FA: SNES-CD Prototype Controller

[Bibliophile]

Hello, everybody.

I have the following ebay auction for an SNES-CD prototype controller.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150378760302

The auction is in fact mine, so if you have any questions, please feel free to ask.

Thank you.

[Tokimemofan]

Your link seems to be broken although I think this is it: http://cgi.ebay.com/Sony-SNES-Super-Nintendo-CD-ROM-prototype-controller-PS_W0QQitemZ150378760302QQcmdZViewItemQQptZVideo_G ames_Accessories?hash=item230345c86e forgive me if I am wrong...

[Bibliophile]

Your link seems to be broken although I think this is it: http://cgi.ebay.com/Sony-SNES-Super-Nintendo-CD-ROM-prototype-controller-PS_W0QQitemZ150378760302QQcmdZViewItemQQptZVideo_G ames_Accessories?hash=item230345c86e forgive me if I am wrong...

That's it. Thanks.

[portnoyd]

$410?! Goddamn, is this really that interesting to warrant that value?

[Balloon Fight]

$410?! Goddamn, is this really that interesting to warrant that value?

$585 now :P

I will be seriously surprised if it gets above 4 figures.

[badinsults]

Up to $800 and the reserve hasn't been met. Does the seller think this is gold or something? I mean, in the Assembler forum thread, a former Sony employee came out and said this thing post-dates the SNES CD. It is an interesting thing for Sony fans, I suppose, but as a SNES guy, the auction description is a bit misleading.

[Buyatari]

Up to $800 and the reserve hasn't been met. Does the seller think this is gold or something? I mean, in the Assembler forum thread, a former Sony employee came out and said this thing post-dates the SNES CD. It is an interesting thing for Sony fans, I suppose, but as a SNES guy, the auction description is a bit misleading.

I talked to that guy and he changed his view after he knew the who what where and when of the one I sold.

[Buyatari]

I talked to that guy and he changed his view after he knew the who what where and when of the one I sold.

All that being said if I were him I'd still take $800 for it.

[badinsults]

It confuses me why a brand new controller would be produced for something that is an add-on. Did the Sega CD/32x have a different controller? It kind of defeats the purpose of an "add-on". I doubt very much, even by claims of Sony employees working in the US (I envision that the hardware development was likely mostly carried out in Japan), that there would be a "SNES-CD" controller.

[Bojay1997]

It confuses me why a brand new controller would be produced for something that is an add-on. Did the Sega CD/32x have a different controller? It kind of defeats the purpose of an "add-on". I doubt very much, even by claims of Sony employees working in the US (I envision that the hardware development was likely mostly carried out in Japan), that there would be a "SNES-CD" controller.

I think your opinion is sort of the majority opinion on the item in question every time one comes up for sale. It really doesn't make sense from a hardware evolutionary perspective, there are documents and photos from Sony showing that the same exact controller was used in the early Playstation (non-SNES CD) development kits (meaning at a minimum that this controller was not exclusive to the SNES-CD) and there are several ex-Sony employees, as well as folks who did development at companies like Psygnosis at the time who believe this controller in fact had nothing to do with the SNES CD. There are also early promo photos of the SNES-CD with what looks like a stock SNES white controller with Sony badging.

I noticed on several other sites that the seller has posted links to older discussion threads allegedly proving that the item is in fact a SNES CD development controller, but having participated in both threads several years ago and going back and reading them now, neither one was conclusive.

It really all comes down to what Buyatari's former Sony employee source told him when he gave him the controller. Buyatari has reliable sources generally, but it's pushing 15 years now since this whole project went down and unless someone shows me a written design schematic dating this thing to the SNES CD era, I will always have trouble believing that it has anything to do with the SNES CD.

[badinsults]

Well, when it comes down to it, if you search around for SNES CD stuff on google (in particular the big thread on Assembler's forum, and this article (http://www.n-sider.com/contentview.php?contentid=231) on N-Sider.com, there are many pictures of prototype PlayStation controllers, and all signs point to this being something used after the end of the SNES CD. Keep in mind that Sony, Philips and Nintendo were apparently working on a single system at one point, but I doubt anything concrete came out of that.

[Buyatari]

It confuses me why a brand new controller would be produced for something that is an add-on. Did the Sega CD/32x have a different controller? It kind of defeats the purpose of an "add-on". I doubt very much, even by claims of Sony employees working in the US (I envision that the hardware development was likely mostly carried out in Japan), that there would be a "SNES-CD" controller.

Well Sony was making the hardware not Nintendo.

The SNESCD dev kit had a controller. What did this controller look like if this is not it?
From what you are saying it must have been exactly like an SNES controller produced by Sony? I find that even harder to believe than the SNESCD dev controllers were later used on the PSX dev kits.

[Bojay1997]

Well Sony was making the hardware not Nintendo.

The SNESCD dev kit had a controller. What did this controller look like if this is not it?
From what you are saying it must have been exactly like an SNES controller produced by Sony? I find that even harder to believe than the SNESCD dev controllers were later used on the PSX dev kits.

I don't really understand your argument. Here is the only picture I'm aware of showing the mock-up and it clearly has a regular SNES controller with a Sony logo on top.

http://ecetia.com/2009/05/rarezas-snes-cd

Third parties developing add-on hardware in cooperation with another existing hardware manufacturer would more than likely be required to use the existing designs and protocols for controllers. It's not like Sony did this project in secret and then revealed it to Nintendo after it was done. They were partners in development for several years. I really find it hard to believe that Nintendo authorized them to change the button configuration and design something that didn't match the existing hardware at all.

[Bibliophile]

Up to $800 and the reserve hasn't been met. Does the seller think this is gold or something?


I don't think it is gold, but I do think that it is rare enough to be worth my reserve. There are not a lot of these things floating around; they are an interesting part of gaming history. You have people paying upwards of $2000 for sealed copies of Chrono Trigger, and you know they are never going to play those sealed copies. How is this any different? I am not even asking that much. If anything, this is rarer and more noteworthy than just a "sealed copy" of a game.


I mean, in the Assembler forum thread, a former Sony employee came out and said this thing post-dates the SNES CD. It is an interesting thing for Sony fans, I suppose, but as a SNES guy, the auction description is a bit misleading.

BuyAtari already addressed this point, but the guy on Asssember who initially contended that this post-dated the SNES-CD (it was Jet-X), later conceded the argument after he spoke with BuyAtari's source.

[Bibliophile]

I think your opinion is sort of the majority opinion on the item in question every time one comes up for sale. It really doesn't make sense from a hardware evolutionary perspective, there are documents and photos from Sony showing that the same exact controller was used in the early Playstation (non-SNES CD) development kits (meaning at a minimum that this controller was not exclusive to the SNES-CD) and there are several ex-Sony employees, as well as folks who did development at companies like Psygnosis at the time who believe this controller in fact had nothing to do with the SNES CD. There are also early promo photos of the SNES-CD with what looks like a stock SNES white controller with Sony badging.

I noticed on several other sites that the seller has posted links to older discussion threads allegedly proving that the item is in fact a SNES CD development controller, but having participated in both threads several years ago and going back and reading them now, neither one was conclusive.

It really all comes down to what Buyatari's former Sony employee source told him when he gave him the controller. Buyatari has reliable sources generally, but it's pushing 15 years now since this whole project went down and unless someone shows me a written design schematic dating this thing to the SNES CD era, I will always have trouble believing that it has anything to do with the SNES CD.

There is a pic of this controller with what is purported to be the SNES-CD prototype on Assembler:

http://www.assemblergames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9300&page=9

That being said, the one I have is not the same one that BuyAtari sold. However, the person I got mine from also stated that it was for the SNES-CD, as did BuyAtari's source. That is two separate sources both claiming that this controller was for the SNES-CD. It was probably also used with the PS development, but that fact, if true, would not prove that this wasn't for the SNES-CD.

[portnoyd]

I don't think it is gold, but I do think that it is rare enough to be worth my reserve. There are not a lot of these things floating around; they are an interesting part of gaming history. You have people paying upwards of $2000 for sealed copies of Chrono Trigger, and you know they are never going to play those sealed copies. How is this any different? I am not even asking that much. If anything, this is rarer and more noteworthy than just a "sealed copy" of a game.

That's a bad example. You're comparing a retail product to a development controller.

People can and will pay $2000 for an unreleased game, of which there are similar amounts that there are of this controller, yet the unreleased game has a game on it, as opposed to a controller you can't get any benefit out of.

So the short of it: you're nuts to think this is worth $2000.

[Bibliophile]

That's a bad example. You're comparing a retail product to a development controller.

People can and will pay $2000 for an unreleased game, of which there are similar amounts that there are of this controller, yet the unreleased game has a game on it, as opposed to a controller you can't get any benefit out of.

So the short of it: you're nuts to think this is worth $2000.

I didn't say it was worth $2000, nor did I say I that I was asking $2000 (my reserve is less than that). So please don't insult me. I have been respectful towards everyone here.

I was just giving a comparison. Whether you are buying this prototype controller or a rare sealed game, the purpose of spending that much on it is not to play it but to have it.

[PC-ENGINE HELL]

Whether you are buying this prototype controller or a rare sealed game, the purpose of spending that much on it is not to play it but to have it.
Agreed. Maybe Im just used to this sort of stuff though. People buy even non-working prototype hardware all the time in the computer gaming communities, especially if its 3DFX related. Doesn't matter if it works or is usable, they just want it because its rare and a part of some sort of development history. Nothing wrong with that at all really, and I'm thankful people do care about the stuff.

[Bojay1997]

There is a pic of this controller with what is purported to be the SNES-CD prototype on Assembler:

http://www.assemblergames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9300&page=9

That being said, the one I have is not the same one that BuyAtari sold. However, the person I got mind from also stated that it was for the SNES-CD, as did BuyAtari's source. That is two separate sources both claiming that this controller was for the SNES-CD. It was probably also used with the PS development, but that fact, if true, would not prove that this wasn't for the SNES-CD.

Two points here. That picture you are linking to was from a video game collector's show and the owner of both items already said they had nothing to do with each other, but that he simply displayed them together since they were both from the early days of the Playstation. That controller doesn't even plug into that unit. The picture I posted clearly shows a standard SNES controller being used in the SNES CD mock-up and that frankly makes a lot of sense. An entirely new controller in the completely wrong color scheme with a button configuration which shares little with the SNES makes it pretty clear this is not a SNES CD controller, prototype or otherwise.

The fact that you guys keep claiming Jet-X agrees now that the controller was from the SNES CD is interesting, but he hasn't said so publically and in fact disappeared off Assembler before he confirmed anything publically.

I realize you have a financial incentive for claiming this is an SNES CD controller, but logic and the publically known facts don't seem to back that up. Sony has already released pictures of that particular controller design in magazine pictorials on the anniversary of the Playstation, so I doubt that anyone who worked on the SNES CD would be in violation of an NDA by coming forward and confirming that it is in fact an SNES CD prototype controller. I think the reality is that this is a case of some people having poor memories of what must have been a very tumultuous time at Sony.

[badinsults]

There is a pic of this controller with what is purported to be the SNES-CD prototype on Assembler:

http://www.assemblergames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9300&page=9

That being said, the one I have is not the same one that BuyAtari sold. However, the person I got mine from also stated that it was for the SNES-CD, as did BuyAtari's source. That is two separate sources both claiming that this controller was for the SNES-CD. It was probably also used with the PS development, but that fact, if true, would not prove that this wasn't for the SNES-CD.

From this article (http://www.edge-online.com/magazine/the-making-of-playstation) in Edge Magazine, you can clearly see that Sony's Snes CD system uses a SNES controller. That was shown at the 1991 Summer CES, and the day after Nintendo abandoned their deal with Sony. Sony initially was going to release their own system that was compatible with the SNES, but quickly scrapped the plan. Even with them being brought back into the fold for a while in 1992, it was quickly apparent that the deal was not going to happen. Even if prototype hardware exists from that duration, it probably would have been jointly developed by Philips and Nintendo.

So as demonstrated, at the end of the formal relationship with Nintendo, Sony was still using a SNES controller for their device. This particular controller was used in a development kit that dates to 1994 (http://www.playstationmuseum.com/Hardware/Develop/DTL-H500.htm), long after the relationship with Nintendo ended. The Edge article even describes why that particular controller was scrapped in favour of the handled one we got (the President of Sony hated the flat controller).

I'm sorry, but the fuzzy memory of a Sony employee is not going to convince me that there was a redesigned controller for the SNES CD, especially when another former Sony employee in that Atari Age thread dates it to 1994. Hell, I have seen pictures of this particular controller with the full Sony Playstation style button assignments (which were shown at the 2000 Tokyo Gaming Show).

Edit: probably the simplest way to solve this debacle is to open up the controller and see if there are any date stamps on the chips or PCB board.

[Tokimemofan]

I know my thoughts may seem odd and I know little about hardware development but keep in mind that this is a prototype controller for use with a dev kit. Remember when the playstatrion 3 was announces at E3 they had much of the final specs (I think an extra Ethernet port was dropped or something else minor) but they showed of the hideous batarang controller, proof that the controller was FAR from complete or atleast lagging bekind the rest as a controller design should be easier to move from concept to final hardware than a system which has many more problems that need to be dealt with. If that is the case the three things we need to know are:
Q: Do working fullspec prototypes of the SNES Playstation exist?
A: I assume so based on a few things I have read. You can correct me
Q: What is the date of Nintendo and Sonys fallout?
A: Sometime between 06-91 and 01-92 see this> http://www.n-sider.com/contentview.php?contentid=231
Q: what is the date of the last prototype revision prior to the above date
A: Probably unknowable
Q: what is the datecode of the controller.
A: To check this when there is no obvious date check the IC chips, an example would be the number 9140, which translates to the 40th week of 1991, that would be the first week of october BTW.
Q: Is this a controller that was designed specifically for the last pre split revision or an earlier revision even if it was used with or distributed for a later revision.
A: compare the datecodes of the of two items.

Of course this presumes that all the above is knowable especially since we already know that sony took the knowledge the got from their work with nintendo to make the Sony Playstation (Note that both are called "Playstation" so this is how I'll differentiate the two) and that the break up is the dividing line between the two addon and the system. I also presume that you wouldn't differentiate between tow otherwise Identical prototypes based on the date they were made. there are many reasons wky development would have continued for a short time (a few days to a few months) and threrfor controllers, which are the most abused devkit parts may have needed imediate replacement. Sony strikes me as the tipe of company to do that and they had the legal leverage to force nintendo's hand.

It also doesn't strike me as odd that they would plan to release a special controller, keep in mind that there are limited use controllers that were released and I am not talking about guitar controllers. Remember the Sega Saturn 3D Controller? http://www.axess.com/twilight/console/detail/saturn_b.html

The following things I can see lead me to think it belongs on the sony camp:
!: Model number, DTL is used on Playstation 1 and 2 DEVware.
2: Color Scheme reminds me of the SCPH-1010 and SCPH-1080 controllers.
3: Button Shape is more like a Sony Playstation controller than expected.

The following things I can see lead me to think it belongs in the Nintendo camp:
1: The shape is similar to Nintendo's dogbone designs.
2: No Sony Playstation logos just a model number and serial number
3: This article with photos shows either the same controller model or a similar one. http://www.n-sider.com/contentview.php?contentid=231

I'd say it is definitely an SNES Playstation controller and it is indeed very rare based based on the article alone someone would have to go through a lot of trouble to fake that article along with 2 Sony Playstation controller prototypes that show an interesting design progression, and much more context that includes additional prototype photos etc.

That guy 2 years ago if he over payed he didn't lose much.

[Bibliophile]

probably the simplest way to solve this debacle is to open up the controller and see if there are any date stamps on the chips or PCB board.

This is actually a good idea. I went ahead and opened up the controller and took pics. I could not find any dates (that I would recognize), but I am posting the pics in case someone here sees something useful in them that might help shed light on the matter at hand.

http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x162/Bibliophile007/SNES-CD/IMG_3990.jpg

http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x162/Bibliophile007/SNES-CD/IMG_3993.jpg

http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x162/Bibliophile007/SNES-CD/IMG_3994.jpg

http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x162/Bibliophile007/SNES-CD/IMG_3996.jpg

http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x162/Bibliophile007/SNES-CD/IMG_3997.jpg

http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x162/Bibliophile007/SNES-CD/IMG_3998.jpg

http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x162/Bibliophile007/SNES-CD/IMG_3999.jpg

http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x162/Bibliophile007/SNES-CD/IMG_4000.jpg

http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x162/Bibliophile007/SNES-CD/IMG_4001.jpg

http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x162/Bibliophile007/SNES-CD/IMG_4002.jpg

[Bibliophile]

I know my thoughts may seem odd and I know little about hardware development but keep in mind that this is a prototype controller for use with a dev kit. Remember when the playstatrion 3 was announces at E3 they had much of the final specs (I think an extra Ethernet port was dropped or something else minor) but they showed of the hideous batarang controller, proof that the controller was FAR from complete or atleast lagging bekind the rest as a controller design should be easier to move from concept to final hardware than a system which has many more problems that need to be dealt with. If that is the case the three things we need to know are:
Q: Do working fullspec prototypes of the SNES Playstation exist?
A: I assume so based on a few things I have read. You can correct me
Q: What is the date of Nintendo and Sonys fallout?
A: Sometime between 06-91 and 01-92 see this> http://www.n-sider.com/contentview.php?contentid=231
Q: what is the date of the last prototype revision prior to the above date
A: Probably unknowable
Q: what is the datecode of the controller.
A: To check this when there is no obvious date check the IC chips, an example would be the number 9140, which translates to the 40th week of 1991, that would be the first week of october BTW.
Q: Is this a controller that was designed specifically for the last pre split revision or an earlier revision even if it was used with or distributed for a later revision.
A: compare the datecodes of the of two items.

Of course this presumes that all the above is knowable especially since we already know that sony took the knowledge the got from their work with nintendo to make the Sony Playstation (Note that both are called "Playstation" so this is how I'll differentiate the two) and that the break up is the dividing line between the two addon and the system. I also presume that you wouldn't differentiate between tow otherwise Identical prototypes based on the date they were made. there are many reasons wky development would have continued for a short time (a few days to a few months) and threrfor controllers, which are the most abused devkit parts may have needed imediate replacement. Sony strikes me as the tipe of company to do that and they had the legal leverage to force nintendo's hand.

It also doesn't strike me as odd that they would plan to release a special controller, keep in mind that there are limited use controllers that were released and I am not talking about guitar controllers. Remember the Sega Saturn 3D Controller? http://www.axess.com/twilight/console/detail/saturn_b.html

The following things I can see lead me to think it belongs on the sony camp:
!: Model number, DTL is used on Playstation 1 and 2 DEVware.
2: Color Scheme reminds me of the SCPH-1010 and SCPH-1080 controllers.
3: Button Shape is more like a Sony Playstation controller than expected.

The following things I can see lead me to think it belongs in the Nintendo camp:
1: The shape is similar to Nintendo's dogbone designs.
2: No Sony Playstation logos just a model number and serial number
3: This article with photos shows either the same controller model or a similar one. http://www.n-sider.com/contentview.php?contentid=231

I'd say it is definitely an SNES Playstation controller and it is indeed very rare based based on the article alone someone would have to go through a lot of trouble to fake that article along with 2 Sony Playstation controller prototypes that show an interesting design progression, and much more context that includes additional prototype photos etc.

That guy 2 years ago if he over payed he didn't lose much.

Thanks for posting that article. If I had any doubt about whether this controller was for the SNES-CD prototype, I think such doubts were removed by that article. That article shows this controller being used with an Add-On for the Super Famicom. (The second picture shows a Super Famicom cart slot). Although this device may have been an Add-On for the Super Famicom rather than the SNES, for all intents and purposes in this discussion, they are on and the same. The point is that this controller seems to have been for the Super Famicom/SNES CD, before the Playstation was developed.

I understand that some of the skeptics will not accept these pics. However, the only thing short of a "smoking gun" that would prove unequivocally that this controller would be a pic of the controller actually connected to that Super Famicom Add-On. Still, I find it hard to believe that author of the article went to the trouble to trackdown and locate a Super Famicom Prototype Add-On as well as an unrelated prototype Target Box controller, and decided to photograph them together. IMO, these pics suffice to show that the controller is a SNES-CD/SF-CD controller, rather than a Playstation controller.

http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x162/Bibliophile007/SNES-CD/inline-4-231-1.jpg

http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x162/Bibliophile007/SNES-CD/inline-4-231-3.jpg

http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x162/Bibliophile007/SNES-CD/inline-4-231-5.jpg

[Borman]

Id imagine its both, since as you said, it sure looks like it. Of course, the proof for the Playstation part of it was :
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v450/Borman/psxprotofinalip9.jpg

[badinsults]

Thanks for posting that article. If I had any doubt about whether this controller was for the SNES-CD prototype, I think such doubts were removed by that article. That article shows this controller being used with an Add-On for the Super Famicom. (The second picture shows a Super Famicom cart slot). Although this device may have been an Add-On for the Super Famicom rather than the SNES, for all intents and purposes in this discussion, they are on and the same. The point is that this controller seems to have been for the Super Famicom/SNES CD, before the Playstation was developed.

I understand that some of the skeptics will not accept these pics. However, the only thing short of a "smoking gun" that would prove unequivocally that this controller would be a pic of the controller actually connected to that Super Famicom Add-On. Still, I find it hard to believe that author of the article went to the trouble to trackdown and locate a Super Famicom Prototype Add-On as well as an unrelated prototype Target Box controller, and decided to photograph them together. IMO, these pics suffice to show that the controller is a SNES-CD/SF-CD controller, rather than a Playstation controller.

Actually, if you read the article that those pictures are from on Dangerboy's website (http://web.archive.org/web/20060522013909/www.game-rave.com/psx/playstation_perfect_guide/snes_psx/index.html), it states that the controller is from a PS dev kit and is not related to the hardware shown there. I've bugged Dangerboy to put the article back up (he was unaware it was not there anymore).

[Bibliophile]

Actually, if you read the article that those pictures are from on Dangerboy's website (http://web.archive.org/web/20060522013909/www.game-rave.com/psx/playstation_perfect_guide/snes_psx/index.html), it states that the controller is from a PS dev kit and is not related to the hardware shown there. I've bugged Dangerboy to put the article back up (he was unaware it was not there anymore).

Who is the actual owner of that prototype SNES-CD? Does Dangerboy own it? If not, where is it located?

If the controller has absolutely nothing to do with the SNES-CD (which I am still not convinced yet), then why would someone bother to take pics of it with the SNES-CD. Not just one, but three pics. It doesn't make any sense at all. One might as well take pics of a SNES-CD prototype with an unrelated Prototype Sega Saturn controller if that is the case.

[Bibliophile]

http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x162/Bibliophile007/SNES-CD/IMG_4002.jpg

FWIW, the chip has the following written on it:

402168
M C37B
408AA

The "M" in the second line has a circle around it, much like a copyright "c" has a circle around it.

I don't know what any of the above means, but if anyone knows what any of it means and can shed light on this debate, it would be most appreciated.

[badinsults]

Who is the actual owner of that prototype SNES-CD? Does Dangerboy own it? If not, where is it located?

If the controller has absolutely nothing to do with the SNES-CD (which I am still not convinced yet), then why would someone bother to take pics of it with the SNES-CD. Not just one, but three pics. It doesn't make any sense at all. One might as well take pics of a SNES-CD prototype with an unrelated Prototype Sega Saturn controller if that is the case.

Since Dangerboy runs a Playstation website, I guess that the owner of that stuff thought it might be interesting to take a picture of the controller along with the SNES CD prototype.

Really though, I think you are just grasping at straws now. The two most prominent Playstation collecting websites (Game Rave and Playstation Museum) both have those controllers as being from one of the first Playstation dev kits (Playstation Museum has that dating to 1994), the serial numbers match the hardware used for the Playstation 1 and 2, and the buttons and design are more similar to the PS1 controller than the snes (all early snes-compatible prototype Playstation used a snes controller, and when you look at this controller it has two extra face buttons and the start and select buttons are in the same shape as the final PS1 controller). Until I see this controller with an actual SNES CD development kit, it is a better assumption to say this is an early PS1 controller design which was used for a PS1 dev kit.

[badinsults]

FWIW, the chip has the following written on it:

402168
M C37B
408AA

The "M" in the second line has a circle around it, much like a copyright "c" has a circle around it.

I don't know what any of the above means, but if anyone knows what any of it means and can shed light on this debate, it would be most appreciated.

It means there is no date on the chip, so it doesn't shed any light unless I can find out what the chip is.

[PapaStu]

Who is the actual owner of that prototype SNES-CD? Does Dangerboy own it? If not, where is it located?

If the controller has absolutely nothing to do with the SNES-CD (which I am still not convinced yet), then why would someone bother to take pics of it with the SNES-CD. Not just one, but three pics. It doesn't make any sense at all. One might as well take pics of a SNES-CD prototype with an unrelated Prototype Sega Saturn controller if that is the case.

The actual owner of the SNES CD unit is not Dangerboy. He was furnished pics by a confidential source who was around when it was found in the dumpster. The controller was not with that unit, and as that unit stands, it would have plugged into a Super Famicom and used a SFC controller. That doesn't mean that a new controller wasn't in the works, just that with THAT unit, it would not have been used.

The pics were taken together to show off both items as far as I remember.

[Dangerboy]

More or less everything has been taken care of above me, but just to re-iterate.

1. I don't own it. The pictures, along with ones of the actual, original, Sony Super Famicom(http://www.game-rave.com/psx/playstation_perfect_guide/features/feature_psx_fami/index.html), came from private sources, who will remain private. Both the images and sources are very legit, and very real.

2. The Controller has been confrimed, in MULTIPLE sources, articles, and web-sites as the PSX early set top boxes. PlayStation Museum (no relation) and myself have photos that actually has the controller plugged into soundless version of the hardware.

3. It's important to remember - the Super NES CD would have been an ADD-ON, Sega CD style. There was no need make a new controller. Anything of a 32-Bit "SNES-CD" as a stand alone, would have been the PlayStation from the start.

[Tokimemofan]

FWIW, the chip has the following written on it:

402168
M C37B
408AA

The "M" in the second line has a circle around it, much like a copyright "c" has a circle around it.

I don't know what any of the above means, but if anyone knows what any of it means and can shed light on this debate, it would be most appreciated.

I believe the (M) is the Motorola logo although the photos were too blurry to see. And the date is almost always there even if it is printed in a way that only the chip manufacturer can tell you.

[Buyatari]

Two points here. That picture you are linking to was from a video game collector's show and the owner of both items already said they had nothing to do with each other, but that he simply displayed them together since they were both from the early days of the Playstation. That controller doesn't even plug into that unit. The picture I posted clearly shows a standard SNES controller being used in the SNES CD mock-up and that frankly makes a lot of sense. An entirely new controller in the completely wrong color scheme with a button configuration which shares little with the SNES makes it pretty clear this is not a SNES CD controller, prototype or otherwise.

The fact that you guys keep claiming Jet-X agrees now that the controller was from the SNES CD is interesting, but he hasn't said so publically and in fact disappeared off Assembler before he confirmed anything publically.

I realize you have a financial incentive for claiming this is an SNES CD controller, but logic and the publically known facts don't seem to back that up. Sony has already released pictures of that particular controller design in magazine pictorials on the anniversary of the Playstation, so I doubt that anyone who worked on the SNES CD would be in violation of an NDA by coming forward and confirming that it is in fact an SNES CD prototype controller. I think the reality is that this is a case of some people having poor memories of what must have been a very tumultuous time at Sony.

It is hard for me to sit here and not just spill the whole can of beans on the who what where and when. I don't own this controller anymore and have nothing vested in this but I do think if this is going to be recorded it should be correct. I have seen several people show proof that the dev controller was used on the PS1 dev unit. That is not proof it wasn't used for the SNES CD dev unit. Show me a picture of a SNES CD dev unit controller that didn't look like this. You can't, because there isn't another one. This is it.


That picture you are linking to was from a video game collector's show and the owner of both items already said they had nothing to do with each other

As far as I know Sony still owns that PSX CD prototype unit. It is the prototype unit. The controller was for the dev unit. So yes two different things. I made a huge offer years ago and was told it belongs to Sony. It was going to be thrown out but was rescued from the dump by a Sony employee. I made an offer around that time. It is also around that time I was given the dev controller.

In the end I think I am done with this topic. Year after year this comes up and I end up saying the same thing over and over.

People can believe whatever they want. I can't worry about it anymore.

[Buyatari]

I believe the (M) is the Motorola logo although the photos were too blurry to see. And the date is almost always there even if it is printed in a way that only the chip manufacturer can tell you.

Also wanted to point out that if the same controller design was used on the SNES CD dev unit and the PS1 dev unit that controllers issued for the PS1 dev unit may have differed in some way or had chips with later dates. The controller I was given had a lower serial number.

[Bibliophile]

Since Dangerboy runs a Playstation website, I guess that the owner of that stuff thought it might be interesting to take a picture of the controller along with the SNES CD prototype.

Really though, I think you are just grasping at straws now. The two most prominent Playstation collecting websites (Game Rave and Playstation Museum) both have those controllers as being from one of the first Playstation dev kits (Playstation Museum has that dating to 1994), the serial numbers match the hardware used for the Playstation 1 and 2, and the buttons and design are more similar to the PS1 controller than the snes (all early snes-compatible prototype Playstation used a snes controller, and when you look at this controller it has two extra face buttons and the start and select buttons are in the same shape as the final PS1 controller). Until I see this controller with an actual SNES CD development kit, it is a better assumption to say this is an early PS1 controller design which was used for a PS1 dev kit.

I am not grasping for straws. I am going by the info that has been available to me (which it was represented to me as a SNES-CD controller by the seller I bought it from when I bought, and confirmed by BuyAtari). All the info available to me till now on both this site and Assembler seems to indicate that it was for the SNES-CD.

I don't dispute that it is for the PS dev unit, but that doesn't mean that the same design wasn't also used earlier for the SNES-CD unit. BuyAtari indicates that it was, and I have no reason to doubt him.

I am willing to accept the possibility that it is not a SNES-CD controller, but I'd want confirmation of it first. Otherwise, it means I got ripped off by the seller I bought it from when I bought it. I can accept that fact, but I don't like to accuse anyone of being a scammer without being certain of that fact. I am sure you can understand why.

The seller I got from clearly identified it as a SNES-CD controller on CtCW, when I bought it (as other members here can confirm), and he also gave me additional info about it via email. Thus, if it is not an SNES-CD controller, then I got scammed.

I agree with much of what you said, except for one thing. The design is, IMO, more similar to a SNES controller than it is to a PSX controller. Why do I think so? First, the shape is similar to the SNES shape, with circular sides. Second, the button and pad layout are similar to the SNES controller than to a PS controller. Third, the L and R buttons are almost identical to those on an SNES controller. Thus, it is easy to see where one might think it was related to the SNES.

That said, if Dangerboy is representing that this controller does not in fact connect to the SNES-CD prototype (and it appears he is), then I'll accept that as fact. (Still, I don't know why one would photograph the two items together if they are unrelated to eachother.)

[badinsults]

The burden of proof is on you to prove that it is a SNES CD item, not me. I have provided ample evidence that it was used on a PS1 dev kit. As of yet, there has not been a single SNES CD dev kit, prototype system or other hardware ever released or ever uncovered by collectors, aside from the two systems displayed on Game Rave. The known Sony hardware box has slots obviously used for SNES controllers, and the other item is a device that plugs into the controller slot of a SNES. The only evidence you have is hearsay from an unnamed former Sony employee. And that is not evidence.

[Buyatari]

The burden of proof is on you to prove that it is a SNES CD item, not me. I have provided ample evidence that it was used on a PS1 dev kit. As of yet, there has not been a single SNES CD dev kit, prototype system or other hardware ever released or ever uncovered by collectors, aside from the two systems displayed on Game Rave. The known Sony hardware box has slots obviously used for SNES controllers, and the other item is a device that plugs into the controller slot of a SNES. The only evidence you have is hearsay from an unnamed former Sony employee. And that is not evidence.

Ok so you have nothing to prove it wasn't and I have nothing to prove it was.

Believe whatever you want. I'm done.

[Tokimemofan]

Is there any printing on IC chips U2 (Between D-pad and Select) and U3 (Near U1 across from the row of 3 resistors).

[kedawa]

http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x162/Bibliophile007/SNES-CD/inline-4-231-1.jpg
It looks like someone got murdered with that prototype SNES-CD.
It's not for sale, it's for bludgeoning.

[Twilight]

PS-X Target Box with two controllers.

Serial numbers of the controllers are 404XX.

http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/5738/dsc02738q.jpg

[Bibliophile]

Now that I now what is a fair market value for this item, I will sell this for $800 plus paypal fees and shipping. If you pay by paypal gift or money order, you can save the paypal fees.

[Enigmus]

PS-X Target Box with two controllers.

Serial numbers of the controllers are 404XX.

http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/5738/dsc02738q.jpg


HOLY HELL, is that a box you own or someone else's? If it's yours, does it do anything or is it a gigantic tape deck sized paperweight?

[Buyatari]

You should have just sold it with no reserve. Auction may have gone higher. You will have problems trying to get that same price outside of eBay. If you didn't want to pay fees sell it on the Chuckwagon.

[Twilight]

HOLY HELL, is that a box you own or someone else's? If it's yours, does it do anything or is it a gigantic tape deck sized paperweight?
It's my unit.

I don't have the software so I can't use it.

[Enigmus]

It's my unit.

I don't have the software so I can't use it.


So... Dolby C noise reduction paperweight, huh? That sucks.