The Nickel & Dime Generation [Slashdot]

[DP ServBot]

Phaethon360 sends in a piece that looks at how quickly game costs can add up these days, now that DLC, microtransactions and standalone expansions are commonplace, writing, "If you were trying to the think of the most expensive games to play, Rock Band or a monthly-fee MMORPG would come to mind. But Halo 3 is right up there, too." It's reminiscent of a recent post at IncGamers where the author tallied up how much he'd spent on World of Warcraft over the past several years, and was astonished to realize it numbered in the thousands of dollars.http://games.slashdot.org/slashdot-it.pl?from=rss&op=image&style=h0&sid=09/09/29/0448213 (http://games.slashdot.org/story/09/09/29/0448213/The-Nickel-amp-Dime-Generation?from=rss)
Read more of this story (http://games.slashdot.org/story/09/09/29/0448213/The-Nickel-amp-Dime-Generation?from=rss) at Slashdot.
http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~at/byZhKEGomrVam_m5LRs4WEWYbIw/0/di</img> (http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~at/byZhKEGomrVam_m5LRs4WEWYbIw/0/da)
http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~at/byZhKEGomrVam_m5LRs4WEWYbIw/1/di</img> (http://feedads.g.doubleclick.net/~at/byZhKEGomrVam_m5LRs4WEWYbIw/1/da)
http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/Slashdot/slashdotGames/~4/QZ0iAggwxaw

More... (http://rss.slashdot.org/~r/Slashdot/slashdotGames/~3/QZ0iAggwxaw/The-Nickel-amp-Dime-Generation)

[chicnstu]

I respect that many people have the money and don't mind paying $200 a year to play these MMOs. But, I don't want to pay $15 a month after I've paid $60 for the game. People say that MMOs have monthly fees because they cost so much to make and set up the servers. Grand Theft Auto IV cost $100,000,000 to make and they aren't charging me monthly to keep playing the game online. Did Final Fantasy XI cost that much to make? If not, why are they charging monthly fees? Does it cost a lot to keep the servers going?

[jcalder8]

I really don't understand how they bring up Halo 3, there is no monthly fee for that game and it's not they they are bringing out weekly maps at $5 each or anything.

[brykasch]

I respect that many people have the money and don't mind paying $200 a year to play these MMOs. But, I don't want to pay $15 a month after I've paid $60 for the game. People say that MMOs have monthly fees because they cost so much to make and set up the servers. Grand Theft Auto IV cost $100,000,000 to make and they aren't charging me monthly to keep playing the game online. Did Final Fantasy XI cost that much to make? If not, why are they charging monthly fees? Does it cost a lot to keep the servers going?

No offense but there's a big difference between wow and gta. ffXI has fees as well so don't know what your talking about there. If you want I could break it down but while the dev costs of gta may have been huge they don't have to do much to maintain online presence.

[kedawa]

Most MMOs are monthly fee only anyway.
DLC and microtransactions are like mobile ringtones. I think it's a retarded way to spend money but there's a market for it anyway.

[Ed Oscuro]

I really don't understand how they bring up Halo 3, there is no monthly fee for that game and it's not they they are bringing out weekly maps at $5 each or anything.
Try reading the article next time?


* Halo 3 (standard retail SKU): $60 USD
* Heroic Map Pack (DLC): $10; 800 Microsoft Points
* Legendary Map Pack (DLC): $10; 800 Microsoft Points
* Mythic Map Pack (DLC): $10; 800 Microsoft Points
* Halo 3 ODST (standard retail SKU): $60 USD
* Two years of Xbox Live: $100 USD
* Total cost: $250

[norkusa]

I don't have any problems with MMO's since you know what you're getting into before you buy the game. It's the games like Halo 3 and Call Of Duty that loose my interest with the constant stream of semi-required DLC.

For instance, I just got World At War a couple months ago. Right away, I go on Live to find a few online games. After waiting in the lobby 3-4 minutes for the match to start up, I get booted as soon as it loads because I don't have the required map. So I try again and it does the same thing. And again & again until I finally find a game that I can join. Same thing happens over and over whenever I want to play online. It feels like I'm being punished for not buying the DLC.

I just paid $50 for the game and they want me to spend another $30 for the maps so I can play online? Fuck that. I ended up selling a few weeks later after. Now I just play Battlefield 1943.

[ScourDX]

DLC promote more corporate greed and less content within the purchased game. Worst part is developer charge DLC for unlocking gaming content. IMO that should be part of the purchased game.

[garagesaleking!!]

ya cod waw makes me mad too, they stick you in a game where you dont have the maps and then take you to the screen to buy them, they are really trying to pish you to buy them. They need to combine all 3 map packs for $10 and ill buy em.

[Darren870]

Try reading the article next time?

You can't really include map packs and ODST. ODST is a separate game. Even if you say its part of Halo 3, well then it comes with all those map packs for free.

[jcalder8]

Try reading the article next time?
Thanks, I read the wrong article, I went back and read the other one.

I like how he starts off complaining that the publishers are charging too much for the games. Anyone else remember spending ~100 for N64 games?

I stopped reading after the second line and I have no real interest to continue.

[duffmanth]

I absolutely hate paying for DLC. The amount of DLC for some games costs more than the initial $60 for the game itself when you add it all up. Little Big Planet and Burnout Paradise come to mind, charging you $2, $5, $10, or whatever for a single costume or car! Fuck that! It's sad, but this will probably become more the norm as time goes on though. ALL DLC should be free for any game after paying $60 for it!

As far as paying monthly or yearly fees for MMO's and other online services, I suppose it depends on how much you use the service and what you're willing to spend? I read sometimes about people complaining about paying $50 for an annual Xbox Live subscription fee and shake my head. That's nothing stretched out over a year, it's like $4/month. i would gladly pay a modest fee like that if it meant the service was going to be that much better.

[norkusa]

ya cod waw makes me mad too, they stick you in a game where you dont have the maps and then take you to the screen to buy them, they are really trying to pish you to buy them. They need to combine all 3 map packs for $10 and ill buy em.

Do you know what the ratio of free maps compared to DLC maps is in WaW? I think I counted 10 maps total for DLC but I only remember playing on 3 or 4 different maps (I was only joining big team battles though).

Regardless, it's a ridiculous amount of DLC for a game that hasn't even been out for a year yet. They probably had most of the maps finished before the game was released and held them back for DLC.

[garagesaleking!!]

Do you know what the ratio of free maps compared to DLC maps is in WaW? I think I counted 10 maps total for DLC but I only remember playing on 3 or 4 different maps (I was only joining big team battles though).

Regardless, it's a ridiculous amount of DLC for a game that hasn't even been out for a year yet. They probably had most of the maps finished before the game was released and held them back for DLC.

exactly, you get 1 nazi zombie map included on the disc, now they have 3 more that all have to be payed for, and as far as local multiplayer you have about 7 or 8 maps, then the map packs about the double the maps if you buy them.

[chicnstu]

No offense but there's a big difference between wow and gta. ffXI has fees as well so don't know what your talking about there. If you want I could break it down but while the dev costs of gta may have been huge they don't have to do much to maintain online presence.

No offense, but go back and read my post again. I said FFXI has fees, that was the point of my post. I was asking a lot of questions trying to learn how MMOs work, I wasn't being rude and critisizing MMO fees. I get this a lot, I intend for my posts and questions to seem nice then someone quotes me and acts like I insulted them.

Also, I remember you, I traded with you once and then you left DP...or something...

[carlcarlson]

Do you know what the ratio of free maps compared to DLC maps is in WaW? I think I counted 10 maps total for DLC but I only remember playing on 3 or 4 different maps (I was only joining big team battles though).

Regardless, it's a ridiculous amount of DLC for a game that hasn't even been out for a year yet. They probably had most of the maps finished before the game was released and held them back for DLC.

There are 13 maps on the disc and one zombie map. The DLC adds 9 regular maps and three more zombie maps. And it's not like you're required to buy them, there are plenty of games for vanilla WaW (in my experience). Are you playing on the PS3? I don't think I've ever waited to join a game on Live.

Having said all of that, they did churn out map pack three pretty soon after two. I don't mind getting a few new maps every couple of months to keep things fresh, but when they start coming out so close together I begin to feel a bit taken.

[Porksta]

The problem with Halo 3 is that you can't really play online without every map pack. Matchmaking just doesn't work unless you have every map.

[chrisbid]

i have a better term for it

the chrisbid will not be buying video games generation :)

[norkusa]

There are 13 maps on the disc and one zombie map. The DLC adds 9 regular maps and three more zombie maps. And it's not like you're required to buy them, there are plenty of games for vanilla WaW (in my experience). Are you playing on the PS3? I don't think I've ever waited to join a game on Live.

Yeah, I know you're not required to buy the maps but it's at the point where you almost have to if you don't want to wait forever for a non-DLC map to be selected. I don't mind DLC. I bought the map packs for COD4 and played them to death. It's when they make it difficult for non-DLC'ers to play I have a problem with it.

Halo 3 is pretty bad with it too. Back of the game box says "Multiplayer 2-16" but the 16 player Big Team games are closed if you don't have the DLC maps. And Team SWAT games are closed for non-DLC people too. So that's my two favorite game types that I can't access anymore.

My point is DLC should be entirely optional and shouldn't interfere with gameplay, online or off.

[brykasch]

No offense, but go back and read my post again. I said FFXI has fees, that was the point of my post. I was asking a lot of questions trying to learn how MMOs work, I wasn't being rude and critisizing MMO fees. I get this a lot, I intend for my posts and questions to seem nice then someone quotes me and acts like I insulted them.

Also, I remember you, I traded with you once and then you left DP...or something...

( I wasn't acting like you insulted me but the complaints about monthly fees get hashed around ALOT)

After rereading your post I see where your coming from more, at first it seemed like the same 'ol complaint of why am I spending this money for a fee etc that I see a lot of.

From launch till around 2008 it cost about 200 million according to an article on kotaku. Now that's just maintenance, not the original development costs, costs for creation of both expansion packs etc

http://kotaku.com/5050300/how-much-has-wow-cost-blizzard-since-2004

there's another artical on wow.com that i can't seem to find, but it really breaks everythign down. I am not saying they arent making a tidy profit, they are, but the costs of maintaining a game for multiple regions, multiple versions ( each patch has to be done for each version of the game etc), not to mention the dev costs for future content adds up pretty quickly. they also take a big loss on blizzcon as well ( yes you read that right)

Now if your not playing a mmo but a couple hours a month the cost to benefit ration isn't going to be in your favor, but for those that do its a much cheaper form of entertainment then most things out there.

But as an aside I never left DP, I do have periods where I don't post much mainly because of rl in the way:)

[Jorpho]

I predict that we will be seeing articles just like this for years to come.

[IcBlUsCrN]

so whats the consensus do they have dlc before the game is released? i think so, i also think its crap. I dont have XBL or the means of getting it but i have raiden 4 in order to get new ships i have to pay lol they could have made it unlockable instead..
Do pc games have the same thing? if not they might be going int he same direction well see how those gamers take it as there a fickle bunch.

[kupomogli]

so whats the consensus do they have dlc before the game is released?

Yeah. That's retarded. You can purchase the DLC the same day the game is released.

The reason for DLC is to add additional stuff to make the game experience better after the game is released, not to fuck customers over in giving them incomplete games and the only way you can get a complete copy is to purchase the download content that is offered on day one.

Capcom isn't the biggest offender, but the most piece of shit company that's did it. Resident Evil 5 DLC is ON THE DISC, which you're doing nothing more than the pay an outrageous price to unlock it. Basically Capcom is cheating Sony by keeping the file size downloaded as small as possible, while also fucking over customers by forcing us to buy content that should have came with the fucking game to begin with.

[chicnstu]

Now if your not playing a mmo but a couple hours a month the cost to benefit ration isn't going to be in your favor, but for those that do its a much cheaper form of entertainment then most things out there.

That makes sense. If someone pays $200 per year to play WoW and spends three hours a day for that year they are getting more play time for their money than if they were to buy three $60 games.
______________________________

About DLC. The problem that developers have to figure out is when to release DLC. If they release it too early people think they are ripping them off by charging for DLC made during the the game's development time. If they release it too late, people have already moved onto another game.

Bioware is saying they'll have DLC available early and often for Dragon Age. They have said that the DLC they are working on is being made by a different team and isn't part of the DA budget. Should what that team has finished be included on the disc?

[ScourDX]

Do pc games have the same thing?

PC never had this issue. Typically PC game addon (mods) are completely free and user can share their own creation online without paying anything. Take a look at Fallout 3 & Oblivion PC community.

The game designer addon (PC gamer refer them as expansion) usually cost money. Some of the developer release them for free. They aren't bad because a lot of content gets added like new levels & gameplay unlike DLC which only give you small upgrade content.

[kedawa]

and that's why I don't own any current cosoles and do the lion's share of my gaming on the PC.

[The 1 2 P]

As long as you can be patient you can avoid some of the extra fees. For instance, I just purchased the "game of the year" edition of Gears of War 2. For $20 I got the game, all 19 multiplayer maps and the extra campaign mission. Had I bought the game at launch, the extra map packs and the extra campaign mode I would have spent around $100 total, if not more. Despite the fact that I have absolutely no patience, it pays to wait sometimes.

[brykasch]

I guess it really all boils down to what your willing to pay for and what your not, if enough people vote with their pocketbook it could change back or even go more towards micro transactions.

[brykasch]

That makes sense. If someone pays $200 per year to play WoW and spends three hours a day for that year they are getting more play time for their money than if they were to buy three $60 games.
______________________________

About DLC. The problem that developers have to figure out is when to release DLC. If they release it too early people think they are ripping them off by charging for DLC made during the the game's development time. If they release it too late, people have already moved onto another game.

Bioware is saying they'll have DLC available early and often for Dragon Age. They have said that the DLC they are working on is being made by a different team and isn't part of the DA budget. Should what that team has finished be included on the disc?


Yeah one of the biggest things about DLC is some folks do think that companies are removing game play that was originally in a game and holding it back for DLC. I don't think that's the case at all. But I do think some of the content available isn't worth squat, I do research before I make any purchase.

[brykasch]

Its really about getting a return on the investment in the end. games cost a ass ton of money to make for the big titles. Having DLC released later on brings a game back to the collective senses and can bring a few more purchases of a game long after a release.

[Graham Mitchell]

Here's an ironic story for you. I bought a couple extra multiplayer map packs for Killzone 2 on the PS3 and you know what? Nobody plays them. I haven't ever seen a soul in any of these additional maps. I assumed that people won't buy these new maps when there's plenty to do on the disc. I actually made a pact with my self to not buy multiplayer maps anymore because nobody uses them, and you'll never get any mileage out of them.

[Jorpho]

(Whoops, wrong thread)

[Zthun]

I'm going to reiterate what has already been said (well, mostly).

DLC should be optional DOWNLOADABLE CONTENT not downloadable serial keys. The purpose of DLC's should be to extend the game, not unlock things on the disc. Making them required is also bull shit. DLC is nice to have, but making them required or making them DLSKs deletes the original purpose.


Yeah one of the biggest things about DLC is some folks do think that companies are removing game play that was originally in a game and holding it back for DLC. I don't think that's the case at all. But I do think some of the content available isn't worth squat, I do research before I make any purchase.

To be honest with you, I don't give a rat's left testicle what excuses companies use for having DLSK or required DLCs. Unlocking content on the disc regardless of the reason/excuse is meaningless. I don't care if some crazy person had a gun to all the developers faces; an excuse is still an excuse and gamers hate it.

The sad part is, the whole thing is like gas. Gas stations could charge $5/galleon and people would pay it. Why? Because they have to get to work, to school, to the bank, to the hospital, to the post office, etc. If you make it so DLC is required to play the game, then people have two options: 1. Stop playing next generation video games altogether, or 2. Go with the flow. Whether or not we like it, most people would go with option 2, so companies will continue to make DLSKs and they won't bat an eye at those who hate it. Get with the program or get out. Welcome to the seventh generation mother f*****s. :frustrated:

[The 1 2 P]

Here's an ironic story for you. I bought a couple extra multiplayer map packs for Killzone 2 on the PS3 and you know what? Nobody plays them. I haven't ever seen a soul in any of these additional maps. I assumed that people won't buy these new maps when there's plenty to do on the disc. I actually made a pact with my self to not buy multiplayer maps anymore because nobody uses them, and you'll never get any mileage out of them.

While that may be true for Killzone 2, thats certainly not the case for Halo 3. Eventually they make all the new map packs a requirement for all but a few playlist(social slayer and the like). So you'd definitely need the new maps(in HL3) if you want to play everything multiplayer has to offer.

What really sucks about this(besides having to buy new maps) is that alot of the new maps get continuously vetoed by players, so the new maps you just paid for might not even be played for awhile or until people stop hitting the veto buttom.

[otaku]

My brother spends probably 180 a year on wow not including needing net access and a computer and a copy of the game. My thing is rock band. I bought the game and some accessories and some expansions and some content and I don't wanna think about how much I've spent. But I've enjoyed it. and the same goes for my bro and his wow

[stonecutter]

Otaku makes a bit of a point, its about enjoyment. Trust me I don't want to pay anymore that I have too, but if there is more enjoyment, there is also a good chance I pay more. Though I am gettin gbetter about waiting, and sometimes it is cheaper.

[Zing]

Did they seriously factor in xbox live costs into the cost of Halo? I doubt anyone is using their xbox live strictly to play Halo. If they went to that extreme, why not add in the cost of the internet connection? Or the mortgage needed on the house you play in? Maybe food costs? Geez.

[carlcarlson]

Did they seriously factor in xbox live costs into the cost of Halo? I doubt anyone is using their xbox live strictly to play Halo. If they went to that extreme, why not add in the cost of the internet connection? Or the mortgage needed on the house you play in? Maybe food costs? Geez.

I think you would be very surprised.

[The 1 2 P]

I think you would be very surprised.

He would indeed. The reason why Xbox live friends list is maxed out at 100 people is because there's one game from the Xbox generation that wouldn't be playable online if they raised the friend's list cap. And that game is.....drum roll please.......Halo 2.

Halo is a religion for some people and since Halo 2 is still the most played original Xbox game on live(with tens of thousands of people still playing it) Microsoft has decided not to cut support for it for another year or two..

[Icarus Moonsight]

I have an observation of my own to add, if it falls too far outside the topic, then I'll start up another thread about it. Anyway...

It was the "Nickel & Dime" term that got my attention and sparked this post coalescing inside my head in a sort of auto-genesis of thought. I'm not like many of you currently up on everything this gen in console gaming. I got a Wii early, and mostly, I've been content with it. I do see some releases that catch my interest on the other guys plats, but nothing that has arrested my wallet as of yet. What has, in the past, or potentially could again, is all the download madness. Yes, with a Wii, DSi and PSP 2000 I know that my exposure is only partial to the totality of it. But, that makes my observations worse for the all-includers because even with relative limited access and what I'd like to think are better-than-average finace management traits, I still got tagged.

When I am just going about my day and I have idle time, I can get a sudden urge to play a current game I yet have on hand. I'd think about going out to get it, but naw, I'm too busy at the moment (too busy being idle that is) or it's just too much hassle or I won't be able to make my savings funds for the week (in my head anyway). Eventually, that urge subsides and you find that urge was actually more a in-the-moment impulse. I have built in defenses to counter them, but the war for my monies entered a new front and caught me unaware. Download madness...

Dropping a number in a field and a few clicks or selections latter, you can have a game and usually, you don't have to go far to complete the transaction. Couple dozen feet, max. I can do it naked with a towel in my lap too! This is the problem. Now I have to determine a solution. Well, before I succumbed to the madness, I used the retail point card system. This enabled my fairly virile traditional defenses to keep me in check. I even got point cards at discounts a few times. Problem here is, the transaction in store is not 1:1. As in, one cluster of cash in exchange for one game. When I'm spurred by a release (like most recently Gradius/Contra ReBirth) I'd got out, or grab a card when doing other things in-store and things proceded as normal. But, there were always remainder points... That is the hook.

For every single release that passes my internal check system, I wind up buying another or two on pure impulse. Just because I can. I allowed this habit to infect my process and circumvent it. I ended up inputting my CC# (something I was certain I'd never do) to bypass what I thought was a breach (the remainder impulse dls) of my 'security'. For all my caution, I'm still played a fool and gladly comply... For a while, I noticed nothing. I thought I was comming out ahead. Then I ran the figures vs time and checked that with my internal fun to expense value system and I might as well have been Poland in the 1930's... Sony and Nintendo got in, MS didn't because there were locality issues (system not in my possesion) but had they been there, the damage would have been more severe. So, I deleted my CC#'s (except for the PSP - I only got 3 buys for it, so I consider it the least hostile or the least danger to me particularly) and even got a replacement card with a new number, just to be safe. Yes, paranoia or overly cautious, either way I'm better for it.

I couldn't translate all those actions and behaviours into words until just now. And looking back, I'll know what's happening if the little monkey is trying to get on my back again. I thought some about my routine pre-ordering through Amazon and checked it to verify that it wasn't taking the same route bypassing my internal system. It passed. I do pre-order a bit, but I always have at least a few weeks to a couple months to cancel once urge is found to be impulse. So, I'm safe from them for now. At least, until the holiday slashing sales come back in a few months. With the economy in the toilet, and spending ever decreasing, it's going to be an all out war for my attention and I'll have to be more vigilent than ever. Especially now that I know, I'm not as safe as I thought.

[kaedesdisciple]

I find myself saying more and more that I have to wait with certain games. I saw the GoW2 GOTY edition sitting in the store the other day and I was like, if I'd only waited, I could've gotten all of the DLC on one disc for cheaper than what I paid for my LE edition that just has some extra, um, stuff with it. I waited for the Oblivion GOTY edition and I think I made the right move there. Now I'm waiting for the Fallout 3 GOTY edition, I know it'll probably be a while, but I'm sure it will get there eventually.

As far as what I'm guilty of, absolutely it's Rock Band. I've forgotten how many songs I've downloaded at this point, but at least my friends and I are having fun with it.

I'm not entirely happy with the way the trends are moving, but instead of trying to be the minority trying to buck the trend and be angry, we may do well to read the trend and learn how to roll with it while still getting what we want.

[8-bitNesMan]

For instance, I just purchased the "game of the year" edition of Gears of War 2. For $20 I got the game, all 19 multiplayer maps and the extra campaign mission.

Where did you find Gears 2 for $20? I was looking at the All Fronts DLC last night and it was $20 for that. Last time I saw Gears 2 at the store it was $39.XX and I just looked on walmart.com and it was still $49.82 on there. I would rather buy another copy of the game for $20 instead of downloading All Fronts....

[BetaWolf47]

Will downloadable content ever have collector's value? I mean, imagine this in 20 years:

"Wii console, complete in box. Contains Wii Sports, system, nunchuk and remote."

Vs.

"Wii console, complete in box with Wii Sports, system, nunchuk, and remote. Contains many games that were never produced on disc: Mega Man 9, Contra ReBirth, LostWinds, Space Invaders Get Even, LIT, Strongbad, and more!"

If there's no way to get certain games other than buying a console with them in the memory, I think it will drive up price.

[The 1 2 P]

Where did you find Gears 2 for $20? I was looking at the All Fronts DLC last night and it was $20 for that. Last time I saw Gears 2 at the store it was $39.XX and I just looked on walmart.com and it was still $49.82 on there. I would rather buy another copy of the game for $20 instead of downloading All Fronts....

The week of Sept 22(when Halo 3 ODST came out) Best Buy had a sale for Gears of War 2, Halo 3 and Halo Wars--all for $30 each($10 off their normal price). When I bought Halo 3 ODST(the week of this sale) I got a free $10 gift card, which I applied to the $30 price of GOW2: GOTY edition and thus got it for $20.

Kmart also had it for $30 a few weeks ago. Keep an eye out for either Sears, Toys or Us or Target having a sale at the $30 price point soon. Otherwise I'll PM you the next time I see it in a store for $30 or less.

[Nature Boy]

The problem with Halo 3 is that you can't really play online without every map pack. Matchmaking just doesn't work unless you have every map.

I call bullshit. I didn't purchase *one* map pack via DLC and I never had problems playing Halo 3 online.

[Icarus Moonsight]

I read ODST as GOTY Edition myself... I also thought, who are they kidding? LOL Apparently, quite a few. :p

[carlcarlson]

Now I'm waiting for the Fallout 3 GOTY edition, I know it'll probably be a while, but I'm sure it will get there eventually.

It comes out next Tuesday! I've been waiting, too, and it might be the first game I preorder. Amazon has it and the collector's GOTY hardcover guide for $78. Very tempting...


I call bullshit. I didn't purchase *one* map pack via DLC and I never had problems playing Halo 3 online.

Most game modes are locked unless you have the map packs, at least for ranked matches. If I remember correctly you're limited to 8 player free for all, and that's it. For someone who just picked up the game to see what all the multiplayer fuss is about (me) it's pretty disappointing to find out you need to shell out more money if you want to actually experience the game on Live.

Of course now you could just buy ODST and get all the maps for free.


Change of subject:
http://www.gamespot.com/news/6232117.html?tag=latestheadlines;title;1
So Dragon Age is releasing alongside three DLC packs. To be fair, two of them will be free to people who buy the game new, but why not just put the content on the disc then? And the third will still cost $7. I'm all for rpg expansions (thank you Fallout 3), but hold on to them for a few months for crying out loud.

[mEgAsHoT]

Yeah, I know you're not required to buy the maps but it's at the point where you almost have to if you don't want to wait forever for a non-DLC map to be selected. I don't mind DLC. I bought the map packs for COD4 and played them to death. It's when they make it difficult for non-DLC'ers to play I have a problem with it.

Halo 3 is pretty bad with it too. Back of the game box says "Multiplayer 2-16" but the 16 player Big Team games are closed if you don't have the DLC maps. And Team SWAT games are closed for non-DLC people too. So that's my two favorite game types that I can't access anymore.

My point is DLC should be entirely optional and shouldn't interfere with gameplay, online or off.

This is exactly how I feel about DLC for shooters like this, and for DLC in general. I have both Call of Duty's on the PS3 (COD4 and World at War) and am annoyed that I am almost required to pay $40 total (for the one COD4 map pack and the three WaW map packs) to play online without getting booted back to the main menu, getting the new maps shoved down our throats. All I want to do is just to hop online and just play for fun, I am not concerned about paying an extra $40 just for some maps when I have already spent over $60 getting both games, and both games have perfectly acceptable maps to play online with (that you don't have to pay for).

Quite seriously, Halo really started this trend...Halo 2 actually. Charging for extra maps and then REQUIRING them in certain playlists...including ones that were originally playable by everyone with no DLC! Halo 3 is even worse, they commonly open and close certain playlists for people with no DLC and guests. There's like hardly any gametypes on Halo 3's matchmaking that allow a split-screen guest anymore. It's really disappointing, because Halo's big success was it's split-screen multiplayer and now they can't even support it decently online. The reason why I say this is because it is one of the few games that will let you play online with a Guest account (like Rock Band or Guitar Hero).

My opinion on DLC:
-If it's content that is OPTIONAL and expands the game itself (and is NOT on the disc) then that's fine with me. A great example would be Guitar Hero or Rock Band DLC. It's practically like the iTunes of video games, you can literally choose what songs you want and buy them. I don't really consider this "Nickel and Diming", because it's pretty much identical to hopping onto iTunes and purchasing a single track for $1, then two the next day, a whole album the next, etc. Okay, maybe it is "Nickel and Diming", but at least it's content that expands the game, and isn't something that's on the disc.

-If it's content that is required to play the game or to access some mode or whatever and/or is already on the disc, that's not fine with me. An example would be the extra modes available as DLC for Resident Evil 5 on the day of it's release. Ridiculous.

-If the content itself is a total waste of money (like costumes for characters, extra gamer pictures and themes, cheat codes) then it should be either free or not be DLC at all. An example would be the infamous "Horse Armor" for Elder Scrolls IV Oblivion, or the many useless extra Little Big Planet costumes.

[carlcarlson]

This is exactly how I feel about DLC for shooters like this, and for DLC in general. I have both Call of Duty's on the PS3 (COD4 and World at War) and am annoyed that I am almost required to pay $40 total (for the one COD4 map pack and the three WaW map packs) to play online without getting booted back to the main menu, getting the new maps shoved down our throats. All I want to do is just to hop online and just play for fun, I am not concerned about paying an extra $40 just for some maps when I have already spent over $60 getting both games, and both games have perfectly acceptable maps to play online with (that you don't have to pay for).

At the risk of sounding like an asshole fanboy... play on Xbox Live. There is practically no wait to get into DLC-less games on Live, there are still tens of thousands of vanilla COD games out there. It sounds like the PS3 doesn't separate people without map packs, so you have a good chance of joining a game with a DLC board. Live doesn't do that, so you will never join a game with a map you can't play. I played COD 4 until this summer without the map pack and never had any trouble finding a game.

[NE146]

I played COD 4 until this summer without the map pack and never had any trouble finding a game.

COD4 is like that which is why it's superior. You dont need to buy the map packs and can play online with no problem.

COD5 WAW however, they really try and get you to buy their map packs, and kick you off if you don't have them... which is why I don't play COD5 ;)

I'm hoping COD6 MW2 will be the same way since it's the same developer as COD4.