Odyssey Market

[Paet]

Ugh... Is it possible that one person has single handedly ruined the Odyssey market? Of course I am talking about this jerk right here (http://myworld.ebay.com/sams_super_systems/). He has won most of the auctions for Odyssey items and then, in turn, he marks them up 200 to 1000 percent of what he bought them for.

Is this a commonly know problem among Odyssey collectors, and I am just now finding out? This is ridiculous!!

[SPAZ-12]

I've known of one or two seller on eBay that always have Odyssey systems priced 300% above actual value and up for awhile now. I don't think this is anything new, you just have to ignore those sellers; I'd like to think that if no one bought from them they'd lower their prices...

[Ryaan1234]

Ugh... Is it possible that one person has single handedly ruined the Odyssey market? Of course I am talking about this jerk right here (http://myworld.ebay.com/sams_super_systems/). He has won most of the auctions for Odyssey items and then, in turn, he marks them up 200 to 1000 percent of what he bought them for.


Ick. That's really douchebaggy (yes... I just invented that word).

Is he buying up Odyssey 2 stuff also? That's really the only Odyssey system that I'm concerned about. Don't get me wrong, the original Odyssey is cool, but I just like number 2 a bit better.

[Paet]

Is he buying up Odyssey 2 stuff also? That's really the only Odyssey system that I'm concerned about. Don't get me wrong, the original Odyssey is cool, but I just like number 2 a bit better.

No, I think that O^2 is common enough that one person can't jack up the entire market.

I did look at his store, he has common Pong systems and R.O.B.'s for way more than what they're worth.

Odyssey is uncommon enough that one person really can control it, apparently. As a collector and a lover of games, that's depressing.

[Atari 5200]

Well, when he figures out they won't sell...

But wait, how did this happen?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Magnavox-ODYSSEY-with-batteries-1972-ser-7108729_W0QQitemZ360197478166QQcmdZViewItemQQptZVi deo_Games?hash=item53dd715716

[Orion Pimpdaddy]

Ugh... Is it possible that one person has single handedly ruined the Odyssey market? Of course I am talking about this jerk right here (http://myworld.ebay.com/sams_super_systems/). He has won most of the auctions for Odyssey items and then, in turn, he marks them up 200 to 1000 percent of what he bought them for.

Is this a commonly know problem among Odyssey collectors, and I am just now finding out? This is ridiculous!!

If he's buying them for cheap, why are people not outbidding him then?

[GrandAmChandler]

Check his completed items, not much of his stuff sells....

[portnoyd]

Wow, what a moron.

[BetaWolf47]

Man that's depressing... his excuse is "Sure I sell for high prices, but my stuff is professionally restored and guaranteed to work!" as if collectors somehow have trouble touching up their carts.

[diskoboy]

The same thing happens in the arcade market. And it's made me wanna quit collecting, but I somehow muddle on. The same can also be said of people who buy arcade games (especially pre-crash classics), then MAME them, or turn them into a 1000 in 1 game, and have the nerve to ask $3000 for a machine I wouldn't pay $100 for.

Nothing infuriates me more than these "companies" who buy up video games, then mark them up about 300% of what they're truly worth - this is why I no longer deal with Ebay.

[BetaWolf47]

The same can also be said of people who buy arcade games (especially pre-crash classics), then MAME them

Wouldn't that be considered maiming them?

[diskoboy]

Wouldn't that be considered maiming them?

Exactly.

MAME'ing a classic pisses me off to no end. There are a few exceptions, but usually it boils my blood.

[Steve W]

He has the nerve to charge $225 for a boxed Atari 2600. And it comes with two games! If they're not Crazy Climber and Swordquest: Waterworld, I think you're getting hosed.

[Sosage]

Exactly.

MAME'ing a classic pisses me off to no end. There are a few exceptions, but usually it boils my blood.

Not to derail, but the argument can be made that a lot of those cabinets would wind up trashed anyways instead of being fully restored.

I mean, I feel you. I've been collecting arcade hardware since 96 and have seen so many fucking converted and mame'd horrors in person. You shouldn't mame a good condition Tempest or Warlords cocktail, but if the alternative is it winds up in the landfill...

...back on topic, arcade collecting always has and always will be cornered by the operators. It's kind of similar to this Odyssey situation, except there is a sleazy, carnie-style element to the people hoarding the games. At least, those games that are left. ;(

[diskoboy]

Not to derail, but the argument can be made that a lot of those cabinets would wind up trashed anyways instead of being fully restored.

I mean, I feel you. I've been collecting arcade hardware since 96 and have seen so many fucking converted and mame'd horrors in person. You shouldn't mame a good condition Tempest or Warlords cocktail, but if the alternative is it winds up in the landfill...

I agree.

As I said, there are a few exceptions to the rule, but don't turn around and try and sell 'em for astronomical prices. I can build my own, from scratch, for much cheaper.

I'll shut up, now, before I totally hijack the thread.

[Game Freak]

Not only is he overconfident of his Odyssey prices, he is overconfident about the contents of his auctions.

http://cgi.ebay.com/POKEMON-LOT-OF-12-WITH-2-SOFT-PLUSH-E19011_W0QQitemZ250418953582QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_ DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3a4e21fd6e

the two "soft plushes" aren't even pokemon. They're neopets.

[mezrabad]

As someone who has paid quite a bit for some of the rarer Odyssey games (1973 releases in particular) I'm shocked at the prices of this guy's stock.

I would bet he didn't pay a lot for these, probably just got them all at estate sales, it's about the right time in the systems' lifetime to start being discovered in the attics of people being moved into nursing homes and the cemetery. Figure the system purchased in 1972 would have been purchased by established adults. $100 back in 1972 was about $400 in today's monies. So, if you had that amount of cash to throw away on a new toy, you were probably grown-up and with a real job. Almost 40 years later you're going to be at least 60, but more likely pushing 70. Your kids are all grown up, you've got grandchildren, you're moving to a smaller house or dying. Your stuff is being found in the attic and this guy's picking it up at estate sales.

He's ahead of the "glut", there's probably going to be a lot of Odyssey stuff turning up in the next 5-10 years, so much that I would bet the value goes down considerably. He may be slightly ahead of the glut though and people not knowing any better are everywhere.

[Paet]

Here's a conversation that with this seller that someone posted on another forum:



For the past year or so, it's been pretty well known among collectors that just one person has been artificially inflating the prices of Magnavox Odyssey items by %100 to %1000. He's been buying up all of the auctions at fair market values and then massively marking them up. Even the prices in off-eBay transactions have been going up as a result.

The two known eBay accounts that he uses are:
http://myworld.ebay...._super_systems/
http://myworld.ebay.com/robotkingnes/

I decided to send him an email to ask whether he knows that he's a crook. Here's the conversation that ensued. And no, I didn't edit his spelling or grammar to make him look stupid.

Rev. Rob:

You should read this: http://www.pong-story.com/odyssey.htm

Dick:

thanks, I know it very well, what is your problem? So what is eating you? Did I buy something you wanted? Look at completed auctions, you will see I have sold a set for 1000, David Winter does not even mention store sales. Yes He knows me well. His blog is a buyers guide, I will pay his prices all day long. Most units I buy do not work, I have tohave them repaired. NO OTHER SELLER SHOWS THEM WORKING.

Rev. Rob:

The particular problem is that the prices you charge in your eBay store are reprehensible. You know that, because you paid significantly less for the items that what you're selling them for.

$4000 for the 1973 game pack? It's worth more like $200.
$600 to $900 for Odyssey sets? They're worth more like $200 to $300.$300 for the lightgun? It's
worth closer to $100. $500 for the 1972 game pack? It's worth more like $75.

I know, because those are the prices that I paid for complete and working items, mostly right here on eBay. It's not just your Odyssey prices that are outrageous either, I look through your store. Common items like a 7800, Pong systems, and ROB the Robot are marked up 300 to 500 percent more than the market value. $125 for a complete N64? I mean, really?

No, you didn't buy anything I wanted. While twenty dollars for an Odyssey power supply was
reasonable, the vast majority of your items are so overpriced it would make Dick Fuld grin.

Dick:

Who is Dick Fuld? I am selling off the wall. I guess not everyone reads the Forums. I am sorry if you and David do not agree with my prices, but at least my buyers get a working system, unlike all the ones sold on ebay for the prices you quote. And yes, all my Robs work.

I guess you missed the point of it all. I am not trying to sell these high priced items, they are there just to attract viewers to look at them. If someone really wants them, I will listen to offers, like the set I just sold for 1000. So who is to say what they are worth. They are worth what ever people will pay for them.

Rev. Rob:

The market is to say what they're worth, like if someone were to invent a website where an auction can be held, then whatever the item sells for would be the market value. That's a pretty good idea, I home someone does that one day.

I don't know if you know this or not, but because of you gamers/collectors don't buy or sell Odyssey games on eBay any longer. It's all gone to web forums, personal sites, and conventions. Ever heard of self-cannibalism? It's relevant.

Dick:

SO, some people flip houses, cars, what ever. I have chosen to buy and sell video games systems and have been doing it for over 30 years. I am almost 70 years old and started collecting at age 9, by buying stamps and coins. I made great money on coins and old cameras from 1970. Even wrote books and started a collector club, over 5000 members worldwide. So why are you so upset that I have been buying and selling these. 9 out of 10 DO NOT WORK and I spend money having them rebuilt. No one has ever gotten a broken system from me. My feedback speaks for itself. If people are willing to pay 5-600 for a complete system, I am ready to sell it. I have sold over 30 so far, most over 300. I am not screwing anyone. With me they see exactly what they are getting, unlike the broken, incomplete systems offered on ebay auctions. As for selling on auction, they suck.

Ther has always been a wide devide between Sellers and Collectors of anything. Collectors want to buy it cheap as posible. Also most sellers on ebay do not ship foreign, most of my big money comes from overseas.

Rev. Rob:

No, I just think that "people" want to buy things at fair prices. Auctions don't "suck," in fact, auctions are the international standard for setting the value of rare object. Further, your analogy of people who flip houses is a serious fallacy of logic. Investors buy houses low and then sell them at market prices. You by them at market prices and mark them up 300 to 400 percent.
If an investor tried to do that with a home, they would never sell any. As word continues to get out about you and your ethically grey practices, I doubt your sales will be all that good either.
You've really become quite notorious.

Dick:

So who are you? your image shows GOD and u call yourself a rev., are you god or a preacher????????? Not very God like. You buy action figures and sell nothing, so I guess you are a 30 something kid just trying to cause pain.

I do my best to be a good seller, the fact that I take the time to know what I am selling, lets me charge more and get it. I have always sold my items at higher prices because I find people will pay much higher prices for items that are working and from someone who knows what they are selling.
I have something that no one else ever had, 2 stores that offer complete working systems from PONG to Play station, all working. No one has even come close to my inventory and I guess that is frustrating to some collectors.

I have had a lot of people saying they will pay more for an item if it is in better condition. And I offer all different conditions.

As for the sites that are bad-talking me, I can not find any, but I have heard of them for ages. I know David has taken lots of space on all his sites to slam me, he is no longer posting warning to Magnavox buyers telling them what year the system was actually made, because I have been doing that for him and I have bought all that have come up for sale. I even bought all the inventory of the Atari.com web site, with 2 cib systems, rifle, cib, case, and 30 of the rare extra games, most cib.

So, I am sorry you have a problem with me, but I get lots of others who write just to tell me how wonderful it is to find a sellers who has such great inventory and knows what he is selling. These letters out weight the 1 or 2 like you.

Go in peace and the love of God,
Dick Sanford

Rev. Rob:

Has anyone ever told you that your name suits you?

I am pretty sure you're delusional. Do you think it's possible that you're speaking to the Lord? And what does my being a reverend or buying action figures for my children have to do with your immoral monopolistic behavior? Greed is a sin, and the Lord hateth a him that soweth discord amung men, a lying tongue, and he who devises wicket plots. Using His name for slander is also a no-no. You can allow your soul to fall into ruins, but I thought you should know that you have some work to do, especially for a man of year years.

I would love to see some letters, not reps, but actual letters, of people saying how wonderful
your prices are.

Your wide-ranging "inventory" is a moot point. This is eBay. Aside from Odyssey items, everything you sell is offered by another seller for 200% less, and in equal or better condition.

There is no justification for greed, Dick, not in the eyes of men, not in the eyes of God.

Furthermore, I do see Winters' warning about prices like yours on his website? http://www.pong-
story.com/odyssey_sales_warnings.htm

The question is, why do you lie when the lie is easily shown to be invalid? Obviously, the prices that you charge are well above the market value. These are the prices that you purchased your consoles at, by the motivation of greed, you mark them up and artificially inflate the value.

If you were a fair merchant, you could sell your items at auction or at market values. However, you're not. Greed has won you over. You're the same as the money changers at the Temple in Jerusalem.

Finally, you're not sorry that I "have a problem with you." You are the unrepentant servant of greed and money. Your morality means nothing to you. I am sorry for you, for the kind of person that you are.

Obviously you feel that your immorality is justified.

Dick:

well I guess we will not agree on this issue, and that is fine. The ones I buy at fair value are not complete, and 9 out of 10 do not work at all. So people who buy them on line are getting shafted, where as people who buy them from me are getting fully working and complete systems. My repair man gets 100 dollars per hour and has to spend hours fixing most of the systems. So my buyers are getting great value for their money. Greed is not my intention, but selling something complete and working, that they, and I can be proud of.

Rev. Rob:

I wasn't comparing your prices to prices of broken console, I was comparing your prices to those of complete, working sets. Thanks for the interview, though.


-------------

He didn't ever provide any of the fan letters that he bragged about having. Nor did he provide any documentation about the costs of his so-called repairs.

It's a real shame that one greedy scammer can ruin an entire retro market.

[TonyTheTiger]

This whole thing is retarded. If his prices are too high then the market will fight back. He'll find himself sitting on a lot of unsold merchandise. Then he can either keep the items (as they would be worth more to him than whatever payment the general market is willing to pay) or he'll lower the prices if selling the item takes priority. If his items are selling then clearly there are people out there who are making the conscious choice that they value the item more than they value the equivalent amount of money in their wallets. Economics 101. He's not cheating anybody provided he's not actually lying about his merchandise or otherwise committing fraud.

[Rickstilwell1]

Who really gives a crap? He can keep his consoles if all he wants to do is show them off and be silly about prices. When he dies they'll all be resold anyway. He's 70, right?

[Sosage]

The house flipper analogy may actually be incredibly accurate here, seeing as the last generation of flippers were buying the houses at above market price to begin with (and look at how painful shit is when the market needs to revert back to actual values). Hey man, he's just trying to flip his flipped warez! No one likes being at the end of the deal chain. ;)