LCD TV Settings for old systems

[Mr Schickadance]

Was recently connecting my older systems to my LCD tv, all connected through composite. Was wondering if anyone knows any tricks or has any suggestions for getting the best visuals out of these older systems. NES, Genesis, 64. Thanks.

[Hari Seldon]

Best bet? VGA or HDMI plus emulation, old systems are a hit or miss.

[eastbayarb]

Was recently connecting my older systems to my LCD tv, all connected through composite. Was wondering if anyone knows any tricks or has any suggestions for getting the best visuals out of these older systems. NES, Genesis, 64. Thanks.

There really is no best way to get video out of LCD TV's. Of course, if you have systems that support RGB, you could get an RGB SCART cable for whatever system, and then a SCART to Component adapter and use that with an LCD TV. This is the best possible setup. I did it before and it looks pretty good with older systems. But I prefer an RGB monitor.

[Mr Schickadance]

I swore i saw people talking about some box that you plug your systems in before they get to the tv. Can't remember what it was.

[Oldskool]

I've found that lowering the sharpness a bit seems to smooth things out some, sometimes almost all the way down, it kind of blurrs the imperfections together.

Other than that emulation through VGA or something like the XBOX/DC/PS2 with component cables works pretty good.

Nes looks PRETTY through the Dreamcast running NesterDC.

[phreak97]

there are upscan converters or video scalers you can get which will make the picture look much better. the problem is that lcd screens have an ideal resolution specific to each display, and each display will scale everything it is given either up or down to meet that resolution, generally built in scalers suck quite alot at interlaced video and also lower resolutions, so the idea is to buy a better scaler to put between the console and the display, meaning the display gets something it knows how to work well with right from the start. theyre typically more than a hundred dollars, and the more you spend the better the results.. I cant name any off hand but ill post back if my friend comes online, he knows more than I do.

[Ed Oscuro]

Keep in mind that scalers generally add lag. In fact, even in normal use many sets will lag with the panel running, so there's often a "game mode" on sets (a bit less faithful color reproduction is the main issue, not an issue with many games, but then you still have to deal with upscaling your classic system).

[phreak97]

yeah, youll always get lag of some kind with a digital display running an analogue signal. thats part of what I meant by spend more money to get a better result. the more expensive ones have lesser lag usually.

personally I use a CRT for gaming.

[Mr Schickadance]

Thanks for the help on understanding this. I would love to add a CRT to my room just for older systems but i don't have the room unfortunately. Thats why I'm trying to figure the best way possible right now.

[eastbayarb]

Thanks for the help on understanding this. I would love to add a CRT to my room just for older systems but i don't have the room unfortunately. Thats why I'm trying to figure the best way possible right now.


Too bad you don't have the room. I have a 37" NEC CRT monitor capable of 15khz/31khz and I LOVE IT. Been using it for years and NES/Famicom Disk System, SNES, N64, Sega Genesis/32X/SegaCD, Sega Saturn, Dreamcast, Gamecube, Atari Jaguar, 3DO, Neo Geo MVS, PSX, PS2, never looked better via RGB/VGA

[Ed Oscuro]

My hope for the future is that the next wave of panel technology post-LCD will work acceptably well on a range of signals, which LCD so far hasn't.

Unfortunately, it might not happen that way. If, say, sedTV took off, you'd still have a sort of image that works essentially like an LCD, except with a tiny phosphor device each with its own electron, gun instead of one big tube serviced by a single gun that determines the timing and resolution. That's one big problem with all the newer resolution stuff: Picture elements on a grid updated essentially independently of the rest of the image means that the picture has to be upscaled when the source isn't the native resolution of the monitor, and thus lag results.

My main hope is that the newer panels will have better characteristics and speed than LCD screens so that upscaling will work better.

[Platinum]

Personally I'm a graphics kind of person, I like to get the best of the best when it comes to connections. With older systems I tend to use S-video because it was the best they had. And I only get the gold connetors as well. You're only kidding yourself if you get anything else.

SNES with s-video looks beautiful on my Vizio LCD

[eastbayarb]

Personally I'm a graphics kind of person, I like to get the best of the best when it comes to connections. With older systems I tend to use S-video because it was the best they had. And I only get the gold connetors as well. You're only kidding yourself if you get anything else.

SNES with s-video looks beautiful on my Vizio LCD


The best of the best is pure RGB, which is what I use. Makes S-Video look like RF.

[Platinum]

Yes RGB is great, I've seen it in action....

But I do not know too much about RGB though. You are referring to RGB SCART from Europe, right? Because I live in the USA, and RGB SCART is none too common around here.

[eastbayarb]

Yes RGB is great, I've seen it in action....

But I do not know too much about RGB though. You are referring to RGB SCART from Europe, right? Because I live in the USA, and RGB SCART is none too common around here.

RGB is a video standard. SCART is a cable type which can carry RGB (and composite, and s-video). In the states, you aren't all that limited. There are monitors out there that support RGB. When I am talking about RGB for old school consoles, I am referring to 15khz RGB. There is 31khz RGB, also known as VGA. My particular monitor supports 15khz and 31khz.

I have each of my RGB capable systems (NES, SNES, N64, Atari Jaguar, 3DO, Sega Genesis/CD/32x, Sega Saturn, Neo Geo, PC Engine/Super CD-ROM2, PSX, PS2) connected to 4-way SCART switchers (which have VGA style output), and those are connected to a 6-port VGA switch box, which is connected to my monitor via BNC to VGA cable.

[MatthewCallis]

I swore i saw people talking about some box that you plug your systems in before they get to the tv. Can't remember what it was.

Was it the XRGB 2 Plus or X-RGB 3? I use the XRGB 3 with my TV and mostly with my monitor, SNES and RGB modded NES look great.

(I only spell them different to help people searching for the terms).

[eastbayarb]

Was it the XRGB 2 Plus or X-RGB 3? I use the XRGB 3 with my TV and mostly with my monitor, SNES and RGB modded NES look great.

(I only spell them different to help people searching for the terms).

There is the XRGB-1, XRGB-2, XRGB-2 plus, and X-RGB3. All of which are difficult to find. They are meant to connect to a PC monitor and to get the best quality out of them, you connect your systems to them with a Japanese 21-pin RGB cable (looks identical to SCART RGB, but the wiring in the cable is different).

But still, having systems connecting to a pure RGB monitor (15khz) is best.

[MatthewCallis]

There is the XRGB-1, XRGB-2, XRGB-2 plus, and X-RGB3. All of which are difficult to find. They are meant to connect to a PC monitor and to get the best quality out of them, you connect your systems to them with a Japanese 21-pin RGB cable (looks identical to SCART RGB, but the wiring in the cable is different).

But still, having systems connecting to a pure RGB monitor (15khz) is best.

I've got the 2+ and 3 now, I had a 2, but the later ones work best on TVs from my experience, and his question was about LCD TVs, not the older huge monitors.

[MonoTekETeA]

I've got the 2+ and 3 now, I had a 2, but the later ones work best on TVs from my experience, and his question was about LCD TVs, not the older huge monitors.

Yes, the newer models work the best with LCDs, and with the first XRGB having very little support for very few models. The best part about all this is that you get a quality converter, that may lag a little bit, but is still your best choice all around for the price, and you put that through the VGA port on a LCD, which for most sets, won't process and just input straight to the screen.

Keep in mind, these suckers go for like $300, but for best picture quality, you get it.

Eastbay, where did you buy your Japanese cables? Any specific place?

Hope this helped.
-Jeremy

[eastbayarb]

Yes, the newer models work the best with LCDs, and with the first XRGB having very little support for very few models. The best part about all this is that you get a quality converter, that may lag a little bit, but is still your best choice all around for the price, and you put that through the VGA port on a LCD, which for most sets, won't process and just input straight to the screen.

Keep in mind, these suckers go for like $300, but for best picture quality, you get it.

Eastbay, where did you buy your Japanese cables? Any specific place?

Hope this helped.
-Jeremy

I use Euro SCART RGB cables (XRGB's only take the Japanese SCART, but like I mentioned earlier, EURO SCART cables can be rewired to work on the XRGB, or you can modify the XRGB to accept EURO SCART, OR, you can make a cable converter). They are easily available on ebay and they are much cheaper.

I don't use an XRGB because it's a line doubler, and a pure RGB monitor (CRT monitor) provides the very best picture for old school RGB gaming.

[Joshie]

Some of the high def lcd/plasma have a setting that inserts frames of black. I find this helps with the older systems. Also, lowering the bulbs in general. The colors can get pretty vibrant from old composite/svideo signals so if you have the tv on normal settings, you are going to get washed out. Blacks are hard to achieve on newer tvs. Contrast and backlight settings are very important, these need to be lowered (and lowering the backlight improves bulb life anyway, win win). And, as others said, lowering the sharpness also helps.

This is what mine looks like, at 55 inches. Pretty darn playable if you ask me (The blacks look darker then my crappy camera shows).
http://www.joshie.net/images/roundtable/sd3tv.jpg

[eastbayarb]

I still think a pure RGB (15khz for non VGA sources) monitor will always win

[Joshie]

I still think a pure RGB (15khz for non VGA sources) monitor will always win
I am not sure if this will help him with his original question :)

[Ed Oscuro]

(The blacks look darker then my crappy camera shows).
Yeah, I ran into this issue today playing around with a new lens. Cameras often take a longer exposure than one frame, hence the blurry and rather too bright look of the image while the other items in the picture are decently resolved (what brand is the beer btw?).

Have to say though, still kinda ugly. Then again, playing SNES games on my LCD monitor hasn't ever bothered me in that regard, so maybe the picture isn't helping me judge what the setup actually look like.

[Joshie]

Yeah, I ran into this issue today playing around with a new lens. Cameras often take a longer exposure than one frame, hence the blurry and rather too bright look of the image while the other items in the picture are decently resolved (what brand is the beer btw?).

Have to say though, still kinda ugly. Then again, playing SNES games on my LCD monitor hasn't ever bothered me in that regard, so maybe the picture isn't helping me judge what the setup actually look like.
It looks just like my CRT when all is said and done, but I am not RGBing it, just s-video.

The beer is a Magic Hat brew, Howl. I didn't like it as much as I do other Magic Hat (woah off topic :D). I recommend the Circus Boy