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Soviet Conscript
12-06-2009, 01:19 AM
well been wanting to build a pure DOS pc for awhile now and i picked up a case and most of the other stuff today. only issue is i can't decide on which one of the 2 motherboards i have so i was looking for some advice. i really want this to be a very late 80's to mid 90's machine. so def pre win95 (already have a dedicated pc for that time period

i'm useing a 200mhz mmx intel but i've been thinking that may be to fast. would it be worth the effort to downgrade to a 120 pent or lower?

the 2 motherboards both socket 7 i have are

PA-2013
this ones nice because it already come with things like the connections for the PS/2 mouse and keyboard. the main thing with useing this is the pure convience for me
1 agp slot (i don't intend to use this)
2 ISA slots
4 PCI slots

Asus VX97
i've been told this is a superior MB but it presents a few issues,. for one it only has a connector for a 5 pin keyboad. everything else i'll have to buy and add on. it also uses a AT power supply which i do not have, thus more stuff to buy
4 ISA slots
4 PCI slots

i really like how the ASUS has 4 ISA slots but the more i think about it will i really need more then 2? i wanted to def do the soundcard ISA since i already have a sound blaster 16 but i figured i would go PCI for the video card (dos supports pci with no problems right?)

i've never acually used DOS to much so i'm really almost a total noob when it comes to dos but i do intend to learn.

any suggestions are appriciated.

aaron7
12-06-2009, 08:00 AM
Neither. If it's strictly DOS I'd go with a 486. Much more period-correct.

Arkhan
12-06-2009, 08:23 AM
yeah if you're goin DOS, you want yourself a nice 486.

and if you can get the computer to run Ultima VII and VIII, then you can get it to run anything. :)

aaron7
12-06-2009, 08:37 AM
http://cgi.ebay.com/Intel-i486-DX-33-i486DX-33-486-w-Motherboard-Memory_W0QQitemZ190354694945QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_ DefaultDomain_0?hash=item2c52062321

phreakindee
12-06-2009, 10:06 AM
For pure DOS for the time period, definitely a 486. Pretty much any Pentium is overkill. 16MB of ram and DOS 5 or 6 is all I have ever needed and is what I use on my machines for that time. Usually what I do is find a gutted machine of the time with the processor I want and go from there. It is often cheaper that way too.

Soviet Conscript
12-06-2009, 03:24 PM
hmmm, well then i mays well just throw together what i have now and see how far i get with that and stock up on what i need for a 486 setup.

the only concern i have for a 486 is the later DOS games such as daggerdall, spacequest 5, 6 and things of that nature. but then again i could always use this 200mhtz pc for that.

DOS runs pci cards fine though correct? am i really going to need anything other then a soundcard and a graphics adaptor card wise?

thanks for the advice guys. always appriciated.

Jorpho
12-06-2009, 10:19 PM
the main thing with useing this is the pure convience for meThen that is what you should use. "Period correctness" is meaningless if it's a machine that's too cumbersome to bother with. Adding a PS/2 mouse port isn't nearly as easy as it sounds.

I likewise disagree that a 486 is absolutely the way to go. The ideal would actually be a fast 486 or Pentium with a turbo button, but you should easily be able to use a slowdown program (or BIOS trickery) to run programs for which a 200 MHz Pentium is too fast. It is good to have that speed available to you when you need it.

And yes, a PCI video card will work just fine from DOS, and so will an AGP card! The only thing you really have to worry about as far as DOS programs are concerned is VESA compatibility, which isn't much of an issue.

Arkhan
12-06-2009, 11:20 PM
daggerfall requires at least a Pentium ..90...? Yeah , P90

You're at a bit of an impasse. Tons of games are 486 designed, and then some you want are Pentium......

so you can either setup a 486 and not get to play some stuff, or setup what you got already and use Mo'Slo where needed.


games like Ultima V and VI are going to run like they are on coke. Mo'Slo is your friend.

phreakindee
12-07-2009, 07:19 AM
Mo'slo is indeed one solution, but to me it's like slowing down a Corvette by coating it in molasses and honey. It'll do the job, but depending how slow you need you often just get a sticky, uneven result.

I never use Mo'slo anymore because I nearly always get skipping or stuttering gameplay, and sound is especially screwed up then too. To me, it's unplayable.

Jorpho
12-07-2009, 09:39 AM
Like I said, there's some BIOS trickery that can be used as an alternative to MoSlo. It might let you set the processor clock multiplier, for instance (instead of requiring you to fiddle with jumpers on the motherboard), or disable processor cache.

Arkhan
12-07-2009, 09:44 AM
mo'slo seems to only do good for games of the pre-eyecandy era

like Ultima III, etc.

though most ultima's have been patched and tweaked nowadays

I still think if convenience is your goal, just use frikkin' DOSbox. Hell it might even run on that 200mhz computer :)

Soviet Conscript
12-07-2009, 01:24 PM
mo'slo seems to only do good for games of the pre-eyecandy era

like Ultima III, etc.

though most ultima's have been patched and tweaked nowadays

I still think if convenience is your goal, just use frikkin' DOSbox. Hell it might even run on that 200mhz computer :)

ah...no dosbox, i can do that on my modern pc if i wanted to go that route.

i just ment convience by if i have these 2 computers from around roughly the same time period and abilities i would rather put the one together thats easier rather then track down an AT power supply and all the ports for the mouse and whatnot

annoying thing is the PA-2013 MB thats the more convient one came with a socket 7
400 mhtz AMD. when i take the intell 200mhtz mmx out of the ASUS board and put it in the PA-2013 MB it will not work. it powers on but thats it.

i'm guessing this has to do with jumper settings on the MB that have to be fiddeled with now? i tried messing with those according to the manual i found online but no effect so maybe i have to play with the voltage jumper settings now?

aaron7
12-07-2009, 01:27 PM
Uhh.. yah. The AMD K6-2 and the Intel Pentium have very different voltage settings.

Look up your CPU and see what it takes. Might have already cooked it though.

Soviet Conscript
12-07-2009, 01:31 PM
the MB? i already switched the chips back and it runs fine with the AMD.

oh well, like i said i know nothing about really old PC's. i used a c64 and an Amiga back in the early 90's.

seeing as the intel ran me like $2 i'm not to concerned if its dead

Soviet Conscript
12-08-2009, 12:25 AM
well, fiddeled with the voltage jumpers acording to the MB manual i found online and got the intel chip to run so thankfully it wasn't fried

funny thing is its running at 250Mhtz acording to the startup screen. i checked and confirmed its a 200mhtz chip which means its being overclocked?

lol, just the opposite of what i wanted to do. oh well. tried fiddeling with the jumper settings but no effect. the layout from the manual is slightly diffrent from my MB so i probibly have a diffrent revision but i can't find any indication of the rev. #

i think i'll take the advice here and keep on the lookout for a nice 486 setup

Arkhan
12-08-2009, 01:34 AM
i think i'll take the advice here and keep on the lookout for a nice 486 setup

daggerfall requires pentium powa!

Soviet Conscript
12-08-2009, 02:12 AM
daggerfall requires pentium powa!

yhea. but i just got daggerfall working fine on my other newer pc anyways. i'm probibly just going to use this machine for those games that either do not run or run bad natively on my win machines. elder scrolls: arena and stonekeep are two games for example i never was able to get running on any of my windows machines without the aid of dosbox and even then it was some work to get them running somewhat close to normal

i'll probibly throw together a 486 setup just for the hell of it for the really old dos stuff. but it will probibly just be one of those deals if i see one really cheap at a flea market or something

on the issue of this 200mhtz cpu running at 250. it gets very hot for the few times i test ran it. were talking under a minute and its ouch to the touch hot. think it will be ok after a heatsink/fan or should i just hold off on it.

its funny you mentioned Ultima VIII earlier. my first pc was a AST pentium 133 and ultima VIII was one of the first games i bought for it. i couldn't get it to run under win 95. i knew absolutely nothing about pc's at the time but somehow i went into the dos editor and changed something and it worked fine ever since then. i still have no idea how i got that game to work.

Arkhan
12-08-2009, 02:14 AM
on the issue of this 200mhtz cpu running at 250. it gets very hot for the few times i test ran it. were talking under a minute and its ouch to the touch hot. think it will be ok after a heatsink/fan or should i just hold off on it.

overclocking a 200mhz cpu is like dropping a V8 in a go-kart and wondering why you're a quadriplegic.

Ed Oscuro
12-08-2009, 02:32 AM
Moslo has gottrn better over time, and has some less CPU-baking ways of slowing instruction speed.

Jorpho
12-08-2009, 09:33 AM
yhea. but i just got daggerfall working fine on my other newer pc anyways.Oh, but that would be an impure, unauthentic experience!!! We can't have that, can we?


elder scrolls: arena and stonekeep are two games for example i never was able to get running on any of my windows machines without the aid of dosbox and even then it was some work to get them running somewhat close to normalYes, I'm sure you'll be able to get them running on an older machine just perfectly and without any effort at all! :roll:


think it will be ok after a heatsink/fan or should i just hold off on it.You're really, really not supposed to run these things without some kind of fan/heatsink.

Soviet Conscript
12-08-2009, 11:42 AM
Oh, but that would be an impure, unauthentic experience!!! We can't have that, can we?

Yes, I'm sure you'll be able to get them running on an older machine just perfectly and without any effort at all! :roll:

You're really, really not supposed to run these things without some kind of fan/heatsink.

i'm really not sure what to say jorpho, i don't have problems when people use dosbox i think its a great tool but to eatch his own.

its just a matter of taste. i used to emulate all the time, consoles other computers, basicly everything i could, it was just so much easier and convient but after awhile it just didn't feel right. thats my own personnal thing. this was especially wierd for me with the PC because unlike consoles a pc is a pc wether its useing DOS or windows. i didn't really heavily get into retro pc's till maybe 2 years ago and since then i've just sort of had to make a comprimise with myself about emulation, its not a perfect one but i like it.

i've had fun putting together old machines, hunting down parts messing with old OS's i never really delt with before, yes i do make comprimises at times for convience. if a game runs fine under windows XP i'll play it there. if not i'll run it under win98SE or DOS. basicly the game is just to try to not use emulation tools such as dosbox. its not for everyone but its fun for me.

as for the CPU i have a fan and heatsink but i'm just testing the thing right now and switching cpu's and jumpers to check out settings. i don't want to fiddle with the heatsink/fan every 5 minutes so they stay off till i get the setup i want.


overclocking a 200mhz cpu is like dropping a V8 in a go-kart and wondering why you're a quadriplegic.

i don't acually want it overclocked, i think it may be to fast for my purposes as it is i just don't know how to unoverclock it. my concern is that the extra stress will damage the cpu or anything else even with a heatsink/fan. i never overclocked anything before and i don't know if certain cpus can be safely overclocked like mine is. lets just pretend this is 1997 for a minute and you want to overclock the newes cpus avalible. is it ok to leave the cpu overclocked or should i keep trying to adjust it if i can because its liable to cause damage?

Jorpho
12-08-2009, 12:27 PM
i've had fun putting together old machines, hunting down parts messing with old OS's i never really delt with before, yes i do make comprimises at times for convience.Then it seems that the only one who can answer the questions about "convenience" described in your first post is you, and you alone.


i don't acually want it overclocked, i think it may be to fast for my purposes as it is i just don't know how to unoverclock it. my concern is that the extra stress will damage the cpu or anything else even with a heatsink/fan. i never overclocked anything before and i don't know if certain cpus can be safely overclocked like mine is. lets just pretend this is 1997 for a minute and you want to overclock the newes cpus avalible. is it ok to leave the cpu overclocked or should i keep trying to adjust it if i can because its liable to cause damage?If you're concerned about damage, stop running stuff without a heatsink! Right now! Unless of course your need for convenience outweighs your concerns about potential damage.

And what are these questions about overclocking anyway? If you want a faster CPU, you have a K6-2 400 sitting right there!

Anyway, I really like the Red Hill CPU guide for questions like these:
http://redhill.net.au/iu.html

Soviet Conscript
12-08-2009, 12:35 PM
Then it seems that the only one who can answer the questions about "convenience" described in your first post is you, and you alone.

If you're concerned about damage, stop running stuff without a heatsink! Right now! Unless of course your need for convenience outweighs your concerns about potential damage.

And what are these questions about overclocking anyway? If you want a faster CPU, you have a K6-2 400 sitting right there!

Anyway, I really like the Red Hill CPU guide for questions like these:
http://redhill.net.au/iu.html

*sigh* ok, i'll blame myself since i suppose i was being unclear.

i don't like to make comprimises for convience but i do if i have to. so i ask questions here to get information so i decide what comprimises i don't have to make or to see how other people would go about these situations.

now, for the cpu. when i'm testing the machine its usually just to see what the startup is saying about the cpu speed or if the the cpu is running. its usually under a minute acually about 30 seconds. in this small time frame i notice the cpu heats up alot. i was anaware that damage can be cause in such a short time. if thats the case i'll make sure i have it cooled even dureing these quick test periods.

my questions is in the long run (putting a heatsink/fan on, closeing case playing a game for an hour or more time) will this damage anything. i do not want the overclock i'm just unable to remove it because of my lack of skill.i acually would prefer it slower. my origional goal was to get a pent 100 or 133 but couldn't source one locally and havn't felt like ebay. if i get a general feeling from people it will be fine i'll leave as is, if not i'll just wait till i either figure it out or get a slower cpu.

Jorpho, i do appriciate the help and comments (most of them). i'm not trying to come off jerkish or anything, i apolagize if i am. just trying to get some info.

Jorpho
12-08-2009, 01:00 PM
i do not want the overclock i'm just unable to remove it because of my lack of skill.Then it would seem your best option by far is to get more skilled. :P

In what way is the jumper layout from the manual different from your motherboard? If you need to find the motherboard revision, you should try to look at the numbers that appear at the bottom of the screen when you first start up the computer (i.e. during the POST test).

Often jumper settings are also silk-screened onto the motherboard somewhere, but they can be easy to miss.

SegaAges
12-08-2009, 01:30 PM
If you need the manual, just get the mb type and revision and google it.

that is how i get schematics when i need them

Soviet Conscript
12-08-2009, 08:24 PM
Then it would seem your best option by far is to get more skilled. :P

In what way is the jumper layout from the manual different from your motherboard? If you need to find the motherboard revision, you should try to look at the numbers that appear at the bottom of the screen when you first start up the computer (i.e. during the POST test).

Often jumper settings are also silk-screened onto the motherboard somewhere, but they can be easy to miss.


heh, yhea i'm working on the skill part.

in the manual i'm looking at they are located in the same area but its in two rows. its hard to explane. this is how the setup looks in the manual ..:: on my board it looks like this :::

i tried the trial and error approch and either got the same results or it didn't work at all. i'll give the board anouther look when i go at it again.

the thing with overclocking i was wondering was. is it pretty much ok to overclock any cpu or are only certain ones built for overclocking. if the overclock on this cpu isn't fundimentally damageing to it i suppose i don't have an issue with it as is.

Jorpho
12-08-2009, 08:35 PM
You could take some pictures and post them, you know. And if you have a digital copy of the manual, you can post that too.


the thing with overclocking i was wondering was. is it pretty much ok to overclock any cpu or are only certain ones built for overclocking. if the overclock on this cpu isn't fundimentally damageing to it i suppose i don't have an issue with it as is.Did you not look at http://redhill.net.au/iu.html ?! Also, you've already said repeatedly that 250 MHz was too fast (for some reason) ! Why not do a proper job of this?

I would say unless you have a nice hefty heatsink on hand, you're taking a risk with overclocking, period.

Soviet Conscript
12-09-2009, 01:47 AM
You could take some pictures and post them, you know. And if you have a digital copy of the manual, you can post that too.

Did you not look at http://redhill.net.au/iu.html ?! Also, you've already said repeatedly that 250 MHz was too fast (for some reason) ! Why not do a proper job of this?

I would say unless you have a nice hefty heatsink on hand, you're taking a risk with overclocking, period.

found some other jumpers and played with them. got the mhz down to 210 which is fine for my purposes. cpu runs way cooler now.

only issue now is i get a floppy drive error (40). tried 2 diffrent drives and 2 diffrent cables and same thing. oh well

Arkhan
12-09-2009, 02:37 AM
going to sound like a prick here but do you got the cables on backwards?

The red stripe goes on the side closest to the power connector.

Soviet Conscript
12-09-2009, 12:41 PM
going to sound like a prick here but do you got the cables on backwards?

The red stripe goes on the side closest to the power connector.

na, you don't. sometimes its the simpleist things you don't realize

but no. i got it working, i think it was a bad drive and cable.

Arkhan
12-14-2009, 10:22 PM
na, you don't. sometimes its the simpleist things you don't realize

but no. i got it working, i think it was a bad drive and cable.


:)

whats the scoop on 486ing it up and crap?

BHvrd
12-14-2009, 10:44 PM
Seems like a good one:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&Item=270501627313&Category=162075&_trkparms=algo%3DLVI%26its%3DI%26otn%3D1



.....

Jorpho
12-14-2009, 11:30 PM
Two hundred and thirty bucks? Sure, I suppose if you're in a hurry and just want something that works. But odds are pretty much anyone anywhere in the US can do better than that, given enough time.

I'd be inclined to look for something with PCI slots, myself, and there are boards with turbo buttons that can go a lot faster than 33 MHz.

Soviet Conscript
12-15-2009, 12:19 AM
Two hundred and thirty bucks? Sure, I suppose if you're in a hurry and just want something that works. But odds are pretty much anyone anywhere in the US can do better than that, given enough time.

I'd be inclined to look for something with PCI slots, myself, and there are boards with turbo buttons that can go a lot faster than 33 MHz.

i agree with jorpho on this one. if i had the money to throw around, yhea i may go for it just for sheer convience but i can spend a fraction of that amount and just build it myself.

my local area seems pretty dried up of anything console and old pc related. as much as i would love a pre built system i'm probibly just going to snag the parts piece by piece on ebay and build it that way. i have most of the drives i need, 1.44mb floppy, cd drive, 5 1/2 inch drive. the prices for a decent 486 + MB/AT PSU don't look that bad either as well as a pci or isa vga card. i have a SB-16 card already. i think the annoying part is just finding a proper case unless i can finangel an AT board into one of the newer towers i have here

Arkhan
12-15-2009, 11:31 AM
use LEGO bricks.

Soviet Conscript
12-15-2009, 02:30 PM
And yes, a PCI video card will work just fine from DOS, and so will an AGP card! The only thing you really have to worry about as far as DOS programs are concerned is VESA compatibility, which isn't much of an issue.

most of the boards i've looked at either have PCI slots or ISA VESA slots but i don't think i've come accross any with both. which is better to have in your opinion if were talking 486 dos only?

Jorpho
12-15-2009, 05:41 PM
Sir, there is no such thing as a VESA slot. You are thinking of a VLB slot. (Yes, VLB stands for VESA Local Bus, but it means something different in that case.)

Oldskool
12-15-2009, 05:58 PM
I had a CPU I built back in the day with a Vesa Local Bus Video Card (Hercules 64), a Sound Blaster 16 ISA, and a 486DX4-100 with 24MB ram (that was a lot back then) and the thing ran any DOS game I threw at it very well I might add. (dunno about games like need for speed however). You'll have to learn some config.sys trickery to free up some of your memory. It's best to be 600k+ if I recall. I remember some of the tricks still as well. Some DOS games will refuse to run if the memory is too low. Also, a cheap double speed cdrom should work just fine. Only the oldest of dos games ran too fast for me, but like mentioned earlier, if you get a CPU with a turbo button that will work wonders.

If you get your DOS BOX running good, I recommend a little game called STUNTS!

Soviet Conscript
12-15-2009, 11:42 PM
Sir, there is no such thing as a VESA slot. You are thinking of a VLB slot. (Yes, VLB stands for VESA Local Bus, but it means something different in that case.)

what VESA incompatibilities were you refering to? were there certain games that required a video card used in a VLB slot then? is it more important to get a board with a VLB slot or a PCI slot? i did find a few MB's with both though.


if you get a CPU with a turbo button that will work wonders.



your old pc is exactlly the kinda setup i'm aiming for now. how do you know if a cpu can be used with a turbo button? is it something one can setup with any cpu?

Jorpho
12-16-2009, 02:23 PM
what VESA incompatibilities were you refering to? were there certain games that required a video card used in a VLB slot then?Did you miss the part where I said it "isn't much of an issue"?

Some really old video cards are not compatible with the VESA BIOS Extensions 2.0 standard, and some games may have problems with that. Even in those rare cases there's usually some TSR provided by the manufacturer to remedy the problem, and failing that there's always the famous UniVBE driver.

This issue is entirely independent of whether the card is PCI or VLB or AGP!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VESA_BIOS_Extensions


how do you know if a cpu can be used with a turbo button? is it something one can setup with any cpu?It depends much more on the motherboard than it does on the CPU.

Soviet Conscript
12-29-2009, 09:56 AM
daggerfall requires pentium powa!

my box for tha game says 486DX2/50 MHz


Yes, I'm sure you'll be able to get them running on an older machine just perfectly and without any effort at all! :roll:



acually after getting this machine setup i am finding it easier and more reliable then dosbox and requireing less effort.

the initial learning curve on setting everything up and getting the drivers (mouse, cd drive, sound card) is a little bit of work i didn't find it any more taxing then learning how to configure the dosbox emulator.

so far every game i couldn't get working at all or not correctly work perfect on this dos computer.

stonekeep gave me problems for years trying to run it under the various windows os's and through dosbox but i was able to get it running smooth first time in dos. menzoberranzan i never got running before but now it plays like a dream

i did run into the dreaded memory issues i heard so much about when i tried to get elder scrolls arena to run (anouther game that took some effort to run under dosbox and even then the sound/speed was off even after tweaking the cpu cycles) but even for someone like me who virtually had no experence with DOS i was able to use memmanager a quick refrence to the internet and i had the memory optimized and the game running in no time.

i havn't tried anything really old so i can't say how those games would function and i do intend to piece together a 486 pc eventually but so far i have to say that even at 210mhz later dos games seem to run great on this setup and dispit the initial setup hassels i'm haveing a easier time and getting better performance overall then useing dosbox.

Soviet Conscript
01-07-2010, 04:10 PM
i didn't want to start a new topic on this so i'll continue it here

recently got 2 items for starting my 486 based PC

got this MB http://www.lejabeach.com/Biostar/MB-14Series/MB-1425AEA-V.htm
its the MB-1433AEA-V with a 33mhz intel 486DX

since this MB also supports a turbo button feature i also got a case with a turbo button.

what i didn't realise is these old MB come with absolutly nothing. you get the ram slots the keyport port the cpu socket and thats it. so i have a question

there is no floppy/IDE/SCSI/mouse controller on this board. i'm assumeing what i need is one of those ISA multi I/O cards that have the internal ide or scsi connections and the serial port (for a mouse connection since i can find no ISA mouse cards for PS/2) can anyone reccommend one? should i go for an IDE or SCSI controller?

Jorpho
01-07-2010, 08:19 PM
You write as if you have options. I suggest you go with whatever you manage to find and subsequently get working.

Soviet Conscript
01-07-2010, 08:28 PM
You write as if you have options. I suggest you go with whatever you manage to find and subsequently get working.

?

*sigh* i have no idea why your so difficult with me sometimes. don't get me wrong i appriciate all your help....i just can't help the feeling..

i don't have an opinion, i honestly don't know. is scsi better then ids? i have no idea. i looked it up on wiki and i see some + and - to both but i always find the experence of people here more helpful, thats why i ask.

i am pretty sure what i need is one of those multi I/O cards but i'm not completely sure so before i throw down money on one i just though i would ask if thats what i need or if anyone had a suggestion on one that works very well or something i havn't thought of.

BTW thank you for the lead on the TW2K add on. really all i need to confirm now was if it had a stand alone release with its own packageing

Flack
01-07-2010, 08:46 PM
SCSI was always faster than IDE, but it comes with its own issues (drivers, for one). I will look out in my garage and see if I still have some old IDE ISA cards. At one time I had dozens of them but I think I tossed most of them. The ones I have had IDE, floppy, parallel and serial connections on them.

Soviet Conscript
01-07-2010, 09:14 PM
SCSI was always faster than IDE, but it comes with its own issues (drivers, for one). I will look out in my garage and see if I still have some old IDE ISA cards. At one time I had dozens of them but I think I tossed most of them. The ones I have had IDE, floppy, parallel and serial connections on them.

thanks flack, LMK if you find anything. acually this is a shot in the dark but if you have an AT PSU (with a switch, i think they all have switches) and a 3.5 inch internal floppy drive with a white face i'll buy them off you.

has anyone ever seen a ISA PS/2 mouse card or am i stuck with getting a serial mouse? its no biggy just curiouse.

Arkhan
01-07-2010, 09:19 PM
i didn't want to start a new topic on this so i'll continue it here

recently got 2 items for starting my 486 based PC

got this MB http://www.lejabeach.com/Biostar/MB-14Series/MB-1425AEA-V.htm
its the MB-1433AEA-V with a 33mhz intel 486DX

since this MB also supports a turbo button feature i also got a case with a turbo button.

what i didn't realise is these old MB come with absolutly nothing. you get the ram slots the keyport port the cpu socket and thats it. so i have a question

there is no floppy/IDE/SCSI/mouse controller on this board. i'm assumeing what i need is one of those ISA multi I/O cards that have the internal ide or scsi connections and the serial port (for a mouse connection since i can find no ISA mouse cards for PS/2) can anyone reccommend one? should i go for an IDE or SCSI controller?


I have a 33mhz 486 motherboard sitting in a box here with RAM in it... >_>. Forgot I had it (was using it for something semi idiotic)

I dont really need it and dont have the rest of the computer anymore. moved all the cards/controllers elsewhere....

but yes, you essentially do not get jack-shit when you buy a mobo. Really sucks.

Jorpho
01-07-2010, 09:36 PM
i don't have an opinion, i honestly don't know. is scsi better then ids? i have no idea. i looked it up on wiki and i see some + and - to both but i always find the experence of people here more helpful, thats why i ask.Well, what if it is better? These are ancient components you're talking about. It's not like you can just walk down to your local hardware store and make your selection. And even if it is better, there's no guarantee that whatever card you will find will work with this particular motherboard you've got, assuming you can track down the documentation you need to get it to work at all. And even then there might be some wacky compatibility problem with the software you might want to run.

Hence my statement: stick with whatever you can find that you can get working. If there is something specific in mind that you want to do that requires specific hardware, then that will influence your decision. If there is nothing specific you want to do, then pretty much anything will do. If you end up with something that doesn't work, then you'll learn something and have some spare parts that you can throw in a box.


and a 3.2 inch internal floppy driveYou will have much better luck looking for 3.5 inch internal floppy drives.


has anyone ever seen a ISA PS/2 mouse card or am i stuck with getting a serial mouse? its no biggy just curiouse.There's probably a card like that out there somewhere, but I never managed to find one. I had a hard enough time just trying to find a PS/2 connector that I could plug into a motherboard.

Don't forget that not all PS/2 mice can be used with a PS/2 to serial adapter. (And no, there's no way you can tell just from looking at the mouse whether you can use it with an adapter, unless the manufacturer actually wrote that information on the plastic somehow.)

esquire
02-23-2010, 11:55 PM
I likewise disagree that a 486 is absolutely the way to go. The ideal would actually be a fast 486 or Pentium with a turbo button, but you should easily be able to use a slowdown program (or BIOS trickery) to run programs for which a 200 MHz Pentium is too fast. It is good to have that speed available to you when you need it.

My latest project is a Gateway Pentium 120 my brother gave me. I noticed the Technical Reference Manual (yes, he kept all the manuals, cds and driver disks!) indicates that the CMOS Setup has a "Boot Speed" field which controls the system speed, with 2 selections, Turbo and Deturbo. Is this similar in functionality to the Turbo Button, but done internally in the CMOS? If that is the case, I would simply leave it at "Deturbo" all the time as this system is strictly for DOS and some Win 3.11 games. No Windows 95/98. I have a seperate setup for that.

There is not Turbo Button on the case, and the mobo has a front panel i/o connector for a Turbo Light, but no Turbo Switch, only Reset. I assume the Turbo Light just lets me know whether its running at Turbo or Deturbo in the CMOS settings.

Also, there is a System Cache field which controls the CPU's cache, which is set to Enabled, but can be set to Disabled. Should I try that too, or just leave it alone?

I guess I could drop a 75mhz in there instead, but I think that may be still too fast.

Soviet Conscript
02-24-2010, 02:21 AM
My latest project is a Gateway Pentium 120 my brother gave me. I noticed the Technical Reference Manual (yes, he kept all the manuals, cds and driver disks!) indicates that the CMOS Setup has a "Boot Speed" field which controls the system speed, with 2 selections, Turbo and Deturbo. Is this similar in functionality to the Turbo Button, but done internally in the CMOS? If that is the case, I would simply leave it at "Deturbo" all the time as this system is strictly for DOS and some Win 3.11 games. No Windows 95/98. I have a seperate setup for that.

There is not Turbo Button on the case, and the mobo has a front panel i/o connector for a Turbo Light, but no Turbo Switch, only Reset. I assume the Turbo Light just lets me know whether its running at Turbo or Deturbo in the CMOS settings.

Also, there is a System Cache field which controls the CPU's cache, which is set to Enabled, but can be set to Disabled. Should I try that too, or just leave it alone?

I guess I could drop a 75mhz in there instead, but I think that may be still too fast.

i've never seen that before but i would assume the same thing about the light and turbo setting. odd thing is, didn't pressing the turbo button acually slow down the cpu? would "deturboing" be the regular speed setting then?

my 486 that i have now has a turbo button and the MB supports a turbo button, i have it all wired up but for some reason it just will not work. oh well, its a 33mhz anyways so i suppose that plenty slow and now that i got a 8mhtz ibm clone last weekend i can always use that for the super early stuff.

Jorpho
02-24-2010, 08:34 AM
Apparently some computers use a particular keyboard command instead of a Turbo button.

As it happens, the page where I read about that, http://www.oldskool.org/guides/oldonnew/friendlyboxes , suggests that the Gateway Pentium 120 BIOS Turbo option is indeed much like the Turbo button. However, I really doubt you're going to be wanting to run at 8 MHz all the time!

phreakindee
02-26-2010, 11:09 PM
Certain Tandy 1000 models did this, with Tandy DOS. You typed in MODE SLOW (for half speed, 4Mhz) and MODE FAST (for normal speed, 8Mhz)