7800 Homebrews

[MarioMania]

Seems like the 7800 homebrew is dead..The only game that poped up was Jr. Pac-Man..or I'm missing something

The Colecovision is getting more love..

Where's Donkey Kong Arcade for the 7800

[GrandAmChandler]

Have you been checking AA? There are several. Here is their 7800 forum:

http://www.atariage.com/forums/forum/4-atari-7800/page__s__5d0d6bad4ee6baea1207333d50a0336e

-GAC-

[MarioMania]

Yes I know about it..I have a thread there, I just wanted to ask the DP peeps

[7th lutz]

I don't think Kenfused has worked an Atari 7800 game since B*nq.

Pac-ManPlus is dealing with stuff out of video games. Update: He will be doing FailSafe once he is in full force.

The Atari 7800 homebrew authors that are developing games are the following people:

GroovyBee- He is really not into arcade ports. He is more into original games or make games that similar to computer game like the Boulder Dash style game he is working on. This is his first year doing homebrew games for the Atari 7800 and already completed Wasp!.

Wickeycolumbus - He is working on his first Atari 7800 game. He has done homebrew Atari 2600 games before despite the fact he is a high school student. He was born when I was a high school student! That means no one should be expecting him to complete the game right away since school already started and who knows what else he is doing at his young age like he might be involved in after school activities as I know.

Pac-ManPlus - Will be doing being FailSafe once he is get back in full force. Everyone one that follows the Homebrew Atari 7800 scene knows about the games he already completed and the games are excellent.

Here is the whole list of homebrew Atari 7800 games that are finished:

Combat 1990
Santa Simon
Pac-man Collection
Beef Drop
Beef Drop VE
B*nq
Space Duel
Asteroids Deluxe
Space Invaders
Super Pac-man
Jr. Pac-man
Wasp! (last completed homebrew Atari 7800 game)

Homebrew 7800 games that are being worked on:
Apple Snaffle (boulder dash style game)
VPong (vertical Pong)
Some surprise game that Shawn Sr. is involved with.
FailSafe - Once Pac-ManPlus is back in full force.
Homebrew 7800 game that is in planning stages:
Zelda style rpg with a time traveling theme (might be a while before it gets started since the person is working Apple Snaffle and the programmer wants to a do couple more games for the 7800 before doing a Zelda Style rpg game)

[7th lutz]

Donkey Kong Arcade is for the Super Expansion Module only. Opcode is working on a Super Expansion Module right now. Donkey Kong Arcade is not a true Colecovision game based on the fact Super Expansion Module is an add-on. That is no different than the 32x and the Sega CD are add-on consoles for the Sega Genesis.

The best way to describe the Super Expansion Module is it can go the same style of games that a Nes and SMS does. While that Atari 7800 can do Sms and Nes games, the specs of the Super Expansion Module has the Atari 7800 beat in ram, sound, and overall memory. Atari 7800 can do 512k games, but it has to a lot of bankswitching. The Atari 7800 only has 4k of ram and that limits the Atari 7800 in programming in some ways.

What the Super Expansion Module offers according to Opcode is the following:
24k of expanded ram for more advanced games
32kB of Save RAM (non-volatile memory to save any game data, like high scores, save points, etc)
- 128kB of MegaRAM (allows even more advanced games, MSX MegaROM games)
- 128kB of flash BIOS (includes the old BIOS, new BIOS for supporting the new devices, GUI)
- General Instruments sound generator AY-3-8910 (3 extra sound channels, envelopes, no frequency limitations)
- Expansion Parallel interface (to connect new types of devices, special controllers, CV-2-CV, etc)
- 3 programmable push buttons (Pause, call GUI and a 3rd button not defined yet)
- Flash BIOS includes user interface for settings, save data management, and more. BIOS can be updated.
- Power LED indicator
- Donkey Kong Arcade/XPanded game cartridge
- 128kB version of the arcade game
- Persistent High Score table
- Sound uses the GI AY-3-8910 sound chip, and possibly the Oki sound chip too, in case it is included
- Donkey Kong Arcade/XPanded manual
- Module manual

What isn't 100% decided/defined yet
- Oki ADPCM sound chip (voice and sampled sound during gameplay) (90%+ plus change of being included)
- Module custom plastic case (matches the CV design)
Of course price will be adjusted to reflect the inclusion or not of those items.

[MarioMania]

Can the 7800 have a Expansion Module??

[7th lutz]

Can the 7800 have a Expansion Module??


Yes, the is two way supposedly, but I am no familiar with the 2nd way.

The first way is yes and no for the Atari 7800 having the capabilities to have an Expansion Module.

I said both because the original model of the Atari 7800 had an An expansion interface on the side of the 7800, but the 2 later models didn't.

Anyone that brought the Atari 7800 brand new in 1984 by test market and whatever the amount was left from the short lived test market or was produced by the time Jack Tramiel took over was sent to stores in 1986. The 2nd model came in some time in 1986 or 1987. The third model came out in 1989 or 1990.

The original models of the Atari 7800 had an An expansion interface on the side of the 7800 because the Atari 7800 was supposed to get a keyboard. People thought the Atari 7800 was about get a laserdisc player to play games like Dragon's Lair since the expansion interface made it possible.

Those plans got scrapped when Jack Tramiel bought Atari's home videogame and computer divisions. Jack wanted Atari for the computer division and didn't care for videogames.

The original Atari 7800 models were already produced by the time Jack Tramiel pulled the plug on the Atari 7800 in 1984. The original model was test marketed in 1984 with games before Jack pulled the plug on the system. There was remaining original Atari 7800 models that where in Atari's warehouse and they were sent out in to stores in 1986.

Jack wasn't interested in add-on systems or accessories when he finally decided to release the Atari 7800 in 1986 and the expansion interface the side of the 7800 was removed on later Atari 7800 models as a result.

[slapdash]

Here is the whole list of homebrew Atari 7800 games that are finished:

Dang, thanks for the list!



Beef Drop
Beef Drop VE


Hmm, I didn't know there were two of them... What's the difference? Are both available on cart?


Wasp! (last completed homebrew Atari 7800 game)

This is totally new to me too... Is it available on cart (yet)?

[7th lutz]

There was talk of plays of designing an Expansion Module for the Atari 7800 on the Atari 7800 message board back in June. It hasn't been brought up since.

All was known at the time was the Atari 7800 Expansion Module specs at the time sure was the following:

1. Built in High Score Cartridge capability
2. A 16K RAM upgrade
3. A Pokey Chip

I got that information from http://www.atariage.com/forums/topic/145566-7800-expansion-module/ .

I am not sure if would happen though.

[7th lutz]

Dang, thanks for the list!



Hmm, I didn't know there were two of them... What's the difference? Are both available on cart?



This is totally new to me too... Is it available on cart (yet)?

The difference is Beef Drop VE doesn't have the pokey sound chip that Beef Drop has. Both were released in Cart. The first version of Beef Drop didn't have anymore copies made.

1.) Beef Drop VE can be bought at http://www.gooddealgames.com/inventory/Atari%207800.html . Good Deal Games has an agreement to sell homebrew Atari 7800 games They don't have Wasp! sadly. The Atari age store has been down for a while and the game can't be bought there currently. I know that Albert is working on the Atariage store being back online. I don't know if Beef Drop VE will be sold at the Atariage Store.

2.) Wasp! was sold out on Cartridge. The Author had a limited run. I don't know if there will be more copies being made and be one of the games you can buy at the Atariage store.

[vintagegamecrazy]

Thanks for the list too. Don't also forget the reproduction Missing In Action game recently released too.

[slapdash]

Gah, figures I'd miss Beef Drop and Wasp! Oh well, just can't find the time to stay on top of all these releases any more... Thanks again for the clarifications!

[Steve W]

Wasp! was sold out on Cartridge. The Author had a limited run. I don't know if there will be more copies being made and be one of the games you can buy at the Atariage store.
Does Atari Age even have a store anymore? I can't find it. I think Albert has totally burnt out on dealing with a store. I know there's been problems in the past, after talking to a developer. I'd love for the Atari Age store to come back.

Quick Edit: It looks like all the Atari Age games are now being sold through Good Deal Games. Nice. Now I have a new centralized source of retro homebrews. :) The only drawback is they don't have screenshots.

[7th lutz]

There's also a great (but unfinished?) version of Frogger.

Frogger is unfinished. I didn't mention it because it appears like it has been abandoned and there hasn't been any new updates on since January 2007.

I all I know since than is the programmer has been busy with real life stuff according to some atariage members.

[Greg2600]

Albert brought the store back up earlier this year for awhile. I bought Pac-Man Collection for the 7800, and Castle Crisis for the 5200 from it. Most of his time has been spent on reorganizing and upgrading of the AA web forum. And yes, Good Deal Games, who I bought Super Pac-Man for 7800 from, have what seems like almost all of the games AA offered. In fact, other 7800 games include unreleased titles Sirius and Plutos.

[swlovinist]

Wasp is one heck of a game, I am glad I was on the short list of folks who got one. Hopefully this game will be available in the future.

[slapdash]

> In fact, other 7800 games include unreleased titles Sirius and Plutos.

However, they are not available at the moment. Just tried to order them a couple weeks ago.

[opcode]

Donkey Kong Arcade is for the Super Expansion Module only. Opcode is working on a Super Expansion Module right now. Donkey Kong Arcade is not a true Colecovision game based on the fact Super Expansion Module is an add-on. That is no different than the 32x and the Sega CD are add-on consoles for the Sega Genesis.

I don't think comparing the SEM to the 32X is fair. The 32X was basically a completely new console. It replaced the Genesis CPU, video chip and sound chip, while the SEM just adds more memory and extra sound chips. So the processing power and video capabilities are still the same. It is the same as adding more RAM to your existing PC. About sound, the CV was already superior to the 2 channels sound chip inside the 7800 anyway, and adding Pokeys to the cartridge never seemed to be a problem with 7800 users (as wasn't having high-score add-on cartridges...). So my question is: are all 7800 games that use Pokeys and high-score cartridges not true 7800 games?

[swlovinist]

The 7800 has also had some hacked games such as Star Wars(Xevious hack), Kessel Attack(Asteroids hack) as probably a ton other. Not true homebrews, but I saw that Asteroiods deluxe was mentioned, so I had to mention these. They were released on cart in limited numbers.

On the mention of unrelased games, there was also Pit Fighter...unfinished and TERRIBLE

[PacManPlus]

I don't think Kenfused has worked an Atari 7800 game since B*nq. Pac-ManPlus is dealing with stuff out of video games.

Homebrew 7800 games that are being worked on:
Apple Snaffle (boulder dash style game)
VPong (vertical Pong)
Some surprise game that Shawn Sr. is involved with.


Thanks, man - yes, I am going through some things at the moment, but I hope to get back in full force soon.

In the meantime (to add to the 'currently being worked on' list - although the name will be changed to 'FailSafe'):
http://www.digitpress.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2624&stc=1&d=1256655085

[orangest]

http://atariage.com/store/index.php?l=product_list&c=23

The AA store is back up; Wasp, Super Pac-Man, Pac-Man Jr. and Space Invaders are available.

[Tempest]

Thanks, man - yes, I am going through some things at the moment, but I hope to get back in full force soon.

In the meantime (to add to the 'currently being worked on' list - although the name will be changed to 'FailSafe'):
http://www.digitpress.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2624&stc=1&d=1256655085
Sweet! Countermeasure is one of my favorite 5200 games. It's very underrated.

Tempest

[Mitch]

Thanks, man - yes, I am going through some things at the moment, but I hope to get back in full force soon.

In the meantime (to add to the 'currently being worked on' list - although the name will be changed to 'FailSafe'):
http://www.digitpress.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2624&stc=1&d=1256655085

Nice.

I can't wait to try it out.

Mitch

[slapdash]

http://atariage.com/store/index.php?l=product_list&c=23

The AA store is back up; Wasp, Super Pac-Man, Pac-Man Jr. and Space Invaders are available.

Yay!

Now, if only I had money. November is a "thin" month. :-(

[GroovyBee]

I saw my name so I had to join up LOL. Find attached some screenshots from my latest Atari 7800 game.

You can follow the game's development over at AtariAge here :-

http://www.atariage.com/forums/topic/152901-7800-happy-halloween/

[Mayhem]

Welcome Groovy Bee... well, you should know me at least ;)

[Mitch]

Ah, that's a shame b/c the current version seems pretty close to be complete (aside from the lack of sound). Hopefully he finds time to finish it up, or maybe someone else can, b/c it'd be a shame for it not to be.


Actually it does have sound, it uses the Pokey chip though so you need to have it enabled to hear it.

Mitch

[7th lutz]

There is a new Atari 7800 game that is being attempted called Arkanoid. The thread about Arkanoid is at http://www.atariage.com/forums/topic/154267-something-else-im-working-on/ .

It sounds like there is a plan to have the Atari 7800 version of Arkanoid to work with Atari 2600 game paddles or Atari 2600 driving controllers.

[Steve W]

It sounds like there is a plan to have the Atari 7800 version of Arkanoid to work with Atari 2600 game paddles or Atari 2600 driving controllers.
It's about time that someone thought of porting Arkanoid, or at least one of the many knock-offs of it. With so many paddle controllers available for the Atari machines, it sounds like it would be a natural.

[martyg]

Lutz, just ran across this thread, just a few comments -



Anyone that brought the Atari 7800 brand new in 1984 by test market and whatever the amount was left from the short lived test market or was produced by the time Jack Tramiel took over was sent to stores in 1986.

Yes from January through July '86. The popular myth is that they dusted it off because of Nintendo, but in actuality they were pushing it again at the January '86 CES (after Nintendo had only had the poor showing New York test and had yet to have the better LA one). Michael Katz had publicly stated at the time it was because of strong 2600 sales over the Christmas season, though it was because of more going on behind the scenes of the previous year (touched on below).



Jack wanted Atari for the computer division and didn't care for videogames.

Another common myth, though I can understand why people think that because of the one desk incident with GCC. Jack planned on using the video games division from the get go to keep the company going (he could have just purchased the computer division) while finishing the ST. Part of the no money down purchase deal was that he take on the bulk of Atari Inc.'s debt so Warner could write it off the books (he succeeded in clearing it and bringing things back in the black by '87). So he needed the income from that. After the month freeze over July to evaluate everything purchased, he actually started the 2600jr project back up again that August of '84.


The original Atari 7800 models were already produced by the time Jack Tramiel pulled the plug on the Atari 7800 in 1984.

He did not pull the plug - all projects were jointly frozen by Jack and Warner for an evaluation period. The 7800 fell a short term victim to an outstanding bill. Warner had kept any open accounts (a standard practice), and the GCC account fell in to that grey area - they were still owed for the Maria development. So there was haggling back and forth over who owed GCC the money and therefore would own the console. It was finally decided that Jack would have to pay GCC the owed money to have full rights to the console, which was done that May of '85. After payment they asked for the molds and tooling to start things up again, and things hit full steam under pressure from Warner (still a major stock holder) that Fall of '85.


The original model was test marketed in 1984 with games before Jack pulled the plug on the system.

Again, see above. Also, during the test marketing the 7800 was actually not well received by the CES press at the June '84 CES. Accounts from the time rip it as more of the same. And with Atari Inc. also planning to launch their Amiga based console that Christmas, one has to wonder where the 7800 actually fit in.

[stonic]

For all intents and purposes, the 7800 was mothballed. Atari had pretty much stuck it to all of their U.S. distributors at that point (as a direct result of the market crash), and it would have been impossible for Atari to get them to devote shelf space for it. If Tramiel had plans for releasing it, he made no mention of them, either at his first press conference (November 1984), or all of 1985. In fact, about the only thing he talked about was Atari's plans for the computer industry. Pretty much the only reason the 7800 made it out to stores at all was because of the NES's successful test run in NYC late '85 that got everybody talking about video games again. If Atari actually sold a million (!) 2600 systems in 1985 like they claimed to, I want to see the paperwork to back it up.

[martyg]

Scott, appreciate your input.


For all intents and purposes, the 7800 was mothballed.

Yes, because of the payment issues previously mentioned. GCC was still owed a substantial amount for developing the MARIA chip and the first 10 games for the 7800. Jack argued with Warner that it should've been included with his purchase of Atari Consumer. It was settled that Spring of '85 with Jack paying for the MARIA development in order to get full rights, at which point he asked for the tooling and molds. Then a second disagreement started on the payments for the games GCC did and this all delayed the 7800 even further until that Fall when Warner put pressure on them to get it out the door.


Atari had pretty much stuck it to all of their U.S. distributors at that point (as a direct result of the market crash), and it would have been impossible for Atari to get them to devote shelf space for it.

Many of the major distributors (such as Sears) certainly left video games in their entirety by '85. However, there still was an active distribution network and the large back stock of 2600 and 5200 were both still being sold through '85 at retailers. This is the large back stock that Tramiel planned on "living" off of while 8-bit and ST development continued. Interestingly, they also had full plans for the 8-bit computer line from the get go according to internal emails from that July (one of which I showed at ECCC during by speech clearing up the whole Warner/Atari Inc./Atari Corp./Amiga/Commodore mess).


If Tramiel had plans for releasing it, he made no mention of them, either at his first press conference (November 1984), or all of 1985.


Certainly, why would he make mention of something still being hashed out between Warner and himself? (there were a bunch of legal "who owns what" still being hashed out well in to the early 90's between Atari Corp./Warner and Atari Games/Atari Corp.)


In fact, about the only thing he talked about was Atari's plans for the computer industry.

Thankfully, we have internal emails, documents and direct interviews to go by. The ramp up of the 2600 Jr. in July/August '84 is directly in their corporate email system for example. The time frames for the payments and such were corroborated independently by Brad Saville and Steve Golson (GCC).


Pretty much the only reason the 7800 made it out to stores at all was because of the NES's successful test run in NYC late '85 that got everybody talking about video games again.

Again, that's a common misconception. According to direct interviews with Arakawa and others from NOA of the time, it was not a "big success that got everyone talking about video games again". According to them they only sold about half the consoles sent over from Japan and and it was Yamauchi that pressed for the additional testing in LA that February. In fact, press reports from the January '86 CES also describe the test launch in NY as failed and the NES having little hope. Furthermore, by the June '86 CES in fact, all three consoles (NES, 7800 and the announced Master System) were being treated equally by the press. It was their combined presence that was being treated as the market being "revived". (On an aside, the 7800 was also back in stores already by that time, and I have local coverage in towns talking about high demand for it and selling out quickly.) It wasn't until more in to summer time and then the Fall national NES launch that the NES started getting more favorable press that put it more towards the head of the pack - though all three were reported with strong sales that Fall and Winter. The complete dominance began in '87.


If Atari actually sold a million (!) 2600 systems in 1985 like they claimed to, I want to see the paperwork to back it up.

Katz's claim (in January of '86) was actually towards predicting they would sell well over a million 2600 and 7800's combined over '86. Regarding what sales were actually done, we've actually got internal paperwork for much of the material in question, including US 7800 sales and others.

Most likely, the large 2600 sales in '85 were due to their setting at the $50 price point by that Fall and Christmas season.

[stonic]

Again, that's a common misconception. According to direct interviews with Arakawa and others from NOA of the time, it was not a "big success that got everyone talking about video games again"....

You can explain that to Len Herman, since he basically made the same comments that I did in his "Phoenix" book.



Thankfully, we have internal emails, documents and direct interviews to go by.


We've actually got internal paperwork for much of the material in question, including US 7800 sales and others.

Then kindly post them or offer links to them.

PS: Who's "we"?

[martyg]

You can explain that to Len Herman, since he basically made the same comments that I did in his "Phoenix" book.


Len's a friend of mine, and we've talked about this before. He was going by the material available at the time, as all of us were (since I used to think the same thing as well).



Then kindly post them or offer links to them.

PS: Who's "we"?

Curt and I. Though you already told him in the other thread you're not interested in any material he offered to share with you. However, the 7800 US sales figures were posted over at AA, you're welcome to take a look at them there.

[stonic]

Though you already told him in the other thread you're not interested in any material he offered to share with you.

That's right, and my stance won't change, no matter what carrot you try to dangle in front of me, or what forum account you use ;)

Anybody can throw around sales figures all day long. But since you still didn't offer any links or information, other than "it's on Atariage", then I have to wonder if it's part of the same information mentioned in this thread:
http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=132248

If it is, they weren't scans but rather Excel files that someone typed up, and not something anybody should reference as internal Atari documents.

[martyg]

That's right, and my stance won't change, no matter what carrot you try to dangle in front of me, or what forum account you use ;)

I'm not sure if you're accusing me of being Curt, but that's not the case. Just google "Marty Goldberg" in relation to ClassicGaming.Com, Atari Gaming Headquarters, the Midwest Gaming Classic, etc. Or ask Len, John H., Sean K., Matt (Tempest), Carey, etc.


If it is, they weren't scans but rather Excel files that someone typed up, and not something anybody should reference as internal Atari documents.

Actually no, the original material shared were copies of direct internal emails - not "excel files someone typed up". Lutz stated in the post you referred to, that he went and put everything in excel. I have copies of those emails myself.

And the stance of "I don't want the info, but post it here or it doesn't exist" comes off a bit pecuiliar. An interesting mix of "I want the info, but I also want to do a typical flame bait arguing tactic at the same time." But then if you want to go that route, feel free to wait for the two volume set we've been working on, which will contain all the requested marterial and then some. Links denote something put up on the web, which would mean we'd have to have put up the hours upon hours of direct interviews, internal paperwork, emails, paid for news archives and paid for court documents, etc. I've shared hard researched material with plenty of researchers and authors, but I just don't see the payoff here other than to share info and resources with someone that doesn't appreciate it and appears to want to turn it in to just another pissing contest.

I've said what I had to say, in good faith and good concsience. Many I mentioned above know that's where I come from, no hidden agenda. Just one "free thinker" to many more.

[stonic]

I'm not sure if you're accusing me of ...

So "wgungfu" isn't yours?

I guess I'll just have to wait for your volumes to come out, since you don't want to post anything right now. Thanks anyway.

[DracIsBack]

So "wgungfu" isn't yours?

I guess I'll just have to wait for your volumes to come out, since you don't want to post anything right now. Thanks anyway.

It's really unfortunate that you have to act this way. Impedes good discussions and sharing of information

[DracIsBack]

Assuming that these are the types of docs he's referring to? Curt posted a pile of these a while ago.