Is Microsoft getting REALLY cheap on us now? Or is it just me?

[Garry Silljo]

It's still better for the environment, you know. Recycling has a bigger negative impact on the environment than you'd think. Less plastic means both more cases per load and less plastic used to manufacture new ones.

For the last time, someone show HOW these new cases will damage your discs, or QUIT BITCHING.

Why is it with you that the burden of proof is always on someone else and not yourself? No one here will provide the evidence you demand, because to do so they will have to damage their disc, which is more valuable than winning the argument. How about you put up or shut up for once. Show us how completely safe they are. Show us how impossible it would be for a disc in this case to get scratched. Show us or "QUIT BITCHING."

[SplashChick]

Why is it with you that the burden of proof is always on someone else and not yourself? No one here will provide the evidence you demand, because to do so they will have to damage their disc, which is more valuable than winning the argument. How about you put up or shut up for once. Show us how completely safe they are. Show us how impossible it would be for a disc in this case to get scratched. Show us or "QUIT BITCHING."

Funny that you mention burden of proof, considering that you have no idea how it works, apparently. This thread and many of its posters are claiming that these new cases are somehow bad for their discs. That puts the burden of proof on them, sir. If any of it were true, people would have proof already because there are millions of these cases out there. SOMEONE would have had a problem. SOMEONE would be able to point out where the case could potentially scratch the disc. The fact that nobody is doing that shows that this is all bogus and people are whining about nothing.

[tubeway]

Why is it with you that the burden of proof is always on someone else and not yourself? No one here will provide the evidence you demand, because to do so they will have to damage their disc, which is more valuable than winning the argument. How about you put up or shut up for once. Show us how completely safe they are. Show us how impossible it would be for a disc in this case to get scratched. Show us or "QUIT BITCHING."

Well... someone COULD just replace the insert with a sheet of paper, and use some random AOL CD in the place of an Xbox 360 disc and test this potential problem out for free....

I don't have any current gen systems, so I can't check this out myself.

[SplashChick]

Well... someone COULD just replace the insert with a sheet of paper, and use some random AOL CD in the place of an Xbox 360 disc and test this potential problem out for free....

I don't have any current gen systems, so I can't check this out myself.

I should HOPE nobody would be dumb enough to use the actual disc.

[FxMercenary]

why dont you all take a step back for a moment and think really hard about what you are arguing about, and what it is going to accomplish.

[Sonicwolf]

Funny that you mention burden of proof, considering that you have no idea how it works, apparently. This thread and many of its posters are claiming that these new cases are somehow bad for their discs. That puts the burden of proof on them, sir. If any of it were true, people would have proof already because there are millions of these cases out there. SOMEONE would have had a problem. SOMEONE would be able to point out where the case could potentially scratch the disc. The fact that nobody is doing that shows that this is all bogus and people are whining about nothing.

Im with silljo on this one. If you would really want everyone to stop complaining and pointed to the idea of proving the new case designs lack the potential to damage a disc, why dont YOU test the theory?

I am not arguing about this. I am asking a question.

[SplashChick]

Im with silljo on this one. If you would really want everyone to stop complaining and pointed to the idea of proving the new case designs lack the potential to damage a disc, why dont YOU test the theory?

I am not arguing about this. I am asking a question.

Again, burden of proof. I do not need to prove that invisible gnomes aren't stealing my socks from the dryer just like I don't need to prove that these cases aren't magically damaging discs just because they use less plastic. The fact that NONE of you can come up with ANYTHING against these cases(not even ONE bad experience) is more than enough to dismiss this as ignorant bitching over nothing.

[Garry Silljo]

Again, burden of proof. I do not need to prove that invisible gnomes aren't stealing my socks from the dryer just like I don't need to prove that these cases aren't magically damaging discs just because they use less plastic. The fact that NONE of you can come up with ANYTHING against these cases(not even ONE bad experience) is more than enough to dismiss this as ignorant bitching over nothing.

Of course you don't need to prove it. You never need to prove anything. It's always someone else's responsability, never yours. It's pretty damn convenient being you.

I don't give a damn about the cases really. Though the potential for harm obviously rises the less protective material you use, that's all it is at this point ... potential. I could drop a regular case and this new style case on a bed of nails 100 times each and inspect to see which disc and insert had more damage ... but common sense already gives us the answer. I challenge you though, if you think the protection would be equal, prove it. You don't have to though. We here all know that proof is yours to demand, not provide, so speakth the SplashChick.

[pseudonym]

I think that if companies really wanted to be eco-friendly they would switch to a slimcase or BR-style cases at this point and cut down on the slipcases and other errata that they include with DVDs and games. A couple of DVDs I've bought had a huge catalog of their movies and other paperwork in it that made the DVD weight roughly twice as much as normal.

As for bad experiences, I'm pretty big on buying DVDs and games online and I've had several damaged eco-DVDs cases that were broken at the spokes and the center hub which resulted in scratched discs, not to mention ripped artwork/sleeves. From my experience, the new design leaves the disc more prone to damage or being scratched. I'm not OCD regarding condition if it's minor, but a lot of little scratches and ripped artwork pisses me off when it's been bought new or nm/mint condition.

[SplashChick]

Of course you don't need to prove it. You never need to prove anything. It's always someone else's responsability, never yours. It's pretty damn convenient being you.

I don't give a damn about the cases really. Though the potential for harm obviously rises the less protective material you use, that's all it is at this point ... potential. I could drop a regular case and this new style case on a bed of nails 100 times each and inspect to see which disc and insert had more damage ... but common sense already gives us the answer. I challenge you though, if you think the protection would be equal, prove it. You don't have to though. We here all know that proof is yours to demand, not provide, so speakth the SplashChick.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burden_of_proof

Please educate yourself before you give me a headache.

[kupomogli]

SplashChick. You're saying that it wouldn't harm the disc. Garry(and everyone else) is saying it would. Both of you have a different opinion so it's on either of you to show proof of it.


The burden of proof (Latin: onus probandi) is the obligation to shift the assumed conclusion away from an oppositional opinion to one's own position.

According to pseudonym's last post, it would seem that this does infact damage discs and the inserts. I'd assume it would anyways.

[pseudonym]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burden_of_proof

Please educate yourself before you give me a headache.

Why is this such a big deal for you? Do you feel that strongly about this, or do you have nothing better to do than argue endlessly on the INTERNET? A lot of the posts in this thread are yours and usually arguing with someone.

[SplashChick]

I think that if companies really wanted to be eco-friendly they would switch to a slimcase or BR-style cases at this point and cut down on the slipcases and other errata that they include with DVDs and games. A couple of DVDs I've bought had a huge catalog of their movies and other paperwork in it that made the DVD weight roughly twice as much as normal.

As for bad experiences, I'm pretty big on buying DVDs and games online and I've had several damaged eco-DVDs cases that were broken at the spokes and the center hub which resulted in scratched discs, not to mention ripped artwork/sleeves. From my experience, the new design leaves the disc more prone to damage or being scratched. I'm not OCD regarding condition if it's minor, but a lot of little scratches and ripped artwork pisses me off when it's been bought new or nm/mint condition.

Actually I see a lot of games that do that. Many newer games have manuals that are less than 10 pages it seems. About the cases though, they like to keep some kind of standard. Lots of people have DVD racks and the like and the only way to ensure that your products will fit in them is to abide by the standard. I think the slow but sure movement towards blu-ray is a start for that, but until then these eco-dvd cases are a more immediate alternative.

I'm really surprised by your experiences, though. It seems like it would take a decent amount of force to break one of those spokes, I'd really question their shipping methods if that happens. It could also be a manufacturing defect as well, but since you bought it online anything could be the case. I've personally seen many regular dvd cases broken or even crushed somewhere between the manufacturer and I, so it would be hard to determine if the design is at fault or not.

[Garry Silljo]

so it would be hard to determine if the design is at fault or not.

Prove it.

[scooterb23]

Burden of proof...in a thread about the construction of DVD cases?

Dear Lord, the hyperbole is stifling.

There used to be material behind the disc, there isn't anymore. Therefore, there is less protection for the disc.

Is it really that hard to understand?

Oh where will this glorious trainwreck lead us now???

I CAN'T WAIT!!!

[SplashChick]

SplashChick. You're saying that it wouldn't harm the disc. Garry(and everyone else) is saying it would. Both of you have a different opinion so it's on either of you to show proof of it.



According to pseudonym's last post, it would seem that this does infact damage discs and the inserts. I'd assume it would anyways.

Good job ripping that out of context and ignoring this statement from a mere 2 lines away:


the necessity of proof always lies with the person who lays charges.

I never made the claim that the new cases would not damage discs. I only questioned the claims of others that they would.

[Gameguy]

I would be more concerned that the case itself would break after taking the disc out a few hundred times(in 20 years or so). The part that holds the disc has very little support now, taking out the disc would pull on the supports somewhat.

If the cases break more easily, more will be trashed and it would be worse for the environment.

[SplashChick]

Why is this such a big deal for you? Do you feel that strongly about this, or do you have nothing better to do than argue endlessly on the INTERNET? A lot of the posts in this thread are yours and usually arguing with someone.

I take a bit of an issue with people who overreact to an effort to reduce the consumption of resources as something that is inherently worse. Everyone is freaking out because there isn't completely solid plastic behind the disc now, but what are you doing to your games that would cause that to come into play? Do you have a habit of stabbing your games with sharp objects or something? In a realistic situation, how is this worse than before? That's what I want to know.

[SplashChick]

Prove it.

Manufacturing, packaging, shipping, handling, and the case design itself. These are all things that the product has to go through that could potentially damage the case or its contents. Without being there, it would be impossible to determine which of these was the actual cause of a remote case.

[SplashChick]

I would be more concerned that the case itself would break after taking the disc out a few hundred times(in 20 years or so). The part that holds the disc has very little support now, taking out the disc would pull on the supports somewhat.

If the cases break more easily, more will be trashed and it would be worse for the environment.

I thought about this too, but it looks like the center is the same as typical 360 cases, where you have to push the center to release the disc. Unless you're mishandling the case it should be as good as any other case.

[Garry Silljo]

Without being there, it would be impossible to determine which of these was the actual cause of a remote case. Impossible? Prove it.

[SplashChick]

Impossible? Prove it.

Jesus you're dense.

[Garry Silljo]

I take a bit of an issue with people who overreact to an effort to reduce the consumption of resources as something that is inherently worse. Everyone is freaking out because there isn't completely solid plastic behind the disc now, but what are you doing to your games that would cause that to come into play? Do you have a habit of stabbing your games with sharp objects or something? In a realistic situation, how is this worse than before? That's what I want to know.

A normal adult would not be doing anything to the disc or case at much risk, however, you are assuming the disc is being handled by a normal adult. Many of us have children. You can teach a child to handle something correctly, but mistakes will definately be made along the way. For example, my 4 year who has gotten very good at handling her discs, made the mistake of leaving a disc in the case low enough for my 1 year old to reach it. He pulled it down and the tried to learn to walk on it. The case got a crack and thankfully the disk was fine. Maybe it would have been fine in an eco-case as well, but it I were a betting man, more protection means better odds.

[Garry Silljo]

Jesus you're dense.

I'm dense. You've made the charge ... prove it. I expect you will be showing up at my residence to do the proper scientific studies and test? How dense are we going for? What is the average density of a human? Were you actually talking about me, or were you saying that Jesus was dense? If you were prove that. Also, dense compared to what? A rock, diamond, tap water? Provide proof for all.

[SplashChick]

A normal adult would not be doing anything to the disc or case at much risk, however, you are assuming the disc is being handled by a normal adult. Many of us have children. You can teach a child to handle something correctly, but mistakes will definately be made along the way. For example, my 4 year who has gotten very good at handling her discs, made the mistake of leaving a disc in the case low enough for my 1 year old to reach it. He pulled it down and the tried to learn to walk on it. The case got a crack and thankfully the disk was fine. Maybe it would have been fine in an eco-case as well, but it I were a betting man, more protection means better odds.

You can't blame a case design for your own negligence.

[pseudonym]

I take a bit of an issue with people who overreact to an effort to reduce the consumption of resources as something that is inherently worse. Everyone is freaking out because there isn't completely solid plastic behind the disc now, but what are you doing to your games that would cause that to come into play? Do you have a habit of stabbing your games with sharp objects or something? In a realistic situation, how is this worse than before? That's what I want to know.

Maybe not adults, but kids and teens aren't usually known for being careful with things that they own. There are thousands of realistic situations or things that could lead to the insert or the case itself being punctured. The lack of material in the center of the case where the disc is seated leaves the potential for damage more than if the material was there like scooterb23 said. It's pretty flimsy and having to press the center hub to release the disc would probably put pressure on the spokes and could break with repeated use.

[SplashChick]

I'm dense. You've made the charge ... prove it. I expect you will be showing up at my residence to do the proper scientific studies and test? How dense are we going for? What is the average density of a human? Were you actually talking about me, or were you saying that Jesus was dense? If you were prove that. Also, dense compared to what? A rock, diamond, tap water? Provide proof for all.

Yes, you're just so funny. You should write a book or something.

[SplashChick]

Maybe not adults, but kids and teens aren't usually known for being careful with things that they own. There are thousands of realistic situations or things that could lead to the insert or the case itself being punctured. The lack of material in the center of the case where the disc is seated leaves the potential for damage more than if the material was there like scooterb23 said. It's pretty flimsy and having to press the center hub to release the disc would probably put pressure on the spokes and could break with repeated use.

But how is that potential so much of an issue that it isn't worth the ecological benefits? If there were widespread problems I could understand, but you're talking about extreme chance happenings here, things where that little extra actually WOULD make a difference(I'd love to see anyone come up with even 50 situations, really). I say it's more than worth it. Take care of your things and you'll never see a problem, lest you trip with scissors and accidentally skewer your game.

[Gameguy]

You can't blame a case design for your own negligence.
Sure you can, why else would cars have seatbelts and airbags? It's not like it's designed to crash under normal conditions, just make sure everyone drives well and you won't need them anymore.

That's an extreme example, but still relevant. There's plenty of products designed to withstand more abuse than it would receive under normal conditions. It's a thing called quality, to make sure it's extremely durable so it will last a long time.

[SplashChick]

Sure you can, why else would cars have seatbelts and airbags? It's not like it's designed to crash under normal conditions, just make sure everyone drives well and you won't need them anymore.

That's an extreme example, but still relevant. There's plenty of products designed to withstand more abuse than it would receive under normal conditions. It's a thing called quality, to make sure it's extremely durable so it will last a long time.

Uh, no, that isn't relevant. Car crashes are not always caused by your own negligence. You're also comparing an extremely significant difference to a difference that is extremely minor.

And really, these cases aren't going to last a really long time with one design over the other. The plastic will age and become brittle eventually.

[Garry Silljo]

You can't blame a case design for your own negligence.

I never blamed either case at all in that example (If you think I did prove it). I merely presented a situation in which more protection may be a blessing. You are simply incapable of processing any information that is not useful to you. I've talked at brick walls like you before. Even if I found 1,000,000 situations it wouldn't matter. You've made up your mind. Although since you don't actually want proof or evidence against your stance, you probably shouldn't have asked for any.

[SplashChick]

I never blamed either case at all in that example (If you think I did prove it). I merely presented a situation in which more protection may be a blessing. You are simply incapable of processing any information that is not useful to you. I've talked at brick walls like you before. Even if I found 1,000,000 situations it wouldn't matter. You've made up your mind. Although since you don't actually want proof or evidence against your stance, you probably shouldn't have asked for any.

On the contrary, I'd love to see evidence that these cases are bad for games, I'd be the first to email the manufacturer and ask them what the fuck they're thinking. Until then, however, I think the ecological benefits are worth the change, and some of you need to get over yourselves and quit being so damn selfish.

It is rather funny that you choose to act this way to me despite that I'm not the only one who asked for proof that these cases do more harm than good.

[Aussie2B]

Uh, SplashChick, you do realize this is a forum for collectors, right? Filled with people who often buy games used, sometimes decades after the original release? This isn't GameFAQs with a bunch of 14-year-olds that only shop at GameStop buying games as soon as they come out. I'm confident that the people around here can take care of these games once they end up in their hands, but what about before that? What about 10, 20 years from now? It's simple logic that these games, whether it be their cases, inserts, or discs, are going to take more abuse from the general populace due to the lesser protection. History has already proved this. Look at how much more likely it is to find a Genesis game complete in its sturdy plastic case than a SNES game in its cardboard. Or if you do find complete copies of each, which will likely have more wear and tear?

Whether this is a good move for the environment or the publishers or what have you, it's still a completely valid concern to the collector community. It's worth discussing and it's worth complaint because in the end it's not good for collectors. It's just up to the individual to decide if he or she believes the good outweighs the bad.

[Garry Silljo]

On the contrary, I'd love to see evidence that these cases are bad for games, I'd be the first to email the manufacturer and ask them what the fuck they're thinking.

Someone already gave testimony to the fragility these cases display. So start emailing already. Or, be you, and ignore their experience for daring to not fall in line with the what you have decided needs to be true.

[SplashChick]

Uh, SplashChick, you do realize this is a forum for collectors, right? Filled with people who often buy games used, sometimes decades after the original release? This isn't GameFAQs with a bunch of 14-year-olds that only shop at GameStop buying games as soon as they come out. I'm confident that the people around here can take care of these games once they end up in their hands, but what about before that? What about 10, 20 years from now? It's simple logic that these games, whether it be their cases, inserts, or discs, are going to take more abuse from the general populace due to the lesser protection. History has already proved this. Look at how much more likely it is to find a Genesis game complete in its sturdy plastic case than a SNES game in its cardboard. Or if you do find complete copies of each, which will likely have more wear and tear?

Whether this is a good move for the environment or the publishers or what have you, it's still a completely valid concern to the collector community. It's worth discussing and it's worth complaint because in the end it's not good for collectors. It's just up to the individual to decide if he or she believes the good outweighs the bad.

Thank you for actually saying this instead of just bitching about how I didn't instantly agree with you. I still disagree and think that the benefits are worth it, but I can accept this as a valid complaint. It's good to know some people can be mature.

[SplashChick]

Someone already gave testimony to the fragility these cases display. So start emailing already. Or, be you, and ignore their experience for daring to not fall in line with the what you have decided needs to be true.

One person's bad experience, which may or may not actually even be caused by the design, is a far piece away from a widespread issue.

[Garry Silljo]

One person's bad experience, which may or may not actually even be caused by the design, is a far piece away from a widespread issue.

Alright write us a five page paper on what you actually need then. How many peoples accounts are required? What actual tests need to be performed so that the case can be faulted? I'm sure you've got a billion requirements/loop holes/ and hoops to jump through so lay the whole thing out so no one wastes their time on proof you won't accept .... which is any. Obviously you make your proof requirements beyond reasonable means on purpose so that you never have to accept anything you don't wish. As I mentioned before, it's pretty damn convenient to be you. I've got better things to do though, like sleep, so good night.

You could take some advice from these cases you love though. When you are building the wall around your brain to keep out anything you don't want in there, put a bunch of holes in that wall .... of course you won't do that because you've known all along what we have been saying.... access holes don't protect anything, and increase potential harm.

[SplashChick]

Alright write us a five page paper on what you actually need then. How many peoples accounts are required? What actual tests need to be performed so that the case can be faulted? I'm sure you've got a billion requirements/loop holes/ and hoops to jump through so lay the whole thing out so no one wastes their time on proof you won't accept .... which is any. Obviously you make your proof requirements beyond reasonable means on purpose so that you never have to accept anything you don't wish. As I mentioned before, it's pretty damn convenient to be you. I've got better things to do though, like sleep, so good night.

You could take some advice from these cases you love though. When you are building the wall around your brain to keep out anything you don't want in there, put a bunch of holes in that wall .... of course you won't do that because you've known all along what we have been saying.... access holes don't protect anything, and increase potential harm.

Your sheer ignorance really does amuse me. Okay, I'll let you go back to your dream world where everyone believes the first thing out of each other's mouths without question. I just hope you don't read tabloids, for your sake.

[Gameguy]

Okay, I'll let you go back to your dream world where everyone believes the first thing out of each other's mouths without question.
You mean like environmental benefits? I still don't understand how using less plastic for these cases is better for the environment. The majority of them aren't going to be thrown out or recycled. Plastic isn't mined or grown anywhere, it's a man-made material. I'm pretty sure modern plastic isn't petroleum based either, so no need to worry about depleting resources. Please explain how Microsoft saving money is better for the environment. The cases that get trashed the most this generation are DS or PSP cases, I rarely ever see disc only games for sale anywhere(besides bootlegs). Think green, bio-degradable, environmentally friendly, insert-marketing-term-here, etc. If they were serious about reducing plastic then they should just change the cases to standard CD cases, just like Sony did for the PS1 after they had longboxes. The reason they don't is because it would affect their sales, their products won't stand out from the competition as much. It's all about profit, not the environment.

Just slap "good for the environment" on anything and it'll sell better. I honestly have old Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle paper lunch bags that say to protect the environment. It's written on disposable paper lunch bags. How are they more environmentally friendly compared to a reusable lunch box? It's like the definition of ironic.

[SplashChick]

You mean like environmental benefits? I still don't understand how using less plastic for these cases is better for the environment. The majority of them aren't going to be thrown out or recycled. Plastic isn't mined or grown anywhere, it's a man-made material. I'm pretty sure modern plastic isn't petroleum based either, so no need to worry about depleting resources. Please explain how Microsoft saving money is better for the environment. The cases that get trashed the most this generation are DS or PSP cases, I rarely ever see disc only games for sale anywhere(besides bootlegs). Think green, bio-degradable, environmentally friendly, insert-marketing-term-here, etc. If they were serious about reducing plastic then they should just change the cases to standard CD cases, just like Sony did for the PS1 after they had longboxes. The reason they don't is because it would affect their sales, their products won't stand out from the competition as much. It's all about profit, not the environment.

Just slap "good for the environment" on anything and it'll sell better. I honestly have old Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle paper lunch bags that say to protect the environment. It's written on disposable paper lunch bags. How are they more environmentally friendly compared to a reusable lunch box? It's like the definition of ironic.

Less plastic means less resources used to make them and less waste when thrown out, and that means a smaller carbon footprint overall. Each case may not be saving much plastic on its own, but when you consider how many cases are being made and distributed around the world, the amount of plastic saved is significant.

Also, you can stop blaming Microsoft, I'm pretty sure they don't manufacture the cases. I don't see why saving money would be a bad thing anyway, money saved means more budget to be allocated to other things.

[Leo_A]

The cases that get trashed the most this generation are DS or PSP cases, I rarely ever see disc only games for sale anywhere(besides bootlegs).

While I'm in agreement that this is a poor decision that negatively affects the consumer without significant environmental benefits, I have to disagree with this statement.

Just walk into any GameStop in this country and look at the piles of games with generic inserts. People don't remove the inserts before trading in games, they're being traded in as disc only and recieving new cases and generic inserts from GameStop. I'd say they outnumber PS2 games with their original cases and inserts, and represent a high percentage of 360 and PS3 releases at GameStop as well. (I don't pay much attention to used Wii games for some reason, but I'm sure it's similar).

[unwinddesign]

I still don't understand how using less plastic for these cases is better for the environment.

I don't have an opinion on the damage potential of these cases (although I noticed it when I opened my new copy of Modern Warfare 2), but are you serious with this statement? Last I checked, making plastic used up resources and caused pollution. More weight causes lower gas mileage in the delivery truck.

Less plastic used per case = less total plastic manufactured = less resources used, less pollution created and lighter loads on the truck/transport = higher gas mileage and lower emissions.

It doesn't make a difference for one case, or even for one shipment, but COD Modern Warfare 2 has already sold 4 million + copies. If this saves .5 ounces of plastic, then that's 2 million ounces of plastic = 125,000 pounds of plastic saved. That's for one game. Extrapolate that across all new DVDs, Blu-Rays, PS3 & Wii games and it becomes a big deal.

Does it help the company's bottom line? Absolutely. But if it's helpful for the company's profits and helps the environment, it's a win-win as far as I'm concerned. There are better environmental solutions, but at least it's something. And it doesn't really affect the game, provided you don't jam it in there. I've unloaded MW 2 over a dozen times from the case and have had no worries or difficulties at all.

Although it seems some folks on Amazon have had issues with broken cases:

http://www.amazon.com/elses-game-case-came-broken/forum/Fx2YTN1WVMZX2/Tx1XD0Z0G2JSO2M/1/ref=cm_cd_zgbs_tft_tp?_encoding=UTF8&asin=B002I0HDLE

[buzz_n64]

Yeah, these manufacturers are doing a good thing. They could go a step further and make the cases compact disc size again. Blu-ray and HD-dvd have the right idea. Smaller means less plastic, more space free in your room, and more product that will be put on shelves in stores. win, win.

[SplashChick]

I don't have an opinion on the damage potential of these cases (although I noticed it when I opened my new copy of Modern Warfare 2), but are you serious with this statement? Last I checked, making plastic used up resources and caused pollution. More weight causes lower gas mileage in the delivery truck.

Less plastic used per case = less total plastic manufactured = less resources used, less pollution created and lighter loads on the truck/transport = higher gas mileage and lower emissions.

It doesn't make a difference for one case, or even for one shipment, but COD Modern Warfare 2 has already sold 4 million + copies. If this saves .5 ounces of plastic, then that's 2 million ounces of plastic = 125,000 pounds of plastic saved. That's for one game. Extrapolate that across all new DVDs, Blu-Rays, PS3 & Wii games and it becomes a big deal.

Does it help the company's bottom line? Absolutely. But if it's helpful for the company's profits and helps the environment, it's a win-win as far as I'm concerned. There are better environmental solutions, but at least it's something. And it doesn't really affect the game, provided you don't jam it in there. I've unloaded MW 2 over a dozen times from the case and have had no worries or difficulties at all.

Although it seems some folks on Amazon have had issues with broken cases:

http://www.amazon.com/elses-game-case-came-broken/forum/Fx2YTN1WVMZX2/Tx1XD0Z0G2JSO2M/1/ref=cm_cd_zgbs_tft_tp?_encoding=UTF8&asin=B002I0HDLE

That's pretty bad. I wonder if their shipping methods are causing cases to get crushed, it sounds like everyone's was broken the same way, like too much weight was put on it or it was packed too tight. Like I said before, I've seen regular cases crushed, and it was always because they were packed too damn tight in the box. A little extra pressure and the cases up against the side give. The discs were always fine, though, just like those people were saying. It sounds like it could be the same problem.

[Flack]

Why is this such a big deal for you? Do you feel that strongly about this, or do you have nothing better to do than argue endlessly on the INTERNET? A lot of the posts in this thread are yours and usually arguing with someone.

Right now I've got 5:1 odds that she doesn't make it to 200 posts and 2:1 odds that she doesn't make it past 300. We're all about conversation and discussion here, not berating and treating every single member of the forum like an idiot. I haven't gone back far enough to see where this chip on her shoulder began, but I'm fairly confident I can predict how it's going to end. We love conversation here at DP. We love debating and bantering too. We're also kind of keen on simple manners.

[MachineGex]

I think she has danced all over that line(simple manners). My guess is post 169. Put me down for a "Hamilton" !

[Garry Silljo]

That's pretty bad. I wonder if their shipping methods are causing cases to get crushed, it sounds like everyone's was broken the same way, like too much weight was put on it or it was packed too tight.

It's like I said before. It could be 1 or a billion people who have a bad experience, you'll never blame the case, because you've decided the case is good and anything to the contrary be damned. If you think it could be the shipping methods I'd do the prove it bit again, but you've already demonstrated that although you have no problem demanding proof from others, as soon as it is asked of you, you get snippy and claim it's impossible. So convenient being you.

[Garry Silljo]

Right now I've got 5:1 odds that she doesn't make it to 200 posts and 2:1 odds that she doesn't make it past 300.

I can't predict how far she'll get because back in the Anthony1 days I was sure I'd never break 1,000. Thanks for keeping me around so long guys!

[Jimmy Yakapucci]

Yeah, these manufacturers are doing a good thing. They could go a step further and make the cases compact disc size again. Blu-ray and HD-dvd have the right idea. Smaller means less plastic, more space free in your room, and more product that will be put on shelves in stores. win, win.

I remember way back when, when they first changed the CD packaging from the long cardboard box with jewel case inside to just the jewel case. One argument for using the long box was the 2 of them sitting side by side took up the same amount of room as an LP record. Since many record stores were in the process of dumping their vinyl stock, this made sense for them as there was less retrofit expense to display and sell the new stuff.

Also, I remember the argument a while back about PC software not going to jewel case only. There were many comments made about the lack of space on a jewel case to advertise and promote your product.

As for the new cases, it doesn't matter to me since the overall size is the same. What bothers be is the different sizes of jewel cases used for video games. (Single disc, dual disc, oversized single disc, etc.) Makes it a pain to put them in my rack that is only designed for single disc cases.

JY

[DeputyMoniker]

The product keeps getting cheaper, but we're still paying the same prices.

Bingo.
I hate being a stick in the mud but I can't imagine that it would require a major investment for MS, or Sony or anybody else up there, to come up with a nice package that not only saves material, but is as good as the package they're replacing. I know this new package was easy as hell to come up with, but it sacrifices quality when it exposes the insert. It isn't the end of the world, but it does help make the point that being eco friendly isn't supposed to mean "lower quality." I'm sure if they *cared*, they could have come up with something that has thick plastic where it needs it & thin plastic where it doesn't.

[Daria]

Right now I've got 5:1 odds that she doesn't make it to 200 posts and 2:1 odds that she doesn't make it past 300. We're all about conversation and discussion here, not berating and treating every single member of the forum like an idiot. I haven't gone back far enough to see where this chip on her shoulder began, but I'm fairly confident I can predict how it's going to end. We love conversation here at DP. We love debating and bantering too. We're also kind of keen on simple manners.

Hmm... now my post in the Megaman thread doesn't seem so crazy does it?

[Garry Silljo]

Hmm... now my post in the Megaman thread doesn't seem so crazy does it?

In all honesty I was reading this thread but was never going to post in it. However I read the Megaman thread and found inspiration. I was wondering how SplashChick thought her medicine tasted. The answer was that I should write a book?

[SplashChick]

Right now I've got 5:1 odds that she doesn't make it to 200 posts and 2:1 odds that she doesn't make it past 300. We're all about conversation and discussion here, not berating and treating every single member of the forum like an idiot. I haven't gone back far enough to see where this chip on her shoulder began, but I'm fairly confident I can predict how it's going to end. We love conversation here at DP. We love debating and bantering too. We're also kind of keen on simple manners.

Lol I don't scare that easy.


It's like I said before. It could be 1 or a billion people who have a bad experience, you'll never blame the case, because you've decided the case is good and anything to the contrary be damned. If you think it could be the shipping methods I'd do the prove it bit again, but you've already demonstrated that although you have no problem demanding proof from others, as soon as it is asked of you, you get snippy and claim it's impossible. So convenient being you.

Yes, it is convenient having seen the exact same thing happen to normal cases because of poor packing jobs. It's very convenient to not be constantly jumping to conclusions, I must say.


Hmm... now my post in the Megaman thread doesn't seem so crazy does it?

Okay, seriously, this obsession of yours is getting a little creepy.

[GrandAmChandler]

Lol I don't scare that easy.


You should.

One more argument or the berating of any member here, and you are gone.

Consider this your first and final warning.

-GAC-

[DeputyMoniker]

Lol I don't scare that easy.

Xizer?

[scooterb23]

Xizer?

Nah, Xizer was a memorable troll. Like RugalSizzler, or theaveng.

Noone will remember this one for more than a couple hours after it is gone...the quality of trolling has gone downhill, much like the quality of game cases these days.

[Carey85]

I wholeheartedly agree, Scooter. Splashchick is the K-Mart of trolls.

[RP2A03]

I finally got one of those eco-DVD cases and after some examination I've come to the conclusion that the main concern for damage (assuming the item is properly packed for shipping and arrives to you in mint condition) is the potential for the insert to eventually get an indentation pattern where the missing plastic is, much like the way a record jacket gets a record shaped bulge and wear area when stored horizontally. As long as you store the cases vertically, which they should be anyway, there should not be any problems. Of course this assumes all the other rules of proper storage are followed, which in my experience is not the case with the general population. I guess this means one more blemish to look forward to in the future as we fill in our collections.

[scooterb23]

I guess this means one more blemish to look forward to in the future as we fill in our collections.

You mean people are actually going to be collecting 360 / PS3 games 20-30 years into the future?

I can't imagine subjecting Jumper to future generations...

[SplashChick]

You should.

One more argument or the berating of any member here, and you are gone.

Consider this your first and final warning.

-GAC-

So debating topics with the intent of making progress isn't okay, but following members around the board mocking them and posting flamebait in unrelated topics is.

Cool.

[GarrettCRW]

Buh-bye.

So long!

*starts singing* Farewell to thee....

[SplashChick]

Buh-bye.

So long!

*starts singing* Farewell to thee....

See? All of my recent posts have been met with hostility regardless of their content, so why is all of the blame shifted onto me? Surely there are rules against such blatant flamebaiting.

[skaar]

I blame Tune for this.

[GarrettCRW]

I blame Tune for this.

Quite the troublemaker, that one.

[Gameguy]

Less plastic means less resources used to make them and less waste when thrown out, and that means a smaller carbon footprint overall. Each case may not be saving much plastic on its own, but when you consider how many cases are being made and distributed around the world, the amount of plastic saved is significant.

Also, you can stop blaming Microsoft, I'm pretty sure they don't manufacture the cases. I don't see why saving money would be a bad thing anyway, money saved means more budget to be allocated to other things.
Well, the cases are manufactured to specifications by the companies that order them, so it is because of Microsoft/Nintendo/any other company that orders custom cases. These aren't generic cases, they're specifically made for these game companies.

The only resource that's being saved is plastic. They're still manufactured the same way, only with a different mold. As I already mentioned, very few of these cases are being thrown out. It's not like with bottled water with the bottles being redesigned, I support that as most of the bottles are being discarded. The cases are meant to be kept.


While I'm in agreement that this is a poor decision that negatively affects the consumer without significant environmental benefits, I have to disagree with this statement.

Just walk into any GameStop in this country and look at the piles of games with generic inserts. People don't remove the inserts before trading in games, they're being traded in as disc only and recieving new cases and generic inserts from GameStop. I'd say they outnumber PS2 games with their original cases and inserts, and represent a high percentage of 360 and PS3 releases at GameStop as well. (I don't pay much attention to used Wii games for some reason, but I'm sure it's similar).
Though I do see some disc only games whenever I go to a Gamestop/EB Games, they're really quite minimal. I see maybe 5-10 loose Wii/Xbox360/PS3 games per store compared to the 20-30 loose DS or 10-20 loose PSP games. If I compared that amount to the number of used games in each store for each system, there's really very few loose games out there. I do travel to several different stores so I'm not just going by one store, but maybe it does depend on the region.


That's pretty bad. I wonder if their shipping methods are causing cases to get crushed, it sounds like everyone's was broken the same way, like too much weight was put on it or it was packed too tight. Like I said before, I've seen regular cases crushed, and it was always because they were packed too damn tight in the box. A little extra pressure and the cases up against the side give. The discs were always fine, though, just like those people were saying. It sounds like it could be the same problem.
The cases are being shipped the same way as the previous design, they're the same shape and size so they're being fit into packing boxes the same way. They should be designed to withstand the method of shipping.

Let's think what you're suggesting instead. You're suggesting that they're packed too tightly into the boxes. The solution would be to pack them into bigger boxes, but this would use more material for shipping. So while there would be less material used for something that most people would keep, there would be more material used for something that most people would throw away. How would that make sense from an environmental perspective? It doesn't benefit the environment to use more shipping material, they should be designed with shipping in mind so packing material can be reduced.

Even if stores/companies offered to replace broken cases, the broken cases would have to be shipped back while new ones will have to be shipped out. This would use more gas so any savings in emissions from the new cases weighing less would be completely undone.



The real way to improve the environment would be to change people's buying habits. I seriously doubt this will change though. How many people threw out their old VCRs and VHS tapes when DVDs came along? That would affect the environment, same with people trashing their old TVs and computer monitors for new flat panel or high definition displays. Most of the older stuff was still functional but it was obsolete so it was trashed. Same with computers as everyone keeps upgrading every few years, and cassette tapes as everyone switched to CDs. Most of that stuff has very little value anymore so few places sell used ones, people just trash it all. Even furniture gets trashed as it looks dated and people get new pieces, I seriously doubt any furniture made in the last 30 years would be passed down in a family like the antique furniture that's currently collected(200 years old or more). It's just not going to happen as people need to keep buying new stuff to support the economy so people will have jobs.

[skaar]

I think this really should be one of those things people just walk away from... maybe I missed something but this seemed to get into a really heated argument about nothing really important.

I'm not a huge fan of the case redesign myself. I'd rather they'd use green blu-ray cases ;)

[Ed Oscuro]

Excuse the off-topic nastiness, but I'm getting disgusted.

All of my recent posts
You're forgetting that your early posts, which were full of unprovoked hostility and other useless badgering nonsense, have rightfully conditioned everybody to hate you.

SplashChick's persona is as spiteful as, and worse than I ever have thought I come off to other people at my worst, and (still) then some. It's like I decided to parody my pedantic impulses, add in a huge dose of useless self-absorption, and then just forget it all and start openly taunting people. I know I sometimes rag on the Forum, or get in little spats over petty matters...but cripes, there are limits. When even I think you're adding nothing to the discussion and are just fighting there is something seriously wrong with what you're doing.

Some people just turn into sociopaths on the web. SplashChick unfortunately seems to be (have turned into?) one of them. I hope it's just temporary.

Here's my own fun little SplashChick tale:

Back around when SC made her big entrance I made a risque (I guess) joke (set up by AB Positive) about appropriate words to use in place of "gay" (as a negative). Now, I'm all for people getting their gander up about stuff that isn't P.C., but only SplashChick decided to berate me in the thread.

I sent along a private message:

That was kind of an in-joke between me and AB +, just to clue you in. Sorry if you were offended, but it was a joke at the expense of types like the guy who made the gay comment in the first place.

Thanks for your cooperation,
Ed
It shows you what kind of person SplashChick is that they thought this was an invitation for further educational lectures even though they apparently didn't care a damn that it would insult somebody:

Thanks for the apology, but please consider how your jokes would be viewed by others when used in public.
My response to this was a simple, righteous

NOBODY TELLS THIS WOOKIEE WHAT TO DO
and I deleted the response without viewing it. I didn't feel that I had veered far enough into Michael Richards' territory to warrant soul-searching and I'm not sure what being told I'm a horrible person will do for my (or anybody's) spiritual balance. There is also something fundamentally different about being OK with a joke bombing and being OK with just intentionally flaming the hell out of people for not being PC, for not buttering the right side of a slice of toast, whatever it is that's got SplashChick worked into a lather at the moment.

I like to feel about people as Roy Rogers said he did: "I never met a man I didn't like." Now, given that I haven't actually met SplashChick and there being no girls on the interbutt anyway*, this is still true; but I still have this lingering feeling that, despite my attempts to rationalize it, I have encountered something unspeakably vile, something self-centered and fundamentally evil and irredeemable.

P.S. This is not a question; your response is not necessary or desired; in fact, you should feel bewildered and embarrassed that people are still paying attention to you after such bad behavior.

*There are a couple truly vile 'net personas that are of the male gender, though, so Roy Rogers' comment is as appropriate as ever.

[SplashChick]

The cases are being shipped the same way as the previous design, they're the same shape and size so they're being fit into packing boxes the same way. They should be designed to withstand the method of shipping.

Let's think what you're suggesting instead. You're suggesting that they're packed too tightly into the boxes. The solution would be to pack them into bigger boxes, but this would use more material for shipping. So while there would be less material used for something that most people would keep, there would be more material used for something that most people would throw away. How would that make sense from an environmental perspective? It doesn't benefit the environment to use more shipping material, they should be designed with shipping in mind so packing material can be reduced.

Yes, but if cases are only being damaged when coming from one source(in this case, Amazon), it's more likely that they're handling the games too roughly. When I say packed too tightly I mean that they're basically jamming cases into the box to get a few more in there. In that instance, it wouldn't happen if they had instead taken a handful of cases out of the box. If this same problem is happening with other distributors or shipping companies than the case probably does have a design problem as it can't seem to withstand normal shipping conditions.

[skaar]

Er... that's gay.

Seriously, someone end this. PLEASE.

[Ed Oscuro]

I think this really should be one of those things people just walk away from... maybe I missed something but this seemed to get into a really heated argument about nothing really important.
I can see pros and cons on both sides. Ultimately, though, you pays your money and you takes your choice - and then hopefully you're done with it.

[SplashChick]

Excuse the off-topic nastiness, but I'm getting disgusted.

You're forgetting that your early posts, which were full of unprovoked hostility and other useless badgering nonsense, have rightfully conditioned everybody to hate you.

SplashChick's persona is as spiteful as, and worse than I ever have thought I come off to other people at my worst, and (still) then some. It's like I decided to parody my pedantic impulses, add in a huge dose of useless self-absorption, and then just forget it all and start openly taunting people. I know I sometimes rag on the Forum, or get in little spats over petty matters...but cripes, there are limits. When even I think you're adding nothing to the discussion and are just fighting there is something seriously wrong with what you're doing.

Some people just turn into sociopaths on the web. SplashChick unfortunately seems to be (have turned into?) one of them. I hope it's just temporary.

Here's my own fun little SplashChick tale:

Back around when SC made her big entrance I made a risque (I guess) joke (set up by AB Positive) about appropriate words to use in place of "gay" (as a negative). Now, I'm all for people getting their gander up about stuff that isn't P.C., but only SplashChick decided to berate me in the thread.

I sent along a private message:

It shows you what kind of person SplashChick is that they thought this was an invitation for further educational lectures even though they apparently didn't care a damn that it would insult somebody:

My response to this was a simple, righteous

and I deleted the response without viewing it. I didn't feel that I had veered far enough into Michael Richards' territory to warrant soul-searching and I'm not sure what being told I'm a horrible person will do for my (or anybody's) spiritual balance. There is also something fundamentally different about being OK with a joke bombing and being OK with just intentionally flaming the hell out of people for not being PC, for not buttering the right side of a slice of toast, whatever it is that's got SplashChick worked into a lather at the moment.

I like to feel about people as Roy Rogers said he did: "I never met a man I didn't like." Now, given that I haven't actually met SplashChick and there being no girls on the interbutt anyway*, this is still true; but I still have this lingering feeling that, despite my attempts to rationalize it, I have encountered something unspeakably vile, something self-centered and fundamentally evil and irredeemable.

P.S. This is not a question; your response is not necessary or desired; in fact, you should feel bewildered and embarrassed that people are still paying attention to you after such bad behavior.

*There are a couple truly vile 'net personas that are of the male gender, though, so Roy Rogers' comment is as appropriate as ever.

You posted something offensive, and I asked you to stop, and somehow I still end up being the bad guy here? How does that work? I even said PLEASE. This seems more of a problem with you obsessing over my posts rather than what my posts actually contain.

[skaar]

http://www.madcoversite.com/burn-baby-burn.jpg

[Ed Oscuro]

You posted something offensive, and I asked you to stop, and somehow I still end up being the bad guy here? How does that work? I even said PLEASE. This seems more of a problem with you obsessing over my posts rather than what my posts actually contain.
Yeah, I posted something offensive, and I apologized. Tough cookies that wasn't good enough for Princess Perfect, I guess.

It's called YOU ARE AN OBNOXIOUS BORE WHO EXPRESSES ACADEMIC INTEREST IN THINGS WHICH DO NOT CONCERN YOU.

I am certainly qualified to make fun of people who are actually being offensive, obliquely if I so choose (gasp). AB Positive seemed to like it (it was in defense of what he was saying that I wrote something intentionally absurd, like the original comment). That's all that should matter. Your attempts to enforce a sterile PC world order are not desired or warranted.

If there was an endurance contest for sheer pedantry, you'd be my first choice for world's grand cham-peen.

[kupomogli]

Okay. I will mediate for the topic. This will be the final post in this thread, hopefully.

Screw the eco system. I want as much plastic as humanly possible in my video game cases. Less plastic = less new game smell when opening your brand new, up to $60, unless it's a collector's edition, game.

There. End of discussion.

*edit*

Also. Less plastic and those holes in the plastic look stupid.

[SplashChick]

Yeah, I posted something offensive, and I apologized. Tough cookies that wasn't good enough for Princess Perfect, I guess.

It's called YOU ARE AN OBNOXIOUS BORE WHO EXPRESSES ACADEMIC INTEREST IN THINGS WHICH DO NOT CONCERN YOU.

I am certainly qualified to make fun of people who are actually being offensive, obliquely if I so choose (gasp). AB Positive seemed to like it (it was in defense of what he was saying that I wrote something intentionally absurd, like the original comment). That's all that should matter. Your attempts to enforce a sterile PC world order are not desired or warranted.

If there was an endurance contest for sheer pedantry, you'd be my first choice for world's grand cham-peen.

It seemed less like an apology and more like a "quit whining, newbie" to me.