"Outgrowing" the JRPG

[NayusDante]

Ever since I rented Final Fantasy and spent hours fighting imps to level up before taking on Garland, I've loved the JRPG format. FF6 and Chrono Trigger really marked the high point for me, having that great story and gameplay balance. In a time where game stories were comic-book morality tales where the hero beats the bad guy, JRPGs were (comparatively) complex character stories.

It came to my attention about a year ago that I haven't actually finished a JRPG for quite some time, and I've started to realize why. I've outgrown the JRPG.

Let me explain this a bit... I still love the format, and I'm poised to tackle a huge JRPG backlog. Even if I feel like I've outgrown the story elements, the gameplay is more appealing to me now than ever. What bothers me is that these stories seem so adamantly targeted to the younger teenage mindset. Chrono Trigger isn't the literary masterpiece I thought it was when I was eight. I just finished Final Fantasy X, and I haven't thought any of the characters were "cool" since I was fourteen. I was REALLY looking forward to Blue Dragon, but honestly, I put it down after about an hour.

That said, I have two questions to ask:


Do you feel like you've "outgrown" a genre? What was it, and what have you "moved on" to?
What are some recommendations for more "mature" JRPGs? (not necessarily violent or inappropriate, just more age-relevant)

[Dangerboy]

The problem with JRPGS isn't that I've outgrown them, it's that they've refused to grow up. In fact, Square has seemed dead on to run their own legacy into the ground. Final Fantasy started dropping off the earth with 7, and the rest of their library is uninspired. It's the same thing.

The problem is that each year the JRPG gets more and more linear. Compare the straight line and lack of exploration that's FFX, and up, and then compare it to say, FF6. No airship flying, no real randomly walking into over-powered enemies (thus giving you fuel to grind), the constant loss of control over an actual party, etc.

Now look at the Western RPGs - Fallout 3, Oblivion, Mass Effect - they all contain that old school feel, but in full 3D. I would purposely run in random directions in Fallout 3 just to see what killer peeps were hiding. I spent large sections of time in Mass Effect trying to figure out my favorite Weapon Attachments (Fire + Poison? Yes Please), and all three had amazing story lines.

Having to go back and play a lot of the classic RPGs on PlayStation for game-rave.com, it's becoming obvious that they aren't aging well.

Japan needs to just take a step back from the safe and sure, and try something actually new.

[Manhattan Sports Club]

The best thing to do is to take the storylines with a grain of salt. I understand what you mean when you say that they don't seem as powerful when you're older. There was a member of the Sega16 forums who commented that alot of RPG stories are mediocre when compared to real films and novels -- they're just more interactive and involving, and often times that is true, though Xenogears' storyline is said to have a considerably more 'serious' tone to it than most FF games usually do.

But back to my point, sometimes it is best to approach the story with little expectation and not take it too seriously. Look at it realistically. You can develop your own impression of it with what comes to you as you play, and you can also view it with a childlike sense of playfulness, or even like you would a movie you enjoy that's campy and simple but fun nonetheless, unless the story proves itself to be otherwise after pondering it at the end, which most don't.

[Jorpho]

As I've mentioned before, as I grow older, I begin to wonder just how much like real life JRPGs really are.

Sometimes in a badly-written RPG, as in life, success can only come if you happen to talk to the right random NPC who only shows up at a certain place and a certain time and will only talk to you if you happen to be wearing the right bauble from the right superfluous side quest - only there no way of knowing in advance who that NPC is, where he's going to be, or what bauble you need, or which sidequests you should be doing. And if you happen to miss that opportunity, it's gone forever, and you're back to bashing on the same old enemies you've bashed countless times before, and running away from the occasional random encounter with something twenty levels too high for you to even approach without getting completely flattened.

It's eerie.

[TonyTheTiger]

Generally speaking, most video games, not just RPGs (Japanese or otherwise), tend to be "kill the bad guy, save the world, get the girl" stories at heart. Probably because in a video game, where the player actually has to participate, that's the most obvious way to integrate actual combat and the like. The player can't really do a whole lot in a video game version of Pride and Prejudice.

This is all well and good but the problem then is it becomes a race to the bottom. Since the core plot generally remains the same and only the details offer any variety, every RPG then seems to try to compete by jacking "story element X" or "character archetype Y" and just rearranges everything into something not wholly derivative but still standard fare. So the middling RPGs, despite not being bad by any means, don't feel "worth it" since we've seen what they have to offer from the cream of the crop, games that did the same thing just more successfully. So out of 100 games, it doesn't feel all that necessary to touch anything that isn't in the top 10%. The fact that RPGs require a significant time investment only exacerbates the problem.

Personally, I don't have a problem with the stories. That's possibly because I haven't matured past the age of 13 but, ignoring that for a moment, I like the standard comic book stylings. As long as the plot doesn't do anything that insults my intelligence I'm fine with it. Then again, even if it does insult my intelligence I've dealt with it.

If there is something that turns me off to JRPGs it has nothing to do with the stories. It has to do with the unnecessary padding a lot of them have. The infamous fetch quest. "I would take you to see the king but I lost my royal crest in the monster infested cave to the south. Go get it for me." "I would take you across the ocean but my sail was stolen. Go get it for me." 16 and 32 bit RPGs were notorious for this. Same thing with level progression. Did I mention how much I don't like random battles? I never did. I put up with it back in the day because it was just how things were but I never once enjoyed being able to see the next town on screen and knowing that I'll get into at least two fights before I actually made it there.

One of the primary reasons I love Chrono Trigger so much is because it was one of the few games at the time that didn't do this shit. It had something that all RPGs should have. It had respect for the player's time. These 60 hour epics are really 30-40 hour games with a lot of filler. I don't mind if a game is long. Just make sure I feel like I'm accomplishing something. "Go get my royal seal" doesn't advance the story. It doesn't get me any closer to saving the world. All it does is stop me from seeing the king for an hour.

So, yes, I can sympathize but for a different reason. I haven't outgrown any particular genre but I have less patience these days for RPGs that move at a snail's pace. If I can only afford to play for a half hour I want to feel like I actually did something during that half hour. I don't want to spend it in some dungeon that I know is only there to delay my progress and fill out the world map.

[Aussie2B]

For a genre that's so often played for the stories, I find it odd that the vast majority have plots that are predictable and unengaging. When I think of the best stories I've ever encountered in video games, none are RPGs.

Maybe you've not outgrown RPGs but just need to reassess your reasons for playing them. If the gameplay itself is appealing to you, then do what I do and play RPGs for the exploration and battling and say to hell with plot, so if you end up becoming interested in the story, consider it a bonus. Target the games in which the developers put gameplay considerations in the forefront, perhaps even before plot. That's why I love the Star Ocean and Valkyrie Profile series. I enjoy a plain traditional, turn-based RPG now and then, but I don't think I'd like the genre nearly as much if they all played like that.

I gotta admit, though, the focus on children does irritate even me sometimes, when an "old man" is 27 or a 23-year-old woman is an "old hag". Gimme a break. And even with my extensive exposure to RPGs, it's hard for me to come up with many exceptions. I guess, again, Valkyrie Profile isn't a bad choice since almost everyone in the first game is above 20, but even then you got an "old" schoolmarm that's only around 35 I think.

Oh well, it is how it is. My biggest problem with RPGs is that I just don't have enough time for them. I still want to play them as if I was a kid, taking my time and doing every last little thing, but they can drag out for months with that approach since I'll often only play for a couple hours a week if that.

[FantasiaWHT]

Lost Odyssey started out (and had through most of it) a really great, deep, mature story line that I enjoyed. Then for about the last 1/3 of it it totally devolved into complete cliches. But the story sequences (when Kai dreams/remembers things that have happened over the last 1,000 years of his life) are really good. They all focus around the theme of life and death, and really give you an idea what it would be like to be someone who can't die.

[FantasiaWHT]

Valkyrie Profile is also an excellent suggestion

[Arkhan]

Whats funny is the story writers for these games are all obviously >20 years old.

Its a culture difference really. The western RPGs of the 80s/early 90s were all more adult-oriented story wise. Everything was and still is more "mature". Its all serious, its all adults running around yelling and or swearing

Ultima for example has always had old dudes running around. Elder Scrolls has never been very kid-oriented..

and then...

Japanese stories have always been what they still are today, which is a bit more sensitive/dramatic/tear jerky/lovey dovey and crap.

Im 21 and still watch sailor moon. Suffice to say, kiddy teenager stories in RPGs are perfectly good in my book.

screw growing up. :)

[Raedon]

That said, I have two questions to ask:
Do you feel like you've "outgrown" a genre? What was it, and what have you "moved on" to?
What are some recommendations for more "mature" JRPGs? (not necessarily violent or inappropriate, just more age-relevant)

1) No ... Every game style I've grown a fondness for I've kept it. I'm 36 years old and I'll still play games like Dig Dug like I did back in the day. Platform games? love them. JRPG? D&D? Action RPG? MMORPG? There are games I will not play because of the quality or battle system but the genre itself doesn't fall out of favor.

Gels - they are cute, colored things. They might even be a bit childish. But they are the ENEMY! How do I know this? Because they are covered in slime ... and that's just gross.

2) When I think mature RPG I just keep coming back to the MMORPG and the hardcore gamer. Being good at a class in a game like Everquest is not easy. In WoW you can solo to 80 but that does NOT make you a great rogue, warrior, priest, or whatever. Gamers notice if you are a great RPG gamer inside an MMO world. Maybe this is the type of RPG experience you crave? If not then mature could just mean giant floppy titties, leather goddesses, and fart jokes wrapped up with EXP and ATK points. IDK where to point you for THAT kind of silliness.

[Press_Start]

The main driving force in JRPG are stories and one painful aspect popping up from the latest crop is developers are spending less and less on telling an epic tale. Lunar Knights, Super Robot Taisen OG Saga: Endless Frontier, and Crimson Gem Saga are good games with solid mechanics but each has a story that feels too short or incomplete. I believe the reason the older RPGs are better was the great attention to character development and story progression as a whole. Sorta fleshing out their personalities, giving them depth. Suikoden 1 and 2 are the perfect example of what I'm talking about.

[hbkprm]

ill never outgrow the jrpg ever!

[blue lander]

I noticed the same thing. I just can't buy the "12 year old has to save the world from evil" schtick anymore. I still enjoy the gameplay, though.

[NayusDante]

Lost Odyssey might be what I'm looking for, and it's definitely on my Christmas list. Where do the other current SE-related RPGs stand (Last Remnant, Infinite Undiscovery...)? I haven't really considered the other developers much, but Eternal Sonata, Star Ocean, and the like strike me as more of the same (would love to be wrong, though).

Here's the stack on my desk:
-Xenogears
-Xenosaga Ep1
-Final Fantasy IX (I got to the end, need to replay though)
-Rogue Galaxy
-Final Fantasy XII
-Dragon Quest VIII
-.hack//INFECTION

Given that I just stepped off of FFX, which of these would be the most satisfying to move onto next, given what I've said?

[hbkprm]

blue dragon is a must

[TonyTheTiger]

I'd recommend FFXII. The game is more about experiencing the world itself rather than a complex plot. The actual story is pretty simple. No twists, no romance. I found it a breath of fresh air.

[Ricochet]

Maybe it's the American in me, but to me "story" is a couple pegs down the list of what I look for in an RPG. I will agree that the Japanese generally make better RPGs than us, in terms of accessibility and aesthetic, but in the end what I love about the genre is the mechanics of the gameplay itself, and less about the increasingly cartoonish characters that've made their way into the genre.

There's something to be said about the recent re-surgence of dungeon crawlers that get back to their Wizardry roots. I don't own any modern consoles, so I haven't been able to try out the likes of Etryian Odyssey, but I have been having a grand old time slugging away at Shining In The Darkness and it's given me something of an epiphany about that wonderful balance of minimalism and gameplay.

[Soviet Conscript]

I noticed the same thing. I just can't buy the "12 year old has to save the world from evil" schtick anymore. I still enjoy the gameplay, though.

same here. it seems mearly cosmetic but its just grown tiresome.

as ark said, when you look at alot of western rpg's your usually playing an older individual at least in thier 20's as opposed to jrpgs where everyone is at thier oldest a teen. being 28 myself i just connect better with the older characters and plot elements.

also tend to get tired of the same "evil empire and religion is bad" theme. not that you don't see this everywhere.

[exit]

The Shin Megami Tensei games are generally darker, more mature with deep stories when compared to other RPGs. I gave up on the JRPG years ago and the Shin Megami Tensei series are really the only RPGs I can play anymore that can actually hold my attention.

[blue lander]

same here. it seems mearly cosmetic but its just grown tiresome.

as ark said, when you look at alot of western rpg's your usually playing an older individual at least in thier 20's as opposed to jrpgs where everyone is at thier oldest a teen. being 28 myself i just connect better with the older characters and plot elements.

also tend to get tired of the same "evil empire and religion is bad" theme. not that you don't see this everywhere.

Yeah, it doesn't seem like it'd be a big deal, but every time I pop in a JRPG and it starts with some little kid's village being attacked by an evil empire/church/aliens, I just sigh. And it's not just that the plot is about a 12 year, it's written for a 12 year old audience too. There's nothing wrong with that, it's just hard for me to relate to it anymore.

One of these days I'm going to go back and replay some of my favorite JRPGs like Final Fantasy VI and Grandia II to see if they still appeal to me as much as they did back then.

[Cryomancer]

I find that i dislike a whole lot of the genre, but I think it's unfair to blame the genre as a whole. The real problem is that only "sure thing" titles are localized into a language I can read. Everything has to be as close to Final Fantasy as possible or it stays in Japan.

There are tons of funny RPGs, modern day RPGs, horror RPGs, etc. 90% of what we get is generic fantasy (and if I WANT that, I will play Dragon Quest, because it always does it best!), with characters and settings that are just so over-designed that it just all looks like noise.

Thankfully we are pretty solidly getting Megaten games now. Too bad it took us a couple dozen before that started 8/ Even if they have standard fantasy creatures, it's normally presented in an interesting setting, and does interesting things with them (ie contact instead of fighting, overcoming boss creatures to trigger personal growth in characters, so on). Monsters have invaded the school! Grab a a mop and a stolen gun and kick their asses (or dance and make them laugh, whichever).

Current-gen RPGs I have enjoyed to some degree:

Blue Dragon is alright. It's a tad generic, but at least the save the world story has personal vendettas involved for the characters for the most part.

Lost Odyssey is a bit better overall, I don't care much for it's browngrey overdesigned environments very much but the storyline at least attemps creativity, and again, personal reasons for stopping the final boss instead of just "because you were told to do so". Also this is a game where you can become very damn powerful and it's pretty fun to be absorbing damage instead of taking it from most enemies.

Adventures to Go for the PSP is pretty fun, it's terribly generic in many ways, but the dialog is pretty funny (immature, probably not present in the original version, but funny) and the entire setup of the adventuring concept is pretty well a giant parody.

Haven't got too far into Operation Darkness, it's pretty slow, but it's one of those games i thought we'd never get in a million years so I'm happy that we did and voted with my dollar about it too. WWII tactical RPG with animu girls and zombies and shit, hey why not.

Infinate Undiscovery is pretty much everything I dislike about RPGs put together. I hate nearly every single party member in that game so very much god damn it RPGs why do you keep having kids as party members and bitchy women and complete idiot doormat protagonists? At least he eventually sort of gets better but DAMN I hate those people.

well this was quite a rant I think i'm done now. tl;dr: there are good ones still, just they don't come to america / get advertised anywhere / are Megaten and Dragon Quest.

[BetaWolf47]

You sure it's the fact you've outgrown it, and not any sort of gaming apathy? Sometimes this happens to me, where I can't play a certain game... but it's always just a phase.

[mobiusclimber]

Lost Odyssey might be what I'm looking for, and it's definitely on my Christmas list. Where do the other current SE-related RPGs stand (Last Remnant, Infinite Undiscovery...)? I haven't really considered the other developers much, but Eternal Sonata, Star Ocean, and the like strike me as more of the same (would love to be wrong, though).

Here's the stack on my desk:
-Xenogears
-Xenosaga Ep1
-Final Fantasy IX (I got to the end, need to replay though)
-Rogue Galaxy
-Final Fantasy XII
-Dragon Quest VIII
-.hack//INFECTION

Given that I just stepped off of FFX, which of these would be the most satisfying to move onto next, given what I've said?

Eternal Sonata would have been the greatest JRPG on the 360 if it wasn't so darn linear. The story is a little cliche, but they find an interesting way to tell it. It's also one of the few 360 games that I've played for more than a week without quitting in total disgust and boredom.

I only played a bit of Infinite Undiscovery but I couldn't get the hang of the battle engine (you control two characters in tandem) and the story doesn't start off promising at all.

Xenogears, I hated it. Mostly it just doesn't feel playtested at all. The storyline is almost incomprehensible if you don't play the entire game in one sitting. There are certain design ideas that are just so mind-blowing stupid that they pretty much break the game (like having platforming elements in an RPG where you can get into random battles in mid-jump).

Xenosaga 1 is an anime disguising itself as a game. Don't be fooled. You'll spend more time w/ the controller resting on your lap than you will w/ it in your hands.

Dragon Quest 8 is a game that I really enjoyed, and it doesn't star a bunch of teenagers either. There is some real emotion to the characters and how they interact. I'd suggest this one if you have to choose from that pile.

Personally, I think JRPGs have been going downhill since the PS2 era, tho even there there was some great games (Shadow Hearts, for instance), but part of my problem is that developers got so into making 3D landscapes that they decided they just couldn't figure out a good way to connect all the forests and towns and dungeons so they made the overhead map into just points that you click on. I think this actually started on the PS1 but got a lot more prevalent on the PS2. It really destroys the feelings of wanderlust that older games engendered.

[Jehusephat]

I've recently discovered that I can't play JRPGs anymore, either. When I was much youger, I'd often load up The Bard's Tale on my Apple IIc and attempt to play it, but at that age I never had the patience to actually succeed at it. It seemed more like work to draw maps and manage my characters than anything else. Now that I'm older, nothing seems more exciting to me than a dungeon crawler. Oddly enough, dungeon crawlers such as Wizardry are now almost exclusively designed by Japanese developers, so in order to find RPGs I want to play I'm still looking through a catalog of Japanese games. I played through The Dark Spire on my DS a while ago and absolutely loved it, and I'm currently making my way through Etrian Odyssey II. The DS has been a great platform for me lately. I just read today that Etrian Odyssey III had been announced in Famitsu, and I'm already eagerly anticipating Shin Megami Tensei: Strange Journey. Because no one else seems to be developing and/or publishing first-person dungeon crawlers in America these days, I've become a huge fan of Atlus for their apparent devotion to the genre.

Also, Nethack has always been a good standby for when I can't find a decent RPG to play. Maybe it doesn't have any kind of story to speak of, but in terms of gameplay it has quite a bit of depth.

When it comes to platformers or action games, I don't think I've outgrown them. I think they've outgrown me. I love playing through Megaman 2, a game I can beat in an hour or so, but I hate all of the modern games with achievements, items you can overlook, secrets, and endings which are only viewable after completing every "optional" challenge included in the game. They aren't really optional challenges if you have this horrible feeling you haven't really beaten the game if you don't complete them. I usually try to complete the extra challenges on my first playthrough, get frustrated with them 2/3 of the way through, and give up in order to play a different game that doesn't ask so much of me. I shouldn't feel the need to access a walkthrough every time I play a game, ESPECIALLY a platformer or an action game. If I'm playing a game like that, it's specifically because I'm tired of all of the complicated things I have to deal with in real life, and I just want to do something simple like jump on monsters or shoot robots. I usually only have an hour or two to play games anymore, and I want a complete experience in those few hours I have. Movies only last two hours, and a lot of them are awesome and can be re-watched dozens of times. Why can't video games be the same way anymore? When I see a label that says "over 50 hours of gameplay!" on a game that isn't an RPG these days, usually that's a sign that I'm never going to have any fun playing it. They might as well put a label on the game that says "this game is horribly tedious!"

[Jorpho]

I've recently discovered that I can't play JRPGs anymore, either. When I was much youger, I'd often load up The Bard's Tale on my Apple IIc and attempt to play it, but at that age I never had the patience to actually succeed at it. It seemed more like work to draw maps and manage my characters than anything else. Now that I'm older, nothing seems more exciting to me than a dungeon crawler. Oddly enough, dungeon crawlers such as Wizardry are now almost exclusively designed by Japanese developers, so in order to find RPGs I want to play I'm still looking through a catalog of Japanese games. I played through The Dark Spire on my DS a while ago and absolutely loved it, and I'm currently making my way through Etrian Odyssey II. The DS has been a great platform for me lately. I just read today that Etrian Odyssey III had been announced in Famitsu, and I'm already eagerly anticipating Shin Megami Tensei: Strange Journey. Because no one else seems to be developing and/or publishing first-person dungeon crawlers in America these days, I've become a huge fan of Atlus for their apparent devotion to the genre.Tried Devil Whiskey yet?

[heybtbm]

Here's the stack on my desk:
-Rogue Galaxy

FYI: Rogue Galaxy is probably the most juvenile JRPG I've played in years. Exhibit A:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhJfg9IxpI8

(vomit)

[NayusDante]

FYI: Rogue Galaxy is probably the most juvenile JRPG I've played in years. Exhibit A:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhJfg9IxpI8

(vomit)

O_O

I might have to save that one to do on my Livestream when I get some friends to commentate. This could be funny. I honestly thought it might be GOOD, but wow... that's the complete opposite of what I expected...

[heybtbm]

O_O

I might have to save that one to do on my Livestream when I get some friends to commentate. This could be funny. I honestly thought it might be GOOD, but wow... that's the complete opposite of what I expected...

I expected better from Level 5 since their previous game (DQVIII) was a masterpiece. Rogue Galaxy has excellent music and graphics, a so-so battle system, and chalkboard screeching dialog/plot. Play at your own risk.

[Ed Oscuro]

The "old fashioned" Western RPG has grown on me a little, but there's nothing that says JRPGs have to be dumb or easy. Vagrant Saga does have a maze map, but beyond that it's very involving - almost more than it has business being.

[kupomogli]

Here's the stack on my desk:
-Xenogears
-Xenosaga Ep1
-Final Fantasy IX (I got to the end, need to replay though)
-Rogue Galaxy
-Final Fantasy XII
-Dragon Quest VIII
-.hack//INFECTION

Given that I just stepped off of FFX, which of these would be the most satisfying to move onto next, given what I've said?

Coming from FF10 I'd say any game you've listed seems like a good choice. FF10 is nothing more than switch characters then attack and repeat an endless amount of times. Every area is point a to point b. Terrible game. Blitzball is good though, one redeeming quality so keep your save file and do nothing but play Blitzball next time you play the game.

You already know what you're getting with FF9. A terrible storyline with gameplay that pretty much makes up for it.

Anyways, Xenosaga is the one with the best story of the bunch. Like mobiusclimber stated, you'll be watching storyline most of the time. Don't let this seem like a bad thing though. Xenosaga has one of the best storylines to an RPG. The level design on the game is fairly simple and has a lot of secrets and stuff. The battle system is the killer of the game though. The game has 90% storyline 10% everything else, then once you get to the last dungeon you'll be in battle the majority of the time as it's the longest dungeon in the game. It wouldn't matter if the game has a good battle system, but it doesn't, the battle system is one of the worst out there.

Xenogears has a great storyline. Platforming RPG and it does a great job at the battle system, great level design, amazing storyline, and also a few sidequests to complete on the second disc. The only problem with this game is that the second disc has three parts that are nearly an hour of nothing more than text and in game visuals where you have little control over. Even during that portion the storyline is still good, you'll just need to be prepared for almost nothing but story.

The gameplay to Xenogears is sort of Legend of Legaia lite. It's gameplay has a similar type of Legend of Legaia but not really in depth. A few good things is that it's more simpler to use and it's still fun, but it's not really anything really that in depth. Gears battles are only slightly different than land battles but really just the bosses in the Gears battles are the major focus of them and those are actually sometimes fairly difficult.

Finally. The music of Xenogears is some of Mitsuda's best work. Atleast I think so.

With Dragon Quest 8, if you're a fan of Dragon Quest you'll love it. The story really seems a bit of a step back from Dragon Warrior 7 and you feel too limited in comparison to pretty much every other game in the series since Dragon Warrior 3 due to the new system which you pick what abilities you want to level up. The graphics however are some of the best on the PS2 and the world is just beautiful. Overall, while I it's only better than Dragon Warrior 2 and definitely better than the original, it's still an amazing game. If you don't choose Xenogears choose this one.

Rogue Galaxy. The storyline isn't too good and you'll either be able to bear it and take it for what it is and find a great game, or you'll think the storyline is unbearable and hate the game. I for one enjoyed the game. It's overall similar to Dark Cloud 2 minus the town creation and better gameplay. I'd say choose this one if you skip choosing Xenogears or Dragon Quest 8.

Finally there is FF12. I probably need to give this game another chance, but so far this is the only game on the list I haven't completed. I actually beat FF10, though believe me, FF12 is much better. The thing that I didn't like with FF12 is that you can either take much more time to choose your attacks by having to open the menu with O, choose what character(or the character it starts on,) choose an ability, then wait for the ATB to fill. Repeat for all your characters. If you need to use a different ability while a character is mid ATB, it resets and you have to wait for it to start all over again.

However, if you don't feel like wasting the time by opening the menu and then moving the option over to just attack which is mostly what you'll be doing on FF12, then you can just use the Gambit system which the characters will automatically choose these actions for you or whatever is best in each situation depending on how you placed it in the menu. This instead turns FF12 to a game that plays itself rather than you playing the game. Either way you're stuck with one extreme or the other, which is why I disliked the game. Also, treasure chests in the game are useless and you'll even be penalized later in the game for opening specific ones which you're given no clue which ones you can't open.

Now. Here is what I actually liked about FF12. The world map is again linked together. However, rather than being just point a to point b, you now have a huge detailed world to explore(as long as you can actually go to the area first.) You are limited by the barriers of each map, but still it's able to be explored. The best part about FF12 that I did like was the Hunter's Guild. Final Fantasy 12 is a game with quests that are done right, which is always a good thing(sitting right behind Arc the Lad 2 and Phantasy Star Online in how fun the quests are to do.) Sidequests are also fairly good in this game.


Xenogears, I hated it. Mostly it just doesn't feel playtested at all. The storyline is almost incomprehensible if you don't play the entire game in one sitting. There are certain design ideas that are just so mind-blowing stupid that they pretty much break the game (like having platforming elements in an RPG where you can get into random battles in mid-jump).

Actually, it's impossible to get into a random battle in mid jump. Once the game is going to start a random battle, it locks out the ability to jump, pause, and go to your menu then you don't get into the random battle for a full two seconds. The game is timed to go into a random battle seconds after it finds one.

If you never played the game on the original Playstation you should try it. You'll hear the disc drive stop spinning then start spinning again, at that point it locks everything down except movement and starts the time limit. PS2 doesn't make any sounds that will notify you that you're about to get into a battle, but once you're unable to jump you'll realize you are about to get into one.

[Arkhan]

I wonder too if anything has to do with the presentation.

Back in the day, no matter how old the characters were, they were all stumpy little nimrods with big heads running around. Kids/Adults looked the same. Maybe the visuals + voice overs of whiney kids *cough* Tidus *cough cough*

is throwing you off.




Actually, it's impossible to get into a random battle in mid jump. Once the game is going to start a random battle, it locks out the ability to jump, pause, and go to your menu then you don't get into the random battle for a full two seconds. The game is timed to go into a random battle seconds after it finds one.

If you never played the game on the original Playstation you should try it. You'll hear the disc drive stop spinning then start spinning again, at that point it locks everything down except movement and starts the time limit. PS2 doesn't make any sounds that will notify you that you're about to get into a battle, but once you're unable to jump you'll realize you are about to get into one.


dang beat me to it.

[Wraith Storm]

What are some recommendations for more "mature" JRPGs? (not necessarily violent or inappropriate, just more age-relevant)

If you haven't played the Shadow Hearts games then I suggest giving them a shot. The first one is an alright game with some really cool ideas but just wasn't executed as well as it could have been, but it was still a dark, foreboding, unique and overall enjoyable RPG. However, it lays the foundation and sets the story for the phenomenal big budget second installment Shadow Hearts: Covenant.

Both these game are fairly cheap and not too tough to find used. Similar to Panzer Dragoon Saga, there aren't too many other RPG's that you can compare them to. They have a fun unique battle system, very good Gothic story, and interesting characters. The games have an identity.

The third Shadow Hearts game is really good as well, but it seemed to take a few steps back from the first two games and fell into the standard JRPG template.

[mobiusclimber]

About Xenogears: I got into random battles mid-jump a LOT of times. So I was supposed to listen to my PS1 to find out if it was going to happen? WTF?! Come on guys, the developers shouldn't have made it possible for those random battles to occur when I was mid-air. It happened all the freakin time to me where I'd have climbed way up and then bam! random battle and once that ended I fell like a stone all the way back down.

I'm sorry, but I have no interest in devoting my time to learning a completely new language, which is why Xenogears and Xenosaga really didn't do anything for me. Xenogears would throw out all this annoying babble that doesn't make any sense until you've played the game for twenty hours, but of course by the time you get to the point where something that was said twenty hours ago makes sense, there's already been ten billion other cutscenes that don't make sense. If this was just a movie, it wouldn't matter. You'd get the info you need to decipher wtf is going on soon enough. But in a video game, it just doesn't work. I get the feeling some people had more time on their hands than I did when I played it because I never really understood much of what those anime cutscenes were getting at. The storyline that you actually PLAY made sense, but they kept switching. You'd play as one character (Fei?) and view everything through his eyes, until an anime started up that seemingly had nothing to do w/ the main plot (and wouldn't find out what it had to do w/ anything until twenty hours later). It was just frustrating.

Xenosaga, on the other hand, wasn't as bad in that most of it made sense almost immediately, but there'd be all these terms that you had to look up in your in-game dictionary to understand what they were getting yet. YES YOU HAD AN IN-GAME DICTIONARY. So if you like reading encyclopedia entries on everything while watching a movie and barely playing a game, you might like Xenosaga. Unfortunately, the gameplay was awful. Not only was the battle engine terrible, but what passed for gameplay at times was just "walk from one end of the ship to the other." So you have this long ass movie to watch, then you'd get control of your character and you'd literally walk from one end of the ship to the other. What was at the other end of the ship? A boss battle? A treasure chest? Please God the end of the game? Nope, just MORE movies! The game actually had a movie that was so long they gave you the option of saving in the middle of it.

So that my post doesn't end up being nothing but me bitching about a couple of RPGs, here's a list of some that I absolutely love and that you may or may not have played:

Koudelka, Shadow Hearts, Shadow Hearts: Covenant - I still haven't played "From A New World" or whatever it's called. Koudelka is for the PS1 and is only tengentially related to the other two games. It's also the most broken. I liked it for its atmosphere and storyline, but the gameplay really wears thin. Weapons break in the game, the battles are laid out like a cross between strategy and regular turn-based combat, so they take forever and happen way too frequently. Shadow Hearts is my favorite of the three. Covenant does have improved gameplay, but it's a comedy whereas the first game was more of a horror title. A cheesy horror title, but that's what made it awesome. Gameplay is excellent in both games, but Covenant just refines it.

Tales of Symphonia - Yeah the storyline is seriously cliche in parts, it's more how they tell it and what they do to change it up and make it different that sets it apart. That, and the battle system is just amazingly fun.

Dragon Warrior VII - Parts of this game get seriously dark. I love the chances Enix took in this game too, particularly the beginning of the game. Its the last game I really felt like maxing out my characters in.

Some other games I love that are JRPGs without being tradition JRPGs: Vagrant Story, Parasite Eve, and the Wild Arms series.

I'm also wondering if you aren't maybe just getting burnt out on newer (PS1 & up) JRPGs. Maybe try taking a break and play some old school stuff. Dig up games you haven't played yet. There's gotta be some old school JRPGs you haven't played. Here's some quick recs:

For NES: Crystalis, Faria, Magic of Schehezerade, Destiny of an Emperor, or maybe some fan-translated Japanese-only releases.
For SNES: Shadowrun, EVO, Inindo.
For Genesis: Only one you might not have played would be Beyond Oasis, your only other choices are the Phantasy Stars, the Shining games (including Shining in the Darkness, which is awesome) and Shadowrun and a few others developed by US companies (Warriors of the Eternal Sun, Faerie Tale Adventure, etc). Can't think of any good JRPGs that aren't obvious.

I guess what I'm getting at is that there ARE a lot of different JRPGs out there. Some games do tend to play the same cards that have always been in that deck, so it's just a matter of figuring out what kind of game it is.

[Emuaust]

For me, I always thought I was outgrowing RPG's, as while the 16 bit and 32 bit era's of gaming where current I played more JRPG's then any other genre. Then after FFX everything went dowwnhill, I just cant seem to care for them anymore. To be honest though FFX isnt an RPG, its a "Let us hold your hand and walk you through a story" action adventure.

I keep on purchasing RPG's and have all the ps2 RPG's I could ever want along with everything from this gen, but have yet to find anything that has enticed me to play through to completion. Then mai reason is the story to action ratio, take something like Wild Arms, I loved the story so much that anything gameplay wise that seemed a chore was overshadowed by it, then take LO on the 360 and while the gameplay might be good I am completly bored by the narrative so I notice the bordem more.

Maybe its me, maybe its a genre running out of orginality due to the ever increasing development costs.

[Richter Belmount]

My personal suggestion try the new horizons series on the super nintendo. Its literally a pirate simulation rpg and its pretty complicated , plus the story is rather boring for a younger audience but I can imagine older people getting into it.

[chrisbid]

i think this has been touched on a little, but with the current state of video games, the more in depth the story is in a given game, the gameplay suffers. on the other side, in an MMO, the gameplay and exploration are phenomenal, but the story is minimal.

it is very difficult to balance the two

[TRM]

FYI: Rogue Galaxy is probably the most juvenile JRPG I've played in years. Exhibit A:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhJfg9IxpI8

(vomit)

I found that to be really amusing, yet would not want to be caught dead actually playing the game. I can only imagine how it gets later on

[Nature Boy]

I thinking saying I've "outgrown" something sounds too... snobbish to me. I prefer to simply say that my tastes have changed. Just like they've changed for a lot of things over time (music, movies...)

[Jehusephat]

I just picked up Valkyrie Profile 2 at a pawn shop, and I'm actually finding it somewhat enjoyable. The character design/story could have used some work, but in terms of gameplay it's very much unlike other RPGs I've played. It has a battle system that's very fluid and action-oriented, but I still feel like I'm in control of the game, unlike in FFXII. I think I may have to give this one a shot. Not that it's really a classic game or anything...

[outsider]

While I haven't outgrown the JRPG, I have definitely moved on from Final Fantasy to games in the Shin Megami Tensei series. FF was by far my favorite RPG franchise though FFVIII. I didn't care for X or X-2 and was unimpressed by IX. I enjoyed XII for the gameplay, which was fantastic, but couldn't get into the story. If not for the battle system I probably would have avoided it.

SMT: Nocturne was my first game in the SMT series and it blew me away. The story was more mature and I loved the gameplay, art and music. I've since played through Persona 1-4,DDS 1+2 and the English translations of SMT and SMTII on the SNES. I might give FFXIII a try at some point, but unless it's a masterpiece I don't see myself going back.

[Arcade_Ness]

I haven't grown out of playing JRPGs and still love them as I did years ago. Though I've steered away from most of the generic sword/sorcery games that dominate the genre. I like a modern setting for my RPGs, so I've found the Megaten series a godsend. I'd recommend Devil Summoner 2. The game takes place in Japan during the '20s, and you're a detective solving cases involving demons. Battles are done in real time a la .Hack and there is plenty of sidequests.

[kainemaxwell]

Xenogears has a great storyline. Platforming RPG and it does a great job at the battle system, great level design, amazing storyline, and also a few sidequests to complete on the second disc. The only problem with this game is that the second disc has three parts that are nearly an hour of nothing more than text and in game visuals where you have little control over. Even during that portion the storyline is still good, you'll just need to be prepared for almost nothing but story.

I so can't stand FF10 most the time, not just for the Sphere System. The Dress thingamaboober system in X-2 made more sense.

Anyhow love Xenogears. The story has so much emotion to it: happiness, confusion, even parts that would bring a tear to your eye. I really should get to finishing it...

[Icarus Moonsight]

FF7 was the beginning of the end for me. I've gotten very selective since then. Either the game has to be a rougelike or dungeon crawler, heavy in exploration (Wizardry/M&M etc), very action/reflex orientated (Diablo, PSO etc), or straight up strategy (Ogre Battle and Dragonforce converted me to Stratism) where movement, formations, micromanagement and such is a major battle system factor over the usual one-side of the screen vs the other, tap A to win, menu battles.

There are some good JRPGs since FF7; Valkyrie Profile, SMT: Nocturne (I find that I don't care for the Persona's much), DQ8 and FF12 looked interesting enough for me to pick up, but I'm very FF shy these days. I'll get to ut eventually though. I could go either way on it still. Depends.

For a genre I used to really be into, the games take to much time to finish and the payoff for all that investment is usually lacking in luster. Makes you feel cheated. Few JRPGs escape this, at least it seems so to me.

[mobiusclimber]

I think Final Fantasy VII and X were worthwhile for the storylines. 9 was good in some parts but horrible in others. 8 was torturous and pretty much made me weary of other FF games. Actually X was also a real mixed bag, but I loved the ending and that sort of made up for it. At least the last boss wasn't a jack-in-the-box villain. X-2 and XII I gave up on. XII I found myself really enjoying the battles in, but eventually the whole game was just monster hunter with a stupid storyline.

The Dragon Quest series really seems to work better for me, tho most of them don't have the greatest storylines. They're more about character development and the way they tell the story than the actual story itself.

[badinsults]

I've been playing the SFC remake of Dragon Quest II for the first time the past two weeks, and I must say I love it. In that game, you are only given vague clues of where places are, and you have to do some real aimless exploration to find the places you need to go. Sure, some might find this to be frustrating, but I love the fact that you have to do some real exploration. It is a wonderful game, but the fan translation has some showstopping bugs, so beware.

The only recent JRPG I have played lately is Star Ocean. It featured crappy Final Fight inspired battles, a major letdown in the storyline (seriously, the apocalypse happened on Earth, and that aspect was thrown to the wayside in favour of some girly-boy elf?) and way too many enemy encounters. I played FFX for about two and a half hours, and there was about 10 minutes of actual gameplay.

I think the major downfall of the JRPG is that after FF7, there was far too much emphasis on flash at the expense of gameplay and exploration. I mean, I was watching my brother play Xenosaga, and there seriously were points where you had to sit through over an hour of cinema. If I wanted to watch a movie, I would buy a movie! Dragon Quest II is still more fun than any console based RPG that I have played that has come out in the past decade, because it brings out the adventurer in me.

[Aussie2B]

Star Ocean and Final Fight? o_O Now that's a comparison I've never encountered before nor expected to.

[badinsults]

Star Ocean and Final Fight? o_O Now that's a comparison I've never encountered before nor expected to.

Are you kidding? When I first started doing the battles, that was the first thing that came to mind. Maybe the first three games in the series are different, but the Xbox 360 game had a fighting system that worked almost exactly the same as an old style beat-em-up.

And I should mention that games like Final Fight bore the hell out of me with their repetitive nature and enemies that take a lot of hits to defeat.

[Aussie2B]

Ah, I assumed you were talking about the original Star Ocean. I wouldn't say any of the others remind me of Final Fight at all and I've never heard anybody bring up Final Fight as a comparison to them, but I haven't played Star Ocean 4 yet and wouldn't know what people would compare it to.

[Gentlegamer]

The last JRPG I had played was FFVII, then right around the time I finished it, I was out of video gaming for several years (almost ten!). When I returned, I played Morrowind on Xbox and was ruined forever for linear RPGs.

[Joshie]

I feel bad for anyone who can't enjoy older RPGs anymore. In the past year, my girlfriend has discovered how much fun older rpgs are so we play them together. We are running though all my old NES, SNES, and PS favs and I still enjoy them all. (PS games are still not as great for me because I seem to not enjoy 3D gameplay).

I don't really outgrow games I like I suppose. I actually have trouble getting into newer games. I have had a ps3 for years and I still don't own a single game for it (but I have the 60 gig so awesome backwards compatibility), and the only thing my 360 gets touched for is Rock Band. There is something about older gameplay that is missing for me now, and I can't let it go.

[TonyTheTiger]

I think it's because there's a level of bullshit a lot of older RPGs had that newer RPGs don't. Most of the bullshit was time consuming and tedious. "Go here for no reason at all and clear out all the monsters." "Spend an hour grinding so you can beat that one boss." "Random battle every five steps or six steps." At 12 and 13 years old we didn't mind. First of all, it was all we knew. That was the standard at the time so we put up with it even if we didn't really enjoy those aspects. I know I personally never liked random battles. Second of all, we had lots more time to kill so those time sinks weren't so frustrating. We can still go back and play older games and enjoy them just fine. But the flaws just seem to be a bit more noticeable.

[Jorpho]

I think it's because there's a level of bullshit a lot of older RPGs had that newer RPGs don't. Most of the bullshit was time consuming and tedious. "Go here for no reason at all and clear out all the monsters." "Spend an hour grinding so you can beat that one boss." "Random battle every five steps or six steps." At 12 and 13 years old we didn't mind. First of all, it was all we knew. That was the standard at the time so we put up with it even if we didn't really enjoy those aspects. I know I personally never liked random battles. Second of all, we had lots more time to kill so those time sinks weren't so frustrating. We can still go back and play older games and enjoy them just fine. But the flaws just seem to be a bit more noticeable.But many of these "features" are just as prominent in your typical MMORPG.

[TheRogue]

I have definitely found myself less satisfied with standard RPG fare these days, however there will often be one game in 10 that I really truely enjoy due to dramatic departures from the norm in either storyline or gameplay. If I could pick one RPG I would recommend to a newcomer to the genre, it would be Grandia II (on the DC of course, playing it on PS2 or PC is disgraceful :P). I know some people love it and some hate it, but I have to say that I more then love it. For one thing the battle mechanics are brilliant, and the storyline... WOW.

*******SPOILER ALERT!!! IF YOU HAVE NOT PLAYED GRANDIA II THEN READ PAST THIS POINT AT YOUR OWN RISK*******

I found it to be satisfying in every way. Even though the characters are young they are not childish. The storyline is very mature if you look a bit beyond the obvious. For instance the main plot is pretty plainly an alegory about corruption in the catholic church. Also the whole concept of the Jungian duality of man portrayed by Elena/Millenia was very deep and thought provoking. The whole idea of the "love-triangle" between Ryudo, Elena, and Millenia was also a huge departure from the usual one-girl-love-of-my-life that is typical in RPG storylines.

[TRM]

Regarding the plot: I always felt that if one took a plot out of a soap opera, that it would make a good rpg plot...I mean, not necessarily a logical plot, yet it would be different and keep the player guessing until the last moment.

[Yukima]

I've found it hard to get into newer RPGs. Mostly because in my mind, they're almost all the same - same settings and story elements, etc. And because I like more of the older 16-bit RPGs better (Chrono Trigger, FF IV and VI, etc).


Regarding the plot: I always felt that if one took a plot out of a soap opera, that it would make a good rpg plot...I mean, not necessarily a logical plot, yet it would be different and keep the player guessing until the last moment.

*shudder* If anyone ever tried to make an RPG out of the Filipino soap operas I've seen, that would be a mistake in so many ways... there's enough screaming and depression and domestic violence in those to make you feel guilty to be alive...

Then again, maybe it WOULD work - instead of the main character being a whiny emo self-destructive person, ALL of them are!! :evil laugh:

[calthaer]

I have always preferred western RPGs, and consider them superior in many ways to JRPGs in terms of exploration and / or plot. I'm really amazed that everyone's mentioning Fallout 3 and Morrowind but not a hint of the Ultima series. Ultima VII may perhaps be a penultimate game in the western RPG genre - full-bodied and immersive exploration (harvest wheat, grind it to flour, bake it into bread, sell the loaves to characters who actually go home and sleep at night and wake up and come to the bakery in the morning, then to work), a good and epic storyline with an appropriately evil villain (Underworld 2 really expanded this; loved that game - it was a Morrowind precursor for sure), memorable characters...it's simply fantastic. There's a reason Richard Garriott was rich enough to take a trip into space. Too bad EA raped the series and U8 / 9 sucked hard.

After something like Ultima VII, I just never felt that any JRPGs topped it. I enjoyed FF7 and found it iconic and a lot of fun, but it just wasn't quite as immersive or fun - and I absolutely hated the fact that most of the best items were hidden in some random nook or cranny in one particular town that would be destroyed (and unavailable) once a certain point in the painfully linear plotline had passed.

I, too, don't bother with these FMV-crammed JRPG extravaganzas that come out these days...dungeon crawlers and / or a game with an expansive RPG-like mechanic (but little in the way of storyline) like Pokemon is enough to satisfy me on the great level / exp mechanics in JRPGs.

Of course, western RPGs haven't told really amazing stories lately, either. With Looking Glass Studios and Origin shuttered, we really only have Bioware (KOTOR was pretty excellent), and they were never really quite as good (Deus Ex owns any Bioware story that's ever come out, I'm sorry)...and now that EA owns Bioware I'm not exactly expecting an uptick in quality...

[NayusDante]

Deus Ex is really my favorite PC game, and it's become my yardstick for measuring other PC games (which is why I didn't love Bioshock).

Western RPGs have always been a bit more mature, but I think that's pretty much understood. Still, I had a lot of moments in Fallout 3 and Oblivion where I thought to myself, "this would be a lot more appealing if I were younger." Bethesda's dialog system borders on absurdity at times, and the voice acting doesn't help. I tried to get into KOTOR, but the D&D system has always felt kinda odd to me. I keep trying to play Baldur's Gate, but I just haven't been able to get into the right mindset to really enjoy it.

I honestly don't mind the overabundant cutscenes. If I wanted to play an action game, I'd pick up a shooter. If the gameplay is at least decent, I have no problem with half-hour cutscenes, as long as they adds to the story quality. I think that western RPGs get tripped up here, because they tend to avoid cutscenes. I feel bewildered when everything is in your own view, never cutting away.

[mobiusclimber]

I've only played a few of the recent Western RPGs and I hate them. Oblivion and the one before it (Morrowind, just remembered the name), Fallout 3... I just can't get into these games at all. I did enjoy the Wizardry ports on NES/SNES and Might & Magic ports (tho haven't spent as much time w/ them yet), but I really need a compelling storyline or actually ANY storyline to get me going. Vague shit like "take this letter to some dude in some far away town" just doesn't cut it for me. I don't like first-person action in my RPGs either, particularly when the game feels more like a shooter than an RPG (Fallout 3, Mass Effect). Besides that, all the shit you can do in these games tends to be overwhelming. After I'm done picking flowers, it just feels weird to wander upon a house in the woods that immediately gets attacked and set on fire. Like they were just waiting for me to show up.

Anyway, I can understand how some people really go for this, but I need more direction and a more compelling storyline to push me forward in a game. I'm all for non-linearity, but it has to be done a certain way for me to enjoy it. Dragon Warrior started out very non-linear yet was also very linear, but certain things if you were clever enough you could do them early, like defeating the dragon. I want to feel like the world is pretty much open if I can just figure out how to explore it, but also feel like I need to go do this and that quickly, not just wander around doing whatever. I'm not sure I've ever played a game that felt like that tho.

[calthaer]

Anyway, I can understand how some people really go for this, but I need more direction and a more compelling storyline to push me forward in a game. I'm all for non-linearity, but it has to be done a certain way for me to enjoy it. Dragon Warrior started out very non-linear yet was also very linear, but certain things if you were clever enough you could do them early, like defeating the dragon. I want to feel like the world is pretty much open if I can just figure out how to explore it, but also feel like I need to go do this and that quickly, not just wander around doing whatever. I'm not sure I've ever played a game that felt like that tho.

I get the distinct impression upon reading this that you should play Ultima VII. I won't give anything away so as to not ruin the story, but it does pretty much hit that balance: after the initial town (you are "trapped" inside until you beat the first quest, which isn't terribly cumbersome and serves to get you used to the interface), you are pretty much free to explore the entire world, but you're given a task to do / figure out - it seems somewhat urgent, and while the gameworld doesn't end if you don't and you can wander, there's an evil coming that you're meant to thwart (and you're introduced to this evil in the opening cutscene).

[mobiusclimber]

I don't really have a computer to play games on, that's pretty much why I don't. LOL The only Ultima games I've tried were console ports and they were/are awful. I'll look into whether I can find this game and if I can find a way to run it or not, tho, since I definitely do want to see what the big deal about Ultima is (I know the ports are poor substitutes for the PC versions).

[Jorpho]

I'll look into whether I can find this game and if I can find a way to run it or notUse Exult (http://exult.sourceforge.net/) and you'll be able to run it on your PSP, your cellphone, your toaster, etc.

[mobiusclimber]

Ooooh thanks for the link! I love emulation on the PSP. :D

[Tallise]

I Find that many of the JRPG games now-a-days are honestly aimed to a much younger set of people than they used to. Zelda for example, if you look how it has evolved it seems to have been family friendly for the most part but recently has been stuffed into a kitty friendly suit, ignoring the rest of the gaming world. Toon Link is the new Link, his adventures becoming an skill-less tale of other cute but somewhat bland characters. Even OOT was made for the whole family, not just the adults, and not just the small children.

I think FF has started on a similar decline, only ignoring the rest of the gaming world and feeding into the hard core fans who don`t care if the game is amazing, if its FF they automatically love it. They haven`t slipped as far into the kids-only genre yet, but im sure they are not far off, as most of their fans seem to be younger teens and pre-teens. One of their other curses (so I have been told) is they draw on stories from their other games some times and if you haven`t been following the series or were looking for something FRESH you may feel SOL. I never got into FF aside form playing FF: X (i think), so I`m not sure if this is true, but it probably is knowing how abused the FF name is.

Adressing Chrono-Trigger, I love that game, I have memories of it from when i was 5, watching my older brother play it, and to this day still can not beat the damn final boss e.e (maybe I just never want it to end lol). It is a very unique amazing game, but it is understandable that you might get tired of it when the market has been spammed with so many games not even trying to live up to classics such as Chrono Trigger, older FF, Secret of Mana, and Old Zelda. Most games now (especially if marketed through Nintendo) Are not made to beat out the rest of the market by means of ultimate game developement and mastery of techniques. Now-a-days Games are made to draw in the masses: They are shorter, generally easier, have generic plots, and are marketed to `regular folk` not gamers, especially not OLDER gamers.

As a 19 year old, female gamer I`m still in that `teen demographic` of cool and pwning yet really enjoy cute-pie`kid`games while clinging to old pixel graphics and single to two button control. However, I have recently found my self drawn into Fall Out 3 as an alternative to my love of older RPG`s. It has an interesting plot and customized main character, it has a long list of tasks and side missions, great graphics (in my opinion) and several things have been added and improved in the past year through online updates (I play x-box, rather than PC, but its the same story for both). Fall Out is a newer game that i find similar to the RPG`s of our past, and the makers really focused on detail and quality, reaching to a more serious crowd rather than the masses of fresh non-gaming G rated families. Faster games, however, such as Call of Duty MW2 and Left 4 Dead have sucked me in. I still play old games though. I have chronotrigger for DS on my x-mas wish list and visit my local game store to buy classics for my nes, snes, intelevision, atari and N64 on a regular basis. I just bought 4 games today, all for my Nes.
I think JRPG has been stretched and mutalated (and older popular series so horribly abused) so much it`s very easy to feel tired of it.
Maybe take a break for a while. Play some games you wouldn`t have concidered before, and in a year or two you can go back to the games you used to love. Keep in mind the suppossed declining quality associated with changing demographics though. New games may not ever make you feel the same as older ones have, and older ones may feels spoiled, when compared the their newer counterparts.

[NayusDante]

Fall Out is a newer game that i find similar to the RPG`s of our past, and the makers really focused on detail and quality, reaching to a more serious crowd rather than the masses of fresh non-gaming G rated families.

Calling Fallout "serious" is a stretch, if you ask me. There's no doubt that the subject matter is intended for older gamers, but to be honest, I think that the appeal is more skewed toward the teen demographic.

At any rate, welcome to the forum.


I've been playing FFXII the past two days. Not really sure what to think of it yet. It's like FFXI, except not as good. The story sounds alright, but it hasn't gotten me to really care about it yet. It's not *completely* fitting the JRPG mold, but it's not completely fresh either.

[Icarus Moonsight]

Never thought of Zelda as an RPG. Adventure all the way.

Can't help myself...

has been stuffed into a kitty friendly suit

http://www.milanoo.com/upen/v/200806/Male-Hello-Kitty-in-Blue-Wedding-Suit-Adult-Mascot-Costume-1443-1.jpg

[Tallise]

Calling Fallout "serious" is a stretch, if you ask me. There's no doubt that the subject matter is intended for older gamers, but to be honest, I think that the appeal is more skewed toward the teen demographic.

At any rate, welcome to the forum.


I've been playing FFXII the past two days. Not really sure what to think of it yet. It's like FFXI, except not as good. The story sounds alright, but it hasn't gotten me to really care about it yet. It's not *completely* fitting the JRPG mold, but it's not completely fresh either.

Well Serious may have been the wrong word, I don`t mean to say Fall Out is Hardcore serious, but it is more so than the new Zelda and FF games for sure...

And thank you for the Welcoming :3

[NayusDante]

Well, I've been playing FFXII for a while, and I'm probably a little more than halfway through it. It's definitely a mixed bag for me. I don't really feel drawn into the story at all, and the characters aren't that interesting. It's overall decent, but not really great. It does feel a little more grown up than FFX, so I'll give it that.

I'm taking a break from FFXII to play Lost Odyssey, which so far, is more what I'm looking for. It's fresh, interesting, and different, but still holds to the JRPG conventions. I just finished disc one, and it's been very enjoyable so far. There's some pretty good humor here, for a JRPG.

[Platinum]

I haven't completed ANY RPG since..... 2004. That was Mario & Luigi for the GBA, and even that pushed my patience.

I was never really big into the genre either, by the time I actually knew what RPGs were, I was playing games like Metroid, Duke Nukem, Banjo Kazooie, Goldeneye.

Now, I hate the genre, period. I can (for sentimental reasons) play Pokemon red/blue/yellow though, sometimes, maybe once in a year. Just because I logged hundreds of hours on it when I was younger.

I'm just sick of the same old cliches, art styles, stories, and gameplay. Every now and then I change preferred genres (right now I am playing games like Mario, Alex Kidd, Metroid). RPGs.......... nowhere on my list of genres to play. I personally don't care about japanese mythology, or whiney little 17 year olds, or highi-pitched 10 year old girls. I don't care. Metroid and Metal Gear are my two favorite series. Both are japanese by origin. But I don't hate them. My hatred for RPGs in general does not stem from hatred of Japanese things, like some people accuse me of.

That's okay, while my friend waits a whole day to level up 3 levels in FFXI, I can finish the new Chronicles of Riddick: Assault On Dark Athena! On one sitting!

[Jisho23]

Honestly, I think the death of the Jrpg is a combination of western RPGs getting better (in the console realm, PC has always been a somewhat exclusive club for WRPGs) and JRPGs compromising too much. We've all seen the maps of FFXIII by now and can plainly see how linear the games have become.

I never liked RPGs because of the random encounters, the stat crunching, etc. For me it was always the exploration aspect. Thats what drove the oldest games in the genre (before there was even a distinction between the two hemispheres). Once you lose any degree of exploration (note: this does not imply sandboxing) then you are effectively shuttling characters too and from places and if you die you just crunch numbers. Wizardry, Dragon Warrior, Chrono Trigger; these are all games DRIVEN by exploration (some more than others obviously).

For some reason, these games have totally lost sight of that.

[Ravenswood]

Maybe it's the American in me, but to me "story" is a couple pegs down the list of what I look for in an RPG.

This.

As long as the dungeon crawling is fun, and the battle system and gameplay can keep me hooked, I don't really care about why my generic blue haired hero has to save the crystals from a metrosexual in a black coat.