Michael Jackson/Sonic 3 Rumor proven true.

[Baloo]

http://vgmdb.net/forums/showthread.php?t=3511

According to French magazine Black and White, Brad Buxer has claimed that he worked on Sonic 3's music with Michael Jackson, and that the reason why MJ wasn't credited, was that he wasn't satisfied with the music. He also claims that the credits music was used as a base for Stranger in Moscow.


B&W: Can you clarify the rumor that Michael had in 1993 composed the music for Sonic 3 video game, for which you havel been credited?

Buxer: I've never played the game so I do not know what tracks on which Michael and I have worked the developers have kept, but we did compose music for the game. Michael called me at the time for help on this project, and that's what I did.
And if he is not credited for composing the music, it's because he was not happy with the result sound coming out of the console. At the time, game consoles did not allow an optimal sound reproduction, and Michael found it frustrating. He did not want to be associated with a product that devalued his music...

B&W: One of the surprising things in this soundtrack is that you can hear the chords from Stranger in Moscow, which is supposed to have been composed later...

Buxer: Yes, Michael and I had composed those chords for the game, and it has been used as base for Stranger in Moscow. [...]

[NayusDante]

Wait a minute, MJ had no problems with the overly synth-y Moonwalker audio, but wasn't satisfied with the far superior Sonic 3 music?

[j_factor]

I still wonder about the music changes in Sonic & Knuckles Collection (Carnival Night, Ice Cap, and Launch Base). People say it's because of this, but how come they don't have to change the music in all the other re-releases of Sonic 3?

I wonder if there is any correlation between the music he composed and the music that gets replaced when you lock-on with Sonic & Knuckles. Sonic 3 & Knuckles replaces the credits tune, the Knuckles theme, the Act 1 boss music, and the invincibility tune. I've always thought that the Sonic 3 versions of those tunes were a bit "different" sounding (but not in a bad way).

[Melf]

Yeah, this doesn't really prove anything outright, considering what other people have said.

Here's what I posted over at Sega-16:



And if he is not credited for composing the music, it's because he was not happy with the result sound coming out of the console. At the time, game consoles did not allow an optimal sound reproduction, and Michael found it frustrating. He did not want to be associated with a product that devalued his music...

This doesn't sit with me. So, MJ was frustrated at the sound production of the Genesis and wanted no part of a product that "devalued his music" years after personally helping to develop a Genesis game centered entirely around his music? Someone needs to remind this dude about Moonwalker.

Also, that would fly entirely in the face of what Roger Hector said about Jackson's attitude towards working on the project:


"Michael Jackson was a very big fan of Sonic," he revealed, "and he wanted to record a soundtrack for the game. He came to STI and met with the team to discuss the design theme, story and and feel of the game. He then went away and recorded an entire soundtrack that covered all of the worlds. It was fantastic." Hector's revelations don't stop there, and he continued to explain what happened. "the music fitted [sic] perfectly for the game, and they had a distinctive Michael Jackson sound."
That doesn't sound like someone frustrated with the hardware and wanting nothing to do with it.

Or what about what Scott Bayless said?


"When we finished there we walked him over to the sound studio, which was just down the hall. Suddenly there was this new person in the room; it was uncanny. Jackson came to life like someone had flipped a switch. It was obvious that the only thing he was excited about was the music."

This sounds more to me like another conflicting memory among those involved. This mystery is full of them, and I really don't think this solves anything. It just adds another contradiction to the others already there.

And the music he's referring to could simply be the score that Hector said Jackson did. It doesn't mean that any of it was used (and he can't confirm because he hasn't played the game and heard the score) or that any official contract was signed. He could simply have been credited as an inspiration. His comments don't prove at all that any of MJ's music actually made it into the game.

[HappehLemons]

How is this more creditable then the other people that have worked on Sonic 3 and said that he didn't take part in it?

[Baloo]

How is this more creditable then the other people that have worked on Sonic 3 and said that he didn't take part in it?

Thing is, none of the music composers for the game have said he didn't participate. Drossin and Scrirocco both attest to him composing music, and now so does Buxer.

[Kiddo]

There are some contradictions and very odd circumstances around this, but the major thing Buxer did here was outright say that one of the songs made was the basis for Stranger in Moscow. This is obviously the Sonic 3 Credits music, which... is pretty much that song.

IIRC most the other testimonies, particularly Drossin's if I recall, outright denied any of Jackson's music made it into the final game. When having to pick-and-choose which contradictions are true and which are false, Buxer's story there makes some more sense if only specifically because of the Sonic 3 Credits.

That being said, I don't buy Jackson being dissatisfied with how the music was sounding, either. Otherwise the Moonwalker video game would never have come to be. And he wouldn't have owned an -arcade cabinet- of it.

[Gameguy]

Michael Jackson voiced a character on The Simpsons but was credited under a different name, so not being credited with Sonic 3 is certainly possible. Is there any name in the credits of Sonic 3 that can't be traced back to any actual person?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stark_Raving_Dad

[TheRedEye]

The only pseudonym music credit for Sonic 3 is "Scirocco," but that seems more like an alias for a Japanese composer than Michael Jackson.

[Gameguy]

The only pseudonym music credit for Sonic 3 is "Scirocco," but that seems more like an alias for a Japanese composer than Michael Jackson.
That's not exactly a Japanese name, it seems to be of Italian origin.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sirocco

That doesn't really mean anything one way or the other though, it could be anybody really.

[Baloo]

http://www.musicpowers.com/cirocco.html

http://www.publiclibraries.com/authors/ciroccomp/index.html

Cirocco Jones is a musician that worked with Michael Jackson. His site even claims that him and MJ worked on Sonic 3 together.


Cirocco’s projects include collaborating with “The King of Pop”, Michael Jackson, for the Sega Video Game “Sonic The Hedge Hog”It's not a pseudonym.

[TheRedEye]

Then I guess the answer is no, no credited pseudonyms that might be Jackson.

[Melf]

Thing is, none of the music composers for the game have said he didn't participate. Drossin and Scrirocco both attest to him composing music, and now so does Buxer.

Drossin is directly contradicted by Roger Hector on this though, and neither of them - hell, no one - states directly that the music he might have done actually made it into the final game. Given that there is zero evidence of an actual contract being signed, I highly doubt any of it did.


There are some contradictions and very odd circumstances around this, but the major thing Buxer did here was outright say that one of the songs made was the basis for Stranger in Moscow. This is obviously the Sonic 3 Credits music, which... is pretty much that song.

Buxer says that he composed some chords. He doesn't say how much of the whole song was used. Even if it was the whole thing, it still says nothing about the other songs. Which ones did he do? Which did Jackson do? Which were used? Were any changed? Nothing about any of this is confirmed or explained here.


IIRC most the other testimonies, particularly Drossin's if I recall, outright denied any of Jackson's music made it into the final game. When having to pick-and-choose which contradictions are true and which are false, Buxer's story there makes some more sense if only specifically because of the Sonic 3 Credits.

Drossin basically said that Jackson was involved at some point, but he has no idea how long or how much that involvement was. He even says that any influence Jackson's music had on the final score was coincidence!


That being said, I don't buy Jackson being dissatisfied with how the music was sounding, either. Otherwise the Moonwalker video game would never have come to be. And he wouldn't have owned an -arcade cabinet- of it.

I don't know how Jackson would have shunned the Genesis for its sound chip, after having helped design an entire game for it based on his music... three years prior to Sonic 3!


Michael Jackson voiced a character on The Simpsons but was credited under a different name, so not being credited with Sonic 3 is certainly possible. Is there any name in the credits of Sonic 3 that can't be traced back to any actual person?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stark_Raving_Dad

I find it hard to believe that Sega would do either of the following:

A) Contract the most popular entertainer in the world and not advertise that fact AT ALL.

B) Contract the most popular entertainer in the world, fire him, use his music but not credit him, and not tell anyone.

It makes no sense whatsoever.

[Gameguy]

I find it hard to believe that Sega would do either of the following:

A) Contract the most popular entertainer in the world and not advertise that fact AT ALL.

B) Contract the most popular entertainer in the world, fire him, use his music but not credit him, and not tell anyone.

It makes no sense whatsoever.
I find it similar to the Simpsons episode he was involved in, I'll point out the main points I got from it. This will be pretty much quoted from wikipedia word for word.

"Michael Jackson performed the speaking voice of Leon Kompowsky under the pseudonym of John Jay Smith. Jackson was a fan of the show,[5] and called Matt Groening one night and offered to do a guest spot."

"Following the table read, Jackson stipulated his conditions: he would record his speaking parts but not receive credit, and his singing voice would be performed by a sound-alike."

"Jackson was a huge fan of Bart and,[12] wanting to give him a number one single, co-wrote the song "Do the Bartman" although he did not receive credit for it."

"The producers of the show were legally prevented from confirming Jackson guest starred at the time, although many media sources assumed it was really him."
So basically, Michael Jackson was a fan of the show and went out if his way to contact Matt Groening and asked to be in the show, he wasn't approached. He didn't want to receive any credit at all, the producers were legally prevented from confirming his involvement. It wasn't just for that episode, he wrote a separate song for Bart and did not receive credit for it.

It seems similar to how he felt about Sonic, he was a fan of Sonic(I have to look this up again, I know I read it somewhere) and if he ended up recording any music he probably would have felt the same way as before and insisted on not getting any credit. If they were also legally prevented from confirming anything, that could be why so many employees kept denying any knowledge of it.



Plus there's a couple of sites that gave a bit more info, please look through them for all the info as it's explained better. I'm just taking quotes from them as is, they're not my own words(I'm not stealing anything so I want to point this out).
http://www.vintagecomputing.com/forum/index.php?topic=31.0
http://www.sonic-cult.org/dispart.php?catid=1&gameid=3&subid=2&artid=16

Who actually received credit for the soundtrack?
- BRAD BUXER
- BOBBY BROOKS
- DARRYL ROSS
- GEOFF GRACE
- DOUG GRIGSBY III
- SCIROCCO
- HOWARD DROSSIN

Who were these guys?
"Among his henchman were Brad Buxer (worked with Jackson all the time), Bobby Brooks (credited for Synthesizer Programming and Drums and Percussions in MJs HIStory and other albums), Darryl Ross (wrote music for Jacko, also credited in HIStory booklet), Geoff Grace (worked with Michael Jackson, also credited in HIStory booklet), and Doug Grigsby (credited in MJs HIStory and Blood On The Dance Floor - google this one up yourself - there are tonsa results)."

If Michael Jackson wasn't involved anymore I'm not sure why members of his team would still be credited, why wouldn't Sega just get other people completely to make different tracks? There weren't just a few people who happened to work with Michael Jackson before, they all did.

[Nikademus1969]

Wait a minute, MJ had no problems with the overly synth-y Moonwalker audio, but wasn't satisfied with the far superior Sonic 3 music?


I was under the impression that Michael oversaw the music for the arcade game, not the home versions.

[j_factor]

I was under the impression that Michael oversaw the music for the arcade game, not the home versions.

The arcade version was still "overly synth-y", and barely any better than the Genesis version.

[Legend Of Zelda]

Either way, the music rules!!!!!!

[Game Freak]

It seems similar to how he felt about Sonic, he was a fan of Sonic(I have to look this up again, I know I read it somewhere)

sonic-cult.org/imagebin/mjs2.jpg
sonic-cult.org/imagebin/MJSonic.jpg

need i say more?

I too find it strongly suspicious how all credited musicians were also credited on the HIStory album (or Blood on the Dance Floor.) I have all MJ's albums and in looking at the credits for HIStory Disc 1 i noticed that Brad Buxer was involved. I pulled out Dangerous and he's credited in at least half the songs (as either synthesizers or percussion.)

Here's the credits from HIStory disc 2.

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f266/gamefreak360/mj1.png
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f266/gamefreak360/mj2.png

[Ed Oscuro]

I find it hard to believe that Sega would do either of the following:

A) Contract the most popular entertainer in the world and not advertise that fact AT ALL.

B) Contract the most popular entertainer in the world, fire him, use his music but not credit him, and not tell anyone.

It makes no sense whatsoever.
MJ was legendary for driving hard bargains. If they had put his name on something he didn't want it on, they would've paid dearly for that oversight.

[bombman]

If anything this is a good arguing point for SNES fans. (Michael Jackson accepted a deal to make Sonic music, then when he heard what the Genesis sound chip did to his music he changed his mind.)

[Melf]

I find it similar to the Simpsons episode he was involved in, I'll point out the main points I got from it. This will be pretty much quoted from wikipedia word for word.

So basically, Michael Jackson was a fan of the show and went out if his way to contact Matt Groening and asked to be in the show, he wasn't approached. He didn't want to receive any credit at all, the producers were legally prevented from confirming his involvement. It wasn't just for that episode, he wrote a separate song for Bart and did not receive credit for it.

It seems similar to how he felt about Sonic, he was a fan of Sonic(I have to look this up again, I know I read it somewhere) and if he ended up recording any music he probably would have felt the same way as before and insisted on not getting any credit. If they were also legally prevented from confirming anything, that could be why so many employees kept denying any knowledge of it.

The thing is, no one I've spoken to who was at Sega at the time has denied knowledge. They've come out and simply said he wasn't involved. The only Sega people who say he was are Hector and Drossin, and their testimonies directly contradict each other.

You also have to remember that Jackson was at SOA a lot. Kalinske, Bayless, and others have said he showed up frequently. I doubt he would have wanted to keep his name out of Sonic 3 completely, given his history with the company. Jackson helped Sega create an entire game about his music. That's a major step up from what he did for the Simpsons (for which he was credited under a pseudonym and revealed in a later episode).


Plus there's a couple of sites that gave a bit more info, please look through them for all the info as it's explained better. I'm just taking quotes from them as is, they're not my own words(I'm not stealing anything so I want to point this out).
http://www.vintagecomputing.com/forum/index.php?topic=31.0
http://www.sonic-cult.org/dispart.php?catid=1&gameid=3&subid=2&artid=16

I went through those when I researched the article (I cited the Sonic Cult one, actually). I addressed that information in the article.


If Michael Jackson wasn't involved anymore I'm not sure why members of his team would still be credited, why wouldn't Sega just get other people completely to make different tracks? There weren't just a few people who happened to work with Michael Jackson before, they all did.

If what Hector said about Jackson actually composing a soundtrack that wasn't used is true, then it make sense for him to hire some of Jackson's collaborators to produce a score that would sound like something Jackson himself would have done. Sort of striving to preserve the feel and sound of the score Jackson presented to him. It doesn't necessarily mean that Jackson's work was actually used (something I sincerely doubt, since Hector himself says he turned over the only copy to Sega's legal department). Using other people's work for inspiration is a common thing in the gaming industry. Hector simply got the best people to do it in this case.


MJ was legendary for driving hard bargains. If they had put his name on something he didn't want it on, they would've paid dearly for that oversight.

If they used anything he did, they would have paid dearly for it. The thing is, absolutely no one from Sega, its own president included, remembers signing anything with him. In fact, they say he had no further dealings with the company after Moonwalker. I'd think someone would remember Michael Jackson signing a contract with Sega.

[Richter Belmount]

I AM COMPLETELY SHOCKED AND SURPRISED BY THESE TURN OF EVENTS! Never never saw it coming.

[Moon Jump]

The MJ/Sonic 3 video was one of the first videos I ever watched on Youtube and I'm glad to see they finally admitted to it. I don't really agree with the whole comment about the sound not being up to par with what he wanted.

I really think it all came down to the first court case he was in. They just dropped his name off the title because they didn't want to be associated with him if he lost the case.

I'm still thankful I have the cart from the game's launch so all of the music is intact. I've heard the replacement tracks and they don't hold a candle to what MJ did. I always wanted to see a rebirth to the Sonic franchise where the game would be back in 2D and they'd get MJ to do the music. I hate the music now in the Sonic games. Too much bubblegum pop music.

[Kiddo]

I'm still thankful I have the cart from the game's launch so all of the music is intact. I've heard the replacement tracks and they don't hold a candle to what MJ did. I always wanted to see a rebirth to the Sonic franchise where the game would be back in 2D and they'd get MJ to do the music. I hate the music now in the Sonic games. Too much bubblegum pop music.

I don't recall the tracks being replaced in any revision of Sonic 3, unless you're refer to locking on with Sonic & Knuckles, or the Sonic & Knuckles PC Collection - every release of Sonic 3 has had the same soundtrack, unlike, say, Sonic CD.

[MetalFRO]

Wait a minute, MJ had no problems with the overly synth-y Moonwalker audio, but wasn't satisfied with the far superior Sonic 3 music?

I was thinking this as well....his name & music was all over that game, so if "console music" frustrated him, I guess that's why he didn't want to be associated with the Sonic 3 score, if in fact he actually was involved in that process.

[Greg2600]

In the case of Moonwalker, I suppose Jackson was much more concerned with the quality of the arcade game, not to mention the quality of the Moonwalker video itself. Plus, don't forget that game was released on nearly all computer formats at the time, and nearly all had worse graphics and sound than the Genesis. He was being paid for his image, too. He was a noted arcade aficionado and collector, and knew quite well about marketing. Sonic 3 did not feature MJ's likeness at all, so it wasn't really a MJ item.

Also, in 1989 the Genesis had the best sound for any console. By the time of Sonic 3 (1994) the Genesis did not. My guess is Jackson simply didn't have the time to finish the work, as the first legal issue had consumed his time around then.

[Nikademus1969]

It is also possible that the whole "The genesis sounds crappy" excuse was an attempt to save face after Michael got dropped from the project. IIRC, he was actually dropped initially because Sega did not want to deal with negative publicity after he was accused of child molestation.

[Push Upstairs]

Or "he didn't like the sound" is just another way of saying that his stuff wasn't used.

Given the MJ love as of late, if he did actually do the soundtrack to the game, someone would have come out as said it in a manner that isn't so goddamn sketchy.

[Kiddo]

Or "he didn't like the sound" is just another way of saying that his stuff wasn't used.

Given the MJ love as of late, if he did actually do the soundtrack to the game, someone would have come out as said it in a manner that isn't so goddamn sketchy.

Considering the amount of time since his passing away, I think a decent amount of people have talked - the problem is the contradicting testimonies.


In the case of Moonwalker, I suppose Jackson was much more concerned with the quality of the arcade game, not to mention the quality of the Moonwalker video itself. Plus, don't forget that game was released on nearly all computer formats at the time, and nearly all had worse graphics and sound than the Genesis.

One could debate that the arcade version itself had worse sound, although that'd be a tough call - it sounds pretty close to the Genesis version's synths.

[Haoie]

Anyone tried the PC version of the game?

It sounds a lot better than when it comes out of the MD, that's for sure.

[Greg2600]

Anyone tried the PC version of the game?

It sounds a lot better than when it comes out of the MD, that's for sure.
No way no how! The computer versions are not the same game. They feature a top view where you roam around what I think is Neverland and enter buildings. The game switches to side view, where you walk around the room. It might even be point and click at that point. General rule of thumb, consoles way better than PC until at least the 486-era in the mid-90's.

[Ed Oscuro]

Anyone tried the PC version of the game?

It sounds a lot better than when it comes out of the MD, that's for sure.
Which soundcard?

[grolt]

For those questioning the memories of everyone involved in this whole debate: I'd say it's a lot easier to remember Michael Jackson actually working on a project than not. Like if you're in your cubile all day plugging away at code, maybe you'd never be able to tell that the code you're working on was Jackson's. Now, if you're the one who has actually spoken and collaborated with him, I'd say that's a lot tougher to forget or just magically dream up in the haze of history. I'd say that testimonial all but confirms something we all basically knew but just sort of put aside because of all these conflicting reports.

As for Jackson not wanting to be credited because of the sound quality and the apparent double standard it brings up with his Moonwalker...there's a difference. Moonwalker was an emulation of songs he's already prepared and presented in superior formats. Sonic 3 would have been the main source for his compositions, and thus a poor platform to exhibit quality (compared to the LPs and CDs Jackson had been used to). I could buy that.

[Push Upstairs]

I figured MJ was a busy guy doing music stuff all the time, so his foray into video game music wouldn't be as terribly memorable as you make it out to be.

I mean it is a unique project considering it is (possibly) MJ doing video game music, but at the end of the day it is still another music composing gig.

[Haoie]

Well, I thought it was better.

The MD had terrible music potential, anyway, compared to the SNES or something.