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AB Positive
10-15-2009, 12:13 PM
I've always been fascinated by these two (mostly) Japan-only computers. Of course Konami got it's major breaks in Japan on the MSX and the X68000 is said to have some great arcade ports. Still - other than emulating to try them out (which always feels flat compared to the real thing) what are some other collector's/gamer's opinions on these two machines?

Also - are there more interesting Japan-only computer machines I'm missing?

Tempest
10-15-2009, 12:16 PM
I have an MSX 2+, but importing games for it is expensive. I've been trying to find a cheap US source for cartridges, but no luck so far. I've got a bunch of disk images that I've been meaning to copy over and try out though.

I'd love to import an X68000, but everything is so expensive! That's definitely a system that you need to be dedicated to if you're going to collect for it.

There's also the PC-8001 and SC-3000 computers that were only released in Japan. The SC-3000 is basically a Sega SG-1000 (precursor to the SMS) with a keyboard and very little software, but the PC-8001 got a ton of games.

Tempest

Bill Loguidice
10-15-2009, 01:59 PM
I have several MSX 1 and 2+ systems and a decent collection of games and accessories. I try to snatch up what I can if a game pops up cheap on eBay, though it's typically from Japan. As with all systems, I'm interested in adding an X68000 system to my collection, but I can't really think of anything on it that would appeal to a non-Japanese speaker, and they tend to be very expensive systems to acquire, so the odds of me actually getting one ever are slim at best. My personal recommendation would be to get a hold of a good MSX2+ system, as the MSX standard has a great International community around it and you're far more likely to find stuff to buy to use on it.

Gapporin
10-15-2009, 03:16 PM
There's also the PC-8001 and SC-3000 computers that were only released in Japan. The SC-3000 is basically a Sega SG-1000 (precursor to the SMS) with a keyboard and very little software, but the PC-8001 got a ton of games.

I think I would go for a PC-9801 before I got a PC-8001. First off, they're (relatively) more plentiful to find, since at the peak of the PC-98, they controlled over 60% of Japan's computer market, and secondly, the games are better looking and more varied -- if you wanted a quick and dirty analogy, you can think of Japan's PC-98 being our DOS machines. They used different parts and specifications, but they are both somewhat similiar. The PC-98 starting to trail off its popularity in 1990, but the last one manufacturered was in 2000.

</history lesson>

Also, I'll echo Tempest's sentiments: I have an MSX2. I NEED a X68000.

Tempest
10-15-2009, 03:22 PM
I think I would go for a PC-9801 before I got a PC-8001. First off, they're (relatively) more plentiful to find, since at the peak of the PC-98, they controlled over 60% of Japan's computer market, and secondly, the games are better looking and more varied -- if you wanted a quick and dirty analogy, you can think of Japan's PC-98 being our DOS machines. They used different parts and specifications, but they are both somewhat similiar. The PC-98 starting to trail off its popularity in 1990, but the last one manufacturered was in 2000.

</history lesson>

Also, I'll echo Tempest's sentiments: I have an MSX2. I NEED a X68000.
Ahh that's the one I was thinking of. The PC-98.

Tempest

98PaceCar
10-15-2009, 03:37 PM
I picked up one of the One Chip MSX systems about a year ago and really enjoy it. It's nice to be able to run images on it from an SD card instead of needing to track down the carts. I've also got a Zemmix, but it would be much more cost effective to get a traditional MSX than trying to track down one of those.

Add me to the list of people wanting an X68000. I came really close to getting one, but the deal fell through in the end. But it's on my list to buy as soon as I find one reasonably priced.

Soviet Conscript
10-17-2009, 01:38 PM
i've never had much of a problem finding cheaper msx games (cart only). i just have a msx2 with no disk drive so i want to eventually upgrade to a nice 2+

there are several versions of the X68. the "compact" versions seem to be cheaper and more common on ebay but they lack the iconic double tower look, they also sprt 3.5 dick drives which i find wierd because almost all of the x68 software i've come across is on
5 1/2 disks. the are also other versions of the computer some with faster cpu's or hard drives that were made as the system evolved over the years

noones mentioned the FM towns computer. most people i suppose are more familier with the fm towns marty which is the consolised version but there is a much more capible fm computer which comes in 2 models, the first being the more powerful.

JapanesePeso
10-18-2009, 07:27 PM
There were actually a lot of different FM Towns models. If you're looking at buying one (or any other Japanese consoles) nikdog made a nice list of resources for the models and their specs here:

http://www.risingstuff.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=1366

Yeah, if you're seriously into FM-Towns a tower is a lot better than the console and probably about the same price after shipping. Not to mention way more obtainable.

Ze_ro
10-18-2009, 10:51 PM
I've always wanted to get an X68000, but the thought of importing a matching monitor kinda kills the whole idea (Yeah, I could probably run it on something else... but I wouldn't be able to resist the sexiness of this kind of setup (http://www.team-endless.com/idx_gif/x68_redzone.jpg)).

I want to get an MSX one of these days, but haven't put a lot of effort into it yet. The wide variety of hardware kinda stuns me every time, with the Yamaha CX5M being my dream machine.

As for other Japanese computers, check out this page (http://andre.facadecomputer.com/saw/pc88.html)... That alone is enough to make me want a PC-8801!

--Zero

Arkhan
10-19-2009, 03:23 AM
I have an MSX, an MSX2,and two 2+'s sitting here. They are great machines. Getting a good working one in NA is a bit of an experience, and the game importing is kind of a mixed bag, but the games are great. Some really REALLY sweet action games live on the MSX.

I have a pretty big bin of MSX carts, and some Disk games too. If you're ok with sometimes having to bite the bullet on shipping, and are OK with opening the beast up and swapping out the FDD if it suddenly goes out, an MSX and real games definitely beats the emulators! The FM music for Microcabin games is worth it all by itself.


X68000 is of the same deal. I dont have as much for it, but thats because I blow all my money on MSX and PC Engine stuff. :-D They are sexy though.

I also have a nice PC9800 setup, though, in all honesty, unless you are REALLY horny for having a real one, there are a few exceptional emulators out there that will boot real disks, and CDROMs. So you could collect real games (even 5.25's).

I actually have Pretty Sammy sitting in my CDROM drive right now and tested that.

The emulators even do some port communication and stuff. I am pretty impressed. The PC9800 emulators might be the best computer emulators around.

The PC9800 is the thing to get into if you love digital comics. Definitely. Thats half the reason I bought it!

AB Positive
10-19-2009, 10:24 AM
MSX seems like (to me) the next possible entry in my retro computer nook, next to the LC520 mac and my lovely a500 Amiga :D

Now to find one without needing to hack off a limb... I've heard of MSX flashcarts or multicarts out there... I wonder how easy it would be to procure so one could run the english translations floating about.

I want to play an 8-bit Metal Gear that doesn't suck, please :D

Soviet Conscript
10-19-2009, 12:45 PM
I've always wanted to get an X68000, but the thought of importing a matching monitor kinda kills the whole idea (Yeah, I could probably run it on something else... but I wouldn't be able to resist the sexiness of this kind of setup (http://www.team-endless.com/idx_gif/x68_redzone.jpg)).


--Zero

thats funny Zero cause thats the exact reason i didn't buy a FM marty not long ago. i could afford the system but i wanted the monitor/keyboard ect to have a matching setup. it bumped things just up a little over what i could afford so i passed. damn heavy monitors

blue lander
10-19-2009, 01:05 PM
As far as Japanese computers go, I have an X68000, FM Towns, an MSX 2, a MSX 2+, Fujitzu FM-7 and FM-77, PC-88, Sharp X1, Tomy Pyuuta, IBM PC JX, Casio PV-2000, and probably one or two others I've forgotten to mention.

If I was to recommend which to buy, I'd get an X68000 and an MSX 2 because they have the most games playable to non-Japanese speakers. I would not recommend a PC-98 because there don't seem to be many action games for the thing, and the few that they are have superior X68000 or FM Towns version.

http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/3229/1000007lh6.jpg

That's a picture of my current computer setup. I don't keep everything plugged in at once, but you can see the X1, FM-77, PC JX, PC-8801, and X68000. They all work off the same monitor.

Importing the machines can be a pain, but don't bother importing the monitors unless you're really hell bent on everything color coordinating. Just buy an old NEC Multisync II and wire up the required adapter.

Tempest
10-19-2009, 02:02 PM
What's the thing with the cartridge slots? Those look like a PCjr cartridges.

blue lander
10-19-2009, 02:03 PM
It's the PC JX, the Japanese version of the JR. They're not very software compatible, although you can physically stick a JR cartridge in the JX. I tried putting Pitfall II for the JR and the JX, and it loaded fine. However, the screen was inverted (the underground areas were on top and vice versa). There isnt anything really notable about the computer other than it's one of the computers that Thunder Force I was ported to.

Soviet Conscript
10-19-2009, 02:27 PM
heres a question for you guys that have an MSX, MSX2, MSX+.

are there any incompatibiblites between versions backwards compatible wise? say if someone wants to play all the MSX has to offer all you would need is a MSX2+ right? (i know theres a turbo as well)

Arkhan
10-20-2009, 02:03 AM
heres a question for you guys that have an MSX, MSX2, MSX+.

are there any incompatibiblites between versions backwards compatible wise? say if someone wants to play all the MSX has to offer all you would need is a MSX2+ right? (i know theres a turbo as well)


More or less. An MSX2 would be fine too. The 2+ just usually has some nice stuff added in, like onboard FM so you dont waste a cartridge slot with an FMPAC. All MSX games will work on an MSX2, and all MSX2 games will work on a 2+. AFAIK there are no actual "MSX2+ required" games.

The Turbo R is NOT needed. Ever. No justifications other than development or extreme OCD.

As for flash carts,etc. theres the CF reader from Sunrise, it functions like a giant floppy disk. So it wont let you fire up any ol' cartridge rom. Some will work though provided you have enough RAM! They work great for disk images though.

If you want to play Metal Gear without paying out the ass for it (So expensive!), they have an SCC flasher cart, its got 512k ram and SCC music. Good stuff. Great stuff actually.

They're actually really easy to find. A bit pricey since theyre from Europe, but they are worth it!

http://personales.mundivia.es/mpazos/flashrom/index2.html

:)

I would go with an MSX for your next Japanese computer for sure. Good blend of action, rpg, text / graphical adventure games. Alot of translations exist for it too. Hell some of the games dont even need translation, theyre just playable as is.

I'd start with Aleste, Hydlide 1 -3 , the DSlayer games, Undeadline, and anything Konami makes. Thatll be a good start to tasting the MSX.


Then try out Compile and MicroCabin games. Fray is the best game ever for the MSX. :)

Tempest
10-20-2009, 08:23 AM
It's the PC JX, the Japanese version of the JR. They're not very software compatible, although you can physically stick a JR cartridge in the JX. I tried putting Pitfall II for the JR and the JX, and it loaded fine. However, the screen was inverted (the underground areas were on top and vice versa). There isnt anything really notable about the computer other than it's one of the computers that Thunder Force I was ported to.
They made a Japanese PCjr? No way! Will the PC JX games play on the PCjr at all? I'd love to see Thunder Force on my PCjr.

Pitfall II ran inverted? I wonder why? That's weird! Did the game still play or was it crashed?

Tempest

Arkhan
10-20-2009, 08:24 AM
Pitfall II ran inverted? I wonder why? That's weird! Did the game still play or was it crashed?

Tempest

I wonder if it has anything to do with Japan reading things Right to Left and that causing it to get reversed if a pin layout or orientation is flipped on the Japanese one.

maybe.*_*

blue lander
10-20-2009, 08:47 AM
I'm pretty sure JX games won't run on the Jr. The JX uses 3.5 inch disks with a weird format that can't be read on PCs. I tried making a disk image of Thunderforce and running it from a PC Jr emulator, but it wouldn't load at all. I haven't tried plugging the JX 3.5" drive directly into my JR yet, so I suppose it's possible that might work. I have a cartridge for the JX that forces it to behave like a normal PC, but when I put that cartridge in the JX-only software won't work. I have 3 or 4 games for the thing. A couple adventure games, a golf game, Thunderforce, and Polaris III.

If I had more Jr cartridges maybe I could determine why the screen is flipped, but I assume it has something to do with the video memory being mapped differently.

Tempest
10-20-2009, 09:26 AM
I just read that the JX has a special high resolution mode that the JR doesn't have. I assume most of the good games make use of this and won't work on the JR.

A Japanese PCjr... Wacky!

Tempest

slapdash
10-20-2009, 10:31 PM
I for one would love to see pix of PC-JX cartridges, if any of your games are on cartridge... Please?

blue lander
10-21-2009, 07:25 AM
The only cartridge I have is the "PC Mode" one that makes the JX act like a PC, unfortunately I don't have any games. I don't even know if any exist. It's really hard to find anything on the internet about the machine, even if you search Google Japan.

When I found a copy of Thunderforce for the JX, I googled the Japanese name of Thunderforce and JX, and nothing came up! I don't think even the Japanese knew it existed. A couple Japanese guys sent me PMs when I posted its existence here a few years ago, asking for manual scans and whatnot. The funny thing is I found the game completely by accident, it came with the JX I bought off of Yahoo Auctions Japan, but it wasn't advertised as being included or anything.

There's a few screenshots and a picture of the disk in this thread: http://digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=77255

slapdash
10-21-2009, 09:49 PM
Yeah, I couldn't find much of anything when I did a search. Oh well. To anyone who finds this on Google trying to get rid of their JX carts -- pick me! ;-)

smork
10-23-2009, 03:09 AM
I've got a Towns Marty, a PV-2000, and a bunch of x68000 software (but no system). I've been keeping an eye on the systems as there are a bunch of good deals to be had. I'd also really like to get a Towns II.

I saw a really nice Pyuuta set recently (boxed with several complete games) but I am about to get into some bidding wars this weekend so I will take care of those first :)

Soviet Conscript
10-23-2009, 11:56 AM
I've got a Towns Marty, a PV-2000, and a bunch of x68000 software (but no system). I've been keeping an eye on the systems as there are a bunch of good deals to be had. I'd also really like to get a Towns II.

I saw a really nice Pyuuta set recently (boxed with several complete games) but I am about to get into some bidding wars this weekend so I will take care of those first :)

i like the look of the towns II but isn't it signifigantly less powerful then the towns I? weaker GPU or something.

blue lander
10-23-2009, 11:59 AM
I've got an FM Towns II, a Towns Marty, and a Car Marty and every Towns game I have plays on all three of them.

I used to tell people if they could only get one Japanese computer, to get the X68000. The PC-98 and FM Towns might be great computers, but they just don't have a large library of games you can play if you don't understand Japanese. The great thing about the X68k is that it has terrific ports of arcade games. But in the era of MAME and emulators, is that so important? There's still quite a few games for the X68k that are great and aren't ports of arcade games you could just emulate, but I think the MSX has a much better library of unique titles.

ApolloBoy
10-25-2009, 12:58 PM
I had an MSX2, but since I had trouble finding carts for it and couldn't figure out how to make floppies for it, I pretty much had no choice but to sell it. An X68000 would be nice but I hate dealing with floppies.

blue lander
10-25-2009, 03:38 PM
It's been awhile since I've done it, but I think you can write msx disks from any PC. The really hard part is finding double density disks to write them to. High density disks won't work.

ApolloBoy
10-26-2009, 08:52 PM
It's been awhile since I've done it, but I think you can write msx disks from any PC. The really hard part is finding double density disks to write them to. High density disks won't work.

They actually do work if you cover the hole with tape. I tried formatting a few HD disks on my MSX this way and it worked.

blue lander
10-27-2009, 08:27 AM
I've only had 50% success with that method, but maybe it depends on the disks. What I don't like is that if you try to format the disk in 2dd and it fails, you can't reformat it as 2hd so you just wasted the disk.

Arkhan
10-28-2009, 09:00 AM
writing MSX disks to fdd on linux is one of the easiest methods of doing it, even if you just use a cygwin environment.

you type ONE command and POW the disk is ready for the msx

ianoid
10-31-2009, 06:13 PM
I have a Yamaha MSX that was released in the US. It's the one for MIDI. It has a cart slow and requires a round RGB cable like those used on the old Commodores and original Gen. I'd love to sell it, it's a spare. It is missing one key. I'd love to get $65 for it. It's probably the best way to get your MSX on with a native unit.

AB Positive
10-31-2009, 11:25 PM
I saw that on eBay and was reeeeeeally tempted.

I guess my main questions would be:

1) can it play UK cartridges/disks?

2) can it play JP carts?

Would you be interested in trading perhaps? I have a GeForce 9800 that I've wanted to trade for something semi-juicy.

The yamaha interests me specifically because I love making music with old computers and systems. Having one semi-tweaked towards music already means I'd probably prefer it.

Ed Oscuro
11-01-2009, 01:14 AM
I have all three, but with MAME and now the ability to play some original JAMMA boards (not well though) I don't make much time for these computer games right now. The many ports of arcade games I have I bought mainly out of a sense of completeness.

I must have well over 50 X68000 titles (possibly even before dupes which I also have many of), and not nearly as many MSX2+ or FM Towns games. The rarest game I have across these three systems may be the FM Towns port of Blandia.

Systems:
3 X68000
X68000 Ace HD (disassembled heh, and apparently busted monitor), X68000 XVI Compact, and an amazing boxed regular X68000 XVI. I have a Tuner which outputs lousy RCA video (not even S-Video, sheesh). I haven't been able to get a picture from it (when using the Compact, at least). Yeah, after 6+ years I STILL can't use one of the systems I have the most games for...and these are games that may not all have data integrity when I finally get to use them. Feh. Anyway, I shall continue to attempt to get them working when I have time.

1 MSX2+ Sony F1-XDJ. If only this had the specs of the 1MB+ Turbo R computers, it would be the ultimate. As it is, it's wonderful for Aleste II, Space Manbow, and Undead Line just has slowdown in parts. Ren-sha turbo and CPU speed sliders make it a joy to use for most any game even without a controller.

2 FM Towns
FM Towns Car Marty with boxloads of accessories (no doubt bought for too much; I've seen some good deals on Car Marty packages recently, this was a few years ago though when it was still one of those "exotic" systems drawing collectors like moths to flame), and a FM Towns II in its original box, with a monitor in another. Untested still, but I expect it'll work fine.

I agree with Blue Lander that the MSX seems to have the best selection of unique titles. Aleste II and Space Manbow alone are system-sellers for me, and I've got Nemesis III as well (I passed on Nemesis II - I have that one on X68000 as Nemesis '90 Kai, and I hope I won't regret it because Nemesis '90's music seems pretty crap compared to the MSX2 version's, at least the early tracks, going by the tape soundtrack I own).

I have had success writing MSX2 floppies from Windows using Rudolf Lechleitner's Disk Manager (http://www.lexlechz.at/en/software/DiskMgr.html) program, made specifically for MSX disks. What's more, it's apparently been updated since the MSX FAQ's outdated link shows a version 0.11; it's now at 0.12.


1) can it play UK cartridges/disks?

2) can it play JP carts?
I believe that with an appropriate tape recorder you can play anything, so long as the machine's specs are up to the spec of the software (i.e. no running Turbo R software or features on MSX2+ or lower hardware, and no MSX2 anything on MSX1 machines, and so on). It's always possible that some software will be wonky if designed around 50Hz refresh, but that ought to be it; I don't believe there is any lockout (though it's best to get that from a better source). Hmm, I have a few European MSX games that I could check out shortly.

ianoid
11-01-2009, 07:14 AM
1) can it play UK cartridges/disks?

2) can it play JP carts?

Would you be interested in trading perhaps? I have a GeForce 9800 that I've wanted to trade for something semi-juicy.

The yamaha interests me specifically because I love making music with old computers and systems. Having one semi-tweaked towards music already means I'd probably prefer it.

Yeah, I don't have the music keyboard, I would like to get one eventually if space permits. I bought this unit at a yard sale in Orange County when I lived there 8 years ago. They had the keyboard too, but I didn't have the space at the time.

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but there is no regionality to MSX, similar to Colecovision and SMS (not including Mark III, etc). And as far as hooking up a disk drive, you should be able to, but I don't know much about that. I don't do disk-soft for most obscure systems.

I wish I'd had this opportunity when I bought your C128! I would love to have traded. Cash is king though. But I don't need a graphics card. I don't play PC games.

Arkhan
11-01-2009, 11:56 AM
The Yamaha CX5M is pretty worthless. It's an MSX1 so you won't be getting much of your MSX on with it.

No disk games, only cartridge ones. Tape too if you can find a tape unit. They really aren't great for games.

The computers aren't region specific since that would kind of go against the point of the MSX standard. The only difference between Euro and Japanese models aside from PAL (which doesn't matter if you use RGB!) is that alot of Euro models came stock with 128k ram instead of 64k, so some euro made stuff (cracks) wont work unless you have more ram.

Your best bet if you really want to get into the MSX is finding an MSX2 or 2+. The Turbo R never really had any commercial exclusives (There was a Fray game that had voice samples on the turbo r. whoopeee), so dropping a huge wad of cash on a computer with features you dont need is pointless.

If you're developing, or going apeshit with MSX and putting all sorts of extra stuff on it, then yea a turbo r is probably a nice idea.

A nice Sony/Sanyo/Panasonic MSX2/+ will suit all of your needs though.

Ed Oscuro
11-01-2009, 02:13 PM
All excellent points; I didn't realize it was that CX5M being mentioned. Getting one of those really limits your choice of software.

A MSX2+ is really the minimum for a serious MSX user, since without it Space Manbow and Undead Line will be garbage.

The Turbo R actually got a bit more use than you suggest, though I just discovered that what I had always thought - that Undead Line benefits from a Turbo R - is actually wrong; it's just marked for MSX2 and 2+ units. So there's actually very little use for the Turbo R, outside from maybe some of the Ys games or something (I forget what). This makes me feel much better, although it's not nice to find out that there's no way of beating Undead Line's slowdown.

Arkhan
11-01-2009, 05:39 PM
The Turbo R was released only in Japan, had no need-to-have exclusive titles, and no real merits to own it other than bragging rights or development power.

Every game you'd ever want to play works on a MSX2 or 2+ and none of them really benefit from being run on a Turbo R

Ed Oscuro
11-01-2009, 09:41 PM
The MSX2+ wasn't sold in America either - I think that also was Japanese exclusive; even if it wasn't who wants to import a 220V machine? As I've said before - I really should test this out in BlueMSX - if the Turbo R runs Undead Line, that'd be a real pro for the system. I've no clue though since it either emulates the VDP of the MSX2+ or includes one; neither seems likely to offer different performance. I believe I've seen a list of the Turbo R exclusive games, don't recall anything that stands out.

The only thing I'll say is that any Turbo R exclusive I'd want to play (Illusion City?) I'll emulate. :D

Arkhan
11-02-2009, 03:53 PM
The MSX2+ wasn't sold in America either - I think that also was Japanese exclusive; even if it wasn't who wants to import a 220V machine? As I've said before - I really should test this out in BlueMSX - if the Turbo R runs Undead Line, that'd be a real pro for the system. I've no clue though since it either emulates the VDP of the MSX2+ or includes one; neither seems likely to offer different performance. I believe I've seen a list of the Turbo R exclusive games, don't recall anything that stands out.

The only thing I'll say is that any Turbo R exclusive I'd want to play (Illusion City?) I'll emulate. :D

Nothing useful in terms of MSX was released in North America. When I say Japanese only I mean in terms of the countries that were lucky enough to get MSX releases besides the pisspoor MSX1 stuff. That's the reason why the Turbo R doesnt have alot of software. Only one country got the model, whereas the other stuff was spread all over.

a Turbo R can run anything ever released for the MSX line of computers, and the list of exclusive titles isn't much. Illusion City is one of the only ones of any consequence.

an MSX2+ isn't really that much different than a 2. It usually has some extra feature, usually MSX-MUSIC built in. Nothing groundbreaking that makes it a must-have. FM-PACs are cheap and have SRAM so they're good to buy anyhow.

NA people have to import either way, so if a Philips NMS8250 is just as available as an HB-F1XD/XDJ/XV , it wont make much difference which one you get. In fact the Philips 8250 is easier to open and replace things, has room for 2 FDDs, and has 128k ram stock, so its actually better than a stock Japanese MSX2.

Ed Oscuro
11-03-2009, 03:46 AM
The lecture is starting to grate on me. Sure, a lot of the "MSX2+" marked software just needs a MSX2, but no MSX2 is going to run Golvellius 2 or Space Manbow properly. Having the FM-PAC built-in saves another headache.

The Turbo R doesn't have a lot of software because the computer's market share was gone. DOS-V had shown up by that time and even the market leader's (NEC) market share was disappearing rapidly.


NA people have to import either way
I get the feeling this discussion has been...stunted. I already said that!

Thanks for making me look into why so many MSX2 games also have the MSX2+ on the front (marketing, and the music ROM is built in; not necessarily use of hardware scroll).

AB Positive
11-03-2009, 05:25 AM
OK, so how exactly does one procure an MSX2 system (or 2+ because having recently tried Space Manbow... yeah, 2+ then :P ) in the states?

Is there an online shop people trust for imports or are you folks good with the Rinkya?

Soviet Conscript
11-03-2009, 06:09 AM
OK, so how exactly does one procure an MSX2 system (or 2+ because having recently tried Space Manbow... yeah, 2+ then :P ) in the states?

Is there an online shop people trust for imports or are you folks good with the Rinkya?

well, i think shipping is still going to kill you

theres always here
https://www.risingstuff.com/store/index.php/cPath,18/osCsid,a7ce0gslssaatqto1on7d11nq7

i think JGS only stocks games for it but you can still check there. I see them on ebay alot but price varies and they are usually a JP or EU seller.

i lucked out on my MSX2 and found one CIB by a NA seller on the PCEnigneFX forums but that was the only MSX i've seen on a forum and havn't seen one for sale since

pseudonym
11-03-2009, 06:52 AM
When you're dealing with heavy, bulky items from Japan personally I would just wait until someone based in the US/Canada has one, thru an online store, ebay, or another forum. It'll probably cost a little more, but you'll save on shipping costs. Unless you go with surface mail, but it can be a pain too.

I got my MSX2+, a tape unit, and some software from a seller in the US.

Also, Rising Stuff is a great store, despite the recent thread here about them.

Arkhan
11-03-2009, 10:23 AM
An MSX2 can run Golvellius and space manbow just fine. I don't know where you are getting that you need an MSX2+ to enjoy them. A philips NMS82xx series MSX2 can play them perfect. Having the horizontal scroll of the MSX2+'s VDP doesn't really make the game different. Its cosmetic. Plays the same without it. :drinking:

A 2+ also doesnt have an FM-PAC built in. It just has MSX-MUSIC. You don't get the SRAM so you would still need a regular PAC if you want to have an external save device.

:texaschain::angry::devilish:


if you want to import the options are:

find a european with one since they speak english usually so communicating is alright. If you go this route youll need a stepup converter, and like a 1084S monitor to use RGB since trying to use PAL in USA is stupid. (unless they sell you a JP model)

and then you can go on ebay, this guy RKLok sells import japanese MSX's from the netherlands, but he charges out the ass for everything. He shipped me 3 games wrapped only in newspaper overseas and they showed up smashed and wet since it was snowing out. Beware.

and then there is rinkya, etc.

All routes will cost a shitload to ship :( It sucks really.


You can find an MSX2 euro model for around 20$ and maybe 100$ to ship it. Lots of spare Philips models floating around. They are the easiest ones to open up and do things to since they're a desktop platform one instead of a wedge-keyboard.

AB Positive
11-03-2009, 11:20 AM
I have a 1702 so PAL tv modes are no problem as long as it's A/V out - I was thinking a Brit model anyway since I also eventually want to nab a Speccy... but the power step-down might be tricky.

Shipping's always a bitch. I found quite a few nice a600s on eBay.uk a while back, less than $20 USD all of 'em... but nearly $70 to ship even without power. Annoying, to say the least.

Arkhan
11-03-2009, 12:16 PM
Well the Amiga power bricks are light compared to the C128 / 64 ones... :-D thats why they didnt make a shipping difference.


If you are NA, youll need a step UP transformer. We put out 110 and it wants 220. You can get a working step up for about 9$. Those travel ones work since the computers use low amperage. No need to buy one of those expensive ass brick ones that takes up the space of a coffee brewer. I bought 3 of them off ebay. they're tiny little black ones w/ blue chinese writing all over em. They work great.


If you're going Euro-MSX, shoot for a Philips NMS model. You won't regret it!

They (NMS) have composite out, I *think* a 1702 will work out ok. You might get B&W image, and want to cry. Making an SCART to RGB cable isn't too hard though.

(though they weigh more since they're in a metal casing)


Rising Stuff had an MSX2 at one time, but iirc it was a Panasonic A1WX and has no disk drive, which does not help you at all. You could get a CF cartridge and use that as a giant FDD, but that's costly. Those are around 50$

Ed Oscuro
11-03-2009, 03:18 PM
Grab some popcorn folks, untangling this one is gonna take a while.

:popcorn:

An MSX2 can run Golvellius and space manbow just fine. [...] Having the horizontal scroll of the MSX2+'s VDP doesn't really make the game different. Its cosmetic.
There is something inherently wrong with you telling me not to trust my own eyes. I would bet money you have not actually used a real MSX2+ due to your unfamiliarity with its actual features. This is no smear against your character; it's just hard to find good sources of informati-oh wait (http://www.faq.msxnet.org/msx2p.html). I appreciate your contributions, but you have made some errors that I would like to address.

MSX2+ hardware scrolling feature[/url]
I look at the MSX2 game Nemesis II (on real hardware) and can imagine Space Manbow moving like that - no thank you. I can just barely deal with Nemesis II, and even Space Manbow on the MSX2+ is not as smooth as I would like (ideally, of course). That's bad for my eyes, and for judging movement when the background is jerking along slower than the sprites; it's not just a "cosmetic" issue. Both Nemesis II and Space Manbow (and Nemesis III, aka Nemesis '90 Kai on the X68000) use the Gradius formula of hiding warps and peppering the game with walls you can crash into, so it's directly related to ship movement as you need to be able to dodge the scenery as well as bullets and enemies. A buddy of mine who bought my first MSX2 and my spare Space Manbow later is NOT satisfied by the poor scrolling, and is waiting for the day he can get a MSX2+. I ought to ask him if he's played Space Manbow on the MSX2, but I'm pretty sure he has and was disgusted. Both of us are semi-serious shooter players (I'm no good at them, but that's all the more reason to get all the help I can by playing them on the intended hardware). I had thought the unique MSX2+ features were more widely used than they are, and appreciate being informed otherwise - but you're way off the mark in saying that they are no use for the games designed with them. I appreciate your correcting some disinformation on my part, but you're spreading some of your own making.

I think the bottom line is this: If you don't plan on playing any of the games that use MSX2+ features, by all means be happy getting a plain MSX2.

Yet paying $200+ (which would be an excellent deal) for Space Manbow and then cheaping out on the computer to play it on doesn't make a mite of sense. It wouldn't likely be that big a savings either - $100 for a MSX2 seems to be the going rate (I paid $150 with shipping out of Japan back in August 2002, without knowing any better, for an MSX2 and a couple boxed SFC games [Ogre Battle 7 & Shin Megami Tensei II], which brings the price down to $70 if not cheaper). If you're seriously considering paying RKlok's prices for MSX2 units, + or otherwise, you ought to look elsewhere. Do so fast, though, because his prices may well soon become the norm.


[RKlok] shipped me 3 games wrapped only in newspaper overseas and they showed up smashed and wet since it was snowing out. Beware.
I'm surprised he did that, and sorry to hear it. I was buying my MSX2 stuff some years ago straight out of Japan - with a native English speaker, so I had no problems. I have been interested in some of RKlok's stuff, and told him that if the prices were more competitive I might actually buy something. As it is, it's impossible to spend so much on his stuff.

[b]European MSX2 units vs. Japanese MSX2 or 2+

find a european with one since they speak english usually so communicating is alright. If you go this route youll need a stepup converter, and like a 1084S monitor to use RGB since trying to use PAL in USA is stupid. (unless they sell you a JP model)
It sounds like you have had a tough MSX experience. Buying a European model if you live in 120V NTSC territory makes no sense because of the limits on video and the sheer amount of support hardware you need. You can use Japanese units with a cheap step-up - if you so desire, it's not actually necessary. A model that will more than cover the MSX series costs only $30; you can get a 1000W model - which will more than drive the biggest retro computer and monitor you can find - for roughly $80; compare that to importing 220V region consoles where you must buy a stepdown transformer at roughly the same price. Note that the 220V stepdown transformers all step down to 110V - so buying a 120V to 110V stepdown transformer leaves you right where you started with the Japanese unit without a transformer.

Video is the other big issue. Buying a 1084S monitor is outrageous (and actually shouldn't be necessary even if you get a European MSX; just fool with the pinout to make it compatible with the NTSC world's RGB, or better yet don't buy a European MSX); they're older than most of the MSX consoles. There are other solutions for RGB; save the 1084S monitors for the computers they were designed for. My Japanese Sony F1-XDJ MSX2+, and the Panasonic FS-A1 before it, both have composite video with mono audio, and additionally RGB output. No fooling around with this SCART stuff is required (although the cables may well be the same before taking the different pinouts into account; mine uses a SCART style connector to plug into a XRGB2, and the traditional Japanese round connector on the other, which is something of a standard for retrogaming), and they also work fine on any domestic NTSC television with RCA jacks. Better than some of the original Japanese television game consoles from what I understand. Certainly better than packing along a bunch of stuff to play your MSX games on a television - all I need is a single empty space in a power brick to plug in the MSX's slim connector, and two RCA jacks for the mono sound.

MSX-MUSIC confusion

A 2+ also doesnt have an FM-PAC built in. It just has MSX-MUSIC. You don't get the SRAM so you would still need a regular PAC if you want to have an external save device.

:texaschain::angry::devilish:
You are confused. References for what I'm about to distill for you: #1 The Ultimate MSX FAQ - MSX2+ section (http://www.faq.msxnet.org/msx2p.html), #2 - Same site, PAC and MSX-MUSIC section (http://www.faq.msxnet.org/fmpac.html). The FM-PAC is MSX-MUSIC. You do not need the FM-PAC with a MSX2+, whose introduction marked when all manufacturers started routinely building MSX-MUSIC compatibility into their computers. It did not happen before with the MSX2 (~1986).

The front of my MSX2+ clearly says "FM SOUND" on the front. It's not called FM-PAC or MSX-MUSIC because those are Panasonic's names for their terrible hackjob audio expansion. Everybody else just adopted the audio features because software developers already had started using the expanded capabilities, making support by other manufacturers a necessity going forwards. It serves Panasonic right for arguably betraying the intent of making the MSX a standard.

On the point of SRAM, I believe you would still need a cartridge for saving if you had MSX-MUSIC built in, as it just adds the music. The Pana Amusement Cartridge just integrates that to sucker people into buying it. On a MSX2, you can buy a save-RAM cartridge without the music, and this is all you'd need on a 2+.

tl;dr roundup:

Japanese MSX2+:
- Play the game as it was meant to be, dodging scenery with the greatest of ease, while enjoying not getting a headache
- You don't need ANYTHING to play them on a US television besides what they came with (my Sony machine has the power lead built right into the console; the Panasonic FS-A1 has a unique, heavy, and rather nasty, power brick)
- You don't need to buy an FM-PAC for MSX-MUSIC; it's in many 2+ units if only by another name on non-Panasonic units. You have a wider choice of SRAM cartridges as a result.
- It's expensive and heavy to ship

European MSX2:
- Enjoy Nemesis II-style painfully slow scrolling and having walls lurch into view
- YOU MUST Buy heavy and expensive 220V to 110V step-down transformers
- YOU MUST Buy an obscure and hard-to-find monitor ~or~ other expensive video support equipment just to get a picture (you'll still need to get the sound output somehow; on the Japanese machines this should be a discrete signal in the RGB cable).
- Is a disk drive built in?
- It's still expensive and heavy to ship
- You need to buy an FM-PAC or similar for MSX-MUSIC because it wasn't built in.

Arkhan
11-03-2009, 08:57 PM
There is something inherently wrong with you telling me not to trust my own eyes. I would bet money you have not actually used a real MSX2+ due to your unfamiliarity with its actual features

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/Android77/IMG_1093-1.jpg

You're right. I've never used an MSX2+. Should I take a picture of the XV also? Or are you done being pretentious.. Good thing you didn't bet money.

As far as "improvements", Golvellius is OK scrolling no matter which VDP it uses. On MSX2 it just uses the line copy method instead of scrolling it in. You know they figured out smooth scrolling with software before the 9958 right?

Space Manbow uses the adjust register instead of the scrolling on an MSX2. It plays the same. I've played on an NMS8250 and it is perfectly fine. Thats a European MSX2.

Plus if your complaint is the jerky scrolling, I suggest you not bother much with an MSX in general. Unless you plan to not play any MSX1 or MSX2 titles that dont scroll super smooth which are most of them. The rest of the MSX gaming world knows how to cope with it.


You can use Japanese units with a cheap step-up - if you so desire, it's not actually necessary

Uh. Duh...

hmm..

There is no extreme limit to video when buying a Euro model, and a 10$ step up transformer isn't exactly support hardware. You make it sound like having a european model is a huge chore. Its quite simple really. Almost as simple as just having a Japanese one.

You do not need some heavy disaster stepup/down for low amperage old computers. I was stepping up with a travel electric shaver adapter for awhile. Radio shack sells some decent ones cheap too. So "heavy" and "expensive" need not apply.

PAL/NTSC makes no difference in ANY games once you have a picture on screen. and for that matter if you're forking out the cash for an expensive overseas machine, buying a 1084S or equivalent RGB ready monitor is nothing. I've got 3 of them. One was free, one was 30$, and the other has been in my house for over a decade from an A500. Plus making an SCART to RGB cable is trivial at best. You can make it without even soldering the wires. twisting and taping works fine. RGB is independent and has nothing to do with NTSC/PAL so I don't think I follow your "fooling the pinout for NTSC rgb".

All you have to do is take a the video wires from SCART and connect them to the right pins on an 8-pin din. its trivial. Color matching. A toddler could do it. Not sure how there is really a better solution. Hell you could even take the audio wires from the scart and make the cable have RGB DIN and audio connectors on it and it'd be an all in one SCART to North America cable.

There are even some mods you can do to be able to use composite and get color. Or you can get one of those pricey boxes. If you're forking out a load of cash for the overseas stuff, having a box to deal with PAL if you need to isn't so bad.

I'll assume you haven't touched a Euro msx. They have mono audio out on the back of them. You seem to think its all shoved into the SCART. It has composite out on the back too.

The 1084 is one of if not THE best, most used, and widely sought out RGB monitors of the retro computing era, younger than some MSX computers (not MSX consoles. Sheeesh), not even MADE by Commodore in the first place, and very versatile. They are just Commodore skinned.

Using them for the computers they were designed for? Cmon, really? Should Atari users buy Atari monitors, and MSX users buy MSX monitors (Which don't formally exist)? I've seen the 1084/1702 monitors used with Atari, Commodore, Amiga, Tandy/CoCo, MSX, TI, and more. They were designed for anything that can be plugged into them, not just stuff with matching logos. Hell I have a PC Engine plugged into one right next to the MSX2+ that I've never used.

oh and it has built in speakers, so... you can plug the audio cable right in the back next to the video cable. No real puzzler to get the sound output since there is mono out on the back of the european models just like the US ones. It's even got a headphone jack built in. Have you ever actually used/seen one in the flesh?

If you can't find a 1084S, there are other RGB monitors in existence which will do just fine.


You are confused. References for what I'm about to distill for you: #1 The Ultimate MSX FAQ - MSX2+ section, #2 - Same site, PAC and MSX-MUSIC section. The FM-PAC is MSX-MUSIC. You do not need the FM-PAC with a MSX2+, whose introduction marked when all manufacturers started routinely building MSX-MUSIC compatibility into their computers. It did not happen before with the MSX2 (~1986).

The front of my MSX2+ clearly says "FM SOUND" on the front. It's not called FM-PAC or MSX-MUSIC because those are Panasonic's names for their terrible hackjob audio expansion. Everybody else just adopted the audio features because software developers already had started using the expanded capabilities, making support by other manufacturers a necessity going forwards. It serves Panasonic right for arguably betraying the intent of making the MSX a standard.

On the point of SRAM, I believe you would still need a cartridge for saving if you had MSX-MUSIC built in, as it just adds the music. The Pana Amusement Cartridge just integrates that to sucker people into buying it. On a MSX2, you can buy a save-RAM cartridge without the music, and this is all you'd need on a 2+.

The FM-PAC was the first MSX - Music cartridge. There was a PAC BEFORE the FM-PAC which was a save ram only cartridge. Its called the FM-PAC because it has FM MUSIC AND PAC save features. I think YOU are the one who is confused. Thats what happens when you read the ULTIMATE MSX FAQ like its a bible. Everyone knows to take that thing with a grain of salt.

The point of the original FM-PAC, and it's clones (which don't include save features and hence are not called FM-PAC), is to give computers without FM audio the ability to have them without spending the cost for the MSX-AUDIO cartridge (The Philips Music Module). It's no shame on Panasonics part. Thats a stupid, overly opinionated thing to say and sounds like it is fueled by the editorial on the MSX FAQ about the FM-PAC. Europe never even got an MSX2+. Does that make all of the European manufactures wrong for never doing so? No. Not really. I mean you can clearly see how vital the + model was since nothing outside of Japan and Korea even got one.

Plus if you use the FM-PAC on top of the built in FM, you can do some strange things with audio.

MSX-MUSIC and MSX-AUDIO are both a standard.

That's why if you use music software on an MSX (I will assume you never have), you can output to MSX-MUSIC, MSX-AUDIO, SCC, and PSG. It doesnt say "FM" or "FM SOUND". There are standards. Follow them.

It says FM sound because that is more marketable to the average buyer than MSX-MUSIC.


And before I forget, the Philips line of european models can have TWO disk drives installed. The only JP ones to do that are the HB-F700 and F900.

Good luck finding one of those for 10$ like you can with an NMS

Ed Oscuro
11-03-2009, 10:37 PM
You're right. I've never used an MSX2+.
What I'm interested in finding out is if your wonderful PAL machine is actually running at 60Hz or just 50Hz.


Plus if your complaint is the jerky scrolling, I suggest you not bother much with an MSX in general.
We're not here to ask your permission. I'm just trying to interject some facts into the discussion and my impressions. Would you kindly dispense with the infantile behavior? Thanks.

Back on topic:

You're right that there's actually not much difference in Space Manbow between MSX2 and 2+ - looks like Konami was full of marketing baloney, and not optimizing their games. I fell for it. I'll admit this. Thanks for the correction, but keep the attitude.


[quote]There is no extreme limit to video when buying a Euro model, and a 10$ step up transformer isn't exactly support hardware. You make it sound like having a european model is a huge chore. Its quite simple really. Almost as simple as just having a Japanese one.
Once more - no special monitor is needed in NTSC territories to get a great-looking picture out of a NTSC MSX2 / 2+. No transformer (and lol @ $10 transformer). The big issue I forgot to mention is the 50/60Hz one - if the machine is set for 50Hz the game will play slower than it was meant to and the music is downtempo. Both are bad things.


I was stepping up with a travel electric shaver adapter for awhile. Radio shack sells some decent ones cheap too. So "heavy" and "expensive" need not apply.
That all depends on


PAL/NTSC makes no difference in ANY games once you have a picture on screen.
That's not a high standard. What about the game playing at the right speed, and the sound not being slower than usual? Those "cosmetic" details are more than slightly important to some of us. Playing any of my Japanese NTSC games at 50Hz would drive me up the wall.


If you're forking out the cash for an expensive overseas machine, buying a 1084S or equivalent RGB ready monitor is nothing.
If you're forking out the cash you might as well do it right the first time and get the MSX2+ which will output both mono composite and RGB so you have flexibility and the correct output frequency.


RGB is independent and has nothing to do with NTSC/PAL so I don't think I follow your "fooling the pinout for NTSC rgb".
SCART is not Japanese NTSC. Anybody who has experience with Japanese machines knows this. The pinouts are different; the refresh rates are different.


I'll assume you haven't touched a Euro msx.
That is also a correct assumption.

I'd love to see a video capture out the back of one of these machines; I'm not a betting man as you noticed but I'm fairly certain the game plays too slow.

They have mono audio out on the back of them. You seem to think its all shoved into the SCART.
No, I know it has composite. It just happens that having audio on the RGB lead is standard in Japan. It's true for 15-pin (http://www.gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id=av:japanese_rgb-15) and 21-pin (http://www.gamesx.com/avpinouts/rgb21pinj.htm) as well. When Europeans start making consoles and upscalers like the XRGB2 that I can use together on the full range of domestic PC equipment, I will likely...have to hack together an ugly cable. With Japanese NTSC, I can use one cable for everything. This RGB cable will work on the many different machines that have a RGB port - even the ancient SC-3000 I have lying around.


Should Atari users buy Atari monitors, and MSX users buy MSX monitors (Which don't formally exist)?
No. The MSX user should just be aware that there are other options available, such as the XRGB2, the MultiSync XM29, and many others - all much newer than the 1084S and similar. A moot point for AB Positive (at least until that monitor dies), but significant for others who don't have them lying around, or who are interested in planning ahead.


The FM-PAC was the first MSX - Music cartridge. There was a PAC BEFORE the FM-PAC which was a save ram only cartridge. Its called the FM-PAC because it has FM MUSIC AND PAC save features.
Yes, that is what I wrote. What was in dispute was your assertion the MSX2+ units don't have MSX-MUSIC built in (without ever having used one so you would know the difference - the better to "take it with a grain of salt," I suppose). Most do. The unit you linked a picture to, identical to mine, has it built in. It's just called FM SOUND here because Sony isn't using Panasonic's term. These music extensions are functionally identical.

Yes, we know that the PAC is a save-ram only cartridge. If you have a MSX2+, all you need for save ram is a PAC, non-MUSIC; you don't need the MSX-MUSIC features. That is why I said you have a greater range of options for save RAM.


It says FM sound because that is more marketable to the average buyer than MSX-MUSIC.
It says FM SOUND because that's what it is - it describes the actual chip inside, which Japanese consumers would have known from consoles such as the Japanese Mark III FM sound unit, or the Japanese Sega Master System, possibly certain Famicom games with special mappers, and other systems. MSX-MUSIC doesn't describe what it actually is. When the MSX2+ machines were being rolled out, there was no MSX-MUSIC standard set forth by ASCII - not until the Turbo R. The other manufacturers likely didn't want to credit Panasonic for creating it, yet had to incorporate those features as they had already become a de facto standard.

You made a point somewhere about your favorite PAL - region MSX having the capability two disk drives. I would like to point out that, according to your own criteria, this isn't very useful (for gamers) and thus isn't a selling point for most users; thus you ought to discredit it entirely. For practical usage it doesn't interest me much - I can use any disk game that I care to just fine on my apparently crippled MSX2+ with its paltry one built-in disk drive ROFL

From where I'm standing: MSX2 non-plus requires an extra cartridge for MSX-MUSIC, which chips away at any savings from not buying a MSX2+. The speed of the PAL area units likely stinks to high heaven, and yes, you still need a step-down transformer. I'm not surprised you could get by with a cheap one...but as we've both been fond of saying, it doesn't make sense to get one that doesn't have a fuse in it and a little extra wattage capacity would be a smart idea as well (for the ability to use it with other devices if nothing else).

I sincerely hope that clears up the last of it.


There are standards. Follow them.
Quote of the day.

Arkhan
11-03-2009, 11:05 PM
Attitude? Sorry, I guess I tire easily of people who use excessively over confident phrases like "get out the popcorn, this ones going to take awhile to untangle", followed by false assumptions, and incorrect information/statements.

I only said the thing about scrolling and not playing MSX because well, basically every MSX1 game is herkyjerky, and most MSX2 games are too, so if you don't like it, you're screwed.

I never said MSX2+'s don't have MSX-MUSIC built in. When did I say that? I said that they don't have an FM-PAC built in, because they sure don't. If you type _FMPAC without an FM-PAC installed, you sure as hell wont be taken to the FM-PAC screen. There is a definite difference between having FM sound capabilities built in, and having an FM-PAC built in. When will you understand this. Understanding this would have probably made you less willing to bet money that I've never used an MSX2+

It's pretty commonplace to refer to the onboard FM of the 2+ line as MSX-MUSIC. Technicalities and splitting hairs doesn't accomplish much. Moonblaster, and Oracle for example use MSX-MUSIC/AUDIO as the indicators. Not "FM SOUND" and "OTHER FM SOUND"

(and as a side note, that is my MSX2+ HB-F1XDJ, incase you didn't realize that)

as far the PAL/NTSC thing, the refresh rate of the VDP doesnt effect the games unless the coder uses that timing mechanism explicitly. That's why when I put Hydlide 1, 2 or 3 in my NMS8250 it plays the same as it does in an HB-F1XV. Sure you will run into some games that are slow, but you can overcome that problem with a few lines of typing at the prompt IIRC (you can set the VDP refresh rate manually). I've run into I think two games that run slow and can't even remember what they are.

You are aware that the majority of European MSX users use Philips models and play all of the Japanese games without issue because it isn't an issue?

Also, if the soul purpose of your MSX endeavors is to play games, why even get a real one? Blue/OpenMSX suit that perfectly fine. Yes having real hardware is better, yadda yadda, etc. etc., but for the sake of saving money/hassle, it's alot easier to emulate. Every machine except I think ONE has all of the system ROMs available so that you can set an emulator up to use an exact computer models system roms. Its pretty nice. I use my MSX for more than games, so two disk drives is pretty handy.

Id like to know where I said that having two disk drives is a bad thing. Some games benefit from two disk drives.

again as for the 1084, sure there are some other options, but if you are setting up a dedicated MSX station, having a monitor beats having a TV any day.

Whats so funny about a 10$ transformer? I can't help it you can't find them cheap. Or do you feel the need to buy the over the top brick sized ones that over-accomplish the mundane task of stepping up a low power 8bit computer. Please note, its STEP UP not STEP DOWN. Stop saying step down. How do you step 110v down to 220v?

These work fine:

http://cgi.ebay.com/110V-to-220V-50W-Step-Up-Transformer-Converter-AC-Power_W0QQitemZ380174156029QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_D efaultDomain_0?hash=item58842540fd

:dance:

Ed Oscuro
11-04-2009, 08:18 AM
Oh man I must've been having a bad day yesterday. ROFL I missed or misread half of your points, unfortunately I can't blame them on sarcastic misleading comments like the MSX2+ pic. Ah well, live and learn. I apologize for having wasted your (and my own) time quite so much, but at least I learned a couple things.

Sure you will run into some games that are slow, but you can overcome that problem with a few lines of typing at the prompt IIRC (you can set the VDP refresh rate manually).
Something else to fool around with, great.

It's weird that you disparage the MSX2+ / Turbo R for having some extra features that can be used for games (guess what this site is dedicated towards?) and yet argue for a system running in a region where most people will have to use the step-up, can't use their TV, have to set the refresh manually on a couple games, and so on.

A PAC would be just a luxury if one has a 2+, and by not using one I leave the second cartridge slot open. I personally don't have a use for it.

If having the second disk drive is more important than NTSC video for you, that's great, but most folks here would rather be able to plug into their television - that's also all that one might be able to afford. The "just use an emulator" comment is almost best left unaddressed; by using real hardware we (hopefully) learn things about the hardware and history; not only this, but most folks have bigger televisions than computer monitors. Warping of the screen, inconsistent brightness and dot crawl aren't a major issue for me with the NTSC composite of the MSX2 / 2+ - less annoying than having the background jump around in Space Manbow (which is not to say that I need use composite with the MSX2+; I can use RGB as well).

Arkhan
11-04-2009, 08:51 AM
In the interest of importing, its sometimes easier to locate a working Euro one for cheaper than a Japanese one. Like I said, you can find them for like 10 Euro.

In most cases, people setting up old computers are looking to setup a "80s esque" setup, so factoring in a monitor is a given.

If you're planning to plug into a TV then yeah, you are probably better off getting one that matches your native refresh rate, unless you already have the means to deal with it or don't mind getting the stuff.


and, a PAC is just a save cartridge. They're still useful with a 2+. FM-PAC is the one you don't need so much.

http://gigamix.cocolog-nifty.com/blog/images/050126GR4_L.JPG

Theres 2 FM-PACs and a regular PAC


also, note the little music note logo on the FM-PAC. You can note the same logo on the XDJ below the FDD casing, and on the box.

Thats the MSX-MUSIC standard's logo.

Ed Oscuro
11-04-2009, 01:35 PM
Very interesting - I thought that PAC was only the name of the MSX-MUSIC enabled cartridges. I thus limited my searches to "save RAM" which doesn't bring up much - I could have looked for PACs all along! They aren't much use to me since I play the shooters straight through, but it's nice to know. I recall recently seeing a Konami cartridge (I believe), with I think a gold Pentarou or Konami Man on the cover that I thought was a save cartridge, although save RAM cartridges seem rarer than I had thought. Of course, if the MSX-MUSIC enabled PAC is the most common by far, it's probably still best to get that one for cost reasons.

There is one last question I have, then: What difference is there between the Sony F1-XDJ and the XV? When I bought mine, I had the option of getting the XDJ or the XV. I'm happy with mine, but I've been troubled ever since by the seemingly identical features between the two machines. As best I can tell, they both have the same MSX2+ features (the FM chip, one disk drive), the ren-sha and CPU speed sliders, the kanji ROMs, and MSX-JE. I've always been puzzled how Sony could have differentiated the two in the market because they don't seem to be different.

Arkhan
11-04-2009, 05:29 PM
There is one last question I have, then: What difference is there between the Sony F1-XDJ and the XV? When I bought mine, I had the option of getting the XDJ or the XV. I'm happy with mine, but I've been troubled ever since by the seemingly identical features between the two machines. As best I can tell, they both have the same MSX2+ features (the FM chip, one disk drive), the ren-sha and CPU speed sliders, the kanji ROMs, and MSX-JE. I've always been puzzled how Sony could have differentiated the two in the market because they don't seem to be different.

The main difference between an XDJ and an XV is the MSX - MUSIC quality there were supposedly some circuit rearrangement to reduce noise. Nothing major really. The other difference is the case progression by the FDD.

XD: Red
XDJ: Gray
XV: Black

dont fret over having an xdj instead of an xv.

Arasoi
11-06-2009, 02:46 PM
I own a Sony F1-XV, and it's a great little system. I got it to be able to play Space Manbow and some others on real hardware.

I've been using the composite video output so far, I just haven't gotten around to making an RGB cable to plug into my NEC XM29 monitor yet.

It's definitely a fun adventure for anyone who likes 8 bit gaming.

Arkhan
11-06-2009, 05:01 PM
the msx is far and wide the best 8bit computer in terms of features and game variety

The machines are built far better than the C64 too.

TheRogue
11-10-2009, 02:50 PM
Hey, greetings from Vancouver, BC, Canada! I've been a lurker for a while on this forum, but not posted much. I just had to contribute to this topic though. I am a collector of classic computers and game consoles. In regards to this topic I have a Panasonic FSA1-ST MSX Turbo-R upgraded to 512k of mapper memory, a Sunrise IDE interface with hard disk and CD-ROM, and MegaFlashROM SCC 512k for playing MegaROM images. I also have a Sharp X68000 XVI with XsimmVI memory upgrade and original monitor, keyboard, mouse/trackball and original system software in the original plastic disk case that came with the computer. I'm in the process of acquiring an FM Towns as well. I have many many other computers, but these are the ones that seemed relevant to the topic. If anyone wants I can post pictures of these machines for you all.

Arkhan
11-10-2009, 03:55 PM
thats one expensive as hell MSX setup!

:) very nice. Have you considered toning the sunrise IDE down to the CF reader instead? I imagine the one you have now is pretty desk-covering!

pictures! now!

TheRogue
11-10-2009, 05:14 PM
Ok here's some pics. The X68000 just arrived today, and the monitor hasn't arrived yet (tracking says it's waiting for delivery so it should be here either tomorrow or Thursday since tomorrow is a holiday and I don't know if there is delivery service or not) , so I just have pics of the machine and accessories, no pics of it running yet. When the monitor arrives I'll post more pics of the X68000 XVI, but till then enjoy these pics of the MSX and X68k. They're both zip archives to make saving easier.

X68000 XVI Pics

http://www.divshare.com/download/9289652-5e6

MSX Pics

http://www.divshare.com/download/8987805-281

Ed Oscuro
11-10-2009, 05:20 PM
Out of curiosity, what did the XVI cost you? Mine was basically new in its original box, twist tie around the monitor cable, bags around everything. $1000 give or take $100 (worked out a small price cut because I was getting another item at the same time).

And I still don't have a working X68000 monitor. Still hopeful I can get that tuner to work.

TheRogue
11-10-2009, 05:31 PM
The XVI, monitor, keyboard and so on was 40,000 yen, the total cost of the computer including shipping was $1300.00 Canadian dollars, cause I had it shipped in 2 boxes (one for computer and such, one for the monitor) 3 day EMS from Tokyo to Canada. I got it off Yahoo! Japan.

Arkhan
11-10-2009, 08:20 PM
pretty nice setup! Did you get that from bas, or did it just happen to be one he worked on? :)

Battlehork
11-10-2009, 09:14 PM
The XVI has the power to make your dreams come true

TheRogue
11-10-2009, 09:25 PM
pretty nice setup! Did you get that from bas, or did it just happen to be one he worked on? :)

You nailed it, I bought the Turbo-R from Bas over the summer. Cost a pretty penny but it was worth it. For all those out there who say having a Turbo-R isn't worth it I challenge you to actually use one and say that again. I don't mean go try an emulator, I mean actually use one. When you switch into R800 mode, games that suffer from slowdown are suddenly beautiful, MSXDOS runs so smooth without pausing for a split second after printing each line, it's wonderful.

Ed Oscuro
11-11-2009, 09:27 AM
games that suffer from slowdown are suddenly beautiful,
Rats. :D

I don't play Undead Line all that often, though...

TheRogue
11-11-2009, 12:41 PM
Undead Line runs great on a Turbo-R. I'll take some video and post it one of these days.

Arkhan
11-11-2009, 01:55 PM
Undead Line runs great on a Turbo-R. I'll take some video and post it one of these days.

flying into R800 mode only works on some games (non-interrupty ones, ones that support the R800, hacked up versions of games), and sometimes doing so brings glitches and weird crap.

Ed Oscuro
11-11-2009, 02:56 PM
Undead Line runs great on a Turbo-R. I'll take some video and post it one of these days.
If I recall right (going through the posts on the last few pages again would give me a headache), Arkhan said it wouldn't make a difference. I am pretty sure I read some time ago that UL does great on a Turbo R, but I recently checked the package and there's no mention of it. UL suffers some hideous slowdown on even the 2+ so it would be great to have. S-Video would also be amazing.

The day when I look for a Turbo R is far off, though; I have a lot of stuff with higher priority. I also wouldn't sell or trade the 2+ unless I can find that the Turbo R has the autofire and speed sliders, which I find pretty handy.

Arkhan
11-11-2009, 03:03 PM
theres a way to switch on R800 mode, and some games will play faster but they werent DESIGNED to do that. Even the ones that were designed to, it doesnt really make or break the game. If it did, everyone would own a Turbo R


some were designed for it but its not a necessity.


Undead line had a hacked up version you could load that takes care of it. Not that its a big deal since the slowdown isn't even bad

Ed Oscuro
11-11-2009, 03:08 PM
Not that its a big deal since the slowdown isn't even bad
I can't say I agree, and neither does the most dedicated Undead Line player I know of (http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?t=10616). The Cave gets it particularly badly, and so does that palace place. It's usually pretty smooth slowdown and frames don't seem to be dropped, but having the game playing at slower than full speed cheapens the intended experience.

TheRogue
11-11-2009, 06:26 PM
The day when I look for a Turbo R is far off, though; I have a lot of stuff with higher priority. I also wouldn't sell or trade the 2+ unless I can find that the Turbo R has the autofire and speed sliders, which I find pretty handy.

Both models of Turbo-R have Ren-Sha turbo slider built in. They also have RGB out, which is far superior to s-video. I use the RGB out on mine, it's very effective and gives a beautiful picture. Also, UL doesn't mention any Turbo-R compatibility on the package because it doesn't contain any R800 specific code or anything designed specifically for the Turbo-R, it just runs very effectively on the R800 processor (the R800 runs at 7.16MHz, but it takes about 1/4th of the number of clock cycles to execute most Z80 instructions, so it runs at a relative speed of 28MHz, which many games benefit from)

Arkhan
11-11-2009, 07:16 PM
but it doesn't use the R800 mode unless you explicitly kick it into that mode. Undeadline out of the box doesn't benefit unless you use the modified version of the game, or if you type the necessary commands in at the BASIC prompt to get it into R800 mode.



I can't say I agree, and neither does the most dedicated Undead Line player I know of. The Cave gets it particularly badly, and so does that palace place. It's usually pretty smooth slowdown and frames don't seem to be dropped, but having the game playing at slower than full speed cheapens the intended experience.

The first time I completed Undeadline was on an MSX2, not even a 2+. The slowdown is NOT that bad, and anyone who says otherwise is prissy and high maintenance.

The guy mentions MSX slowdown one entire time and thats to say it was removed in the X68000 version. BFD. If you can't cope with slowdown, stop playing old games on old machines.

the games from an era where slowdown occured in many great games. Everyone at the time dealt with it. Like I said, if the R800 makes or breaks the whole experience, more people would own Turbo Rs.

Since they don't its safe to say that nearly the entire MSX community can handle intermittent slowdown when it occurs in games.

Hell a lot of people play it on a European machine and don't complain when the game in its entirety plays like 6% slower than it was designed.

TheRogue
11-11-2009, 07:55 PM
You are right that you need to switch the machine over to R800 mode, however there are MSXDOS2 programs that will do that automatically without you having to type commands in basic. And you're right it doesn't make or break a game, but it does make good games even better. Also, it's not true that everyone would own a Turbo-R, because they are bloody expensive. I frequent the MSX forums and many people say that they would love to own a Turbo-R but the cost is prohibitive in many cases. I had to save for a long time to get mine, but it's absolutely worth it to me.

Arkhan
11-11-2009, 08:13 PM
yes theyre costly, and also foreign to the Eurofolk at msx.org

when the thing was current, it wasn't even a hotseller because the usefulness of it wasn't really enough to make it worth replacing what people already had. Its still the case now. Everything is fine without it and 500+$ for a Turbo R isn't really worth it just to speed up a few games.

Itd be like paying 500$ to have an NES hacked up to work faster so Contra and crap dont slow down sometimes.


with all that in mind though, the Turbo R still kicks the piss out of all the other machines. Amiga's got nothin' on MSX! :)

TheRogue
11-11-2009, 09:35 PM
It does kick the piss out of all the other machines. It's a wonderful machine. I love it. It's pretty on top of it all ROFL. I have fallen in love with my X68000 XVI though. Now that's a sexy machine.

Arkhan
11-11-2009, 10:11 PM
I've always been more partial to the MSX, probably because im a sucker for digital-comic games.

and Fray.

TheRogue
11-11-2009, 11:14 PM
I've always been more partial to the MSX, probably because im a sucker for digital-comic games.

and Fray.

I'm a fan of digital novels too, but there's not too many in English on the MSX. Can you recommend any?

AB Positive
11-12-2009, 11:09 AM
This thread went from me being curious, to being entirely informational, to now making me jealous because I'm broke.


But now I know - if I can get ahold of a MSX2 or a X68000 I definitely should do so.

Breetai
11-12-2009, 11:15 AM
i lucked out on my MSX2 and found one CIB by a NA seller on the PCEnigneFX forums but that was the only MSX i've seen on a forum and havn't seen one for sale sinceI'll be selling mine soon, but it's just an MSX1. Not too expensive... except for that pesky shipping!!!

TheRogue
11-12-2009, 12:21 PM
You obviously don't frequent the msx.org forums, as there are always many MSXen for sale on that forum. I got my Turbo-R from there.

danielscheil
11-12-2009, 03:07 PM
Great topic !

I collect X68000 / MSX / FM Towns stuff for around 2 years now;
http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/6784/bild0261c.jpg
My modell is a XVI, it was around 400 euros (including monitor + seamail shipping). FM Towns is a UX with build in 9" multisync monitor, i love this little machine. (If it is to small, you can connect it to a LCD TV via VGA).

I also have a X68000 Expert but the Video board seems to be broken, it outputs only garbage :-( If someone has a broken Expert for sale please PM me ! My MSX is a Panasonic WSX MSX 2+ and it is a very great machine; game like Space Manbow Gradius II + III and Metal Gear make it worth to buy one.

If someone here is seriously interested in FM Towns gaming please do not buy a marty ! Some games run to slow on it and the video output is horrible. (And a few games do NOT run on it) You can have a loose FM Towns PC shipped for the price of a boxed marty @ yahoo.jp. ^_^

Pictures of my FM Towns connected via VGA to a 26" LCD TV;
http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/5775/dsci0152.jpg
http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/4131/dsci0154.jpg

Sorry for my englisch !

Arkhan
11-12-2009, 06:21 PM
I'm a fan of digital novels too, but there's not too many in English on the MSX. Can you recommend any?

no :( except snatcher.

It helps to be able to read the japanese >_<


I'll be selling mine soon, but it's just an MSX1. Not too expensive... except for that pesky shipping!!!

What model? O_o




But now I know - if I can get ahold of a MSX2 or a X68000 I definitely should do so

You can get a 8250 from Bas www.bas-ditta.info for 45 EUR + shipping. It aint a bad idea.

TheRogue
11-12-2009, 06:27 PM
Well the X68k monitor arrived today, but there's an issue with it. The power light won't come on and you can hear arcing electricity inside the case. You can hear part of it power up, so I think there is a cold solder joint somewhere, the tube comes on but the actual image processor doesn't seem to receive power. I'm taking it to Monitor King tomorrow, they quoted me roughly $70.00 Canadian dollars to fix it. *sigh* one more day with out an X68k

danielscheil
11-13-2009, 04:07 AM
Good luck with your monitor, i hope they can fix it !

TheRogue
11-16-2009, 07:10 PM
Well still waiting for my monitor to get fixed, but for now I have it set up on my LCD monitor with a 15KHz-31KHz converter for the software that runs in 15KHz mode. It works excellent. All that extra memory is a huge life saver. Lets me run all sorts of wonderful things. I'll post some pics of it running shorty!

Ed Oscuro
11-16-2009, 07:59 PM
Rogue, I've got a non-functioning X68000 monitor around here. You say this place quoted you $70 CAD to get fixed? What was their fee to diagnose the problem?

It's an interesting coincidence because today I've been asking around about a problem with a regular PC monitor that I wanted to get working (that has this problem - pic (http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/1865/dellp992problem.jpg)).


I collect X68000 / MSX / FM Towns stuff for around 2 years now;
Yeah, you've been busy. Nice setup, although I've not got the space to dedicate to a bookcase like that - I also like to keep my rares out of the light. It's also a bit too space-wasting for my liking. 7 to 10 * 14 = that's a lot of stuff. Last time I checked I had around 50 X68000 titles, and it only got more cluttered from there. Still got a couple X68000 games I need to find. MSX I'm more or less done with, I never cared for Laydock et c. and just want to pick up the original Aleste and maybe some of the Konami titles (except they're expensive).

an_turtar
11-17-2009, 03:02 AM
My X68000 monitor also needed to be fixed just after I got it, so my wife took it to an old classmate. Anyway, he laughed when he saw it and said it should be thrown away. In the end he fixed it for 3000 yen. The only thing was that he could only test it as a television, he didn't know if it would work with a computer attached. He fixed it up perfectly, didn't take too long either.

So, it's likely that you may get strange looks when asking about such an old monitor, but it still works just like a normal television, so maybe use that approach.

danielscheil
11-17-2009, 12:03 PM
Well still waiting for my monitor to get fixed, but for now I have it set up on my LCD monitor with a 15KHz-31KHz converter for the software that runs in 15KHz mode.
W O W !

More infos please ! ^_^

TheRogue
11-18-2009, 12:37 PM
More info about what? The 15KHz-31KHz converter? Sure. It's called an Ambery CGA-To-VGA converter. It's not as good as something like the xRGB, but it gets the job done. You can find more information about it here. http://www.ambery.com/rgbcgatovgac.html. It also acts as a YPbPr to VGA converter. I will post pictures for you guys of it in action if you want. I tried it with one or 2 other computers when I first got it, and it's performance was way below satisfactory. I honestly thought it was going to be a write-off until I tried it on the X68k. The only thing is on certain screens you can see very faint vertical bars on the screen. It's not even noticeable unless you look for it thought. By the way, don't let the name fool you, it doesn't actually work on CGA (digital RGB), so be aware of that.

Ed Oscuro
11-19-2009, 02:12 AM
NICE. Any lag noticable? Take it you had to splice up a custom cable?

The thing about the XRGB2 is that I think the designers were smoking something bad; there's an OUTPUT for X68000 monitors, but no INPUT. What the hell? Anyway, I will definitely be checking into that :D

Ed Oscuro
11-19-2009, 02:16 AM
I've always been more partial to the MSX, probably because im a sucker for digital-comic games.

and Fray.

I've always been more partial to the MSX, probably because im a sucker for digital-comic games.
See, that's what slowdown will do to you. *Cheapshot* :-D

TheRogue
11-20-2009, 10:19 AM
The converter uses the VGA Pin-out on both sides. What I did was took an extra commodore 23 pin to 15 pin converter, cut the extra pins off the 23 pin connector and rewired the port to the correct pin-out. Not the most direct solution, but it was the middle of the night, I was out of female 15 pin connectors, and didn't want to wait. Keep in mind I'm not plugging this directly into the X68000 but rather into one end of an X68000 monitor cable. It works quite well. Also, there is no noticeable lag with the image, It's actually quite impressive.

Arkhan
11-27-2009, 02:33 AM
See, that's what slowdown will do to you. *Cheapshot* :-D

Im not sure I follow you on this one, at all lol.

Tupin
11-29-2009, 01:40 AM
I just ordered an MSX2 online with 14 games for $120. It's a Sony model, an HB-F1 II. Thankfully, it's Japanese so I don't need to worry about voltage or video output. Can't wait to get it, and after reading this thread, the MSX looks even more awesome. :D

Breetai
11-29-2009, 02:11 AM
What model? O_o
Sanyo MPC-10. It's not in perfect condition, though. I'm honestly not sure of what prices on these things usually are. I put it as a lot with a 5 games, a memory cartridge (?) and a demo cart for $60. The thread is HERE (http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=138643).
Do you think that's a decent deal?

Arkhan
11-29-2009, 03:02 AM
I just ordered an MSX2 online with 14 games for $120. It's a Sony model, an HB-F1 II. Thankfully, it's Japanese so I don't need to worry about voltage or video output. Can't wait to get it, and after reading this thread, the MSX looks even more awesome. :D

Got it from rising stuff didn't ya? :)


As for that Sanyo model, 60$ aint bad. The games are pretty cool ones too at least.

mb7241
11-29-2009, 03:18 AM
I'd love to get me an MSX2 or MSX2+ with floppy drives...I've a copy of Final Fantasy that I'd like to try and play... Outside of that, the only MSX stuff I want is the two Dragon Quest games...

Breetai
11-29-2009, 04:22 AM
Got it from rising stuff didn't ya? :)


As for that Sanyo model, 60$ aint bad. The games are pretty cool ones too at least.Great! I'm not really a bit MSX expert other than what's on my emulator and the few games I've got here. To be honest, I'd love to get into it more but I'm trying to keep my collection under control and that means I'm selling my MSX.

Arkhan
11-29-2009, 04:41 AM
Great! I'm not really a bit MSX expert other than what's on my emulator and the few games I've got here. To be honest, I'd love to get into it more but I'm trying to keep my collection under control and that means I'm selling my MSX.

yeah. Its just a shame that the MSX1 in general aint too sought out other than by collectors. They're kind of underpowered since you can find an MSX2 and have a floppy drive and backwards compatibility..

Soviet Conscript
11-29-2009, 05:49 AM
Sanyo MPC-10. It's not in perfect condition, though. I'm honestly not sure of what prices on these things usually are. I put it as a lot with a 5 games, a memory cartridge (?) and a demo cart for $60. The thread is HERE (http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=138643).
Do you think that's a decent deal?

i think thats a fair price for that bundle

Tupin
11-29-2009, 06:13 PM
Got it from rising stuff didn't ya? :)


As for that Sanyo model, 60$ aint bad. The games are pretty cool ones too at least.
Yes, I did. Better I get it from them than from some eBay seller I've never dealt with. :)

danielscheil
01-10-2010, 04:23 PM
Great news for x68k gamers;

Nemesis 90 Kai is fully playable from HD !
Just copy both discs in the same directory and start the game via "autoexec" not via neme.x

TADA no need to worry about broken discs or drives ^_^

If someone has problems connecting a HD or Mo Drive to a x68k follow this guide;
http://www4.ocn.ne.jp/~debiddo/hdd.htm

And if it does not work (in my case it was different cause i use a XV modell) just ask

danielscheil
01-27-2010, 06:17 AM
Finally arrived;

http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/1844/bild0001.jpg
http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/2729/bild0002.jpg http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/8434/bild0003.jpg
LCD is fully multisync, works with X68000, PC98 and FMTowns
http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/849/bild0004g.jpg

:-)

Arasoi
01-27-2010, 11:20 AM
That Epson LCD is nice, good picture quality and looks like a convenient space saver too. Whats it's model #? I think I might look for one to permatate for my vertical arcade pcbs.

danielscheil
01-27-2010, 04:25 PM
Believe me, you do not want to play your pcbs on this monitor !
It has around 12" and the pictures are taken from a paused game.
It is not really good when things are moving around.

But it is still a true alternative for old x68k and FMT Monitors.
Games like Bubble Bobble and Sim City look great on it

I will make a short video tomorrow and give you the model number.

sorry for my englisch ! ^_^

danielscheil
04-20-2010, 02:34 PM
The german FAQs for FM Towns, MSX and X68k are now a little bit bigger, i also uploadet pictures of every game i own (x68k/fmt/msx) so if you want to see boxes and manuals visit my page. (no adds or something there, just infos) My englisch is still not good enough to translate the FAQs but if you may have specific questions, you can ask me via PM.

http://www.japan-retro.de/

danielscheil
04-28-2010, 12:12 PM
command.x and nemesis 90 kai booting from external mo drive
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnXWQvDEGZk

same with fm towns
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsX7LvhoUDQ

danielscheil
03-24-2011, 06:38 PM
Hey there;

If you are stilll playing with FMTowns, x68000 or PC98 computers, join the facebook groups x68000 club, pc98 club or FMTowns club. I really hate facebook but these groups are the only places where you can get quick help and answers from a "large" community. Unfortunately the most people in forums focus on emulators and not on the real hardware !

When you have other questions around these three computers, you can still ask me here. I am very active rightnow and writing a few new guides in german. My english is not the best but to answer questions its enough. I have configured HDDs on every system this year and most of my PC98 games run from there. Also a few x68000 games are able to boot from HDD without using the DDs and FM Towns HDDs speed up loading times very much.

Japanese computer gamers unite ! ^_^