perspective. This is Sony, not Lex Corp.
Kaz Corp! Holy cow, I've got a new slogan...thank you for that one! ROFL

Seriously though, I'm not blaming Sony for those things. I am however stating that I don't like the roles they played in those situations. Vic and Sega had a ton to do with their own demises, but did Sony have to be the ones there pushing them off the cliff to destruction? Did someone hold a gun to a Sony exec's head and make him orchestrate the security breaches of thousands of PCs not that long ago? Of course not. There've also been plenty of bad things happen in the industry over the past 15 years that Sony had absolutely nothing to do with. I was asked a question about why I would feel like boycotting the company, and I answered. They've done a bunch of stuff I don't like. There doesn't have to be any reason beyond that.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Isn't that what this is? If Sony had declared that all PSP games would be download only from this point forward I could understand the ire but here it sounds like an "option A" or "option B" choice in the most textbook way.

That being said, what confuses me most is that Sony is making the choice so easy for people by completely ignoring the requisite give and take necessary for two potential options to find a place in the market. Not so much about the hardware itself but rather the pricing strategy of the software. If they said that new PSP games would cost $10 less via download on the PSP Go than the retail UMD would sell for I could see a clear divide where different people pick one of the two options based on their needs and weighed values. But since there doesn't seem to be much of a "give" with the Go it seems like the goal of providing a specialized "option B" is going to fall flat by alienating the people who would otherwise be game.

If Sony was really looking to oust physical media in favor of digital distribution I would think they'd go out of their way to make said digital distribution more attractive to the consumer in order to get the ball rolling.

The ability to download a game at 2:00 in the morning may be neat but it's only going to be considered a fringe benefit people don't really think about until they find themselves in that situation. What most consumers look at first and foremost is the price and seeing $39.99 for the physical game/book/box vs. $39.99 for the digital copy is not going to get many people on the route that would lead to exclusive digital downloads.

But, more to the point, you seem to be hell bent on declaring Sony directly responsible for every single bad thing that has ever happened in the industry over the last 15 years. The industry, let alone the business world in general, is far more complicated than "Sony killed the Dreamcast" or "Sony killed Working Designs." With all due respect, making these accusations, particularly by bookending them with sound bite comments about how greedy and evil corporations are and the like, makes it seem like you lack perspective. This is Sony, not Lex Corp.

Agreed. Indeed.

The current pricing tiers are certainly a valid issue, but even right out of the gate there's proof that "sale prices" can and will happen even in a DLC environment, and history shows that both sale and permanent price drops have happened on the PSN in the past, years before the Go was even even in development.

Since most of us are deal-sniffers anyway, I can't imagine those opportunities will be missed (I snagged Puzzle Quest for $8 yesterday myself) and on the contrary to boycotting ALL digital distribution I think that a better "reactive" strategy is to speak with your wallet via active purchase of ONLY SALE/DISCOUNT DLC software.

If any company sees that the majority of sales spikes happen during a sale or on discounted prices, they'll be more prone to re-evaluate the baseline.

[Icarus Moonsight]

Isn't that what this is? If Sony had declared that all PSP games would be download only from this point forward I could understand the ire but here it sounds like an "option A" or "option B" choice in the most textbook way.

Either option A is eliminated in favor of B, or option B is a mild net positive and they decide to drop A to see if that improves B's position, or nothing really happens between the two, or option B is made of broken and fail and you really only had one viable choice the whole time.

Time will tell, but smart money is on the latter.

I was talking to a neighbor this morning and they were talking about getting a Go today. I asked them if they were aware that it was download only and had no UMD drive. They were not amused... I can already tell this is going to be a giant clusterfuck. You think retailers are going to like opened PSP units returned because they don't play PSP games? Sounds ridiculous, but here we are.

[darkwingduck13]

Either option A is eliminated in favor of B, or option B is a mild net positive and they decide to drop A to see if that improves B's position, or nothing really happens between the two, or option B is made of broken and fail and you really only had one viable choice the whole time.

Time will tell, but smart money is on the latter.

This is what those who prefer actually owning things are hoping for, but we can only hope. Hope...and rock! :band:

[Flack]

However, as strange as it sounds, consider that they may actually be laying the foundations for future success.

I'm about to type a whole bunch that will probably get me labelled as "the next Aswald", but here goes.

I think the PSP Go is the worst thing to happen for gamers in the history of video games. And here's why.

Video games aside, consider for a moment the world of electronic gadgets. We have all kinds of doodads these days. Sitting next to me are my Kindle, my iPod, and one of those dual VHS/DVD-R machines. It's made by Magnavox, and in the instruction manual it says "works best with Magnavox brand blank DVD-R discs." Now, we all know that's BS -- the thing works fine with any brand of blank DVD-R you toss in there. And while Magnavox would love it if you bought Magnavox brand DVD-R discs, they wouldn't go so far as to lock out any other brand of disc being used. That would just be crazy. Likewise, Amazon's Kindle makes it really easy for you to effortlessly buy new books from the Amazon bookstore, and we all know about the iPod and iTunes. Even those two devices weren't brazen enough to lock out other sources. I can still copy the mp3s I already own over to my iPod, and I can copy eBooks I already own (after jumping through a few free converting hoops) to my Kindle.

Now as far as gaming consoles go, there are two major places a game stops before you end up with it. The first is a manufacturing plant. The second is a retail outlet of some sort.

Video game manufacturers have been wanting to cut out 3rd party game manufacturers for a long time. Probably everybody here knows about the Nintendo "lock out" chip (the 10NES), which prevented 3rd party carts from working on the NES. The chip was eventually reverse engineered, but, as Sherlock Holmes once said, "the game [was] afoot." What a lot of people consider to be a war against piracy is really a war to control manufacturing. You are not going to start pressing legitimate PS3 Blu-Ray discs in your garage any time soon. (Slideshow from Sony's Blu-ray factory (http://www.news.com.au/technology/gallery/0,23607,5057861-5014321-1,00.html)) That battle is pretty much over. If you want to make a PS3 game, Sony's official plants are going to manufacture the disc. (For the record, Nintendo and Microsoft are no different.)

What hasn't (yet) been taken away from us (consumers) is the retail store. After those games are pressed, they are shipped to stores. Because of free market, as consumers, a lot of good things happen for us. For one thing, we have competition. Rock Band may be cheaper at Walmart this week while Guitar Hero is on sale over at GameStop. Competition is good for consumers! Also, after games are out for a while, prices may drop. When Madden 2010 is released, Madden 2009 drops in price, and Madden 2008 drops even more. Again, that's good for those of us who really don't care about having the most recent roster or set of game options -- hell, half the time it seems like I like last year's Madden better than this year's! And then of course there's the used game market. We all know that places like GameStop give you pennies on the dollar when it comes to trade-ins, but if it's a game you don't play anymore, something is better than nothing, and a couple of old crappy games can add up to enough store credit to get a new game worth playing!

To me, this is what the PSP Go represents -- the death of all of those things. The death of the free market. The death of retail competition.

Unless I missed the announcement, I don't think there will be a used or trade-in section on the PSP store (although, in retrospect, that would be a great idea; let customers delete their games and give them 1/2 the price credit toward another game. Brilliant!) But yeah, you can pretty much kiss the concept of buying used games, swapping games with your friend or trading in games goodbye forever.

When Madden 2011 comes out for the PSP Go, what will happen to Madden 2010? Will it go on sale, or will it just disappear from the store? Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't see Sony putting up a virtual "bargain bin" where you can pick up old copies of Madden for a buck.

And then there's that whole DRM angle that we recently kicked around. What happens when the next GTA "Hot Coffee" incident happens? Will PSP Go owners find their games removed the next time they connect to the PSP store? I'm sure everybody will say "that will never happen" ... until it does. At the very least you can expect things like games that are only available for one weekend, or holiday-specific games, or all other sorts of things that control when you can buy games, and for how much.

I think the PSP Go is more than a gaming system. It's a test. It's a test to see what we, the gaming community, will put up with. Should it succeed, you can bet your sweet asteroids that we'll see all these great features in the next round of gaming consoles. Every PSP Go purchased is like casting a vote that says, "I hate physical media, I hate buying used games, and I will support a gaming system that locks me in to online purchases from the manufacturer. The PSP Go may be a win for casual gamers, but it's a kick in the balls to collectors. I wouldn't buy one simply out of principle. If I got one for free I'd smash it, draw a picture of a butt on the back, write "kiss this" and mail it back to Sony. And if you think I'm kidding, buy me one for Christmas.

[kupomogli]

When Madden 2011 comes out for the PSP Go, what will happen to Madden 2010? Will it go on sale, or will it just disappear from the store? Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't see Sony putting up a virtual "bargain bin" where you can pick up old copies of Madden for a buck.

Need for Speed Most Wanted 5-1-0 is on PSN.

While it's not Madden, it's the same concept. After "set period of time," EA releases another game in the series, in this case, Need for Speed, and strips away all online compatibility with the previous title.

[BHvrd]

Unless I missed the announcement, I don't think there will be a used or trade-in section on the PSP store (although, in retrospect, that would be a great idea; let customers delete their games and give them 1/2 the price credit toward another game. Brilliant!)

You know they could accomplish something like this with a game trading system between users. Say I wanted Racer X and you wanted RPG Y then we could swap and lose the rights to the content unless traded back and before you say they would never do that they already let people share with 5 friends without even swapping, but you lose 1 of your 5 account limits.

A credit as you suggest would be an idea or maybe some buy x number games get x free. Either way I imagine none of these will please collectors, but with streaming game services around the corner like OnLive it could actually be worse than it is atm.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Continuing in the food for thought category:

Our Wiis, PS3s, 360s, PSPs (not Gos) and DSis all have (at this point in time) hundreds of pieces of exclusive DLC software (and DLC content) that is not, was never and will never be available on any type of physical media or at brick-and-mortar retail.

Same distro model as the Go, same lack of used marketplace as the Go, same eventual offline servers fate as Go ...

Regardless of the physical media options that those consoles have, you'll NEVER be able to buy Contra Rebirth, Fat Princess, or Castle Crashers at Game Stop and you'll NEVER be able to trade them in for credit.

I'm curious ... why have we not been/are we not all pitching the same fit over that software?

The Go isn't introducing this model into the marketplace, we've all be partaking in it gleefully for YEARS now with nary a peep, and if there's a current company with a gaming DLC distro model that Sony is aping it's Apple with the iPhone (and I'm not seeing thread after thread with people calling that the first sign of the gaming apocalypse either) ... why is the Go whipping the public into such a frenzy?

Is there a GENUINE fear that the Go will single-handedly cause the elimination of physical media across all companies/systems? Seriously?

After the past 3 years of people absolutely slamming Sony at every turn, why is there such palpable fear that they would have that kind of far-reaching influence with a device that's already been heralded as an expensive failure by legit gaming press?

Even IF Sony went DLC only with ALL of their consoles in the next Gen (which we know isn't going to happen) ... what would make anybody think that Microsoft or Nintendo would follow suit? Isn't Sony in "last place" in the "console warz"? Hasn't Sony lost the respect of their peers and programmers with overly complex hardware architectures and alienated their fans with prohibitive pricing and lack of quality software?

[Kid Ice]

I'm about to type a whole bunch that will probably get me labelled as "the next Aswald", but here goes.

I think the PSP Go is the worst thing to happen for gamers in the history of video games. And here's why.

Video games aside, consider for a moment the world of electronic gadgets. We have all kinds of doodads these days. Sitting next to me are my Kindle, my iPod, and one of those dual VHS/DVD-R machines. It's made by Magnavox, and in the instruction manual it says "works best with Magnavox brand blank DVD-R discs." Now, we all know that's BS -- the thing works fine with any brand of blank DVD-R you toss in there. And while Magnavox would love it if you bought Magnavox brand DVD-R discs, they wouldn't go so far as to lock out any other brand of disc being used. That would just be crazy. Likewise, Amazon's Kindle makes it really easy for you to effortlessly buy new books from the Amazon bookstore, and we all know about the iPod and iTunes. Even those two devices weren't brazen enough to lock out other sources. I can still copy the mp3s I already own over to my iPod, and I can copy eBooks I already own (after jumping through a few free converting hoops) to my Kindle.

I had an iPod years ago and suffered through all kinds of silliness in the way it handled my music collection. If your topic read "I think the iPod is the worst thing to happen to listeners in the history of music" you'd have far more credibility....that thing has been a source of frustration for what, 8 or 9 years now? The PSPgo came out yesterday and it's the worst thing to happen to video games?


Now as far as gaming consoles go, there are two major places a game stops before you end up with it. The first is a manufacturing plant. The second is a retail outlet of some sort....What hasn't (yet) been taken away from us (consumers) is the retail store. After those games are pressed, they are shipped to stores. Because of free market, as consumers, a lot of good things happen for us. For one thing, we have competition. Rock Band may be cheaper at Walmart this week while Guitar Hero is on sale over at GameStop. Competition is good for consumers! Also, after games are out for a while, prices may drop. When Madden 2010 is released, Madden 2009 drops in price, and Madden 2008 drops even more. Again, that's good for those of us who really don't care about having the most recent roster or set of game options -- hell, half the time it seems like I like last year's Madden better than this year's! And then of course there's the used game market. We all know that places like GameStop give you pennies on the dollar when it comes to trade-ins, but if it's a game you don't play anymore, something is better than nothing, and a couple of old crappy games can add up to enough store credit to get a new game worth playing!

There are older titles on PSN at discounted prices. Flack, Madden? When's the last time you played a Madden game? There's an institution that had already done its fair share of damage to gaming before anyone thought of the Go.


To me, this is what the PSP Go represents -- the death of all of those things. The death of the free market. The death of retail competition.

Well I won't miss GameStop if that's where this is going. I don't see this retail competition. WalMart, Target, KMart, they all have the same stuff at more or less the same price. Sure they may have different junk in their bargain bins. Most of that stuff is shovelware anyway.


Unless I missed the announcement, I don't think there will be a used or trade-in section on the PSP store (although, in retrospect, that would be a great idea; let customers delete their games and give them 1/2 the price credit toward another game. Brilliant!) But yeah, you can pretty much kiss the concept of buying used games, swapping games with your friend or trading in games goodbye forever.

Yes. But what this ultimately means in not yet clear. There will still be a demand for inexpensive games.

Here's a real world example. Tonight, I downloaded Activision Hits for $15. This is a game that, for over a year while I owned a PSP, I was not able to find in a retail store, used game store, a buddy's tradebox, etc. What do you think the MSRP of this game was when it came out? At least 20 or 30 bucks right? So I think I paid I fair price. No I didn't get it from a flea market gypsy for a dollar. But maybe Dave Crane and company will see a little of my $15? I don't think that's a bad thing.




When Madden 2011 comes out for the PSP Go, what will happen to Madden 2010? Will it go on sale, or will it just disappear from the store? Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't see Sony putting up a virtual "bargain bin" where you can pick up old copies of Madden for a buck.

And this will be "worst thing to happen for gamers in the history of video games?" Dude, fuck Madden.


And then there's that whole DRM angle that we recently kicked around. What happens when the next GTA "Hot Coffee" incident happens? Will PSP Go owners find their games removed the next time they connect to the PSP store? I'm sure everybody will say "that will never happen" ... until it does. At the very least you can expect things like games that are only available for one weekend, or holiday-specific games, or all other sorts of things that control when you can buy games, and for how much.

Yes this will probably be a problem. Again, it's unclear what the scale of this will be.


I think the PSP Go is more than a gaming system. It's a test. It's a test to see what we, the gaming community, will put up with.

If you feel that way you give Sony a lot more credit than I do! Sony lately, is like The Joker's description of himself....a dog chasing cars. No master plan.



Should it succeed, you can bet your sweet asteroids that we'll see all these great features in the next round of gaming consoles.

Most of them are already in *this* round of consoles, except for the exclusion of physical media.


Every PSP Go purchased is like casting a vote that says, "I hate physical media,

I have an awful lot of physical media to dispute that claim. I do hate UMDs though.



I hate buying used games

I do, and I hate most of the stores that sell them.


, and I will support a gaming system that locks me in to online purchases from the manufacturer.

As long as the price is reasonable, I see no reason I shouldn't give my money to Sony rather than Target or GameStop.


The PSP Go may be a win for casual gamers, but it's a kick in the balls to collectors.

I think the value of our physical collections will increase.



I wouldn't buy one simply out of principle. If I got one for free I'd smash it, draw a picture of a butt on the back, write "kiss this" and mail it back to Sony. And if you think I'm kidding, buy me one for Christmas.

That's what I said about the PS3 when it first came out. I thought the DS was the stupidest idea ever, I thought the Wii would never survive it's own name, I thought the Xbox would come and go in two months, etc. The same passion that drives you to denounce a sytem you never laid your hands on is the one that will ultimately lead you to take it into your arms. In due time. Maybe even by Christmas.

[Icarus Moonsight]

I, for one, have lost all respect for Sony because of this. Flack touches on most the reasons. Sony wants to play Monopoly with you all, they are the banker, they own all the property and all the houses and hotels are already on the board. They just ask that you pay $250 in "real life money" to play. You can't loose though, you can always get more Monopoly money by exchanging real money for it. Some people see a game they can't lose and get excited, forgetting that the nature of the game ensures that they can't win either...

Sure, MS and N have DL-only content and you can choose whether or not to buy it. Here is the deal breaker, all Sony has to do is pull either 3000 units or UMDs off the market (or both) and they have got all the PSP owners by the balls if they want to continue playing new games on the platform.

Sony died the moment "Five-hundred and nintey-nine US dollars" was uttered. Now the corpse flowers are in bloom...

[Kid Ice]

I, for one, have lost all respect for Sony because of this. Flack touches on most the reasons. Sony wants to play Monopoly with you all, they are the banker, they own all the property and all the houses and hotels are already on the board. They just ask that you pay $250 in "real life money" to play. You can't loose though, you can always get more Monopoly money by exchanging real money for it. Some people see a game they can't lose and get excited, forgetting that the nature of the game ensures that they can't win either...

Sure, MS and N have DL-only content and you can choose whether or not to buy it. Here is the deal breaker, all Sony has to do is pull either 3000 units or UMDs off the market (or both) and they have got all the PSP owners by the balls if they want to continue playing new games on the platform.

Sony died the moment "Five-hundred and nintey-nine US dollars" was uttered. Now the corpse flowers are in bloom...

The DRAMA.

It's a handheld video game system that forgoes physical media.

It's a half-assed attempt to compete with Apple.

It's an overpriced, modified version of an existing product.

It is not an attempt to subvert the United States economy.

It is not an attempt to destroy gaming or collecting.

It is a poorly planned attempt by foreigners to extract money from our wallets.

And as far as I know it's only worked on me and Ryan Murphy. So get some sleep.

[Icarus Moonsight]

Knowing that you still went out and bought one?:help:

That's drama.

Taking for granted that Sony is even a tad bit rational at this point, the only conclusion I can come to is the Go is the harbinger of the future of PSP gaming. The omen was Patapon 2. Next thing you know, UMDs are extinct. If this isn't the plan, they are outright mad. Insane or devious, I want no part in either.

[Berserker]

I think the PSP Go is the worst thing to happen for gamers in the history of video games. And here's why.

This whole post is a great read, but I wanted to highlight this part specifically:


I think the PSP Go is more than a gaming system. It's a test. It's a test to see what we, the gaming community, will put up with.

I think this is dead-on. I'm not too worried about this case, because I think we're basically watching Sony botch the execution of this test.

But I also think that the guys we should be worried about (if you're concerned with that sorta thing) are also watching Sony fail. They're looking at how they're failing, they're looking at why they're failing, and they're taking notes, because they want to get it right when it's their turn to bat.

This is only the first test, and it's not going to be the last.

[cue lightning, foreboding music, maniacal laughter etc.]

[Icarus Moonsight]

No, that would be great. I think pure digital distribution can be done well, but the Go is so off target from that, it's pathetic.

[Berserker]

No, that would be great. I think pure digital distribution can be done well, but the Go is so off target from that, it's pathetic.

It's worth pointing out that when I use the word "right" I only mean that in a strictly business sense. On the other hand, "right" in the business sense may require that some consumer concessions be made. We'll see.

[Cryomancer]

I agree with Flack on this all around. The reason the Go is different than XBLA and such, is that my 360 still has retail games available for it. The Go does not and will not, unless it fails so bad they start putting out games on memory stick. Some Xbox DLC and Arcade games even make it to disc eventually.

All of these services that can be shut off are indeed scary. Ask anyone who had a good time with their Sega Channel back in the 90s. There is stuff on there that is GONE, quite possibly forever, never to be played again. This could happen to things on XBLA too, and things on PSN, and so on. Luckily, people pirate the hell out of everything nowadays, so hopefully that stuff will get perserved for future generations somehow. I keep Yaris on my 360's drive just incase I happen to have the last surviving copy in the future.

[Ed Oscuro]

Who do we hate worse: Sony, or GameStop?

I actually wouldn't be surprised if this is a middling success that draws ahead as time goes on, and probably the death of the physical-media portable. It doesn't really matter how many or loud our protestations; there's more (and more compelling) reasons for killing physical formats than keeping them.

[Kid Ice]

Knowing that you still went out and bought one?:help:

That's drama.

None of those things are reasons not to buy it, except that it's overpriced. And I happen to own a number of things that are overpriced, as do all of you who pay $60 for brand new games at retail.

Buying a nice little portable system to kick back on the couch with is as un-dramatic as it gets.

If this system is as poor as all of you claim it is, you have no reason to worry about it causing the disappearance of physical media.

[Icarus Moonsight]

That's not the problem being addressed by me, don't be thick.

[Flack]

Our Wiis, PS3s, 360s, PSPs (not Gos) and DSis all have (at this point in time) hundreds of pieces of exclusive DLC software (and DLC content) that is not, was never and will never be available on any type of physical media or at brick-and-mortar retail. Same distro model as the Go, same lack of used marketplace as the Go, same eventual offline servers fate as Go ... Regardless of the physical media options that those consoles have, you'll NEVER be able to buy Contra Rebirth, Fat Princess, or Castle Crashers at Game Stop and you'll NEVER be able to trade them in for credit.

Potentially true. Lots of originally downloadable games are now being packaged on to discs and being sold in stores (PopCap Arcade Volumes I and II for the 360). Harmonix has released Rock Back Track Packs, which are compilations of previously-available DLC. Not every online game is available via physical media, but the option exists.


I'm curious ... why have we not been/are we not all pitching the same fit over that software? The Go isn't introducing this model into the marketplace, we've all be partaking in it gleefully for YEARS now with nary a peep, and if there's a current company with a gaming DLC distro model that Sony is aping it's Apple with the iPhone (and I'm not seeing thread after thread with people calling that the first sign of the gaming apocalypse either) ... why is the Go whipping the public into such a frenzy?

Well first of all, "we" haven't been gleefully participating in shit (I haven't). Second of all, the Go IS introducing a new model, and that model is that games will now be available ONLY via Son'y online store. THAT is a new model; none of the other systems mentioned including the iPod lock you in to their store as the sole source of content. The PSP Go does. And the reason nobody (including myself) would call iTunes the "first sign of the gaming apocalypse" is because (get ready) the iPhone is not primarily a gaming system.


Is there a GENUINE fear that the Go will single-handedly cause the elimination of physical media across all companies/systems? Seriously?

If it is successful, you betcha. Let's say the Go sells like hotcakes -- that sends the message that gamers will support a new system in which there is no physical media available and all content comes from a single source -- them. This is what "they" have been waiting for, and this is the first proverbial testing of the waters.


After the past 3 years of people absolutely slamming Sony at every turn ...

Sorry, can't be baited by this one. I have a large stack of Sony consoles connected upstairs. Just because I don't like the concept of being locked into DLC, don't group me in with the zealots.


Even IF Sony went DLC only with ALL of their consoles in the next Gen (which we know isn't going to happen) ... what would make anybody think that Microsoft or Nintendo would follow suit? Isn't Sony in "last place" in the "console warz"? Hasn't Sony lost the respect of their peers and programmers with overly complex hardware architectures and alienated their fans with prohibitive pricing and lack of quality software?

Again, first of all, you DON'T know that that's not going to happen. Did you know that the PSP Go was going to happen? I didn't. I thought people were going to be able to convert their old games (then again, I believed the whole "backwards compatible" story we got this gen). As for nobody following Sony ... I think we've learned that the video game market is pretty fickle, and anyone and everyone is willing to follow whoever the leader is. Based on the last gen (Xbox/PS2/Gamecube) who would have thought this gen both Sony and Microsoft would be scurrying around trying to copy Nintendo's controller system? Somebody's gotta be first, and if it's successful, everyone else will follow.

[Ed Oscuro]

Buying a nice little portable system to kick back on the couch with is as un-dramatic as it gets.
When you download your games, you're downloading CO-wait, that doesn't work here. Dangit, how am I going to provoke rage and suffering now? Will I have to resort to emotes, perhaps?

@ Icarus:
You try to make the point that the $250 buy-in for the *console* is akin to playing Monopoly, but you're getting something physical for that amount. We have yet to see how the games will be priced, but they won't be $250.

I'm not one to bank on digital distribution lowering at-launch prices, but it does finally provide a stable continuing retail channel - and if Steam is any guide, the possibility of lowered non-secondhand prices afterward.

As somebody who has been dicked around by attempting to buy PC games at lower than retail off the secondhand market (via registered CD keys), this is not a negative development in all respects.


[...] games will now be available ONLY via Son'y online store. THAT is a new model; none of the other systems mentioned including the iPod lock you in to their store as the sole source of content. The PSP Go does. And the reason nobody (including myself) would call iTunes the "first sign of the gaming apocalypse" is because (get ready) the iPhone is not primarily a gaming system.
I think there's a couple points you've got wrong here, Flack. First off, I'm sure you'll be able to load your own *media* onto the Go, same as before. The idea of Sony being the sole *game* provider is an idea that hearkens back to the beginning of games consoles, not controversial. Everybody's been cracking down or otherwise making life difficult for homebrew software, no story.

A more on-point comparison would be between the iPhone and the Go. The iPhone is still not "primarily" a gaming machine, but lots of people use it in place of a portable computer, and it has a surprisingly large number of games, so why you chose the iPod instead is beyond me. We've all seen multiple times how Apple's being the gatekeeper for programs (games and other content) doesn't always work out for the best, but that's not hampered its prospects for being a successful gaming machine. Apple indeed 'locks you in to their store,' but some applications are free; again, no story.

[Flack]

I had an iPod years ago and suffered through all kinds of silliness in the way it handled my music collection. If your topic read "I think the iPod is the worst thing to happen to listeners in the history of music" you'd have far more credibility....that thing has been a source of frustration for what, 8 or 9 years now? The PSPgo came out yesterday and it's the worst thing to happen to video games?

I used the iPod as an example. I guess I am in the minority here and have never seen the iPod as a primarily gaming device. Do I think iTunes is a sucky monopoly? Yes. I think Apple did a great job of making a devilishly addictive piece of hardware, which then forces people into their delivery system. Never in my life have I heard a single person say, "man I gotta buy me an iPod because I love iTunes so fucking much!" It's the other way around. Do I hate the way artists are locked into iTunes? Yes. I can't tell you how many people have asked me to recommend to them an mp3 player "other than the iPod". I think the difference here is that Apple made an awesome piece of hardware that then sells their delivery system. I hate Apple with a passion and I own an iPod Touch and am considering an iPhone. On the other hand, there's nothing tempting to me about the Go -- by all accounts, other than the sliding screen, it's inferior (or at best, equal) to its predecessor in every way.


There are older titles on PSN at discounted prices. Flack, Madden? When's the last time you played a Madden game? There's an institution that had already done its fair share of damage to gaming before anyone thought of the Go. [...] And this will be "worst thing to happen for gamers in the history of video games?" Dude, fuck Madden.

I should have made it more clear that I was arbitrarily pulling Madden out of the air as an example of a franchise game. If you don't like that series, replace it with the franchise of your choosing -- Motostorm, Need for Speed, etc.


Well I won't miss GameStop if that's where this is going. I don't see this retail competition. WalMart, Target, KMart, they all have the same stuff at more or less the same price. Sure they may have different junk in their bargain bins. Most of that stuff is shovelware anyway.

Will you miss garage sales? Thrift store? Having a collection of games in display in your game room? I will. I was in Vintage Stock last night browsing PS3 games. They have a lot for $60 and then a lot of trade-ins for $30. Kiss that goodbye. And also, the reason many of those games are the same price at Walmart, Target and K-Mart is because they are all in competition with one another. If Walmart was the only store allowed to sell video games in a given town, don't you think the price would go up?


Here's a real world example. Tonight, I downloaded Activision Hits for $15. This is a game that, for over a year while I owned a PSP, I was not able to find in a retail store, used game store, a buddy's tradebox, etc. What do you think the MSRP of this game was when it came out? At least 20 or 30 bucks right? So I think I paid I fair price. No I didn't get it from a flea market gypsy for a dollar. But maybe Dave Crane and company will see a little of my $15? I don't think that's a bad thing.

Awesome -- can I borrow it when you're done? And also in all fairness, you could have done a bit more searching; it's available on eBay for $10 BIN (Link (http://cgi.ebay.com/Activision-Hits-Remixed-PSP-Excellent-Condition_W0QQitemZ140349484721QQcmdZViewItemQQptZ Video_Games_Games?hash=item20ad7b2eb1&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14#ht_573wt_1165))


I have an awful lot of physical media to dispute that claim. I do hate UMDs though.

Again let me clarify; I don't think the PSP Go will in any way, shape or form affect the games you currently have sitting on your shelves. What I do think is, if this delivery system and the forgoing of physical media succeeds, then future consoles will follow. The good news for all of us, we'll be able to quit buying shelves to display our collections on.


That's what I said about the PS3 when it first came out. I thought the DS was the stupidest idea ever, I thought the Wii would never survive it's own name, I thought the Xbox would come and go in two months, etc. The same passion that drives you to denounce a sytem you never laid your hands on is the one that will ultimately lead you to take it into your arms. In due time. Maybe even by Christmas.

I don't have anything against the PSP in general. A co-worker brought his to work once and I was instantly impressed by the screen quality. Really all I've ever wanted in a portable system is the ability to play the first Tony Hawk (PSX) on the go, which the PSP would do. I'm impressed by the unit's processing power; the fact that it handles PSX emulation is, in such a small package, pretty unbelievable.

It's not the system I hate, it's the idea of a monopolized source of purchasing games and the complete lack of physical media. I will never, EVER, own a system that tries to do that. While I like playing games, I like collecting them too, something the Go will never support. Call me the old "get off my lawn" guy, but if the next generation of consoles turns out to be download only, then I'll bow out gracefully and stick to my little pieces of plastic. I don't give a shit what they're worth; they're mine.

[Ed Oscuro]

It's not the system I hate, it's the idea of a monopolized source of purchasing games and the complete lack of physical media.
Well, we've got two major handheld players doing it now (at least; there may be more if Microsoft's Zune or something else joins in).

I'm hoping that the idea of "digital rights" will be visited in the courts so as to eventually give consumers better protection against being asked to repay for the same content repeatedly over multiple hardware generations, but there still are benefits, some of which I mentioned in my edit at the end of my post immediately above.

[Flack]

I think there's a couple points you've got wrong here, Flack. First off, I'm sure you'll be able to load your own *media* onto the Go, same as before. The idea of Sony being the sole *game* provider is an idea that hearkens back to the beginning of games consoles, not controversial. Everybody's been cracking down or otherwise making life difficult for homebrew software, no story.

I'll try one more time. It IS controversial, because even though Nintendo wanted to be the sole providers of NES carts, you didn't have to buy them directly from the Nintendo Store. Yes Nintendo manufactured NES carts, but you could still buy them at Walmart. Or Funcoland. Or Garage Sales. Or other places besides Nintendoland.


A more on-point comparison would be between the iPhone and the Go. The iPhone is still not "primarily" a gaming machine, but lots of people use it in place of a portable computer, and it has a surprisingly large number of games, so why you chose the iPod instead is beyond me. We've all seen multiple times how Apple's being the gatekeeper for programs (games and other content) doesn't always work out for the best, but that's not hampered its prospects for being a successful gaming machine. Apple indeed 'locks you in to their store,' but some applications are free; again, no story.

I'm starting to wish I hadn't mentioned the iPod, because now everybody wants to talk about the iPod. Let's start another thread and talk about how evil iPods/iTunes/Apple is and I will gladly join in.

Let me re-explain my analogy: The iPod, in this analogy, is a music playing device. If you want to buy mp3s for your iPod, you have to go through iTunes. But even with that system in place, you have the ability to buy mp3s elsewhere and copy them over to your iPod. I'm not talking about games, or hacking the iPod, or anything else like that. I'm saying as a music playing device, even though iTunes is the primary source of music, you still have the option of getting music elsewhere and using it with your device. Unless I'm missing something in the details, the PSP Go does not allow you to buy games elsewhere and put them on your PSP.

[Ed Oscuro]

I said iPhone, Flack.

[RPG_Fanatic]

All of these services that can be shut off are indeed scary. Ask anyone who had a good time with their Sega Channel back in the 90s. There is stuff on there that is GONE, quite possibly forever, never to be played again. This could happen to things on XBLA too, and things on PSN, and so on.

That's what I was thinking. You know ONE day they will shut it down just like the Sega channel. Then what? What if your Machine takes a shit, you can't go get a new one and play the games you had before. How are you going to play in ten to twenty years from now if it breaks and no store. You know were all retro playing people here.

[darkwingduck13]

Continuing in the food for thought category:

Our Wiis, PS3s, 360s, PSPs (not Gos) and DSis all have (at this point in time) hundreds of pieces of exclusive DLC software (and DLC content) that is not, was never and will never be available on any type of physical media or at brick-and-mortar retail.

Same distro model as the Go, same lack of used marketplace as the Go, same eventual offline servers fate as Go ...

Regardless of the physical media options that those consoles have, you'll NEVER be able to buy Contra Rebirth, Fat Princess, or Castle Crashers at Game Stop and you'll NEVER be able to trade them in for credit.

I'm curious ... why have we not been/are we not all pitching the same fit over that software?

The Go isn't introducing this model into the marketplace, we've all be partaking in it gleefully for YEARS now with nary a peep, and if there's a current company with a gaming DLC distro model that Sony is aping it's Apple with the iPhone (and I'm not seeing thread after thread with people calling that the first sign of the gaming apocalypse either) ... why is the Go whipping the public into such a frenzy?

Is there a GENUINE fear that the Go will single-handedly cause the elimination of physical media across all companies/systems? Seriously?


I'm with Flack on the point that this whole thing is just a test to see what people will put up with and how much right to ownership they can take away. The difference between this and the DLC for the other consoles is that the other consoles still play physical media. With the PSP Go, Sony has released a system that is incapable of playing anything other than whatever files the establishment will let you play. Do you really think they'll continue making the vanilla PSP if people are willing to accept the crippled PSP Go? Granted, I bet it'll sell like hotcakes once it gets cracked wide open. People want that "sexy" form factor!



After the past 3 years of people absolutely slamming Sony at every turn, why is there such palpable fear that they would have that kind of far-reaching influence with a device that's already been heralded as an expensive failure by legit gaming press?

Even IF Sony went DLC only with ALL of their consoles in the next Gen (which we know isn't going to happen) ... what would make anybody think that Microsoft or Nintendo would follow suit? Isn't Sony in "last place" in the "console warz"? Hasn't Sony lost the respect of their peers and programmers with overly complex hardware architectures and alienated their fans with prohibitive pricing and lack of quality software?

Because companies tend to have one thing in common: they all love money. If the general gaming public accepts this thing, and Sony starts making money hand over fist by cutting out the middle man without significantly dropping prices, you can bet your sweet ass the others will start to follow suit, probably Microsoft first...but you already know Nintendo loves to take your money multiple times too given their track history.

All of your stuff about what people think of Sony and the console wars in this quoted post is just smokescreen. In terms of this one specific issue, it doesn't matter which company does it. If it succeeds, it would be borderline retarded to think that others wouldn't follow suit.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

I said iPhone, Flack.

I also said iPhone. I assume Flack doesn't have one and is un aware of the how much the Go is aping the app store situation (both in delivery style and hoping for similar profits)

It seems that that point was completely missed. In the response, which is understandable if one has only seen the utterly lame gaming selection on a standard wheel iPod.

[Ed Oscuro]

So, I just wanted to leave my ideas for why the Go may be likely to fail, and compare those to other solutions:

- Limited availability. The online-only rollout, given the nature of the device, makes more sense than a New York test launch. It's still a test launch, though; while I doubt the Go will be a runaway success like the NES was, it's perfect for ensuring that few people will buy it who don't have 'net access. That accounts for how many of us now? There we go. For once, the online-only sales make perfect sense.

- No BC. The original PSP hasn't done as badly as it often seems to have, but it's not a runaway success, especially software-wise. Hardware sales: 55M, best-selling single software title: 3.5M. The DS: 107M hardware, 22M software. Aside from the possibility that Sony users might mix and match genres much more than DS users (which seems unlikely), it seems fair to suspect that a lot of PSP users are already getting their games from other sources. A weak software library, another possibility, causing people not to become repeat customers has nothing to do with BC at all. Of course, with the Go apparently hacked, the situation could always repeat itself. I think this is less of an issue than others that follow, not only because the iPhone has been hit by many complaints exactly like those raised by Flack.

- Sony's brand is already in trouble and they don't have a well-publicized music and movie digital delivery system (yet - I assume they do have one by now). This is in no small part because before they went with a white elephant of a content system, the amazing lousy UMD. No doubt the PS3's own backwards compatibility troubles haven't helped it greatly, but it's starting to gain a footing on the merits of its own library. On this note, the Go sorely needs a great library and affordable games - both of which digital distribution go a short ways towards providing, especially considering games can be price slashed and kept stocked on "digital shelves" indefinitely. Compare that to the poor showing at retail for the PSP.

- It's just a gaming machine. Times is tough, and people are more likely to get a device that's also a phone, or a PMP, or a GPS; anything but just a gaming machine. The Go may work as a sort of iPod replacement, but it's not well-suited to that branding thus far, and Sony doesn't have a strong iTunes analogue. The main problem is that the Go is more of a luxury than the iPhone - which has only sold less than half the units of the Go - if you had to make a choice now, which would it be? Add to that the PSP has been out since roughly Q1 2005, with the iPhone only around since 2007. On this note, the Go's issue may well become that other systems end up doing it better. Microsoft could muscle in (seems unlikely, but possible and somewhat desirable if they can manage it) or the iPhone's growing library of games could prove an unmatchable competitor.

I would not be at all surprised if the Go is a steady performer. Aside from the point that it's reportedly been hacked already (whoops), digital distribution has been here for a long while and it will be here for the foreseeable future. I am certain that there were people who saw the writing on the wall back in 2004, possibly even discussion to that effect here. Sony couldn't have released a digital distribution-only Go back in 2004, but things have changed in half a decade.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

I'm with Flack on the point that this whole thing is just a test to see what people will put up with and how much right to ownership they can take away. The difference between this and the DLC for the other consoles is that the other consoles still play physical media. With the PSP Go, Sony has released a system that is incapable of playing anything other than whatever files the establishment will let you play. Do you really think they'll continue making the vanilla PSP if people are willing to accept the crippled PSP Go? Granted, I bet it'll sell like hotcakes once it gets cracked wide open. People want that "sexy" form factor!



Because companies tend to have one thing in common: they all love money. If the general gaming public accepts this thing, and Sony starts making money hand over fist by cutting out the middle man without significantly dropping prices, you can bet your sweet ass the others will start to follow suit, probably Microsoft first...but you already know Nintendo loves to take your money multiple times too given their track history.

All of your stuff about what people think of Sony and the console wars in this quoted post is just smokescreen. In terms of this one specific issue, it doesn't matter which company does it. If it succeeds, it would be borderline retarded to think that others wouldn't follow suit.

lol

It's not "smokescreen", it's me taking the "popular opinion" that has been tossed around on the interwebs since both the PSP and PS3 both launched respectively and attempting to apply them in a thread which SHOULD squarely fall into that opinion.

With the exception of a few trying to rationalize the existence of Go in the marketplace, there's nothing but anti-Sony rhetoric being thrown around right down to "evil empire"/"out to get us all" paranoia.

Again, I REALLY DO think the system is going to fail, or at the very least not be successful enough to sway Sony into taking an ALL-DLC approach in the future. Yeah, the market is fickle and people like new ideas ... but if I had to make a wager I'd say that we'll still have physical media in the next gen PSP and PS4 systems.

And let's take another Frankie food-for-thought look at another interesting point of interest/fear about the PSP and DLC games.

UNLIKE physical UMD media, you CAN legally dump and "back up" your PSN DLC game files to physical media. While they are tied to both your PSN account and the active hardware that they were downloaded to (PSP or PS3) you can do it openly via both systems' onboard operating systems ... so ... while offline servers are an eventuality in the future, IF Sony doesn't provide some type of legacy contingency for past PSN purchases to continue into eternity (hey we can all dream) you CAN archive them all with no restrictions, and best/worst case scenario, 30 years from now, if you still have that system - you replace the laser, battery, etc. on the system that were originally downloaded, likely on on the cheap (by that time replacement parts and repair tutorials will be a plenty as they typically are for all systems) and copy over your PSN games which you've archived on your multi-terabyte archive drive.

See ... I'm REALLY not trying to go against everybody's grain with these things - I'm just frigging crusading for rationality based on the history that's squarely in front of our noses.

When it comes to "classic gaming" ALL things are possible, there are intrepid people out there that will always ensure that we'll never completely "lose" the ability to play our old things.

If the fear in your heart stems from physical media at brick and mortar giving up the ghost, and companies like Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo fail to maintain their servers, things will be archived by the future "classic gaming" community, hackers will obliterate encryptions or create hardware that allows us run our backups, and Asia will keep us stocked with back up parts to keep our old beasts running ...

... and if you can't handle the thought of living in a gaming world where in the far future you can't put a box on a shelf, well, I'm truly sorry that I won't have an opportunity to meet you online in a game of Street Fighter 12, Call of Duty 43 or Splendiferous Katamari, because for me - it's all about playing the game, not collecting the game (not that I don't collect, I do, but in every case with the intention of playing).

I've said it before, as much as I'm a lover of the classic I'm a fucking futurist baby - show me a way to do it faster, better, smoother and more comfortably and I'm there. The method of delivery doesn't bother me one bit, and I have no fears because I've paid close enough attention to the history of how this community keeps classic things "running" in one way or another. I'm not scared that I'll lose it all forever ... somebody will either make it work again or allow me to run it on something else.

That's all I really can say on the matter. You're all absolutely entitled to your opinions, and I don't have an ounce of animosity over anybody that thinks ill of Sony or the Go, but I'm signing out on this discussion on those thoughts, I don't think I could be any more succinct on the subject or about my feelings.

[TonyTheTiger]

UNLIKE physical UMD media, you CAN legally dump and "back up" your PSN DLC game files to physical media. While they are tied to both your PSN account and the active hardware that they were downloaded to (PSP or PS3) you can do it openly via both systems' onboard operating systems ... so ... while offline servers are an eventuality in the future, IF Sony doesn't provide some type of legacy contingency for past PSN purchases to continue into eternity (hey we can all dream) you CAN archive them all with no restrictions, and best/worst case scenario, 30 years from now, if you still have that system - you replace the laser, battery, etc. on the system that were originally downloaded, likely on on the cheap (by that time replacement parts and repair tutorials will be a plenty as they typically are for all systems) and copy over your PSN games which you've archived on your multi-terabyte archive drive.

It really is probably an ultimately unfounded fear based more on "they're coming to get us" paranoia than anything else. We all know nothing lasts forever. Eventually even our carts and discs are going to stop working one day. Whether or not that happens within our lifetime remains to be seen but it is an inevitability. If anything allows Super Mario Bros. to live on past the day every cartridge turns to dust it will probably be something like emulation. For that reason, DLC actually might be able to last longer than physical media because by the time the systems die off and these companies no longer care about them they'll inevitably be hacked to all hell in such a way that the DLC will be able to be used and probably distributed around rather easily. I don't think we'll ever find ourselves in a position where we pop a still working Mega Man 5 cartridge into a still working NES and woefully think, "I wish Mega Man 9 still existed."

That being said, I don't think we'll be saying goodbye to physical media anytime soon. There are a lot of barriers.

[kupomogli]

I don't think people really think about the "Sony getting rid of UMD."

I think it's the fact because it's another PSP model, not a PSP2, no second analog, and the fact that you can't use UMDs. Most of the people bitching probably don't have UMDs to begin with because they most likely pirate the games(people at other sites I go to revolving PSP Homebrew and Emulators, etc.)

So yeah.

One thing I wonder for those people who own a downgraded PSP. If the system has such shitty games, why praise that another custom firmware was released and how you're going to download iso/cso files of the latest titles? I don't know about you guys, but I don't like playing games that I'll receive no enjoyment from.

But yeah. These people bitch about the system, but they download pretty much everything the system has to offer. While this really wasn't about the Go, the system is pretty much the same, it's the same "OMG THIS SUCKS," but most likely if the game ever becomes homebrew compatible, these same people will probably have the Go and do the same thing they've been doing with the original. "OMG THIS GAEM SUX. AHAHAHHA, DARK ALEX RELEASED 8.45M33-459. FUCK YOU SONY!!! I GO DOWNLOAD ALL YUR GAMEZ NOW!!!"

[Icarus Moonsight]

Pure digital can work, but it is, in it's nature, a different beast than retail physical games. For one thing, size matters. ~1GB is still too large of a file for transfer as far as convenience goes. The other thing to consider is the types of games that do well in digital distribution so far. Ports or emulated releases from past systems, puzzlers are particular well suited and so are new, skinned takes on older style games. Anyone with a PSP should have Super Stardust Portable... It's Asteroids, Robotron and other such classics in one cohesive and inexpensive package. Then you have price. You know why I like some racing games? Because I can't afford to own 50 frakkin cars! People will pay $20 to $60 for a tangible object, but for something abstract, even if it's the same thing, the perception of value is reduced. That's what leaves me to beleive that UMDs are on a course of planned obsolescence. Sony has outright stated that they have no plans to change their new digital releases from the retail sticker price. If they keep UMDs, that's insane. Fry's often times has special prices on new releases, $2-$8 sometimes $10 below MSRP the day they are released and maybe extending through the weekend or the entire week. Sony is going to have to pull UMDs because the market will react negatively to a monopoly distribution structure and will be even more likely to drop prices.

I like the Go form factor. Although, I think it was a missed opportunity to go clamshell hinge rather than the slide mech so the screen would be protected. I will be honest here -- If I find a unit used, in the future, that has a boatload of content already on it, I'll consider buying one then. Through the very means Sony so despirately wants to crush. In that case, I'll have my cake and eat it too. At that point, it can be as much of a lie as they want it to be. :p